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Congress Considers Forcing Travel Registration

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the looking-forward-to-travel-visas-for-interstate-trade dept.

United States 321

macduffman writes "Congress and the Department of Homeland Security are considering several new visa restrictions, including forcing some foreign travelers to register their travel plans online 48 hours in advance. Business advocacy groups are worried about both foreign relations and the economic impact of such legislation, while privacy concerns see this as another possible 'in' for identity thieves. From the article: 'Along with online registration, the updated program would require new and existing member countries to improve data-sharing; more rigorously report lost and stolen passports (not just blank passports); and guarantee they will repatriate nationals if those people are ordered out of the United States. "It's really a 21st-century model," said James Carafano, a Heritage Foundation analyst who specializes in homeland security. "It'll all be done electronically and biometrically. And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."'"

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"It's really a 21st-centry model." (5, Insightful)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526031)

"It's really a 21st-century model," said James Carafano, a Heritage Foundation analyst who specializes in homeland security.
It's really a 21st-century police state.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1)

chris_mahan (256577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526113)

Fascism for the 21st century.

My grandfather was in a Nazi labor camp (came back thankfully).

America is not going in the right direction, and I think the next President had better grow some major cojones and disbands the Department of Father\WHomeland Security. The current president is hopelessly lost.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526237)

I think the next President had better grow some major cojones and disbands the Department of Father\WHomeland Security.

I think you mean the Ministry for State Security (google for what the initials would be in Russian).

Posting AC for the obvious reason.

Umm, RTFA? (-1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526243)

It mentions foreign travelers inbound to the US, not US citizens outbound elsewhere. US Citizens travelling abroad (or internally, or etc) are obviously not affected by this. Also, it's not as if we'd be the first to implement such a plan in either case.

So, err, maybe before you pick up more tomatoes to throw at the administration for this plan (which incidentally is not a member of Congress, as the TFA states as being the branch o' government pushing this change), maybe you folks would actually care to read what it is you're ranting against?

Just a thought...

/P

Re:Umm, RTFA? (5, Insightful)

chris_mahan (256577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526319)

Ah, I forgot, the sub-human foreign travelers. Nice. My Japanese citizen wife and mother of my son will really appreciate your point.

from TFA: Paragraph 2:

The requirement, proposed by the Homeland Security Department...

Pass the tomatoes.

Re:Umm, RTFA? (0, Flamebait)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526649)

* Non-US Citizens have never (as in, "ever") enjoyed the full protection of US law (save for illegal immigrants, but that's a whole other argument, as we're talking only ostensibly here).

BTW: No mention of other nations' citizenry and/or their humanity was made, so appeals to emotion based on a strawman argument doesn't wash. Deal.

* Proposed? Great - so what branch of government is DHS again, and when did they get to create/codify law?

/P

Re:Umm, RTFA? (1)

chris_mahan (256577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526825)

Nice trolling I must admit.

Re:Umm, RTFA? (-1, Flamebait)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526957)

I'm just stating basics. It may seem uncomfortable to some (esp. those who may love to show their ideological credentials), but there it is :)

/P

Re:Umm, RTFA? (4, Informative)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526353)

It mentions foreign travelers inbound to the US, not US citizens outbound elsewhere.
Beware shifting definitions. A foreign traveler can be read two ways: a foreigner that travels here or anyone that travels to foreign places.

Be sure they note when citizens travel to unfriendly places and seek to return. Declaration of someone as an "enemy combatant" is effectively the same as revoking someone's citizenship, even a natural-born citizen.

Yakov Smirnov should update his act: "American Express: Don't Leave Home."

Re:Umm, RTFA? (5, Informative)

grcumb (781340) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526423)

It mentions foreign travelers inbound to the US, not US citizens outbound elsewhere. US Citizens travelling abroad (or internally, or etc) are obviously not affected by this. Also, it's not as if we'd be the first to implement such a plan in either case.

Oh! Foreigners! Well, that's all right, then!

I guess we won't be needing the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org] , then. Silly thing says all humans are created equal. And Article 13, the part about freedom of movement, is clearly a quaint antique, a relic of a bygone era when Americans actually cared about others [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Umm, RTFA? (1)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526745)

Japan requires payment of an exit fee. And they are very watchful over foreigners that overstay their visas.

Australia charges for a visa as well.

Just because the US has been unbelievably lax does not mean it should continue.

Re:Umm, RTFA? (4, Insightful)

Dionysus (12737) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526553)

It mentions foreign travelers inbound to the US, not US citizens outbound elsewhere. US Citizens travelling abroad (or internally, or etc) are obviously not affected by this. Also, it's not as if we'd be the first to implement such a plan in either case.
What makes you think other countries won't retaliate by implementing the same rules for US citizens? And what makes you think the information collected won't be shared by the different intelligence agencies?

Re:Umm, RTFA? (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526691)

What makes you think other countries won't retaliate by implementing the same rules for US citizens?

Some already do. *shrug*

/P

Re:Umm, RTFA? (4, Interesting)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526743)

Something I've always admired about Brazil: they have a policy of reciprocity that makes it just as big a pain in the ass for Americans to go to Brazil as it is for Brazilians to go to America.

Some international academic organizations that I'm involved with, which move their conferences from one country to another, have begun skipping the US and choosing to host their North American conferences in Canada instead. I expect this trend to continue: I'm going to encourage conferences in Brazil.

Re:Umm, RTFA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526603)

Seems to me they read what they're ranting against. from TFA: "The requirement, proposed by the Homeland Security Department..."

Also, you're missing a fundamental concept: that DHS, just like the other 14 departments in the president's cabinet, works in conjunction with the oval office to implement the administration's policies (or in the current case, to foist the administration's ideology on the people) and as such is considered an integral part of tossed-rotten-tomato-worthy administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cabinet [wikipedia.org]

Re:Umm, RTFA? (2, Insightful)

lahvak (69490) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526939)

Also, it's not as if we'd be the first to implement such a plan in either case.

You are right! All those nice communist countries used to have very similar system in place.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1)

taoman1 (1050536) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526259)

What else could we expect from a right-wing think tank [fair.org] .

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (5, Insightful)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526281)

But it's only being applied to foreigners, so it will be ok with enough short sighted fools to get pushed through before there is any real thought or debate on the issue. Then it will be extended to include Americains who are considered "threats". Then the definition of who consistutes a "threat" will be expanded. Then it will include everyone, but likely be automated, via the purchase of your plane tickets being automatically entered into a Homeland Security tracking database.

I wish this all sounded more paranoid than probable.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526459)

Welcome to the 21st century. War is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. Paranoia is Sanity.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526625)

Yes, but fortunately beer and food are still beer and food.

If they try to change that they'll have an instant revolution on their hands.

Well... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526635)

I have just one thing to say:

"Papers, please."

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1)

UdoKeir (239957) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526937)

I don't know why they don't just electronically tag everybody.

Then if they see a bunch of people congregating together without permission from the government, they can round them up and send them away for enhanced interrogation. I mean, if you're trying to hide something, and meeting other people, you're probably a terrorist.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1)

jd (1658) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526325)

Model: Idealistic, simplified representation of something that exists. Usually static and non-functional, hence the phrase "working model" to denote a model that works. As applied to people, usually refers to individuals who are unhealthy/near-death and plasticized for the purpose of persuading the extremely rich to buy something other than what is shown.

I think the word apples extremely well to this piece of legislative insanity. Hell, virtually every civilization that has ever existed has rapidly discovered that freedom of movement by others (especially traders) is paramount for survival, with many passing laws prohibiting their governments from ever impeding such travel. It's good to know that the Department of Homeland Security is merely 5,000 years behind the times. It gives us a means of estimating when they will become civilized themselves.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (4, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526627)

It's really a 21st-century police state.

Yeah, and like most police state tactics, it completely fails to address the actual problem they claim they are solving. Which is ultimately good for them, because the continuation of the problem justifies them taking even more power (that also won't solve the problem).

In case anyone dosen't remember, all of the 9/11 hijackers travelled with valid ID.

So now the hijackers will register their names two days in advance. BFD. They aren't going to use anyone on our known list of terrorists, they aren't going to use anyone who our pointless profiling picks up. They will be completely legal, record-free, and unknown to any law enforcement or intelligence agency. They will walk right through the security checkpoint, grumbling just as loud as the guy behind them about the inconvenience.

This shit is useful for catching Cat Stevens, providing a false sense of security, more power to the police state, and not a damn thing else.

Russia's Old Fashioned (4, Insightful)

slarrg (931336) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526679)

In Russia's old-fashioned system, as an American I have to register my travel in Russia as I travel. But in the USSA they're going to require 48 hours advance notice. What an improvement.

Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (1)

plover (150551) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526949)

Here's the real difference.

"Papiere, bitte" has become "Deine Ausweiskarte ablichten, bitte" (thanks, Google Translate!)

Only this time it'll be spoken in English.

My Prediction (4, Interesting)

SRA8 (859587) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526039)

Just watch, I predict:
TSA: "no sir, we cannot allow you back into the US -- we have no record of you leaving."
You: "but i did register, here is the printout of the confirmation page"
TSA: "sorry sir, its not in the computer."

Other predictions: such predicaments happen more often to Arabs, Muslims, minorities, and members of the ACLU

Re:My Prediction (4, Interesting)

Kabuthunk (972557) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526233)

Without a doubt it'll happen more to any minority. No matter how unbiased the border crossing between for example Canada and the USA is supposed to be, if I (random white guy) am crossing it either alone, or with other random white people... I have never ONCE been stopped. Ever. Should I be travelling with a black and/or chinese friend... not a SINGLE time have we been let through without being stopped.

Now... coincidences can happen... but once you start flipping a coin a hundred times and every single flip is 'heads'... you're going to start to think something's not quite right about that coin.

Re:My Prediction (1)

Snowtide (989191) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526341)

I wouldn't bet against that at all. Look at the current no fly list. Who was the one fderal US politician on it an darred from flying? :)

Re:My Prediction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526549)

Other predictions: such predicaments happen more often to Arabs, Muslims, minorities, and members of the ACLU

It does sound too utopian doesn't it.

Re:My Prediction (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526871)

Other predictions: such predicaments happen more often to Arabs, Muslims, minorities, and members of the ACLU

Bullshit. DHS goes out of it's way to not do profiling. Not just ethnic profiling, but common sense profiling (like an old woman in a walker probably doesn't need a strip search). Israel doesn't have problems with airplane hijackers because their TSA counterparts check based on instinct/gut feelings/profiling rather than every 20th person.

won't compromise your privacy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526073)

"...won't compromise your privacy."

Really? and i suppose the new passports won't, either.

Re:won't compromise your privacy? (2, Insightful)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526181)

"...won't compromise your privacy."

Really? and i suppose the new passports won't, either.
What privacy? Hard to compromise something we no longer have by any meaningful measure, be ye foreign or domestic.

HALT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526079)

Your papers sir! Show me your papers!

captcha: register ?!?!

And it really doesn't compromise your privacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526085)

Famous last words.

An old dupe, (1)

the_kanzure (1100087) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526099)

"When will we grant ourselves the right to travel?" - And it looks like we need it ASAP.

Like Predicting the Sun Rising in the East (5, Insightful)

sehlat (180760) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526129)

Sooner or later, this will be applied to ordinary citizens, as well.

"I'm sorry, sir, but you didn't register your travel plans to go from Oakland to San Francisco."

"But my wife's having a baby and that's the nearest hospital!"

"Then where is the BABY's travel registration."

Re:Like Predicting the Sun Rising in the East (1)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526225)

Heh, that reminds me of the breastfeeding mother who bottled her own milk in advance and was forced by TSA to drink it.

Re:Like Predicting the Sun Rising in the East (3, Informative)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526685)

You realize that people from countries other than the United States generally are ordinary citizens right? Just not of the U.S.

Re:Like Predicting the Sun Rising in the East (1)

sehlat (180760) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526909)

You realize that people from countries other than the United States generally are ordinary citizens right? Just not of the U.S.


True. This proposal may end up passing because, like any other pack animal, humans regard "not us" (i.e. not a member of our pack) as fair game. Then it will end up being applied to U.S. citizens because the "TSA pack" regards citizens as "not us."

ObFloyd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526161)

All in all it's just another brick in the wall.

Godwin (3, Funny)

MadUndergrad (950779) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526183)

Vhere are your papers?

Re:Godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526441)

You mean: Ausweis bitte!

Newspeak and Doublethink (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526207)

> It's really a 21st-century model", said James Carafano, a Heritage Foundation analyst who specializes in homeland security. "It'll all be done electronically and biometrically. And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."'

Spectacular. In the 20th century, of course, that sort of thing was the opposite of "not compromising your privacy", and the sort of thing we used to think of as the domain of the Soviet Union.

But in Newspeak, we have the advantages of doublethink and duckspeak, and it no longer feels as weird. Thus: "20thinkers unbellyfeel Amsoc. 21thinkers bellyfell Amsoc! Carafano doubleplusgood HomeSec doublethinking duckspeaker!"

Speaking of the Soviet Union, from TFA:

> Applicant countries say U.S. officials are living in the past if they are worried about a flood of East Europeans entering - and not leaving.
>
> "Many people in the U.S. seem to believe it is a natural instinct of every Pole, Hungarian or Slovak to want to stay in the U.S.," Reiter said. "This is totally wrong today."

No Newspeak translation available:
"In Soviet Russia, people fleeing from tyranny wanted to stay in America!"

So funny... (4, Interesting)

FatSean (18753) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526415)

Growing up, I graduated highschool in 1992. I was fed a whole bunch of crap about how the 'bad soviets spy on their people' and the 'bad soviets imprison people with no chance of trial' and 'bad soviets take their peoples' rights and tell them it's for security'/

How ironic that those adults who were so frothy about the USSR==bad and USA==good based on those claims, are now supporting the use of those tactics in the USA!

I asked a few of them to explain the contradiction. They said that it's better to be safe than sorry! How funny!

Re:So funny... (4, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526721)

Growing up, I graduated highschool in 1992. I was fed a whole bunch of crap about how the 'bad soviets spy on their people' and the 'bad soviets imprison people with no chance of trial' and 'bad soviets take their peoples' rights and tell them it's for security'/

Exactly. When I was a kid the USSR was bad because of all those things they did, and the USA was great because we didn't do any of those things.

At some point, I'm not sure when, it no longer became about what we did The USA was just magically the best no matter what simply because it's the USA. I think maybe it happened around the same time you started seeing those bumper stickers with the flag and "The Power of Pride". Because apparently if you just believe that your country is super-awesome, it will do great things. Via magic.

How are pride and wishful thinking working out for us in Iraq? Maybe if I just have more pride we'll win...

BTW, someone needs to mod the OP up some more, because that was hilarious.

Re:So funny... (3, Insightful)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526797)

What's important is that the excuses are the same: the USSR had nothing against the hard-working fellow comrade, it was the enemies of socialism that were the problem. And, there really were enemies of socialism, very well-organized, funded and armed ones supported by the West, from the very earliest days of the Russian revolution. Just as in the US, the excuse happened to be based on a truth.

Out of Hand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526223)

This is getting out of hand. Airlines are complaining about already low numbers of people traveling like it already isn't a pain in the ass to fly anyways. Besides who in their right mind would register a legit name and travel to do something 'evil'. Just another way to have to control and power.

"If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve." -Jello Biafra

And once more.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526241)

...freedom loses and Osama Bin Laden wins. Who hates freedom again?

Checks and balances (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526247)

The system works:
DHS(-friendly think tank): ... it really doesn't compromise your privacy.
Congress: Really?
DHS(-friendly think tank): Really, really.
Congress: Excellent. Keep up the good work.

if the USA wants real security (1)

partowel (469956) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526267)

first...no one has any rights. period.

2. you have to tell the gov't everything you do, eat, buy, etc. etc.

3. Give up any idea that it is your life. it isn't. The gov't owns you. You are nothing but gov't property.

4. If anyone thinks this is a good thing....they are insane. But it is secure.

5. welcome to hell.

No, Really. For Serious. (1)

lmnfrs (829146) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526273)

"And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."

"And we really are aware of what the hell is going on and why this is a good idea. Also, we're not lying this time."

Re:No, Really. For Serious. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526711)

Al Gore believes Saddam is colluding with terrorists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64 [youtube.com]

There are lies. Then there are damn lies.

Tourism revenues (5, Insightful)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526285)

There are figures that your economy is losing out [ljworld.com] in the magnitude of tens of billion dollars due to decreased tourism to the USA because of stupid procedures. I know that I'm not willing to go to the USA as long as I'm treated as a criminal and I'm not alone with that sentiment.

These new plans are just bound to make it worse.

Re:Tourism revenues (4, Insightful)

robably (1044462) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526753)

I know that I'm not willing to go to the USA as long as I'm treated as a criminal and I'm not alone with that sentiment.
Amen. I feel the same way about the USA now as I do about Stonehenge - I'm glad I visited it years ago before it was spoiled by the barriers they put up.

For such a secretive administration (1)

javiercero (518708) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526291)

This current caval sure likes to keep information from the public, and for such a secretive bunch they surely don't like to extend the same courtesy to their citizens. Mind you, we pay the administration's salaries so at the end of the day they are our employees... and I would surely love to know what my employees are up to.

Won't affect me ... (1, Informative)

Alain Williams (2972) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526301)

I decided a couple of years ago that the USA was not a country that I wanted to visit: too much invasion of privacy; the country that has sponsored more terrorism than any other over the last 50 years; ignores any responsibility under Kyoto/global-warming; attempts to export its own laws to other countries; abuses power of trade for its own ends - doesn't play by the rules ...

Unfortunately: the UK seems to be following the USA; maybe a new prime minister will have more of a mind of his own - but I suspect that we need a new government to get that.

Re:Won't affect me ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526703)

It's a shame choices for an alternative are so poor in the UK... encouraging the emergence of more interesting, and politically distinguishable, parties might be one of the best legacies of increased independence of the constituent countries.

Re:Won't affect me ... (1)

Tatisimo (1061320) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526809)

And eventually, the rest of the world follows, because "all the cool kids were doing it" and "it's the civilized thing to do."

Local Travel Next? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526311)

So, we can assume that next local citizens have to register if they want to travel, lets say more then 50 miles from home, or across a state line? Or how about have to sign in if you enter any public building...

As a european.... (5, Insightful)

sjwest (948274) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526323)

Visiting the usa again got less desire-able. No i don't think i will be doing that conference in the US this year again.

While i respect the feeling that getting blown up by saudi arabian (bin g. w. bush relative) is a valid fud for the american public i don't like the aspect that all 'aliens' go to America to cause trouble.

I'm not of middle eastern origin etc but I'd still rather not visit. A thing in a national newspaper in england recently from a Journalist said that even stopping in america to jump on another plane (two hour stop-over) at Miami was the pits.

Republicans seeking tax cuts might like to know that the tourist promotions e.g. 'visit usa' might be got rid of on the basis that america it seems does not really like the concept of 'short term visitors*'

* a month or less.

Re:As a european.... (-1, Flamebait)

feepness (543479) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526445)

Visiting the usa again got less desire-able.

Given your apparent opinion of us I don't think you'll be missed. You sound like the Euoropean equivalent of the "ugly american". I've had stopovers in LAX returning from international travel. The only irritating thing was the line at the food court.

Re:As a european.... (1)

isaac (2852) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526601)

I've had stopovers in LAX returning from international travel. The only irritating thing was the line at the food court.


You are either a liar, or you haven't flown through LAX in a long time. Nobody who's ever transited the TBIT would ever write this.

LAX is a ridculously dysfunctional airport - easily the worst on the west coast.

-Isaac

Re:As a european.... (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526835)

You are either a liar, or you haven't flown through LAX in a long time. Nobody who's ever transited the TBIT would ever write this.

LAX is a ridculously dysfunctional airport - easily the worst on the west coast


Just went through there last month. It took me 30 minutes to retrieve my luggage, get through customs, and grab a seat in the gate are for my connection.

I've been through a lot... maybe I'm just good at it now.

Re:As a european.... (1)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526645)

Thats a strange way to read that post.

But if you define "us" as "bigot assholes", then i sincerely share the oppinion you claim the GP-poster had.

Re:As a european.... (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526907)

But if you define "us" as "bigot assholes", then i sincerely share the oppinion you claim the GP-poster had.

Not entirely sure what that means. You can replace "your opinion of us" with "your opinion of the US".

I'm just tired of the posts that start "As a European..." or "As a Canadian..." and then go on to say how crap the US is. Especially when they are going to quote a damn article and not even their own experience!

It's crap in the US? Good for you. Go somewhere else where you do like it.

Re:As a european.... (1)

Compholio (770966) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526531)

No i don't think i will be doing that conference in the US this year again.
Eh, we won't go to your conferences either - but that's because our government won't let us anymore :( Man, we're just screwed backwards and forwards.

Re:As a european.... (1)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526593)

Basically, i agree.

But i have to go there for my job, so i cant help it.

At least when i am there, in berkeley the facist police state isnt visible yet :)

Re:As a european.... (-1, Flamebait)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526595)

While it would be nice to block all Muslim travelers to the US, it isn't going to fly with the more PC folks. "Racial profiling" would be shouted out everywhere, even if it is far closer to "religious profiling".

If you were Jewish and ran into a neo-Nazi, would you invite them to your house? Do KKK members regularly visit Black churches in the South? So what would be wrong with telling Muslim's they aren't wanted? Especially when we have mosques in the US that preach how it is the duty of every Muslim to kill infidels - like the other people outside the mosque that live in the US.

Muslim? Go visit somewhere else. You see, we can't tell the "radical fundamentalists" apart from the "moderate Muslims" that supposedly are in the majority. It's like the old rule of treating every gun as if it is loaded.

Re:As a european.... (0, Troll)

mattmarlowe (694498) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526969)

Why should we care if you're going to travel to the US? Slashdot is tiring enough w/ all the anti-usa drivel articles to have to read more "as a european, bush sucks, usa go to hell" comments all the time. All this stuff does is make americans not want to have anything to do with europe.

They don't understand what data security is (3, Insightful)

MonGuSE (798397) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526399)

"It'll all be done electronically and biometrically. And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."

Someone should shoot these people that come up with these concoctions for security solutions. Need to fly last minute to Toronto or vice versa sorry you didn't schedule it 48 hours in advance so you must be a terrorist. Give me a damn break. Then don't get me started on his convoluted assertion that it doesn't open people up to invasions of privacy or identity theft. Every additional time you have to transmit your information, every additional database with your information, every additional set of eyes that gets to look at your information is just another spot in the chain at which point information can be stolen and/or misused. We should send this guy through dressed as an Arab with a head scarf a few times and see how he feels after getting a few rectal exams for foreign objects and the verbal abuse at every stage along the way that 'suspicious' people take.

Contrary to what Bush thinks the terrorist did succeed in setting into motion the process of destroying our freedoms that this country used to stand for. After that we should put his personal information up on the bulletin board at the post office for everyone to see and ask him how he feels after someone empties out his bank accounts and owes thousands of dollars in back taxes.

Re:They don't understand what data security is (1)

MonGuSE (798397) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526499)

They also don't know how biometric data works. If it can be stored, verified, compared then it can be generated, hacked, spoofed and stolen. Its all a bunch of ones and zeroes once it is stored in the computer.

Its not like they create a genetic duplicate of your thumb that they pull out and compare and even if we were that advanced and they could and did do that there is nothing keeping criminals from creating artificial limbs to replicate the limb in storage and replacing their own with it. These are people that are going to die anyways so whats the difference to them.

Re:They don't understand what data security is (1)

HTTP Error 403 403.9 (628865) | more than 7 years ago | (#19527013)

[T]here is nothing keeping criminals from creating artificial limbs to replicate the limb in storage and replacing their own with it.
The cost of artificial limbs might be a problem - I bet it would cost at least $6 million.

Disappointed but not surprised (1)

claes (25551) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526451)

I am honestly disappointed, although not surprised. But I wonder if the direction ever will change..? It might be that I will go to the US for business if it is required, but for pleasure, very, very unlikely as long as this continues... I am seriously wondering if things will turn around during my lifetime, I hope so because I would like to go to the US again, just not under these circumstances.

USSA (2, Insightful)

dogsbestfriend (755362) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526453)

Yeah, this was a requirement for visiting the old communist countries, wasn't it? And that was the differentiating factor between the 'free' countries and the rest of the world. Whats next? Secret police and wiretaps without warrants? Prison sentences without trial? Gulags? oh wait..

Try visiting Australia (2, Informative)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526481)

You need an "electronic visa" to get in.

Try leaving Japan sometime. They charge to leave.

The US so far hasn't been doing much in this area and it certainly high time we start. $1 entrance fee would easily pay for lots and lots of border inspectors.

Re:Try visiting Australia (2, Informative)

Brobock (226116) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526565)

Try leaving Japan sometime. They charge to leave.

I just left Japan about a week ago, I was not charged. I do this annually and never been charged to leave. I am also a US citizen however.

Ha yeah right (1)

ufpdom (556704) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526483)

As a frequent business traveller who gets 24-48 hour notices for work in other states this will not fly and all us business travellers could be flagged.

I call Bullsh*t (1)

Etherwalk (681268) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526485)

> "And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."

I don't know if the man should be charged with high treason or criminal stupidity.

Re:I call Bullsh*t (1)

SpecBear (769433) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526807)

"Shun the tyranny of the or and embrace the genius of the and."

I don't know who first said that, but he's brilliant.

Smoke Screen (1)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526507)

When the system indicates that 1/4 of the population has registered to travel impossible schedules, I'm not going to be flying that day.

Ah the wonders of a Democratic congress... (1)

samwh (921444) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526537)

It is good know that the 2006 elections changed the policy of Congress so much.

Bold Face Lies (1)

Domo-Sun (585730) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526575)

I'm getting tired of people telling us they're going to invade our privacy but it's not privacy invading.

Re:Bold Face Lies (1)

KillerCow (213458) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526779)

I'm getting tired of people telling us they're going to invade our privacy but it's not privacy invading.


I did not blockquote you, and this is not a reply.

Sorry if this sounds like a troll... (3, Insightful)

adnonsense (826530) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526581)

... but the way things are going, in a few years time the only foreigners visiting the US will be crawling up over the southern border, or brought in on CIA charter flights.

Me, last year I had an invite to go to the US - I've never been but would truly like to go - but was in two minds because it overlapped with something else - and after taking a look at what it might involve in terms of proving I'm not a terrorist (I have an old-fashioned paper passport) I gave it a miss.

And purleease, when I fly long-haul I like to take a big bottle of water to stop me dehydrating. A effing bottle of HO for chrissake. Whaddy think I'm gonna do with it, split out the hydrogen and ignite it? Yet I can buy a bottle of whisky at the duty free.

(sorry about the rant, feel free to mod me down, but I have to get it out of my system before I go on a rampage on my next flight).

Re:Sorry if this sounds like a troll... (1)

purple_cobra (848685) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526947)

Land of the Free, they call it? Yeah, right.
A friend of mine emigrated to the USA a few years back and has offered me floorspace for as long as I'd like to visit, but shortly after he left the 'security' applied to air-travellers went bananas; as such it looks like I'll be unable to take him up on this generous offer as I could happily live my whole life without subjecting myself to minute observation by people who, before this whole US 'terrorism' debacle (one event! We lived with the threat of IRA bombings for *decades*!), would have been sweeping floors and flipping burgers, but are now given actual *power*. Utter madness. The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.

Totally speechless (1)

Shadowruni (929010) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526587)

I'm terrified of this as it's not a small change. This is a fundamental change in American society and I have to say it this actually comes to pass I can see things going downhill in a bad and FAST way. The worst part is that there is ample proof of this in our society right now. I can get a letter, this letter says I must do what they ask of me and can't tell anyone that I've got the letter or what I've been told to do. Merely the remote possibility of being labeled a terrorist despite not having the expertise, resources, funding, or simple smarts is enough to have you "removed" from the system and shuttled to illegal prisons where you WISH it was Jack Bauer interrogating you.
I'm an American and at one point served in uniform. Loved it... would do it again if I could...
The scary thing is about this that anyone in Congress who speaks out against it is SOOOOO unlikely to be re-elected. None seem to have the testicualar or ovarian fortitude to say, "Damn the torpedos! Let's make this right!"
In 1984 (yes you knew it was coming) MiniLove was truely scary since they had watched Winston for seven years... before the book even started. I worry when I see things like this as I know it means that the State is taking rights away... I've yet to see taken rights given back. I'm not preaching the overthrow of the government, merely a reminder of it's purpose. I think that's been forgotten since they've learned the best mind control methods.
Watch a spoiled brat become famous for no real reason at all. Watch same spoiled brat get banged in grainy green NV. Watch her cry like the little spoiled cow she is in the back of a police car. The people were so focused on this crap, that we missed multiple bombing and atrocities worldwide. We missed the chance to fight this sort of thing.
Before anyone says I'm too high and mighty... I was in the mass I just wrote about. I cheered when she cried. Does that make me bad? No. Just part of the flock as we all are.

Dear Congress. (1)

crhylove (205956) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526677)

If you are really planning on continuing the police state that we already are increasingly living in, I plan to travel. THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.

PS. Good luck ruling the world with a country full of illegal immigrants, mindless corporate automatons and military personnel. I think that's all you'll have left after the rest of us leave.

Where to travel? (2, Insightful)

freedumb2000 (966222) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526683)

This would be even more restrictive than it used to be travelling to East Germany, which was not really fun either. I feel less and less a free human who can move around this world, that i was born into, freely. Just when you thought it couldn't get much worse (so soon!)...

Say good bye to 24 Hour service (1)

thief_inc (466143) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526697)

I am a Field Service Engineer for a major Biomedical company. Basically if one of our machines break, I will be there within 24 hours to fix it. We have many instruments nation wide. It is impossible for us to register 48 hours in advance. These machines are used at Blood Banks, and in cross matching. They would seriously jeapordize the lives of people by passing this.

Soooo... how is that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526699)

Does complaining about the evil Chinese goverment still help in distracting yourself from the problems in your own country?

It does? ... Good for you! :)

I am confused... (1)

Karem Lore (649920) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526725)

I thought the whole point of the US/UK invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was to provide the freedoms that the West enjoyed to those people. At least that was the delusion imposed on the citizens as far as I am concerned.

The irony of trying to stop a clerical regime with iron grip is so absurd it is almost funny. These clerics didn't just rise straight to the top, then chipped at freedoms until the point where there was none, and then govern in a way that prevents people having their own ideas...Is this where we are heading in the West? Maybe Middle-East style life is our Future, not our past...

This nonsense is costing us jobs (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526755)

People don't want to travel to the US of A anymore because they're more afraid of the customs goons than the terrorists.

Scientists don't want to come to conferences. Families don't want to go to Disney World.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id =2&objectid=10436518 [nzherald.co.nz]

In a recent poll of international travellers, commissioned by Discover America Partnership, a coalition of US tourist organisations, 70 per cent of respondents said they feared US officials more than terrorists or criminals. Another 66 per cent worried they would be detained for some minor blunder, such as wrongly filling out an official form or being mistaken for a terrorist, while 55 per cent say officials are "rude."


Are we safer? There's no data to prove it. Are innocent people suffering? Yes. Even Senator Kennedy got on the no-fly list.

It's stupid. It's costing us jobs. It's costing us the liberty our fathers died to preserve.

And when other countries do the same... (1)

wbean (222522) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526773)

We're going to love it when other countries start applying the same rules to US citizens who want to visit. Right now when you go to Chile you have to buy a visa at the airport for $100, payable in cash, before you can enter the country. How was the price set? Well, it's the same amount we charge Chileans visiting the US.

Want to go across the border to see Niagra Falls from the Canadian side. I can see it now, the highway will be lined with booths with computers to allow you to 'register' your itinerary before you can cross the bridge.

When will we wake up and realize that this serves no purpose.

...but does it compromise my privacy? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526853)

And it really doesn't compromise your privacy.

Wow, I'm convinced. Sign me up.

WTF happened to the Shining City? (3, Interesting)

lelitsch (31136) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526889)

But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it and see it still.

Ronald Reagan
Farewell Address to the Nation [reaganfoundation.org]
Oval Office
January 11, 1989

Amazing how far the Republican Party has moved in 18 years.

THis is why HSA should be disbanded (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#19526927)

immediately. they are nothing more then another layer of bureaucracy that does nothing to stop terrorism.

That money need to go to the CIA/NSA/FBI and to coming up with a good foreign policy.

HSA was created to create some confusion and allow an agency to get around pesky rules established to protect our rights.

Yes, posting AC ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19526935)

Since when did /. change its' subtitle to: News for nerds. Stuff about the USA. ..?

Yes, I do know that /. sits in the USA, but for a long time the actual geek/scientific/technical news are just vanishing ... US politics (more or less indirectly) dominate the news. Tbh, this is just boring/annoying. If we got a slow news day, why don't just post less stories?

That's easy to fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19527005)

I'll just cross out all my business in the USA from now on. There's money elsewhere. Bye, thanks for all the unnecessary frisks at the airport.
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