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Best Places To Work In IT

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the good-gigs dept.

Businesses 297

jcatcw writes "Computerworld's annual summary of the best places to work in IT lists companies that excel in five areas of employment: career development, retention, benefits, diversity, and training. According to the scorecard, the top five retention methods are: competitive benefits; competitive salaries; work/life balance; flexible work hours; and tuition reimbursement. Of the top 100 companies, 64 expect the number of U.S.-based IT staffers to increase in 2007, on average by 7%. Here is the whole list. The top three are Quicken Loans, University of Miami, and Sharp HealthCare."

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Yee Ha. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559021)

Second Post. Third? No?

Do people take these seriously? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559025)

My company is on the list, top 20 even, and I'm sorry but it's a joke. This is a miserable place to work, with most people answering these things positively because if they don't they get subjected to even worse "morale improvement" exercises.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559047)

Since you posted as "Anonymous Coward" why didn't you share your employer's name with us?

Re:Do people take these seriously? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559141)

Quicken Loans.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559375)

Since you posted your employer's name, why don't you share your name with us? :P just to confirm, you know..

Sd,


HR Mgr,

Quicken Loans Inc

Re:Do people take these seriously? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559495)

Certainly.

William Emerson

I was planning on asking you this on Friday, but will I be planning on seeing you here next week?

Oh I see (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559711)

I am sorry to hear that you hate your job. Maybe you should sniff around for a better one?

But what I really want to know is, what exactly does "Work/Life balance" mean? Does it mean that they only make you work 40 hours a week? Or perhaps that when you do work extra hours, they give those hours back to you as extra paid time off later? In my opinion, both of these benefits should be standard. The modern trend of excessive overwork (at least on the part of the technical staff) reeks of exploitation. THAT is the sort of thing that motivates me to describe a job as "miserable."

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Insightful)

jerryasher (151512) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559821)

Who moderated the parent up? Do you have any proof that:
a) that anonymous coward is the same anonymous coward from the grandparent?
b) that the anonymous coward actually works for quicken loans and not say, for Countrywide or Microsoft?

Why is the parent "5 informative" and not "5 funny?"

This is not a shock to me. (1)

CFD339 (795926) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559949)

I have found Intuit to be one of the most bottom line focused, difficult, and ruthless companies I've ever dealt with. A shame, they have good products.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Funny)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559143)

Read between the lines, he obviously works for Slashdot.

Drug surveys (4, Informative)

ushering05401 (1086795) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559157)

Kinda like the drug surveys we had to take in high school. They told us that all results would be anonymous... the information was only to help people understand what the 'real deal' was with teens and drugs. Then two weeks later all the kids who believed them got their lockers raided.

Regards.

Re:Drug surveys (2, Funny)

SunTzuWarmaster (930093) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559265)

Those were for real? I always answered that I did lots of drugs... my immature humor thought it was funnier that way.

Re:Drug surveys (5, Informative)

ushering05401 (1086795) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559331)

They were for real. My ass was saved by a 2600 reader who knew I was into code.

Your name was not required on the form, but the teachers issued specific instructions about how to hand the forms forward, but only *after* we had finished filling them out (my school had seating charts for every class). All of the forms were to be handed forward with the student in front placing their form on top of the student in back. Why should that have mattered if the results were to be anonymous?

I thought I was fucked after I heard that. Then I got a whap on the back of the head in the hallway after class. It was the kid who sat in front of me. He called me a fuck-wad and told me he had scratched the shit out of my form.

Other kids got expelled for telling the truth.

After word got around they discontinued the surveys and just brought in drug sniffing dogs. Yes, I was in one of *those* school districts. Too much cash and too little brains.

Regards.

Re:Drug surveys (4, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559431)

Seems like it was probably the most important lesson of your school years - don't trust anyone with institutional authority, if it can, it will be abused.

Re:Drug surveys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559461)

Damn, is this in the US, or Soviet Russia? Seriously, I never heard of this kind of totalitarian shit happening in high school.

Re:Drug surveys (2, Funny)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559547)

I'm sorry but it has to be said... In Soviet Russia, drugs take you!

Re:Drug surveys (1)

jombeewoof (1107009) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559937)

This happened in my High School as well.
Lowell High in Massachusetts. I can remember being forced to take these "anonymous" surveys and within a week I was in a meeting with the Headmaster, and my mom. (would have been about 1995 if I remember correctly)

Re:Drug surveys (2, Insightful)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559831)

Your name was not required on the form, but the teachers issued specific instructions about how to hand the forms forward,

That's when you "accidently" drop the forms on the floor, scattering them.

Re:Drug surveys (1)

Nikron (888774) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559967)

My school's drug surveys were anonymous. It wasn't required to do them, we turned them by ourselves (to a envelope in the middle of the room), and we didn't have assigned seats.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559311)

career development
This is a nonsense phrase that can be reduced to "anything except actually increasing your salary and hoping you'll fall for the substitutes".

retention
I'm not an IT drone, but I would say this boils down to the market. Retention often just means that the market sucks and there's no other place to go that's necessarily any better.

benefits
Who cares? Give me money, instead.

diversity
This is bullshit. Nobody has EVER said "I want to work at this other company, because they are more diverse". Again, pay me more and value me as an employee. I don't really give a shit what the makeup of the workforce is as long as I'm not picking up their slack.

training
Instead of spending money to hire someone who has this knowledge, we will pay a smaller amount to train existing employees and then instead of increasing their salaries accordingly, we will claim that the money we spent on the training is our compensation. Another way to get more out of employees without paying them.

work/life balance
Work/Life balance is for pussies. Do you think your CEO is worried about "balance"? He enjoys what he does and gets paid well for it. Stop buying into the bullshit that being a workaholic is somehow a bad thing.

flexible work hours

For pussies. Real men are always working.

tuition reimbursement
Pay me a better salary and I'll handle my own fucking tuition.

Here's the number one thing you can do to be a worthwhile company: STOP OUTSOURCING JOBS, THEREBY REDUCING THE VALUE OF *OUR* EMPLOYEES AND REDUCING THEIR SALARY AND LIFETIME EARNING POTENTIAL. AND STOP TRYING TO COMPENSATE FOR FUCKING US IN THE ASS WITH THAT, WITH FREE CAR DETAILING ON WEDNESDAYS. IT'S A FUCKING JOKE.

FUCK YOU.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Interesting)

Venik (915777) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559789)

Agree. Money is why I have a job. Don't give me a "Thank you" card or the "Employee of the month" coffee mug. I appreciate the extra attention, but let the dollars do the talking. I don't care who I work with - whites, blacks, males, females, transvestites, or hermaphrodites. If they know their stuff and do what they've been hired to do, we'll get along just fine. They can be loud, rude, ugly, and smelly. If I don't have to do their jobs for them - I will love them with all my heart.

As to the questioners on which this and similar ratings are based - what a bunch of hogwash. I know people who spent their best years in a dead-end IT job. They desperately grab on to anything positive about their situation - like a new water filter in the lunch room coffee maker. Isn't it wonderful to work for a company that replaces water filters at least once a year? I am sure it creates a real family atmosphere.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559429)

Seriously, mine is in the top 25 because it offers all of those "great" benefits like flex time and work life balance. They always pump it up, but when you actually try to take advantage of any of them you are met with extreme resistance.

"What do you mean you need to work from home tomorrow. I know you just got the 50th email about how great our flex time/work life balance is, but you just can't use it. Sure we have Indians doing the same work on the other side of the globe with no supervision, but I need you in the office."

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Interesting)

Null Nihils (965047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559445)

Monsanto [wikipedia.org] was on there at #27. Monsanto are the people that patent genes, have lobbied to have certain legislation [blogspot.com] * added to the new Iraq constitution, have engineered plants that are sterile and can't be replanted so people have to keep buying new seeds... that's not even the half of it, and lets not even get started on their history of litigation.

Once I saw them on there, I promptly closed the browser tab.


* Note: the article I linked came at the top of the Google search, but it may not be the most correct or objective.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (5, Insightful)

twiddlingbits (707452) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559859)

you may not like the things they make but how does that invalidate they may have a Great IT department that people actually ENJOY working at? That's really really bad logic.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (1, Flamebait)

Frankie70 (803801) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559873)


Monsanto are the people that patent genes, have lobbied to have certain legislation* added to the new Iraq constitution, have engineered plants that are sterile and can't be replanted so people have to keep buying new seeds... that's not even the half of it, and lets not even get started on their history of litigation.
Once I saw them on there, I promptly closed the browser tab.


Why can't company who have done all those things, be a good
employer?

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Insightful)

mrbooze (49713) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559465)

Amusingly, there is a point to be made here. Unrelated to this survey, but at my own company we have regular employee satisfaction surveys, and the inevitable result is that whatever areas on the survey are considered to be low-scoring, the company response is to implement new policies, training, or processes that are far more annoying than any perceived complaints before.

For example, a common complaint is "feedback", some employees feel they don't get enough feedback. First, this is incredibly ambiguous as to what this really means or if it's even really true that employees don't get enough feedback, even if some think they don't. Second, it's very possible that even if "feedback" is the lowest score on the survey, it still is easily high enough to suggest that 80+% of the employees don't consider it a problem.

And yet, in that special MBA approach to things, whatever the lowest score is must be a problem to be focussed on. So the company keeps implementing increasingly onerous mandatory review and feedback processes. At this point we now have twice yearly reviews of personal goals, yearly 360 reviews, yearly "official" reviews from our manager. At least three "all-hands" quarterly meetings every quarter. It sometimes seems that you can't get any actual work done because of all mandatory "Let's make everyone happier" procedures that keep coming up. And many of these things are not even cheap! I've been told that 360 Reviews, for example, are actually fairly expensive.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559669)

Sounds like where I work, which happens to ALSO be on this list, and ALSO in the top 20.

My favorite part of the survey that apparently scored low in my sections was "I have a best friend at work".

Apparently not enough people had a "best friend". So we were basically told that, should the question appear on the survey again, to please lower our standard for "best friend". Really.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (1)

twiddlingbits (707452) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559895)

360 reviews are NOT expensive and they DO work. Just make sure you are truly anonymous. I got in deep sh*t about one where I slammed my manager. They dug thru the MS-Word file and found the initials I used when I installed Word and traced it back. All-hands meetings can be good and bad. They should take 1-2 hours max. Yearly official reviews are pretty standard, as are mid-year progress reviews. I think it helps to know where you stand with your Management.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (5, Insightful)

StarvingSE (875139) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559499)

This is truly another Survey of Dubious Quality (tm). If they wanted to take real measurements of retention and employee satisfaction, they would ask the top 1% of the talent at said companies. Why is Google, Microsoft, IBM, and all the other big players in the industry? Not a single one is on the list, yet they continue to attract, hire, and keep the best talent.

There is no way job at Quicken Loans is better than Google or Microsoft by any stretch of the imagination.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (2, Interesting)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559637)

There is no way job at Quicken Loans is better than Google or Microsoft by any stretch of the imagination.
Accurate and insightful... my bet is that the people at Google or Microsoft are too busy making new products / putting out fires to take surveys like this.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (1)

fferreres (525414) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559869)

They do answer polls like that. Google is #1 in the "Great Places to Work" and they are fond of it and mention it "we are the best company to watch for". So no. You are wrong. :-) They do care.

Arrogance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559999)

So google doesn't appear on the list and that means they are busy while people working at quicken are not.

You probably work for google yourself, based on your arrogance.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (4, Insightful)

rossz (67331) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559973)

Since Google was rated the #1 company to work for by Fortune, they only explanation for their complete absence in the Computerworld survey is Google's failure to purchase a full page ad in this months issue of the magazine.

Re:Do people take these seriously? (1)

tweakt (325224) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559595)

Agreed. Total joke.

People answering overly positive on these are doing more harm than good to their company...
My company ended up on this list and I was shocked to say the least.

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Diversity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559089)

Are we talking about OS diversity or what?

I really don't care what color my co-workers are.

Somethings wrong... (5, Funny)

egoproxy (1114835) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559123)

I was expecting to see Computerworld in that list.

That would be too obvious... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559345)

...like this reply. XP

one page version (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559153)

Here [computerworld.com] is a link to the one page printable version of the article.

I must be missing it... (1)

chris098 (536090) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559163)

Is there a direct link to the "top 100" list and scorecards somewhere? I've only been able to read editorial reviews of the top 10.

University of Miami (1)

MrDERP (1004577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559165)

My first IT job, went to a school that was partly funded by U.M. and ended up getting my first IT job at U.M. when i was 16.. man that job was awesome, low stress, nice work environment.. all good things come to an end i guess. They used to run SCO Open Server Netware and Windos 95. Luckily i never had to use SCO ... jeff

Re:University of Miami (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559291)

University of Miami? Interestingly enough, my college IT job was with Miami University.

Miami University-- the one in Oxford.

Ohio.

Confused yet? =)

Re:University of Miami (1)

brainy (121004) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559617)

I worked for UM IT as a student employee from 1997-2001. The first two years, I was a user assistant in the computer labs. Not much different from your average work-study job, but we did have access to a better Unix server than the general student population had. After that, I was "HTML Editor" for the IT division that ran the computer labs and some other things. That job quickly morphed into PHP programmer, as we implemented various web-based things for the student system. Not a bad way to make a few bucks more than minimum wage, with the convenience of a campus job.

The list skews to larger corporations (5, Insightful)

hellfire (86129) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559183)

Frankly, I've always enjoyed in smaller companies, because the beauracracy is far less annoying and you can be more personable with the people in the company. They never really include those companies, because if they actually tried, they'd have thousands of companies to interview and it would take too much time. But if they really wanted a list that made sense they'd include smaller businesses. Expand the definition a little more and stop making such a big deal about being a huge corporation.

Re:The list skews to larger corporations (2, Informative)

FraterNLST (922749) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559471)

I used to agree, but it seems to depend on the businesses themselves. I used to work at a big comapany that felt like a small one because of the immaturity of its it department (they had only just moved from total outsourcing) and it was great fun at first. As it got bigger and tried to be more "corporate" then things went really downhill.

However I've also worked at a smaller company that was awful to work for. The manager cared about nothing but the bottom line, employees who tried to leave were threatened and new employees were bullied into taking far less than they were worse simply because they didn't know any better.

Now I work at what is considered a large IT company for the area and i'm having a great time. The work is interesting, my co-workers and managers know their stuff and are great people to boot.

Size really doesn't matter, its all about the people.

Re:The list skews to larger corporations (1)

darjen (879890) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559531)

Size really doesn't matter...
Now where have I heard that one before...

Re:The list skews to larger corporations (1)

darjen (879890) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559479)

Very true, my technology company is ~300 employees and I love working for them. And it's by far the largest company I've worked for so far.

Re:The list skews to larger corporations (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559623)

And not only larger organizations, it skews towards public organizations. I worked for Bloomberg in NYC, and they were pretty a secretive and would not participate in a survey like this- but they treat their employees damn well. Technical/finance training, fully stocked kitchens, well decorated offices, pay is generally excellent, etc.

Before them, I worked in a small group that would not show up on this list- very profitable, and again treated us very well (.com days too, so a little too well- though they are still around and doing well). I now work for a hedgefund, and let me tell you that while the hours are harsh, they make damn sure we want to stay there. I was not around during the 80's but the excesses that went on must be a pittance to what goes on there.

Quickenloans (5, Funny)

z-man (103297) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559245)

From TFA:
Why it's the best
"Celebration galas at this online loan company are star-studded: Kid Rock performed at the 2006 holiday gala and The Black Eyed Peas were featured performers at the company's 20th anniversary party."

Judging by that line-up of artists I wouldn't even want to work in an adjacent area!

Re:Quickenloans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559267)

No kidding. And as soon as the financial picture becomes less than rosy, those are the first perks to go - Applied Materials hosted employees in the San Jose arena for the Gin Blossoms and Bob Dylan in 1998 - think they've done that lately?

The 0th best place to work (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559275)

On the beach, with my laptop, sipping a Corona, watching the babes.

And then I woke up.

Nothing on that list for me... (5, Insightful)

Tomy (34647) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559283)

Maybe my standards are different, but the companies on that list don't seem very interesting.

It reminds me many years ago ('97) when I and a coworker decided we had had enough of the company we were working for, and decided to make a top ten list of companies we wanted to work for. Both of us landed jobs with our number one choice, but our top ten lists were very different. Mine was a list of coolest companies to work for, and mostly startups (Cygnus Solutions being at the top of my list), and his were more "nicest" companies to work for (SAS being at the top of his list, they have a 35 hour work week, pianist in the cafeteria, gyms, etc).

Perks are great and all, but if the work is not intellectually challenging, or just patience-challenging, and I'm not pushing the envelope, I'm going to be bored out of my skull and not improving my skills, which is a terrible way to spend almost one third of your life.

Exactly what groundbreaking technologies are being developed at a loan website, besides finding new ways to get past my spam filters?

Re:Nothing on that list for me... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559397)

The only perk and benefit I want is more money. Don't try and distract me from shitty pay that has been artificially reduced by unfair injection into the workforce by foreign labor by paying me less and giving me a gym membership. Just give me more fucking money. I'm there to work. In exchange for money. It's not a fucking barter system and I'm not in kindergarten.

Re:Nothing on that list for me... (1)

Tomy (34647) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559443)

If I had mod points, I would mod you up. Only area I can't agree with you is in the area of health insurance. Unfortunately companies can get a better deal than the individual. But you're right, if a company is paying for perks that I don't use, it's still coming out of my pocket. Just give me the damn money and I will buy my own perks.

Re:Nothing on that list for me... (5, Insightful)

Bucc5062 (856482) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559553)

there comes a point where one discovers that a job is a means to an end, and not the means. I used to live for the next project, the cool new "thing". If you work in corporate USA that moment is so rare is is better to try for the lottery. Find somethng outside of work and life for that. Company X, the best place in the world to work, will can your ass the moment the numbers do not add up for keeping you.

Start up a company and one day you'll experience the moment when you need to "downsize" and those that had the rose colored glasses will get them stripped off their eyes.

I've spent 28 years in the IT industry, from mainframes, to minis, to Client Server, and what I have learned the most is that the love of a woman far outways a fucking promotion, the joy of doing something you enjoy far outways making the boss happy on Sunday fucking afternoon, that taking time for ones self has a better life expectancy then dieng a slow death for the fucking "Company".

Best places to work for? I had two and they got sold, chewed up and turned into shit holes, so please stop thinking that dragging you're ass to a cube every day, even if they had piano playing in the lobby is going to bring some sort of satisfaction in life. Google is no better no worse then the sweat shop in china. They just give you shinier trinkets to distract you.

Six months ago I rescued a horse from possible auction to slaughter. Today she is healthy, happy, and helping me learn to ride. The job helps me help her have a better life. That is more real, more a sense of accomplishment then pleasing some exec in an irovy tower. Piano bars, flex time, treats tossed from on high as our mouths hang open...slight of hand. To quote Mr Heston "Soylent green is Man"... Better to live outside of the job then think it will define you.

There is not best place to work other then that which fills the soul, and makes us feel like we did goo that day. a janitor may be a king compared to most IT professionals.

Re:Nothing on that list for me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559989)

I've spent 28 years in the IT industry, from mainframes, to minis, to Client Server, and what I have learned the most is that the love of a woman far outways a fucking promotion, the joy of doing something you enjoy far outways making the boss happy on Sunday fucking afternoon, that taking time for ones self has a better life expectancy then dieng a slow death for the fucking "Company".
Yep, this made the list.
"Work/life balance." An often-forgotten goal. Perks that give extra stuff for working more is nice and all, but what about the perks that give just as much for working less?

Re:Nothing on that list for me... (1)

kukickface (675936) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559643)

Actually I guess it depends on what you deam intellectually challenging. I mean, the logic involved in a loan allocation system is pretty complex. Add real time, streaming metrics to that so everything can be throttled and it's even more complex.

Let alone having a system of record to automate the entire mortgage process.

Bored out of your skull? How many companies have the .NET 3.0 runtime installed on every desktop and are already deploying production systems based on WCF, WSE 3.0, WF, WPF, etc. How many have true SOA implementations and smart clients running rampant?

Quicken Loans isn't going to be building a quantum computer anytime soon, but they are a company that actually "gets it" technology wise and uses that to their advantage to write more loans.

PFFT (4, Informative)

yamamushi (903955) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559285)

USAA Is on the list, and its considered one of the WORST places to work. My Company was voted #1 place to work in San Antonio, OVER USAA, and guess what? We're a TECH company (Rackspace Managed Hosting). I'm glad I don't base my career choices off of lists like these.

Re:PFFT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559409)

I work at USAA as a Java developer, anything happening at Rackspace? I heard that you guys are moving/have moved. Where are you now? Drop me a line: lyotordoqi@kriocoudek.mailexpire.com

Re:PFFT (1)

m1ndrape (971736) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559893)

not sure about the opportunities, but they are moving to some mall on the north-east side of S.A. Any rackers wanna clarify this?

Re:PFFT (1)

m1ndrape (971736) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559611)

actually peer1 is the place to be, aka ServerBeach :)

Re:PFFT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559765)


If you love the military, you will *love* USAA.

Venezuela (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559321)

I wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela becomes a better place for an IT job than the US in the coming years. I'd gladly welcome Chavez as our president over Bush.

Mod Parent -1 flamebait like this post... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559401)

Then pack your bags and MOVE!!

heavily tilted toward colleges and health care (1)

gelfling (6534) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559361)

Two industries not traditionally bound towards cost containment and heavily tilted towards less than parity salaries. So basically the best place to work is one that has lots of money and doesn't spend it on salaries. There sure as hell better be other perks.

Noticeably Absent... (3, Interesting)

EtherAlchemist (789180) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559373)


...Google. Weird. I really expected to see them.

Re:Noticeably Absent... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559501)

...Google. Weird. I really expected to see them.
These "surveys" are just PR for the HR departments. They have little objective reality. My impression is that Google has no problems hiring enough of the drone-level people who are fooled by these things. The people that Google does have to put some effort into recruiting are probably the type to figure things out on their own anyway.

Re:Noticeably Absent... (5, Funny)

Odo (109839) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559541)

I work for Google, and I gotta tell you, it's a pain to have to research an answer and type up a page of results within 0.17 seconds of a user hitting the Search button. Someone help!

Re:Noticeably Absent... (1)

Bob54321 (911744) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559627)

Is this just because they were the obvious winner... just like emacs vs vi in the best flamewar poll.

I don't think it qualifies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559777)

for the same reason the Church of the Scientology doesn't.

Microsoft too actually... (1)

xdotx (966421) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559855)

In all honesty I expected Microsoft up there, but of course after Google. All MS bashing aside, everyone I know that works there, or has recently, generally loves the place. In addition to brainwashing, they have flexible/short work hours (except crunch times), a really nice campus, good cafeterias, challenging and/or interesting work, salary(!), optional travel... Of course all of that depends on who you are, what dept. (most I know are in the xbox dept.), etc.

Ps - the brainwashing was a joke (i think they just put something in the water)

Re:Noticeably Absent... (1)

BridgeBum (11413) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559901)

Companies decide whether or not to participate in these types of surveys. It wouldn't suprise me if Google didn't want to play the games.

Are Oracle DBAs still in demand? (1)

SethJohnson (112166) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559377)

Are Oracle DBA positions still high-paying and in demand? I was thinking about getting OCP, but have been away from it a while and can't tell if it's worth pursuing. Can anyone provide some insight?

Appreciatively,

Seth

Re:Are Oracle DBAs still in demand? (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559549)

Yes and yes. Its not as high demand as some other IT jobs that are exploding lately, but once you nail a Oracle DBA job, you're rolling on gold still. The only issue is that considering the cost of an Oracle install, on top of the DBA, everyone who pays the bills will be wishing you're dead. But until you are, you'll be raking in.

Re:Are Oracle DBAs still in demand? (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559703)

I think there are a good number of decent dba jobs out there - the ocp part, I don't know. I think most places are more interested in experience than just the cert. It is painfully easy to get an ocp without having much of a clue.

Re:Are Oracle DBAs still in demand? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559809)

Was talking to a guy the other day, and Oracle/SQL DBAs are hot in DC. 200+. I wonder what they could be doing with all those databases. Oh and you need to be a citizen. Hmmm.

Best place to work in IT... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559393)

...in my underwear.

From the Best to the Worst (2, Insightful)

macaroo (847109) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559395)

I worked for a Fortune 100 company for 25 years before retiring and starting my own computer repair business. I saw this company go from the best to the worst in that quarter of a century. I was one of the lucky ones and got something from them before they imploded; a mire shadow of once an industry giant. The last several years were tough, but by then I had too much of my career invested to leave voluntarily. I am much happier now that I can dance to my own tunes.

#17, Philip Morris (4, Funny)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559433)

I hear that one of the perqs at Philip Morris is free smokes for the whole family.

RE: #17, Philip Morris (1)

Choedius (82566) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559951)

Peter Griffin: Check out the new toys we're making.
Meg Griffin: "Baby Smokes-A-Lot"?
Baby Smokes-A-Lot: [doll puffs cigarette then giggles]
Baby Smokes-A-Lot: "Tastes like happy."

Really? (5, Funny)

Wiarumas (919682) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559437)

"...top five retention methods are: competitive benefits; competitive salaries; work/life balance; flexible work hours; and tuition reimbursement"

Free World of Warcraft gold is conspicuously missing from the list.

How these surveys traditionally work... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559453)

Hi, we'd like to consider you for our "n best places in X to work."

For a single fee of $5,000, we will investigate your employees opinions of the company. We're limiting the number of companies we're accepting to n so you can be sure of a place within the top n.

For a single fee of $10,000, we will carry out a more in depth analysis of the company. In this higher tier, we're limiting it to only 0.5n entries. We're confident a more in depth analysis will reveal greater strengths of the company, ensuring it a place in the top 0.5n.

For a fee of $25,000, we will additionally listen to executive feedback about your company. This gives us a greater insight in to your company. Whilst it would be unethical to promise a slot in the top 0.2n, this option is strictly limited and it is certainly very likely.

Finally, for a fee of $50,000, we will send someone to your offices to gather employee feedback. Only 0.1n companies will be accepted for this most rigorous of investigations. Again, we would never imply that buying such an in depth examination would guarantee a slot in the top 0.1n but it would certainly be a very good investment.
Amazingly, those who cough up the highest fee get to put on their ads that they're in the top 10 places in their field to work. Whilst there's absolutely no way *wink*wink* that they could buy such standing, the thorough level of investigation they so kindly covered the costs for ensured that their best features came out and that really helped with the win.

This is also exactly how ClearChannel is rumored to get around "payola" claims. Instead of paying to play - which is illegal - music companies buy listener review sessions. It's pure coincidence that those who buy the most get the most airtime.

There's more than what's on the scorecard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559467)

I really think it's an unfair scorecard. I work a major online outdoor retailer, and I really do believe it's the best job in IT. I mean, we have weekly training sessions, we're constantly innovating and working with new ideas, and the people who I work with are brilliant. I get paid relatively well also. However, that's not why I believe my job is the best.

The reason where I work is the best is because the company really encourages being in the outdoors. We're based in Park City, and we get free passes to all the local ski resorts. On our lunch break, you can catch any one of us running or biking local trails. Hell, they're paying for me to run the Wasatch Back Relay, and got a bunch of companies (The North Face, UnderArmor, etc) to sponsor us with gear (it's some great gear at that!).

Sure, I'm a geek, and I love my job. But really... there's more to having a great job than moving up in a company, or getting paid more.

Also know as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559477)

The top 100 companies in terms of money and perks given to Computerworld.

Start a business (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559503)

The best place to work is your own, start a business.

According to the commercials on G4... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559515)

...the best p[lace to work is Johnson's College. You get to program game code using a PS2 controller, and it's really clever stuff. You get to move the character 'this way'. Oh and use that same sound effect from the last level.

They don't tell you about the Red Bull-induced shakes after working 72 hours flat out because some dick in a suit (hi, Dick) promised this lackluster piece of crap would be out the day before the film hits theaters. Or when small companies go under, leaving you up that creek without that paddle.

Bitter? Moi?

I think I found a new correlation... (4, Insightful)

Ignignokt_the_dead (1117213) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559521)

I'm a top-tier UNIX support guy that supports a bunch of these IT groups in the list. We save their bacon when they have a "senior" moment and screw the pooch. Or our software breaks or fails. In that theater, everyone gets to earn their bones. You get to know "organizations" instead of individuals, because you are an outsider. You never get just one guy on the phone, crying in his mountain dew. The "system" may have from 3 to as many as 20 heads, all siloed in their perfect knowledge of "how it's supposed to work". This may be the first time some of them have met. On the field of desperation. The help you HAVE to provide a customer like this tells much about what they really know about "How it works". The list almost seems an upside-down chart of my most "clueless" customers to more and more competent. Really. It scared me. To Know that IT nirvana is inversely proportional to operational competence. And now somebody wants me to think that's good? My head exploded. Ya wanna know what scared me more? I was quizzed by the same rating company (ramdomly?) last week at MY company. I'm REALLY hoping this ain't a trend. It's too many years till retirement :(

Re:I think I found a new correlation... (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559721)

I'm a top-tier UNIX support guy

At least you have healthy self-esteem there...

Re:I think I found a new correlation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559851)

I was just thinking the same thing, if you have "support" anywhere in your job title, you aren't top-tier anything...

Slash on slash. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559557)

"Computerworld's annual summary of the best places to work in IT lists companies that excel in five areas of employment: career development, retention, benefits, diversity, and training."

I noticed that OSTG isn't on the list. What's up with that, Taco?

The best place to work in IT is from your own car (4, Interesting)

grapeape (137008) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559573)

After being with several corporations from small local companies to fortune 500, I have found the best place to work in IT is on your own. Make some business cards, invest in a van or other vehicle with room for parts, build an overhead of replacement parts and supplies, then hit the pavement and get the word out. Signage on a vehicle can be a good way to get the word out as well. I get most of my customers via word of mouth but have more work than I can handle most of the time. What I cant handle I pass on to others I know doing the same thing. Clients are happy because they get individual attention and someone to call that they can depend on. I am happy because they treat me like im really helping them rather than as some flunky who is beneath them. The money is much better than the average IT job and with the occasional unavoidable emergency, I pretty much set my own hours. It's not for everyone, you have to be self motivated, people friendly and confident in your skills, but its well worth it.

Bullshit list (2, Insightful)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559585)

I'm all for Minneapolis, but honestly, how the hell does General Mills get on the list for Minneapolis, but they exclude other companies like Seagate? Where the hell is Honeywell? And what does General Mills do that qualifies as IT? I would imagine the Mayo Clinic would be more IT than GM, and much of a better place at that, and that's not on the list? Who's willing to place bets that these are companies that the authors' friends and families work at?

obvious claptrap (2, Interesting)

Kooshman (248753) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559645)

This is obviously a thinly researched fluff piece, considering it doesn't have National Instruments mentioned anywhere. It's been on the Forbes best 100 places to work list for eight years running. It's happy to send its employees to the University of Texas for additional education, and actively encourages its employees to move around within the company.

No Google? (1, Interesting)

humblecoder (472099) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559651)

It is interesting that Google did not make the list. Google is always held up as being the best company to work for, if you believe geek lore. They are the pinnacle of the "nerf guns in the office" culture that was heralded in by the dotcom bubble. However, there are nowhere to be found...

Either something is wrong with that survey, or Google isn't as good as advertised.

I also don't see Microsoft on the list. Love em or hate em, they are also considered to be a top geek employer. I guess it might be because those stock options aren't as great as they used to be.

My guess (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19559847)

Maybe having to work 60h/week and be active part of their "culture" is not so appreciated by people that are not socially challenged.

Quicken CEO & Cavs... (2, Insightful)

southpolesammy (150094) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559717)

I know many (most?) Slashdotters don't follow sports to any large degree, however this one jumped out at me. From within TFA:

[Quicken Loans] founder Dan Gilbert, who also owns the NBA's Cleveland Cavaliers, invites employees to travel to Cleveland to see the team in action via the Cavs Express.

Ummm....the company is headquartered in Livonia, Michigan -- big-time Detroit Pistons territory. Might as well offer your employees tickets to see the Ohio State Buckeyes or Chicago Bulls -- equally hated rivals of Michigan sports fans...

[ObDisclaimer -- I'm a big Ohio State fan...give me the tickets!]

No more ice cream... (1)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559735)

I'm pretty sure my company was on the list last year... but not this year. Too bad, we got free ice cream and an hour out in the sun. Yep, in the 50's last year... dang you ComputerWorld for taking away my ice cream!!!

Best place to work in IT (2, Insightful)

MrCopilot (871878) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559795)

Home.

The White House (4, Funny)

ring-eldest (866342) | more than 7 years ago | (#19559971)

The current administration provides the best IT jobs... All you have to do is delete a few emails a day!
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