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Microsoft Pleads With Consumers to Adopt Vista Now

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the our-os-is-so-awesomez dept.

Microsoft 912

SlinkySausage writes "Microsoft has admitted, in an email to the press, that 'some customers may be waiting to adopt Windows Vista because they've heard rumors about device or application compatibility issues, or because they think they should wait for a service pack release.' The company is now pleading with customers not to wait until the release of SP1 at the end of the year, launching a 'fact rich' program to try to convince them to 'proceed with confidence'. The announcement coincides with an embarrassing double-backflip: Microsoft had pre-briefed journalists that it was going to allow home users to run Vista basic and premium under virtual machines like VMWare, but it changed its mind at the last minute and pulled the announcement."

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Yeah... Are they going to indemnify us? (5, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576855)

Y'know against support problems, non working applications? No?

Thought not.


How about against IP violations? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577073)

Didn't think so either.

Woe is them (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576857)

Pleading with your customers to buy your product? Who do they think they are, "Head On"?

And it's no surprise they changed their mind about changing their mind about virtualization. Anything to forse, um, get a customer to upgrade to another level of Vista ...

Um... (4, Insightful)

richie2000 (159732) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576877)

Just say No.

XP is the end of the line for me and Windows. We've had a long and bumpy relationship, but it's over now. Time to move on.

Re:Um... (5, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576915)

I'd have to say that Vista is the greatest gift MS could have possibly given to Linux, BSD, and the Mac. When longhorn cratered, they rushed out a cosmetic update, that is so utterly mediocre, and yet requires hardware upgrades for even its trivial improvements. That puts a lot of customers in play who got sick of waiting, and aren't about to wait six years for MS's next try.

MS is going to lose a lot of their market share in the next few years, with Linux picking up most of the server business, and the Mac getting the desktops and laptops.


Re:Um... (4, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577031)

I'd have to say that Vista is the greatest gift MS could have possibly given to Linux, BSD, and the Mac. When longhorn cratered, they rushed out a cosmetic update, that is so utterly mediocre, and yet requires hardware upgrades for even its trivial improvements
This is why I don't worry too much about (non governmentally enforced) monopolies, as bad as they are, human nature kicks in and they get complacent, lazy and greedy.


Re:Um... (3, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577087)

No, I think Microsoft will eventually declare that Vista is just one among their collection of wares that didn't go over all that well... you know, "Bob" and "WinME" are among the more famous members. (I also find it amusing that people repeatedly respond that it's NOT a flop... dude! It *IS!*)

In a brief moment of sobriety, Microsoft will rebuff Windows XP and possibly even release a new variant of XP such as "Security Enhanced XP." That's my prediction anyway... but hey, I was right about Vista being a flop.

Re:Um... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577121)

Ah, yes... a new version of Windows called SEXP. I predict the name alone will sell a lot of copies of that one. :)

Re:Um... (4, Interesting)

LehiNephi (695428) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577251)

There's a big difference here, though. Windows ME was released less than two years after Win98. So there was only a couple years' worth of development involved. Vista, however, is six years after XP. There's a lot more investment involved here.

When ME was released, Microsoft had two very-recent codebases to work with--the NT and 9x series. Both were recent, and both had strengths and weaknesses. There was nothing wrong with picking bits and pieces from each in order to meld XP. Not so with Vista. Now they have the Server 2003 codebase and the XP codebase, four and six years old respectively. And Microsoft are trying to get away from the XP codebase.

So now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, they have this new, shiny, potentially-better platform in Vista, but it is plagued with average hardware support and multitudes of teething problems. On the other hand, they have the old and busted but very compatible XP. If they were to rush out a new OS, they'd have to base it on one or the other. To base it on Vista would be pointless, as Vista will be updated/patched anyway. To base it on XP would be a humongous step backwards, particularly because of all the money invested in Vista. In other words, I don't think they'll come out with a WinXP SE. I sure wouldn't mind the big laugh we'll all have at their expense if they do, though...

Re:Um... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577317)

(I also find it amusing that people repeatedly respond that it's NOT a flop... dude! It *IS!*)

I find it amusing that people call it a flop... I thought it hadn't sold well enough to be even that good.

They'll probably do the same thing Intel did with their processors, in the PIII and later generations, but with Windows.

Go back to an old tech, but with tweaks, and change the name.

P3 -> [new structure] P4
---------> [P3 derivative] Pentium M -> [Pentium M derivative, with the two good elements of P4] Core2

Windows XP
-> [New "features"] Windows Vista
----> [Mostly XP, with an optional Aero from Vista, and a few other tweaks] *Achieve OS

*I strongly suspect a change in the OS name in the next few years, it'll probably be something suggesting either network or productivity.

Re:Um... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577091)

MS is going to lose a lot of their market share in the next few years, with Linux picking up most of the server business, and the Mac getting the desktops and laptops.

this is the same exact mantra we've been hearing out of you people for 10 years. when is this really going to happen?

Re:Um... (1)

wolverine1999 (126497) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577307)

Now. Right now.

Re:Um... (3, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577379)

It's not. Vista is way nicer to sue than XP. I'd guess 95% of people on here moaning about vista have never used it. I use it every day and I'm very happy with it. It's an improvement in hundreds of tiny little ways.
The people bitching about vista here are the same ones who bitched about XP, and before that, windows 2000.

Re:Um... (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576923)

Ive been microsoft free four months now. Not looking back. Well... except for my counterstrike box;P

Re:Um... (1)

speaker of the truth (1112181) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577173)

Same for me. Vista is enough for me to finally either migrate to a Mac, learn and use Linux or both.

Re:Um... (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577281)

XP is the end of the line for me and Windows. We've had a long and bumpy relationship, but it's over now. Time to move on.

I stopped at Win2000. Well, entirely not true. I went with a warezed copy XP for a time (prompted by a need for Cleartype for use on LCD screens), and bumped against activation issues. I concluded that I simply didn't need the hassle. In fact, I didn't need it at all.

Not everyone has that luxury, however, or can avoid living on the Windows treadmill. If in the future I need to run Windows (I'm talking personal use here), it'll be because I bought a Mac. Sure, Microsoft may receive payment for a copy of their software, but I think it says more about the end of Microsoft's hegemony than it says about Apple's growing popularity.

As for the article, I'm amused at the Microsoft's choice of the word "rumors" with respect to delaying purchase. From the fine article:

SP1 is no minor update. Although Microsoft won't officially comment on its contents, we do know that Microsoft is at some point going to provide a complete replacement for the Windows kernel, moving from version 6.0 to 6.1 -- the same kernel found in Windows Server 2008 (codenamed Longhorn).
If XP is any indicator (notwithstanding the history of most Microsoft products), I'd suggest that what is good advice (as opposed to rumor) is to wait for SP2.

Don't wait for SP1... (5, Funny)

stevie-boy (145403) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576881)

... it's not like it will actually fix anything, anyway ;-)

Re:Don't wait for SP1... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19576903)

Mod parent up! Its both funny and informative! In short, a devestatingly subversive comment that will probably become a meme in on time flat!

No problem (0)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576883)

Give it to me for free... As many licenses as I need. The best machine I have can't run it fully anyway: a laptop on sale in January is mere "Vista Capable". Sure, it's the graphic chipset, but under XP or Ubuntu it works perfectly fine.

This just shows that it is hard to sell an upgrade to a mature product....

Re:No problem (3, Informative)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577213)

Funnily enough MS sent me Vista for free for watching some technical videos. While I don't consider Vista an essential upgrade if you have XP, it is a very pleasant environment, stable and I don't think it deserves most of the badmouthing it is getting. That's not to say it's without annoyances - UAC is a piece of crap and was the first thing I disabled and it annoys me no end that MS Paint, Notepad and Calc NEVER get updated. But the desktop is excellent, as is the Aero Glass theme. I haven't had any significant application compatibility issues with UAC disabled, except for Developer Studio 2003 which I had to enable a UI compatibility mode to stop it hanging during a find in files operation. Other apps and games that I use have worked just fine.

Ey ey ey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577299)

MSPaint got upgraded for Vista. It now has a "crop" function!!!!

You, however, got it for free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577375)

Now, think of what it would be like if you'd plunked down £100 for it. Any loss of functionality would see you saying "why did I plunk down cash for this!". When it's free, you probably found something missing or broken and thought "well, I've still got XP" because there is no lost cash.

Maybe the only way for MS to get Vista selling is to sell at the cheapest OEM price (or free) and encourage dual-booting between XP and vista.

MS's greed is there worse enemy (0)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576885)

MS has tried to glitz up everything rather than just giving customers what they need and want/ a decent OS at a fair price with good support. MS has BILLIONS in the bank. They should have spent a lot more to code up vista/apps as well as bump their phone support. As it is, MS is well known for some of the worst support.

Re:MS's greed is there worse enemy (5, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576939)

Your complaint presumes that Microsoft is capable of just giving customers what they want. With their current state of management dysfunction, Vista is in all likelihood the very best product they could make. Sad, but true.


Re:MS's greed is there worse enemy (2, Insightful)

rsmoody (791160) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577021)

MS has support for the end user? That's a new one to me.

Re:MS's greed is there worse enemy (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577249)

In any normal market the product price would be lowered to increase demand.

I hate begging... (5, Funny)

gbobeck (926553) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576899)

I really hate begging. Doubly so when it comes from such a big company.

Now, bribery, I'm ok with... Maybe if they slipped me a couple hundred dollars, I would reconsider their operating system offering.

The troubles you get from M$ aren't worth that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577183)

How much do you spend on your hardware and maybe even apps?

Why the hell would you toss all that $$$ down the tubes to put Vista on it just for a couple of hundred bucks? If you put a few drops of fine wine in sewage you get sewage. If you put a few drops of sewage in a fine wine you get ... sewage.

A $15K desktop with Vista on it is still an expensive turd. Even if M$ were to toss you $500 to put Vista on such a box, it wouldn't be worth it.

No (4, Insightful)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576911)

I"ve spent the past couple of months trying to switch to Vista and I keep going back to Windows XP. There simply is no compelling reason to use Vista. Not only is it noticeably slower than XP, there are dozens of annoying little things that constantly get in my way.

Windows XP was a major improvement over Windows 95/98 (which is what most people were using when XP was first released) but Vista is a major step backward. Not to mention horrendously bloated and absurdly over-priced.

Re:No (4, Insightful)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577029)

I *MIGHT* Upgrade to Vista if they get rid of all the nasty DRM requiements [] that is basically them bending over backwards for MAFIAA.

Ofcourse if they got rid of all that crap they *MIGHT* actually have an operating system that will run as fast as XP and people will consider buying it. Until then its doomed to rot on the shelves with all the intelligent IT people badmouthing it (which is where most customers get their info from)

Re:No (2, Insightful)

FireFury03 (653718) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577191)

Until then its doomed to rot on the shelves with all the intelligent IT people badmouthing it (which is where most customers get their info from)

No, most customers get their info from the highstreet PC retailers who are pushing Vista as the New Big Thing the everyone should have.

Whatever MS do, their operating systems are guaranteed success because they come bundled on machines - most people will buy whatever they are told is the latest thing. The majority of people don't buy preinstalled machines based on an informed decision of what a specific version of Windows will or won't do for them.

Re:No (4, Insightful)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577199)

I'm curious are you spouting the usual slashdot group think opinion, what is actually getting in the way? My expearence has shown it to be XP with a few little extra features which make my life better. I'll admit for most people there isn't a great incentive to upgrade but if you have its worth using. I'm curious what's your answer going to be?

If you don't like it don't use it, just don't be a karma whore. Sure Vista can be slow but then running vista on 512mb of ram is like running XP on 128mb's, something you shouldn't do. Can we actually see a compelling reason rather than the usual rants?

Re:No (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577221)

The price really is an issue, given the fact that the version which really has anything you need even as a home user is vista ultimate, this thing is a price hike of 100% or even more. Vista home is a joke, who on earth came to the idea that it was wise to add a backup function and then once you want to restore the backups you have to buy ultimate, this person should be immediately fired. I am not sure if such a thing is legal, but it is on the boundaries of screwing your own customers in the ****

Re:No (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577253)

I still haven't seen vista yet. For those who have and some of them are not "computer geeks" I haven't heard anything really good about it yet. They have reported hardware not working, programs don't load. The reason why people use Windows is not because of the features, the UI, or Security it is because their apps run on it and so does their hardware. That has always been the case. Back in the DOS days the reason for choosing a DOS Based IBM/IBM Compatible system over the other systems (Macs, Amiga, Comadore...) which may have been superior to the IBMs and DOS, is the fact it had a huge amount of software for it. Just like today in a software store 80% PC ,10% Game Console, 5% Apple, 5% Other

Re:No (1)

Agrajag-01 (1085957) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577285)

It looks pretty but other than that there is no reason for the update. Maybe the security is better but as I have literally had one virus in 20 years and very little spyware it doesn't seem to be a real problem for me at least. I had two machines using Vista. One I upgraded(!?) and another a new laptop that came with it. I had enough on my upgraded machine and went back to XP when one day Vista decided I needed to install IDE hard disk drivers and wouldn't take no for an answer (device manager look fine and reinstalling the montherboard drivers didn't help). Vista is ok on the laptop but I hate it when it turns itself on after I put it into hibernate. I can see all the lights are off for a good 10 mins at least then when I grab it to go to work in the morning the damn thing is in suspend mode (blinking power light and wireless light is illuminated) and used half the power overnight. The device driver support is pretty bad. I tried using one of my 5 year old plus network cards but there is no driver support for any of non-montherboard cards. Pretty annoying.

Some things I like about Vista (4, Interesting)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577289)

Vista has a few things I could live without (like UAC and mandatory driver signing, both of which I have disabled), but it also has some features that I really miss if I have to use someone's XP box.

  • Window redraw lag is gone when using Aero. This never bugged me too much in XP but now that I've lived without it for so long I tend to notice it a lot.
  • Per-application volume controls.
  • Hit my keyboard's start button, start typing the name of an application and hit enter to launch the app.
  • Being able to show and sort by several file properties, directly in explorer.
  • Rename a file in explorer, and hit tab to start renaming the next file in the list.
  • Simple, integrated searching.

And for the programmer in me:

  • Transactional NTFS/Registry. Being able to use begin/commit/rollback and be guaranteed ACIDic operation is incredibly sexy.
  • Task Dialogs. Having a standard configurable dialog is much better than having to roll your own or worse use unintuitive message boxes. About freakin' time.

Re:No (-1, Offtopic)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577365)

"My dog! It's full of rats!" - 2001, A Dyslexic Odyssey

Shouldn't that be 1002?

embarrassing double-backflip? (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576913)

If I could do a double backflip I would be proud as punch! I would probably never walk again but it might be worth it.

another thought (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19576925)

we do know that Microsoft is at some point going to provide a complete replacement for the Windows kernel, moving from version 6.0 to 6.1 -- the same kernel found in Windows Server 2008

Knowing that is going to have bugs, wouldn't it be better to wait for sp2??

Yay more masturbation material (1, Funny)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576933)

Quickly, Slashdot experts. Get in here with your predictions of how Microsoft is failing and Windows will be a memory in a short time and people will suddenly start caring about Linux. You don't want to be the last to get your load on the biscuit.

Re:Yay more masturbation material (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19576987)

You don't want to be the last to get your load on the biscuit.

Am I the only one who finds this sentence profoundly disturbing?

Re:Yay more masturbation material (1)

GreyPoopon (411036) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577049)

Am I the only one who finds this sentence profoundly disturbing?

It depends. Had you planned on _eating_ the biscuit?

Re:Yay more masturbation material (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577103)

For some of us MSFT *has* been just an annoying thing of the past. I've been running Gentoo desktop/laptops for the past several years and haven't really looked back. Whenever I buy a new box the first thought in my mind is whether I have a gentoo boot CD handy or not.

That MSFT is begging people to buy Vista is just mint. I never expected Vista to sell well, mostly because it's a step back in terms of user experience from XP [and costs more in both upfront costs and hardware]. MSFT got complacent and greedy, and this is what they're left with. They could have spent their billions on making windows more industry standards compliant, or invest in useful software like OpenOffice, the gimp, GCC, etc. After all, what's the best way to sell an OS? Make sure there is software for it.

But nooooo, MSFT wanted to hog all the toys. Now the other kids just don't want to play anymore. Yipee.


a "fact rich" statement (5, Insightful)

senatorpjt (709879) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576947)

Device and application incompatibilities never stopped anyone from upgrading. With Vista, it's not so much that there's a reason to not upgrade, as there isn't a reason TO upgrade.

Too late. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19576957)

Too late, already switched to Ubuntu.

Re:Too late. (3, Funny)

MollyB (162595) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577097)

Too late, already switched to Ubuntu.
You beat me to it! Anyway, that makes two (kazillion?) of us. 8)

We're not consumers! (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576961)

We are customers. An operating system is not like bread or coffee.

Re:We're not consumers! (1)

speaker of the truth (1112181) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577225)

That's exactly the reaction SlinkySausage wanted you to have. If you RTFA you'll find this bit of flamebait was added for slashdot.

Re:We're not consumers! (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577363)

Even with bread and coffee, I'm first of all a customer. I don't rip the package open in the store and munch away on the beans instead of going to the checkout and pay for them. For all the stop is concerned I'm a customer. Whether I consume the goods or fill a bathtub with coffee beans to jack off while lying in them is none of their business.

Slashdot pleads with users to adopt Linux now... (5, Funny)

Noryungi (70322) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576977)

Annoy a billionaire... Install Ubuntu today!

(Feel free to replace "Ubuntu" with the name of your favourite FreeNIX: Slackware, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Debian, Fedora, Mandriva, you name it)

Re:Slashdot pleads with users to adopt Linux now.. (1, Troll)

klingens (147173) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577133)

Annoy a billionaire... Install Ubuntu today!

All you do with that, is pleasing another billionaire than usually.

Re:Slashdot pleads with users to adopt Linux now.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577141)

Hey. This would be a good slogan for a T-Shirt! ;-)

What about the poor interface? (1, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576985)

What about the studies that have demonstrated that the new interface actually cuts down on productivity?

I don't want to sound like a fanboi here, but I'm more excited about the emerging technologies in KDE4.

Windows XP was actually a pretty decent OS. I found on the same hardware it could be configured to run better than Win 2k, it was relatively stable, easy to use, etc.

My biggest beef with XP was how poorly it was configured out of the box.

Given the poor usability issues, poor performance, lack of drivers, application breakage etc, the financial cost, I just can't see a single compelling reason to get Vista.

I used a beta for less than two days and was really put off.

I'll stick to my XP/Gentoo dual-boot, thanks.

Re:What about the poor interface? (1, Troll)

BlueTrin (683373) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577257)

What about the studies that have demonstrated that the new interface actually cuts down on productivity?

Do you want to install the interface studies driver ?
[Cancel] [Allow]

*WTF, drivers to read a study ???* *Clicking*

Are you really sure ?
[Cancel] [Allow]


Reaaaaaaaally ?
[Cancel] [Allow]


I'm not kidding, I am gonna replace the old drivers with the new ones !!!
[Cancel] [Allow]


*Loading the study about how Vista users save time with the new interface*

Sure (4, Informative)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576991)

Or possibly people are avoiding upgrading because when they test Vista, they discover that the interface is the most convoluted and annoying one ever developed. Windows Vista -- now with 500% more confirmation dialogs and notification tooltips! Because we don't care about real security, we just want to make sure when something breaks we can blame the user for clicking on the confirmation.

We have several people who've bought new laptops in the past few months, and every one of them is infuriated at how annoying the interface is. I certainly couldn't train a computer novice to use it yet, because it makes no real sense where anything is or under what conditions entire sections of the interface are hidden and revealed.

Now I get it... (1)

superash (1045796) | more than 7 years ago | (#19576993)

SP1 might make things more complicated with even more bugs which will make more Microsoft Vista users to ditch it and migrate to Linux. Better get more people invest now, than hear more bad reviews after SP1 release. Smartass(for the dumb) marketing department.
Thank you. But i'll pass.

XP Sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19576997)

If I got a new computer I'd sooner use Vista than XP. Unfortunately, using Windows 2000 is not as much of an option these days as support has dropped off both from hardware vendors and Microsoft.

Of course a close second would be Server 2003. Either way you have to spend a day or two turning shit off (or on with Server 2003). Pain in the ass.

I am so happy I switched to Linux.

What's in it for me? (4, Insightful)

jimicus (737525) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577007)

There are two possible groups of people here. Possibly three:

1. Those who already have a PC, are reasonably knowledgeable about it and are quite happy with how it's all running. What's in it for them? Re-learn how to do a bunch of tasks only to wind up with exactly the same as what they've already got but with a few extra bells and whistles.
2. Businesses. What's the benefit? Microsoft likes to peddle things like "increased productivity", mainly because it's impossible to measure and hence impossible to argue with. I would, however, point out that "the IT department having to make sure that everything runs on Vista, scripts don't break and users don't get confused with an interface change" doesn't increase anyone's productivity.
3. Those who either don't have a PC, or do but are unhappy with it (probably because it's dog slow under the weight of all the spyware, but they don't know that). This is the only group which may go with Vista - but they'll go with whatever the PFY in the store tells them to go with. If Apple started offering sufficiently generous kickbacks to retail partners, you can bet that their market share would go up quite a bit.

Re:What's in it for me? (1)

LarsWestergren (9033) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577373)

Those who already have a PC, are reasonably knowledgeable about it and are quite happy with how it's all running. What's in it for them?

For me, games, which is the only reason I keep a Windows XP partition. Currently only a few upcoming games, and only action games at that, require Vista. However, if this becomes the norm in a two-three years, I either have to give up gaming or install Vista.

And no, "dude, get a console!" is not an option, for several reasons, the strongest being that games I like to play are almost only available on PC.

So I may eventually get Vista, though I don't like it. It doesn't cost much, but I don't like to support Microsoft because I dislike their business practices.


Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577009)

QUICK! kick 'em while they're down!

Dual Boot (1)

jlebrech (810586) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577015)

That's why somebody invented dual booting, all Vista capable machines should come with a dual boot with Linux for the backwards compatibility with peripherals.

It'll be a win-win situation whereby people will either drop their legacy applications/peripherals to use Vista or (cope with/get used to/learn to love) Linux and not need windows so much.

Dual booting on all OEMs by default FTW!!

Nah, I'm gonna wait 'ntill the first pirated ver (2, Funny)

hoyeru (1116923) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577039)

thank you very much

People hate change (4, Interesting)

seanellis (302682) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577045)

Unless the thing that they are changing to solves a real problem for them, then they will not change. And having transparent title bars on windows is not a real problem for most people. No amount of begging will convince people that they have a problem when they don't.

Once again, Microsoft proves that its previous versions are its biggest competitor.

Re:People hate change (1)

LehiNephi (695428) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577323)

No amount of begging will convince people that they have a problem when they don't.

Tell that to the pharmaceutical companies who market prescription drugs to the common person who has as much medical knowledge as a turnip. "Ask your doctor about [insert drug name here]" Granted, that's advertising vs. outright begging, but even begging works if you look pitiful enough (telethons).

Drink the Kool-Aid© (2, Insightful)

oDDmON oUT (231200) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577051)

It's good for you.

It would also demonstrate, yet again, that in the world of technology marketing trumps quality every time.

"Upgrade" to Vista? (0)

bbroerman (715822) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577053)

Over my cold lifeless body! Seriously, once I can no longer run XP, I will be moving to Ubuntu most likely. I already have a couple arch servers at the house, and regularly work with RedHat and Solaris at work... Nothing in my way of a Linux/Unix shift.

they think they should wait for a service pack (2, Insightful)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577055)

I'm not - I'm just waiting for the next OS ( )

Vista doesn't do anything (for me) that XP doesn't do - it just costs more, requires a more expensive PC and supports less of my hardware (and probably software). Result!

Re:they think they should wait for a service pack (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577101)

It actually doesn't cost more. Vista Business costs the same XP Pro does, Vista Basic costs the same as XP Home. Vista Home Premium and Ultimate are equivalents of things that were OEM only before, so its tricky to compare on that side though.

Re:they think they should wait for a service pack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577107)

Why wait the "next OS" is already here []

Why Microsoft Fears Virtualisation (5, Insightful)

nurhussein (864532) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577067)

Part of Microsoft's success is the fact that Windows is everywhere, it provides a foundation for everything else to run on the majority of desktops, and if you want to use popular desktop programs, more often than not it's going to be Windows-only, and thus whether you like Windows or not you have to use it. Windows was in your face, all the time, and it can't be discarded (dual-booting is an option but it's actually rather inconvenient, especially if you want to run two things that require two different OSs at the same time).

Cheap, efficient virtualisation totally throws most of the downsides of multiple OS booting out the window (no pun intended). Suddenly you could run Linux or OS X as your desktop and totally ignore Windows until you need to run a Windows program. Windows thus goes from the Master Control Program of your computer to just some shared library that a program loads in order to run. This represents a loss of control over the user, and the one thing Microsoft fears the most is the loss of power, regardless of how small the loss is.

Microsoft loves your money, but it loves your obedience even more. Being able to discard Windows from your sight when you don't require it means you're not being a good little Windows user. Therefore, you deserve to be punished, hence the licensing restrictions.

Re:Why Microsoft Fears Virtualisation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577327)

if you want to use popular desktop programs, more often than not it's going to be Windows-only, and thus whether you like Windows or not you have to use it.

So you're saying that more than half of popular programs are Windows-only? I use lots of popular programs and have no reason at all to run Windows.

Windows != OS , Windows == Marketing Platform (1)

geggam (777689) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577077)

Not real sure why anyone would try to get work accomplished on a platform that is designed to slow the productivity to a crawl while inundating its users with business offers. Windows isn't an Operating System, it is a Marketing Platform designed to emulate an Operating System.

Personally (0, Troll)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577083)

Some people may be waiting for compatibility fixes or Service Pack 1 before they upgrade to Vista.

Others, including myself, are simply waiting for Hell to freeze over.

Microsoft quick fix (0)

xednieht (1117791) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577089)

Drop the vista kernel, lay the interface on top of Linux like what Apple did and join 'mainstream' computing again. Get with the program bill, lose the lawyers, get more geeks.

There are no incentives (0)

Xentan (1089097) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577131)

...for me to change from XP. There are no benefits in it for me. XP works for me at the moment. I wont fix anything that isnt broke.

Well.. (1)

ardor (673957) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577145)

assuming game developers jump on DX10, then gamers will be among the few who will upgrade to Vista.
Now, this is a chicken-and-egg situation. Since few adopt Vista, devs still write games for DX9. So, what if the killer feature DX10 fails?

Nonono, we don't fear incompatibility (3, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577149)

We just loathe DRM, we don't want a system that's by 20% slower than its predecessor and we know that any MS OS so far has not been worthy the label "release version" before it had a "SP2" attached to its name. That's pretty much all that keeps us from using it. Aside of the "why the heck should I?" question, based on the fact that Vista offers nothing XP didn't already (and that actually offers some kind of additional value to the user). Or, in case you don't care about WiFi, 2k is already all you need.

What it comes down to is that Vista has no redeeming feature, aside of the forcefully opened incompatibilities with the previous versions. And so far, those incompatibilities don't really strike. For example, DX10 isn't really out the door yet, so there are no DX10 only games on the market.

It's not that we don't want the shiny, we just don't want the ugly. And so far, I see nothing in Vista that really offers any value for me. I don't care about the flashy interface, it's probably the first thing turned off to reclaim at least part of the performance hit. I don't care about the pointless "allow or deny pseudo security", actually I see more harm than good in it. I sure as hell care about DRM and I don't want it. Yes, yes, DRM doesn't keep me from using my old content and "enables" me to use all that DRM crippled junk, but the way I see it, if there is nobody able to see DRM crippled content, DRM crippled content is an Edsel. If people can't use it, people won't buy it, and studios will be forced to pull the plug or suffer even worse than they already do due to DRM. Either's fine with me.

So far, MS failed to show me any compelling reason to use Vista over XP or 2k. So, why shell out my dough for a new system if it doesn't give me anything I want that I don't already have with the old one?

Ok, let's be fair, let's be constructive (2, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577293)

Sorry for replying to myself. But reading that again I heard my old boss yell in the back of my head "if you can't offer a solution, don't mention the problem". Ok. Let's see what could've been something that could have convinced people that Vista is the better thing.

Many people have MP3 players. A library with an API MP3 player manufacturers can hook into for easy transfer would have offered a lot of value. Interoperability is the current big thing in the home computer market, people enjoy plugging everything and their toaster into the computer, so how about catering to that crowd? A co-op with Nokia or Sony-Ericson would've also gone a long way, with libraries to easily transfer data from mobile phones to computers and back. More and more people have USB drives and sticks, so an easy way to (automatically) sync between stick/external drive and harddrive would've been nice. Or how about a standardized library for photo and movie editing tool makers that allows them to easily suck data from a digital camera, similar to what twain used to be for scanners?

Even if all that and more can be fairly easily already accomplished, it often takes an additional step between raw data and processed, and many people would be happy to eliminate that. Comfort and easy of use has always been a selling point for MS, and with Vista they are definitly moving away from that. And it shows in the sales.

But MS, I am proceeding with conficence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577175)

I am proceeding to continue using Windows XP on my machine that needs to be Windows, and using FreeBSD on my notebook and main desktop!

Shame on Microsoft (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577185)

There are plenty of issues of Vista and Microsoft is painfully aware of this. Now, I like Windows as a product overall, but Vista is just not mature enough to use in a production environment. And I'm fine with this. Vista is a technology release, breaking lots of new ground and hence it's hard to get right the first time.

The reason people stay away from Vista is because they experienced actual issues with either compatibility, performance or reliability. Or they know someone who did. It's not just a bunch of myths.

One would expect Microsoft would make some marking noise on Vista's consumer release in January (as any company would) and then quietly back down and start working on fixing Vista so at SP1/2 it becomes a decent replacement for XP. But naaah, "proceed with confidence". Shame on Microsoft, are they really so disconnected from their customers.

If they keep this style, no wonder more companies completely switch away from Windows for their desktop clients, be it on Mac (most of them), BSD or Linux.

Re:Shame on Microsoft (4, Insightful)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577273)

Vista is no more of a "technology" release, as putting a spoiler and spinners on a honda is a "innovative" improvement in style.

If they were really minded towards science and altruistic academic improvements, their OS would consume less resources [and power] yet still get the same amount done as before. It would be more standards compliant to make development cheaper and more reliable, it would embrace all vendors of software, even the OSS side, etc.

Vista, in my mind, is basically a GUI change [not upgrade, just change] and explorer.exe re-write.

Put this in your noodle and ponder. Windows is the least standards compliant OS in the world [that is in current production], and YET they can't even keep their own software working with it. That is, they hold all of the cards and still can't make a play. That speaks volumes as to the quality of the shite software they put out.

When something like OpenOffice breaks in Fedora, you could say, well it's not Fedora's fault, they're aiming at UNIX/Linux standards by using industry standard libraries [X11, motif, glibc, etc, etc, etc], and the software just didn't work. But when people write for the proprietary Windows libraries and then Vista goes and breaks it all, that's just amazingly shotty engineering.


The best part (1)

niceone (992278) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577195)

The summary left out the best bit of the article:

Despite the "fact-rich" materials being designed for both "partners and customers", the link supplied by Microsoft goes to a website which is available only to computer makers who are prepared to sign up to a non-disclosure agreement.

Heh, fact-rich materials that they won't show us.

Re:The best part (1)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577337)

Heh, fact-rich materials that they won't show us

Yeah, and Linux is "violating" 265 of their patents. Which they won't show us. Beginning to see a pattern here? They are the great all powerful Microsoft. We should just blindly accept what they say. Well, MS won't be the first company brought down by corporate hubris.

App compatibility is the key (2, Informative)

tenjin (152147) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577211)

I've had experience with Vista both as an upgrade and as a supplied install on a new PC (Both Dell machines).

Bottom line - there is not enough support from key apps out there to make an upgrade to Vista sensible right now, and general performance kills it for most people.


- Poor nVidia support
- Nero 6 doesn't work, so you need to buy an upgrade
- Peripheral devide support is poor, but again, you can buy upgrades
- deskop indexing kills the machine
- Aero glass keeps breaking due to app clashes (e.g. Quicktime)
- The overwhelming number of confirmation pop-ups is an extremely irrating feature. One struggles to imagine how Microsoft designers feel this is a good model. Most users won't understand the questions being asked (or the implications) and will simply keeping clicking "allow" until the windows stop popping up.

Both machines now back on XP Pro and working very well.


What use is DRM for a scanner? (1)

geoff lane (93738) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577223)

Vista is out for many people as they just don't see why they have to buy new scanners etc just because they are a couple of years old and vista drivers are not available.

If Microsoft had any sense they would create a driver wrapper that would allow existing XP peripheral drivers to operate in Vista. After all, what use is DRM for a scanner?

Re:What use is DRM for a scanner? (2, Funny)

anarxia (651289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577291)

To prevent you from printing the movie frame by frame and scanning the frames in another PC.

Compatability? (1)

Targon (17348) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577245)

I have a customer with several HP Officejet 6110 all-in-one printers. They work perfectly, but features such as the scan-to button on the printers will NOT work under Vista while they do work under XP. HP has indicated that they will not be adding this feature to their Vista drivers for the 6110, and that customers will need to buy a newer model to add the features that do not work under Vista.

So, people SHOULD be concerned about compatibility with 3+ year old equipment. Then again, if you have a computer that is 4 or more years old to begin with, then it would make more sense to replace the computer than to upgrade their older machine to Vista.

Vista isn't bad if you are dealing with new equipment that is supported by the manufacturer, but it's NOT a good idea if your machine is older. Needing to add more system memory and/or replace the video card to run Vista "properly" would be a good reason not to upgrade the OS.

If M$ wants me to run Vista... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577255)

...then they can drop the price below $100 and give me copies for my computer, my laptop, and my wife's computer.

I don't need this buggy, OVER-PRICED, DRM'd, over-hyped piece of bloatware. XP does what I need it to do and there's no reason to go to Vista. When an OS is more restrictive than a straightjacket, more bloated than Rosanne, Rosie O'Donnell, and an entire convention of over-fed, beached whales, and more expensive than any other component in the system (especially with the economy in the toilet) what does M$ expect? They don't have a great track record as it is...

Microsoft is losing it (3, Interesting)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577265)

I've some evidence.

Evidence 1: Their fact-rich sheet for "partners and customers" is in fact locked to only computer making companies who sign an NDA O_o. Yes, their "confident list" of reasons to use Vista is actually a secret. That makes me wanna switch to Vista for sure!

Evidence 2: How Microsoft explained that they changed their mind back on virtualization of Basic/Home? "The company said virtualization presents inherent security risks". Oh... My... God... They aren't even TRYING. What kind of damn security risk are we talking about? That people will buy cheap Windows Basic and run it on Parallels on Mac, isn't that the one. Pathetic.

What is Vista's new features anyway? (1)

speaker of the truth (1112181) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577279)

So what are the new features found in Vista anyway? The only ones I've heard of are:
* Improved security (with many here at slashdot doubting its effectiveness, although we're typically anti-Microsoft here so its hardly surprising).
* Built in search that looks through documents as well as document names.

Is that it? Because all I've been hearing about it (outside of slashdot) is people having trouble with it.

Thanks, but no thanks... (3, Insightful)

bobwoodard (92257) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577283)

First, why upgrade my computer's OS when MS's own evaluation app warns me that my installed apps won't run or will need upgrades (my hardware level is just fine)? Secondly, I've been walking my parents through the process of learning Vista (lots of: where's this, how do we do that, why won't the printer work, etc), after they got a laptop with it, and I don't see the need? Sure it looks pretty, but I need to work, not sit back back and think about how pretty the desktop is.

But, but... how can this be?! (4, Insightful)

FridayBob (619244) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577287)

Why, only about a month ago, we were being told that Vista licenses were selling like hotcakes, with an astounding 40 million [] being sold in the first 100 days -- the fastest launch in history!

Just like ESR says of Plan 9 (4, Informative)

andkaha (79865) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577297)

In The Art of Unix Programming [] , ESR says about Plan 9 [] that

Plan 9 failed simply because it fell short of being a compelling enough improvement on Unix to displace its ancestor. Compared to Plan 9, Unix creaks and clanks and has obvious rust spots, but it gets the job done well enough to hold its position. There is a lesson here for ambitious system architects: the most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough.
I think all operating system providers are going to walk into this sooner or later. Sooner if they have a big user base already, later if they serve a niche. At some point people will be happy with what they have, and the software industry will have to come up with more ways to waste CPU cycles to get them to upgrade to the next big thing.

Here goes: (0, Troll)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577303)

Bill Gates is the devil.
Down with the evil empire.
Ubuntu is so EASY, my grandmother uses it all the time!
Hmm.. what else...
Oh yeah, I have a picture of Linus in my whackin' stash.

What Microsoft can do for me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577325)

And I'm pleading with Microsoft to kiss my ass.

I'm waiting until SP481 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577339)

I'm not waiting until SP1 to use Vista, I'm waiting until SP481 comes out...

What does one have to do with the other? (1)

MLS100 (1073958) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577341)

Seriously, how many home users actually bought Vista to run under VMWare? I'd be willing to bet most had no clue about Vista's VMWare policy. Currently, the major interest in virtualization is in the corporate sector.

Slow home user adoption is due to the shaky hardware and software support. This will only change when enough pressure is put on these manufacturers to support it. Thus the only thing that will fix Vista's problems is... adoption of Vista.
In the previous generation, the deep-seated OS was Win98, and it was such garbage that XP looked like a godsend. Now, XP is the deep-seated OS, and it is nowhere near as terrible as 98 was. So what will MS do to move consumers?

Interesting times.

bad plan (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19577353)

I really wouldn't push consumers to Vista yet - it simply isn't ready.

I've spent most of this week trying to set up a Vista machine for one of the sales team in the place where I work. I've been genuinely startled at how bad it is - basic stuff simply doesn't work. For instance it randomly looses its network connection, or refuses to connect to a standard Windows network, for no discernible reason. IE7 crashes on start-up (this is on a brand new laptop with the manufacturers default install - probably caused by an add-on crashing but there is no quick way to determine which one), randomly sends incorrect machine ID information to the database server so it looses its DB connection periodically. And I'm getting really strange SQL errors reported in the main application which make very little sense. Oh, and it takes t takes about 5 minutes to be responsive on a boot, and about 3 minutes to shut-down. Vista isn't ready for serious use - stick with XP if you need a Windows machine.

Bad reports of Vista (2, Interesting)

Lars Clausen (1208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577359)

My brother, who's a "travelling tech support" guy, has had the "opportunity" to help a number of people with brand new (not upgraded) Vista installations, and his recommendation is to steer well clear of Vista. I'm just waiting for the flood of cheap graphics cards that are not Vista-compatible but got produced anyway.


Cutting through the baloney. (1)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 7 years ago | (#19577369)

My opinion: First, "Vista" is just a name. Actually, Windows Vista is a new version of Windows NT 5.1, or whatever. Giving a completely new name to a new version is a marketing trick to take advantage of people with little technical knowledge about computers.

Second, we were burned badly with the first version of Windows XP. We lost huge amounts of time; the cost of the OS was trivial next to the total cost of ownership.

We found that Windows XP on first release was VERY buggy. It was necessary to upgrade because our installations of Windows 98, all patches applied, were self-destructing. The registry or the file system would become corrupted and that tended to be too expensive to fix.

So, our rule now is the same as it was before: Unless forced by circumstances, never upgrade to a new version of Windows until the second service pack is released. Let other people have the expensive grief.

Third, read the forums. People are having LOTS of problems with Vista.

Busy now, have to wait to post more.
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