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Nintendo's Market Value Briefly Tops Sony's

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the ballet-of-the-titans dept.

Businesses 137

GameDaily reports on news from Reuters; today for the first time Nintendo outpaced Sony's market value. Note that this isn't Sony's games wing, but the entirety of the Sony corporation. Investor confidence spurred by brisk sales of the DS and Wii pushed Nintendo (briefly) into the top ten earners in the nation of Japan, with such rarefied organizations as Honda, Toyota, and Canon. "Nintendo's shares rose to a record high 46,350 yen in the morning, increasing its overall market value to 6.57 trillion yen ($53 billion), which allowed it to surpass Sony's market capitalization for a time. The company's shares, however, finished the day a bit lower putting Nintendo back in 11th place behind Sony, but still ahead of Panasonic maker Matsushita, whose sales are over eight times larger than Nintendo's. Nintendo's market value closed at 6.39 trillion yen on Monday, just below Sony's 6.48 trillion yen."

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137 comments

Great news (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640581)

Especially since I bought Nintendo stock when I saw Sony repeatedly shooting itself in the foot.

Re:Great news (1)

MadUndergrad (950779) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640665)

Bah, would that I had had the money to invest in Nintendo a year ago, when I very much wanted to.

Re:Great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641251)

The stock market is no place for idiots or fanboys.

Though in your case since your just making shit up, just take it as some future advice for when you move out of your mom's basement and actually have money from a real job to invest.

Re:Great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641507)

I dunno, I mean given how deep the Wii has buried the PS3, I wouldn't be surprised if his mom were now living in his basement.

Re:Great news (4, Insightful)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642563)

Actually, its 90% idiots and fanboys. You make your money by predicting how the idiots and fanboys will react.

In this case it wasn't fanboyism. I saw one company about to go out on a limb with an innovative new product. I saw another company about to go out with an overpriced product that didn't provide much more than their last generation. I saw a lot of buzz among the gaming community about the innovative new product. I decided I had room in my portfolio for some risk, took it, and made a decent chunk of change.

Re:Great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19642915)

"I saw one company about to go out on a limb with an innovative new product. I saw another company about to go out with an overpriced product that didn't provide much more than their last generation."

Wait... which one is Sony and which one is Nintendo? Paying $200 for an overclocked gamecube that doesn't provide much over the past generation other than a magic wand gimmick seems overpriced to me -- and a console with all the connectivity and processing power of a high-end desktop sure seems innovative, even if that's not what you meant to imply.

Re:Great news (1)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643617)

Yeah, someone doesn't sound just slightly angry they wern't Nintendo's target demographic.

Re:Great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19643627)

Silly PS3 fanchildren just can't get over the fact that the Wii is successful.

Re:Great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19643693)

Cry more sony fanboy.

Re:Great news (1)

TeraCo (410407) | more than 7 years ago | (#19645903)

Paying $200 for an overclocked gamecube that doesn't provide much over the past generation other than a magic wand gimmick seems overpriced to me -- and a console with all the connectivity and processing power of a high-end desktop sure seems innovative, even if that's not what you meant to imply.

Well now, one of these is making just under a hojillion dollars a millisecond in profit, and the other is languishing on store shelves. Regardless of which one you think is 'innovative' and 'overpriced', the parent made a decision that is going to net him a nice chunk of cash. That's the bottom line.

Re:Great news (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 7 years ago | (#19646129)

I think one of the strongest selling points for the Wii is that there are modchips already available. And you can download and burn games onto DVDRs.

Its likely that once the PS3s copy protection has been broken, their sales will increase drastically (much more so than a price cut would induce.) Because even without the relative availability and affordability of bluray burners, being able to easily swap out the harddrive (or hack the interface to fit a full size 3.5" SATA drive) will work.

This also seemed to be the case with the Xbox 360 hacked drive firmware and the PSP downgrades. I'm not sure if anyone has tabulated any sales figures, pre or post each consoles DRM being defeated, but I'm willing to wager those numbers would look quite interesting.

I'm sure this is a bad thing (tm) for software publishers and developers, but as far as the competition for the number of consoles sold goes, having your DRM cracked = console sales.

yes, but A few questions and comments.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19642711)

Will nintendos stock markey cap ne enough to buy and power a beowolf cluster of Wii's?

In Soviet Russia Wii Buys You

All your market cap are belong to Nintedo..

Damn nintedos market cap is as big as Go4tse Now [goatse.ca]

I for one welcome our new market overlords

Re:Great news (1)

riskeetee (1039912) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642999)

In the US, the stock is traded as NTDOY (on Yahoo, it's NTDOY.PK http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NTDOY.PK [yahoo.com] ). It's on the "Pink Sheets http://www.pinksheets.com/about/index.jsp [pinksheets.com] ," as an OTC (over-the-counter) traded stock.

NTDOY stock represents 1/8 of a share of Nintendo stock traded on the Tokyo stock exchange, NTDOF represents one share. Most people trade the NTDOY, which is currently trading at 45.85.

Explains what step 2 was (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640587)

in the old nugget:
  1. Buy Nintendo stock
  2. ???
  3. Profit!

Re:Explains what step 2 was (3, Funny)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641031)

If you are a corporate execute at Sony's console division:

1. Buy Nintendo stock
2. Open your mouth
3. Profit!

Re:Explains what step 2 was (1)

CarnivoreMan (827905) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641105)

That ref doesnt really apply here.. There is no unknown magical step #2 like between the underpants and profit.

Do one thing (2)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640595)

and do it WELL. Just seems to me to be a better business model than to try to do everything and not be able to focus on anything.

Course, I'm a Ninty fanboy, so I'm slightly biased...

Re:Do one thing (0, Offtopic)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640775)

Yeah, well, wasn't that GMC's slogan? Apparently, they take "one thing" to mean "make cars and run the world's largest health insurance plan". Go fig.

Re:Do one thing (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641075)

Well, I'd argue they didn't exactly adhere to the "well" part... But that's a whole nother debate, one I'd probably lose simply for lack of an knowledge on the topic.

Re:Do one thing (3, Funny)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642457)

Nonsense. GM runs a really good loan business. They just have to work out how to make their loss leaders (cars) a bit more efficiently.

Re:Do one thing (1)

TheGeneration (228855) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642555)

Well, I'd argue they didn't exactly adhere to the "well" part... But that's a whole nother debate, one I'd probably lose simply for lack of an knowledge on the topic.

I think it's a good point though. GMC really didn't do the car making part "well" anymore. They've been catch up with the Japanese and the Europeans in the "Quality" department for decades now. American cars are boring, uncool, have a reputation for not lasting.

The first thing I notice when I sit down in a car is the console. I want a console that LOOKS NICE. I can get a 20k Japanese car with an amazing console that visually is beautiful, I get a stylish speedometer, color matched interior, and a radio that looks intricate and provides a lot of functionality. I can buy a 20k American car and I get a console with a red stick mechanical speedometer, a radio with buttons that are each 2 inches by 1 inch, and knobs that are 2 inches across, with an LCD display that shows NOTHING more than a GIANT display of numbers for the radio station I'm listening to. NONE of the interior bits in American cars are color matched, none of the features wow you with their creativity in solving basic ergonomic and spatial problems.

I have to admit the Chevy Malibu I drove recently was a nice fresh breath of air. I could have sworn it wasn't an American car, it's interior was actually stylish.

Re:Do one thing (1)

Grave (8234) | more than 7 years ago | (#19646037)

GMC is a division of GM, not GM itself. GMC sells more trucks than any non-American brand. They might not have had the greatest interiors until recently, but their trucks are very reliable and capable. When it comes to trucks, those things matter far more than a stylish interior (which GM as a whole has been making huge strides in). So I'd say GMC's slogan is fairly accurate.

Re:Do one thing (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642817)

That's ok because in Nintendos case they do consoles, games and pokémon (games, consoles, toys, furry animals, series, movies, ...)

Rush Change (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640615)

Big money goes around Japan?

Re:Rush Change (1)

xero314 (722674) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640799)

Being one of the few to get the reference, I have to give you props for pulling that at.

Re:Rush Change (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643167)

Nice... Always great to see a Rush reference. New album is amazing, btw... been listening to it non-stop.

Time to short? (3, Insightful)

jandrese (485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640617)

Sounds to me like Nintendo might be a bit overvalued. The Wii is great, but the games have just been trickling out for it and people are going to lose some of their enthusiasm for the system before too long. I'm not an investor, but I can't see how they can maintain that sort of overinflated valuation for too long.

Re:Time to short? (4, Insightful)

Altus (1034) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640709)


yes, games have been few and far between for the Wii, but the console has sold like hotcakes. This implies that games will be released for it in the future.

A lot of game development companies bet against the Wii and that was a poor bet for them to make. I'm sure many of them would like to go back and release on the Wii just to get a crack at the installed base. I doubt they will make the same mistake now that the Wii is on the market and outselling the other consoles.

That said, Nintendo is probably close to the peak of its value and would not make a fantastic investment right now. Even if the console continues to sell well and the new games come out and Nintendo is fantastically successful, how much higher can the stock reasonably go?

Re:Time to short? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640853)

"how much higher can the stock reasonably go?"

no need for reason. this is the stockmarket, after all.

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641267)

A lot of game development companies bet against the Wii and that was a poor bet for them to make.
Why? Where are all of the third party titles for Wii that are making tons of cash? Installed base is not enough to guarantee sales, and remember that PS2 still has everything else beat in that department.

Re:Time to short? (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642275)

Even in the case where there are no current third party titles that sold significantly (although I believe titles such as Rayman contest this), the statement can still be true.

If we assume that every third party publisher of repute and skill ignored the Wii or otherwise gave it passing attention, then it would make perfect sense that there are no (or very few) notable third party titles. Almost everyone missed the boat.

Install base doesn't guarantee sales, and I'm sure most companies are taking into consideration the demographics of the three consoles when they choose which to support, but it does push sales higher. A hypothetical install base of 10 million PS3s is almost certain to have more sales than a hypothetical 1 million. It's more blurry across different consoles, but the fundamental principle is the same. A larger installbase is a larger market, which can support larger sales.

Re:Time to short? (2, Insightful)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640887)

Sounds to me like Nintendo might be a bit overvalued. The Wii is great, but the games have just been trickling out for it and people are going to lose some of their enthusiasm for the system before too long. I'm not an investor, but I can't see how they can maintain that sort of overinflated valuation for too long.

The funny thing is, they've survived thus far on classics such as mario, zelda and so on. Why would you think they suddenly need a river of games to keep gamers interested.

It's not about quantity here. PS3 is rolling out 380 games by end of next year (they say). How many of those will really matter.

That said, with the number of sales going into the Wii right now, I can see this sparkling some newfound interest in the platofrm in the biggest companies in the market (such as EA).

Now of course, I agree Nintendo is overvalued right now. Somewhat. But I think Wii will do just fine at the same time.

Re:Time to short? (5, Informative)

DaAdder (124139) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640947)

Games have been trickling out since most of the game producers are of the wait-and-see variety.

The Wii's success was soon evident to everyone though and most of the large game makers jumped on the bandwageon. However since games aren't produced in an instant, you'll see an avalanche of games released for the Wii, starting late '07, but mostly throughout, and towards the end of, '08.

News is surfacing that some companies are shifting focus from Sony to Nintendo entirely:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/the-tide/big-japanese-pub lishers-shift-from-sony-to-nintendo-271785.php [kotaku.com]

My guess is that this'll keep happening unless/until the PS3 somehow manages to pick it sales up significantly and reach some form of critical mass.

Re:Time to short? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640979)

Overvalued. More like watch out below...

I just picked up a 1080p 37 inch set for just under a grand. And my Wii looks like complete crap. Doesn't really matter because I haven't touched the system more than a few token minutes over the past few months. Time to start shopping for a real next gen system.

The Wii reminds me of one of those days were you wake up from a night of drinking and go WTF was I thinking when I bought this thing. I could have gotten just as much enjoyment out of the system if I had played it for ten minutes over at a friends house.

Even the big games on the way now look nothing more than basically the same old GameCube games from last gen with some Wiimote controls bolted on. Wow, you can point instead of using your thumb...whoopie!

I guess you have to hand it to Nintendo for pulling a fast one over on so many people. I was pure genius to sell essentially their same old system with the gimmicky controller and a name change to so many suckers. We'll see how much longer it lasts, I can't think of a single other Wii owner who doesn't talk about their system sitting there gathering dust for the past few months.

Re:Time to short? (4, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641311)

Hi,

My kids play the Wii constantly. I play it when I get the time to. There, now you've heard from a Wii owner whose system isn't gathering dust.

If you are the kind of person who is out buying 1080p TV sets when they still cost as much as they do, then you're probably also the kind of person who will spend $600 on a game console so you can have the most powerful system on the market. If that's you, then go buy a PS3. Technophiles are not the target market for the Wii.

If you didn't like any of Nintendo's previous offerings, why would you think you would like the Wii? Did you just get one because everyone else was, and you wanted to be part of the crowd? Or did you pretend to get one just so you could troll Slashdot?

I agree with you that Nintendo's stock will fall (although probably not plummet), but not for the reasons you state.

Re:Time to short? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641593)

> My kids play the Wii constantly. I play it when I get the time to.

Let me guess...people refer to your children as 'special'...

Shouldn't be so harsh, it is nice to get input from the trailer trash/Walmart shopping bought a Wii with welfare check crowd. That demo has always been a key indicator to the future of the console market.

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19642371)

Shouldn't be so harsh, it is nice to get input from the trailer trash/Walmart shopping bought a Wii with welfare check crowd. That demo has always been a key indicator to the future of the console market
Okay, how about the bought my console at Best Buy, have enough money to live in a house, make more money then a whiney AC on /. who probably is jealous because of the lack of a Wii. I make enough to afford a nice car too, but hell, if I didn't still manage to find money to buy a Wii and time to play it in between work. Stupid trolls.

Re:Time to short? (4, Interesting)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642463)

Hi, I have a 46" HD TV, the sound system to go with it, and an Xbox 360 to play on it. I haven't touched the Xbox except to play movies for some time. Maybe once in the past 6 months (when Armored Core 4 came out).

I also have a Wii.

The Wii is not as impressive graphically as the 360 on the HDTV, but I can not say it looks like crap. It's decent, not "Wow" but decent. The 360 and PS3 are "Wow" when it comes to graphics, I'll give them that much.

However, I play my Wii far more than my other consoles. That's not to say I spend oodles of time playing it, but it garners more of my attention.

If you want a system that looks like crap on an HDTV, get a PS2. Several of my games were literally unplayable because of how it was displayed. It was visibly different than how it would look on an SDTV to the point of being a garbled mess. Unless the game is explicitly HD, it's probably going to look terrible.

I doubt the GP fits into the "trailer trash" stereotype anymore than I do. There are far better arguments to make against the Wii than ad hominem attacks. You're intelligent enough to spell, you should be intelligent enough to come up with something more substancial than pure insults.

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19644669)

after reading digg and then reading this post makes me remember why I love Slashdot

Re:Time to short? (1)

zstlaw (910185) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642809)

At a party recently a group of well-off yuppie gamers with a couple game developers thrown in mostly shrugged at a topic of the PS3 and Resistance Fall of Man, then got really excited about the merits of the technology behind the 360's Gears of War. I think this shows how little the PS3 has done to catch its core demographic of serious gamers with money for tech.

And yet the Wii is the social system. At the party several people played the Wii, non-gamer friends of the host picked it up and had fun with us gamers. The other systems seem to only attract the gamers. Now my friends are buying Wiis just to have around for social gatherings. Even my girlfriend's mom wants to come over and play our Wii.

I own a 1080 plasma HDTV. My girlfriend bought it for gaming. And yet the Wii games just appeal more than the other systems even despite the lower graphics. It is absurd how dominant Nintendo has been this generation. Everyone I know has a Wii. How many DS systems do I see on the subway every day?

My previous postings still stand. If the PS3 does not have a stellar Christmas the system might as well be repackaged as a low-end Blue-ray player.

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19643017)

"At a party recently a group of well-off yuppie gamers with a couple game developers thrown in mostly shrugged at a topic of the PS3 and Resistance Fall of Man, then got really excited about the merits of the technology behind the 360's Gears of War."

Why the hell would you post something so fucking inane with your real account?

If you're going to make up stories...of fuck it dimwit. Plonk!

Re:Time to short? (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 7 years ago | (#19646057)

Awww! Little fanboy's favorite system didn't do as well as they hoped? Go cry. It's funny.

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641441)

Hey look, it is the increasingly shrill Sony troll - haven't seen it in a while!

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641505)

Yes, you sir are just too smart for the rest of us. The Wii does look fantastic on a big screen HD TV and everyone really is happy with the Wii release list of games for 2007/8. And, no, HD TVs aren't rapidly falling in price and no one is buying them. And nobody ever talks about the Wiimote getting old or getting bored with their Wii.

Sir, we salute you for correcting the record.

Re:Time to short? (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642603)

Indeed, I know I'm excited about Metroid Prime: Corruption, Super Smash Bros: Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, and Manhunt 2 (damn the ESRB) etc. Glad to see others are as well. /notsarcasm

Re:Time to short? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641697)

Good innit? And you know, if he was a little bit more shrill... Or a tiny bit more desperate, or told a few more utterly transparent lies that reminded me of the Iraqi Information Minister... He might actually push me over the edge! I might have to rush out and... Oh wait, $600. Nah

Re:Time to short? (1)

valintin (30311) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641717)

One of the local bars in town has a Wii now. Credit card or a 40 dollar deposit on the controllers. No outside games; No boxing; No 18 rounds of Golf; Must use wrist strap.

That's amazing and not something that is going to suddenly fallout with players.

Re:Time to short? (1)

CCW (125740) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642635)

If you don't like it, sell it on ebay and get your money back. Better be quick too - They are still going for a premium but at some point that will change with all the wii owners being so disillusioned with their system. Then you can pick up a PS3 at discount and enjoy that HDTV resolution goodness while you watch all the great blueray movies and play whatever game it is that PS3 gamers like. Or pick up an XBox360 and watch HD-DVD movies and play whatever game it is that XBox360 gamers like.

What I don't understand is why you are complaining here about how you stupidly spent your money and trying to make it be that you were victimized by Nintendo marketing. Fix it and move on. At WORST you will be out about $10.

I would suggest that you take a hard look at what kind of lifestyle you are chasing before you get too deep into HDTV accessories, since being upset about a $250 purchase demonstrates a bit of a disconnect with your strategy.

Re:Time to short? (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640999)

I agree that Nintendo is probably overvalued, but I don't think it's because of the games. Yes the games are just trickling out, but that's fairly normal in the first year of a console's life, and we know that a lot of studios were caught off guard by the Wii's success at launch and thus will be late bringing games to the Wii. The time to worry about a lack of games will be Christmas, when having the AAA titles out will be important.

The reason I think N is probably overvalued is simply because the company's real-life size and sales are not high enough to bear out the growth that their high market cap suggests investors are speculating on. Call me old-fashioned or a dot-bomb survivor, but I just don't like seeing a company's stock riding on hype and dreams of unrestricted growth when the actual sales, while fantastic in terms of N's quarterly profit making, simply don't support that idea.

Now I don't have a lot of facts to back that up. I tried looking up Nitendo's P/E ratio (basically the metric I'm talking about) but couldn't find it. Sony has a P/E ratio of 53 according to yahoo finance, which is higher than I expected. But my post is predicated on the idea that Nintendo, being solely a games company instead of an industry behemoth like Sony (as opposed to Sony's game devision by itself), has much lower earnings and therefore an even higher p/e ratio.

You're forgetting something (1)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641181)

All the other consoles are making a loss with each sale. The Wii makes Nintendo a profit with each sale. That profit can be invested in Nintendo's own development of games which are usually very good games.

Sony will lose even more money once they lower the very high price of a PS3.

Re:Time to short? (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641265)

IMHO, they're not overvalued enough to justify much of a fall in stock price, if any at all. The DS is one of the most successful gaming systems of all time and the Wii is looking to do just as well. The DS had a rough time just after its launch with a lack of games as well. So while I think Nintendo is overvalued for now, I think that it's just a waiting game at this point, with more AAA titles from Nintendo and developer support ramping up.

Re:Time to short? (2, Interesting)

metroid composite (710698) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643059)

I always scratch my head when people say "where are the games?"

Number of Games released in 2007 according to Gamerankings:

360: 53
PS2: 45
PSP: 44
DS: 35
Wii: 26
PS3: 17

Now, as previous people have said, systems typically have a game drought right after launch. Wii and DS are also in a funny position where they tend to get more exclusives but fewer ports due to their unique controls and crap (the big reason why PSP consistently has more releases than DS). Fact is, despite being fresh off launch, Wii is already not far from DS level game release schedules. Seems healthy enough to me.

And before anyone objects with "where are the high profile games in 2007?" ...glancing at gamerankings again I see three "Mario" games (Super Paper Mario, Mario Strikers Charged, Mario Party 8), Resident Evil 4, Warioware, a collection of EA games (Tiger Woods, Godfather, SSX), Sonic, Wii Play (say what you will, but it's the best-selling Wii game this year; possibly best-selling console game actually). For a traditionally slow stretch of the year (developers all want to release their games in November) that doesn't strike me as a weak lineup in the slightest.

Re:Time to short? (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643971)

At the moment its valued more than the combined might of all of Sony. That includes Sony-BMG etc.

I find that amazing. I'm honestly surprised that the word Sony isnt worth more than all of Ninty ;)

I like the Wii and all, but Sony is a great big bloody monolith (like the ps3, heh)

So? (1)

lpangelrob (714473) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640657)

Unless either company decides to buy all its stock back or liquidate itself in the time period of three seconds... why does this matter?

Re:So? (2, Insightful)

sssssss27 (1117705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640697)

I think it more or less just puts into perspective how well Nintendo is doing and how poorly Sony is doing. People aren't going to invest in a company that they don't have faith in.

Re:So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641079)

But you are wrong, Sony isn't doing poorly. Both companies are doing well.

Re:So? (1)

xero314 (722674) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641103)

People aren't going to invest in a company that they don't have faith in.
I know I wouldn't invest in a company that was ranked 164th in last years fortune 2000 and happened to drop out of the top 10 market value in japan for mere moments. I would much rather invest in a company that was ranked 695th (down 75 from the previous year) in fortune and broke the top 10 market value in japan but couldn't maintain the rank through market closing.

Seriously I'm not knocking Nintendo, but to imply that investors are going to lose faith in Sony is foolish.

Re:So? (1)

sssssss27 (1117705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641621)

I apologize. I didn't mean to say that people are going to lose faith in Sony just that stocks are a good way of telling how people feel about particular companies. It won't give you a long term picture of the way people feel about the company but more of a day to day reflection.

Re:So? (1)

joggle (594025) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641767)

Yes, it's true that a stock value only shows the current perception of a company's worth, not its long-term value. However, it is significant IMO that Nintendo is currently considered to be roughly worth the same as all of Sony which, by any measure, is a much larger company. Way to go Nintendo!

Re:So? (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642667)

The stock value is a prediction of the long term value of a company. So Nintendo having a market cap close to or the same as Sony even though it's a smaller company in every other way means that investors expect it's long term value to be similar to Sony's.

Re:So? (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641323)

It matters because it highlights how well Nintendo is doing compared to Sony, two companies from the same region dealing with gamers. Sony is a huge company with multiple divisions as large as their gaming division. Nintendo, which just does games, briefly surpassing Sony outlines that a lot of investors believe Nintendo to be a better company (considering how the Wii and DS are making money hand over fist, I'd have to agree with them).

Damn. (1)

cromar (1103585) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640669)

'Nuf said.

and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640705)

The Funny thing is I remember people talking about Nintendo's demise because the Playstation2 and X-Box were outselling it by huge margins.

However I always thought it was ammusing that even at the low numbers of sales, Nintendos bus. model makes a profit comparable to the competitors and there huge numbers.

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641401)

Uh, give the revisionism a fucking rest.

No one ever talked about 'Nintendo's Demise'. And no one ever talked about the Xbox outselling the GameCube by a huge margin because...it didn't.

Nintendo has been profitable due to their portable success, the GameCube and N64 were insignificant to Nintendo's overall profits over the past decade or so.

But, hey, waggle, that's never going to get old...right?

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (2, Interesting)

mqduck (232646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642499)

Uh, give the revisionism a fucking rest.

No one ever talked about 'Nintendo's Demise'.

Dude, temper. I don't know where you were, but the demise of Nintendo was considered an inevitability almost the day after the Gamecube came out. Not because it sold horribly, but because all the video games happenings were on other systems. Few games, especially the interesting ones, came out on Gamecube. It seemed to guarantee that Nintendo wasn't going to do what it had to to retake the lead after the N64 sucked so hard. I certainly expected Nintendo to be gone by the next gen.

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (1)

Terminal Saint (668751) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642731)

People always talk about how much the 64 supposedly sucked, but come on: Goldeneye, Ocarina of Time, Perfect Dark, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Smash Bros...

It had some of the best damn games of all time.

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643945)

It sure didn't have quantity, but it had the quailty. Over the 4 years that anybody owns a console, before moving to the next generation, they shouldn't need any more than 10 games. I don't play every night, but I play a couple times a week, and 10 games would easily last me for 4 years. I'm still playing Mario Kart Double Dash on my Wii because that is just such a great game. I also downloaded Mario Kart 64. I think the Gamecube also had a lot of quality, although it didn't have tons of games. The 2 Metroids, Zelda WW and TP, Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros. Mario Party, Super Monkey Ball (The new one is awesome on the Wii), and many others. I don't care if other systems have 1000 games, when they all suck.

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19646387)

It had some good games, sure. Mario 64 is one of my favorite games of all time. But everything interesting was happening on the PSX (Resident Evil and Final Fantasy VII to give two examples) after the initial wave of N64 games. The reason for this was hardware. That's why I said the N64 itself sucked.

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (3, Informative)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642869)

I distinctly remember people talking about Nintendo following the Sega model and refocusing only on games. These people were not necessarily informed, but discussion did happen on a semi-regular basis across interested forums. I believe it peaked around the PSP's launch.

At the time the DS was moving slowly, and the PSP's launch was impressive. The "Revolution" was a long ways off, and its features pure speculation. Given they were last in the console market (by market share) and the PSP looked set to steal the handheld market at that time, threads hailing or lamenting the demise of Nintendo as a hardware company were not uncommon. Despite the Gamecube making pure profit, it was hard to imagine that Nintendo could continue making consoles if their market kept shrinking.

People also talked about the Xbox "vastly" outselling the Gamecube. Why? Fanboys of the time would cite specific regions, months, etc. to slant the facts. Just because it was wrong doesn't mean it wasn't spoken.

As a last note, the Gamecube and N64 profits were significant even if they may have been less than the Gameboy Advance (I'm not going to commit either way without numbers). Assuming a mere $1 profit was made on each console sold, that's $50 million in hardware sales. That's distributed over 10 years, but we're making about the harshest assumption possible about systems that were never sold at loss during their time; We're also ignoring software sales, accessories and licensing fees.

Re:and I remember people talking of Nintendos Demi (1)

Wdomburg (141264) | more than 7 years ago | (#19644737)

Um, something doesn't have to be true for people to talk about it. Plenty of people have claimed the XBox outsold the GameCube by a huge margin. They're just wrong (or exaggerating, depending on the person).

And the fan boys go nuts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640715)

Can you say "5 to 1 ratio" baby? Even Microsoft is trashing Sony... Hehehehe

wow great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640723)

In other news Wal-Mart is still worth more than $200 billion, more than Sony and Nintendo combined. Quick, someone submit a Slashdot story.

News for people who hate Sony 24/7/365. Stuff that matters.

Waggle (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19640739)

Can't stop laughing at all of the people sitting around crying that they have nothing to play on their Wii and haven't turned the thing on for months.

Nintendo has shown the world that there really is truth to the 'sucker born every minute' truism.

Waggle, heh...

Re:Waggle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19644225)

My brother is a SONY fan-boi. He has over 100 titles combined for his PS1 and PS2. He bought a PS3 in March when it was released over here (NZ) and still hasn't gotten a game for it.

Thats the real proof - there aint one AAA game out for the PS3 and its been 8 months now.

This means one thing... (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640779)

Nintendo stock is grossly overvalued right now. Good time to short it (unless of course, you happen to think that the Wii will singlehandedly replace all stereo, television, computer equipment, and all other consumer electronic on the planet, as opposed to simply being a fad game system). At a P/E of 53.78 there are a lot of really, really stupid people pretending to be investors out there.

Re:This means one thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641719)

SNE's P/E is 53.59.

So, what was your point again?

Re:This means one thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19645863)

At a P/E of 53.78 there are a lot of really, really stupid people pretending to be investors out there.

Yeah, it's called Wall Street.

Wiis Still Selling As Fast As They Make 'Em (2, Insightful)

miller60 (554835) | more than 7 years ago | (#19640969)

Here in NJ there are still console shoppers staking local game stores for new arrivals of the Wii. I was just at a local gaming store, and in the 10 minutes I was there, two shoppers came in and asked "if they had any in yet." No such luck. No inventory shortages for the PS3, tho.

Re:Wiis Still Selling As Fast As They Make 'Em (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641207)

What a fucking loser!

Give the bullshit a rest you pathetic little fanboy.

It's true. (1)

Ayanami Rei (621112) | more than 7 years ago | (#19645761)

Even if the anecdote is a fabrication. WTF is up with Big-N's production line because it is utter bullshit that I cannot pick up a system anywhere. I WANT TO PLAY MANHUNT 2 DAMNIT. AND I WANT THE EXTRA GRUESOME DEATH SCENES.
And I am going to play it on a shitty SD television through a 3rd party coax converter tuned to the wrong channel and the coax sheath freyed so it has a realistic gritty snow effect making the game even more INTENSE.

Re:Wiis Still Selling As Fast As They Make 'Em (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641333)

All that really shows is that Nintendo doesn't have good enough hardware-production facilities.

I like this [vgcats.com] to jab an irony stick into the eyes of fanboys.

Re:Wiis Still Selling As Fast As They Make 'Em (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19641445)

>I like this to jab an irony stick into the eyes of fanboys.

If potatamoto is selling GBAs and that weird green thing is selling PS3s, you're right.

Otherwise you make no sense at all.

Re:Wiis Still Selling As Fast As They Make 'Em (1)

CorSci81 (1007499) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643535)

If you mean irony in that now the Wii is the supply constrained console, I might remind you that it's outselling the PS3 and Xbox360 in pretty much every region. Even supply constrained. From that perspective it seems they aren't performing so poorly production-wise.

Just Another Manic Monday... (3, Interesting)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641405)

A) Sorry, with a P/E of 31 (in times of plenty), this is a good example of an overinflated stock with unsustainable growth. (Sony's P/E is also high at 54 since investors are betting the PS3 will take off at some point -- I think they're right, but I still don't think it's a good buy.)

B) If Nintendo doesn't either start putting out some quality titles, or convincing third parties to do it for them, the Wii excitement will quickly turn to Wiimorse. I really *want* to like this console, but I haven't found a game yet that holds my attention, or my son's, with the exception of Paper Mario, and the caveat that it was too difficult for him, and too easy/tedious for anyone with a little Mario experience under their belt. And why it doesn't support either the "classic controller" (when holding the Wiimote sideways is anything but ergonomic) or motion sensing (when that's the main selling point of the console) is beyond me. Anyway, yeah. More and better games -- and soon!

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641527)

A) Wow! Okay, I was looking for N's p/e ratio but didn't find it. While 31 is pretty high, I had assumed it would be higher that Sony's simply due to Sony being a much larger company with more revenue streams. That's not a good thing for Sony. I think both are headed for some stock readjustment.

B) Not a big deal until Christmas, at least as far as N's prospects, revunues and share price are concerned. Personally I'm struggling to find enough time to play the games I have (Zelda, Trauma Center, Godfather, Paper Mario, and of course Wii Sports), so by the time I'm actually worried about new games all the 3rd parties who have suddenly jumped on board the wii bandwagon should have something to show. If not, I'll survive until Mario Galaxies and Metroid. *involuntary shudder of pleasure*

Not to forget NGC (and NDS) games... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643649)

Also since it can play gamecube games for the people who already haven't owned a gamecube, and I guess that are plenty, there are quite a few titles for the gamecube out there aswell. Some RPGs (Baten Kaitos, err.. damn I suck at names :D, oh well, there are a few which seems nice anyway), both metroids, smash football, paper mario thousand years door, uhm, and probably more ;/.

Thought I guess the best consoles to own right now is the PS2 and the DS since both are cheaps and have lots of games. Personally I will wait with the Wii until it's cheaper, and I might get a PS3 aswell when it is much cheaper.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 7 years ago | (#19641779)

I'd rather have $250 in remorse than $700...

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643087)

Want people to take your post seriously instead of assuming you're a fanboy? Well then don't arbitrarily add $100 to the price of the thing you're biased against.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643679)

don't arbitrarily add $100 to the price of the thing you're biased against.

As far as I know, PLAYSTATION 3 does not come with a game. My Wii came with five.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643765)

If each of the games in Wii Sports counts as a game, then there are plenty of demos on the Playstation network for free download that would count equally. Either way, if assigning the value "$100" to Wii Sports isn't arbitrary I don't know what is.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643861)

Maybe he's adding in the cost of a game. The Wii already comes with one. So the games don't quite cost $100, but it'll bring the price close to $700 than it is to $600.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19642077)

Nintendo has some really big first party titles in the pipeline and increasing third party support. Even if console sales falter, they still stand to substantially increase their earnings as their attach rate increases. Given that, a P/E of 31 is still a bit high, but not unreasonably so.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (2, Interesting)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642947)

A) Definately. It's absolutely incredible that a specialized business was able to overtake a multifaceted mega-giant, even for a moment. That said, this is probably the worst time to be investing in Nintendo stock. The Wii can be a wild success and dominate the generation and the stock still might recess down to a more sane level. If you didn't jump on the boat before the launch, it's a bad idea to hop on now. It might still go up, but it'll be amazing if it doesn't come down.

B) Assuming Metroid Prime: Corruption, Super Smash Bros: Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy don't suck Nintendo should be good for 2007. I'm actually more concerned about 2008. Any developers who jumped on the Wii train after it charged out of the station will be releasing their offerings then. Chances are a number of them will be rushed in an attempt to hit the market as quickly as possible to take advantage of the currently weak library. I'm guessing there's going to be a large amount of "crap" from the rush and the unfamiliar control system.

Re:Just Another Manic Monday... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643671)

2) So buy gamecube games, they use the gamecube controller which is very convenient and there probably exist plenty of games which your son can handle.

Wii is fun with friends (1)

Ponny (1069036) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642387)

When having friends over, playing Playstation is fun and geeky. When having friends over, playing Wii is light-hearted and social. I got a Wii so my non-gamer friends can play along instead than getting their butts handed to them in Tekken round after round.

Wiimorse? I don't think so. Wii wins hands down (5, Insightful)

Drake42 (4074) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642425)

I'm not employed by any game company. If I had any financial motivation it would be toward MS winning since I can code games on their console using their open dev tools.

That said, the Wii kicks and continues to kick everyone else's ass. Last night after playing so much golden axe and boxing that I couldn't stand it any more I decided "Hey I want to see some better graphics" I loaded up my 360, looked at the games I had available and none of them sounded all that appealing. I tried "Small Arms" and it just didn't look so amazing that it was more fun to play. Same with PocketBike. Considered loading up Dead Rising but didn't want to invest the time. Nothing else grabbed me so I went right back to the Wii for a few more rounds of tennis and went to bed.

Like it or Hate it, the Wii has more staying power than any of the other consoles, graphics or not. You can say that Nintendo stock is over priced if you want, but people said that about google for ages and then their stock price rose anyway.

People are fundamentally fed up with products that don't work / don't do what they claim / are so over-hyped that I have to tune them out just to think. The people of the world want simple services that actually and reliably work. Google and Nintendo are delivering that and so the market is rewarding them and will continue to do so for quite some time. I'm betting that I'll have a lot more fun playing Smash Brothers with my friends than playing Halo with whiny ass, vomit talking, on-line clans.

I love my 360. And someday I'll buy a (lower cost) PS3 just for the eye candy. But when I want to play a game, I keep on going back to the Wii even after having it for quite a while.

Re:Wiimorse? I don't think so. Wii wins hands down (1)

Megane (129182) | more than 7 years ago | (#19642545)

If I had any financial motivation it would be toward MS winning since I can code games on their console using their open dev tools.

Wow, where did you get that definition of "open" from? From Ebay, where "mint" is a flavor?

You have to pay $99 a year, can't share with other people who don't also pay $99 a year, the tools themselves are certainly not open source, and no gnu-ware tools.

Re:Wiimorse? I don't think so. Wii wins hands down (1)

Turey (1030434) | more than 7 years ago | (#19645179)

I believe the concept you're failing to grasp is that of "relative". Show me where you can get a Wii or PS3 Dev kit for under $99 on the open market.

Re:Wiimorse? I don't think so. Wii wins hands down (1)

revengebomber (1080189) | more than 7 years ago | (#19645899)

Ahem. [playstation.com]

All the Linux you can handle, and even without the GPU it's more power than you'll ever need for a homebrew game. If you're a small developer, the Wii devkits are fairly cheap ($5000 or so, but I'm probably wrong here).

Re:Wiimorse? I don't think so. Wii wins hands down (2, Informative)

MorpheousMarty (1094907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19643597)

I agree, that is why I have a Wii and a PC. When I want to game, and not waste my life tuning settings, I play Wii. When I want the best graphics possible I use my PC. The Xbox and the PS3 both feel like PC's I'm not allowed to tune to my liking, and for that I would only buy them if they had some GREAT games for them, which eventually they will, but as you said, nothing is grabbing me now so I play Resident Evil 4 on the Wii and am more pleased with it than everything but God of War II.
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