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First Royal Mummy Found Since Tut is Identified

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the ancient-grills dept.

Science 192

brian0918 writes "In what is being described as the most important find in the Valley of the Kings since the discovery of King Tut, a single tooth has clinched the identification of an ancient mummy as that of Queen Hatshepsut, who ruled Egypt about 3,500 years ago. A molar inscribed with the queen's name, discovered in a wooden box in 1881 in a cache of royal mummies, was found to fit perfectly in the jaw of 'a fat woman in her 50s who had rotten teeth and died of bone cancer.' Reuters also reports on the DNA analysis: 'Preliminary results show similarities between its DNA and that of Ahmose Nefertari, the wife of the founder of the 18th dynasty and a probable ancestor of Hatsephsut's.'"

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Oh baby... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19665629)

a fat woman in her 50s who had rotten teeth and died of bone cancer
Well don't stop there, I was just getting aroused...

LINUX 4 FAGS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666155)

Please don't post Linux stories between noon and 2pm EST. I'm on lunch break and thus unable to contribute to the forum during that time frame.

Thank you.

ps: Linux STILL violates 235 Microsoft patents..

Re:LINUX 4 FAGS (1, Troll)

R00BYtheN00BY (1118945) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666605)

i agree with da op

Re:Oh baby... (3, Funny)

Forge (2456) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666693)

I really should stop commenting on Moderation but how did this become off topic?

The guy is obviously turned on by fat, long dead Egyptians. Now if he was moderated troll or just "-1 sick, twisted, pervert" ...

What? No such moderation option? OK. I'll take it back.

The Irony (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19665647)

Anyone else find it ironic that these rulers enslaved entire races of people for generations to build gigantic pyramids so that they would never be forgotten only to have grave robbers steal everything and Western archaeologists show up thousands of years later asking, "Who the fuck were you?"

Re:The Irony (3, Funny)

It doesn't come easy (695416) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665675)

Ironically, I agree with you.

Re:The Irony (5, Funny)

IDontAgreeWithYou (829067) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666705)

Even more ironically I agree with you.

Re:The Irony (5, Funny)

sayfawa (1099071) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665823)

The fools. They should have had their slaves build something like this [wikimedia.org] .

Re:The Irony (3, Funny)

ari_j (90255) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666857)

I give you three and a half stars. For full points, you would have needed to work it "The fools! If only they had..." to be fully Futurama compliant [wikipedia.org] .

Re:The Irony (4, Interesting)

CyberLord Seven (525173) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665835)

I'm not so certain KMT used so many slaves as we once thought. New evidence is coming to light that suggests that the builders of the pyramids were paid employees rather than slaves.

In addition, the Bibles recording of the Jews as leaving KMT with Moses (A KMT name) is odd because the people of the Nile were meticulous record keepers. If so many people had departed as suggested in the Bible, then many critical tasks would have gone undone or would have been performed poorly due to low staffing or unskilled workers performing the tasks in the place of the slaves.

There are no records to indicate any such crisis to the KMT economy.

Anyway, they did achieve a sort of immortality. You do know the names of many of these people despite the fact that you don't know which body belongs to which name.

Hold your horses, buddy (3, Insightful)

Lurker2288 (995635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666153)

"If so many people had departed as suggested in the Bible, then many critical tasks would have gone undone or would have been performed poorly due to low staffing or unskilled workers performing the tasks in the place of the slaves."

Do you mean to suggest that something written in the BIBLE might not be literal truth? Boy, them's fightin' words!

Re:Hold your horses, buddy (2, Funny)

smaddox (928261) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666593)

You laugh, but my next-door-neighbor just got out his shotgun, white robes, and bible (in that order).

Re:Hold your horses, buddy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19667807)

Yes, there are many things written in the Bible that are not literal. One must know which type of literature they are reading.

Anyway, do you think a big Egyptian pharoah is gonna be like "Hey a million people just left under my reign, let's record that for all of time"?

Re:The Irony (2, Interesting)

Drachemorder (549870) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666329)

No one that knows anything about Biblical archaeology believes the Hebrews built the pyramids anyway. By all accounts the pyramids were built a good long while before there were any Hebrews around in the first place. There are also a number of interesting theories about where the Exodus fits into Egyptian history, although most of them do require a certain amount of reinterpretation of traditional dates. I wouldn't really expect to see too many accounts of it in Egyptian sources, though, because the pharoahs didn't generally seem to want to brag about the low points in their history for some reason.

Re:The Irony (2, Interesting)

CyberLord Seven (525173) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666591)

I wasn't trying to suggest that the Hebrews built the pyramids. But if they were slaves they would have done all the menial chores one expects a slave to do. You know, tending cattle, bringing in the crops, hauling things. All the little stuff you want a robot to do for you today like sweeping and mopping your floors.

No one wants to brag about their low points but the KMT people did keep meticulous records about everything. The only records they would not keep were names. In KMT culture passing your name down meant you had acquired a level of immortality. If you pissed off someone who gained power after your death, that person might be tempted to remove your name, thus remove you from everlasting life.

It would be very difficult to hide the fact that herds were abandoned, crops were not brought in, ships were not built, and many other menial tasks were not done because some jackass let the Jews go. The effect on the KMT economy would have been felt quickly and would have lasted for a while. It's kind of hard to imagine not finding these records if there had been any exodus of any appreciable size.

Re:The Irony (2, Insightful)

The_Wilschon (782534) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667165)

It is possible that maybe the Hebrews didn't do such things. The Bible, after all, only claims that they made bricks.

Re:The Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19667493)

FYI, the Rabbis of the Talmud really shed a lot of light on this topic. They say some really weird things like in the Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 111a it says the following:

It has been taught: R. Simai said: It says, "And I will take you to me for a people," and it is also said, "And I will bring you in [unto the land etc.]." Their exodus from Egypt is thus likened to their entry into the [promised] land: just as at their entry into the [promised] land there were but two out of six hundred thousand, so at their exodus from Egypt there were but two out of six hundred thousand. Rava said: It shall be even so in the days of the Messiah, for it is said, "And she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the days when she came up out of the land of Egypt."
You have Rava agreeing to the statement! Anyone who knows his Talmud would tell you Rava was no obscure Sage. He was mainstream Jewish thought of the time. Two Hebrew slaves leaving surely explains almost all of the questions of the exodus. Just explain a bit what Rabbi Simai is saying: "And I will take you..." this is from the section when God is talking to Joshua and Caleb. To understand the rest you need to know Hebrew. So if you happen to know Hebrew I can explain it to you.

This is not the only weird statement in regards the number leaving Egypt. In the Midrash Tanchuma there are three opinions on the how many left Egypt: One opinion says 1 out 5. A second opinion says 1 out 50. A final opinion says 1 out 500. Each opinion basing themselves on the previous with a twist from another section (maybe this was just a form of mocking?). It is not exactly certain if the 600,000 figure would be the one or the five. However, there is a consensus, not one opinion says it was the exact number unless you call silence in this issue an opinion.

Anyway, who knows if they were being historical or just having fun deriving numbers from the Torah? But there is something fishy going on with the Rabbis on this issue.

Re:The Irony (3, Insightful)

GreyPoopon (411036) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666471)

If so many people had departed as suggested in the Bible, then many critical tasks would have gone undone or would have been performed poorly due to low staffing or unskilled workers performing the tasks in the place of the slaves.

There are no records to indicate any such crisis to the KMT economy.

A couple thoughts here -- note that I'm only speculating with almost no knowledge to back it up -- perhaps some Egyptian History scholar can provide more information. First, you assume that the tasks performed by the slaves really had much of an impact on the economy. It might be more helpful to know what jobs they actually performed. If all they were doing was building pyramids and monuments for the pharaohs, cessation of such activity wouldn't have much of an impact on anyone but the pharaoh. On the other hand, if they were responsible for the food supply or something, that would have a larger impact. Second, keep in mind that subsequent pharaohs habitually wiped out nearly all mention of certain previous rulers seemingly on a whim. I would imagine that even the most meticulous records could and would suddenly disappear if so ordered by the pharaoh at the time.

Re:The Irony (3, Insightful)

CyberLord Seven (525173) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666715)

Take all of the slaves out of Georgia in 1840. Just that one state. Imagine trying to hide the impact.

If you don't like that year pick another. If you don't like that state, pick another. Or pick another society like ancient Rome. Remove the slaves and then try to hide the impact on the economy. Then remember there's a reason we all know of Spartacus.

If what we call menial tasks don't get done, someone else has to do it or it will not be done. Suddenly menial tasks are so menial.

OOPS! (1)

CyberLord Seven (525173) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666741)

I meant to write Suddenly menial tasks are NOT so menial. :)

Re:The Irony (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666929)

What is it with you niggers always bringing up slavery. It is gone and past. Jesus fucking Christ, we even gave you the right to vote and all those other liberties and what have you done with it. The US was better off giving my wolves inalienable rights. What else do you want? I mean we set you free but you end up in the prisons, maybe slavery wasn't so bad after all huh? You guys seem to dig captivity. We even gave you a civil rights movement and give you a free ride to be as racist as you want. Enough is never enough with you people.

David Duke,
Grand Wizard Level 75 : WoW

Re:The Irony (2, Interesting)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667037)

The thing is, the nile floods for 3-4 months of year (which the egyptians call 'the inundation') Heavy rains from the mountains of ethiopia make their way down the nile and flood everything. People are left with nothing to do during this time so the pharoahs/kings took advantage of this downtime.. it's difficult to say whether they were forced/coerced into building the pyramids during this time. There are some inscriptions within the pyramids that suggest the men building them were proud of their work, ie. "Khufu's gang was here and we kicked ass!" (not in so many words.) After the nile receeded everybody went back to the fields to plant seeds and harvest the annual crop... I think Herodotus corroborates this general breakdown of the annual going-ons of the egyptians in his Histories.

Re:The Irony (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667885)

There are some inscriptions within the pyramids that suggest the men building them were proud of their work, ie. "Khufu's gang was here and we kicked ass!" (not in so many words.)

That doesn't imply that they weren't slaves, however. Only that they still had pride, in spite of it.

But anyway, recent research implies that the pyramids were made out of a primitive form of cement, so it might not have taken nearly as much labor as is assumed...

Re:The Irony (1)

kiracatgirl (791797) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667425)

Assuming that the Hebrews were led out of Egypt by Moses and did not appreciably disrupt Egyptian life, there are a couple other possibilities besides "Egypt didn't rely on slaves." One, the number of Hebrews that left was small enough to be inconsequential. And two, the number of slaves that the Egyptians had was so very much larger than the group Hebrews that it was again inconsequential. The existing slaves temporarily fill in for the ones who left (they're slaves, no one cares if they're horribly overworked for a while), and the Egyptians go out and catch some more to replace the escapees.

Re:The Irony (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666823)

odd because the people of the Nile were meticulous record keepers. If so many people had departed as suggested in the Bible, then many critical tasks would have gone undone or would have been performed poorly due to low staffing or unskilled workers performing the tasks in the place of the slaves.

Because all the accountants and book keepers were Jews?

Re:The Irony (1)

MorpheousMarty (1094907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666919)

I have heard that the Egyptians did not like to write down bad news. I got this from the discovery channel, so it's only about as reliable as the Bible as info.

Re:The Irony (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666959)

In addition, the Bibles recording of the Jews as leaving KMT with Moses (A KMT name) is odd because the people of the Nile were meticulous record keepers. If so many people had departed as suggested in the Bible, then many critical tasks would have gone undone or would have been performed poorly due to low staffing or unskilled workers performing the tasks in the place of the slaves.

There are some suggestions that the "Egypt" of the Old Testament, is not the same "Egypt" that history refers too. Possibly, due to the fact that ancient Hebrew has no vowels and certain things had to be interpreted by oral context.

Ranges go from either just local kingdoms in Syria/Jordan, to Turkey to Persia, and to really far fetched like Japan.

That is interesting (1)

paladinwannabe2 (889776) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667157)

Because the Egyptians used damnatio memoriae [wikipedia.org] to remove heretics, assassins, and other 'unpersons' from their records, it's impossible to show that someone like Moses didn't exist. Something as important as a large group of slaves leaving, though, would probably have an impact that would show up in their records.

Re:The Irony (5, Insightful)

Patoski (121455) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667415)

Ancient Egyptians were meticulous record keepers, but notorious revisionists. In their written records the ancient Egyptians sought to hide their military defeats.

Undoubtably the pharaoh would seek to blot out anything connected to what would have been one of Egypt's more embarrassing military defeats.

Re:The Irony (1)

statusbar (314703) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665955)

Daniel Jackson knows...

--jeffk++

Re:The Irony (1)

another_fanboy (987962) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666455)

How do you trust a man married to an evil queen of the galaxy, has a former girlfriend who is another evil queen, and once used advanced alien technology to become the evil overlord of Earth?

Re:The Irony (1)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666089)

The goal was to be remembered. They succeeded. Where's the irony?

Re:The Irony (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666117)

This is the truth for anyone who wants to make a name for themselves. 90% are forgotten within their own lifetime. 90% of the remaining are forgotten within a generation. Rinse and repeat until we have just a few names from history.

 

Re:The Irony (2, Insightful)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666639)

his is the truth for anyone who wants to make a name for themselves. 90% are forgotten within their own lifetime. 90% of the remaining are forgotten within a generation. Rinse and repeat until we have just a few names from history.

And the attributes that make people temporarily extremely popular are almost completely different from the attributes that last.

Re:The Irony (1)

Yazeran (313637) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666223)


Anyone else find it ironic that these rulers enslaved entire races of people for generations to build gigantic pyramids so that they would never be forgotten only to have grave robbers steal everything and Western archaeologists show up thousands of years later asking, "Who the fuck were you?"


Sorry to point out, but you are Wrong! The egyptians who build the pyramids and the royal tombs were highly skilled and decently paid workers. Archeologist have found the work camps of both the pyramid builders and the tomb workers [wikipedia.org] , and they were in both cases quite decent standard considering the time.

Secondly at that time the Nile still had its yearly flooding for 2 to 3 months each year where the whole Nile valley were flooded and thus no farming could be performed and thereby providing the Egyptian pharos with a work force of ordinary people. Thirdly, the rich soil of the Nile provided with a large surplus food supply (also used by the Roman emperors later to bribe the citizens of Rome) making it possible to pay workers to build the temples and pyramids.

The Egyptians DID use slave labor though, but this was mainly in the silver and gold mines in the mountains near the red sea (and being sent to the mines as a slave was often equal to a death sentence.

Yours Yazeran

Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer.

Re:The Irony (1)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666287)

Also, considering that these were tombs for God-Kings it would be rather an admission of being less than well loved to have to force people to work on them. Rather, I imagine working on the pyramids was something of an honer to be fought over by the common Egyptian.

Re:The Irony (1)

b0r1s (170449) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666281)

Uh ... considering the alternatives, I think they succeeded. If they didnt try to build the massive pyramids, they'd have been forgotten like, say, the millions of slaves who worked for them, who's bodies will never be found/identified at all.

It may take time for the west to identify these mummies, but at least they have a chance. Those without such wild resources have no chance.

Re:The Irony (1)

Plutonite (999141) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666589)

Anyone else find it ironic that these rulers enslaved entire races of people for generations to build gigantic pyramids so that they would never be forgotten only to have grave robbers steal everything and Western archaeologists show up thousands of years later asking, "Who the fuck were you?"
Is this why you post as A/C, the futility of it all? :)

Re:The Irony (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666653)

Not to take away the philosophical aspect you'd posted, but from TFA:

Hatshepsut's tomb, for example, was found looted and without any mummified female, possibly because her son and successor, Tuthmosis III, tried to wipe out all traces of her memory after she died in about 1482 BC.

...seems that her kid was hell-bent on making sure she wasn't remembered at all (considering the story on the relationship between the two, I could see where the guy would get all butt-hurt about his mom's successes, and the fact that she ruled for decades after he was old enough to have taken on the job (which was traditionally a male slot after all), and...

That she managed to have her name survive in spite of her own son's best efforts is pretty damned incredible, IMHO.

/P

PS: ...no jokes in these threads centering on Iron Maiden's Powerslave yet? WTF?

/P

Queen Sut (3, Funny)

Jozxyqk (16657) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665667)

Born in Arizona,
Moved to Babylonia,
Queen 'Sut.

Re:Queen Sut (2, Funny)

Gaspo (862470) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665883)

ID'd by a name carved in her mola Queen Sut

Re:Queen Sut (1)

wiredog (43288) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666465)

Man. That takes me back. I was, what, about 13 when Steve Martin did that?

Yep. [google.com]

Re:Queen Sut (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666957)

I was, what, about 13 when Steve Martin did that?

You're asking us? How would we now that?

Inscription (3, Interesting)

kevin_conaway (585204) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665691)

A molar inscribed with the queen's name...

Interesting. Did the Egyptians do that after she died or when she was alive? I feel kind of silly asking if it was done while she was alive but they did some other bizarre stuff, at least by todays standards.

Re:Inscription (5, Funny)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665717)

This was the original "Grill." That's right.. Kickin' it *really* old school, egypt-style.

Re:Inscription (5, Funny)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666149)

So in another 3500 years, archeologists will dig up Flava Flav and assume he was a wise and great leader? *shudder*

Re:Inscription (4, Informative)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665853)

FTFA:

During the embalming process, it was common to set aside spare body parts and preserve them in such a box.
I other words: After she was dead, they put her tooth in a box.

It's lucky they did, because as TFA also explains, her tomb was looted and the mummy removed, though not in the article is the fact that her son removed her cartouche and representation from all the monuments and temples he could find.

Re:Inscription (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666543)

they put her tooth in a box

I guess that's what happens when you can't have a dick-in-a-box.

Re:Inscription (1)

smaddox (928261) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666645)

I've noticed that a lot of ancient rulers had the habit of erasing previous rulers from historical existence. Very 1984-esque.

I guess they wanted people to think they were immortal and had always been, and will always be their ruler.

Re:Inscription (3, Informative)

timelorde (7880) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665865)

Nice editing in the summary. The actual article says that the Queen's name was on the box, not on the tooth.

Sheesh.

I do love that Egyptian stuff, however.

Re:Inscription (1)

kevin_conaway (585204) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666063)

Nice editing in the summary. The actual article says that the Queen's name was on the box, not on the tooth. Sheesh. I do love that Egyptian stuff, however.

Thanks, I missed that in the article.

Re:Inscription (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666161)

The inscription also said: "One tooth to find me."

Bad Teeth (5, Informative)

StefanJ (88986) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665727)

I recently finished listening to a lecture series on the history of ancient Egypt. Fascinating stuff. As I recall, Queen Hatshepsut was kind of erased from history by a later pharaoh. Lady leaders just didn't fit in with the Way Things Were Supposed to Be.

Lots of ancient Egyptians had bad teeth. Flour tended to have lots of sand in it thanks to the grinding process, and chewing wore away tooth enamel very efficiently.

Stefan

Re:Bad Teeth (2, Informative)

kevin_conaway (585204) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665821)

I recently finished listening to a lecture series on the history of ancient Egypt. Fascinating stuff. As I recall, Queen Hatshepsut was kind of erased from history by a later pharaoh.

The TFA mentions that it might have been her son [wikipedia.org]

Lots of ancient Egyptians had bad teeth. Flour tended to have lots of sand in it thanks to the grinding process, and chewing wore away tooth enamel very efficiently.

Just like modern day meth heads

Re:Bad Teeth (1)

cromar (1103585) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666295)

You don't eat meth. See these [ada.org] two [mappsd.org] articles on "meth mouth".

Re:Bad Teeth (1)

Rolgar (556636) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666737)

The Smithsonian had a great article [smithsonianmag.com] on this late last year. (Hit cancel on the single page print dialog.)

Re:Bad Teeth (1)

CRiMSON (3495) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666849)

If you chewed up Meth sure.. But since you don't I'm not sure how this would be like modern day meth heads?

Re:Bad Teeth (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667499)

The TFA mentions that it might have been her son

I don't mean to go off on a rant here, but do you read The TFA before you go extract cash from an ATM Machine?

Re:Bad Teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19667809)

>> As I recall, Queen Hatshepsut was kind of erased from history by a later pharaoh.

Yes, I had a chance to see the Hatshepsut exhibit while on display in Texas. They went into alot of detail on the artifacts on display. They said that Hatshepsut's monuments had been broken up and buried; that was the very reason her monuments survived. Those monuments that weren't buried usually ended up being co-opted into newer monuments. Also, many of Hatshepsut's cartouche had been defaced - but some of the workmen were rather lazy and buried them without completely obliterating the text. Probably thinking no one would really care or ever find out. Also, there is evidence that points to the priests forcing Hatshepsut's co-ruler and son (I believe) to carry out the erasing. From what I read, he was reluctant because she was said to be a benevolent sp? ruler.

Now they have found her mummy. Would that they had it on display with her artifacts.

>> Lots of ancient Egyptians had bad teeth. Flour tended to have lots of sand in it thanks to the grinding process, and chewing wore away tooth enamel very efficiently.

Another piece of trivia for you... Rats ate their stored food so Egyptians worshipped animals that hunted rats.

Codifex

Modern day descendants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19665737)

Can they figure out who some of their modern day descendants or relatives are?
I sort of want to know out of curiousity, but then I see a lot of people will claim they are superior because they are Tut's descendant.

But actually the opposite is true .. because if you're Tut's descendant .. descendant of the king of an empire you really haven't an excuse for not being a high acheiver today. And furthermore those guys were mostly tyrants (why would they build a pyramid to themselves instead of lasting national infrastructure?).

Re:Modern day descendants (1)

megaditto (982598) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666335)

The Colosseum, the Aqueduct, and the Pantheon all survive to today, so the ancient tyrants did do a few things for the people.

Re:Modern day descendants (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666893)

Alright, but apart from the Colosseum, the Aqueduct, and the Pantheon, what have the ancient tyrants ever done for us?

Re:Modern day descendants (1)

megaditto (982598) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667729)

Monetary system, military/defence, police + legal/court system, general infrastructure including roads, granaries, irrigation and sewage systems, support for universities, poets and philosophers?

Re:Modern day descendants (1)

iggy456 (656950) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666649)

The national infastructure of Ancient Egypt is still there. The Nile provided water, transporation highway and even the renewal of the farmlands via the early floods.

Re:Modern day descendants (1, Funny)

Comboman (895500) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666673)

And furthermore those guys were mostly tyrants (why would they build a pyramid to themselves instead of lasting national infrastructure?).

Do you know how many millions of dollars a year the pyramids generate in tourism? Sounds like lasting national infrastructure to me.

Queen Hatshepsut (2, Insightful)

Mad Dog Manley (93208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665743)

I'm sure many here remember Queen Hatshepsut from Civilization IV!

Go back... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19665965)

Go back to your basement...

Re:Queen Hatshepsut (1)

Gospodin (547743) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665985)

Heh. I'm in the middle of a game right now and Hatshepsut is "cautious" towards me. She keeps wanting to make crazy trades, like I give her "Flight" and she gives me "Military Tradition". Come on, Queen 'Sut, I'm not going for that!

Medical procedures (4, Interesting)

ushering05401 (1086795) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665749)

I am interested in what medical techniques they might uncover by examining the evidence. It is reported that this lady not only had bone cancer, but probably liver cancer and diabetes.

What lengths did the Egyptians, so often given credit for advanced medicine for their era, go to to save a ruler considered divine?

Regards.

Re:Medical procedures (1)

Cedric Tsui (890887) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665999)

The medical techniques uncovered may not be all that interesting for modern medicine.

The first Chinese emperor for instance demanded that his alchemists find him an elixir for immortality. So they gave him mercury, which of course eroded away his brain, causing insanity and then a premature death.

Some legends said an elixir of immortality existed in the islands of the eastern coast, and the emperor sent one of his alchemists along with sizeable military force to these islands with the instructions not to return until they had found the elixir. Some say that this caused the birth of Japan.

Re:Medical procedures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666189)

The first Chinese emperor for instance demanded that his alchemists find him an elixir for immortality. So they gave him mercury, which of course eroded away his brain, causing insanity and then a premature death
Sure cured him of that immortality, then.

Re:Medical procedures (5, Informative)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666655)

It is reported that this lady not only had bone cancer, but probably liver cancer and diabetes.

      I'm not a forensic anthropologist, but as a physician I can say there are a lot of signs to tell you that a patient has cancer even if you only recover a fragment. Especially osteosarcoma (bone cancer), which tends to produce lytic lesions (areas where the bone is less dense) in most of the bones of the body. A quick x-ray of the jaw could reveal this. Plus osteosarcoma will alter calcium and PTH levels and dramatically change bone formation and reabsorbtion. See, bone is LIVING tissue. It's constantly being absorbed and recreated.

      Now I don't know where they get liver cancer from - it's very unlikely that a patient will have TWO separate types of cancer. But the liver lesions are probably just metastases of the primary osteosaarcoma.

      The egyptians were rather advanced in the field of medicine - FOR THEIR DAY. There is no possible way they could approach the level of medicine we had say 200 years ago, much less today. Diabetes is a complex disease that is eventually lethal when left untreated. I doubt very much they had discovered that feeding patients pig pancreases could mitigate this disease somewhat, since this was discovered early last century. We won't talk about sulfonyl-ureas and other oral hypoglycemiants.

      They were pretty good at basic surgery, they had a pretty good idea of which tumors NOT to touch (because they got worse if you touched them), and it's rumored that some were even capable of drilling burr holes in patients' skulls to treat subdural hematomas (from trauma/battle injuries) or encephalitis/meningitis (to relieve the pressure inside the skull from a swollen brain/membranes). However we MUST bear in mind that we have NO record of what their actual success rate was with these procedures. It's easy to attribute supernatural powers to a vanished culture, however reality is they had no antibiotics, precious little by way of anesthetics, and more importantly no scientific method.

Re:Medical procedures (1)

belligerent0001 (966585) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666813)

As I understand it they used raw honey as an antibiotic. It works too. I did a "Neosporan" like test 2 similar cuts and the one treated with honey once per day actually seemed to heal faster.

Re:Medical procedures (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667565)

As I understand it they used raw honey as an antibiotic.

I will second this, I too have done it, and it does work quite nicely. It does have to be raw (aka, not pasteurized) honey, because cooking it destroys all the goodness.

There are actually other antibiotics in this world, too, and some of them have been used for very long periods of time, for example neem tree seed oil. (Also works as a contraceptive - at least, it's working for myself and my lady. Smells kind of weird though, it makes pussy smell like a tiger's milk energy bar or something.) Supposedly it even works as a [relatively] safe abortifact.

While the GP is correct that "It's easy to attribute supernatural powers to a vanished culture" they are mostly wrong about them not having an antibiotic. However, it's not a systemic antibiotic - eating it will not cure a yeast infection. The Egyptians did have other cures for that, however, so it's likely that they knew a lot more than most people think they did - but then, most people don't know jack about shit. Honey is only a topical antibiotic. It is yummy when taken internally, and supposedly it helps inure you to pollen allergens if you eat local raw honey, which is made of those pollens... and it might even be healthful in some ways. But it's not an antibiotic when used in that fashion.

So wait... (1)

VE3OGG (1034632) | more than 7 years ago | (#19665833)

So wait... This mummy, was a daddy [wikipedia.org] who has been discovered as a mummy? I am guessing her kids needed therapy and might be a good candidate for the Jerry Springer Show, or the a match for Paris Hilton

Re:So wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666447)

...a match for Paris Hilton

Hey you, don't burn down a perfectly good hotel!

Pharaoh genome (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19665869)

Do we have enough of any pharaoh's DNA to sequence their full genome? Or at least enough DNA from relatives so that a particular's dynasties genome can be figured out.

Does anyone know?

Re:Pharaoh genome (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666121)

Re:Pharaoh genome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666323)

It doesn't matter. The missing pieces can be replaced by frog DNA.

I for one welcome our ancient pharaoic frog overlords.

Re:Pharaoh genome (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666497)

The missing pieces can be replaced by frog DNA.

Alternatively you can replace it with DNA from seven fat and seven starving cows.

I have a 98% similarity in DNA... (4, Funny)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666021)

Can I get my inheritance, now?

Re:I have a 98% similarity in DNA... (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666473)

Can I get my inheritance, now?

      Considering the fact that a lot of them were executed/assassinated, your inheritance might just consist of a short length of rope and a dangle on the gallows.

Re:I have a 98% similarity in DNA... (1)

Tatisimo (1061320) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666783)

I share about 95% DNA with chimpanzees... as a close living relative, I demand ownership of the lands that were taken away from them by greedy forest destroyers!

Engraved Tooth or Box? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19666027)

The article made it seems as though the tooth was in a box and the box had her name engraved on it.

So close to TFA, but not exactly... (3, Informative)

Cragen (697038) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666067)

The mummy "was found in 1903 in a tomb in the Valley of the Kings, where the young Pharaoh Tutankhamun was buried, and Hawass himself thought until recently that it belonged to the owner of the tomb, Hatshepsut's wet-nurse by the name of Sitre In.

But the decisive evidence was a molar in a wooden box inscribed with the queen's name, found in 1881 in a cache of royal mummies collected and hidden away for safekeeping at the Deir al-Bahari temple about 1,000 metres (yards) away.

During the embalming process, it was common to set aside spare body parts and preserve them in such a box.

Orthodontics professor Yehya Zakariya checked all the mummies which might be Hatshepsut's and found that the tooth was a perfect fit in a gap in the upper jaw of the fat woman.

"The identification of the tooth with the jaw can show this is Hatshepsut," Hawass said. "A tooth is like a fingerprint."

"It is 100 percent definitive. It is 1.80 cm (wide) and the dentist took the measurement and studied that part. He found it fit exactly 100 percent with this part," he told Reuters

So, no new mummy discovery, just new understanding of the evidence, as is often the case with the PYRAMIDS of data that science-types have still to de-cypher. (If I understand the articles right...)

Re:So close to TFA, but not exactly... (1)

brian0918 (638904) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666417)

What are you talking about? You seem to have misread the submission. What gave you the impression that the mummy was a new discovery??? The only thing that's new is the identification.

Re:So close to TFA, but not exactly... (2, Informative)

Cragen (697038) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666675)

Well, I read the HEADLINE ("First Royal Mummy Found Since Tut is Identified") as /.'s editors saying someone found a new mummy.

So, if I read that wrong, I apologize, but I doubt that I am the only one who read it like that.

Cheers

Re:So close to TFA, but not exactly... (1)

brian0918 (638904) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667619)

Thank slashdot for not giving enough space to use proper grammar. "The first royal mummy found since the discovery of Tut has been identified."

Re:So close to TFA, but not exactly... (1)

curunir (98273) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666683)

This makes the Slashdot title even more incorrect since the mummy of Ramses I has been identified since Tut Ankh Amon's mummy was discovered.

That mummy was sold to a tourist in the mid 1800's and eventually made it's way to a small museum near Niagra Falls. Only recently was it realized that what was assumed to be little more than a side-show attraction was actually a royal mummy.

What flavor? (0, Troll)

lonechicken (1046406) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666157)

Nowhere in that article does it say if she's teriyaki-style.

A show about her was in New York last year (2, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666363)

The Metropolitan Museum of Art had a special exhibit on Hatshepsut last year. It was not located with their egyptian wing but in a separate location. I had taken my parents there as my mom is our resident egyptologist and there were two other exhibits I wanted to see (the arms and armor permanent collection and the travelling tibetan armor exhibit).

It was certainly interesting seeing all the pieces from her reign that had been destroyed in an attempt to erase her memory from history. Despite the pieces having been carved by hand, my dad would bring up the subject of how hard it is for him to use a dremel tool to carve things and how he would like to know how they did the intricate carvings. Needless to say, we would look around after he would say that and hope no real egyptologist was around.

King Tut? (2, Interesting)

BigBadBus (653823) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666541)

Why do Americans call the boy king "King Tut"? His full name was Tutankhamun (or Tutankhamen)! Is this name so hard to spell or pronounce? Tut makes him sound like some fifth rate Batman villain! Grrrrrr!

Re:King Tut? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667387)

1. There is a popular song

2. It has four syllables, roughly two more than the average American can pronouce. Add to that the kh in there and that excludes about 95% of the US population from ever getting the pronunciation correct.

Re:King Tut? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667621)

It has four syllables, roughly two more than the average American can pronouce. Add to that the kh in there and that excludes about 95% of the US population from ever getting the pronunciation correct.

Exactly. My lady's last name is Photinos. Guess how many phone monkeys can get that right, out of a hundred? Hint: It's not very fucking many.

My last name, as is fairly obvious, is Espinoza. My first name is Martin. I've gotten mail for Maria, Martina, Martine, Martn, Marti, and so on. Last names vary widely (but much of the time even my Employer writes it -sa instead of -za) but the best one was "Estinova", which came with the first name "Martina". Martin is a German name, two syllables, with a glottal stop, but when I say my name is "Mar'tin" (the ' is the stop) people ask me "Mark? Marty?" etc.

Moral of the story: people are fucking lame.

Re:King Tut? (5, Funny)

TechnicolourSquirrel (1092811) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667829)

Why do Americans call the boy king "King Tut"? His full name was Tutankhamun (or Tutankhamen)! Is this name so hard to spell or pronounce? Tut makes him sound like some fifth rate Batman villain! Grrrrrr!
I'm afraid I must object to your use of this one-syllable colloquialism, 'Grrrrrr!' Would it have been so difficult to type 'This makes me very angry,' in proper English?

Title (1)

felipekk (1007591) | more than 7 years ago | (#19666961)

I'm pretty sure I was the only one to read "First Royal Mommy Found Since Tut is Identified".

And as I didn't link Tut to the Pharaoh, I didn't re-read the title. I just though "what the heck!' and clicked the rss link...

Well, duh. (1)

kiracatgirl (791797) | more than 7 years ago | (#19667315)

"Preliminary results show similarities between its DNA and that of Ahmose Nefertari, the wife of the founder of the 18th dynasty and a probable ancestor of Hatsephsut's."

Of course there were similarities. All Ancient Egyptian royalty was related; they usually married each others cousins and siblings. Since it was a bunch of royal mummies, they're all going to be similar.

This FP f0r GNAA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19667597)

as 7ittingly When I sttod for
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