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Mozilla Sunbird 0.5 Released

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the hot-date dept.

Mozilla 135

linux pickle writes "Mozilla has released version 0.5 of Sunbird, its calendar app. New features in this release include numerous stability and usage improvements, Google Calendar synchronization support, and much improved printing support. Check out the release notes or grab a copy."

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My god this is groundbreaking news (2, Funny)

mikecardii (978929) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677789)

Stop the presses holy hell! *head a-splodes*

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (1, Interesting)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677827)

Umm, I don't know who modded the parent troll, but let's be honest, when the story's went for nearly five minutes with nothing but this post, he might actually be right. Just sayin'.

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (0, Offtopic)

mikecardii (978929) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677885)

Hahaha thanks. I probably was a little harsh, but it just struck me that this probably is unnecessary. *shrug*

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (2, Informative)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678041)

Hahaha thanks. I probably was a little harsh, but it just struck me that this probably is unnecessary. *shrug*
Considering it was at .3 for about 2 years, learning that they finally got to a new version is actually surprising news.

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678113)

Absolutely! So much more important than Bush being Subpoena'd by the senate.

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (2, Informative)

Columcille (88542) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678343)

...which has nothing to do with news for nerds.

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19679531)

It is stuff that matters.

Agreed. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678437)

Slashdot is gay. Amen.

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (0, Offtopic)

utopianfiat (774016) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678499)

Dear Satan,
Trade you my soul if I can mod parent up?
Sincerely,
utopian

Re:My god this is groundbreaking news (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678525)

Dear Utopian,

I'm a bit busy right now. Cheney asked me to come back home for a nooner, and thought I would love to discuss this proposition, I cannot sit down right now.
Perhaps some other time?

Love,
*S

Kalendar (0, Offtopic)

rustalot42684 (1055008) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677801)

What I want is for Kalendar to sync with Google Calendar. I like KDE because all the applications integrate, unlike in GNOME, where they seem to be loosely scattered about.

Re:Kalendar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678519)

Troll. There is no application called Kalendar. The calendar component of Kontact is called KOrganizer http://kontact.kde.org/korganizer/ [kde.org]

Re:Kalendar (1)

n0-0p (325773) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678911)

Lightning [mozilla.org] is the Thunderbird extension that provides the same capabilities as Sunbird. It supports iMIP and other email invitation formats. It also has a Provider for Google Calendar Extension [mozilla.org] .

KDE is dead (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19682603)

While the integrated nature of KDE was a big initial benefit, that structure became it's downfall. The structure limits the free flow of development. Outsider development is limited, as the integrated apps have the prime seat, and others can't really "compete".

No major apps use KDE. I don't see that changing, even if KDE was better than Betamax.
Firefox,Thunderbird,Claws-Mail, Gaim/Pidgin all are GTK based. Not sure what the toolkit of Openoffice and Abiword, but it's not KDE/QT. The next browser running on the next generation Konquer engine (KHTML,WebCore,WebKit), will have a GTK front end.

I used to think the same thing as you GNOME. In fact, I don't use GNOME. I use XFCE, with GTK apps.

Lightning Is Released, Too (4, Informative)

Slashdot Parent (995749) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677825)

Lightning, which is the Sunbird plugin for the Thunderbird email client, was also released.

Update as usual: Tools > Add-ons > Find Updates

Great work, guys!

Question (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677849)

I'm looking for a way to give my Exchange server a toss (because I hate Exchange *and* because I'm stuck with running it on Windows SBS 2003). How close is Thunderbird/Sunbird to the point where I can go to my manager and make the pitch?

I'm Sorry (4, Informative)

Slashdot Parent (995749) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677945)

I'm sorry to report that Thunderbird/Sunbird is nowhere near ready to replace Exchange. Depending on your needs, it might be a good fit though.

I'd say download it and try it out. If it's too basic for your needs, and it probably is, then look at some of the open source groupware packages.

There's some neat open source groupware out there.

Re:I'm Sorry (1, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678061)

And nearly all of it will never replace Exchange because most of the packages are too difficult to install and configure, are based on technologies that don't scale very well (like PHP), or don't synchronize well or at all with Outlook.

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678065)

The big thing my organization needs Exchange for is shared calendaring and event management. I find Exchange's address books hokey, and am going to be setting up an LDAP server to manage that anyways. Basic isn't bad, in my opinion.

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

cawpin (875453) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678241)

Lightning/Sunbird has shared calendar support already. If that's all you're looking for go for it.

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

wetelectric (956671) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678435)

Nope, tried it at mine. Lightning (a must if you are going to be using Thunderbird in the work place) missing decent native shared calendaring support. This is big stopper. But if you have users that do not require it, go for it. I've rolled it out for our laptop users, i.e users not connected to the exchange server..

Re:I'm Sorry (2, Interesting)

Zonk (troll) (1026140) | more than 7 years ago | (#19681035)

Nope, tried it at mine. Lightning (a must if you are going to be using Thunderbird in the work place) missing decent native shared calendaring support. This is big stopper. But if you have users that do not require it, go for it. I've rolled it out for our laptop users, i.e users not connected to the exchange server..
Lightning/Sunbird do support shared calendaring. Use either WebDAV or FTP to host it and install it on the client as a remote calendar (whatever it's called). Writing is supported.

If you want to dump exchange, though, go with Scalix. The Community Edition is free for 25 users, though when you get above that it's not cheap. Still, it does everything Exchange does, runs on Linux, provides an excellent web client, full integration with Outlook via a plug-in, and full integration with Evolution via a plug-in.

There are two ways to install it. With an easy to use graphical installer that even a Windows admin can handle, or manually.

Still Falls Short (0)

Slashdot Parent (995749) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678393)

Migrating your corporate address book to LDAP is a great start, but I still don't think that Lightning is going to do what you need it to do.

Again, try it out. Hopefully it will meet your needs. But as far a I know, there is no way to automatically schedule meetings based on others' calendars. Most organizations use that ability of Exchange quite heavily.

That feature is key. (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679281)

I use notes at work, and love the ability to peek at others' calendars and find free time. I'd love that feature at home.

Re:Still Falls Short (1)

defaria (741527) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680755)

Active Directory IS LDAP! I create LDAP Directories in TB's addressbook all the time. Granted you need to get through the front line help desk people to the LDAP people who know the appropriate LDAP magic words but it is indeed doable...

Re:I'm Sorry (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678901)

So use Zimbra or Open-Xchange. There's a *ton* of great groupware out there. I don't get the whole "Exchange is my god!!" thing.

GOOGLE PEOPLE!!

Re:I'm Sorry (0, Troll)

br14n420 (1111329) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679177)

I don't get the whole "Exchange is my god!!" thing.

Nobody is saying they like exchange. It is just if you go running something that is "compatible" with the corporate exchange server, and it screws up on one important engagement due to errata, then you've lost more in one screw up than buying Office for an office of 20 would have cost.

You'll come to understand these things when you get your first job.

Re:I'm Sorry (2, Interesting)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679327)

I've actually tested Zimbra in my environment.. Currently we use Eudora for Pop3 and Oracle Calendar. The biggest problem I have with much of the "open source" groupware is that it is Browser only. (zimbra has an offline client that is a resource PIG). For my traveling users, they are not always connected to a network. They still need to be able to lookup when/where their next appointment is. I am planning on moving everyone to Thunderbird/IMAP for email, and would absolutely love to use an opensource calendar app, but an offline client is a must, as well as the ability to control sharing of calendars (central management), delegation, check free/busy time, etc.. If I could find a good, open source calendar server that works with Sunbird/lightning, supported SyncML for PDA's and smartphones, I would be in heaven..

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

charlesnw (843045) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679443)

You mean like the open source Funambol (formerly called sync4j)? http://www.funambol.com/ [funambol.com]

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679765)

Interesting.. Off to do some reading... thanks!

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

mp3phish (747341) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680905)

Unfortunately, you won't find much to read there.

The documentation is horrible and there is literally nothing on that website that explains how the system works, only the feature set. But absolutely NONE of the featureset is explained in detail.

Short of setting up your own server with the software and spending a ton of time, you probably will not get any answers on what works with that system. Also, after lots of research, the synCML plugin for lightning is no longer supported because the mozilla calendar application was re-written and renamed lightning, meaning that the plugin no longer works and as far as I can tell hasn't had activity on it for over a year.

This is just what I can see from my research on that website, so if you find anything useful that can fill in the gaps I would like to hear it. Hope you can get more info than I did.

According to the site, you can even sync nokia phones with the thing, though there is nothing anywhere showing you how it works and details of supported features. All the stuff on the site looks awesome, but unfortunately, unless your an insider it seems quite difficult to get anything actually working.

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 7 years ago | (#19681399)

Take a look at Xandros server which has Scalix groupware and an Active Directory to LDAP migration wizard.It also brags (although I haven't personally tried it yet) that it connects seemlessly to Outlook clients.If you are wanting to replace your Windows server,it would be the way I'd go.Also has Xen built-in and the license allows for unlimited virtual machines on the server.

Although I've only recently started using their server,so far it seems as rock solid as their business and home desktop OS products which I've been using for my laptop and desktop for two years without a single headache.Yes it is not free but companies like having the licenses and support.And it has been the most complete "works out-of-the-box" distro I've ever run(and at last count I'd tried over 40,including all the big names like SUSE,Red Hat,Ubuntu,ETC).Give it a try.I bet you'll find it'll do everything you need and then some.

Re:I'm Sorry (4, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679081)

I'm sorry to report that Thunderbird/Sunbird is nowhere near ready to replace Exchange. Depending on your needs, it might be a good fit though.

They would be far closer to replacing exchange if they supported Exchange. The Evolution Exchange plugin has been open sourced for ages now, porting it the cross platform Thunderbird and Sunbird would make the suite hugely more attractive to enterprises locked into MS Office for their client software.

Attractive to others as well (0)

Comboman (895500) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679419)

They would be far closer to replacing exchange if they supported Exchange. The Evolution Exchange plugin has been open sourced for ages now, porting it the cross platform Thunderbird and Sunbird would make the suite hugely more attractive to enterprises locked into MS Office for their client software.

I imagine it would also make it an attractive target for Microsoft patent lawyers.

Re:Attractive to others as well (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679539)

I imagine it would also make it an attractive target for Microsoft patent lawyers.

I see. So tell me, what open source projects have been the target of Microsoft patent lawsuits to date? And exactly which patents are you talking about? Microsoft doesn't seem to want to disclose this information, so if you have any insight I'm sure we'd be all ears.

Do you know what Exchange is? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19679665)

Exchange is a messaging/calendaring/groupware server. Thunderbird/Sunbird are email and calendar client apps.

They're entirely differnt types of software and incapable of replacing one another.

What you're thinking of is Outlook. I knew what you meant, but maybe you could act like the words in our language actually have some kind of meaning.

Re:I'm Sorry (1)

Jason Hood (721277) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679999)

Given that Exchange is a service on a server and Sunbird is a calendar client, I would say your right. Sunbird will never replace Exchange. But it could replace outlook ;)

Re:Question (2, Interesting)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678063)

You should consider SurgeMail. I did away with Exchange for 200+ users using it. To the users it was transparent. They weren't using some of the core functions of Exchange anyway so it was worthless to me. After showing them how things worked, give or take a month and a half of "teach the idjit/PEBKAC (l)users", all was well and it offered the same level of functionality of Exchange. Only a couple thousand dollars cheaper.

Re:Question (2, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678339)

What you probably need for an Exchange replacement is something that supports CalDAV. iCal in Leopard will, and it's on the Sunbird roadmap, but I don't think it's in this release. Novell's Hula also supports CalDAV, and might be an option.

Re:Question (1)

bvdbos (724595) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680233)

Sunbird 0.5 / lightning 0.5 also support caldav-servers (have been for quite some time now)...

Re:Question (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678993)

Im thinking of replacing the toilet in my bathroom, how close is BMW to making a 325 that can fill that need? Exchange is a messaging and collaboration server, Thuderbird and Sunbird are user applications.

Can it now track events, listed by date and time? (2, Interesting)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680657)

...because it couldn't when I last used it in March.

Seriously, I tried to organize my SXSW schedule using Sunbird.
1. I added all playings of all movies at SXSW Film that I wanted to see into the SXSW online calendar.
2. Then, I sync'd Sunbird to the online calendar.
3. So that I could make local edits, I exported/reimported the calendar data as a local calendar.
4. I looked at conflicts, etc., and determined which movies I could see on first showing versus catching reruns.
5. When I had it about half done, I saved it and closed Sunbird.
6. The next time I opened Sunbird, I discovered that various events had been shifted by 1 or 4 hours ahead or behind. I could find no way to set the time zone for these events to correspond to my local time zone, and I could not find a pattern between the events that had problems and those that didn't time shift.
7. I tried to manually fix the failures, manually deleting the entries and recreating them locally. It didn't help.
8. ???
9. I gave up and used the crappy SXSW online tool, since I didn't want to sign up for a Google account and those were the only options.

(FYI all online stuff I could find about this related to the DST shift, and told me to install Microsoft patches. All of those patches were already in place before I installed Sunbird or found any of these problems.)

Re:Lightning Is Released, Too (2, Funny)

cmdrTacyo (899875) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678103)

I cop bentleys ya'll copy sunbirds
I use Microsoft ya'll use sunbirds
I destory women, some say I son-birds chyeaaaaa
I get modded flamebait and troll but that's just how I roll
Should be informative or funny cause that's just how I roll
Ya'll brothas funny like Uwe Boll
I'm the numba 1 slashdot hustla
Got a lot of /. customa's
Holla at me for that crack linux code
Binary strings node by node
With more iq points then emode

Re:Lightning Is Released, Too (1)

DNeoMatrix (1098085) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680019)

I don't need Exchange support, but can I sync it with a regular ubuntu LDAP server? if so - any tutorials?

What would be cool ... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19677831)

Is a combined / integrated application that incorporated Firefox, Thunderbird and this Sunbird... that each part could be run separately if you wished.

It could save on the download because each part would share the UI code, networking code, etc, given that they're all built upon a custom platform layer, and each download replicates that.

Ah well, I'm sure it will never happen.

Re:What would be cool ... (3, Funny)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677867)

Thank you - best laugh I've had all day. What should we call this all in one thing? I don't think anything like it has ever been done before. :)

Re:What would be cool ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678093)

Mo Kong?

Re:What would be cool ... (4, Informative)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678287)

Maybe we could call it SeaMonkey or something... Hmm...

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ [mozilla.org]

I know you know this exists, but it's polite to include a URL when you're sassing someone who doesn't. ;)

Re:What would be cool ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678819)

It's too bad, though, that seamonkey doesn't have a supported calendar anymore.

Re:What would be cool ... (1)

Soylent Beige (34394) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679817)

Dropping my previous moderatations on this thread (grumble).

There is a Calendar Extension for Seamonkey: http://highlandsun.com/hyc/mozilla/ [highlandsun.com]

Re:What would be cool ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19680381)

If only Seamonkey had the look and feel of Firefox/Thunderbird...

Re:What would be cool ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19681975)

If only Seamonkey had the look and feel of Firefox/Thunderbird...

You mean, if only it was designed for retarded chimpanzees? No thanks, it's far superior the way it is.

Re:What would be cool ... (0, Redundant)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678291)

WoodDragon maybe? I know it sucks, but I'd like to maintain sometime similar to the other Mozilla naming schemes. Truthfully I got to pondering and thought "SeaMonkey" had a nice ring to it, but unfortunately it's already been taken for some other project. I'm sure if we presented our idea to them though they'd relinquish the name for the sake of progress. I doubt their project is going anywhere anyways.

sounds like the XUL Runner idea (2, Informative)

centinall (868713) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678799)

what you're describing sounds a lot like what they wanted to do with XUL Runner. Each mozilla app could be packaged as a plugin for XUL Runner. So, you would have XUL Runner installed and then you could just download and install the firefox plugin, the thunderbird plugin, the sunbird plugin, etc... They had scheduled this for firefox 3, but it looks like it's not going to happen at least for now.
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2 007/05/xul_and_xulrunner_investment.html [mozillazine.org]

Getting off topic a little, but I'm surprised that during all the recent talk of Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX, no one brought up XUL or WebKit as an alternative to a rich application framework(don't know what else to call them...). Neither of these is that ready to compete (mainly because of multimedia issues) with flash and silverlight, but they're no less ready than JavaFX at the least.

Re:sounds like the XUL Runner idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19682111)

Each mozilla app could be packaged as a plugin for XUL Runner.

Er, no. They wouldn't be "plugins for XULRunner" any more than Java applications are "plugins for the JRE".

Can sync (sort of) with exchange (4, Informative)

also-rr (980579) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677859)

If you are dedicated it's possible to pull your appointments from an exchange server, covert to iCal, and then import them into Sunbird.

I still prefer KOrganiser, not least because it has an exchange plug in [kde.org] . Integration with the mail client is also better in my opinion.

In fact Kontact is overall a fantastic piece of software. My only gripe is the fact that it's handling of IMAP mailboxes is horrific, but I believe that is slated for a total revamp in KDE4.

Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (1)

forsetti (158019) | more than 7 years ago | (#19677963)

If you are dedicated it's possible to pull your appointments from an exchange server, covert to iCal, and then import them into Sunbird.

How do you pull your appointments from an exchange server?

Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (3, Funny)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678023)

you are obviously not dedicated. get back to us when you are.

Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (1)

also-rr (980579) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678549)

Pull from exchange to iCal with e2i [mycvs.org] and then import from iCal into whatever calendar system you like.

Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (3, Funny)

MajorBlunder (114448) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678675)

If you are dedicated it's possible to pull your appointments from an exchange server, covert to iCal, and then import them into Sunbird.

Yes, but in order to be that dedicated you would first have to be committed... To a to a highly secure facility for the chronically insane

Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678757)

With this latest announcement of Google Calendar Sync ability this opens up the option of getting my Outlook at work to sync up with my Sunbird at home on my Mac OS X desktop via a couple of hops.

1. Outlook PC at work to ScheduleWorld.com using a Funambol client to extract from Outlook.
2. ScheduleWorld.com to Google Calendar via ScheduleWorld's Google sync ability. You can make step #2 automatic by enabling this in the preferences of your ScheduleWorld (free) account.
3. Sync at home from Google Calendar to Sunbird.

ScheduleWorld has a link to Thunderbird / Sunbird, but I have had limited success with it. If the sync ability is built in to Sunbird, this should be a way smoother approach.

Let the calendar integration begin!

Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (2, Interesting)

WonderPhil (1121695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679947)

Re-posting under my login vs my first AC post:
With this latest announcement of Google Calendar Sync ability this opens up the option of getting my Outlook at work to sync up with my Sunbird at home on my Mac OS X desktop via a couple of hops.

1. Outlook PC at work to ScheduleWorld.com using a Funambol client to extract from Outlook.
2. ScheduleWorld.com to Google Calendar via ScheduleWorld's Google sync ability. You can make step #2 automatic by enabling this in the preferences of your ScheduleWorld (free) account.
3. Sync at home from Google Calendar to Sunbird.

ScheduleWorld has a link to Thunderbird / Sunbird, but I have had limited success with it. If the sync ability is built in to Sunbird, this should be a way smoother approach.

Let the calendar integration begin!

Half way there? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19677875)

0.5 to go.

Exchange Required (4, Insightful)

imag0 (605684) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678071)

I would *love* to use it- but without Exchange calendaring support, it will be effectively a non starter for me and for thousands of other geeks out there who would love to use Thunderbird as their primary mail client at work.

Re:Exchange Required (0, Redundant)

amper (33785) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678591)

Screw Exchange. Exchange support is the last thing in the world that the Sunbird team should be working on. The whole point of this project should be to get people to *stop* using Exchange. This is IMHO, the single most important issue facing the open source and free software movements. Exchange and Outlook are so often held up as the reason why corporations are tied to Microsoft platforms, and we need to break the hegemony.

Re:Exchange Required (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678679)

Screw Exchange. Exchange support is the last thing in the world that the Sunbird team should be working on. The whole point of this project should be to get people to *stop* using Exchange.

Then you better bring to the table the features that Exchange has that folks want. There is no good central calendar sharing server software in the OSS world that can do what Exchange can and integrates everything together with email. It simply doesn't exist, so folks won't migrate for that reason.

A good first step in moving would be to integrate your client so that it can use exchange until an OSS exchange server replacement is made. That's what the grandparent wanted, and it's a very reasonable request.

The vast masses aren't going to migrate away from MS based on principle. They want things that work. You aren't going to break the hegemony until you provide them with something that works as well. Sunbird isn't there yet. Not by a long shot.

Re:Exchange Required (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679205)

Sunbird doesn't need to work with Exchange. What we need is a Exchange server replacement that will work with Outlook and Sunbird.
It is easier to migrate a single server than a thousand clients.
Once you have a server that that supports Sunbird "and Sunbird+Thunderbird can do everything Outlook can" it will be easy to migrate people off of Outlook.

Re:Exchange Required (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 7 years ago | (#19682491)

There already is a drop-in replacement for Exchange (though I forget what it's called).

I looked into it. At the time I looked into it, it had the following things which made it a problem for me:

1. Entirely proprietary. (There may have been an open version but it was severely crippled)
2. Dependent on Active Directory.
3. Poor/no support for IMAP (this has since been fixed, but IMAP support is at 1.0)
4. (This is the big killer) Per-client pricing which winds up being near enough the same price as Exchange.

That was the best alternative I could find - and the only one which didn't require installing some half-baked sucky plugin for Outlook which sort-of works and sort-of doesn't. Of course, because I'd now be running some other product than Exchange, if I hit problems there's no reason why they couldn't point the finger at Outlook and why Microsoft couldn't point the finger at them - so the support could easily be effectively pointless. Not really an acceptable business risk if it's going to cost me the same as Exchange anyway and require me to set up the same Active Directory environment if I don't already have it.

The only other option is something Web-based, such as Horde [horde.org] but at the end of the day, most business users don't care about the server. They just want the client they like (ie. Outlook) to work.

Re:Exchange Required (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#19683739)

Well I wouldn't call that an Open Source replacement for Exchange.
"he only other option is something Web-based, such as Horde but at the end of the day, most business users don't care about the server. They just want the client they like (ie. Outlook) to work."

Yep that is why it would be easier to get ride of Exchange by replacing the server.
Heck My office doesn't have an Exchange server and I would love to have a FOSS version of Exchange. The problem is it would have to work with both Outlook and Thunderbird.

Re:Exchange Required (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19683037)

The lack of a viable Exchange replacement is, IMHO, the biggest obstacle to migrating off Microsoft. Not a "challenge" or a "compromise", but an actual reason for not moving off Microsoft, end of story. I have tried Open-Xchange and a few others projects. They are really not anywhere near a viable migration path at this time. Not a criticism of any project, just my opinion of where they are right now.

Exchange support is not the key (and probably best not even attempted) but basic Exchange feature equivalence is.

The good thing is that MS Exchange provides an excellent working model, in terms of base functionality, of what such a system needs to do. Lightning for is a great step on email/calendaring UI integration, albeit a small one towards the larger goal.

Re:Exchange Required (2, Insightful)

Sebastopol (189276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679009)

Screw Exchange.

Then Sunbird is doomed to a small niche.

Apparently you've missed the last 10 "revolutions".

Please Fix It (3, Funny)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678795)

Please use your influence as a Microsoft customer to get them to add CalDAV support to Exchange, in the spirit of cooperation and interoperability. Does anybody know if the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is looking to standards for their calendering systems as well?

Re:Please Fix It (1)

grounded_roamer (794712) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679367)

A month ago I had a look at our corporate exchange server settings, and AFAIR it has CalDav support.

Re:Exchange Required (0, Troll)

bl8n8r (649187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19683747)

> I would *love* to use it- but without Exchange calendaring support, it will be effectively a non starter for me

I guess you're using windows/IE/Outlook. Which problems *have* been starters for you then? Obviously they are working for you. The corrupt PST files? Or maybe the lack of address book export? Oh, maybe you're in love with not being able to function on Usenet, or maybe the vendor lock-in has you keyed in a masochistic way. Please tell us, thousands of geeks want to know.

Problems? (1)

ThisIsWhyImHot (1121637) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678169)

I just installed this a few hours ago and I'm having problems with it crashing firefox. I tried a reinstall but it didn't change anything. Anyone else having these problems?

Re:Problems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678559)

Did you try to do what it says to do on the notes page if you are having strange problems? It might be another bad extension in firefox that's causing the problems. Start it in safe mode and see if it persists...

Re:Problems? (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680313)

> Anyone else having these problems?

My only problem is that I can't figure out why it's an app in the first place and not a website.

Wedged (1)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678175)

I already wedged it trying to install it on my Mac. I guess it doesn't like important my huge iCal database, the program is totally frozen.

Nevermind (1)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678261)

It just took over 5 minutes to import my iCal database. no big deal, seems to work pretty nicely. So far I like it better than iCal.

No thanks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19678381)

Google funds mozilla. (so far 150 million dollars)
Google buys DoubleClick.
Google makes money from ads.
If mozilla stoped ads Google would be unhappy.

IE, Opera and Safari like ads.

No thank yuo.

Darwin Calendar Server Support? (4, Interesting)

amper (33785) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678497)

This should be the number one priority for the Sunbird team, if it's not already working (anyone have info on this?). Apple will have iCal 2 out with Mac OS X v10.5 in October, and the iCal Server with Mac OS X Server v10.5. Darwin Calendar Server is available for testing [calendarserver.org] on Mac OS X v10.4, and should also run on any UNIX-like system.

That's a pretty stupid number one priority (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19679155)

considering this thing can't sync with any pda at all ever

Re:That's a pretty stupid number one priority (1)

defaria (741527) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680839)

http://finchsync.com/ [finchsync.com] Can't sync... Bullshit!

BFD (0, Troll)

kristopher_d (1024113) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678637)

You still can't send a meeting request, so who cares? So often the simplest rules are forgotten. Get the basics of useability working, then tweak and upgrade.

Re:BFD (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679757)

I once believed that career success meant nobody could tell you how to dress or what time to be where.

I still believe that, but extend it to include, "nobody can require you to use Word, Exchange, or Notes."

Re:BFD (1)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680799)

According to the release notes, Lightning can send meeting invitations.

Looks awesome! (1)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 7 years ago | (#19678915)

I've been using Sunbird for a while now as my sole calendaring app for my tech. consulting business. It's been great, given a bug here and there (but who doesn't encounter bugs in OL/Exchange?). I've also installed it as a Webdav shared calendar for one of my clients, and they love it too. Never had a problem with it, save the timezone issue a while back (but who didn't have issues with that?)

Now the events in Sunbird 0.5 are shadowed, looks much nicer. Thanks guys!!

Oh, and if anyone wants to make an opensourced Sunbird Palm sync plugin, I'd be willing to pay for the development. That's one of the only things I'm waiting for with Sunbird - other than that, it's done everything I wanted it to.

Re:Looks awesome! (2)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679201)

Bidirectional Pocket Pc Sync.

I'd switch in an instant if it had support.

Re:Looks awesome! (1)

Morel (67425) | more than 7 years ago | (#19681869)

If you're serious about getting Palm sync to work, send me an email. I'm looking for people to support a project to do exactly that.

Cheers,

Morel

Congratulations to the team (2, Insightful)

addie macgruer (705252) | more than 7 years ago | (#19679123)

I do love this programme, it ties together all the nonsense that I have / am forced to use so that I know what I'm doing...

* my own iBook, running iCal

* iPod sync'ed off of iCal

* Novell Groupwise at work, on both company Dell laptop and desktop

* Windows Mobile 2003 PIM thing as my work mobile phone

And what runs on everything? The open source stuff, running on many platforms and generating files to import for everything. No agenda as to 'doesn't import / export files for other platforms'. Cracking interface too, simplicity itself. Perfection is when there's nothing extraneous left to remove.

Keep up the good work!

Too late, Google Calendar wins. (1)

xant (99438) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680337)

I was the first one to download Sunbird 0.0.1alpha and try it out, and even use its integration with iCal resources. But it was crashy, and the features it had were flaky. I'm sure they've improved matters since then.

But I'm not gonna use it now, because I've found Google Calendar. SMS support alone is worth the switch. It also has contacts integration so I can invite people to meetings from my contact list, and it has an upsell story: You can run Google Apps for Domains and get the PIM/Groupware features people rely on from Exchange, but managed and cheaper.

Google Sync is the most important... (3, Interesting)

DTemp (1086779) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680595)

Syncing with google calendar is the most profound new feature to me. Having a calendar stored on one computer is no good to someone who moves between several computers. This is the same reason I use IMAP email, store my sent emails on the IMAP server so I can read even them from whereever I am, and why I DONT use gmail: because it doesnt support IMAP.

Off topic: anyone hear any rumors about gmail supporting IMAP?

Re:Google Sync is the most important... (1)

DTemp (1086779) | more than 7 years ago | (#19680729)

Oh right, and I also dont use gmail because I cant stand web-based email.

Re:Google Sync is the most important... (1)

Bardsley (946251) | more than 7 years ago | (#19681621)

I agree that syncing to google is probably the most important feature but I was using the previous release of sunbird (0.2 I think) with all my google calendar data. This is still possible in 0.5 but it still doesn't seem possible to add an event to google via Sunbird. Does anyone know how to do this? Am I missing something?

Re:Google Sync is the most important... (2, Informative)

Bardsley (946251) | more than 7 years ago | (#19681811)

Should have looked before I posted. Bidirectional access to Google Calendar from Sunbird is possible with the Provider for Google Calendar extension [mozilla.org] ...

Re:Google Sync is the most important... (1)

Virgil Tibbs (999791) | more than 7 years ago | (#19683289)

cheers... i was going to point this out but you have solved it for em and made my day :)
that etension should be included by default though...

It's nice that the Mozilla suite... (1)

akahige (622549) | more than 7 years ago | (#19682155)

...of apps is making forward progress.

Now all they need to do is to create a decent contact manager. And no, Thunderbird does not count as a contact manager, decent or otherwise.

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