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iPhone Doesn't Surf Fast Enough for Jobs

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the must-go-faster-must-go-fastr dept.

436

ElvaWSJ writes with a link to a Wall Street Journal interview with Steve Jobs and AT&T's CEO Randall Stephenson. As you can imagine, they're pretty enthusiastic. Just the same, they address the possibility that the iPhone will slow internet access on Ma Bell's cell network. "Mr. Jobs acknowledged that the company's new iPhone won't surf the Internet as fast as he would like on the network, called "Edge," but added that the device's ability to connect to Wi-Fi hotspots would give consumers a speedier alternative for Web browsing. For his part, Mr. Stephenson said the iPhone represents a broader push by AT&T into Wi-Fi services, including, potentially, mobile Internet calling. The two men also discussed the iPod's "halo effect" and reflected on the origins of their corporate partnership."

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436 comments

Not much choice (4, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688121)

Since AT&T was supposedly the only provider who would agree to Apple's list of detailed demands, it's likely they had little choice but to accept their network. It's not like other providers were lining up for a chance at it.

ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (5, Informative)

Gary W. Longsine (124661) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688221)

AT&T has an HSDPA [wikipedia.org] (3G) network, but there are two issues with it. (1) It's not widely deployed (a few dozen cities, compared to EDGE, which is everywhere that AT&T offers cell service). (2) Although the network is quite fast, the chipsets that support it presently consume too much power. Apple apparently wants a lower power chipset so that battery life of the iPhone isn't adversely affected.

EDGE is a slow network. (4, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688125)

Simply put: it ain't 3G. That's going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks for iPhone. It's one of the reasons why I won't be buying one, despite the fact that I drooled over the iPhone initially.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (1, Insightful)

Isca (550291) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688183)

I still think that it's a intended smart marketing move. Get people interested in the iPhone, sells millions of copies, then when the hype starts to fade, during the holiday season, release a new EDGE capable iPhone, and start lowering the price of the current models a bit to capture more market. Betting that they can generate alot of hype just before x-mas this year on new flash memory sizes isn't a good bet... ooohhh 16 gigs of flash -- look at this model of iPod, it has 80 gigs... The size increase, while significant, wouldn't be enough to hype. However, adding EDGE would be. Plus, the flash memory market being as colatile as it has been lately, they can't guarantee their profits/price per gig when they started planning for this for more than 12 months out reliably. This gives them an major hype-able new feature if the larger flash sizes are still to expensive to make an apple sized profit.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (2, Informative)

Isca (550291) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688203)

heh... volatile not colatile(?)... I should really use that "preview" feature :)

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (5, Funny)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688451)

Gotta love /. moderation. You get modded flamebait when you correct the spelling in your own post... : p

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (3, Funny)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688735)

Gotta love /. moderation. You getting modded funny for pointing out that the parent got modded flamebait for correcting the spelling in his own post... :p

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (5, Interesting)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688215)

Agree. Though the problem is not that GPRS (with or without EDGE) is slow as a network. The problem is that the ubiquity of the Blackberry has largely driven it over capacity in the places where the demand for mobile computing is likely to be the highest - commuter routes and tourist areas.

Here are some number from the UK Vodafone GPRS (non-Edge) network collected on a typical Cambridge to London Commute:

1. Business commuter trains (starting time) 7:15-8:45 and 17:15-18:45 97% downlink packet loss, totally unuseable. Looks like the BB is actually prioritised versus any other traffic to ensure that the people who enjoy a vibrator up their crotch have an instant vibration regularly.

2. Transition period: 8:45-9:15 and 16:15-17:15 - works in some areas depending on cell capacity

3. Non-business commuter trains 9:15-15:45 and after 19:15 - works flawlessly except a couple of holes in coverage. Speed is not great, but quite tolerable. Definitely useable for some minor surfing, checking mail, working on a couple of documents.

I would not expect ATT to be much different. In fact, it is likely to be worse. With or without Edge.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688241)

I would not expect ATT to be much different. In fact, it is likely to be worse. With or without Edge.. That is meant for a commuter route in the US of course. Something like Chicago or Seattle transit system.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (2, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688409)

1. Business commuter trains (starting time) 7:15-8:45 and 17:15-18:45 97% downlink packet loss, totally unuseable. Looks like the BB is actually prioritised versus any other traffic
I think prioritizing the blackberry, or at least text, isn't such a horrible idea. 1 jpg = 50 emails. Remember before video, before audio, it was static images that were going to come along and create the great "world wide wait." I guess long-range wireless is still at that point. Better to grant 50 people email access than websurfing to 1.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (5, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688459)

Better to grant 50 people email access than websurfing to 1.

But what if one of those 50 people is a...TERRORIST!?!?!

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688661)

Isn't email supposed to be a store and forward system though?

Correction (0, Redundant)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688279)

Simply put: it ain't 3G. For people who know WTF that is, it is going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks for iPhone.

Most people will get it for it's look.

Re:Correction (0, Flamebait)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688413)

People don't need to WTF that is. All they need to do is try surfing the Net with Smartphone A vs. Smartphone B. If Smartphone B is faster because it's on a 3G network, then people who care about the performance of their Net connectivity won't be going with Smartphone A, no matter who is pushing it and no matter how 'cool' it looks.

Most people will get it for it's look.


Here let me fix that for you:

Most teenage and some 20-something people will get it for it's look.


Re:Correction (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688489)

Here, let me correct "it's" to the possessive "its."

Re:Correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688569)

But if Smartphone B has a web browser that's like going back to the days of IE4, nobody will care that it's faster.

I love the way the anti-fanboys can ignore an elephant in the room... "my phone does web browsing too!" as if Opera Mobile can compare to the Safari version on the iPhone. Or they show me a device that does have a real Web browser... and is about eight times the size.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (5, Insightful)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688319)

Your right it aint 3G which means the entire country can use it instead of roughly two dozen cities that have 3G support leaving the rest of the country out in the cold.

Oh and the iPhone can last a day with normal consumption, not 45 minutes because 3G chipsets consumer insane amounts of power.

Seriously this not 3G crap is getting old. Its not 3G because in the US 3G is NOT READY YET.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688443)

Seriously this not 3G crap is getting old. Its not 3G because in the US 3G is NOT READY YET.


Tell that to Sprint.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (1)

the unbeliever (201915) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688555)

Sprint doesn't use GSM/GPRS, they use CDMA/EVDO, which can piggyback on Verizon and Alltel towers in certain markets. Since Verizon recently rolled out EVDO in all their markets, that helps a lot.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (4, Informative)

Scyber (539694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688531)

I thought most of cingular's 3G phones fall back to EDGE when not in a 3G coverage area. If that is the case, then the entire country could still use the iPhone if it was 3G.

Re:EDGE is a slow network. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688563)

I call BS on the power consumption. My Treo 750v supports UTMS (HSDPA upgrade coming) and lasts all day, not 45 minutes. It's more likely that the deciding factor for Apple was the physical size of the chips rather than the power consumption.

Wrong! (4, Interesting)

Mr2001 (90979) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688683)

EVDO is 3G, and it's available across the US [evdomaps.com] . And my EVDO phone's battery lasts a lot longer than 45 minutes.

The US is 3G ready - it's Cingular/AT&T and T-Mobile who aren't.

iPhone can't be used as a modem anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688399)

3G isn't that critical for intermittent mobile use.

I didn't get far... (1, Funny)

niceone (992278) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688141)

OK I made it half way through Job's first sentence, which was:

One of the things we feel is this is the biggest breakthrough in user interfaces in 23 years. Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons

hmmm...

Re:I didn't get far... (2, Insightful)

profplump (309017) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688177)

You had a commercially available computer before 1984 that had a mouse and a bit-map display and folders and icons? Or you got one in 1984 that wasn't from Apple?

Re:I didn't get far... (1, Informative)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688293)

You had a commercially available computer before 1984 that had a mouse and a bit-map display and folders and icons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa [wikipedia.org]

Re:I didn't get far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688473)

He said "brought us...". $10,000-$20,000 computers did not bring anything to the masses.

Re:I didn't get far... (5, Insightful)

xeno-cat (147219) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688579)

So Jobs should have appended, "...except, of course, for the Xerox Star. We all remember the Xerox Star right?"

There were several little incubator projects or outright commercial failures for GUI's in the early 80's. Macintosh was the one that brought it to the world. They are the ones that got it right. That gives them some pretty significant bragging rights.

Re:I didn't get far... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688339)

You had a commercially available computer before 1984 that had a mouse and a bit-map display and folders and icons? Or you got one in 1984 that wasn't from Apple?


Yes. [geocities.com]

Re:I didn't get far... (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688515)

I think the original poster was referring to the Lisa, which was Apple's own product that introduced the mouse and GUI. Jobs certainly should be aware of his own company's history.

GEM was a copy of the Mac (or at least the Lisa), from this article [wikipedia.org] :

A new module, GEM AES (Application Environment Services), provided the window management and UI elements, and GEM Desktop used both to provide a Mac-like GUI. The 8086 version of the entire system was first demoed at the 1984 COMDEX [1], and shipped as GEM/1 on 28 February 1985 [2]. ...

At this point Apple Computer sued DRI in what would turn into a long dispute over the "look and feel" of the GEM/1 system, which was in fact an almost direct copy of the Macintosh (with some elements bearing a closer resemblance to those in the earlier Lisa). This eventually led to DRI being forced to change several basic features of the system. Apple would later go on to sue other companies for similar issues.

No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688693)

The Atari ST is from 1985. Apple was shipping the Lisa in 1983 and the Mac in 1984.

Both are based on work by PARC, that's true.

Re:I didn't get far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688185)

One of the things we feel is this is the biggest breakthrough in user interfaces in 23 years. Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons

That's like Lee Iacocca saying that the USA invented the car.

Hint: it was a Mr. Benz. Mr. Benz had a daughter named Mercedes.

Re:I didn't get far... (1)

The Ultimate Fartkno (756456) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688257)

> Hint: it was a Mr. Benz. Mr. Benz had a daughter named Mercedes ...and a generation of American strippers owes their careers to him.

Re:I didn't get far... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688211)

Minor nit: You got halfway through Jobs' second sentence. You reproduced his first sentence in your post in its entirety.

I'm not sure that iPhone's interface is revolutionary, though. It seems to be an evolutionary step, though a logical one, over existing mobile interfaces. What we're seeing is that 'Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field' again at its finest.

Re:I didn't get far... (2, Insightful)

juuri (7678) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688303)

And you stopped reading because?

I won't make any apologies for Job's well known asshole tendencies (but supposedly those are much more subdued since NeXT, guess winning does fix everything?) but all he is doing here is stating what really happened. Were the primitives and direct inspiration for the Mac gui borrowed from Xerox? Damn straight. They borrowed from other places too, but they had the foresight to slap it all together and shove it out to the masses. This is how humanity works people, we build on what others have done and sometimes we take an idea that seems trivial to one person (gui inside xerox that was never intended for consumers) and wring it through the brain of another person and out pops a whole new shift in perspective.

I'm sure in his heart, Jobs sincerely believes this is the biggest interface breakthrough in 23 years; you or I may not agree. If you pay close attention to Job's words he actually doesn't take credit for anything that Apple didn't do. Anything they co-opt and bring to market is always a "we" or an "us".

Re:I didn't get far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688427)

Its not the second part, its the first part of the sentence. Biggest breakthrough for mobile device in 23 years? Gimme a fucking break. Similar UI are already in the market. May be partially true for US market, but US is not entire world, right? Oh wait.. this is slashdot. My bad.

Re:I didn't get far... (1)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688507)

Apple borrows. Microsoft copies, eh?

Re:I didn't get far... (2, Insightful)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688749)

Actually, this seems to be the case quite often. Going from something like the Xerox Star to the Apple Lisa and the Mac is quite a feat (and Apple actually hired lots of people from Xerox, instead of just lifting their ideas). The first few versions of Windows, on the other hand, were just Macs with half the features cut out.

Re:I didn't get far... (1)

niceone (992278) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688585)

Yeah, I think I agree with everything you wrote. I hadn't really analysed why I stopped reading, but...

If you pay close attention to Job's words he actually doesn't take credit for anything that Apple didn't do. Anything they co-opt and bring to market is always a "we" or an "us".

That's it, I hate it when people say stuff like that. If you read it carefully, sure he doesn't claim anything, but to most people it will read it as Apple invented all the stuff he listed.

-sigh- (2, Insightful)

xhrit (915936) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688169)

"Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons, there really hasn't been much except for the evolution of that in the last 23 years."

Nice to see Apple continuing the fine corporate tradition ov copying other people's innovations and claiming them as their own.

They didn't say they invented it (3, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688223)

Those had been shelved by Xerox and it was the deal Apple made with Xerox that allowed them to create a product. They DID bring it to 'US'. 'US' being the consumer.

Re:-sigh- (3, Insightful)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688775)

Yeah, because you could buy a Xerox Star in 1984. No, wait, you couldn't, Apple actually did bring you those ideas.

Wow (5, Funny)

svendsen (1029716) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688179)

I was afraid we wouldn't see a single iPhone advertisement...I mean article today...my fears have been relived...

Re:Wow (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688393)

I was afraid we wouldn't see a single iPhone advertisement...I mean article today...my fears have been relived...
Not a chance I'm afraid. And in the coming days, lots more articles once people have their hands on them and do review and criticism after criticism.

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple, I'd like an iPhone, but I no longer want to read one more single word about them, I don't think I am alone in this.

All I can suggest is going to the firehose and voting iPhone articles down. There are dozens of iPhone "adverticles" every day, not all of them -- mercifully-- make it to the front page. Assuming the firehose is working as designed, I think there are just so many that it's inevitable that some will get published.

It's kind of the same with Wikipedia -- most stores about that, so called, "encyclopedia" have no bona fide geek or technology news in them, but there's such a strong cabal of submitters (presumably just proud of their own work and words) that articles get though anyway.

Not sure what value the firehose has. Is it just underused by the average slashdotter, and overused by cabals? Or is it just beta and not entirely functional. Or does the majority here want to read an iPhone or Wikipedia article a day?

Re:Wow (1)

Thwomp (773873) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688709)

You joke now but can you imagine what it will be like after 6pm!

In other news Steve Jobs was quoted saying "My birth cry will be the sound of every phone on this planet ringing in unison".

Not even out (0, Troll)

jzuska (65827) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688181)

It's not even out, and it's already obsolete.
They already have a 3g one in the works.
600 now, and 600 when the new one is out.
LAME

Re:Not even out (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688197)

That's thenormal MO for tech.
If you don't like that, I suggest you find an interest in wood working.

Re:Not even out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688267)

You must have never witnessed an Apple product launch before.

600 now, 1000 for 3g (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688553)

Not because the phone is faster, but because you won't be out of your subsidy period when the new one arrives. There's got to be a 3. Profit in here somewhere!

Reminds me of a European Country (0)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688201)

This reminds me of a European country that has "chic", coolness, etc. But then when it comes right down to it, namely "where's the Beef", well then ooopss...

Seriously, if the iPhone is ONLY really good on WiFi networks, why the iPhone? If you look at WiFi only, then well sorry folks the Origami or UMPC blows the iPhone out of the water. If we are comparing WiFi then the Origami can do everything and then some, and it is quite portable.

And wanna know something else, get the Samsung phone with the MP3 player and 3G and I have an iPhone killer.... Sorry, but this is a joke...

Re:Reminds me of a European Country (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688349)

Can I plug the Origami, UMPC, of Samsung into my Mac and have it sync with my iTunes library?

No? Then it isn't a music player as far as most of us are concerned.

It is telling that you compare iPhone's wifi (only) to Origami and UMPC. Then you compare its cell data connection to a Samsung phone. And totally ignore the fact that none of the above play music from iTMS.

What you FAIL to understand is that iPhone combines ALL of these features into one sleek package. It doesn't just do wifi as well as the Origami. It doesn't just look better than the Samsung. It doesn't just play my iTMS music. It isn't just the simplest smart phone with the best UI. It doesn't just have ground breaking visual voice messages, or multi touch inteface with no clunky mini-buttons. It does ALL of those things, really well, all packed into a normal sized cell phone package.

Watch. When every other person you pass on the street has iPhone, you hillbillys with your half screen half keypad dumb phones will be the laughingstock.

Re:Reminds me of a European Country (2, Funny)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688475)

>> Watch. When every other person you pass on the street has iPhone, you hillbillys with your half screen half keypad dumb phones will be the laughingstock. Ah! You mean Sheeple? Laughing at me? I dont mind that.

Re:Reminds me of a European Country (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688497)

>> Watch. When every other person you pass on the street has iPhone, you hillbillys with your half screen half keypad dumb phones will be the laughingstock. Ah! You mean Sheeple? Laughing at me? I dont mind that.


Do you mind being laughed at for your inability to quote properly?

Re:Reminds me of a European Country (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688595)

Or his 3-year-old horribly cliché sig? Funny that someone that intentionally puts "Vote for Pedro" as a sig calls other people "sheeple".

Re:Reminds me of a European Country (1)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688407)

Are you refering to the Samsung A990 phone that came out? It is a piece of crap. My girlfriend saved up for 6 months to buy one, and last night I tried to move her mp3 collection from her old phone miniSD to a microSD I had and it wouldn't work.

Turn's out the A990 requires a cable (not included) and you had to sync with Windows Media 10 and only uses WMA! Besides the fact I'm a linux user, this is just a step backwards. I thought we where passed the days of requiring special software to transfer songs to a device. Pretty much everything I've seen for the past 4-5 years (even those cheapo players down at Wallyworld for $32) are mass storage compliant letting you just copy your files to the SD card.

While she did keep it, just no music, I would have taken it back and utilized my 15 day return policy. Chalk one up for crippleware.

Halo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688205)

When Jobs states that iPhone will change the way we communicate I think it it this halo effect he is talking about. When iPhone becomes as ubiquitous as the iPod it will cause more people to look at internet access being just as important a component as voice when it comes to cellular service. With these rising expectations will come proper data support from carriers, fast enough to make suring from iPhone the same experience as surfing from any other Mac a person might have at home.

So called 'smart' phones have traditionally been the domain of corporate customers. Now that a really smart phone has arrived, in style, people who would not otherwise have bothered with them for personal use will flock to the stores. Since they will no longer have to put up with a clunky form factor and an absurd interface iPhone can be the true communication tool they have been seeking for some time. And with the increased demand you'll see carriers step up to compete with a broader spectrum of features.

Just like the Jobs led Apple has redefined the music industry, they'll redefine the cellular market. I think it was wise for AT&T to jump on this lucrative strategic alliance because it will give them a leg up on the competition when it comes to servicing an entirely new segment of the market: quality driven smart phone consumers.

If I were running an AT&T competitor right now I would be wondering why Jobs didn't approach me with this opportunity and what I could do to earn his approval. I wouldn't want to be left behind.

Re:Halo (4, Interesting)

nbvb (32836) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688371)

> If I were running an AT&T competitor right now I would be wondering why Jobs didn't approach me with this opportunity and what I could do to earn his approval. I wouldn't want to be left behind

Unless, of course, you're Verizon who had the balls to stand up to Apple. Right decision in the end or not, at least they stood up for their business.

If someone came to you and said:

1) We want you to agree to sell our product, sight unseen.
2) You have to cut all of your partners out of it.
3) We will tell you whether the phone can be replaced if a customer has a problem.
4) We want a percentage of service revenue.

- does that sound like a good business decision to you? You're going to alienate all of your other partners (i.e. Best buy, Walmart, etc..) You're going to alienate your customers (Sorry, we'd love to replace your handset Mr. Big-Important-VIP-Customer, but Apple said no. Can't help you.), and worst of all, you open the door for *EVERYONE* to take a piece of your service revenue - why wouldn't Motorola/LG/Samsung/etc. ask for the same deal? (You did it for Apple - either split revenue with us, or no RAZR2 for you.)

I agree - I think it would've kicked butt if VZW had the iPhone. A real 3G network (EV-DO) would complement iPhone wonderfully, as would a real voice network (GSM quality is crap. CDMA not only covers more area per tower, but it has a better vocoder as well.)

But can you blame them for turning it down? I would have, given the way Apple approached them.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-veriz on-iphone_x.htm [usatoday.com]

Re:Halo (1)

jpiggot (800494) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688637)

Yeah, Verizon can sure be proud of themselves. I bet it's been really refreshing to not be bothered by one of the largest product launches in the last few decades. I mean it's just a phone, right ? (the iPod was just an MP3 player, right ?) It's not like anyone has been "talking" about the iPhone. It's not like hordes of customers are going to be switching to AT&T Wireless.

You can bitch about how overhyped all this is and how other phones already do this and it's not 3G and blah blah blah - shut up, I want one, so do lots of other people. It's cool. It's looks like it works well. It's going to be seemless with my mac and share information really well. It's going to get updated with new features via software update, and that'll just "happen" when I plug it in to charge it. I'm not going to bitch when I have to replace it in four years, because that's a pretty good run for any tech device these days. I haven't used any applications that came on my Nokia. I'll use all the ones on the iPhone, because they look and act just like the software I'm using THIS VERY MINUTE. How many times do you Apple haters have to have this beaten into you ? We, the great unwashed, just want the damn thing to work. Make it easy. We're stupid. Not as smart as you, Mr. "I can build a computer out of tinfoil and Linux"

Oh, poor Verizon doesn't get to handle customer service complaints ? Jesus, it'll suck for AT&T not to listen to customers bitch when things go wrong. Whatever horror stories people have about Apple, I'll take their customer service ANY DAY over a friggin cell phone company. If my iPhone doesn't work, I'll take it into the Apple store at my local mall, where a helpful, perky 20-something will hand me a new one from the back. Have you dealt with cell phone insurance replacement plans recently ? Does the phrase "hell-bitch-hassle" ring a bell ?

Damn, Apple "forced" AT&T to let them set the conditions for sign up. Now I have to click a few buttons in iTunes, instead of watching a rep spend 30 minutes on each customer, slowly going through all the options and explaining to fat, retarded people what "anytime minutes" are. I sure am going to hate how fast and easy the signup process will be. Way to go, Verizon !! Don't let the man tell you how to make things easy and user-friendly !!

Please. AT&T needs to sit back and get paid. Apple is worth whatever money they're getting. You will never convince me otherwise.

Re:Halo (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688655)

But you forgot:

5) Look at what we did for the music industry

Which means that Apple redefined the entire business. Any label that turned down Apple when they came calling about iPod/iTMS has either wised up and jumped on the bandwagon too late or had better spend the last few dollars they are about to make on shutters to cover their windows when they vacate their buidling.

The future is plain enough for anyone with vision to see. iPhone will be the new word for cell phone. 5 years from now when you walk into a hospital you won't see "No cell phones" signs, you'll see a graphic of an iPhone with a circle and a slash through it, just like you do now for iPods (oh, I'm sorry, 'music players' to you few remaining holdouts).

Sure, Apple might eventually relent and let other carriers join in the revolution, but likely AT&T will always receive preferential terms. And probably inside access to the partculars of how to make their network use iPhone's industry leading hardware to its fullest.

But no, I'm not surprised they turned it down. The US cellular industry could be used as a model for how not to be visionary and instead rest on your laurels and hide behind regulation. But the time will come when consumers demand change, and they'll be driven to do so by iPhone.

Heresy (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688235)

Mr. Jobs: We have lots of people writing applications for our computers. We have almost one million people in our developer program. I don't think that's what matters to customers. What matters to customers is the experience they have using the product.
Everyone knows it's "Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers."

Or has Jobs put his finger on the real difference between Apple and Microsoft?

Revolutionary? (1)

another_fanboy (987962) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688265)

This is a revolutionary user interface [on the iPhone] -- multi-touch, direct action. It's pretty remarkable. I'm very excited.
He is exited about something PDA's have done for years. Many laptops, too, have had touchscreen capabilities for a while now. And with the exception of the touchscreen, the iPhone is one of many cell phones that can play music and view the web.
Revolutionary? Only in the sense that Apple could make it mainstream like they did with the iPod. But, like the iPod, this is nothing new.

WiFi (4, Interesting)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688277)

I'm amazed AT&T or any cell company would allow a cell to enter their market that has built in wifi. Won't this cut into their profits? Since anyone can go to McD's and check their email instead of having to pay their provider for the online minutes.

Re:WiFi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688529)

I'm amazed AT&T or any cell company would allow a cell to enter their market that has built in wifi. Won't this cut into their profits? Since anyone can go to McD's and check their email instead of having to pay their provider for the online minutes.

The phone is being bundled with an unlimited wireless data plan, so they make more money from you not using their system.

Re:WiFi (5, Insightful)

bruns (75399) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688549)

If you offer unlimited data plans with your device, having built in wifi means that the end user wont bog down the network as much when they are around a local wifi AP. If you rely strictly on the cellular network for data and people actually use the service they are paying for, the performance in general will start to suck if you haven't built out the network properly.

I'd say its AT&T protecting itself when problems start to crop up with their data network.

Re:WiFi (1)

CheeseTroll (696413) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688567)

On the other hand, if they sign people up with an unlimited data plan, they may be more than happy to have people pay for their data, but use someone else's bandwidth whenever possible.

I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (4, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688281)

Why did not apple buck the whole system and offere the iPhone as a unlocked device only.

that way you could get your choice of service, your phone is not held hostage by unscrupulous Service providers, and it would have forced a change in the way cellular companies abuse their customers.

a win,win,win situation.

Because (2, Informative)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688327)

Some of it's voice mail features required the carrier to change it's network. If you just put it on the market as an open device, no carrir is going to botherto spend the millions to change their network.

Of course, if the iPhone does become the next iPod, then other carriers will start to make changes to support those features. Then APple will open it to other carriers.

This is very Jobs. Get his foot in the door, then eventually be the hippest cat in the whole room.

Re:Because (1)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688583)

Apple could have dropped that visual voicemail feature, which is a far better alternative than being tethered to AT&T. Not to mention opens up the market to any provider that uses GSM (ie, most of the world). At this point, to sell iPhones in the middle east, Apple would have to make an agreement with each provider (and trust me, they'd wanna sell iPhones down there. Especially in the gulf countries, those guys change phones every 6 months to stay 'hip'. Cash cow.).

Apple could develop their own service. (ie http://www.downloadsquad.com/2005/12/15/gotvoice-g et-all-your-voicemails-online/ [downloadsquad.com] or http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/03/02/simulscrib e-transcribes-voicemail-into-text/ [downloadsquad.com] ) charge a monthly fee for it, and call it a day.

Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (1)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688525)

Agree, that's like Dell selling a computer that only works with AOL. What does Apple have to gain by ONLY selling via AT&T? I know if I was selling a product, I'd want it to be sold not only at Best Buy, but Target, Walmart, etc. Plus unless you're really rich or really hardcore, no one is going to spend a couple hundred dollars just to break their current contract to switch to AT&T to get a phone. Sells would have been threw the roof had it been available for any network. I would have bought one.

Lumpy, meet the dead horse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688533)

Hey, why don't you complain about the fact that the ipod doesn't have a replaceable battery. Wait, I know, why don't you start a, sure to be enlightening, thread on why Apple's refusal to support Mac clones is bad for the consumer.

Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (5, Insightful)

chill (34294) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688559)

You've drunk the Kool-Aid.

Apple is NOT your friend, and they are NOT trying to bring about a revolution for the little guy. They are trying to worm their way in to every possible aspect of getting your money. Why do you HAVE to go thru iTunes to set a ring tone? Why can't you just use an existing MP3 that you downloaded/copied over to the phone? Because Apple doesn't get a cut that way.

The phone is not unlocked because Apple gets a cut of the service from AT&T. The phone will most likely only be unlocked when Apple negotiates a cut from the other GSM service providers.

Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688713)

Why do you HAVE to go thru iTunes to set a ring tone?

I know, I know! It's because the iTunes Music Store EULA has stated for years and years now that you're not licensed to use any songs purchased as a ring tone. This provision is required by the music industry, which wants to sell ringtones. Apple is bound by their contract with the music industry here; other companies which do not have such a contract are free to provide the feature.

Ignore what it is, think of what it could be! (4, Funny)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688297)

What is up with Jobs selling nonexistent features?

Ringtone business gets a tease:
Mr. Jobs: One might imagine a lot of things down the road.
Mr. Jobs: There's a lot of things you can imagine down the road.

But you can forget 3G in revision one:
Mr. Jobs: No, we just don't comment on future stuff.

I also got a kick out of this:
Mr. Jobs: There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network.

Theft of service, it's the Apple way!

Re:Ignore what it is, think of what it could be! (2, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688351)

Don't want people to connect to your wi-fi? DOn't have your Wi-fi asking for connections.

Re:Ignore what it is, think of what it could be! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688673)

Well, check out FON [fon.com] then.

Does it autoconnect or manual to wifi (4, Insightful)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688305)

With all the hype over people getting sued and arrested for using someones open AP, I wonder if the iPhone autoconnects without user intervention or if it requires some manual selection. If auto this could cause legal problems as the user would be according to recent suits "stealing bandwith and computer fraud by illegally accessing an another persons network" I dont agree with it, but that appears to be the direction we're going.

Re:Does it autoconnect or manual to wifi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688597)

This is exactly what I was going to say.

Remember kids, it's a fucking federal offense to access an open access point. Legally it would be better to break into someone's office/house and use their computer since this is a civil offense (make sure to steal the computer on the way out).

Server Side Compression? (1)

Brit_in_the_USA (936704) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688313)

Does the iphone browser incorporate a server side compression system (a la Opera Mobile)? - that would seem to be a good solution for speeding up a slow data link to a device that has limited display capabilities anyway.

How about some plugins to block graphical advertisements or other unwanted content on popular sites (a la greasemonkey) ?

There are so many options to optimize web browsing for such devices - this slowness web surfing MUST have come up in beta testing - what solutions are included?

Warphoning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688333)

Jobs: There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network.

Wow. Don't use your iPhone in Singapore.

Favorite part of the interview... (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688383)

WSJ: Steve, how are you feeling now about how this device will impact your iPod business? Will it cannibalize iPod sales in any meaningful way?

Mr. Jobs: We can report to you that it hasn't so far.
I think they should actually wait until it is released before they can tell if it's going to or not. :-D

Zing ...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688429)

I think they should actually wait until it is released before they can tell if it's going to or not. :-D

The sound that you just heard was the delicious humour of Steve's reply zipping at light speed (actually a bit less than light speed since Steve's RDF is known to actually slow light) over your head.

Re:Zing ...... (1)

catbutt (469582) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688737)

I'm not sure he was trying to be funny. There was a very real possibility that people would not buy an iPod in the last few months, because they knew the iPhone was on the way and it would make their iPod seem outdated. I know that for me, after seeing the iPhone demonstrated, iPods seem less exciting and cool.

I think it is significant that iPod sales have not seemed to be negatively affected by the iPhone announcement.

AT+T jsut boosted EDGA speeds (5, Informative)

Brit_in_the_USA (936704) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688391)

Seems that there are credible reports coming in that in the last 24 hours AT+T have increased EDGE speeds to >200 k bits/s. This should be good news to all AT+T EDGE users:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/atandt-customer s-seeing-sudden-boost-in-edge-speeds/ [engadget.com]

As we know, increased means they probably removed some artificial cap....

I wonder how many days will go by until the drop the speed again? I guess there will be a halo effect of new iPhone buyers showing their friends - "hey look at this I can browse the web" - just for the sake of it....

Apple should have went with Verizon first. (1, Flamebait)

MtViewGuy (197597) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688421)

Flame me all you want, but I think Apple blew it by going with Cingular/AT&T for the iPhone.

Apple should have gone with Verizon Wireless, which would have given the iPhone the ability to access EVDO wireless networking that has data transfer rates in the 350 to 800 kilobits per second range. In that case, the iPhone would have actually been a truly useful device to access the Internet and corporate email systems.

Re:Apple should have went with Verizon first. (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688487)

Apple actually contacted Verizon first but Verizon said no (probably because Apple wouldn't give Verizon the control every other cell phone manufacturer gives them). So apple then went to Cingular and they said yes.

taken out of context (2, Informative)

rishio2 (1121987) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688431)

nice how the rest of his response was cut out... "Mr. Jobs: You know every (AT&T) Blackberry gets its mail over EDGE. It turns out EDGE is great for mail, and it works well for maps and a whole bunch of other stuff. Where you wish you had faster speed is...on a Web browser. It's good enough, but you wish it was a little faster. That's where sandwiching EDGE with Wi-Fi really makes sense because Wi-Fi is much faster than any 3G network. What we've done with the iPhone is we've made it so that it will automatically switch to a known Wi-Fi network whenever it finds it. So you don't have to go hunting around, resetting the phone, flipping a switch or doing anything. Most of us have Wi-Fi networks around us most of the time at home and at work. There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network. What we found is the combination is working really well. When we looked at 3G, the chipsets are not quite mature, in the sense that they're not low-enough power for what we were looking for. They were not integrated enough, so they took up too much physical space. We cared a lot about battery life and we cared a lot about physical size. Down the road, I'm sure some of those tradeoffs will become more favorable towards 3G but as of now we think we made a pretty good doggone decision. "

iPhone + Wifi Theft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19688433)

From TFA:

There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network. What we found is the combination is working really well.

must-go-faster-must-go-fastr (2, Funny)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688479)

Someone needs to tell Zonk that removing one vowel won't reload Slashdot on his iPhone any faster.

This great new product! (4, Funny)

packetmon (977047) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688505)

It will surf teh interweb, answer email, make calls, play MP3's, wash your car, clean your house, spank you off. FINELINE PRINT: Product may not work as advertised. In order to benefit from our huge technologically advanced vertically intergrated technologically advanced technology, users must first purchase an advanced proactive neurally intergrated vertically horizontal network card from our vertically implemented horizontally vectored service provider.

I could have guessed this. (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688629)

While I don't have any experience with the newer 3G wireless internet services and other such things, using my CDMA phone with 1X internet is painfully slow, even for playing the online "who wants to be a millionaire" game, or even load up the google mobile search page. Not only that the batter gets drained pretty fast if you're doing any kind of prolonged surfing. I imagine that anything faster would just draw more battery power. I'm not sure whether mobile internet will ever be a good thing. Even if you had 802.11x, most laptops have severely reduced battery life if you're using the WiFi chip.

Same as 1.5 Mbps is enough for anyone. (3, Insightful)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 6 years ago | (#19688647)

More bullshit from AT&T:

Mr. Stephenson: If you think about wireless broadband networks, EDGE is the only ubiquitous nationwide broadband network deployed today. It's a 300-plus kilobit type service. We're selling in the tens of thousands every single month of smart phones that operate on nothing but EDGE. The service experience is really, really good and what you're going to see with the iPhone is the caching technology that Steve and the Apple guys have developed here makes the EDGE experience even better. Between the Wi-Fi and the EDGE coverage, this is a really good experience.

High latency, low bandwidth broadband. Huzzah!

Sprint's EVDO network is deployed as widely as AT&T's EDGE network (not even all of AT&T's GSM network is EDGE). Worse, Sprint's EVDO revA network is deployed in most metropolitan areas, nearly all interstate highways, and nearly all tourist areas.

For AT&T, Edge is "all the speed you need", up until they deploy HSDPA, in which case that will be, "all the speed you need". Just like this: http://www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/03/30/att-proje ct-lightspeed-and-the-jedi-mind-trick/ [nyquistcapital.com]
Mr.Stephenson said that AT&T's field tests have shown 'no discernable difference' between AT&T's 1.5 Mbps service and Comcast's 6 Mbps because the problem is not in the last mile but in the backbone.

Ridiculous
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