×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Captain America Buried in Arlington National Cemetary

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the lotta-weepy-spandex dept.

United States 314

coondoggie writes "Earlier this year Captain America was slain as the climax to Marvel Comics' Civil War event. The renowned hero will be buried in the next issue of Marvel Comics' 'Fallen Son,' due on July 5. 'Writer Jeph Loeb has been busy working through the stages of grief in his most recent titles, according to an Associated Press story. A book centered on Wolverine dealt with denial; one with the Avengers covered anger; and Spider-Man battled depression. With the story line so relevant to present-day politics, and the timing of the latest issue so precise, it's hard not to think the whole thing is one big slam on the government.'"

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

314 comments

RIP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729371)

RIP Captain America!

Re:RIP (2, Funny)

Edie O'Teditor (805662) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729655)

Even if he never rescued you from villains or saved your hometown from a volcano, Captain America's impact on contemporary culture cannot be denied. He truly was an American icon.

Uh, spoil much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729425)

How about telling us Optimus Prime dies in the Transformers movie, too?

Re:Uh, spoil much? (4, Funny)

Kilraven (1101873) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729597)

Prime dying in a Transformers movie isn't a spoiler. You want to talk about spoilers in the Transformer movie? Tell me whether or not "the Touch" is played during the climactic battle in Bay's flick.

Re:Uh, spoil much? (3, Funny)

Hanners1979 (959741) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729819)

Prime dying in a Transformers movie isn't a spoiler.

Maybe not, but you have just brought on a relapse of Post Traumatic Stress for thousands of us who were kids in the mid-80s... ;)

Re:Uh, spoil much? (2, Funny)

Kilraven (1101873) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729999)

Post Traumatic Stress?

You must be speaking of the realization that Stan Bush's voice is the most powerful weapon in the Universe, capable of destroying a sentient planet.

Re:Uh, spoil much? (1)

SlamMan (221834) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730271)

No clue, but it was playing in the rest rooms of the local theater last night when I was dragged to see Spiderman 3 again last night.

Re:Uh, spoil much? (1)

Kilraven (1101873) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730553)

Dragged to see Spiderman 3? I'm not sure gunpoint could force me to watch emo-Tobey dancing again.

Unless, of course, you were slipped a rufie then carried to the theater.

To the author... (1)

vigmeister (1112659) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729429)

By killing off Captain America, aren't you letting the neocons win? I'd rather have seen an episode where Captain America punishes a perjuring White House aide...

Cheers!

Re:To the author... (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729477)

Ah, but the perjuring White House aide was a hero just like Cap. He fell on a grenade to save his boss. Then his boss'es boss brought him back to life

Re:To the author... (5, Insightful)

db32 (862117) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729519)

Given that the Capt sorta is the American spirit and all that, I think his death is a bit more appropriate. We have been crushed and sold as a people. We have allowed our constitution to be highjacked, we have allowed our laws to be sold, we have allowed fear to rule our lives. There are a handful that are upset about this, but they are a minority by a long shot. I can't count the times I hear "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide" when I talk about how wrong the spying is, or even "Well did it, so why are you upset now?" like I was alive or aware of the others that have done it, or that the current crop aren't more blatant about breaking more laws to do it.

The fact is, most people don't seem to care. King George was reelected. You can point to his low approval rating, but congress is even lower, and noone is actually doing anything about it. Slick Willy got a blowjob and it was the end of the world, King George starts a war, usurps our freedoms, potentially stole 2 elections...well...that doesn't make as good sensationalist dirty gossip story so noone cares.

American Spirit is all but dead. Noone cares or is too busy shoveling themselves out of debt in our insane buy now pay later, keeping up with the Jones' culture. Lets not forget our wonderful lawmakers passed that nice law to make sure those poor credit companies don't have their money stolen by dirty citizens declaring bankruptcy!

Re:To the author... (2, Informative)

0123456 (636235) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729637)

"Slick Willy got a blowjob and it was the end of the world"

No, he committed perjury. Wasn't he disbarred for that?

"King George starts a war, usurps our freedoms, potentially stole 2 elections...well...that doesn't make as good sensationalist dirty gossip story so noone cares."

The Democrats now run Congress; why aren't they impeaching Bush?

Ah, because most of them voted for Bush's War, and neither side wants to get into the habit of impeaching Presidents as they don't want theirs to be tossed out of office.

Re:To the author... (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729765)

The Democrats now run Congress; why aren't they impeaching Bush?

Sure, while it only takes a simple majority in the house to impeach...

Chief Justice John Roberts would oversee the trial and
It takes 67 Senate votes to convict. (Dems hold "51" but that's 49 with 2 independents)

Re:To the author... (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729965)

So in other words, there's nothing stopping them from at least getting the impeachment. Considering they've only been able to pass symbolic, non-binding resolutions in defiance of the president, one would think they'd jump at the chance to make such a loud (if ultimately inconsequential) statement.

I thiink the GP post has it right; they don't want to expose their own to the same treatment.

Re:To the author... (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729913)

because unlike the last President where the republicans owned most of the house and where able to force through a extremely unpopular impeachment proceding, the Democrats only own a slight majority.

But more importantly because impeaching him wont get us out of Iraq any faster, which the Democrat leaders stated quite clear to the rest of the party when the younger ones wanted to impeach AND try him for treason after winning congress.

Re:To the author... (1)

manowar821 (986185) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729981)

I can put this in a slightly un-eloquent manner... They're all in on it together. What exactly "IT" is, is still up for debate. RIP Captain America - May your death make you a martyr for nerds and/or anyone else with a spark of American spirit left

Re:To the author... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19730003)

> The Democrats now run Congress; why aren't they impeaching Bush?

Because:
1. he's only got a year and a half left in office
2. he's the dumb one - that would still leave cheney - the brains behind the idiot - as president
3. it wouldn't help get the country out of iraq
4. there aren't enough democrat senators to convict - so it would be a waste of time

Notice - that nowhere on the list is a concern that he doesn't deserve it, or isn't guilty of more than enough to warrant it. He surely is.

Re:To the author... (2, Informative)

Dhalka226 (559740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730055)

Going backward for a moment...

Ah, because most of them voted for Bush's War

Even if they had not, being an idiot is, perhaps unfortunately, not what impeachment is for. Neither is starting a war that should not have been started.

Now if there were some concrete proof that they knowingly discarded all conflicting evidence and fabricated their own in a deliberate attempt to force the country into a war they knew was unnecessary, there might be a case. Personally I would not doubt that is exactly what happened, but thus far the evidence of that is not the sort of thing you go to trial with. Particularly when the trial is, by its very nature, really an issue of politics.

The Democrats now run Congress; why aren't they impeaching Bush?

Because they do not have the votes to do so. They might be willing to fight the losing fight here if there was a strong popular opinion for it, but I do not believe there is even a majority of support. With things as polarized as they are, the Democrats are certainly not going to do something they have no support for and will undoubtedly fail at.

Besides which, as sad as it is, Bush's presidency continuing on might be the best thing that could happen for the Democrats politically. They know for sure it is going to end in a year and a half. In the meantime it seems like every day that he is president erodes a little more support for the Republican party. If nothing else that gets the Democrats better support than a partisan impeachment would. Even if they were successful, that just moves Cheney into the Oval. Not exactly a staggering win.

In short, I imagine the Democrats are happy to spend the remainder of the next year and a half feeding Bush as much rope as he would like. They know what he will do with it. The more Republican necks he slips in there before then, the happier the Dems are.

And in a semi-off-topic, for-the-record sort of way:

No, he committed perjury. Wasn't he disbarred for that?

Yes and no. He was disbarred in Arkansas for a period of five years; I'm not sure if this is technically a disbarment or a suspension. He apparently then resigned from the Supreme Court bar before they had hearings over whether or not to disbar him from there as well. (Source [wikipedia.org] )

Re:To the author... (1)

DavidTC (10147) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730641)

In short, I imagine the Democrats are happy to spend the remainder of the next year and a half feeding Bush as much rope as he would like. They know what he will do with it. The more Republican necks he slips in there before then, the happier the Dems are.

Which only works if he doesn't nonsensically invade Iran.

Re:To the author... (5, Insightful)

larkost (79011) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730453)

Actually... Bill Clinton did not commit perjury. Arguably he did lie during a press conference, and he certainly did intend to deceive during that press conference, but "perjury" is a word with a strict legal definition, and it does not hold in this case.

The details in the matter are that while under oath during a civil court case brought by Paula Jones then President Clinton was asked if he had had sex or an affair with Monica Lewinsky. He asked for clarification about what constituted sex and an affair, and sex was defined, BY THE PROSECUTOR, as penile-vaginal intercourse. He then answered that he had not had sex under this definition. I have never heard anyone say that Bill Clinton received more than a blow-job from Monica Lewinsky.

So please stop using the word "perjury". It is simply wrong to use in this case. You can say he lied (people may disagree on that point), and you can certainly say that he intended to mislead people (that cannot be disputed), but he did not perjure himself.

The subsequent disbarment was much more about the Whitewater investigations, and was highly politically charged. To the point that facts were mostly irrelevant in the case.

Re:To the author... (1)

sohare (1032056) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730519)

"Slick Willy got a blowjob and it was the end of the world" No, he committed perjury. Wasn't he disbarred for that?

You say perjury like the guy was lying about weapons of mass destruction. Please, he lied about being an adulterer. That's something cared about only by arrogant pricks who like to enforce their morals on others yet are just as culpable for the same dirty dealings.

Re:To the author... (1)

el_munkie (145510) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730635)


You say perjury like the guy was lying about weapons of mass destruction. Please, he lied about being an adulterer. That's something cared about only by arrogant pricks who like to enforce their morals on others yet are just as culpable for the same dirty dealings.


He committed perjury in a sexual harassment trial for a former subordinate. His behavior with his current set of subordinates was certainly pertinent to the case. Guess which party is responsible for sexual harassment laws?

Yes, it was a witchhunt, but the President, of all people, should be expected to tell the truth when under oath. This applies to Bush, Clinton, and every president, past or present.

Get Over Yourselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729709)

This was a fucking storyline to sell comic books and generate publicity with apparently great success. They reeled in suckers like you, who will use this opportunity to project your own political views on a fucking comic book. What will you say when they revive him in a few years when Bush is gone?

I would like to hear how Superman was also an indication of the eroding rights of the people or how Jason Todd was an indication of the downfall of innocence.

The fact that this was posted to slashdot "politics" shows how far this site has fallen.

Re:To the author... (2, Funny)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729823)

King George was reelected.
I think you're a bit confused about history. King George was a monarch, he wasn't elected. Silly.

Re:To the author... (1)

vigmeister (1112659) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730035)

King George was a monarch, he wasn't elected
You mean like Cartman becoming hall monitor?

  'Respect my authoritah!!!'

Cheers!

Re:To the author... (0, Troll)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729995)

Just because you choose to denigrate things you disagree with doesn't mean your opinions are valid. I chose to serve 9 years. My wife is still serving. I agree with most of what is being done and has been done with foreign policy. I read a big chunk of the intelligence that lead to these decisions as it was coming in and came to the same conclusions. I might add that most of Congress came to the same conclusions only some choose political expediency over honor and integrity. I listened to GB's UN speech before the UN and know for a fact that it is almost entirely correct, even today with hindsight.

I don't like the poor fiscal policy of Congress. I think too many things are pushed to the Federal level. I think the Federal government is too powerful. I believe in "these united states" over "The United States". I think that lawyers have taken over all three branches of government and it's a BAD thing.

Re:To the author... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19730059)

Slick Willy got a blowjob and it was the end of the world, King George starts a war, usurps our freedoms, potentially stole 2 elections...well...that doesn't make as good sensationalist dirty gossip story so noone cares.
 
no, "slick willy" perjured. it had nothing to do with the act but while we're at it his attempts to make the incident of perjury as less of a crime than it was shows the man's true character. and if it's not a big deal why did he risk so much over so little?
 
clinton also stole our freedoms. his attacks on the second amendment makes him a dangerous presence. not to say that bush shouldn't face some wrath but don't act like an attack on the second amendment isn't an attack on freedom. it's insulting and it shows that you're selective in who should be granted what freedom.
 
and regardless if you like to see it clinton did attack afganistan. oddly enough it was a couple years later we were being attacked by the same terrorists. why doesn't it strike people as odd around here? as for iraq? yeah, it's a mess. but 70% of americans supported it pre-invasion. we can't just drop it and call it a failure, we now have an obligation.
 
the elections? the first election was a debacle too but according to the logic that everyone uses to claim that bush stole the first election he clearly won the second one. why is it that you guys who howl over this shit can't come up with a standard and stick to it?
 
  American Spirit is all but dead. Noone cares or is too busy shoveling themselves out of debt in our insane buy now pay later, keeping up with the Jones' culture. Lets not forget our wonderful lawmakers passed that nice law to make sure those poor credit companies don't have their money stolen by dirty citizens declaring bankruptcy!
 
that's the spirit. just give up. that's what we need. we need for mindless idiots to just pull a party line lever and dig us deeper into the hole.
 
and bankruptcy? you get yourself into debt you should pay it. i've seen some of what passes as bankruptcy under the new laws and it is theft. people put themselves into that position. no one forced them. i'm sick and tired of hearing about how the card companies have taken advantage of people. if you're 18 and you can't make your own decisions then it's you who has the problem, not the credit card company.

Re:To the author... (2, Interesting)

sohare (1032056) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730589)

The Constitution itself was a coup d'eta. Go and read the Articles of Confederation and you'll see a document that gives a lot more power to the common man. Gotta love all that "greatest democracy on Earth" rhetoric.

Re:To the author... [SPOILERS] (4, Interesting)

bri2000 (931484) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729705)

I think that's the point. I don't read comics anything like as much as I used to, and hadn't read any "classic" universe Marvel for a few years, when I picked up the trade paperback of Civil War a couple of months ago. The whole thing seemed to be an allegory for current US politics with Captain America representing the liberal "we must not let the terrorists win by abrogating our freedoms" wing and with the killer android and concentration camp designing Reed Richards and Tony Stark representing the neocon "things have changed and the world is too dangerous for our old freedoms" wing. The point is the neocons do win. Captain America is shown to be out of touch and unrepresentative of (and in the final issue he is attacked by) the ordinary Americans he purports to represent, whereas Richards and Stark are hailed as true heroes. Sure, Sue gets a bit miffed with Reed about the whole killer android version of Thor thing, running off to join Caps rebels but she soons gets over her feminine mood swing and comes back - in an interesting parallel to recent Scooter Libby developments, Reed demands, and gets, a full pardon for Sue while his concentration camp is slowly filled with all the other post humans who refuse to co-operate with Reed and Stark.

And that's it. Reed and Stark turn into Henry Bendix types who kill and imprison people to help bring about their conception of a finer world with no comebacks (unless, as I fervently hope, at some point during World War Hulk, the Hulk removes Stark from his armour via the neck and then uses the emtpy shell as a latrine). The whole book seemed to be an endorsement of the idea of the competent, benign (unless you disagree with him - in which case its Prison 42 for you) dictator and, for me at least, left a bad taste. A shame as I've really liked Millar's work on The Ultimates.

Re:To the author... [SPOILERS] (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729869)

The way you describe it, I wouldn't think of it as an endorsement at all. More like dark humor.

Just because someone wins doesn't mean the author endorses them. Often, such cases are supposed to be warnings.

Re:To the author... (1)

E.J.Thribb (910683) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730149)

So. Farewell then, Captain America.

Your shield was also a frisbee.
That is why you were my favourite of the famous five.

Though come
to think of it I never liked that rubber guy,
and that rock man
gave me the creeps.

Re:To the author... (2, Informative)

videomadeflesh (1123389) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730607)

By killing off Captain America, aren't you letting the neocons win? I'd rather have seen an episode where Captain America punishes a perjuring White House aide...
Then you need to read Black Summer http://www.blacksummer.net/ [blacksummer.net] by Warren Ellis. A superhero snaps and kills the sitting American president. The varient cover is a ridiculously detailed picture of said hero in the oval office, with blood splattered on everything.

How about... (3, Funny)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729441)

How about burying real politicians instead of Capt. America.

Re:How about... (5, Funny)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729563)

"How about burying real politicians instead of Capt. America."

How about burying lawyers instead of Capt. America.

Fixed it for you.

A busload full of lawyers crashed outsided of town. When the emergency crews arrived on the scene, they found that the local townfolk had already buried all the lawyers. Surveying the wreckage, one EMT said "the crash doesn't look that bad. Didn't any of them survive?" "Well, some of them SAID they were still alive, but you know how them lawyer fellas like to lie."

ok? (0, Flamebait)

Gamer13258 (1121477) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729445)

1)Is this really news? 2)I know a lot of people really enjoy comics and all, and maybe it was a reflection of the USA or something (I don't know. I don't read these comics so maybe I shouldn't be talking), but it's still just a comic and just another twist in a storyline. The creative process will continue on and still produce some kind of literature that the comic's fan base will still love.

Re:ok? (4, Insightful)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729501)

News for NERDS! I think this fits the bill rather well, considering he is one of the oldest comic characters I can think of.

Re:ok? (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729781)

The image of him punching out Adolph Hitler in 1941 is still one of the iconic images in comic history. Personally, I prefer the more embarrassing stuff that Marvel later try to bury (like the issue [captain-america.us] where Cap took on those evil communist college professors, or the way he dodged the whole Vietnam issue, or that emo period where he was all "Oh, I'm such an anachronism, wah, wah!").

Re:ok? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730541)

News for NERDS! I think this fits the bill rather well, considering he is one of the oldest comic characters I can think of.

When I was a kid I remember seeing a comic book featuring Methuselah...

Re:ok? (4, Insightful)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729503)

1)Is this really news? 2)I know a lot of people really enjoy comics and all, and maybe it was a reflection of the USA or something (I don't know. I don't read these comics so maybe I shouldn't be talking), but it's still just a comic and just another twist in a storyline. The creative process will continue on and still produce some kind of literature that the comic's fan base will still love.
Comic books should be taken as serious a form of art expression as any book, painting or sculpture. The values displayed, the characters, their flaws and strengths...they are reflections of society and its desires and dreams. Even the most fantastical of the comic books contains truths of human nature that we face every day.

Re:ok? (1)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729691)

Comic books should be taken as serious a form of art expression as any book, painting or sculpture.

When was the last time you saw an article on /. about this fantastic new sculpture that is really a political commentary on international trade treaties?

I love comics too, that doesn't mean I need a pointless article about them on my "news" site.

Re:ok? (1)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730557)

Comic books should be taken as serious a form of art expression as any book, painting or sculpture

You mean like a romance novel or a painting of a Campbell's Soup can or a urinal on a pedestal?

Re:ok? (1)

mypalmike (454265) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729839)

but it's still just a comic

Dude, it's Captain America! Captain America's dead, dude!

Yeah, I don't get it either.

What do you expect? (1, Insightful)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729455)

With the story line so relevant to present-day politics, and the timing of the latest issue so precise, it's hard not to think the whole thing is one big slam on the government.

With an administration that is turning out to be as bad as the Nixon [wikipedia.org] and Harding [wikipedia.org] administrations combined, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Marvel will tell you that it's just coincidence, and it may very well be, but that doesn't mean it's not timely.

Re:What do you expect? (4, Interesting)

AxemRed (755470) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729509)

At least Harding knew that his cronies were doing wrong and had a problem with it. From Wikipedia:

"My God, this is a hell of a job!" Harding said. "I have no trouble with my enemies, but my damn friends, my God-damned friends... they're the ones that keep me walking the floor nights!"

Bush just gives them a pat on the back...

Re:What do you expect? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19730429)

Nixon is still remembered as a great statesman. Certainly he overstepped and deserved to be impeached, but the American people benifitted greatly from his tenure. His final book, written after the Wall came down, predicted what would happen if the US ignored the World. Slick Billy did and everything came true.

Bush, the worst President? Are you old enough to remember Carter?

"cemetary"? (5, Funny)

timster (32400) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729467)

So tell me, where did they bury Captain Spelling? The libary?

Re:"cemetary"? (1)

sinator (7980) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730427)

Yes, and in the Cemetary, Grave Robers tried to pilfer his grave, only to be attacked by Skleltons and Zmobies and Lihces. Then the Bonerdagon attacked them all!

Slam on government? (4, Insightful)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729491)

So the Red Skull assassinating Captain America is a slam on government? The arrest and surrounding Civil War hullabaloo is most likely a slam on government but Captain America's death is nothing more than a cash grab. They're just exchanging one live character with poor monthly sales and the occasional strong moment in ensemble titles for a martyr who can help bolster sales across the board. He'll be like Hal Jordan: more popular dead than he ever was alive. If this were really a slam on government, then the government would have a lot more to do with his actual death instead of it being a Red Skull masterminded event.

Re:Slam on government? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729633)

I totally agree with the parent...

Sincerely,
George Bush

Re:Slam on government? (1)

CryogenicKeen (1088911) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729757)

I agree that Captain America being dead does make him more popular in the present then "alive". But I also think that if they made the government the main one responsible for his death then it would just be like oh Marvel is being TOO anti-patriotic I will not buy this issue because it may conflict with my prior belief... I think that you are onto something it is both. If you add the Red Skull as the one responsible you get people like us debating, "oh is it really about the government!" "No its just the Red Skull!".. Either way if its a cash grab its a good one in the sense that if you like it or hate it, its bound to have people talking about it and comparing it to real life as well as someone perhaps ever buying the issue to see what all the hub-bub is about...

Re:Slam on government? (1)

techpawn (969834) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729813)

Sort of like the "death" of Superman? How many people bought that issue just to have his ass come back from the death three issues later in 5 different forms. It would not suprise me if what made Cap somehow is able to bring him back from the dead when a new president is elected and this current phobia of meta-humans is over in the Marvel universe

mwoa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729499)

The captian always goes down with his ship

And in the next issue... (5, Funny)

kgp_crap (997022) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729507)

It is later revealed that the plan was orchestrated by the Red Skull;

This just in from Marvel..In the next issue..Red Skull gets a Presidential pardon.

Marvel killing off all heroes (1)

Himring (646324) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729527)

Why is Marvel killing-off all of their heroes? Is it to make room for new comics, pursue movie-making using all the old material, what? I think continuing the comic stories is a loss for them. Comic sales, I've heard, have been steadily declining for years.

I will say this though, "The Hulk: The End," was by far one of the best comics I've ever read. Him being the very last hero -- even human -- alive is very fitting in the Marvel universe....

Re:Marvel killing off all heroes (1)

nahdude812 (88157) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729739)

Comic sales, I've heard, have been steadily declining for years.
To take a tip from our RIAA overlords, we can assume that this is in some way related to file sharing and peer to peer in general.

It's time we start selling comic books with a biometric lock which can only be read by one person, up to a maximum of 4 different fingers. The only explanation for these declining sales is clearly no fault of the industry.

Re:Marvel killing off all heroes (2, Interesting)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729767)

Hero deaths in futures that aren't part of the standard Marvel universe are very common. "Days of Future Past", "The Last Avengers Story"*, "Death's Head II Miniseries", "Earth X" etc are all books that show the death of a character or set of characters in a way that does not affect the continuity of the Marvel Comics universe. "Hulk: The End" fits into that category. Hulk dies but it's a story set in a future that likely will never happen in any of Marvel's other monthly titles (or even in the Incredible Hulk monthly titles). Captain America's death is part of the mainstream continuity and all characters and titles must deal with it. Captain America can't guest star in Iron Man anymore. He can't be in any non-flashback Avengers stories. He's dead to the Marvel Universe. That's a lot more significant a change than the Hulk's death in a possible future timeline.

* This is quite possibly the best alternate future title I've even read just because of blind Hawkeye.

It's a multiverse....Marvel killing off all heroes (1)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729777)

Remember, Marvel has _three_ separate story lines going these days:

  - Mainstream Marvel universe (Earth-616) (the old titles, w/ issue numbers ranging well past the hundreds
  - ``Ultimates'' (Earth-1610) which has only just started to reach past 100 w/ Spiderman
  - Marvel Adventures (Earth-20051) which is their line of stories suited for younger readers

Captain America is alive and well in the latter two, and as the numbers indicate they've got lots more, which get written about on a semi-regular basis

William
(who quit reading comics when _X-Factor_ #1 came out and they declared that Phoenix wasn't really Jean Grey --- it's really bad when a one-off cross-over book (The X-Men Teen Titans one) has a better handle on characterization than the mainstream one.)

"Death" in comics (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729833)

Dying in a comic is like dying on a soap opera. You're only truly "dead" if the audience doesn't want you back.

Re:Marvel killing off all heroes (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729871)

The death of the hero is a theme that has been explored and re-explored again and again in both the Marvel and DC universes. Captain America is just the latest in a list of superheroes that have been killed off at one time or another.

As far as sales go, these statistics [comichron.com] don't show a decline but a modest growth. Based on the general state of the industry, I'd also say that the growth is much more healthy than what went on in the 90s when speculators drove the market to huge heights (but then abandoned it shortly thereafter). So, no - the comic book industry is not in decline.

Re:Marvel killing off all heroes (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730395)

The Comic Book Guy [wikipedia.org] is wearing his too-small Captain America t-shirt in mourning. He is also marking up the price on all of his Captain America stock.

Death isn't the handicap it used to be... (4, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729551)

I'm amused by how the mainstream media has fallen for this marketting hype. We're geekier than that though. Death is one of the least permanent states for a comic character. Superman died in the 1990's. He seemed to get better and he wasn't the first. I very much doubt Jean Grey was either. Even Uncle Ben has been ressurected briefly via an alternative timeline.

Re:Death isn't the handicap it used to be... (1)

solevita (967690) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729673)

>Even Uncle Ben has been ressurected briefly via an alternative timeline.

The rice seller character was an eternal money spinner.

Re:Death isn't the handicap it used to be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729963)

Captain America: The Chosen #1 - in stores September 5th 2007 - Cap is back in some form... (from Marvel.com)

Who slain him? (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729569)

Please, tell me it was some agents from the CIA, and by presidential orders!! It would fit this government PERFECTLY.

Iraq (1)

8tim8 (623968) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729571)

>it's hard not to think the whole thing is one big slam on the government.

It's been quite a while since I've read comics, but do comics today even mention Iraq? And what exactly is a "big slam on the government"? A vague commentary on the fact that (gasp!) people sometimes die, and the gov't should do something about it? Or is the death of Captain America a specific critique of Bush's policies in Iraq? Could someone who's followed the storyline enlighten me? Thanks.

Re:Iraq (1)

dharbee (1076687) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729803)

The writers don't really mention Iraq, instead they've been using a stand in. The recent Civil War was an event based around the idea that people need to sacrifice security for safety. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Specifically, a group of heroes was involved in a serious incident in which a school full of children was destroyed. After this, a registration initiative was undertaken to prevent such a thing for reoccurring. Anyone with powers had to register, or retire and never use their powers again.

There are clear parallels to many real life situations throughout the storyline.

Re:Iraq (1)

Canthros (5769) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730025)

Civil War was a hamhanded attempt at political commentary in which a handful of powerful individuals decided to force a situation that would require infringing on the "rights" of many super-powered vigilantes. As the storyline wore on, we had Captain America on the side of those who wanted to preserve their right to dress up in funny pajamas and fight other people in funny pajamas anonymously, and Iron Man manufacturing a growing crisis on the other side of the argument in order to get his registration act through and wind up head of SHIELD. To make it go down easier, an equivalence was drawn to both sides to show that, hey, we're just as bad as them. Oh, and we got some of the goddamned stupidest commentary ever about Captain America being out of touch with the people because he didn't keep track of NASCAR.

It was stupid, and the allegory was clumsy and juvenile. Granted, comics, and superhero comics especially, are a medium aimed at a juvenile audience. Writing for an audience of juveniles doesn't have to be, though.

What makes the death of Captain America even dumber is that it's probably all going to be undone before the movie they're working on comes out in 2009, or whenever Jeph Loeb is done with the book, whichever comes first.

Re:Iraq (1)

nearlygod (641860) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730243)

Yes it does sound familiar. It sounds like Watchmen.

nearlygod

That's just because you're a moron (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19730425)

Not really. But you and your "everything old is better, there's nothing new under the sun" crowd are too crotchety to ever admit how stupid you are.

And Watchmen was rubbish.

Re:Iraq (2, Informative)

Jack Sombra (948340) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730595)

"It's been quite a while since I've read comics, but do comics today even mention Iraq? And what exactly is a "big slam on the government"? A vague commentary on the fact that (gasp!) people sometimes die, and the gov't should do something about it? Or is the death of Captain America a specific critique of Bush's policies in Iraq? Could someone who's followed the storyline enlighten me? Thanks"

Do comic's mention Iraq? yes regularly but always as a side note because if they bring it to much to the fore it would lead to the obvious question of "Why does Massively overpowered superhero X not just go over there and sort it all out?"

And it was not so much the death of CA that was the slam on the government and events over the last few years but rather more the events that led up it

School worth of children die, public outrage, press feeding frenzy, overreaction, hints of government/Big Corp involvement = 9/11

Using the previous event as a springboard, new laws rapidly passed with little thought or review that seriously affect individuals liberties (aka if you have powers you are automatically classified as criminal unless you register with the government all your details) while giving huge powers to the government and riches to those in the shadows behind the government= Whole patriot act

Hulk getting dumped into a rocket and sent on a one way trip to space by "his friends" (which is now going to have serious repercussions with World War: Hulk coming) = CIA "renditions"

People (with powers) getting locked up in a negative zone prison with no access to the legal system or trial = Guantanamo bay

The death of CA is more or less a comment saying with all the above "America, land of the free" has been killed

Oh, that's fair! (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729587)

Captain Marvel is dumped into some pauper's grave in Sioux Falls and this commie-bashing traitorous prick gets a spot in Arlington Cemetery?!?!?

And? (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729623)

With the story line so relevant to present-day politics, and the timing of the latest issue so precise, it's hard not to think the whole thing is one big slam on the government.

Isn't this one of the responsibilities artists have to the society that supports them?

Re:And? (1)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729901)

Isn't this one of the responsibilities artists have to the society that supports them?
The only "responsibility" that enters into it is the responsibility of these particular artists to make something that sells books for the company they work for.

In general though, as an artist I can tell you with extreme confidence that I'm not responsible for a damn thing apart from getting whatever's in my head out onto the paper/disc/website/sculpture/performance/whatever. There is no set of artist rules that demand my work be socially responsible. I can do that if I wish, but I can just as easily sculpt a cute baby kitten with adorable kitten eyes, do a standup act about airline food and breaking up with my girlfriend, or build the ultimate ASCII-art version of Goatse.

Do we care? (1)

Burb (620144) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729641)

Probably not. The Doctor's next companion is to be Kylie Minogue. Who needs Captain America?

She is not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729703)

She's in the Christmas special, not the next season/series. I wish they'd bring back Sally Sparrow, and maybe her boyfriend, as the next companion(s), but I'm afraid that won't happen.

Course, there's comic book heros (1, Offtopic)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729669)

Or the opportunity to buy a pint for someone who actually did something heroic.

http://johnsmeaton.com/ [johnsmeaton.com]

Yes, beer really does cost £3($6) a pint here, and no I have no idea who's running the site.

 

government is not America (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729737)

The Flag and America is nothing to do with government. Our government COULD be erased with a shrug of the peoples' shoulder or a flick of their wrist yet the flag and the meaning of America would still be the same. Those freaks in Washington are only considered America because WE allow it, period. Capatain America, instead of dying (?) needs to fly into the Capitol and start smackin some heads. Then he would need to fly around the world apologizing to the people we have destroyed along with helping people in Darfur and other phsycotic hell hole African countries. Captain America dying? That is just propaganda to ease American's into accepting failure and the ultimate despair or tyranny that follows. I'm no Marvel fan but posing somthing named America and having it die is outright crap and I do not find it funny. Again, America is not our filthy government, get it right! Hardly anyone realizes the amount of crime and drugs and prostitues/slaves comsumed by our so called government goons in these global trades; but slowly they are finding out one by one.

comics are for fags (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729865)

little dick smoking fags like comics, not real human beings.

Where's Thor When You Need Him? (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#19729923)

He's the only Avenger that could clean up this mess. Pagan Gods, if you can hear me, please help! I don't really care what pantheon you're from at this point, just so long as you don't let Wiccans run around ruining your good name.

Reality check! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19729953)

This is a comic book. A medium for CHILDREN. You can call it a "graphic novel" or whatever you want, but the sad reality is that almost everyone posting here is too old to be fascinated by such tripe. You people need to get the hell out of your parent's basements and get a life.

Probably a skrull. (1)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730087)

Like Electra. Once Hulk is done racking up a scorecard, I'me sure we will find out mst of the people who acted so out of character in Civil War were Skrull.

Anybody who thinks Steve Rodgers isn't going to return withing 14 months doesn't know comics.

Captain America: The Chosen #1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19730113)

- in stores September 5th 2007 - didn't take them long to bring Cap back (in some form)

now everybody step back and say "it is only a comic book"

How do you figure this is a slam on the government (4, Interesting)

Steeltalon (734391) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730129)

Captain America gave up. Iron-Man, Reed Richards, and their goons were clearly in the wrong and Captain America gave up. Iron-Man and Reed are the ones who were committing (at best) "morally gray" acts. Iron-Man and Reed are the ones who cloned Thor, resulting in Goliath's death. Iron-Man and Reed are the ones who were supporting, guess what? The government. Captain America gave up the fight against the forces of oppression in a nod to the government. His death is, if anything, a sign that his breed of super-hero has no place in the Fox news world that Marvel seems to favor now. This is a slam against us. Certainly not to the government or to Iron-Man.

So what if it is? (1)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730193)

it's hard not to think the whole thing is one big slam on the government.

Art and literature have always been used as commentary on all sorts of social issues. Why should comic books be exempt?

Generally, art and politics DON'T mix (0)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730259)

Generally speaking, art and politics don't mix, and, if it does, the result is usually propaganda. If, as some have posted, they had Wolverine ripping up Scooter Libby, that would really be propaganda. But unlike supposed "real" artists, Marvel seems to have struck a thought provoking balance.

This Marvel work has many interpretations. It could be about the war on terror, but it could also be about gun control, with superheros as an allegorical reference to guns.. registration, ya know.

Those of us who are already against all the Homeland Security crap and USA PATRIOT have something to root for, but also, those who are genuinely in favor have a format with which they can explore for themselves the consequences of what they believe in, and can, in their own minds, decide if they really do deserve liberty still, after trading it for security.

Commentary not really a great thing (4, Insightful)

twoallbeefpatties (615632) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730281)

On one online comic forum I troll through, the majority of the readers are generally pissed off about Civil War. On the one hand, creating an effective pro-registration side meant essentially turning some superheroes evil. SHIELD shot first at Captain America - not for not wanting to register, but for not wanting to hunt down his old friends. And Iron Man lost all credibility he had in this encounter, including hiring former supervillians to start a false war with Atlantis, just to prove his point.

Problem is, all of the "good guys" weren't much better. Rather than actually providing solid arguments as to what they were opposing the government for, most of the superheroes just ran around shouting how bad the government is and smoking weed and putting flowers in their hair. The few times that Captain America had a moment in front of a reporter to explain his case, he just listed a bunch of hippie talking points, rather than actually talking about how the law could hurt superheroes, or even mentioning that SHIELD shot at him first.

Civil War could have been a chance to have some real commentary on modern issues, but it quickly devolved into just a chance for people to fight each other. There was no real discussion, no real logic, and Cap's sudden death just capped the whole thing off as being an attempt for controversy rather than any sort of political message.

Re:Commentary not really a great thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19730663)

SHIELD shot first at Captain America.
I wonder if in a few years, they'll CGI the part and make Captain America shoot first.

Sad but pertinent (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730385)

Captain America's been torn apart
Now he's a court jester with a broken heart
He said Turn me around and take me back to the start
I must be losing my mind "are you blind?"
I've seen it all a million times

but but superman (1)

genner (694963) | more than 6 years ago | (#19730503)

We've been down this road with Superman already.
How long before they reserect the Cap?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...