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Explosives Camp

samzenpus posted more than 6 years ago | from the if-you-love-something-blow-it-up dept.

Education 419

theodp writes "How about a summer camp where you get in trouble for not blowing things up? Students with a passion for all things explosive and proof of US citizenship pay a $450 fee to attend Summer Explosives Camp, 'We try to give them an absolute smorgasbord of explosives,' quipped a professor at the University of Missouri-Rolla, which offers a minor in explosives engineering. Here's the brochure (PDF), kids!"

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419 comments

Kaboom (4, Funny)

bruce_the_loon (856617) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750951)

Need I say more, cousin Osama. You buy the plane ticket, I'll get the passports.

Re:Kaboom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19750971)

ah, whatever... you can have the plane too.

Re:Kaboom (1)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751169)

All I can say is that this truly looks like fun. Given the spare time and spare cash, I'd love to do something like that.

I haven't gotten to play with explosives under the watch of a trained professional since I was a wee lad before my great grandfather passed away (he was a demolitions man for the railroad). *grin*

Safety isn't first (5, Insightful)

vargasman (1077465) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751395)

Did anybody else catch that safety was number 2?

1. How to prime and shoot dynamite.
2. Safety precautions when handling explosives.
3. Where explosives are used.
4. The curriculum and department of Mining Engineering at UMR.
5. What careers are available that are explosive related.
6. How underground blasts work.
7. How explosives are used in industry.
8. How to set up and shoot off a fireworks display.

This first post was exploded (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19750955)

KABOOM.

Suicide Bombers anyone? (1)

WFFS (694717) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750963)

I predict this will not end well =p

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (0, Troll)

feitingen (889125) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751081)

This is the best and worst idea I've ever seen at the same time.
On the one hand, you have explosives, which are really fun to play with.
But on the other hand, it is illegal without a licence, and for a very good reason, and to give this knowlegde to unlicenced kids?
If kids weren't "bad" enough, you train them to run around and blow stuff up?
If those kids get a little "inspiration" from CNN, you've got a problem.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (5, Informative)

dballanc (100332) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751205)

So we should deprive kids of safety and proper handling knowledge just in case they decide to turn on us right? Unlicensed? How do you think you get licensed, magic? They get licensed by receiving the proper training and various checks... which is exactly what this is... atleast in introductory fashion.

If those 'kids' got a little 'inspiration' they could find far more dangerous information in a public library. I've got an old chemistry book from 1902, copies or similar books are no doubt common. That book reads like a Betty Crocker cookbook. I'd much rather interested kids receive real training and experience than try some of the stuff they could cook up on their own.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (0, Redundant)

feitingen (889125) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751279)

What I'm saying is that kids should not be licensed to work with explosives at such a young age.
Mostly because any safety training they'll get in the beginning of the course is unlikely to stick, what they'll remember after such a short course will be how to blow stuff, and I think kids should not learn that until they are old enough to remember and take safety precautions.
I know this is way too much thinkofthechildren, but as a kid, I nearly blew my hands of several times, and I dont want my kids to do what I did.
It was fun, yes, but completely unneccesary, and i did not learn much from it.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (5, Insightful)

modecx (130548) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751587)

First of all, they're not kids. They're at least young adults: junior and senior high school students who are interested in enrolling at the university. These are kids who are interested in going to a school that concentrates on engineering, which happens to be one of those schools that has a focus on, or at least a general slant towards, (golly gee) stuff related to mining. Secondly, they do not walk away with a license to work with explosives, nor any of the hundred or so papers and certificates which one must have to acquire or brew said materials. Thirdly, it's not like they plop a stick of dynamite, or a brick of c-4 into a ten year old's hands and say "have fun". Most of the high powered events are demonstrations, and the "kids" get to figure stuff like "how much ANFO do have to put into this hole to do the job", and see if they were right or wrong.

Finally, teaching these kids about the stuff that class presents has to be statistically about one-hundred-thousandth the danger level of not sufficiently teaching them about more mundane stuff, like driving, for instance.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (4, Insightful)

edittard (805475) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751889)

What I'm saying is that kids should not be licensed to work with explosives at such a young age.
If it's mentioned in the article that the attendees will qualify for any kind of license or permit, can you point out where? I didn't see it.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (1, Insightful)

PingPongBoy (303994) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751659)

FUD? Take good care!

While high energy devices and explosives are used in everyday life, and anyone wanting badly enough can build a bomb from gasoline or a number of common items, there is some danger in proliferating knowledge of destructive explosions to people not old enough to drive.

So what's to fear?
- Big storms, flooding, tropical diseases, drought, famine from global warming?
- Fake products? Toxins and harmful elements of legal products?
- Terrorists? Punks? Nutcases?
- Bird flu?
- Identity thieves? Criminals?
- Big Brother and loss of civil liberties?
- Techno screwups that might label you a very bad x, y, or z? A malfunctioning automobile/airplane?
- Technological or political upheaval?
- Overpopulation?

The list is getting longer, caused by the power that bad things have for accumulating and travelling close to you. But you, insulated and told of so many wonderful advancements, are most likely told little about making a real difference. The writing is on the wall, so to speak, when one opens a Slashdot page and sees the occasional heads-up.

Now, one might wonder would it make any sense to have an environmental studies summer camp. I doubt it. Kids are passionate about fun factor. Blowing up things are fun. Mature people think "environment" but have to do the pollution thing called a job, and have no time to do more than sort the recycling.

So the solution is build technology to address the problems. People need something like a network of gizmos that can detect hazards and sound a general alarm. Are locusts invading? Is someone carrying a dense metal object nearby? What's in the toothpaste? Did the cook pee in the soup? Has your computer smuggled out your private data? Are you developing a deadly disease? Has a deadly bacteria spread all over your salad?

Is it time for government intervention? There are so many people with similar problems that it would be cost effective to do something broad and sweeping rather than regional approaches. Or do we wait until events demonstrate that a reaction is unavoidable?

Would it be worthwhile to start on an open-source technology that detects hazards, let alone fix the problems? The world has grown complex enough that a person can't really defend himself without some technological assistance. Generations ago, life expectancy was low due to the large numbers of misunderstood or missed hazards. Now it's the same paradigm all over again. The solution used to be educate until the ability to cope is absorbed into common sense. This technique may soon be limited in effectiveness.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (1)

tindur (658483) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751723)

But on the other hand, it is illegal without a licence, and for a very good reason, and to give this knowlegde to unlicenced kids? If kids weren't "bad" enough, you train them to run around and blow stuff up?
Car bombs don't kill people. People do.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (-1, Flamebait)

Seumas (6865) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751129)

Say what you will, but without camps like this, where will the bible belt send their kids so the next generation will have its share of abortion clinic bombers and crazy tax-evading, government-hating, federal building demolishers?

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751399)

They won't get go to camp, the Islamic suicide bombers blow everyone up there. It seems they don't want the competition.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (3, Funny)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751451)

It seems they don't want the competition.

Well, it's bad for business. I'm amazed that the far-right fundie Christian crazies don't actually align with the far-right fundie Muslim crazies. After all, they want pretty near the same thing and the fundie Muslim crazies can do a better job of the abortion clinic bombings, and cheaper. Why not just outsource?

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751681)

That's funny, I've made this same argument in more of a joking hostile tone before.

It's like they're fighting to see WHO get's to oppress liberals and progressives.

Re:Suicide Bombers anyone? (2, Insightful)

donaldm (919619) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751797)

Suicide bombers are normally not trained in the manufacture of explosive devices and in many cases all that is required of them is devotion (fanaticism) to press a button or throw a switch to set the explosive off. I would even go as far to say that they don't really have any idea what the explosive will do to their body assuming you can find all the body parts.

It is usually a skilled technician or chemist who is the one who actually oraganises the manufacture of the explosive for the suicide bomber and it would be rare for them to actually use the product themselves. Of course they would most likely take the attitude that their part in the jihad is too important for them to actually kill themselves.

uhm, what? (1, Offtopic)

the unbeliever (201915) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750965)

"Application deadline is April 1, 2007"

So why is this even being submitted now? It's not like it has any relevance for the rest of the year.

Re:uhm, what? (2, Insightful)

GizmoToy (450886) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750991)

Yea, and not only was the deadline April Fool's Day, but even if this somehow managed to not be a joke the course dates were June 3 - 9 and June 17 - 23. There'd be Explosives Camp alumni by now!

Re:uhm, what? (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751845)

Well it may be April Fool in the US but in Australia this type of course is available as a one semester subject (the costs seems to be similar to the US course). Doing a course like this can lead to a job in the mining or demolition industry, however jobs like this are quite dangerous and the locations can be quite remote, that is why these people are well paid.

what a blast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19750967)

Sounds like a blast.

GNAA

Bad idea (-1, Troll)

MarsDefenseMinister (738128) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750973)

Suppose somebody named Imad, who is an American citizen, attends the camp and then blows himself up in a bar two months later. Is this really a good idea?

We should not take chances with this. Lives are at stake.

Re:Bad idea (3, Insightful)

servognome (738846) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751027)

Suppose somebody named McVeigh, or Cho attends.
Anybody could be a terrorist.

Re:Bad idea (5, Insightful)

Professr3 (670356) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751099)

I can build a bomb without going to a silly camp. With enough determination, I could destroy anything I chose. When will people stop thinking "oh, if we just shut down all the 'dangerous' activities, we'll all be safe from terrorists"? It was communists, now it's terrorists - there's always a boogeyman.

Re:Bad idea (3, Interesting)

servognome (738846) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751131)

When will people stop thinking "oh, if we just shut down all the 'dangerous' activities, we'll all be safe from terrorists"? It was communists, now it's terrorists - there's always a boogeyman.
I totally agree. Sorry, my point was to refute the racism in the post that I replied to.
In fact the people who go to the camp would have a greater appreciation of the dangers of explosives and be safer than those idiots on YouTube with the anarchists cookbook.

Re:Bad idea (2, Interesting)

Eivind (15695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751705)

Agreed. It's completely silly.

Yes, knowledge is dangerous. But ignorance is *MUCH* more dangerous.

Humans in the world today overwhelmingly suffer and die as a result of *lack* of knowledge. (or to some degree, lack of *application* of knowledge)

I live a *much* safer life because I live in a country where there are experts on explosives, poisons, dangerous creatures, radioactive substances, cancerous agents and firearms.

Any idiot can figure out how to make a fertilizer-bomb. If anything amazes me with the London-incident it is the amateurishness of it all. Pathethic, frankly. Not even a -single- fatality ? *8* people plan a "terrorist"-attack, and they, combined, don't even manage to kill a *single* human being ? Pathethic is to weak a word for performances such as these.

Re:Bad idea (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751095)

Why would a terrorist in possession of explosives need to be educated in how to use them to blast off the side of an open pit mine? You don't exactly need any special training to set off explosives in a suicide bomb attack (making explosives on the other hand would need special expertise).

It is extremely sad that science and chemistry are being destroyed in the name of "fighting terrorism". Explosives, chemistry and other "dangerous terrorist activities" are used extensively in many industries. Most people are completely oblivious to this fact, and don't have a clue about how 'heavy industries' work. Therefore they continually do stupid things like call for a ban of chemistry in school or a ban of explosive substances needed for mining and other industries. School chemistry is already so useless and watered down (mostly because of the threat of litigation if something goes wrong) that I fail to see how there will be enough chemists in the future within mining and manufacturing industries.

Re:Bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751435)

Mining? Chemicals? I thought we were going to buy that kind of stuff from the Chinese, so we can concentrate on services with higher value added?

Training Domestic Terrorists: Dumb (1, Informative)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751469)

> You don't exactly need any special training to set off explosives in a suicide bomb attack (making explosives on the other hand would need special expertise).

Yes you do. Bruce Schneier ("Secrets and Lies") says the reason the Glasgow Attacks were a failure was because the terrorists didn't know how to use them: "putting a propane tank into a car and driving into a building at high speed is the sort of thing that only works in old episodes of The A Team. On television, you get a massive, extensive explosion. In real life, you only get a small localized fire." http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/07/terr orist_speci_1.html [schneier.com]

Yeah. "Explosives Camp" seems cool and funny, until someone uses what they learn to blow something up, then there will be an outcry, "Why didn't anyone see this coming?" and finally Congress will pass some bill with a stupid name "The Proud to be an American Bill" to soothe the jittery public. The fact that I have to justify why this is dumb, and that people say it isn't, amazes me. I mean, how stupid can the human race get?

It's not like Domestic Terrorism isn't without Precedent, and at that, on a large scale. $450 and proof of American Citizenship. McVeigh was an American Citizen. Dumb.

Re:Training Domestic Terrorists: Dumb (1)

beyondkaoru (1008447) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751687)

hi, as another reader of the schneier blog (squids are awesome), i'd like to point out that his focus is more that people are stupid. if there's someone intelligent and determined to blow something up, they aren't gonna need the camp, and if someone goes to the camp, they learn how to handle dynamite... not how to make improvised explosive devices (ied's, for people who like tla's). as numerous others have pointed out, learning about the use of dynamite is probably more constructive than destructive.

the issue with the people driving a propane tank into an airport was more like stupidity about choice of explosive, not delivery. their delivery was fine. they knew 'how to use it', the didn't know 'what to use'. if only they had instead used something potent. suicide bombing is easy, getting your hands on explosives is less so, but anyone with the mix of intelligence and determination can do it. luckily terrorists, domestic and abroad, as well as criminals in general, have no shortage of stupidity.

i don't want to come across as harsh, since we can't express tone in text, but you need to read more schneier. i think you might have the sort of theatrical risk perception he preaches against.

[...]no need to panic. Life goes on.

Re:Bad idea (5, Insightful)

value_added (719364) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751103)

We should not take chances with this. Lives are at stake.

It's this kind of reflex thinking that would encourage someone to get enrolled and attend classes wearing a turban muttering occasional Allahu Akbar under his breath. Just for laughs.

Lighten up. The country is filled with people who drive cars, own and carry guns, have arguments with their ex-wives, hold a grudge against the IRS, hate the President, or work at the post office. I'd be more worried about the sheer numbers of people in any of those groups before I'd worry about someone who wants to pursue what could be described as a slightly juvenile interest or hobby.

Re:Bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751467)

Encourage them? More encouragement comes from the madrassas that teach radical Islamic fundamentalism with an anti-West ideology. These are the breeding grounds for terrorists.

Re:Bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751669)


The country is filled with people who drive cars, own and carry guns,

Heh. And what frightens the shit out of me more, is that ALL of them can vote :-)

Re:Bad idea (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751167)

Yes and let's ban the intartubes while we're at it. Last I checked, you could find plans for just about any type of explosive you want. After all, lives are at stake.
 

Forget students.... (3, Funny)

Bo'Bob'O (95398) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750977)

Can I go?

Re:Forget students.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751633)

A lot of people are willing to play with explosives and stuff. My friend and I had the most brilliant idea to suck money of rich guys: instead of shooting clay pigeons, launch a friggin' cow with a catapult and try to shoot it woth a rocketlauncher. Hell, I would want to pay for that kind of shit!

Why US citizenship? (4, Insightful)

ghoul (157158) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750985)

Why is US citizenship required? Its especially funny as the professor conducting the camp is a Briton and not a US citizen. And its not like mines us explosives only in the US. People come to the US from all over the world for the best education available. Why would you think a foreigner who wants to be a mining engineer is not a valid candidate?

Re:Why US citizenship? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751039)

Guilt, limited liability.
The simple answer I image is Public Relations. I imagine the federal government would look down on it too. Also programs like that are subsidized by the state, and other organizations. It might not be a good use of the Missouri tax payer dollars to invite people from all over the world.

Re:Why US citizenship? (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751125)

might not be a good use of the Missouri tax payer dollars to invite people from all over the world
So do what English universities do - charge them the full cost of tuition. (In fact, I imagine all unis do that, but my only direct experience is of English ones)

The US-only thing is simple - it's so no-one can claim they're training foreign terrorists, simple as that.

Re:Why US citizenship? (1)

colmore (56499) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751171)

Many US universities have special scholarship programs for students from abroad.

The fact that non-citizens can gain access to our university system is one of the big things that keeps our immigration rates of highly skilled professionals sky high. For decades the US knowledge work economy has been too large to run on local brains alone.

Re:Why US citizenship? (2, Insightful)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751239)

You're erroneously assuming that Universities in the US get a significant source of their income from the federal government.

If you attend a state school, without actually having lived in that state, you pay an arm and a leg to go there, just like the international students do. If you grew up in a state without a good public university system, you're pretty much screwed. Students in Virginia get a much better deal than those in Wyoming.

Many colleges in the US are also privately owned and operated, which means that everybody pays the same high rate.

Next year, I'll be studying in the UK instead of at my state school in the US. Even with the dollar tanking, it's still cheaper to pay the "full" UK tuition than my (relatively inexpensive) out-of-state tuition here.

Re:Why US citizenship? (1)

man_ls (248470) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751299)

Many state universities will exempt you from paying out of state tuition if there doesn't exist a degree from a state university in your home state. Georgia Tech did this with nuclear engineering, for instance.

Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751079)

If other people attended, they might get a free trip to Cuba courtesy of the government?
Might still get one if they were US citizens, but also Muslim.

Me? I'm just glad I had a nice chemistry teacher who let us have a little fun in a controlled environment. People are so paranoid these days, though, that I doubt there will be many such teachers in the future, even though I've never harmed a soul with what I learned, and I don't intend to.

Re:Why US citizenship? (5, Funny)

jd (1658) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751091)

Stop. Think. A Briton is in America, wanting American citizens - and only American citizens - to play with extremely dangerous explosives. There can be only one explanation. Revenge for The A-Team and Knight Rider.

Re:Why US citizenship? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751175)

"Why is US citizenship required?"

In a post 9-11 world, is it really surprising things like that are done to cover their butts?

Re:Why US citizenship? (1, Interesting)

bdjacobson (1094909) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751177)

Why is US citizenship required? Its especially funny as the professor conducting the camp is a Briton and not a US citizen. And its not like mines us explosives only in the US. People come to the US from all over the world for the best education available. Why would you think a foreigner who wants to be a mining engineer is not a valid candidate?
Because certain ethnic groups of varying nationalities have a very real desire to take their understanding of explosives back home and use on their lifetime sworn enemies (that would be Shiites vs. Sunnis). I see no problem simply requiring US Citizenship, and I'm usually one very taken to conspiracy theories.

What's good for the goose... (5, Insightful)

Quietti (257725) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751401)

Right, so it's OK for USA to teach its kids about explosives? Imagine the outcry if someone heard about a similar program taking place, say, in Iran. I can already see the headline we would be getting: "Iran training dozens of kids into becoming terrorists with an expertise in explosives."

This is the same sort of fuzzy logic we see with USA possessing nuclear weapons and yet demanding that Iran be prevented from ever having any.

Re:What's good for the goose... (1, Flamebait)

bdjacobson (1094909) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751471)

Right, so it's OK for USA to teach its kids about explosives? Imagine the outcry if someone heard about a similar program taking place, say, in Iran. I can already see the headline we would be getting: "Iran training dozens of kids into becoming terrorists with an expertise in explosives."



This is the same sort of fuzzy logic we see with USA possessing nuclear weapons and yet demanding that Iran be prevented from ever having any.

You're the only one useing the fuzzy logic here. The US doesn't have religious radicals that go blow themselves up because someone made fun of Jesus. Iran does that would blow themselves up if someone poked fun at Muhammad. That's the whole reason why South Park pulled an ep until they could replace the blasphemic Islamic material with a statue of Mary and make fun of her.

Your notion that somehow it's same for us to do this as if Iran were doing it is the typical /. baseless USA bashing. Please come up with something original. By your low user ID I thought you would have known better. Or perhaps you do and were simply in search of free mod points. Regardless, point is it's the same reason it's ok for us to have nukes and not allow Iran/NK/China to have them. They would use them. We haven't since WW2, and probably won't considering all the fighting we do now is against rogue undercover militias.

Re:What's good for the goose... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751567)

The US doesn't have religious radicals that go blow themselves up because someone made fun of Jesus.

Oh really... [religioustolerance.org] In particular, note the column "Bombing, Arson, Attempted Bombing or Arson".

Re:Why US citizenship? (1)

Hallowed (229057) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751327)

I work in the mining industry, and thanks the post 9/11 homeland security laws, you must pass a background check and be a US Citizen or hold a valid green card in order to handle explosives.

Because mining explosives are different? (2, Informative)

Flying pig (925874) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751437)

Mining explosives is a very specialised subject. The object is to produce shock waves with no blast and no fire (think about it.) You want to break up rock or minerals with the absolute minimum of side effects, using the absolute minimum amount of energy necessary and raising as little dust as possible, not only because of health and safety risks but because any other approach adds cost. If you want to be a mining engineer, you learn explosives at mining school not summer camp. And you learn it, mostly, from mining engineers who are still alive, which gives you some confidence in the training. No, I am not a mining engineer, but I have talked to enough of them, in South Africa and elsewhere, and most of us would not want to earn our living that way.

Re:Because mining explosives are different? (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751745)

since when do engineers do blasts? they merely give the blast crew a map and ask them to put the shots down.

unlikely everyone else here it appears, i actually work at a mine site.

you are correct though, the object of a blast in mining it to break up rock. And yes i think most of the /. crowd would last 1 shift on a blast crew, not because of any danger but because it's actually fucking hard work.

Re:Why US citizenship? (1)

djpompey (1124069) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751887)

The short answer is "It's the law." Here's the long answer:

UMR offers an Explosives Engineering emphasis within the Mining Engineering degree program. Certain key courses require either U.S. citizenship or permanent resident alien status, in compliance with the Safe Explosives Act (one part of the Homeland Security Act of 2002). http://www.atf.gov/explarson/safexpact/ [atf.gov]

If you want to be a mining engineer but can't get permanent resident alien status, you are not excluded from the entire university or even from the Mining Engineering department. You simply cannot get that particular minor. Since UMR is the only institution in the country offering that minor, it could hardly be considered essential to ones career.

ghoul: True, the article says that Dr. Worsey is British (and stocky), but what leads you to think he isn't a U.S. citizen? If not, he would likely be a permanent resident alien, since he clearly has long term employment in the U.S.

School Mines (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19750993)

I think all schools should have a mine.

Preferably a salt mine - they can use it for detention.

Re:School Mines (2, Funny)

weighn (578357) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751045)

I think all schools should have a mine
but if each school had a mine of its own, what use would the curriculum be?
and how could we compare student grades across different schools?
oh, nevermine...

Re:School Mines (0, Offtopic)

jadin (65295) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751093)

We cannot allow a school mineshaft gap!

Re:School Mines (4, Funny)

DorkusMasterus (931246) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751117)

Come on now... this is a serious matter. And that is why I am introducing the "No Child Left in a Mine" bill to congress this summer...

Re:School Mines (1)

weighn (578357) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751269)

that is why I am introducing the "No Child Left in a Mine" bill to congress this summer...
no, don't do that - the cost of wages will skyrocket!

Re:School Mines (1)

HeadlessNotAHorseman (823040) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751379)

Come on now... this is a serious matter. And that is why I am introducing the "No Child Left in a Mine" bill to congress this summer...

I'm going to oppose that bill with all my power...after all, a mine is a terrible thing to waste!

Wtf? (4, Insightful)

doyoulikeworms (1094003) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750995)

If you were going to blow shit up, Osama style, you would certainly NOT need to go to a childs' educational camp to do it. More power to people making science more interesting for kids.

Re:Wtf? (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751053)

Really?

I have a different take on this one. Even if it started with good intentions, it will very soon end in: "More power to people making sure the Homeland Security no-fly database is populated from as early age as possible".

Re:Wtf? (2, Insightful)

bateleur (814657) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751073)

You say that, but the most recent terrorists in London were incompetent [theregister.co.uk] and could have learned a lot from such a camp.

(Not that I'm advocating banning such camps, just pointing out not all terrorists have access to proper training.)

Iranian terrorists (1, Insightful)

ghoul (157158) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750997)

Now we where the people making all the trains and planes in Iran going boom got their training. No wonder theres a shortage of mining engineers. The CIA pays much better wages than any mining company.

Re:Iranian terrorists (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751491)

Heh, don't complain. This training has several advantage, DHS-wise :

It is legal and happens publicly, I think the DHS can easily get the list of everyone registered

It is easy for CIA agents to register and see what really happens there

It is about explosives used in mines. That is, huge quantities of industrial explosives. I think that such a training is completly useless for a terrorist : they won't say how to plant a bomb in urban area, how to maximize the number of death, how to get into a plane with this or how to make explosives from innocent products.

IMNA explosive expert, but I suspect the detonators they will use are not handmade and really easy to defuse, for safety. That would be the exact opposite of a bomb detonator.

I kinda doubt it (5, Interesting)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751607)

I kinda doubt that the CIA can't find better training than this. Mind you, I'm not from the US, but I thought each army has their own engineers branch which offers more in-depth knowledge about demolitions and military use of explosives than a summer camp. Including how to safely get rid of the explosives if, say, the convoy you were expected didn't pass that way. I'd think CIA would have no problems getting a trainer from the army or navy and organizing their own training.

If nothing else, reading TFA, it doesn't seem like it would make that useful training for 007-like or terrorist use of explosives. Stuff like how to safely blow up a side of quarry, or better yet, how to make a spud gun, are useful for mining or respectively entertainment, but don't translate well into how to do that much else with explosives.

Or, rather, not much that you couldn't already google. I mean, you can look up ANFO [wikipedia.org] on Wikipedia, and that's the main explosive used by the mining industry. If you can buy the ammonium nitrate and wanted to make a car bomb with that, you don't really need courses in how to drill the holes and calculate the dosage to blast a rock face in a quarry.

Also, about CIA use, again, I may be wrong about America, but it seems to me that:

1. People aren't that interchangeable between mining jobs and covert ops type jobs. Just knowing how to drill a hole and prime a stick of dynamite doesn't also make you want to go abroad and blow up some Arabs. Between making a decent risk-free living at home and going and risking your life abroad for better pay, most people would choose the first.

2. And it doesn't mean you even could, probably. About 95% of the people have this interlock in the brains against being _too_ mean to other people. About 3% are sociopaths, and don't. And there are a few more in between. So, really, statistically chances are higher that you'd be in the "nice guy" category, not in the "sociopath" cathegory.

The army has had millenia of figuring out how to (A) drill people into executing some stuff mechanically against cardboard targets or with blanks, until it becomes reflex by the time they have to do it against live targets. (B) Instill an "us vs them" theme and some groupthink notions of duty, honour, patriotism, etc, to help get people pull the trigger even if they don't really want to. (C) Getting people in a situation in which, one way or the other, it's your ass if you don't cap that other guy. Now that really helps get people to pull the trigger. (D) Creating a whole organization and hierarchy for dissipating responsibility, so noone from the guy who mines pitchblende to the general who orders the strike to the pilot who drops the atom bomb on Hiroshima feels particularly responsible for it all.

And it still gets a lot of people waking up in cold sweat for the rest of their lives, a.k.a., Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder [wikipedia.org] .

Heck, even some of the war atrocities are, ironically, traceable to the fact that man wasn't designed to kill man. People either get to (A) break down not understanding why the other guys shoot at him, what's wrong with them? Are they savage animals? and/or (B) get caught in that grouphink trap, thinking everyone else around is brave and fearless and all patriotic, and do dumb things to hide the fact that personally they're scared shitless.

Anyway, a lot of those only work in a group, and only work in a situation where it's short term "it's either them or me" and no easy way out. It doesn't quite apply to a lone killers.

Briefly, it might be a lot easier easier to first select with someone without scruples and give them explosives training, than to convert a peaceful mining engineer into a commando trooper.

3. The last person you'd want in the army or some secret service is some "Explosions are cool, Beavis!" type who makes spud guns or blows stuff up when they're bored, and wears a "I [heart] explosives" t-shirt. You'd probably want someone a lot more mentally stable than that.

camp memories (3, Funny)

weighn (578357) | more than 6 years ago | (#19750999)

can't wait to see the end-of-camp group shots - powder smudged faces, bandages, tattered clothing hanging from severed limbs...ah, the memories!

Only applicants with a lisp need apply... (5, Funny)

DorkusMasterus (931246) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751009)

Obviouthly it's a technical thchool and not anything near the ivy leagueths... The brothure acthually stateth that the deadline for applicanth is April 1th.

Yes. The 1th.

Not the 1st. Becauth they're not that type of inthituthun. Dammit, Jim, they're miners, not phythithiths!

Re:Only applicants with a lisp need apply... (1)

jimmux (1096839) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751111)

At first I thought you were implying that the article was about another kind of "camp".
Excuse my ignorance, but I found that more amusing for some reason.

Re:Only applicants with a lisp need apply... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751121)

If the deadline is April 1st, wouldn't that make this whole thing an April Fools?
Just a thought..

Re:Only applicants with a lisp need apply... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751391)

Being an Alumni of UMR (or Missouri School of Technology as the name is changing this year) I can assure you that the camp is for real and not an April fools joke. Additionally, questioning the intellegence of the school, when I was there, it had the second highest entrance exam scores of any US institution, second only to MIT.

Oh well.. (2, Interesting)

bm_luethke (253362) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751021)

I bet if they really wanted to make some money drop the following requirements:

"This camp is limited to 20 Junior and Senior high school students who are interested in enrolling at UMR and are at least 16 by the first day of camp."

I am sure there are quite a few people out there with lots of "disposable income" that would pay lots to do this. I know I had to take a look - maybe something worth a week or two of vacation time, especially seeing the 450 dollar price tag (not sure what my upper limit would be, depends on what stuff I get to play with). Alas, being 30+ pretty much puts me out of that class. There are "body guard" classes that take advantage of the same thing - it's neat to drive a car in that manner even if you live in an area that allows controlled live firearm courses.

Really, I know what I can and can not do and is why I do not play with real explosives, I like really big "booms" yet legally can not purchase them nor do I really know how to safely set them off. One would think there is *someplace* I can pay someone to let me make them, or at least blow some stuff up. I suppose there is too much liability, but I would have thought that with this type of thing even more so than allowing an older group to do so. I have no real excuse if I do something incredibly stupid, yet a 17 year old can get away with many things I can not - the 30+ year olds shouldn't have shown the 17 year olds how sparklers can explode if done wrong.

To note, I'm happy they have such and am not against it - almost anything the expands our abilities I am for. The previous is just a wish list for "older" people. In fact, I guess the older the more likely they would want too and be able to afford too set off some *big* explosives :)

Re:Oh well.. (1)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751217)

Really, I know what I can and can not do and is why I do not play with real explosives, I like really big "booms" yet legally can not purchase them nor do I really know how to safely set them off.

That was one of the fun things that I remember as a kid. My great grandfather was a trained demolitions man for the railroad. I got great enjoyment blowing things up with the cantankerous old man =]

Yes, I got to learn about explosives from my great grandfather, bladed weapons from my martial arts teachers, and various other things from assorted members of my family. Childhood was interesting *grin*

Free! (1)

Guzzitza (1000386) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751097)

Why pay $450? All we used to do was throw our camp supplied industrial size cans of tuna, baked beans, and spaghetti onto the camp fire.... and run! Just beware the flying lid shrapnel.. oh yeah.. and hot tuna... not great on the nose either.

Queue the Panic (1)

RavensDark (321683) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751155)

Begin anti-terror rants.
Surely this will provide GW with proof that terrorist training camps are being set up within the united states. Maybe he will invade.

Makes about as much sense as panicking about who can go do a course that looks like a lot of fun.

Re:Queue the Panic (1, Funny)

weighn (578357) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751287)

Surely this will provide GW with proof that terrorist training camps are being set up within the united states
no problem, just rename them to "Mythbusters Camps"

Lets create the Urban Scouts!!! (3, Interesting)

TodMinuit (1026042) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751165)

Screw the Boy Scouts! No one needs to know how to tie a frickin' knot, nor do we need to know how to build a stupid soap box car.

Lets create the Urban Scouts, where children will learn how to pick locks, phone phreak, hack computers, and social engineer.

Learning how to blow shit up ... (1)

residents_parking (1026556) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751201)

while all the other kids are into Nintendo. But where are the helicopters?!

Re:Learning how to blow shit up ... (1)

mrjb (547783) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751803)

Worse than that, these newfangled games nowadays teach kids violence. Too many explosions and such.

Looks good. (-1, Flamebait)

insomniac8400 (590226) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751203)

Its for high school students looking for a career in explosive. Anyone opposing this is a terrorist. Otherwise, lets restrict all Americans from learning or using explosives because a fag with a turbin blows shit up. How dumb are some of you people.

'Cause Terrorists Are All Named Mohamed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751307)

or some other Arabic name. Just ask the people of Oklahoma City.

US Citizen? (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751455)

Are US citizens more capable of handling explosives? Or do they have a lower tendency to cause harm with intent by way of explosives?

Hello Mudda, Hello Fadder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751493)

Here I am at, Camp Grenade-a.

Camp is very entertaining,
And they say we'll have some fun when we start detonating...

Requesting name change to... (1)

GFree (853379) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751519)

... Mythbusters Camp.

Heck, they blow up enough stuff there, why not.

You could even have the MB crew there - all the blokes would be chanting "Kari! Kari! Kari!", and Jamie & Adam would just be standing there wondering why they bothered turning up at all.

Where does it require Citizenship? (1)

kimmop (121096) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751527)

Where does it say that the camp is restricted to US Citizens? I can't find it anywhere (e.g. from "How do I get selected?") Considering how rare it is for Americans to have passports and how common it is to be non-citizen in US, I'd be quite surprised for the Citizenship requirement.

Congratulations! (1)

Tsuki_no_Hikari (1004963) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751555)

You've been selected to attend the premier explosives training event in the US! You'll learn just how explosives work, what makes the best bang, what makes the best flash, and so much more!*

*Note: Attendees may(read:will) be entered into the US DoD terrorist watch list. Side effects may include random wiretaps, strange helicopters nearby, and inability to board airlines. Have fun!

Wait a minute... (1)

madbawa (929673) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751569)

Why should I pay $540 for the course when I can learn the same skills from certain not-so-friendly groups and actually also get paid for it! Saudi Ozzie, here I come.

Re:Wait a minute... (1)

Cheesey (70139) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751859)

Why should I pay $540 for the course when I can learn the same skills from certain not-so-friendly groups and actually also get paid for it! Saudi Ozzie, here I come.

Terrorist training isn't what it once was [somethingawful.com] . Modern terrorists have difficulty even making bombs that can actually explode [theregister.co.uk] .

Also I heard that terrorist summer camps are actually a front for some sort of fundamentalist church. So not only do you not learn how to be an effective bomber, you also get brainwashed with a load of crazy nonsense about Jeebus and vegetarian T-Rexes. All considered, I'd rather pay up and learn about explosives from some proper experts.

Re:Wait a minute... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751875)

Amen to that brother.

We never get fun stuff here (1)

_Shad0w_ (127912) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751581)

I wish we had things like that in the UK. I also wish I wasn't nearly 30 and thus could go to them if we did have them.

All of this reminds me that I need to renew my explosives certificate.

Not so fun (5, Insightful)

Uruz 7 (986742) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751623)

Blowing things up really isn't all that fun. I was a demo guy in the Army and for the most part it was a pain in the ass. I do like the feeling when the wave of energy passes through your body but we always hunkered down and never actually witnessed an explosion because of the danger factor. And in Iraq it was a lot of hard work to pile up shell after shell of UXOs or captured IED components in 130 degree heat.

You can have the demo camp. I want a $450 camp where you just lay on a beach and get drunk with beautiful women. Where's that brochure?

It's perfectly safe (1)

giafly (926567) | more than 6 years ago | (#19751725)

How do I get selected?
Send the following:
  1. One page resume
  2. 250 word essay on "Why I am interested in a career focusing on the application of explosives"
  3. A letter of recommendation from a high school teacher or counselor
They'll use the answer to question 2 to weed out terrorists, by banning anyone interested in planting explosives but not landing a salary.

Everyone's a critic! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19751769)

You all just like being contrary.

I wish this camp was available when I was a kid! I wouldn't have done some of the stupid shit I did! Making shaped charges at 16 and I managed to keep my fingers to tell about it!

A discussion about United Nuclear comes up and you all bitch about how american kids are being sheepled out of a healthy sense of curiosity and science education. This comes up, and "OMG! THEY ARE TRAINING TERRORISTS!"

You're all fucking pathetic.
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