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Xbox Warranty To Cost $1 Billion, Customer Good Will

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the pricey-proposition dept.

XBox (Games) 158

An anonymous reader writes "The Financial Times reports that Microsoft will take a charge against profits of more than $1bn as it tries to limit the potential damage to its videogames business from a design flaw in the Xbox 360 games console leading to units failing." It's bigger even than that, though. Early this week the news was about Xbox Live's growth, but since yesterday the headlines have taken a turn. Peter Moore has admitted the company is shy of their goal, some 400,000 units short of the 12 million Xboxes they'd planned to ship. These facts combined have made for some grim questions, including the San Jose Merc's Nooch asking why you'd want to buy an Xbox in the first place.

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Well... (1)

BlueLightSpecial (898144) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766421)

If they would've just done a quality job in the first place, they wouldn't have to be spending the money now. They're probably regretting getting the console out fast now

Re:Well... (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766603)

Yeah, but you don't understand: they couldn't afford to save money.

Re:Well... (1)

tgd (2822) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766695)

For what its worth Microsoft is not the only company to get bit by the switchover to no-lead solder that Europe forced on manufacturers.

I'm glad they're going to refund my $140, though. I hope the one I recently got lasts longer than the last three.

nope (1)

Programmer_In_Traini (566499) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767681)

i really dont think they're regretting it. They still beat sony to the punch and stole most of the (high def) videogame market. made quite some nice $$$ in the process.

They knew full well of the heating problem and all that prior to releasing. but its like the motto : better ask forgiveness than permission.

Whats important is catching the user base and that they did. The $1b expense is not gonna hit them so hard in the long run.

Re:nope (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768921)

"... made quite some nice $$$ in the process."

Um, isn't the console still losing money. I read that MS was aiming for Gaming to be profitable in FY08. With an extra billion dollar hole to dig themselves out of, it might take an extra year, or two to get back to even for them.

What I think is 'odd' [which applied to MS means I think they are lying] is that there was no "pattern' to these XBOX 360 failure for 1.5 years, but one finally appeared in the last 0.25 years. This would make sense IF only a limited batch of them were faulty, but MS extended the warrantee for all 360's, and not just for a batch of 360's within a range of serial numbers.

Arguably, this could result in a shareholder lawsuit, depending on what MS has put in their previous SEC filings [as not mentioning/doing this earlier could be considered to artificially inflate/prop up the share price for MS].

Re:nope (4, Insightful)

badasscat (563442) | more than 7 years ago | (#19769687)

Um, isn't the console still losing money. I read that MS was aiming for Gaming to be profitable in FY08. With an extra billion dollar hole to dig themselves out of, it might take an extra year, or two to get back to even for them.

It's going to take a lot longer than that.

Before this announcement, they were slightly more than $5 billion in the hole on the Xbox and Xbox 360 together. Now they're approximately $6.5 billion in the hole.

That's a huge amount of money. That's like an entire year's worth of MS Office sales (not profit, sales).

What they're talking about in FY08 is profits going forward. But the Xbox program will not be profitable on the whole for many years, if ever. And it won't even be profitable going forward if stuff like this keeps happening.

What I think is 'odd' [which applied to MS means I think they are lying] is that there was no "pattern' to these XBOX 360 failure for 1.5 years, but one finally appeared in the last 0.25 years. This would make sense IF only a limited batch of them were faulty, but MS extended the warrantee for all 360's, and not just for a batch of 360's within a range of serial numbers.

It must be a design flaw, which the article summary got right (this is one of the few sites I've seen with the guts to say it).

Look at it this way. A certain number of units of any piece of electronics are always going to be defective, no way around it. The average is 5%.

MS is now tacitly admitting that their defect rate is well above 5% - for it to cost them $1.3 billion with only 11 million systems out there, the defect rate must in fact be close to 100%. But even if they're counting on fixing some more conservative number of systems - say 30% - that's still well above the industry average. However you look at it, they're admitting to an "unacceptable" number of defective units, and that can only happen if there's something about the design that's causing it to happen.

What that means is that all Xbox 360's are at risk. It doesn't matter when you got yours; it has RROD potential today, tomorrow, and every day after that. That's the case because all 360's are designed the same way - there hasn't yet been a significant change.

I am curious to see what the 360's made after this announcement look like, side by side with a pre-announcement system. If there is no change, then I think it's safe to say the flaw still exists - and I sure wouldn't buy such a system. If there *is* a change, though, then I think we'll have a clearer idea of what the flaw was... but it'll still take time to know whether or not the fix was effective.

Either way, I'd put off buying a system for at least six months at this point. Let the old units work their way through the system, wait for the new units to prove themselves.

Re:Well... (1)

caffeinatedOnline (926067) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768833)

I am curious to see what they will do for the people like myself, who bought the console on launch day, and got the 3 ring death after the 1 year warranty expired. Instead of sending it in and paying $140 to have them fix it, I opened the box up and removed the X bracket on the CPU, and clamped down the heatsink with 4 screws. Turned the system on without the fans running, let it overheat a bit, and tightened down the heatsink, unwarping the MB and reconnecting the pins that had 'warped' out. Has worked perfectly since then. I would love, though, to send it in and have them fix the problems the 'right' way. Guessing, though, that since I voided the warranty by opening the box, I am SOL. *shrug*

Good move (4, Insightful)

nbvb (32836) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766429)

I'm not a Microsoft fan - not by a longshot (I've never - NEVER - used Windows at home. Went from DOS to OS/2 to Mac OS X. But I digress...)

Anyway, this is a great decision on their part. It's nice to see that they acknowledge the problem and are willing to stand behind their product. Nothing negative about that. And they're going to reimburse people who've previously had the repairs done.

This is a good thing, and I'll applaud them for doing the Right Thing (tm).

Not that I'd buy an XBox (hell, all I have in the house is an Intellivision and a Dreamcast...), but it's still good to see them do what's right.

Re:Good move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19766667)

You HAVE used Windows at home, look at that little sticker on your Dreamcast ;)

Re:Good move (1)

nbvb (32836) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767033)

Well, only if you play a game written for WinCE (how appropriately named!), which was most of the online-type titles. Lots of games were written without it. :-)

Re:Good move (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767391)

You HAVE used Windows at home, look at that little sticker on your Dreamcast ;)
Just a few Dreamcast games used WindowsCE, most famously Sega Rally 2 -- which suffered from framerate issues, supposedly because of it.

Re:Good move (3, Insightful)

Araxen (561411) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766797)

It's a good decision on the part, but they had to make this decision otherwise a Class-action Lawsuit was going to come sooner rather than later now.

This still doesn't address the fact that the 360 has a faulty design! I don't know about anyone else but every console system(pretty much anything to hit the market) I have owned is still working today minus an Atari Jaguar. I expect when I buy a system for it to work the life of the console on the market. The Xbox 360 is going to be around more than the 3 year warranty. The 360 has a life of at least 5 to 6 more years. 3 year warranty is nice but doesn't cut it with the design flaw the 360 has.

Re:Good move (2, Insightful)

twistedsymphony (956982) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767731)

Well they have fixed/will be fixing most of the design flaws

They've added a much improved heatsink to the GPU [xbox-scene.com] , They've reinforced the PCB around the processors to keep it from warping [llamma.com] , and they should be pumping out the 65nm chips any day now (for all we know they already are).

It will be much less costly for them to actually fix these errors than to pay for additionally two way shipping and replacement of 1/4 to 1/3rd of everything they produce.

If only... (1, Funny)

niceone (992278) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766439)

If only releasing faulty software would cost them $1billion each time. Ah, I can dream...

Re:If only... (1)

SterlingSylver (1122973) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767349)

That'd be great! That way they could only do it 29 more times before they ran out of their cash on hand!

Why Buy A 360? (4, Insightful)

Zonk (12082) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766495)

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Nooch here. That's a really extreme viewpoint to take. Yes, these technical issues are pretty bad; I myself have returned my 360, though I only had to do it once before I got one that seems solid.

That said, dismissing an entire console because of technical issues is pretty crass to me. Not only have there been several wholly worthwhile titles released for the system already (Crackdown, Overlord, plus tons of multi-system releases), but this summer, fall and next spring bear an avalanche of awesomeness. Bioshock, Mass Effect, that Halo thing, Two Worlds ...

I guess I understand where he's coming from, but I feel reluctant to dismiss great games so casually. Ultimately, it all comes down to the games, and the 360 has some really great offerings.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (3, Funny)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766585)

Yeah, good point, Zonk. I just hate when people are sensationalistic and biased about reporting gaming news. I'm glad you're doing your part to keep that kind of thing from happening.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19766927)

I don't know if this was funny or insightfull :)

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

DarkJC (810888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766773)

Yes, it does come down to the games, no doubt about it. I've been considering a 360 for a long time now because of the games. And you know what? Microsoft would've made a 360 sale by now if it weren't for this pretty terrible issue. I don't want to buy a 360 and have to put up with shipping it back and waiting a month later because of bad design. I don't want to live in fear of wondering when I'll get the hardware failure or wondering if I can safely move it without it scratching disks.

So I'm waiting until they come out with a major revision. Maybe the 65nm series 360s? I don't know, but until this is resolved I'd rather not spend $500 CDN on a Premium just to see it continually shipping back to Microsoft.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19768365)

Wait a month? I sent my 360 in on a Monday and I had it fixed and returned by Friday and played Crackdown all weekend.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767151)

It's a bit of both, really. The widespread reports of poor reliability have cost them sales to people whose whole argument behind getting a console in the first place is for it to 'just work'. Coming out and pretty much confirming that the situation is as bad as rumour suggests probably doesn't help too much.

But on the other hand, this is a great way to buy back some of the goodwill they lost with existing owners. And when the long-awaited die shrink occurs that will hopefully help get more people on board (not just those worried about reliability, but the many people who think the current machine sounds like a hairdryer) too.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767177)

Want some more reasons to dismiss the 360?

* Microsoft has no solution to the hardware failures - system bought this month are still failing

* Microsoft has no solution to the disc scratching problem - you aren't covered under this billion dollar's worth of repairs for anything other than the specific RRoD problems

* The system is the loudest ever due to the crappy 12x speed DVD drive and fans

* Forced to pay 50 dollars a year for online play that adds 250 dollars to the price of the console over five years

* No dedicated servers - laggy games that aren't even hosted by Microsoft

* Low player count games - Gears of War only could handle 8 players, Halo 3 can only handle 16 - that is pathetic in 2007

* Halfassed backwards compatibility - Microsoft tried to get away with skipping it and they were forced to put in an amateur effort where even the games that 'work' don't really work or have major issues

* Absurd peripheral prices

* No ability to upgrade the harddrive - you are forced to only upgrade to one size drive and you have to pay twice as much money as it's worth

* No HD movie playback - Microsoft decided to throw a tantrum over BluRay's Java layer and gamers lost out

* Pathetic storage medium - the 360 is the first console to ever have LESS storage than a previous generation - 7 gigs for the 360 versus 8 gigs for the Xbox. And open world games have to use only a single layer due to the 100 ms layer switch penalty thus limiting games like GTA to only 3.5 gigs

* Botched graphics system - can't handle 1080p in real next gen games like Lair on the PS3 due to the retarded 10 megs of EDRAM that were designed for 480p

* Crappy looking graphics - just look at Microsoft's big first party titles - Forza 2 is an embarrassment that looks like a last gen game and it has horrid rendering artifacts with white speckles everywhere. Halo 3 looks almost exactly like Halo 2 on the Xbox. Shiny metal effect! Wow!

The 360 is a fucking disaster. No one but the most hardcore of existing Xbox owners are willing to put up with the turd of a console.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767851)

Wow, I finally have to make my first post on /.

How many times are you going to post the exact same thing on any x-box 360 or PS3 thread. We get your point, you don't like MS or the 360... fine! At least get an account so I can know to just skip over your posts in the future.

I have a 360, I love it. I've had it for a year. It died on me last week. I called M$, they sent me a box and it's now on it's way back to me. (although, I must be a fanboy because I appreciate them coming out to announce this. In addition, I use winXP at home.. so you know I can't be trusted to make a fair comparison on anything!)

Yes, I'm unhappy it broke it the first place. Yes, I'm ecstatic that it was as easy as a phone call to get it replaced.

For my money (less than I would have spent on the PS3) the 360 was the choice for me.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767955)

What a fucking tool.

You are trying to brag about a console by talking about how it died and you are happy with it. Dummy, did you even think about what you were about to write?

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

guidotheenforcer (1124641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768635)

See how I actually got an account? You should try this, it's pretty neat.

If you'd read for comprehension, instead of just reading each word by itself, you'd see that I'm happy it was so easy to get it repaired.

If the only thing you feel like contributing to a discussion is the same crap repeated over and over, go log onto a Sony board, I'm sure they'd love to have you.

I mean, listen. I'm not saying the 360 is the be all, end all of gaming. I know that MS has apparently made a pretty big mistake with their hardware design, to the tune of $1bn. But if the worst it affects me is for my system to be unavailable for a week... well, I can deal with that.

When I compare the different consoles, I'm still not dissappointed I got the 360.

A gaming PC is higher end than I want to buy.
The PS3 is Fun, I love it, but it's a little more expensive and I don't need blue ray, I still watch standard def tv.
The Wii is a lot of fun with a group of friends, but not the type of gaming I want for solo time.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767929)

I'll bite:

* Microsoft has no solution to the hardware failures - system bought this month are still failing

Their solution is the warranty program and hardware changes (maybe heatsinks [joystiq.com] , maybe something else) will undoubtedly show up soon. The financial onus is now squarely on Microsoft to reduce hardware problems.

* Microsoft has no solution to the disc scratching problem - you aren't covered under this billion dollar's worth of repairs for anything other than the specific RRoD problems

But you would be covered under the 1-year console warranty. I've known someone who this specific issue applied to and got it fixed.

* The system is the loudest ever due to the crappy 12x speed DVD drive and fans

No argument there.

* Forced to pay 50 dollars a year for online play that adds 250 dollars to the price of the console over five years

And it adds 500 over ten years and 5000 over one-hundred years. Look, multiplayer isn't free, but you aren't forced to pay for it, and you aren't forced to pay up front. All other online services are free to other players.

* No dedicated servers - laggy games that aren't even hosted by Microsoft

The entire system is managed by Microsoft and has an impressive track record. Games might be peer-to-peer, but I've never seen lag and voice chat works in every 360 game I've played. What kind of connection do you have?

* Low player count games - Gears of War only could handle 8 players, Halo 3 can only handle 16 - that is pathetic in 2007

How is that an indictment of Microsoft or their console? Neither developer has said that Xbox Live was a restriction for multiplayer match size.

* Halfassed backwards compatibility - Microsoft tried to get away with skipping it and they were forced to put in an amateur effort where even the games that 'work' don't really work or have major issues

I found their advertising fairly clear on this. While I wish all games would work, 90% of my old Xbox games work fine. Go read the compatibility list [xbox.com] , it isn't small. This becomes less of an issue as the system gets older.

* Absurd peripheral prices

Whose [ebgames.com] aren't? That hardly sways me from one console to another.

* No ability to upgrade the harddrive - you are forced to only upgrade to one size drive and you have to pay twice as much money as it's worth

That might be the only accurate thing you said, but again, you aren't forced to upgrade. You aren't even forced to use the HDD at all.

* No HD movie playback - Microsoft decided to throw a tantrum over BluRay's Java layer and gamers lost out

The 360 has the best downloadable HD movie option available at the moment. It also has an HD-DVD drive option, which isn't standard, but the 360 costs $200 less than a PS3 anyway. I don't feel limited by the lack of it.

* Pathetic storage medium - the 360 is the first console to ever have LESS storage than a previous generation - 7 gigs for the 360 versus 8 gigs for the Xbox. And open world games have to use only a single layer due to the 100 ms layer switch penalty thus limiting games like GTA to only 3.5 gigs

I've never heard of this. Oblivion seemed pretty expansive to me, I'm so sad for GTA's worries.

* Botched graphics system - can't handle 1080p in real next gen games like Lair on the PS3 due to the retarded 10 megs of EDRAM that were designed for 480p

You are starting to show your true fanboy. The 360 can output in 1080p and was designed for 720p, which it looks great at. Check out the 360 to PS3 graphics comparisons [eurogamer.net] . There is a marginal difference.

* Crappy looking graphics - just look at Microsoft's big first party titles - Forza 2 is an embarrassment that looks like a last gen game and it has horrid rendering artifacts with white speckles everywhere. Halo 3 looks almost exactly like Halo 2 on the Xbox. Shiny metal effect! Wow!

Halo 3 isn't even out yet and you haven't seen it. Gears of War was lauded as one of the best looking games to date last year.

The 360 is a fucking disaster. No one but the most hardcore of existing Xbox owners are willing to put up with the turd of a console.

Eleven and half million people put up with it just fine. That's hardly a disaster.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19768029)

> Eleven and half million people put up with it just fine.

You wrote all the miserable damage control for the 360 and you blow it by trying to pull the tired old fanboy ship versus sold bullshit.

Dude, get a fucking life.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19768131)

Whatever... a lot of people like the 360. Better?

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 7 years ago | (#19769103)

The shipped vs sold argument is practically meaningless past the first couple of million consoles. How many consoles are stuck in the retail channel at any one point in time? 200,000? 300,000? Hell, lets be generous and give it a cool half million. With 11.6 million units shipped, that's a measly 4% margin of error, and 500,000 units in the retail channel is a ridiculously high estimate. I call that picking nits.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19768209)

The 360 was designed for 480p.

10 megs of EDRAM is the proper size for a 480p 4xAA framebuffer. For 720p developers are forced to write tile based renderers which are tedious and drag down performance. So developers are faced with the nightmare scenario on the 360 of either doing a 480p 4xAA game like the machines was designed to handle, waste time writing a custom tile renderer to get around the poor graphic system design and eat the performance hit, or skip good AA entirely and go with 720p.

The 360 is an absolute nightmare for developers to deal with and it is why you hear them bitching about the system all the time - that is when they are complaining about the too small disc storage.

The screwed up EDRAM situation on the 360 is why so many 360 games look so bad due to being plagued with jaggies from the lack of AA. There was one token game that Microsoft managed to get to run in 1080p and that was a tennis game. Yeah, a tennis game. Don't wait up for any more 1080p game outside of maybe one or two 2D arcade games that manage to go through the effort of writing a tile renderer.

The people who came up with the 360's rendering system really need a severe beating.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 7 years ago | (#19769671)

First of all the developers don't have a decision between doing 480p 4xAA and 720p. Microsoft mandates that all Xbox 360 titles play at at least 720p. And I'm not sure what news sources you're looking at where developers are constantly bashing the system. From what I read, developers usually prefer [gamasutra.com] the Xbox 360, at least over the PS3, which is the only other high def console on the market.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767745)

I have to disagree with him as well. Claiming that there's no reason to own a 360 because of technical issues shows that he completely misunderstands why people buy consoles. It's all about the games, always has been, always will be. And contrary to what Nooch seems to think, the Xbox 360 and it's predecessor offer far more than just Halo in that department.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (2, Insightful)

despisethesun (880261) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768219)

A large percentage of those games are coming out for PC and PS3 as well, so technical issues are a valid reason not to buy a 360. People don't buy consoles just for the games, they buy them because it's supposed to be a hassle-free gaming experience. No wondering if you have the right video card for the game you just bought, no settings to muck around with to get the best framerate, no upgrade treadmill (or at least a severely reduced one), you just pop in the game and it works. If that ceases to be the case, then the lack of 360 exclusives really begins to work against it. I've wanted to get one for some time now, and I'm glad I held out considering all the technical issues and the high failure rate. When MS gets that all sorted out, I'll consider picking one up (assuming I don't have a PS3 by then).

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768971)

Many of them will but many won't (Halo 3, Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, Splinter Cell: Conviction, Too Human, etc...), not to mention the many great exclusives that are already out on the system (Gears of War, Viva Pinata, Crackdown, Forza 2, Dead Rising). And then of course you have to take into account that many of those multi-platform titles are best played on the 360 due to either insane hardware requirements (Bioshock), late releases on other systems (GRAW2), or just downright inferior gameplay (Madden '08). The fact is that you can't dismiss the 360 as a Halo only system, and the author makes himself sound like little more than a ranting fanboy when he does.

Yes, the technical issues are important, and yes any sensible buyer should take them into account when making a purchase. However, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to own a 360 and the author of that article does many of his readers a disservice when he recommends that they "just skip it".

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

Twiceblessedman (590621) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767863)

"Not only have there been several wholly worthwhile titles released for the system already" Only if you enjoy a plethora of shooting games. Other genres have games that are pratically non-existant on that console which is why it's suffering practically everywhere but the states.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (1)

Senobyzal (826207) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768099)

Right, all it has is shooting games. And driving games. And sports. And Live Arcade (can't seem to stop playing Catan of late). And 3rd person action titles (Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Dead Rising). And RPGs (Oblivion). And rythym games (DDR, Guitar Hero 2).

The 360 does have a lot FPS titles, but they make up only a small part of my game library (I prefer FPSes on the PC). Let's be honest here, there's something for everyone on this console, and there are titles like Blue Dragon in the pipeline that will try to appeal to those who like specific genres, like JRPGs. Whether or not that will work, who knows. Personally I find the 360's library to be quite diverse.

Re:Why Buy A 360? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19769741)

While I agree with your general point here, seriously, Crackdown and Overlord are the best 360 exclusives you can come up with?

Obvious answers (5, Insightful)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766499)

Peter Moore has admitted the company is shy of their goal, some 400,000 units short of the 12 million Xboxes they'd planned to ship. These facts combined have made for some grim questions ...

Unless my maths are wrong, they're 3% shy of their target. Which doesn't seem to be too shabby.

... including the San Jose Merc's Nooch asking why you'd want to buy an Xbox in the first place.

Ummm, because the Wii hasn't got the graphics capability of the XBox? The PS3 and the Wii combined don't have the half of the games portfolio that the Xbox has? That the online gaming for the Xbox is way ahead of the other consoles? That the PS3 costs double that of the Xbox?

I don't own any console but this whole piece just seems to be pointless Xbox bashing to me.

Re:Obvious answers (1)

Tom (822) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766675)

Unless my maths are wrong, they're 3% shy of their target. Which doesn't seem to be too shabby.
For some companies, it would. But MS shareholders expect MS to considerably exceed the goals. Even just barely reaching them would be a low point.

Re:Obvious answers (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766837)

re:"That the PS3 costs double that of the Xbox?"

Perhaps if Microsoft didn't skimp on parts or quality control they'd have a more expensive - but more stable offering. Would you pay 100 more to get a system that didn't Red-Disk after a few months of use?

Re:Obvious answers (1)

onecheapgeek (964280) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767733)

- Got my 360 before release through the Pepsi promotion.
- Read the manual where it said to put neither the 360 nor the power brick on the carpet or fully enclosed in an entertainment center.
- Took that advice.
- Still on my original 360, no issues whatsoever.

I've also got a friend who tucked it into his fully enclosed, poorly circulated entertainment center. 3 red disks.

Sometimes it really is the simple things, isn't it?

Re:Obvious answers (1)

nelsonal (549144) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767907)

Since you've admitted to reading the manual, there will need to be a review of whether you can continue to hold (and benefit from all the rights and privledges) of your geek card and secret decoder ring.

Re:Obvious answers (1)

onecheapgeek (964280) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767963)

Gee, I would have thought admitting to owning and liking the 360 would have taken care of that.

Re:Obvious answers (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19766919)

the PS3 costs double that of the Xbox

Figures please?

The 360 is marginally less expensive. You could quote figures for the cheapest 360 and the most expensive PS3, but in reality the 360 often costs more with accessories included.

Double that of the Xbox? (1)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766967)

WHATTTT?!?! Double that of the XBox? Sure, if you completely skimp on everything and forego the ability to do anything with the console other than put a DVD in it, then sure the PS3 is double the cost. But I think everyone would agree that comparing the $299 gimped 360 to the $599 fully enabled PS3 is a bit much. However, seeing as most people are now buying the 360 Elite (if they're buying at all), I think it's safe to assume that double the cost of the Xbox is a wee (or Wii?) exageration.

Way to start a flamewar.

Re:Double that of the Xbox? (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767689)

"However, seeing as most people are now buying the 360 Elite (if they're buying at all),",
Want to cite a source there? Preferably, something that says that > 50% of 360 sales are of the Elite model. I don't think you can find such a figure because MS has been releasing the Elite as a niche product. Stores get more Premium systems in. Scarcity of the Elite doesn't mean that it is the one selling.

Also, your little "if they're buying at all" - isn't exactly a way to start an intelligent conversation so don't criticize others for starting a flamewar when you're continuing it.

Re:Double that of the Xbox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19768129)

His wording wasn't great, but that doesn't change the fact that comparing the lower model Xbox to the higher model PS3 is not an apples to apples comparison. Of course, it was probably just hyperbole and not an attempt at dishonesty. Oh well.

Re:Obvious answers (1)

quitcherbitchen (587409) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767329)

Microsoft might be 3% short of where they want to be, but their sell through is 400,000 units short of what they thought they would sell in fiscal year 2007. That's at least 25% short of their goal for the year (based on having 10.4m sold in 2006).

I agree that the Xbox 360 has a better portfolio of games, but your comparisons with the Wii or PS3 aren't completely accurate. I haven't seen a Wii game yet that rivaled the better games of the original Xbox, regardless of what processing power it may have. The Xbox charges for their online gaming and that the PS3 is currently 50% more than the Xbox, not twice as much as you said. (The PS3 is also rumored [kotaku.com] to drop $100 soon.)

Re:Obvious answers (1)

JordanL (886154) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767653)

That the PS3 costs double that of the Xbox?
Unless you literally meant the XBox 1, I can't count the number of ways this statement is wrong and can be torn appart. Suffice to say I think the following phrase should be heeded:

"Your bias is showing."

Re:Obvious answers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19768301)

The PS3 and the Wii combined don't have the half of the games portfolio that the Xbox has?
To me, the number of playable games determines a console's portfolio.

Almost all of the PS2 titles work on the PS3. Most XBox titles currently do not work on the XBox360.
So really, compare (most of) PS2 + PS3 to (some of) XBox + XBox360.

Unless the original XBox had way more games than the PS2, I'd say you're wrong.

Re:Obvious answers (1)

ookaze (227977) | more than 7 years ago | (#19769217)

Unless my maths are wrong, they're 3% shy of their target. Which doesn't seem to be too shabby
Your math is so wrong that makes my head spin. MS said they sold (to retailers) 10.4 M XB360 by end of 2006.
They had to ship 1.6 M XB360 in SIX MONTHS to reach 12 M XB360. They only sold 1.2 M!
So, they're actually 25 % short of their target, which is extremely shabby. Besides, shipping 1.2 M console in 6 months is a bad target of 200k consoles a month. But your spin was near believable.

Ummm, because the Wii hasn't got the graphics capability of the XBox? The PS3 and the Wii combined don't have the half of the games portfolio that the Xbox has? That the online gaming for the Xbox is way ahead of the other consoles? That the PS3 costs double that of the Xbox?
Wrong on some counts. The Wii probably have caught up to the games portfolio XBox 360 has thanks to perfect retro compatibility and most of all, Virtual Console. And yes, Virtual Console sells millions of games.
And no, the PS3 is not double the cost of the XBox 360, not at all, especially if you want to mix online gaming in the advantages of XBox 360.

Costing customer good will? (4, Insightful)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766501)

MS may be late to acknowledge the issue - no later than I'd expect any major corp to be, but late regardless - but if retroactively extending the 90-day warranty to three years isn't a move to earn customer good will, I don't know what they could do that would.

I mean, aside from shipping free 360s to every gamer on the planet...which seems a little unreasonable.

I'm not one to throw out accusations of spin too often, but trying to present this as some sort of disrespect, slam, or screw job by MS seems a little unwarranted.

Re:Costing customer good will? (1)

Kasracer (865931) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767213)

They're extending the 1-year warranty to 3 years. The 90 day warranty was changed to 1 year a long time ago

Re:Costing customer good will? (2, Interesting)

HarvardAce (771954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767307)

MS may be late to acknowledge the issue - no later than I'd expect any major corp to be, but late regardless - but if retroactively extending the 90-day warranty to three years isn't a move to earn customer good will, I don't know what they could do that would.
I wholeheartedly agree. I experienced the dreaded 3 red rings just over a year after I had bought my console (I got it the first week it was released). At the time it broke, the warranty was only 3 months on it. They then extended it to one year shortly after that, but I was still out of luck because it was over one year. I was not thrilled with shelling out $140 to get it repaired (and $20 to ship it to them only to find out that the day after I shipped it they were now paying for shipping both ways as part of the $140...argh), but it was cheaper than any of my other options. Now they are going to refund the $140 I paid, and I am very happy for it. I'm not sure how that would cost customer good will -- if anything it shows me that Microsoft will stand behind its products, which is much more than I could say for Sony who wanted $200 to repair the PS2 with disc read errors (when the thing cost $250 new in the store).

Re:Costing customer good will? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767405)

"if anything it shows me that Microsoft will stand behind its products, which is much more than I could say for Sony who wanted $200 to repair the PS2 with disc read errors (when the thing cost $250 new in the store)."

And there you have it folks. Why the gaming world despises Xbox fanboys. Their answer to the 360 hardware failure fiasco? Make up lies about the PS2. How fucking dare you disparage the hardware work of so many talented hardware engineers just for the sake of your pathetic attempts at damage control for Microsoft's incompetence.

Fanboys like you are the shit on the shoe of the gaming world.

Good will (4, Insightful)

DogDude (805747) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766517)

Somebody doesn't understand what "good will" means. By voluntarily admitting to problems and accepting returns/recalls, they are increasing good will towards themselves. Not admitting to a problem hurts goodwill. I'm not buying an XBox 360 because I don't like them, but I wouldn't not buy one because of this recall/warranty stuff.

Re:Good will (1)

Hozza (1073224) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767325)

Except its not voluntary. They have to pre-announce they're taking a 1Billion hit this financial quarter due to SEC regulation. Funnily enough they also announced they expect the XBOX division to be profitable next year. i.e. they're taking a huge loss now so they can claim a profit next year for their shareholders.

Only admitting to a problem due to regulatory procedures and shareholder interests? That isn't going to increase customer goodwill.

Re:Good will (1)

Quastor (797378) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767645)

They have to pre-announce they're taking a 1Billion hit this financial quarter due to SEC regulation. Funnily enough they also announced they expect the XBOX division to be profitable next year. i.e. they're taking a huge loss now so they can claim a profit next year for their shareholders.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you aren't a CPA. They aren't "pre-announcing" a 1 billion dollar hit. They've extended the Xbox 360's warranty to 3 years, which covers every single 360 currently in a home. Now, because they've done this FASB's accounting standards state that they must recognize a liability for the potential cost to the company if all these warranties are called in. I would expect the actual hit to their bottom line from Warranty Expenses will be less than this 1 billion figure, and that will be spread out over next few years. So it doesn't just hit them this year to help make next year profitable, as they can have expenses from this 3 year warranty easily hit next year and the year after as well.

Crap - have to eat crow (2, Insightful)

svendsen (1029716) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766521)

I'll be the first to say I under estimated the xbox 360 failure rate and will go eat some crow during lunch. When I am wrong I am wrong.

So I wonder how MS will fix this? Yes they will fix the design flaw but I think their only next move is too replace all the 360s out there. Upgrade each unit by the next step up (core users gets premium , premium users get elite, and elite get a free game + a fixed unit).

I am also curious to know if this move will bring a class action lawsuit against MS (I'm guessing yes) and if those with one can simply say I am returning this for full refund even if its 1 year later because it's a known design issue. Could I call up my credit card company and say the product I was sold was a lemon I want to reverse charges to *Insert where bought here*, etc.

Now the Nooch article is just a troll. Why would anyone want the 360. Games buddy. Seriously he points to the ps3 as much better but doesn't offer a bench mark to compare them. Based on games alone (right now) the 360 wins. Want a built in blu ray then the ps3 wins.

Either way MS is in some crap for this one. My 360 has not given me one issue yet this pisses me off.

Re:Crap - have to eat crow (2, Insightful)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767149)

Why fix all the units? Why not just fix the broken ones?

True, I'd absolutely love for Microsoft to upgrade me to an Elite for my trouble, but those things use a whole different motherboard. You think MS is going to just chuck all 10M existing units in the trash for the asking? That would cost them a lot more than $1.15B.

Customer goodwill? (5, Insightful)

vigmeister (1112659) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766547)

Ok. Someone explain to me why this is going to COST MS goodwill. I purchased my Sony laptop explicitly because they were offering returns on their batteries based on a few isolated incidents (not sure if this was legally mandated). That shows that Sony wanted to pretend to do the right thing for the customer which benefits me in the long run. It makes perfect sense to buy an XBox360 if you thought that the price was right before the warranty announcement and fanbois are probably going to be happy about the warranty. Regardless of the high percentage of problems, most customers - >50% - still have a working system and if they do not, eventually will - for 3 years. If your PS3 dies after 15 months, you suck on it. Eventually, all that matters is the image and how much you think they will do in the future to keep that image up. And I think this is a + for MS in my book.

Re:Customer goodwill? (1)

HarvardAce (771954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767145)

That shows that Sony wanted to pretend to do the right thing for the customer which benefits me in the long run.
I was going to call you out on this until I read it again and saw the word pretend. We all know that Sony doesn't do anything right for the customer!

Re:Customer goodwill? (1)

vigmeister (1112659) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767357)

I was going to call you out on this until I read it again and saw the word pretend. We all know that Sony doesn't do anything right for the customer!
We allso[1] know that these corps do things only to increase profitability. However, I prefer dealing with companies that think customer service is important for profitability. It's like Mother Teresa. She probably helped all those people in Calcutta for her own selfish pleasure, but I still respect her for getting her priorities right :) [1] Allso - contraction for 'all also' Cheers!

This is Dr. Evil's doing (5, Funny)

Megane (129182) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766549)

"Hello? Microsoft? I have had one of our agents place a flaw in your Xbox 360 video game system. It is a simple flaw, easily fixed, but only if you know what it is. I shall give you this information if you give me ONE MILLION... What was that? Oh, really? That's good to know, thanks. (ahem) I shall give you this information if you give me ONE BIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLION DOLLARS! Muhahahahahaaaaa!"

Re:This is Dr. Evil's doing (1)

vigmeister (1112659) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766609)

No No Dr. Evil! As No.4, I feel obliged to tell you that perhaps you should sell it here [slashdot.org] and invite Nintendo to bid.

Cheers!

What again? (3, Insightful)

LordPhantom (763327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766589)

I'm not a Microsoft fanboy.... and I likely wouldn't buy an XBOX on principle.... but isn't this headline a bit inflammatory?

So Microsoft's sales projections are off 400,000 units on 12 million, suddenly the world seems less bright? They've made bucketloads of money (although the warranty extension might cause some trouble). The negative editorial linked in the article seems light on reasoning and heavy on opinion, but does all of this really warrant grim questions? It's not like the console or Microsoft is going to go under because they had to extend the warranty on the hardware. It's not like this thing is the Phantom or NeoGeo or something.

Re:What again? (4, Insightful)

Tom (822) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766615)

They've made bucketloads of money
That's the point. They haven't. The whole console branch is a loss leader. Less consoles means less games sold means less of the only part of the console business where there is actual profit potential.

Yes, it's a major problem, especially for a company that is very used to exceeding their goals.

Re:What again? (4, Informative)

KokorHekkus (986906) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767061)

Just wanted to back you up with some figures on how little of an success that Microsofts Home and Entertainment division is so far (products in the division is Xbox 360; Xbox; Xbox Live; CPxG (consumer software and hardware products); and IPTV).

The total operating loss for that division for the years 2004 to 2006 is $3.084 billion (yes $3084 million) on a total revenue that was, for those years, $10.133 billion. So they have to turn that divsions average 30% operating loss into a profit and try to recoup those $3 billion. That will not be easy.

Source Microsofts 10-K filed with the SEC:http://microsoft.shareholder.com/redesign/Edga rDetail.asp?CIK=789019&FID=1193125-06-180008&SID=0 6-00 [shareholder.com]

Re:What again? (1)

HarvardAce (771954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767207)

So they have to turn that divsions average 30% operating loss into a profit and try to recoup those $3 billion. That will not be easy.
CNN has an article [cnn.com] about the story. From it:

Bach said the new warranty would not impact the Xbox division's plan to turn a profit in fiscal 2008, which started this month.
Bach is the president of Microsoft's entertainment and devices division. Granted, "plan" is no guarantee, but they are expecting to make a profit this year.

Re:What again? (2, Insightful)

despisethesun (880261) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768431)

They expected to sell 12 million 360s by now too, and they just admitted they failed there (though not by that much). I'm not saying it's impossible for them to make a profit, but given the incompetence shown so far, I wouldn't bet on it.

Re:What again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767777)

They were down 5 billion when they pulled the plug on the first Xbox mess. Microsoft has lost about 1 to 2 billion over the two years or so the 360 has been on the market - harder this time to get accurate numbers for just the console stuff this time due to mixing in with other projects in the quarterly reports.

And now there is another 1.1 billion added to the current red ink totals so right now Microsoft is looking at a 7-8 billion dollar hole for the six years they have been in the console market. It is now impossible that Microsoft will ever make back what they have wasted in the console market even if they started making a reasonable profit from here on out. And of course the almost comical "we'll be profitable NEXT year predictions have yet to ever come true"

Outside of silly fanboy hand waving about "owning the living room" someone up in Redmond needs to clean house or just kill the basketcase of a division off and move on.

Re:What again? (1)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 7 years ago | (#19769445)

I seem to remember pre-Xbox launch quotes from Microsoft stating that they expected to lose $10 billion or so entering the console market. It shouldn't be surprising - entering a market like the console market isn't going to be quickly profitable. They were selling Xboxes for a $100+ loss per unit on launch, quite openly.

The Windows and Office divisions are Microsoft's big earners. They can afford to lose ten billion dollars in a decade when they've got forty billion on hand for such things.

Re:What again? (1)

LordPhantom (763327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768197)

But they are -planning- to do so. Admittedly that's no indication of what will actually happen, but their plan has never been to make money off the bat. I'm not saying they'll succeed, but rather that this isn't a major change to what was already going to happen. Implying that this is the one thing that might put the XBox under is somewhat misleading.

Re:What again? (0, Redundant)

Boogaroo (604901) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768865)

Yes, but you can't go ten years without your shareholders asking why you're pissing off billions of dollars. If you never make a profit it's not a loss leader, it's a failure.

Re:What again? (1)

bk_veggie (807894) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767345)

Wait, how is SNK relevant to any of this?

Costing Customer Good will? (3, Insightful)

Krinsath (1048838) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766665)

I'm not terribly sure about that. Most people who were formerly mad at Microsoft will be mollified by the fact that they at least stepped up and admitted an error, no matter how long it took them to actually do so and that the money (if not the time) is being refunded. People, in general, are generally fairly tolerant of people who make mistakes when they A) acknowledge them and B) make amends for any injury caused. Microsoft is doing both, so I'm fairly sure that will build customer goodwill in the long-term. The people who look down on them for this were probably the people who would do so regardless, so why bother attempting to please people who aren't interested in being pleased? As far as "grim news" about the shortfall in 360 sales....a 4% shortfall? That's what 400,000 units of 12 million equates to. This is "grim"? What's Sony's shortfall on the PS3 at the moment? We won't mention Nintendo of course as they've been a runaway success by any standards. While I'm personally greatly annoyed by my 360 with the way it's clearly malfunctioning (play a game longer than an hour or two and I run the risk of the disc magically becoming "unreadable") but not badly enough to get it repaired under warranty, I still enjoy the platform. I do have to question some of the rather sensationalist headlines on this story though.

Re:Costing Customer Good will? (1)

Mawginty (882393) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768195)

I buy the cost in customer goodwill, to a point. While MS denied that there was a systematic flaw, then I was disposed to think that the failure rates were more or less on par with any consumer electronic device, maybe on the high end. The failure rate, I thought, was magnified on the internet because gamers are generally a more computer literate (and vocal!) bunch. Now I know that the failure rate is well above that of most devices. Even if there is a warranty, I'd rather not have to go through the hassle of returning a console. And even though its bully that they are extending the warranty for those that buy/bought the flawed system, it doesn't make me want to buy it. Now, if I were to buy a gaming console (which I'm considering), I'd want to wait for another 6-12 mos. to see what happens to game portfolios, as opposed to yesterday when I was seriously thinking of getting a 360 today.

Re:Costing Customer Good will? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19769265)

Yugo admits car sucks. Consumers reportedly feel better.

Skip it (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766849)

including the San Jose Merc's Nooch asking why you'd want to buy an Xbox in the first place.

Yea, I went there and the article title read with huge letters: "XBOX 360 - just skip it"

I wasn't very sure if he means skip the console, or skip the article, so I skipped the article.

Don't worry about tech issues (2, Insightful)

Taulin (569009) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766869)

My 360 went bad, but the return process MS has setup is so painless and quick (same week deliver and return), it didn't bother me. My Wii and 360 together cover all assets of console gaming, and I love them both. I would get a PS3, but all the good games for it are also out on the 360, so I don't see a reason yet. I can see how all the news of tech problems could deter someone from getting one, but if they are mild to high level console player, they are really missing out.

Such Bullshit (4, Insightful)

ObiWanStevobi (1030352) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766943)

Never had any trouble with the PS2, yeah right. I've had the same disc read errors with that that you eventually get on any machine.

Anyway, what is the reason you buy any console? It's the games. I don't buy a console to play music, watch video, or IM. I buy one because I want to play the new high end games and I cannot afford the bleeding edge of high-end PC gaming. Yeah, the Wii is fun for minigames, but not even in the same league as PCs, 360, or PS3. To suggest that it is an alternative to them is totally bogus. I have a Wii that is a lot of fun with company, but not much fun otherwise. It has weak graphics, and it's games by and large have very little depth. It provides a gaming exerience much different than that of the other consoles. For those that want graphics, depth, and powerful AI, the Wii is no substitute.

Why buy a 360? Once again, it's the games, and the cost. Want to play Halo 3, you're going to need a 360, or ruin your powerful PC with Vista. That's a no-brainer. Want to play Dead Rising, Ace Combat 6, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Forza 2, Bioshock, etc.? You're gonna need a 360 for most of them, or PC with a graphics card that costs more than a 360.

The PS3 seems to have plenty of power, but no games to really take advantage of it. Oblivion is the best game the PS3 has, and it plays just as well on the Xbox, and even better on the PC. Other than that, the PS3 has a long list of lackluster titles. With better titles, the PS3 would be a better system, but it keeps missing out on exclusives that really hurt it.

Finally, you have online service and achievement points. Being able to see all your friends on and invite them into a game while they are watching a movie or playing another game is pretty cool, as well are the game demos and extra content you find on Xbox Live. And although you would think those achievement points are just a gimic, and they are, they are a very compelling one.

The 360 has the games and online. Until PS3 can at least come up with some good games, it is a high-priced movie player. If you can afford PC gaming at that level, neither console is appealing.

What else does it take?? (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 7 years ago | (#19766959)

How can admitting a problem, offering to fix and offering a warranty extension longer than any other console hurt their good will? If anything I believe it will get some that were on the fence about the 360 to buy one now.

Why buy a 360? A great library of games far better than the competition and a price that far lower (please dont argue the symantecs of a bluray player that most of us dont care about, im not buying the hd-addon for the 360 either).

so far most games just look better. Look at the EA sports offerings this year, the 360 versions look sharper and run at 60 frames a second, the ps3 versions run at 30. Supposedly that due to the learning curve of programming to the cel processor. Fanboys will argue that once they figure that out games wil blow the competition away, but every console has eeked out better graphics and performance over the course of its life, another year of figuring out the cel is another year or tweaking with the 360's processors as well.

Re:What else does it take?? (3, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767163)

Because to do so, they have to admit that they were denying the problem in the first place. There were shops that were refusing returns and telling the customers to go directly to MS for repair because MS wouldn't take any more returns from the shop, stating they didn't believe there could be that many bad consoles.

That's good customer service, yeah!

So as a consumer, how should I see this?

A) No worries, it won't happen to me!
B) It's okay, I'll only be without my console for a week to a month or so.
C) Microsoft only admits problems once the become a PR nightmare. If I buy their next product, I'd best be sure to wait until it's stable.

People are -already- doing C with their software products. 'Wait for SP1 before you buy Vista.' etc. MS even recently told people NOT to do that specifically, admitting that it's a known action people are taking.

How much more will it take before people just start referring to MS as the 'wait before you buy' company?

No, there's plenty of 'customer good will' lost here. The only way to engender good will is to be proactive, no reactive. (ie: Don't wait for 1/3 of your customers to complain before believing them.)

Re:What else does it take?? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767333)

You fucking cocksucking Xbot shut the fuck up. The world knows all about your fucking piece of garbage console and its shitty library of crappy looking games.

You got that you fucking piece of garbage fanboy. The console world is sick of you piece of shit Xbots shitting all over the net. Fucking losers.

the markettroll forces are on the march I see. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767461)

Fun drinking game:
- scan all pro-$company posts.
- every time you catch preformed phrases repeating themselves across multiple posts, take a shot. 'great library of games', 'blow the competition away', etc.
- Profit!

Hopefully (1)

JamesRose (1062530) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767071)

This means that next genreration there will be an affordable PS4- which would be very competitive, a reliable Xbox 3, which would be very competitive, and a wii2 that actually has better hardware than my stapler, which combined with its ability of taking advantage of hardware would be very competitve.

12 million? (2, Funny)

crivens (112213) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767075)

Is that 12 million 360s, one per customer? Or does it include sending replacements to people under warranty?

Twiddling the numbers? (1)

dintech (998802) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767113)

short of the 12 million Xboxes they'd planned to ship

Hey Microsoft, it doesn't count if you're shipping to the same gamer who's had his break 10 times.

400K (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767231)

They missed predictions by only 3%? In some quarters that gets you a book deal and a show on MSNBC.

It did cost good will... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767261)

...in the sense that they are 400K units short of their goal. The headline is poorly worded to reflect the fact that - due to an increased focus on 360 failure rates - some customers either A) did not think the price worth the plunge, or B) were tired of being jerked around by being given refurbished systems (sometimes more than one) that would fail soon after. When customers post stories about how they are on their third or fourth system - and you'd rarely find one that is ever "positive", for obvious reasons - you start to see why their good will towards MS is being worn down. Headline should have said "-May Have Costed- Customer Good Will."

I think its great that they are extending the warranty to FINALLY give consumers a decent safety net for their purchase. I am in the camp that still says that if it was worth making, they should have done it right the first time. Either way, I would say its going to be hard to file a class-action lawsuit (as one or two comments mention) because MS is redressing problems with their hardware by extending the warranty and refunding customers the costs of their repairs. Should have done it in the first place, but better late than never.

Duh. Der. D'oh. (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 7 years ago | (#19767343)

San Jose Merc's Nooch asking why you'd want to buy an Xbox in the first place.

Uh, because of piles of great games, both present and upcoming? Is this so difficult to understand? Are journalists rerally as dense as they seem to be? It's the games, games, games. Just started Overlord, and haven't laughed so much at a game since Psychonauts.

Some of us look at game consoles as entertainment and not as a religion where holy wars must be waged against the other consoles. If the Wii and PS3 get enough exclusive games I want, I'll get them as well.

TEH GAMEZ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767517)

Uh, both Nintendo and Sony have more developers than Microsoft - the 360 has more games NOW, but that's because the Wii and PS3 have yet to see their second x-mas. Most 360 games are ALSO OUT ON THE PS2! So tell me, why would you a buy a system for Bioshock, Halo 3, Mass Effect, ect. when it'll break before those games come out? Why would anyone buy a console right now anyway? It's summertime. I still play my PS3 on rainy days but plopping my ass in front of the T.V. for hours is something I try to reserve for winter time.

Anyway, if people wouldn't support the 360 then those games who want to play would go to other consoles. So why are you supporting the console that breaks all the time and is made by Microsoft?

Profits. . . (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767353)

Um, is anyone else wondering how the 360 will ever profit given how much money the XBox project has already burned? I would never buy a product which wasn't designed to make money off of me because any alterior motive for a company to give me a product I don't trust. How many thousands of dollars has Microsoft spent on each XBox/360 owner? It's like a rich dork courting an amazing girl - throwing money all over the place for her and not giving a shit that she's using him for $$$. How does this benefit the rich dork? He makes her depend on him and marry him and write a prenumpt to keep her around.

Now more than ever the Microsoft assimilation jokes should be going on but apparently everyone's okay with Microsoft being devious as long as it's in the name of Halo. You don't burn money like they are without the goal of monopolization. Microsoft has done nothing but exploit the weaknesses of capitalism and the people who are aware of it aren't nearly as vocal as they should be. This is why they have their Windows monopoly, their Office monopoly, and why they have a chance of monopolizing "home entertainment." It's because the Slashdot geeks who are supposed to be boycotting this shit and supporting non-evil (yeah, I said evil) alternatives are too busy playing Halo on their 360 or Half-Life on the Windows PC.

It doesn't piss me off when Joe-Shmoe-I-don't-know-a-HardDrive-from-HighDefini tion buys a Microsoft product because he's an uniformed consumer. It pisses me off when someone who knows how fucked up Microsoft is buys their products anyway. You make assimilation jokes then jack yourselves in.

Re:Profits. . . (1)

Floritard (1058660) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768059)

I'm sorry you must be in the wrong place. This is the Microsoft fanboy discussion. Your rational comments have no power here.

Re:Profits. . . (1)

SparkyFlooner (1090661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768383)

Why would I boycott the 360? The games are fun, and the online play is effortless.

My 360 is in the shop right now. And yeah, it sucks, and it's the only console I've ever had that has broken down, but I'm okay with it, because, hardware issues aside, there's real quality in the system.

So go ahead and boycott. Let me know how that goes for you. I'm sure the 12 million other 360 owners will realize they're not REALLY having fun with their 360. They'll realize Microsoft has used their evil monopolistic powers to change what 'fun' is, and 360 owners will cast aside their 360s and await the Game Messiah, who will arrive bearing the Perfect Console.

In the meantime, I'm going to go play some Gears of War till Halo 3 comes out.

Re:Profits. . . (2, Insightful)

Alexpkeaton1010 (1101915) | more than 7 years ago | (#19769029)

No where in that incoherent babble of a comment did I see anything relating to logic or common sense. They sell you a console, and then sell you games for it. They also sell you a subscription to play on a closed online network which offers both free and paid content. What the hell is wrong with this? When the consoles break they extend everyone's warranty and fix everything for free. How is that evil?

Even if Bill Gates bought and sold virgins on the black market Sony would still be 1000000x more evil than MS just because of Sony BMG. And the reason why MS is kicking the snot out of Sony is not because of a "monopoly", it is because Sony arrogantly was not willing to pay for 3rd party exclusives, while MS was.

MS took a gamble? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767627)

Part of me can't help but wonder if Microsoft had some idea about the hardware problems from the beginning, and they just thought it would be cheaper to let it go and take care of it in the future, if it turned out to be a big deal.
Maybe the hardware to make it work properly was expensive at the time (> $1 billion to fix it later). They could also make themselves look good by later spending some of the money that they would have used to make it work properly in the first place.

On the other hand, maybe they are just being nice and giving their customers a break.. its better than a kick in the arse, anyways.

That's a huge cost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19767813)

$1.05 billion
11.6 million consoles
~$90 per console

ouch

How much are these selling for? $400? $500 with extras?

Crying out (1)

Mdentari (979766) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768143)

And then I heard the sound of a million fanbois crying out in pain. I almost bought a 360. Thank God I didn't.

I have thought about buying one..but can't. (1)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 7 years ago | (#19768569)

If I am going to bother to buy one I want the best one available (I guess that marketing might have worked) so I want an elite unit. However there are none to be found. Now I hear they are going to be luanching the Elite in Japan. How about getting the home shores back filled before branching out!
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