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Swedish Police to Block Pirate Bay

CowboyNeal posted about 7 years ago | from the guilty-until-proven-innocent dept.

Censorship 398

An anonymous reader writes "The Swedish Police just can't seem to leave The Pirate Bay at bay. It's been a year and two months since the worlds largest torrent tracker, The Pirate Bay, was originally raided and shut down by police, and now they're at it again, but with claims of child pornography. Brokep, over at The Pirate Bay (TPB), got a 'heads up' from a friend that the Swedish Police are going to put the site on its porn filter blacklist; this means anyone who tries to access the site from Sweden will get redirected to another site with a message explaining that they are not allowed to visit child pornography sites."

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Very Orwellian (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19778915)

And I'm surprised Sweden are the USA's bitch.

Re:Very Orwellian (2, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | about 7 years ago | (#19779371)

If they were the USA's bitch, they'd be blocking access to the US - this, perversely, only affects Swedes.

Re:Very Orwellian (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779453)

Which is exactly the wrong way round for Swedish copyright law.

Re:Very Orwellian (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779901)

Only Swedes?
What about all the Tor users routing through Sweden?

Swedish police have that much control? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19778919)

And Europeans try to claim that the United States has police-state problems?

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19778953)

It's because of a law that was imposed upon them by the EU, because such legislation was "suggested" to them by american lobbyists. For fighting the evil terrorists and child pornographers, of course.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (3, Interesting)

hjf (703092) | about 7 years ago | (#19778981)

the latter is just the excuse for the public. People won't give up their rights to prevent terrorism (which is likely to happen in Europe), but they will in order to stop "child abuse", which is not likely to happen in Europe or the US (it does happen, it happens everywhere. But some countries, especially asian and other poor regions, suffer more from that. And those places don't have the resources to combat that).

If the US and Europe are interested in protecting the children, they would be better off spending some money to stop child prostution in asia, instead of busting 10 basement-dwelling pedophiles and making a big fuss of it.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (4, Interesting)

TapeCutter (624760) | about 7 years ago | (#19779637)

The rock spiders in the basement are the ones who fund the asian child-porn. No matter how much I loath these people I do recognise that most need therapy more than they need prison. That said, "therapy" starts with cutting off their access to the "trade" and simultaneously providing other oportunities for the "workers".

Banning TPB however is not going to work, what "works" is using the evidence to track the producers & regular consumers down. Unfortunately it ain't gonna happen, one of the problems is that some of these people also walk the halls of power, as they found in Denmark in the 90's, no funds - no investigation. It's not just the EU, remeber the guy in congress who liked 14yo boys and "championed" the sex offenders list. If you think about that last one the intent would seem to be to trivialise "sex offender" by lumping porn lovers, streakers, skinny dippers, ect in with rapists, pedophiles and the child slave "trade".

Disclaimer: I also realise what constitutes a child can sometimes lead to gross injustice [wikipedia.org] (surely that poor bastard is more deserving of a comute than Libby?).

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1)

wildBoar (181352) | about 7 years ago | (#19779783)

starts with cutting what off .... I know where I would start...

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1)

wildBoar (181352) | about 7 years ago | (#19779805)

that said, calling Pirate Bay a child porn site and blocking it does seem ridiculous.

Believing in freedom of information and speech and providing a platform for that is hardly the same as posting the pictures and/or taking them - whatever anyone says.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1)

Teun (17872) | about 7 years ago | (#19779151)

If this is imposed upon the Swedes, why not on other (European) nations?
Strange sort of explaining the workings of Swedish police and democracy.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1)

empaler (130732) | about 7 years ago | (#19779937)

Because the European countries are autonomous?

Apart from that, the Swedish police has responded to complaints about this along the lines of "If the content is removed before we re-review this case in two weeks' time, we won't ban them". They apparently did not point to any such material, though. Kinda like Butters' parents: "STOP MAKING FACES AT YOUR MOTHER!"


(For those who haven't seen that episode of South Park; he wasn't making faces. (I really hate spoiling jokes))

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1)

obi (118631) | about 7 years ago | (#19778957)

One doesn't exclude the other.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19778959)

And Europeans try to claim that the United States has police-state problems?

Yeah right, because Sweden IS Europe.

But hey... don't let that stop you making stuff up, to fit your view of the world.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779137)

swedes are europeans, are they not? Here's a little fuck you for your morning coffee - asswipe.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779511)

but not all europeans are swedes... kind of like not all americans being Utahians

but hey, don't let logic stand in the way of you being an idiot

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (3, Insightful)

someone1234 (830754) | about 7 years ago | (#19779215)

This whole fuckup is forced by USA private companies (RIAA & co) on Sweden, so, well, you can say that Europeans got a problem with USA as a police-state. But, it is even worse, we got problems with (RIAA & co) acting as police even outside the USA.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779309)

the RIAA has control over the Swedes??? I mean, what the hell are you talking about "forced". Anything the Swedish gov does, it does by choice - no corporation from the US is at fault for the swedish police state.

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (2, Insightful)

empaler (130732) | about 7 years ago | (#19779959)

the RIAA has control over the Swedes??? I mean, what the hell are you talking about "forced". Anything the Swedish gov does, it does by choice - no corporation from the US is at fault for the swedish police state.
Kinda like Russia autonomously deciding to shut down AllOfMP3. It wasn't force

Re:Swedish police have that much control? (1)

tolan-b (230077) | about 7 years ago | (#19779375)

Yes this is no different to De-CSS linking from 2600, only about a more serious target material (child porn vs. DMCA covering 'circumvention' software).

Both are wrong but don't make out the US is any better with this sort of thing.

Gosh! (5, Funny)

peterb (13831) | about 7 years ago | (#19778933)

How dare those jackbooted thugs be making life inconvenient for those who want to upload and download copyrighted materials without paying for them! We've got to take a stand here and nip this fascism in the bud. First it's keeping me from watching The Transformers or playing Lego Star Wars for free, and then the next step will be to set up the gas chambers! THIS AGGRESSION MUST NOT STAND.

Re:Gosh! (1)

Goaway (82658) | about 7 years ago | (#19779117)

Not to mention those who just want to look at some Underage Teen Models!

Re:Gosh! (5, Insightful)

proind (837269) | about 7 years ago | (#19779129)

This is not about fighting piracy anymore. In this case they just showed they can block any site, by claiming it's child porn related. if TPB broke any Swedish law that has to do with copyright infringement , the police would have no problem shutting them down. Since they couldn't do that , they decided to take another route, a route that shows exactly why censorship is bad (the ability to randomly block sites claiming the protection of children/adults/small furry animals ).

Re:Gosh! (5, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | about 7 years ago | (#19779393)

I think the problem here is that a law meant to protect children is being abused to protect copyright.

Re:Gosh! (2, Insightful)

empaler (130732) | about 7 years ago | (#19779981)

I think the problem here is that a law meant to protect children is being abused to protect copyright.
Just like that recent case where anti-terrorism laws were used to catch pedophiles.

I fervently hold the opinion that those involved in child pornography ought to be neutered, but when the law gets abused by the state, then you know you're heading in a wrong direction.

Re:Gosh! (2, Insightful)

Dogtanian (588974) | about 7 years ago | (#19779973)

How dare those jackbooted thugs be making life inconvenient for those who want to upload and download copyrighted materials without paying for them!
Whatever the rights and the wrongs of The Pirate Bay doing what they do with copyrighted material, this has nothing to do with the reason given by the police for blocking them. (Mis-)use of the law and unsubstantiated charges (child porn, or "Y") unrelated to the actual reason (piracy, or "X") is an ominous development, even if the original charge is worthy of prosecution. Mainly because it doesn't matter whether X is legal or not (it might just upset the government), or even if they've done anything at all- you can prosecute someone on trumped-up charges regardless.

think of the children! (4, Funny)

hjf (703092) | about 7 years ago | (#19778945)

Won't someone please think of the children!?

Re:think of the children! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779017)

Think of the children, eh? Filthy pervert! I'm reporting you to the Swedish police!

Re:think of the children! (5, Insightful)

mpe (36238) | about 7 years ago | (#19779051)

Won't someone please think of the children!?

Slashdot probably needs a rating of "ironic". Putting TPB on a list of "Child Porn" websites, for political reasons. Somewhat defeats the object of having such a list. People might well wonder what else has been deliberatly misclassified.
This is a fairly common issue with commercial censorware. Do the Swedish police really want to be associated with "cowboy" software companies?

Re:think of the children! (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 7 years ago | (#19779927)

Do the Swedish police really want to be associated with "cowboy" software companies?

Why not ? They are already associated with cowboy copyright organizations after the first Pirate Bay incident.

NO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779217)

Won't someone please think of the children!?

No.

I suggest that parents look after their own children for a change, instead of shirking their responsibilities and turning the world into a nanny and police state.

And keep them out of our world of grown-ups until they're old enough.

Re:think of the children! (4, Funny)

Spy der Mann (805235) | about 7 years ago | (#19779269)

Won't someone please think of the children!?

Yeah, where are they going to get their free movies and music?

Re:think of the children! (1)

Tsagadai (922574) | about 7 years ago | (#19779495)

Depends on how you think of the children as to how fast the police reach your door.

incorrect (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19778947)

Everyone with some insight in the matter and knows how to read swedish know that the chances of this actually happening are slim to none. But hay, go go go slashdot~

We will fight this and we will win. Again! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19778967)

We fought the censoring of AllOfMP3 and won. We will change this decision as well. Proud to be Swedish! Proud to be a member of http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/ [piratpartiet.se]

I wondered how soon this would happen... (2, Interesting)

niceone (992278) | about 7 years ago | (#19778971)

after they opened their uncensored image upload service (bayimg.com).

Re:I wondered how soon this would happen... (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 7 years ago | (#19779057)

uncensored image upload service

Since you reminded me of the URL I went back and looked at some favourites from a couple of weeks ago but they seem to be gone, along with their tags.

Re:I wondered how soon this would happen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779421)

they're there, you just don't know how to look for them

Re:I wondered how soon this would happen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779717)

Except it's only uncensored as in freedom of speech, they remove images that are illegal according to Swedish law. Your theory is just plain wrong.

Libel? (1)

xmedar (55856) | about 7 years ago | (#19778977)

Surely this would constitute libel against those who run the site, as soon as it actually happens I hope they put up a nice big donation button on The Bay so I can contribute to a civil suit.

Re:Libel? (2, Informative)

Goaway (82658) | about 7 years ago | (#19779143)

They may or may not have been tracking any actual "child porn", but they are definitely tracking large amounts of pedophile material.

Re:Libel? (5, Insightful)

trewornan (608722) | about 7 years ago | (#19779311)

It reminds me of SCO. You've got child porn on your site but we won't tell you where it is! You'd think it's fairly obvious that (if they believed what they said) the Swedish Police had two proper courses of action:

Ask for Piratebay's help in trying to track down the real source of the material or arrest and prosecute someone at Piratebay for criminal offenses.

That they've done neither means:

a) They know nobody at Piratebay had anything to do with this and they could never successfully prosecute them.

b) They don't really care about tracking down producers and distributors of child porn and are more interested in protecting business interests than children.

Of course the most reasonable explanation for their complete failure to properly carry out their jobs would be - they were lying to begin with.

It seems pretty damning of the Swedish Police whatever way you look at it. It's a shame that this sort of behaviour tarnishes the reputation of all the good officers along with the despicable ones.

Re:Libel? (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 7 years ago | (#19779995)

They may or may not have been tracking any actual "child porn", but they are definitely tracking large amounts of pedophile material.

Pedophile material ? Please tell me what this "pedophile material" might be if it is not child porn ? And please also tell why tracking it is a crime or morally wrong, if it isn't child porn ?

But I gotta admit, "pedophile material" certainly sounds ominous. I guess it is to pedophilia what truthiness is to truth.

Re:Libel? (1)

gsslay (807818) | about 7 years ago | (#19779193)

It's only liable if it isn't true.

Re:Libel? (1)

gsslay (807818) | about 7 years ago | (#19779315)

It's only liable if it isn't true.

Or even libel, dammit!

TPB have been warned about this many times. (4, Informative)

Cosmicalstorm (1124967) | about 7 years ago | (#19778991)

This is a legitimate action to be fair.
I have followed the posting of this material on TPB for a long time, despite many complaints the administrators have done nothing.
The files have been easily accsseible for anyone and have not been hidden away.
Now the police is treating the site like any other site doing the same thing, and suddenly they are throwing a hissy-fit, just because they are The Pirate Bay dosent exempt them from this.
About time they do something about it.
(Sorry for my Swenglish.)

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (5, Funny)

Terrasque (796014) | about 7 years ago | (#19779061)

Yeer sweengleesh ess veery niece, bork bork bork.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779101)

I agree. Not that there's a lot of child porn on the pirate bay, but over the last year or so, there has been an increasing amount of so called "child model" pictures. These are essentially images of kids with clothes on, and thus legal, but the clothing is often revealing and the postures provocative.

And on occasion actual child porn has been posted to, but it often escapes notice. Because who can be bothered to look through a bundle 500 pics of some kid playing dress up.. unless you're a pedo? And the next day there are ten new bundles.

So I can understand why the cops want to do this. I'm not sure they are legally in the clear, but I would like to see those kinds of torrents gone from pirate bay.

It hurts us in the copyright debate, to become associated with pedophiles, regardless of weather the pictures are legal or not.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (1)

trewornan (608722) | about 7 years ago | (#19779369)

Oh please.

Fully clothed kids in "provocative" poses?

I mean if were going to censor every image which could possibly turn on a pedophile we'll have to outlaw pictures of children altogether. You've got to draw the line somewhere and say that what some pervert gets out of a picture is not the defining principle of what should be legal.

What's next . . . outlaw search engines?

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779625)

What laws actually say and how they are applied are often different things in such cases. There has been at least one case of a distasteful-but-legal child model site owner in the US being successfully prosecuted for child porn offences.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (1)

Cosmicalstorm (1124967) | about 7 years ago | (#19779949)

I didnt even touch the subject of the "fully clothed kids". (childmodels ages 5-12 dressed in string bikinis) But I do find them despicable. The Pirate Bay have for a long time provided access to active torrentfiles containing real child porn - nude underaged (sometimes younger than 10 years) girls dancing and posing for the camera. Dont try to make this debate into something it's not about.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (5, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | about 7 years ago | (#19779759)

So I can understand why the cops want to do this. I'm not sure they are legally in the clear, but I would like to see those kinds of torrents gone from pirate bay.
Great. Let's allow governments to censor the internet not based on any illegality, but because "you would like to see those kinds of torrents gone from pirate bay."

The original intention of most child pornography laws was to prevent the sexual abuse of children, not to ban pictures that make people feel creepy.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (1)

oyenstikker (536040) | about 7 years ago | (#19779829)

Sorry if this is wrong, I haven't been following TPB news much, but don't they just host links, not actual content? Is it illegal in Sweden to point somebody to child porn?

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (3, Interesting)

skrolle2 (844387) | about 7 years ago | (#19779223)

Legality has nothing to do with this.

The police maintains a VOLUNTARY blacklist that Swedish ISPs can use if they so choose. Many do, and believe it to be a SERVICE to their customers. Whether or not it is a service or a disservice depends on each customer, and it's bad that it's something many ISPs force on all their customers. It's ultimately up to the police to decide who gets on this blacklist and who doesn't, and I think in this case they abused this power.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (2, Interesting)

catman (1412) | about 7 years ago | (#19779589)

Norway does the same thing. Not that it slows down anyone who really want the stuff, of course,
or really bothers anyone who hates censorship. Trivially easy to get around.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (0, Troll)

b4stard (893180) | about 7 years ago | (#19779595)

You are a fool.

Re:TPB have been warned about this many times. (1)

Threni (635302) | about 7 years ago | (#19779933)

> This is a legitimate action to be fair.

What, shutting down a site which you can't shut down for the real reasons (undue, undesired pressure from the US and big companies which pay loads of money as bribes...sorry, as lobbyists), so witter on about child porn.

Don't get upset when the same `trump card` is pulled out to shut down any other site they find troublesome.

Child abuse is a sickening crime and should be investigated properly and punishment should be severe. Shutting down bit torrent sites which may have the odd child porn picture which can be taken down swiftly if desired is something entirely different.

I feel like sending them and email (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 7 years ago | (#19778997)

...and telling them that they have misspelt pornografic. Probably have to pay somebody to rebuild stop_eng.jpg

Its not clear to my why they use an image there. Suggestions?

Fairly nice code, otherwise.

Porn Filter Blacklist?! (1)

Aquila Deus (798176) | about 7 years ago | (#19778999)

Why don't they just call it "I don't like the sites so you can't visit" list??! Since the sites on list are down forever they can be claimed to have anything evil or whatever!

That word does not mean what you think it means (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779011)

The Swedish Police just can't seem to leave The Pirate Bay at bay.

To have something "at bay" is a term that comes from hunting. It means that the fox (or whatever is being hunted) has been forced into a corner, and has turned to face the "baying" hounds.

So you can't "leave" anything at bay -- being "at bay" is an active state. And FTFA what you meant to say was that Swedish Police can't leave The Pirate Bay alone.

The perils of trying to be clever...

Seriously. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779425)

Why does using the Internet seem to adversely affect one's literacy? On the other hand, I suppose there has always been an abundant supply of fuckwads; perhaps the prevalence of the Internet gives greater exposure to these imbred chimps. Personally, I think we should just line them all up and put them out of our misery. Who's with me?

This isn't necessarily bad. (1, Insightful)

Geurilla (759701) | about 7 years ago | (#19779027)

Were they hosting child porn?

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (5, Interesting)

joe 155 (937621) | about 7 years ago | (#19779069)

"Were they hosting child porn?"

Nope. TPB does not host any illegal content. All they have on there site is what is ostensibly text files saying "this guy (ip address) has this file (file name)"... thats really all there is to it. Nothing illegal under their laws, no matter that file or ip address it actually says. Torrent actually makes it easier to track people who do host child porn because the police can just download the torrent and then leach the porn whilst grabbing the ip addresses of the people who have it. A quick look up and raid later and you have yet another peado in prison.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

Timesprout (579035) | about 7 years ago | (#19779355)

Nope. TPB does not host any illegal content. All they have on there site is what is ostensibly text files saying "this guy (ip address) has this file (file name)".
Would you care to explain this [bayimg.com]

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

M8e (1008767) | about 7 years ago | (#19779427)

Thats not TPB.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

Timesprout (579035) | about 7 years ago | (#19779703)

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779925)

It still isn't TPB, different site.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

Via_Patrino (702161) | about 7 years ago | (#19779715)

That's a torrent specific application with a lot of features, not mere .torrent files, they also run the trackers (not textfiles either). Any of those can be illegal.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

julesh (229690) | about 7 years ago | (#19779989)

Nope. TPB does not host any illegal content.

No. They do, however, act as a middleman, introducing people to each other who have. Generally speaking, legally, this would make them an accessory or accomplice to the crime. A valid defense would be either being completely unaware that it was occurring, or doing everything they could reasonably be expected to do to stop it happening. In this particular case, it would be hard to determine exactly how much effort they should be expected to go to. Their current practice (they claim) is to remove anything they receive a complaint about, but I've seen torrents on their site that have had people complaining in the comments contain kiddy porn. Should they have acted on those comments? Should they even be proactively downloading torrents that sounds as though they may contain illegal content to make sure? Or would this open them up to even further prosecution? At the extreme, should they even run the site if they cannot stop it?

I'm sure the latter isn't the correct approach here. But I'm not sure where on the spectrum the right thing to do does lie. It depends, apart from anything else, on the volume and seriousness of the illegal content that's present, something which I can't really judge.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19780001)

You are absolutely right so we might as well start posting links to kiddie porn since it is not illegal by your standards.

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3651954/young_and_raun chy_teens_01 [thepiratebay.org]
There are so many other links out there looking for simply 'russian child' 'young' or any other obvious terms have not been taken out by admins is absolutely hilarious and than to watch all the comments fill up of "dont download this she is too young"

I like Slashdot because they tell me how to be anonymous on the internet and cannot trace back kiddie porn I download/distribute.
Thanks Slashdot for turning a blind eye.
                    Sincerely,
                                Your local pedo

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

Goaway (82658) | about 7 years ago | (#19779099)

They were tracking torrents of stuff like "underange teen model pics". Maybe legal, maybe not, definitely very, very creepy.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

1u3hr (530656) | about 7 years ago | (#19779487)

They were tracking torrents of stuff like "underange teen model pics". Maybe legal, maybe not, definitely very, very creepy.

But as you said, legal. There are lots of websites with galleries of that kind of stuff. If you want to ban sites because they make you feel uneasy, you're a long way down the slippery slope.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

Goaway (82658) | about 7 years ago | (#19779651)

You obviously have not had to deal with pedophiles. If you allow that stuff on your site, they will notice, and they will start posting more of it. It will creep out your regular users, and it will attract more attention from both pedophiles, who will start pushing the boundaries to see what they can post, and from anti-pedophile activists. If you are fond of your site, you ban it all as fast as you can, or else there will be trouble down the line.

As evidenced by this mess they have gotten themselves into. They really have nobody to blame but themselves, because they had ample opportunity to avoid this situation.

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

QCompson (675963) | about 7 years ago | (#19779711)

They really have nobody to blame but themselves, because they had ample opportunity to avoid this situation.

First off, is there any evidence that they were shut down because of "teen model pics"?

Secondly, are you suggesting that they deserve what they get because they hosted legal but objectionable content? Is it acceptable censorship to deny access not only to sites that host child pornography but also to sites that may attract pedophiles? What is the legal standard here... the creepiness standard?

Re:This isn't necessarily bad. (1)

1u3hr (530656) | about 7 years ago | (#19780009)

As evidenced by this mess they have gotten themselves into. They really have nobody to blame but themselves, because they had ample opportunity to avoid this situation.

Ample opportunity? If we can believe TFA:

UPDATE: A press release from the police (soon published, I got the heads up again from a journalist) states that its not decided that well put The Pirate Bay in the list - if the content is still there next week well put them there. So, come on! What fucking content are you talking about? Still not a single contact attempt from the police.

We need to find a truely safe country (4, Insightful)

jonwil (467024) | about 7 years ago | (#19779049)

What we need is a country that:
1.Has a stable government
2.Doesn't care what the "western world" (i.e. the big US corps) have to say and doesn't enforce "western IP rights"
3.Has no non copyright laws laws that would make a site like PirateBay illegal
4.Can be connected to the internet via a sufficiently fast pipe or pipes
and 5.Has sufficiently advanced infrastructure in other areas like electric power and such that one could host there.

Find such a country (if one even exists) and host all the stuff like DeCSS, DeAACS, UnFairPlay, UnPlaysForSure, Transformers - DVD RIP - XvID, Windows Vista Ultimate - BootISO and other "illegal" crap there.

Russia would have made a good choice until the US forced them to enforce US IP rights in exchange for WTO membership.

Do any such countries exist? What would the "copyright cops" do if they found a "pirate bay" type site in a country that refused to enforce "western IP rights"?

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (3, Funny)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 7 years ago | (#19779075)

Do any such countries exist?

I don't think so but you could create your own. How about calling it the isle of slash? [xkcd.com]

Ignore the concept of country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779123)

It has to be a transnational entity, no normal country would work like that. Think... something organizationally like a corporation. Or a religious movement. But all connected via Internet. Maybe it would be possible to start a virtual country?

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (1)

Goaway (82658) | about 7 years ago | (#19779131)

In this case, you also need "6. Doesn't care about pedophiles".

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (1)

PhxBlue (562201) | about 7 years ago | (#19779157)

Iran seems to fit your bill nicely. I don't know what their stance is on copyright laws, but they might host a site like this just to poke a stick in the U.S.' eye.

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (1)

KiloByte (825081) | about 7 years ago | (#19779259)

Except their pipe sucks ass.

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (3, Informative)

gsslay (807818) | about 7 years ago | (#19779289)

Interesting idea. So you want a country to 'hold the stash' for you. One that doesn't care what the 'western world' says, but really wants to help the oppressed millions of the western world save money on DVDs. And preferably some place you don't have to live yourself, cos it would be a bit of a drag living in some backwater so isolated from world trade. Even it did have things like electric power and stuff.

Good luck with that.

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779313)

Maybe I'm just getting old, but "what we really need" is not the freedom to download whatever we want because we deserve it...

How about starting (or refreshing) with people that are free-er of corruption? Seems to me that it's more of a social thing than a technical one -- "whatever new technology comes along, well, we can all exploit that for our own benefit, rather than for the global good".

Seems to me that if that problem gets solved, it has the potential to fix IP issues and other little things -- like hunger and poverty.

Also seems that this will never happen, and that I'm a cynic...

Just my two cents.

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779699)

"Maybe I'm just getting old, but "what we really need" is not the freedom to download whatever we want because we deserve it..."

Maybe I'm just getting old, but "what we really need" is not the freedom to download whatever we want because we think we deserve it...

There, fixed that for you :)

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (2, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | about 7 years ago | (#19779349)

Do any such countries exist?

Probably not anymore.

What would the "copyright cops" do if they found a "pirate bay" type site in a country that refused to enforce "western IP rights"?

Send ICBMs.

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (1)

iZC (1063372) | about 7 years ago | (#19779627)

Iran fit all of the above.

Re:We need to find a truely safe country (3, Interesting)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 7 years ago | (#19779721)

I do not have any problem at all with the copyright laws which prohibit the redistribution of copyrighted works. This is well within reason, that an author in order to support themselves has a right to make some money off their work. I do think the penalties have been much to harsh however, for copyright infringement. Fining persons tens of thousands of dollars who live paycheck by paycheck, something they could not do without driving themselves into bankruptcy or poverty, especially for what is a fairly non-violent and minor crime, really is going overboard. I would much rather see a few hours of community service used instead.

I also against however DRM, and DMCA, and think the DRM anti-circumvention laws are deeply unethical and go against many of the principles of a free society, by banning the distribution of intellectual works (software) oneself has produced and owns the copyright on. Media companies have demanded hardware and software to include restrictions whereby a consumer cannot even make a copy for personal archival purposes of a work that they legally purchased, including perhaps transferring it to a different device that they own. All of this should be completely legal, a person should be able to make as many copies of something they purchase for their own personal use as they wish, including transferring a video from their DVD to a VCR, or from their computer to ipod for instance. Obviously these were overintrusive restrictions which took away some very natural rights people should have to be able to personally use things they have purchased. It is understandable that there has been work to work around this technology, if only so people could truly legitimately use the videos and other material that THEY bought on their own equipment in their own homes, such as playing a DVD on their Linux machine or making some extra copies of the DVD in case one got scratched. It was a further outrage that this very understandable workarounds which really wasnt stealing anything from anyone, just allowed people to use what they bought for their own personal uses, was made illegal by DMCA. The DMCA was a further outrage since, I believe it contradicts the first amendment by making it illegal to distribute software works oneself has produced. It is a lot like saying, you are not allowed to distribute you wrote books which have certain plot lines. In case, what should be the completely legal distribution of software, which truly violates no ones copyright, and simply allows consumers to use the DVD and other items for their own personal use on their own software and hardware, illegal. DeCSS and other such software have completely legitimate and legal uses, and for most that is the only use they have, so they can easily archive and store, and view DVDs on their system, for their own person al use and convenience. they are not distributing them with anyone else.

We already have laws to protect copyright holders, if a copyrighted work is being resold in an illegal manner. The DRM nonsense and the DMCA goes quite a bit too far and is rather unneeded given copyright law already provides the tools necessary to prevent illegal redistribution among different parties of copyrighted material.

I have heard the point made that the recording companies due to take an awfully large cut off the music sales from artists, to the point where artists make very little off the sale. if this is true then perhaps there should be more independant labels, and the internet has made setting up such a company and distributing and advertising music even eisier to do than it was previously. Indeed, we need to support Net Netreuality so ISPs could not basically turn the internet into an online-version of MTV, or a modern reincarnation of AOL, where content from major corporations would be given preferential treatment, those who can pay not only for interconnectivity into their own office, but also for that of all of the hundreds of end user ISPs. This is very dangerous and threatens to destroy the internet as a medium where anyone can publish anything, and access anything from anywhere, and key to this is requiring that ISPs, being truly common carriers and who should be under common carrier laws, must carry data over their networks without modification, or discriminatory throttling or limiting of speech of certain data being conveyed over their networks. This is important in preventing the balkanisation of the internet into incompatable islands, and locking out content providers, through having to pay for end users access, as well as their own. This erodes away the important seperation of end-user internet access and the content provider internet access, which makes it eisier for both end users and content providers to publish and access data, by making assuring their is a broad and diverse range of content on the internet, rather than a monoculture controlled by a few large entities. With content providers having to pay for end users internet access, providing content becomes much more difficult and access to the internet to all except the most largest companies becomes impossible, and at the same time, the utility of the internet and the diversity of the information that can be accessed by the end user diminishes. It also denies free speech to everyone, making it so that the only ones who can truly have free speech and make themselves accessible to everyone on the internet are those with a massive amount of money. The arguments of the ISPs against Network Neutrality truly make little sense, since already the end user is paying the ISPs for their access to the internet at their end, and the content providers are also paying their ISPs for access as well.

Finally (5, Funny)

mhannibal (1121487) | about 7 years ago | (#19779059)

Finally an end to illegally distributed child porn - finally the copyright holders who created the movies will receive the monetary compensation they are entitled to. Oh wait...

Here's how it works. (5, Informative)

skrolle2 (844387) | about 7 years ago | (#19779085)

There's no Great Firewall of Sweden, it's not gonna be impossible to reach the site from within Sweden, it's just a DNS blacklist. The police maintains a small list of sites that they think/know traffics in child pornography. All Swedish ISPs can subscribe to this list and add it to their DNS servers so that any of their customers that tries to lookup these addresses will instead get the IP to a webserver that informs you that the site you wanted is bad.

If you use an ISP that does not subscribe to this list, nothing happens. If you don't use the DNS that your ISP supplies, nothing happens. You're not blocked from the content, your DNS lookup is hijacked in some sort or attempt at policing the internets.

It's kinda hard to say that the idea was bad from the start, but I can't say it was very good either. However, what we have now is a perfect example of the slippery slope in action. There is a censoring system in place, and someone decides to use it for their own agenda. Annoying, but in the end everyone that cares is just gonna switch away from their ISP's DNS servers to open alternatives such as http://www.opendns.com/ [opendns.com]

Re:Here's how it works. (2, Interesting)

OgGreeb (35588) | about 7 years ago | (#19779609)

Which is a swell solution until the Swedish authorities tighten the screws by blocking alternate DNS resolution, either blocking out-of-band port 53 access or just blocking the specific IP addresses of known alternate DNS resolvers. Or making it illegal to use non-sanctioned domain name servers. The Internet will route around this, and they will combat it, and the pressure will build. Which is why using technical means to resolve a social problem will always be a stop-gap, flawed and frustrating process.

sealand (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779133)

maybe it is time the bay moved to sealand? and i am not a coward...i just dont like creating a gd username everytime i want to post to random message boards!

It works like this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779195)

1. Plant evidence
2. Blow the whistle
3. Profit!!!
4. Use profit to snort coke in SonyBMG executive boardroom while watching pictures of nude little boys

Boiling frog, etc. (2, Insightful)

Eudial (590661) | about 7 years ago | (#19779335)

In the words of Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Despicable police corruption (3, Insightful)

Raven737 (1084619) | about 7 years ago | (#19779407)

The reason this is wrong is becuase they know full well that TPB never had any child porn and never will!
It's not about downloading copyrighted works either, it's only about payback for not being able to find any evidence
of any wrong doing and the embarrassments this has caused them.
Of course this was done with the 'help' of the BSA, MPAA and RIAA, i'm just waiting for them to
brag how thier 'influence' has 'saved the world' (and the children, of course) again.

This even goes beyond just despicable corruption and right into treason,
forsaking their own laws and people for some foreign cooperate payoff.

Well time to mail: childabuse@rkp.police.se [mailto] and tell them
how little we like corrupt, treasonous, scumm of the earth police abusing their power. :)

Re:Despicable police corruption (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779527)

Police corruption? Payback for embarrassment? You're fucking deluded, seriously. If you can rationalise away what TPB are doing with ridiculous arguments like that, I have to wonder what behaviour of your own you rationalise away in a similar manner. Grow the fuck up.

Bending the laws to achieve censorship (4, Insightful)

Iloinen Lohikrme (880747) | about 7 years ago | (#19779639)

This is the perfect example on why governments should never be given a blank cheque: they will eventually use it wrong.

Here in Finland we have the same system in place as the Swedish. The police keeps a secret list of sites and their ip-addresses that they claim serve child pornography, and the ISPs will use this list to filter these sites in voluntary basis. I would say in this case voluntary means "voluntary" as all ISPs are using the list to filter out content, and all though there is no law regarding this list and it's usage, it's still a form of government inflicted censorship as when this subject was in conversation, basically everybody that was against this system were pointed out to be supporters of child pornographers. In my mind the system in place in both Finland and Sweden are illegal and they are against our constitutions. It's just to bad that nobody has had the stand up and but the system and it's sponsor in court.

I think that the whole system is wrong, and definitely think putting TPB to it is very wrong, but then again if the Swedish police could be so stupid as to but TPB to the list, there would be some strong case for TPB to take the matter in to a court on basis of illegal government censorship. Even thought the government is not breaking the letters of the constitution they definitely are breaking the spirit of the constitution and the freedoms it grants.

Re:Bending the laws to achieve censorship (1)

ral315 (741081) | about 7 years ago | (#19779789)

Another poster mentioned, and I'm not sure if it's true, that TPB had an uncensored image service that may have been the culprit. If that's true, and that service was hosting child porn, and TPB wasn't doing anything about it, then it might be an appropriate move.

mod` down (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19779847)

Humanity thanks you, Sweden and China! (5, Informative)

momofuku (1124995) | about 7 years ago | (#19779873)

One of the most popular sites in Sweden - about to be censured - and this without the case being tried in court.

Regardless of what you think about TPB, this is just state-mandated censorship.
They couldn't shut down TPB with legal means so they decided just to try and shut it down anyway.
Everything on TBP is also reachable from google. So assuming this isn't politically motivated, google is next. Right?

But the headline is inaccurate: Access to TPB won't actually be blocked, thepiratebay.org just won't resolve to TPB's servers, instead you will be routed to some other site. And only if your ISP is one of the 15 that has agreed to do this (although these ISPs share between themeselves the majority of the swedish broadband-market).

Using a different dns-server or simply adding
        83.140.176.146 www.thepiratebay.org
        83.140.176.146 thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.227 tracker.thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.228 a.tracker.thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.228 vip.tracker.thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.228 tv.tracker.thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.227 tpb.tracker.thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.68 open.tracker.thepiratebay.org
        83.140.176.156 torrents.thepiratebay.org
        83.140.176.148 static.thepiratebay.org
        83.140.176.149 rss.thepiratebay.org
        83.140.176.150 upload.thepiratebay.org
        85.17.40.68 tracker.prq.to
        85.17.40.227 tpb.tracker.prq.to
        85.17.40.228 tv.tracker.prq.to
        83.140.176.146 trackerwww.prq.to
        83.140.176.146 www.thepiratebay.se
        83.140.176.146 thepiratebay.se
        83.140.176.156 torrents.thepiratebay.se
        83.140.176.148 static.thepiratebay.se
        83.140.176.149 rss.thepiratebay.se
        83.140.176.150 upload.thepiratebay.se
to /etc/hosts will circumvent this, which makes this "block" kind of lame.

Thank you Sweden and China! Safe at last! /Children of the world

Well (4, Insightful)

suv4x4 (956391) | about 7 years ago | (#19779941)

I'm surprised it has been going on for so long. I actually expected the appropriate copyright sedish las to be patched in sync with most other countries, thus outlawing the act of hosting bittorents to illegal content (not direct hosting only).

But this is plain wrong. And smart at the same time. You see, people are predisposed to think more about some situations, and reply automatically to other situations. What the powers-that-be want here, is automatic answers, and no discussion.

Let's try:

Police: "Is hosting links to copyrighted content illegal"?
Public: "Well hmmm... that's something to think about. The border definitely isn't clear. We can discuss it"

Police: "Is sharing your personal collection of CD-s with your online friends illegal?"
Public: "Well, sharing has always been going on, even before the Internet was round. We did mix-tapes etc. Of course the scale of it demands a discussion.. The border isn't clear again.. "

Police: "They host CHILD PORN. We should block them"
Public: "OH YEAH! Definitely, block 'em right now! Monsters!"
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