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Fewer People Copy DVDs Than Once Thought

Zonk posted about 7 years ago | from the except-among-our-users dept.

Media 333

MasterOfMagic writes "According to a survey reported at the NY Times, very few people actually have and use DVD copying software. The survey reports that only 1.5 percent of computer users have DVD copying software, and of those 1.5%, 2/3rds of them don't even use it. The survey also revealed that users were more likely to download DVDs than copy DVDs that they borrowed or rented, and that about half of all downloaded DVDs are pornography. According to the survey's lead analyst, 'With music, part of the appeal is sharing your own playlists and compilations with your friends ... I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music.'"

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333 comments

You Just Wait (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19841993)

With music, part of the appeal is sharing your own playlists and compilations with your friends ... I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music.
I don't know if that's true. You just wait, once the video Zune comes out, you'll rather sit in silence on the subway than see what people are squirting at you.

I might be sarnath'd here, but... (1)

Eco-Mono (978899) | about 7 years ago | (#19842009)

Doesn't the Zune *already* have video squirt support? And if not, what in tarnation was Microsoft thinking?

WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842797)

Fewer People Copy DVDs Than Once Thought


Is this what Slashdot has come to? PLEASE. Next topic up, "Some people think that there are more dolphins than whales in the ocean"

This site is run by morons.

Really not surprised (5, Insightful)

wawannem (591061) | about 7 years ago | (#19842005)

To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again. If a friend has a movie I'd like to watch, I'll borrow the DVD, watch the movie and give it back to him. Even the movies I like, I can't see myself copying... Now my kids on the other hand... Put it this way, if I have to watch Monsters, Inc. one more time!!!!

Re:Really not surprised (4, Insightful)

Captain Splendid (673276) | about 7 years ago | (#19842045)

Well, that and DVDs, unlike CDs, are priced decently. You can do a lot of DVD buying and still not go over $10 a piece, whereas you need to shell out $20 easy for a CD. can't believe the RIAA hasn't figured this out yet.

Re:Really not surprised (5, Insightful)

LordNimon (85072) | about 7 years ago | (#19842205)

The cost of a movie is frequently paid (at least, for the most part) when the movie is in the theaters. By the time the DVD is made, there's already been significant revenue to cover the costs. With a CD, however, the only revenue is generated only once the CD is sold.

Re:Really not surprised (4, Insightful)

Fallingcow (213461) | about 7 years ago | (#19842291)

Uhh.....

Concerts?

Licensing for any and all commercial uses of any tracks from the disc?

CD sales are far from the only revenues generated by the music on a given CD, especially if it's at all popular.

Yeah, some artists don't do concerts and aren't popular enough to get any licensing deals, but I don't think that very many of them are with the RIAA anyway...

Re:Really not surprised (4, Interesting)

Ironsides (739422) | about 7 years ago | (#19842427)

For most cds (By volume sold, aka pop crap), the labels get money from the discs, not from shows the artists sing (so far as I know). So, taking that into account, the artist doesn't care much about the CDs, just he concerts. The labels care about the CDs, not the concerts, as they don't get money from them, except as extra CDs sold. Then there is the radio revenue, but I don't think that helps much.

Off hand, I think part of the high cost of music is the shotgun approach labels use. Movie studios tend to be more selective, given the high cost of one now a days.

Re:Really not surprised (0, Offtopic)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 7 years ago | (#19842399)

I think we're missing the point. Why should I use a DVD copying application when the busy beavers in the many "Krews" are doing such a great job of ripping the DVDs and posting them on my favorite trackers? Diamond and Proper come to mind as two of the best.

Re:Really not surprised (3, Informative)

jZnat (793348) | about 7 years ago | (#19842761)

You do know that proper isn't a release group, right? It's a tag for a release of something that was already released by another group, but the group doing the proper feels that the original release wasn't up to par with their standards. To prevent clutter, the first group to release a movie/whatever is the one that gets credit for it, but if it's a shitty release, someone else can step up and take credit for the movie with a proper release.

Re:Really not surprised (4, Insightful)

SerpentMage (13390) | about 7 years ago | (#19842367)

You hit it right on the head here. It is amazing a movie that typically costs X million to produce costs about as much as a CD. Somewhere, somebody is not understanding the economics of this. I personally have a huge DVD collection and do watch films multiple times. And I even buy TV Series on DVD, especially since many series missing one or two episodes on TV means you loose a thread. And the last reason why I buy DVD's is because burning or copying a DVD takes AGES! To get a similar quality you have a huge honken file.

Re:Really not surprised (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about 7 years ago | (#19842465)

Exactly! Although I usually buy my DVD's at the bargain bin or used. Except for Small guy TV shows like "robot chicken" or "Venture Brothers" or indie films I like, those I pay full price and where I can get them knowing the profit goes to the guys that made it.

New releases are usually netflixed, watched, then returned never to be rented or even desired to be watched again. Some movies do get purchased and watched over and over. I have every Mel-brooks film made, Yes I even own "Twelve Chairs" the incredibly rare and universally panned as horrid film of his. But then I own every film ever released by http://www.troma.com/ [troma.com] as well. Some are quite bad, but enjoyable after a night of binge drinking or if I'm in a weird mood.

Re:Really not surprised (1)

fireman sam (662213) | about 7 years ago | (#19842691)

Melvin? Is that you?

Re:Really not surprised (1)

jameskojiro (705701) | about 7 years ago | (#19842757)

W00T Go Team Venture!!!!

I should be seeing my season 2 DVD for VB in a few days, going to have a marathon of VB and have a good time!

Re:Really not surprised (2, Interesting)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | about 7 years ago | (#19842697)

The only difference I can see is that the record industry is based on business practices that date back to the early 1900s whereas the movie business has only been selling to consumers since the 1980s. Probably a matter of historical baggage and bloated payment schemes that create the huge price difference.

Talibangelists Invade U.S. Senate: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842199)

Alert Level: Double Triple Jalapeno

Read about the Talibangelists [tpmcafe.com]
.

Re:Talibangelists Invade U.S. Senate: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842405)

Alert Level: Double Triple Jalapeno

Yes but do you want fries with that?

My Choice Of Fries (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842507)

Freedom Fries [whitehouse.org]

Re:Really not surprised (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 7 years ago | (#19842321)

I would agree. Unlike music which we like to listen to all the time movies really get to us adults after a while. Movies contain a story with plot once you know the plot and have seen it each aditional time you usually enjoy it less, unless you wait a good period of time where it is interesting again. With Services like Netflix and Blockbuster ALL in one, it really makes Coping the Movies, storing it paying for blank dvds not really worth it. Because you can just add it to your queue every few months or years.

Re:Really not surprised (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | about 7 years ago | (#19842403)

To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again. If a friend has a movie I'd like to watch, I'll borrow the DVD, watch the movie and give it back to him. Even the movies I like, I can't see myself copying...
But seeing as you have kids (that like to watch Monsters, Inc. repeatedly), I'd expect your friend to loan you a burned copy of the DVD rather than his original.

The story though seems focused on burning DVDs rather than ripping them. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more ripping than burning. As hard drives get bigger, there's less reason to burn to DVD and more to keeping it on a video server. More hard data on this particular research would be nice.

Meanwhile the editions you find for rent at Blockbuster and Netflix are increasingly not the same ones you can buy. The feature may be the same content, but the bitrate may be lower, there'll be fewer extras if any, and more advertisements (and less likely to be skippable) included on the disk.

Personally, I'm more likely to burn stuff recorded from broadcast TV, especially as non-rental DVD releases of TV shows are having more and more omissions. I'm not just talking music rights like with WKRP in Cincinnati or Quantum Leap (Georgia On My Mind), but signature footage like the alien hand over the Earth in the War of the Worlds TV series, the missing recaps of the previous episode from Odyssey 5, and the almost universal omission of trailers for the next episode (The X-Files being an exception--I hate to think what they'll do to Max Headroom). Only animated fare even consider retaining commercial bumpers (Transformers and Robotech for examples).

Some shows on DVD are even the versions cut for more ad space in syndication, and some movies are released as widescreen and are still not as wide as their theatrical release (Colossus: The Forbin Project, Head Office).

I have a large paid-for DVD library, mainly because DVDs do go out of print and out of rental circulation, sometimes due to loss of rights (MST3K Vol. 10).

Re:Really not surprised (1)

Ironsides (739422) | about 7 years ago | (#19842505)

The story though seems focused on burning DVDs rather than ripping them. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more ripping than burning. As hard drives get bigger, there's less reason to burn to DVD and more to keeping it on a video server. More hard data on this particular research would be nice. Cost is still an issue. I have a decently large DVD collection (550+ disks). At an average of 4GB (probably low), per disk, that comes out to 2.2TB (rounding here, people). That's an expensive video server, so I doubt people are just ripping DVDs. They might be shrinking them with DivX, that would help with the space a lot.

Re:Really not surprised (3, Insightful)

Wavicle (181176) | about 7 years ago | (#19842721)

Well, kids are a great example of why I would like to START ripping DVDs.

I can tune out the 421st showing of Dumbo. But what I have trouble tuning out are the 10 minutes of advertisements that Disney tacks on IN FRONT of Dumbo. There is a 5 second window when I can press a button on the remote to skip the advertisements, if I miss it, I must either watch the advertisements, or eject/inject the disc again and sit through the FBI warning (doesn't hold on all players, one of my players can jump to the root menu after the advertisements start).

I would really like to rip a copy of Dumbo that starts playing as soon as I put the disc in, removes macrovision and encryption. I'd also like to transcode it to fit on a 4.7GB DVD. Yes, I know it sounds like I want to pirate the movie, but really I just want control over how I watch a movie I legally paid for! (okay, that's a little white lie, my mother bought the kids the Dumbo movie.)

Can anybody point me at a utility (Linux or Windows, I have both) that does this without me having to baby step it through 5 different utilities and a hundred command line options?

Disney can go suck DUMBO nuts (2, Funny)

jameskojiro (705701) | about 7 years ago | (#19842825)

They Advertise heavily infront of their DVDs and give you no bleeding option to skip the damn commercials for their next direct to video sequal "Alladin 4: The Jihad against Jafar" or "Cinderella XI: Das Slipper". When will it bleeding well end? Plus 1/2 the stuipid disc is nothing but advertisements, so that the movie has shitty quality and Dumbo is a pixelated mess.

Somone should shoot the mouse and put him out of his misey.

Re:Really not surprised (1)

Penguinshit (591885) | about 7 years ago | (#19842731)

To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again.
Casablanca [imdb.com] . Nuff said.

Oh so many... (1)

gzerphey (1006177) | about 7 years ago | (#19842007)

So many jokes... so little time. Here is your queue people. Sharing porn playlist jokes here in 3... 2... 1...

They also thought... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842015)

...this wasn't going to hit $1 http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SPZI.PK [yahoo.com]

Sharing porn... (1)

Philotic (957984) | about 7 years ago | (#19842019)

...reminds me of this thing men and women used to do together, before the internet, before the dark times.

Re:Sharing porn... (5, Funny)

LighterShadeOfBlack (1011407) | about 7 years ago | (#19842279)

...reminds me of this thing men and women used to do together, before the internet, before the dark times.
Sit around and talk about how they wished there was some way they could share all their porn?

Oops (5, Funny)

Imexius (967514) | about 7 years ago | (#19842023)

mencoder dvd:// -ovc lavc -oac mp3lame -o thematrix.avi

Oops wrong window

Re:Oops (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842461)

Ick, lavc is terrible.

Anyway, I don't even bother encoding... mplayer dvd://1 -dumpstream -dumpfile moviename.vob

Re:Oops (2, Informative)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | about 7 years ago | (#19842553)

dd if=/dev/hdx of=moviename.iso bs=1024

is much quicker.

That's because it is very hard to do... (4, Insightful)

maillemaker (924053) | about 7 years ago | (#19842039)

I played around with at least 6 different free applications that purported to, in conjunction with DeCSS, rip and copy DVDs, so as to archive DVDs I already own in my collection, and safegaurd the originals from getting scratched.

I can't even get the damn ripping part to work. Without fail, either the video is crappy or the audio is out of sync with the video.

Then we get to the burning part. It seems a crap-shoot as to whether or not the finished burn will actually work. DVDs I've burned seem to play OK in my new $30 Walmart DVD player, but pixellate and stop playing on my 1998 vintage RCA DVD player.

So I quit trying. I mean it takes hours to rip and burn, and in the end it was a crap-shoot as to whether or not the DVD would actually play.

It's easier to download and play off of the hard drive.

Re:That's because it is very hard to do... (4, Informative)

Major Blud (789630) | about 7 years ago | (#19842171)

I've tried many different methods by DVDShrink is by far the easiest. Usually only takes about an hour and I rarely have compatibility problems. http://www.dvdshrink.org/ [dvdshrink.org] [Disclaimer: I do not work for DVDShrink or condone copying of copyrighted material]

Re:That's because it is very hard to do... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842191)

Umm..... I don't understand how it can be this hard.
Rip to an image, burn to a disc.
You shouldn't have video/audio sync issues at all. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong.

Re:That's because it is very hard to do... (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | about 7 years ago | (#19842223)

I don't think that there are any easy-to-use free ripping/encoding programs on Windows anymore.

DVDrip on Linux is the only free one that I find usable. No Windows port, unfortunately.

Re:That's because it is very hard to do... (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#19842737)

Thoggen and Acidrip are much easier than DVDrip.

Re:That's because it is very hard to do... (1)

J3M (546439) | about 7 years ago | (#19842243)

On Windows, DVDFab HD Decrypter [dvdfab.com] does a great job of ripping. Then use your favorite DVD burning software.

Now that I'm on Ubuntu, I use k9copy to rip and K3B to burn. Works wonderfully.

I can't help you with your old DVD player though. You'll have to play them on your cheap player.

Nah, not so hard, try it this way... (3, Informative)

TwoPumpChump (767573) | about 7 years ago | (#19842423)

On Windows, DVDFab HD Decrypter [dvdfab.com] does a great job of ripping. Then use your favorite DVD burning software.


In a nutshell, this is how I do things:

1) Rent from Netflix [netflix.com] , 2 at a time unlimited (all issues of throttling [foxnews.com] aside)
2) Rip discs as they arrive with DVDFab HD Decrypter [dvdfab.com]
3) Compress with DVDShrink [mrbass.org] (I still have a single-layer burner and besides, the disks are cheaper - I just don't copy the extras or the French audio track, etc., so as to minimize compression of the main movie. This also strips off the ghey previews and FBI warnings. Snatch!) I have used both DVD-R and DVD+R; personal preference is DVD+R. YMMV.
4) Burn result with Nero. Keep files on harddrive for awhile until I'm sure the burnt disk is ok.
5) Whisk Netflix movies back next day. Watch burnt movie at my leisure. ~~

Re:Nah, not so hard, try it this way... (1)

J3M (546439) | about 7 years ago | (#19842617)

Yup, almost exactly what I do (I forgot to mention DVDShrink). I also found DVD+R better, but only because my burner is slightly faster with +R. Oh, I did find that Taiyo Yuden discs seemed to give me the best results too.

I also used some of the guides at doom9.net [doom9.net] to fine tune DVDShrink.

HandBrake. (4, Informative)

Kadin2048 (468275) | about 7 years ago | (#19842283)

That's all I'm going to say.

(Yeah, it's Mac and Linux only, and I think the Linux version doesn't have a GUI yet. Thankfully, I don't care.)

Actually copying a DVD, as in making a disc from another disc, seems like a waste of time. It's like copying CDs. Who uses CDs anymore? The price of storage is low enough that I can have my entire movie and video collection on my MythTV box, ready to watch with just a few presses of the remote.

(And yeah, I know MythTV will supposedly rip DVDs itself, but I've never gotten it to work correctly. Everything that has to do with DVDs is flaky in MythTV, IMO, probably because it's hard to even discuss anything about encrypted playback without people wigging out because of the DMCA. It's easier to just encode them on a Mac and then shove them onto the Myth box over the network.)

Re:HandBrake. (1)

Otter Escaping North (945051) | about 7 years ago | (#19842387)

I'm a Handbrake user as well. I haven't seen an easier application to use in terms of ripping and encoding -- although the DVD manufacturers (esp. Sony) are starting to catch up with it, and Handbrake is trying not to be shut down. Still, All my movies and TV shows are archived onto my file-server in the basement, and served up through my Mac mini, using FrontRow.

I almost never watch a DVD live any more, and my player is starting to go on the fritz - not sure I'll bother replacing it.

Re:HandBrake. (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | about 7 years ago | (#19842551)

Interesting. I hadn't visited the HandBrake site in a while, because I've just been pretty happy with the old version I've been using for a while to feed the Mythbox, but apparently they seem to be doing well.

Hopefully if Sony and its cronies get out the DMCA-hammer, they'll be able to locate to someplace friendlier. (The VideoLAN people seem to be based out of France and don't get a lot of crap, and they maintain libdvdcss, which is sort of the key to every piece of DVD-related free software.) It's a pity, because I've probably bought more (admittedly, bargain bin) DVDs as a result of my HandBrake+MythTV setup than I ever did previously. But nobody has ever accused the media conglomerates of having a surplus of foresight or common sense.

Also, they supposedly have a Windows GUI for the new version. I'm not entirely pleased about this (I'm going to be annoyed if they get flooded with Windows script kiddies and the development focus moves there from Mac/Linux), but it's worth noting, I suppose. And the Linux CLI version seems to have been brought up to speed with the other versions, although there are other Linux DVD rippers that might be more attractive to people on that platform.

And it seems to finally have surround-sound and H.264 High Profile support. (Though why you'd need High Profile for a DVD rip I'm not sure, but hey, the more options the merrier.) And presets, which will be nice.

It can be very easy. (4, Informative)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | about 7 years ago | (#19842527)

I can't even get the damn ripping part to work.

In 99% of cases, this is absurdly easy. In fact, your OS already comes with all the tools you need to rip, and VLC will play the ripped image.

If you're on Windows, just right-click your DVD drive, "open", and copy all the files to a folder on your hard drive. If you're on OS X, open Disk Utility, click your DVD drive, and choose "Create Image", and choose a CD image format (not HFS or anything, and not compressed). If you're on Linux, "cp /dev/dvd foo.img" will create an image called "foo.img".

If these work at all, they will generally give you a disk image that can be used in place of the original disk. On Linux, just configure your favorite DVD player to use that file as the DVD device. For recent versions of VLC, you can simply open a dvd:// URL that points to the file (or folder, using the Windows way) -- so you do dvd:///home/somebody/movies/matrix.img or something. On Windows, probably dvd://c:/some/where... In any case, the easy way is to browse for it as if opening a file, then change file:// to dvd://

Basically, if VLC can play the DVD in the first place, than your OS (I don't care what OS it is) already comes with the tools to rip an image that will play with VLC. The downside is it does no compression and no decryption, so you can't burn this image directly, and it probably uses about 8 gigs of hard disk space.

The process of re-encoding is a bit longer, but not incredibly hard to get right. And I've discovered that ripping is really fast, encoding will take all night, but downloading in the same quality might take a few days -- and also, both ripping and encoding can be put on a low priority and run while I do other things, but downloading invariably lags me.

The hardest part is authoring an actual DVD that will play on an off-the-shelf player, but a video card with TV out is pretty cheap, and the best screen I own is my monitor anyway. So I usually just watch it once, and if I really want to keep it, I encode to h.264, sometimes turn the ac3 into Vorbis (and sometimes not, depends what the original quality is like and how much I like that movie), then combine that with the subtitles and chapters ripped straight off the DVD image. I end up with an mkv that's around 300-500 megs. If I find myself doing this enough, I'll probably write a script to automate it, but I've discovered a process that never seems to get the AV out of sync.

In any case, I don't bother unless I have the original DVD. But it's nice, I mean, downloading takes days and days, and there's the possibility of being caught and fined (or worse). Ripping means I just borrow the DVD from roommates for about 15 mins, then give it back, and the only way I get caught is if they seize my computer.

Re:That's because it is very hard to do... (1)

gknoy (899301) | about 7 years ago | (#19842555)

I can't even get the damn ripping part to work. Without fail, either the video is crappy or the audio is out of sync with the video.

This reminds me of something that my wedding videographer told me about video transfer. Basically, try ripping from a firewire device to another firewire device. When he would try to transfer from (a Firewire) video camera to an (IDE) internal hard drive, the sound would become desynched at some point. The way he solved it was by going from camera directly to a firewire external drive.

I haven't tried such a thing, but it sounded credible ... =) Not sure how well that would work for a ripping process, though.

Odd purchasing habits... (5, Funny)

GWLlosa (800011) | about 7 years ago | (#19842041)

Does this mean that the guy I saw at the Best Buy buying 3 spindles of blank DVDs was, in fact, about to record 160 discs full of porn? I'd think he'd get carpal tunnel....



From changing out the discs repeatedly, of course.

Re:Odd purchasing habits... (3, Funny)

C0rinthian (770164) | about 7 years ago | (#19842107)

Yes. But around these parts we call it 'archiving data'.

Re:Odd purchasing habits... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842475)

A lot of data in just a few cubic centimetres.

Re:Odd purchasing habits... (1)

phedre (1125345) | about 7 years ago | (#19842515)

He probably has a massive porn collection to archive.

I think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842615)

I think that YOU are the one watching lots of porn because there is obviously less blood available in your head at the moment because 160 isn't divisible by 3. Three spindles of DVD's couldn't come out to 160 discs.... oh wait... I assumed all spindles had the same quantity.... o well. I'm gonna stop babbling now anyway, it's hard to type with one hand :-)

Re:Odd purchasing habits... (1)

miscz (888242) | about 7 years ago | (#19842701)

That's for games and porn. As previous posters noticed, little people want to watch movies many times, and on another note, they'll be more likely to download CD-sized DVD-rips. On the other hand if you're a gamer you'll going to need those DVDs quite often and given the fact that average game fills 4.7GB DVD you're going to run out of space pretty soon.

Well yeah... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842053)

That's because Axxo does such a good job!

Sharing music (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842055)

He who says we don't share our porn like we share our music is wrong. I share all my music with the following warning.

Make sure your wife's outta the room by 0:36:00, that's when the horse arrives.

Re:Sharing music (2, Funny)

dcellis (632922) | about 7 years ago | (#19842261)

horse? Please - don't ever share your porn with me.

Re:Sharing music (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842329)

horse? Please - don't ever share your porn with me.
Okay, but would you like to borrow some 'music'?

Survey says... (4, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | about 7 years ago | (#19842087)

...about half of all downloaded DVDs are pornography.

And the other half are liars.

1.5 percent? (1)

yanos (633109) | about 7 years ago | (#19842095)

The survey reports that only 1.5 percent of computer users have DVD copying software

What? If you have a computer with a dvd writer, surely you also have something like nero installed. Maybe I've been away from windows for too long, but I don't remember seeing some form of protection to do a 1:1 copy of a DVD. Thinking about it, that would have made sense. Is there such a protection in commercial burning application?

Re:1.5 percent? (4, Funny)

night_flyer (453866) | about 7 years ago | (#19842133)

maybe only 1.5% realize they have DVD burning software installed for their cup holder

Re:1.5 percent? (2, Interesting)

flitty (981864) | about 7 years ago | (#19842175)

1.5% of people with computers burn dvd's huh... Somone do the math and see if (Netflix Subscribers):(1.5% of people with computers) is a 1:1 ratio.

Re:1.5 percent? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842177)

Exactly. I have a set of tools to do DVD rips, but that's so I can watch movies on my ChiPod, not so I can infringe copyright by distributing it to other people.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

Constantine XVI (880691) | about 7 years ago | (#19842189)

Just this little thing called the Content Scrambling System. Most standard (ex: nero) burning apps have no measures to overcome CSS. Not to mention that a lot of commercial DVDs are dual-layer, and not all blanks are, so some compression is done to make it fit.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

yanos (633109) | about 7 years ago | (#19842381)

Well yeah, I understand that the content of the dvd is scrambled. But if you do a bit to bit copy, like most burner apps let you do, you don't care if you can't make sense of those bit. You just copy them to the DVD+/-R, in their scrambled state. The result is a disc that is identical to the original, so it will play just fine in a normal DVD player. I'm pretty sure that I'm still missing something though...

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

Constantine XVI (880691) | about 7 years ago | (#19842429)

Yup, the un-descrambled copies are completely unreadable. I can't fully explain why, mostly because I don't understand CSS myself.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

CelticWhisper (601755) | about 7 years ago | (#19842687)

The reason is that the scrambled contents are scrambled by 48-bit encryption. The key to decrypt those scrambled contents is recorded to part of the DVD that is inaccessible to DVD-RW drives (i.e. only factory stampers can include those keys). I often wonder why a CSS-key-write enabled drive and key-friendly media haven't come out, released by some company overseas the same as what happened with DVD player "maintenance menus."

Re:1.5 percent? (3, Informative)

tenton (181778) | about 7 years ago | (#19842621)

Well yeah, I understand that the content of the dvd is scrambled. But if you do a bit to bit copy, like most burner apps let you do, you don't care if you can't make sense of those bit. You just copy them to the DVD+/-R, in their scrambled state. The result is a disc that is identical to the original, so it will play just fine in a normal DVD player. I'm pretty sure that I'm still missing something though...

What're your missing is that you can't copy the CSS keys to a DVD+R/-R, since those parts of the disc aren't writable. Without the keys, all you have is the encoded bits; you can't decode them with a normal DVD player.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

jonnythan (79727) | about 7 years ago | (#19842287)

Commercial burning programs do not have DeCSS, because breaking CSS (necessary to copy a commercial DVD) is illegal to use in many countries.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

plague3106 (71849) | about 7 years ago | (#19842289)

Yup, if Nero detects that the DVD is copy protected, it refuses to even make an image.

Re:1.5 percent? (2, Informative)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 7 years ago | (#19842391)

More to the point, there is a section of pressed, CSS protected DVDs that does not physically exist on writable media so it is impossible to just make a bit-for-bit copy of the original that will work. You are unable to duplicate that portion of the original.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

yanos (633109) | about 7 years ago | (#19842409)

Haaa. That explains it. Thanks!

Re:1.5 percent? (5, Informative)

Kadin2048 (468275) | about 7 years ago | (#19842421)

What? If you have a computer with a dvd writer, surely you also have something like nero installed. Maybe I've been away from windows for too long, but I don't remember seeing some form of protection to do a 1:1 copy of a DVD. Thinking about it, that would have made sense. Is there such a protection in commercial burning application?

Yes, there is. Although the people who put together CSS weren't incredibly bright, they weren't that stupid, either.

First, most commercial programs like Nero won't even make an image of an encrypted DVD. There's no technical limitation preventing them from doing so, but they just stop you. I think that's a lawyer-imposed limit.

Anyway, if you did make a block-by-block copy of an encrypted DVD, and burn it to a new disc, it would not play back on normal hardware. This is because the key to the content is stored on the disc in a special location, which is always made unwritable on blank DVDs. (Actually, I'm not sure if it's that the blanks don't let you write there, or if the consumer writers aren't capable of writing there, or both.) But anyway, you can copy all the encrypted data, but without the key your player will just barf on it.

However, DVD playback systems that don't rely on retrieving the key from the disc will play it just fine -- this includes every DVD player on Linux that I'm aware of, once you get the libdvdcss package installed. This is because if the drive fails to hand over the key, libdvdcss will proceed and recover the key through several other methods (one of which is just brute force, and is pretty speedy because of the braindead way CSS is implemented).

Apple's "DVD Player" application will also play an encrypted VIDEO_TS folder, even if it's not on a disc with the key on it. (Though I've never tried it off of a DVD-R disc; it will work just fine if you copy the VIDEO_TS folder from a DVD to your hard drive and play it, which is nice if you want to watch a movie on an airplane without draining your battery or something.)

But anyway, one of the only things that CSS actually does is prevent 1:1 copying onto DVD-R discs. Or at least it did until it was cracked eight ways from Sunday. (The biggest thing that stops people from copying movies, or stopped them while it was still an interesting thing to do [before you could go out and get hard drives at a lower cost-per-MB], was that most feature films won't fit on a 4.7GB DVD blank.)

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

tenton (181778) | about 7 years ago | (#19842657)

(Actually, I'm not sure if it's that the blanks don't let you write there, or if the consumer writers aren't capable of writing there, or both.)

The former; that area is pre-recorded over, so it's not available for recording.

Re:1.5 percent? (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | about 7 years ago | (#19842441)

DVD used as Digital Video (as opposed to Versitile) Disk. To copy a commerical video DVD, you would either need a dual-layer burner (to copy bit-by-bit, and only if they don't have additional protection), or some way of shrinking the video (which is protected by CSS). I'd imagine DVD copying software refers to CSS removal software.

No protection, but no capability. (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | about 7 years ago | (#19842495)

Here's the problem:

Blank dual-layer DVDs are still prohibitively expensive for casual users. Actual Hollywood DVDs are typically 7 or 8 gigs, which requires dual-layer. A single-layer DVD is more like 4.3 gigs.

Even if it weren't for that, I remember hearing that the CSS key is stored in a location that is not writable on consumer blank DVDs. So you can't do it directly in Nero, though there are several tools to easily strip out the CSS and create a version that is absolutely identical, but without the DRM. So, if DL media gets cheap enough, it will become MUCH quicker and easier to burn an exact copy of a DVD, but it's still not something you could do directly in Nero without Nero having to specifically code DeCSS support.

Right now, the process typically involves ripping the DVD, re-encoding it (or "requantizing" it, whatever the fsck that means) at a lower bitrate, and burning it. Or, you can rip only the movie (strip out the special features), and either burn it straight, or re-encode it if necessary. (It's probably also possible to split it into two separate DVDs, but nobody does that.)

Me, I rarely even try. I just encode down to a fifth or a tenth of the size, but in h.264 so it's watchable, and if I run low on space, I burn like five movies to one DVD-R. Watchable only on a computer, of course, but I can live with that.

I have copied DVDs (3, Interesting)

night_flyer (453866) | about 7 years ago | (#19842097)

once was when it wasnt available for sale but Blockbuster had it, it still isnt for sale but I found a copy (Split Second). I have also had to copy some DVDs that were so scratched up they wouldnt play properly, but the copy would (used DVD shrink)

Re:I have copied DVDs (2, Insightful)

griffjon (14945) | about 7 years ago | (#19842227)

Indeed, I often rip my DVDs to insure against scratches, especially if I plan on loaning them to friends, carrying on a trip, etc.

hmm (4, Funny)

flynt (248848) | about 7 years ago | (#19842127)

I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music.

Sounds like you need new friends.

The numbers (5, Funny)

halcyon1234 (834388) | about 7 years ago | (#19842131)

1.5% of users said they copied DVDs.

12.5% of users said they didn't copy DVDs

86% of users shifted their eyes back and forth, coughed and changed the subject

Re:The numbers (1)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | about 7 years ago | (#19842257)

Eh. I'm in the group of people who:

>Has the equipment to copy dvds
>Has the technical knowledge to copy dvds
>Has the bandwidth to download a dvd.

But I still don't copy dvds. Maybe one day I'll finish ripping all my cds on to my computer, but I doubt it. It's just a whole lot of time spent making a copy of something that I don't care enough to actually purchase.

Well, someone's full of shit (4, Funny)

Pluvius (734915) | about 7 years ago | (#19842137)

Either the New York Times, who says that very few people copy and burn DVDs and the people who download DVDs are as likely to be getting porn as not, or the MPAA, who says that movie piracy is rampant and costing the movie industry billions (yes, with a B) of dollars a year.

I know which side I'm betting on.

Rob

Re:Well, someone's full of shit (1)

commodoresloat (172735) | about 7 years ago | (#19842539)

Perhaps it actually is the rampant copying of porn that the MPAA has their knickers in a bunch about?

Option C (1)

Valdrax (32670) | about 7 years ago | (#19842589)

Or very few people copy DVDs and then seed them, allowing movie piracy to be rampant.
Or movie piracy is rampant from non-DVD sources (such as theater cam releases).

The two aren't actually mutually exclusive, though the MPAA is almost certainly inflating numbers (if not just making them up), and I'd really love to see the methodology for where the NYT got theirs.

Re:Well, someone's full of shit (1)

CaptScarlet22 (585291) | about 7 years ago | (#19842681)

I dont think anyone of those 2 are full of shit here. DVD piracy is not just about coping and burning DVD's, as the article talks about...It's also Rip-Upload-Share-Download-Watch. If you can watch it on your computer, why go buy it or go see it at a movie house?? Not going to the movie house is a huge part of the revenue loss. Ticket prices pay for the movie upfront costs...or at least you hope you do...DVD's are just revenue after you break even.

But meh..I still pay for my movies.

still a lot of people (1)

nomadic (141991) | about 7 years ago | (#19842183)

The survey reports that only 1.5 percent of computer users have DVD copying software, and of those 1.5%, 2/3rds of them don't even use it.

.5% of computer users is a breathtaking high number of people.

Re:still a lot of people (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842463)

Okay, 300 million Americans, less than 62%[1] use computers, and 0.5% use DVD copying software: That's under 930,000 people who copy DVDs. Though the number is high compared to, for example, the number of people in your office building, it's still less than one in three hundred people and doesn't seem to be of pandemic proportions.

[1] http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p23-208.pdf [census.gov] - Less than because not everyone in every household with internet access uses it. One-year-olds, for instance, rarely download porn.

Denial (2, Funny)

sehlat (180760) | about 7 years ago | (#19842251)

I did not have sexual relations while watching that DVD!

Re:Denial (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842301)

I did not have sexual relations while watching that DVD!

I ripped, but I didn't encode.

Duh (5, Funny)

illegalcortex (1007791) | about 7 years ago | (#19842255)

Of course very few people copy dvds. It would be rather silly for ALL of us to rip them before putting them up on bittorrent.

Biased sample? (4, Funny)

yuna49 (905461) | about 7 years ago | (#19842263)

From TFA, this study was released by "the NPD Group, a research group that has monitored the behavior of 12,000 Americans with software on their computers."

I'd bet the DVD copying rate is even lower among those Americans who do not have software on their computers.

I don't anymore, its not worth the time or effort (4, Interesting)

Shivetya (243324) | about 7 years ago | (#19842265)

I buy all my DVDs, usually either on release day when they are heavily discounted or from online sellers (like deep discount dvd) when I can get most for 6 dollars or less. Yeah I know I am indirectly supporting the evil MPAA but the fact is I want these movies and its not worth the risk to just buy them, especially when I get them for such a great price. I usually buy odd movies; like those people like us like; and series (again those people here are more likely to buy) that don't hold their price original prices very long.

I tried many of the copy programs, have downloaded torrents of current series, and all that. Now I record on the fly with the tivo-clone what series I want and keep them around till the dvd comes out and gets to a ok price. For the most part copying DVDs was more of a novelty to me and others, its the "oh, I did that when I was a kid" type stuff that just isn't worth the hassle or civil penalties to do anymore

Some people do... (1, Funny)

RingDev (879105) | about 7 years ago | (#19842337)

I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music.
Obviously the author has not served in the military.

-Rick

Fundamentally Flawed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842345)

HYPOTHETICALLY, if I was doing illegal things on my PC (like copying copy-protected DVDs), and someone asked me to participate in a study where my computer activities would be monitored over a period of a few months, I would most certainly turn them down.

How many criminals willingly submit to being monitored?

I don't think the statistics from this on DVD copying have any real-world credibility.

Heehee (1)

foo fighter (151863) | about 7 years ago | (#19842375)

That's because I'm not copying the DVD to a new DVD, I'm ripping and reencoding it to h.264/aac!

Handbrake (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | about 7 years ago | (#19842393)

We only have a couple of window A.C. units in our house, and our DVD player (a PS2) is hooked up to our downstairs TV. Needless to say, it makes watching movies on the dog days of summer a drag. I use handbrake [m0k.org] to rip my own DVD's and then put them on my video iPod. With a cheap cable [amazon.com] , I can hook it up to the small TV in my bedroom so my wife and I can watch our movies in bed in the cool air. And no, they are not porn.

I don't.. (1)

joe 155 (937621) | about 7 years ago | (#19842437)

..partly because I don't know how. I'm sure I could find out easy enough if I really wanted to (say, if anyone knows how to do it using only software which is in the fedora yum repos I'd be interested out of curiosity). Partly because I (at the moment) don't have the HD space for it. Partly because it'd take ages. And partly just because whilst its a hastle to dig out my DVDs and put them in the drive its far less of a hastle than having to rip and then having no space on my computer.

Really? (3, Insightful)

morari (1080535) | about 7 years ago | (#19842459)

No one surveyed me... Why do you think I pay for NetFlix?

Re:Really? (1)

MyMacSmokesPot (560415) | about 7 years ago | (#19842779)

How did you read my mind like that?

Bad statistics (4, Funny)

bobdotorg (598873) | about 7 years ago | (#19842485)

Overheard in a conversation between an MPAA lobbyist and a US Senator:

That 1.5% statistic is very misleading. According to my client (the MPAA), people's connections have become 12 times faster than dialup, so the real figure is 18%. And as more PC's start to have dual core processors, the MPAA forecasts this number to approach 36%.

Now when you further consider that PC screens have increased from 15" to 24" over the past few years, the figure becomes 92%.

And finally, when the 40% increase in brightness of modern displays is taken into consideration, we see that a whopping 129% of people are downloading movies illegally.

Given this vast recent upswing in piracy rates, we urge you to direct all efforts of the FBI, DHS and CIA towards stopping this national economic threat.

Re:Bad statistics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842561)

You do realize that 74% of statistics are made up on the spot, right?

DIVX (1)

mrshowtime (562809) | about 7 years ago | (#19842679)

Why go through all of the hulabaloo and time copying a dvd when a relatively perfect copy can be downloaded off of the internet encoded in DIVX/XVID?

this is only because ... (2, Funny)

non (130182) | about 7 years ago | (#19842729)

MPlayer's man page is too long for most people to read :-)

yuo fai7 1t (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#19842803)

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