Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Zune DRM Cracked

CmdrTaco posted more than 7 years ago | from the that-took-a-bit-longer-than-epected dept.

Microsoft 232

An anonymous reader noted that Zune Scene is reporting that the Zune DRM has been cracked with software now available that strips the DRM from Zune Marketplace tracks and those shared with WiFi.

cancel ×

232 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Microsoft is thrilled by this news (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867221)

It means someone bought a Zune.

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (4, Funny)

CSHARP123 (904951) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867399)

No wonder, They sold the sixth one now.

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (1)

Ramble (940291) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867625)

I believe the songs shared by Wi-Fi arn't DRM encumbered at all. It's a hardware device inside of the Zune that determines when you should stop listening, not a software layer.

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867803)

Harry marries Ginny and has three kids. Ron marries Hermione. Snape becomes headmaster. Tonks and Lupin have a child. Draco lives, gets married, has a child named Scorpius. Neville becomes herbology teacher.

The scar had not pained Harry for nineteen years. All was well.

Everyone lives happily ever after.

Re:Potter is thrilled by this news (1)

jb.cancer (905806) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867999)

Harry marries Ginny and has three kids. Ron marries Hermione. Snape becomes headmaster. Tonks and Lupin have a child. Draco lives, gets married, has a child named Scorpius. Neville becomes herbology teacher. The scar had not pained Harry for nineteen years. All was well. Everyone lives happily ever after.
Yes. yes. we (@/.) get it. will you move onto BBC next, pleeease?

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (4, Interesting)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867821)

Actually, it might even increase sales, which all goes to show how DRM isn't good for hardware sales.

Old News.... (0, Redundant)

EmotionToilet (1083453) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867829)

The Zune is yesterdays trash... Now tell me more about the iPhone!!! It seems I am addicted and the methadone the clinic gave me, which I've been shooting up, doesn't seem to be controlling my cravings! *scratches myself obsessively as though there are little bugs crawling under my skin*

Re:Old News.... (2, Funny)

kryten_nl (863119) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867919)

You'll have to snort instead of shooting up, but this might help. [ebay.com] And it comes with a free blender.

I'm patient (-1, Redundant)

EmotionToilet (1083453) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868137)

Mostly I'm just waiting for the iPhone to pose for Playboy. Oh baby!

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (4, Funny)

Divebus (860563) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867977)

Wow. It took this long for someone to care.

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (3, Funny)

uncoveror (570620) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868183)

A lot of people bought Zunes as gifts for kids and grandkids. Old people believe slick salesmen who say "it is the same as an iPod." Both of the kids that didn't return their Zunes and buy an iPod should be happy the DRM has been cracked.

Re:Microsoft is thrilled by this news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868197)

It's hard to keep digital media locked up in any format. I heard tell of a program that strips DRM off of tracks purchased from the Zune Marketplace, or traded via Wi-Fi. But what makes this more significant is the optional Zune subscription which allows users to download almost all the freaking Zune Marketplace.

At last... (5, Funny)

darien (180561) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867231)

This is the announcement that's been so desperately needed to kickstart Zune sales...

Re:At last... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867409)

This is the announcement that's been so desperately needed to kickstart Zune sales...
Why? It's not like FairPlay hasn't been cracked [wikipedia.org] for a while.

Piracy (5, Informative)

Dr. Zed (222961) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867571)

You miss the point. Because the Zune can network with other Zune, this now means that people have a way to pirate songs over a network.

Oh, wait. Never mind.

Re:At last... (5, Informative)

rob_squared (821479) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867505)

Not to fear, just like PlaysForSure, this will be patched by next week. After all, Microsoft does care about its real customers: Shareholders and Music Industry. http://www.schneier.com/essay-126.html [schneier.com]

Beyond Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867233)

Why would anyone work so hard to take such a worthless device and make it completely priceless?

Now I'm, like, tempted to go buy one of these brown bricks.

Re:Beyond Me (4, Interesting)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867901)

I guess it's the consensus around here that the Zune is a horrible piece of junk. The place I work bought some Zunes and some iPods and some other portable media players and I got a chance to take each home for a few weeks.

I really kind of liked the Zune. To my surprise it wasnt' that ugly brown color. All my (non-DRM) music played just fine, and I even kind of liked the way the Zune sounded with a pair of the $40 JBL 210 reference ear pods. The videos played well and the interface was acceptable. Battery life was pretty good.

I didn't try the wifi stuff, but the unit I tried compared nicely with the 30gig iPod.

I'd never buy one myself because I make a concerted effort to avoid giving Microsoft my business, but it wasn't the horrible crap that I'd been led to believe by that group of people who only seem to post at Slashdot when the issue turns to something having to do with, or competing with, Apple. I have heard that if you look at those people out of the corner of your eye you only see a black silhouette of a dancing gen-Y'er with fake dreadlocks.

Re:Beyond Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867997)

Microsoft's attempt to enter the portable digital audio player market did not just need to compare favorably with the market leader (something that is rather easy to do when you can just copy what they are doing, operating system *cough* *cough*). The failed entry by Microsoft needed to be better than the market leader. Unfortunately, the most innovative thing I have seen come out of Microsoft in 3 years is the 3-D version of Apple's Expose feature MS added to Windows Vista. And that is just taking an existing feature someone else came up with and making it 3D (and requiring end-users to upgrade their video cards).

Re:Beyond Me (2, Interesting)

Glytch (4881) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868155)

That pretty much matches what I've heard from a Zune owner. His gripe isn't with the player's interface or the hardware itself, but rather the deliberate crippling of the wifi and the horrible PC-side software.

Re:Beyond Me (1)

Zonk (troll) (1026140) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868287)

but rather the deliberate crippling of the wifi and the horrible PC-side software.
Well, it's Microsoft. Do you really expect software from them to not be awful and crippled?

Re:Beyond Me (4, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868217)

you are incorrect. It's the consensus here that the Zune is a great piece of hardware. everyone agrees it has a fantastic screen awesome power and is overall a incredible device.....

that was turned into a turd by the software that it runs. They took the decent software inside and then shoved DRM in by the heaploads. Making it a turd.

That makes it the horribly piece of junk.

Once it's cracked and a 3rd party firmware can be installed to run it, I'll be buying 2 or more of them. In it's current DRM and windows Locked state, nobody wants it.

Microsoft catered so hard to the RIAA and MPAA organized crime families that they ruined the product.

it's like the microsoft keyboards, they are actually awesome, but nobody would own one if they refused to type words or phrases that were on a banned list.

Re:Beyond Me (4, Funny)

macdaddy357 (582412) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868215)

I don't know why everyone keeps bashing the Zune. I love mine! It is the perfect size to shim up that old table in my den with a short leg.

Not again. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867235)

I Louisiana brain deathed, fuck!

And yet... (5, Insightful)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867251)

No one cares. Breaking AACS, iTunes, or even CSS was a big (albeit inevitable) deal, but I suspect most of us just shrug this story off for one simple reason--Microsoft, with its ill-thought-out strategy of expanding into every conceivable market at once, at whim, and with no controlling strategy has made itself an irrelevant bit player in multiple markets.

Microsoft is not to blame (1)

acidrain (35064) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867303)

You cant blame Microsoft. This crack was a really long time coming all things considered. I guess if it was more popular somebody might have cared to crack it sooner. I still think congratulations are in order for surviving this long. Also, even if buying a Zune seems somewhat silly, this provides an interesting statistic on the ongoing failures of DRM.

Re:And yet... (4, Insightful)

AusIV (950840) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867523)

This strikes me as somewhat different than breaking AACS, FairPlay, or CSS. If you bought something restricted by one of those formats, it's plausible you want to remove the DRM so you can play it on a platform that is technically capable of playing it, and restricted solely by the DRM. You've paid for the media, and you want to play it on another platform.


The difference with the Zune's DRM is that it effectively allows music "rentals" through WiFi sharing. People can "squirt" each other a song then remove the DRM, effectively getting the song for free. Not much different than pirating off of p2p networks, but it does mean Microsoft has created an incredibly effective piracy device.

For the rest, I agree. Microsoft has tried to over expand, making itself irrelevant in quite a few markets. In the process, they've half-assed their position in their original market, alienating a lot of customers. I've had several more technical friends switch to Linux, and less technical friends switch to Macs in the time since MS has started focusing more on running everything than making a solid OS. Microsoft needs to seriously reconsider their priorities if they want to avoid becoming irrelevant in all of their markets.

Re:And yet... (3, Insightful)

EMeta (860558) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867699)

"...since MS has started focusing more on running everything than making a solid OS."

What is this magical, mystical time period you're talking about where making a solid OS was a successful MS priority? '99-'02? Hadn't they already started with the branching then? (e.g., MSN?)

Re:And yet... (1)

AusIV (950840) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867923)

What is this magical, mystical time period you're talking about where making a solid OS was a successful MS priority?

I knew somebody was going to point that out. I don't really think Microsoft was ever as focused as they should have been on making a solid OS, even when that was their only goal. In more recent years, I've been wondering why on Earth MS is trying to compete in a certain field.

MSN was the beginning of Microsoft over-expanding. Then trying to compete with Google in search has always struck me as ridiculous - Microsoft has very little to gain by running a search engine, and I've never understood why they feel it necessary to compete in that field.

Then there's the browser wars. Rather than comply with standards, Microsoft tried to set their own standards and dominate the market with them. Admittedly, if MS had been able to maintain its position as the de facto standard in web browsing, and stray far enough from established standards, they could have sold Windows to people because it was the only OS that supported the only browser that displayed pages on the internet properly, but this is exactly the problem - rather than try and create a solid OS, they've looked for ways to lock customers into Windows.

The Zune is another example. Microsoft saw Apple being successful with the iPod. I have no idea why they created the Zune. I don't know if they expected it to be profitable, or if they simply wanted to stick it to Apple, but it's clearly been far from successful.

In short, you're right - MS has never focused enough on making a good OS. I'm just thinking that if they don't narrow their focus in the near future, they're going to keep losing ground in all of their markets.

Re:And yet... (2, Interesting)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868163)

but this is exactly the problem - rather than try and create a solid OS, they've looked for ways to lock customers into Windows.
Afaict microsofts main profit centers are windows desktop and office. MS therefore ttries to crush anything that threatens those products. Maybe this is a bad strategy long term but the stock market only really cares about the short term.

Looked at in this light IE (particularlly free IE) and MSN are reaction to netscape and googles threats to make the desktop OS irrelvent. The XBOX line is a reaction to sonys attempts to expand games consoles into the tasks of desktop PCs. The zune is a reaction to apples highly popular iPod/iTunes which give PC users a taster of the Mac.

And yet...Customers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867831)

Well no one cares because this audience hasn't bought a Zune and never would even if there never was any DRM. That's how deep hatred goes.

Re:And yet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868221)

Thing is, stripping the DRM off a WMA file still leaves you with a WMA file. It's like stripping the peanuts off a turd; you're still left with a turd and you can't use the peanuts.

Cool. (0)

MostAwesomeDude (980382) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867253)

Unfortunately, I'm still not buying one. I have an old iPod from a few years back, and it still runs wonderfully. I see no reason to go out and arbitrarily spend money on a toy (a Microsoft toy, no less) when I don't need it and my old hardware still works fine.

Breach of Their Contract (4, Interesting)

blankaBrew (1000609) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867331)

I recall Steve Jobs claiming back in February that if iTunes Fairplay was cracked, they were under contract with the Record Labels to repair the crack within something like 24 hours. He used this as a reason why Apple couldn't license Fairplay to third-parties. Do you think M$ has a similar agreement? Maybe the Labels will have to wait until Patch Tuesday.

Re:Breach of Their Contract (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867881)

Well, this is Microsoft. They may or may not have that type of deal, but you can be sure that this will be patched within a day or so. Now if this was a security vulnerability, say, in the Wifi that replaced all photos with goatse and replaced all music with a file that plays "hey everybody, I'm looking at gay porno" at the maximum volume, users would be lucky if they had a patch out by the next patch Tuesday. It would likely take a few months for them to get around to it.

Flaws in the DRM have a higher priority than security flaws.

Re:Cool. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867651)

wow. do you go from article to article telling people of all the other hardware you own too? who gives a fuck about you not buying one because you own something else? or is this your really limp dick attempt to bash microsoft? if that's the best you can do maybe you can look into buying an imagination.
 
most common fucking idiots like to think they're the most cool dude too. be seeing you around motherfucker.

Re:Cool. (1)

Chewbacon (797801) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867805)

Ditto. I've had my iRiver H10 for over 2 years, just replaced the battery on it and never had an issue with DRM. It also has one crucial feature I haven't seen in another MP3 player: it records FM radio. I work in radio, so it's nice to be able to aircheck on the fly.

Re:Cool. (1)

DeepHurtn! (773713) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868289)

Fuckin' unAmerican pinkos like you make me sick. Go back to Russia, Comrade!

Oh wait, wrong decade. You're letting the terrorists win!

Alright! (5, Funny)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867295)

Now I can listen to music that I didn't buy for the media player I didn't purchase on an MP3 player that I don't possess!

Isn't technology awesome?

Re:Alright! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867371)

Now I can listen to music that I didn't buy for the media player I didn't purchase on an MP3 player that I don't possess!

A little bit redundant, repetitive, and extraneous, don't you think?

Re:Alright! (4, Insightful)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867417)

I swear to god, it's impossible to tell a fucking joke to a geek.

Re:Alright! (5, Funny)

cmdrpaddy (955593) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867781)

Obviously, how are they supposed to know what "fucking" is?

Re:Alright! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867861)

Maybe you should try telling a joke that's actually funny.

Re:Alright! (1)

Spazntwich (208070) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868029)

Damn, I was about to reply to his post with a comment stating something to the effect of, "In before an AC makes the generic defensive idiot nerd comeback of telling you your joke wasn't funny." It seems to be an all too common example of geeky sour grapes that if one didn't get the joke, it's not his fault because it wasn't funny.

I'd just like to point out that this is totally fallacious, as being able to get a joke has absolutely nothing to do with its inherent humor content.

So, a message to those humorless readers whose closest experience to making a joke involves removing their pants: Just take your licks. You only embarrass yourself further when you walk away in a huff mumbling "wasn't funny anyway" like a pissy little kid.

Re:Alright! (4, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867883)

That's no geek, that's the grammar checker in MS Word.

Re:Alright! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868187)

Fucking faggot. Anyone who refers to themselves as "Lord" anything on a web board is a flaming assbanger.

Re:Alright! (1)

MadnessASAP (1052274) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867857)

A post criticizing someone for redundancy modded redundant, Now thats funny. Only on Slashdot ladies and gentleman.

Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

TheEmptySet (1060334) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867305)

So all of this DRM is horribly implemented and cracked quickly. Does anyone know at least theoretically if there is a way to implement DRM which is inherently secure (at least up to the cracking of, say, RSA encryption)? i.e. what might we be up against?

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (3, Insightful)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867405)

In a word, No.

The problem with DRM, in a nutshell, is that you ultimately have to provide the keys for accessing the content to the end user. All DRM, no matter how it's designed, is at the most basic level just security through obscurity. Since decryption keys have to be provided to the end user it's just a matter of time before one of the (potentially) millions of users worldwide manages to find those keys and figure out how to make use of them. Companies spend more and more on trying to restrict access to those keys, and now to revoke compromised keys (think AACS), but even that's a losing battle. Companies spend tons of money and some teenaged hacker in Russia still manages to crack the encryption fairly quickly. It's a no-win battle for the companies. They just haven't admitted defeat yet.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867471)

It's even more simple than that. If one person can write it another will crack it. No piece of code is unbreakable, some just take longer than others. None of these companies are going to spend the kind of money that NSA does on this issue.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867597)

No, because even the NSA can't do DRM. It's theoretically impossible

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868009)

I ment the codebreaking and secre cryptography that they work on 24/7.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

cnettel (836611) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868097)

No, there is still a difference. Something created by man can be incredibly hard to really break, like most public-private key systems when handled properly. DRM is fundamentally broken. Something that is possible is to keep the actual key in hardware and even never let it leave a single chip. All communication to that chip can be done with encryption secured in another manner. If you make key-sniffing off the bus impossible, and make sure to keep the leakage and heat characteristics of the chip non-informative, you have a pretty secure solution.

But, still, it's not as simple as that they don't have the same resources that NSA do to throw at the problem. The real issue is that the problem they try to solve is fundamentally harder.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868129)

That's not necessarily true... properly-implemented public key cryptography is pretty close to unbreakable. Read up on it here. [wikipedia.org] The problem with DRM is that all of the keys necessary to view the content are by definition in the possession of the user. Once the user has all of the keys, it is just a matter of time before the unencrypted content can be extracted. It does not matter if you mail out little encrypted cards, require a dial-in, etc... in the end if the user can see the content, they can copy it - though perhaps not without modifying the hardware (even if only through firmware).

If it weren't for the DMCA, DRM would be completely useless... but now that it is illegal to crack the DRM all of the activity must stay underground or outside of countries with DMCA-like legislation.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

EMeta (860558) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867867)

Unfortunately, there is another option. if you can force your uses to connect to yourservers before they can use your product, you can have new keys developed (and restricted) much faster than they can be hacked. WoW does not have a piracy problem.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868003)

But this is just another layer of security through obscurity. I've seen some anti-DRM tools that simply intercept the connection attempts to DRM servers and return back seemingly valid responses. They can revoke all the keys they want on their servers but if the connection to the server is intercepted and a bogus ACK is sent back instead then the DRM is defeated yet again.

As far as key revocation goes, I think the guys over at Doom9 have shown that the AACS attempts at this are lacking as well. They've been able to publish new keys within 24 hours of them being released by the AACS license authority. It takes a lot more effort for the AACSLA to revoke old keys and publish new ones than it does the hackers to uncover the new keys.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867949)

Unfortunately, it is possible. It only has to be built into hardware and old all-purpose boxes need to retire. New computers (if MS and other giants' plans succeed) will just not allow you to hack anything.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868131)

When that becomes widespread, then someone will start building 'fake' hardware. In fact, this hardware will probably be an emulator running on top of a general purpose computer.

Re:Is Secure DRM Possible? (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868055)

On the other hand, you have to look at the reason the media companies use DRM of one sort or another. And that's because it works. Yes, they'll always be cracked sooner or later. However, that means nothing in terms of raw sales because the vast majority of your customers will never be aware of that fact, or too afraid to try it, or too technically inept to find the tools and use them. So far as those people are concerned, your DRM scheme is perfect because they'll never, ever manage to get around it, even if they wanted to.

CSS was cracked years ago, and now tools to copy DVDs are readily available: just Google "DVD Shrink" [mrbass.org] for one example. That being the case, why do virtually all commercial DVDs have CSS still on them? Because it raises the bar high enough so that only a relative few will be able to manipulate that data in a manner not of the studio's choosing. That's just as true today as it was before DVD Jon came along and shook the applecart.

DRM is like most things: it doesn't have to be perfect, it only needs to be good enough. The RIAA learned that lesson after decades of focusing on the control of "digitally perfect copies". They were shocked at the popularity of Napster and early MP3 rips, because those rips were anything but perfect. They were, however, good enough for a heck of a lot of people. That fact cuts both ways.

Not if you want the end user to ever hear the song (1)

alohatiger (313873) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868027)

If there's a way for the user to hear the song (or otherwise use the content) there's a way for the DRM to get cracked.

Great, another set of morons. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867375)

Hey guys! If you hadn't used JPEG for screenshots, maybe your site would have survived a bit longer. Sheesh. I don't understand what's so fucking hard about chosing between PNG and JPEG. I get it right every fucking time. I must be some kind of genious.

Re:Great, another set of morons. (3, Funny)

telemart73 (677670) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867591)

Yes, you are quite a "genious."

Re:Great, another set of morons. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867907)

Yes, "chosing" between PNG and JPEG isn't really that hard.

It doesn't solve the problem (5, Interesting)

dalmiroy2k (768278) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867441)

We hardcore and tech savvy users usually crack, mod or unlock any device we got ours hand into (Ipods, cell phones, DVD Players, Apple TV, etc) but it doesn't solve Six pack Joe's DRM problems. He will get a Zune, won't bother or know how to crack it and play along MS and MAFIAA's rules.
The same thing will happen with our parents and most people. The solution is buying products that are open and DRM free in the first place.

It might (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867675)

Does this mean I'll be able to play my Microsoft PlaysForSure tracks on my Microsoft Zune now?

Could someone clarify? (1)

mattgreen (701203) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867753)

Parent comment directly contradicts the groupthink that no one bought a Zune, and no one ever will. So, which is it? Is the Zune going to be bought, or is it going to tank?

Re:Could someone clarify? (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867869)

So, which is it? Is the Zune going to be bought, or is it going to tank?

He's talking about the poor Joe Six Packs who got a Zune for Christmas because the iPod was sold out.

Re:It doesn't solve the problem (1)

Idaho (12907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868051)

it doesn't solve Six pack Joe's DRM problems. He will get a Zune, won't bother or know how to crack it


Wait, what?

Surely you meant he'd get an iPod. If he'd gotten a Zune, Joe Sixpack likely wouldn't even be able to succesfully install the software... [engadget.com] , never mind get to the point of actually downloading any songs.

Re:It doesn't solve the problem (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868283)

...it doesn't solve Six pack Joe's DRM problems. He will get a Zune, won't bother or know how to crack it and play along MS and MAFIAA's rules.

Six Pack Joe with a Zune doesn't care about DRM (if he did he wouldn't have purchased a Zune, now would he?). Six Pack Joe assumes that DRM is the way things are, and accepts it because his music player is not the center of his universe. Like it or not, this is the way the majority of the public feels.

Marketshare and cracking (5, Interesting)

Infonaut (96956) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867493)

For years now we've been hearing that Mac OS X is less vulnerable to viruses and cracking because it has a far smaller marketshare than Windows. The argument is that nobody bothers with OS X because of the smaller marketshare. Although Zune DRM is being cracked for a different purpose, it does make me wonder if marketshare is much of a factor in decisions regarding which systems crackers attempt to defeat.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

INeededALogin (771371) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867579)

I actually believe that Zune was an opportunity for someone to get attention. Since no one cared to crack it(looking at you DVD jon), it gave someone else the opportunity to show off. Regardless, it is good because when m$ discontinues the Zune, the people who bought music will still be able to play it.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867593)

Crackers will crack whatever exists. The kiddies might be obsessed with popularity, but the real genius crackers merely hunger for the challenge. They don't do it for money (or pussy lol), they do it because they can.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

kryten_nl (863119) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867961)

They don't do it for money (or pussy lol),...
"Buy a Zune, get a free hooker" would have solved any DRM-cracking worries. When will they learn...

Re:Marketshare and cracking (4, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867639)

I don't think so. That may have been the case when 10.0 or 10.1 came out, but at this point Macs are more common. Combined with the perception of security (and the Apple ads touting such), the Mac is a very nice target. If someone was able to make a good Mac virus that didn't require security authentication or other such things, they could get a lot of press (and probably a very easy shot at a good position in computer security). I'm sure there are plenty of people trying.

The Zune took so long because most people don't care. The average consumer doesn't care (or doesn't know that they should), and they bought an iPod anyway. The average techie (who does care) either bought an iPod, or probably doesn't buy DRMed music. Doing this is an interesting challenge, but it doesn't have the motivation behind it of cracking the DRM on the largest selling player and music store.

The market share thing for OS X is a myth. It's not perfect, but it is more secure by design than XP (Vista was supposed to improve that, I don't know how good a job it really did, I haven't looked). The Zune just wasn't a very temping target, so this took a while.

Mac OSX virus is no challenge at all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868259)

"If someone was able to make a good Mac virus that didn't require security authentication or other such things, they could get a lot of press (and probably a very easy shot at a good position in computer security). I'm sure there are plenty of people trying."

-- It's called Word Macro Virus 97. And yes, it was around well before Mac OS X.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867721)

No. The cracking of the Zune was done because people wanted to get fair use out of their own music players / don't like arbitary DRM. It will have been done by people who own Zunes; if you have a Zune, you won't be focussing your attention on iPods just because they have a much larger market share -- you want fair use out of the player you own.

Things like viruses / malware, on the other hand, are (sadly) these days done for almost entirely commercial reasons: zombifying machines to act as spam relays servers, or in the case of spyware, gathering info on a users browsing habits and using it to serve up adverts to them directly. In those situations, you clearly want to target the group with the larget market share because you'll get more money on your time investment.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867843)

DRM cracking is a very different thing than cracking servers, viruses, trojans, etc. DRM is inherently flawed because you have to provide the keys to the encryption so that the end user can read the data. Even if the NSA developed a DRM system it'd be fairly easy to crack since they'd have to give you the keys as well.

Windows is so damned insecure and targeted by viruses, trojans, etc. because of it's poor design. The argument that Windows is attacked the most because of market share is absurd. Windows was, and still is, designed mainly on an architecture that wasn't designed for network use. Microsoft has also refused to rebuild Windows from the ground up in a more secure model because it would adversely impact the vast majority of Windows applications that rely on the inherent insecurity of the OS. If you take a well designed OS like Open BSD or OS X (which is based on BSD) and install applications that have been shown to be highly secure (like Apache) then it's extremely difficult to crack.

If Windows wasn't the dominant operating system in the world then problems with viruses, trojans, and even spam, wouldn't be anywhere near as prevalent as they are. I've seen Windows computers become fully compromised simply by visiting a compromised website in Internet Explorer despite the fact that virus scanners, firewalls, etc. were all installed on the Windows computer. That's virtually impossible to do on OS's like BSD, OS X, linux, etc. as long as basic security practices are used (basically logging in as an unprivileged user and not root). I've NEVER seen a linux, BSD, or OS X computer infected with malware the way Windows computers are, and I've worked with literally thousands of these computers. True, you might occasionally see a *nix box that has some level of compromise, but it's almost never as bad as what can happen to a Windows computer by simply connecting it to the internet.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

RonnyJ (651856) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868023)

It could also be that the Zune DRM was chosen because of Microsoft's enormous marketshare in the computer industry, not the portable audio market. Regardless of the individual product concerned, some people are going to be more motivated to crack something if it's made by Microsoft.

one word... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868145)

Apache.

Re:Marketshare and cracking (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868315)

for years you have been listening to FUD.

OSX, linux,solaris and other unixes don't have as many viruses and problems because of HOW THEY ARE DESIGNED. it's not easy for a rogue program to elevate it's privileges to superuser like windows does. Nor does any other OS encourage the user to run as administrator all the time like windows does.

Windows and DOS has ZERO security to it compared to everything else. If in a unix box I run an app that wants to install files in the system area, I have to give it admin privileges or run it as admin. windows allows anything run by the user free reign over the c:/windows root as well as the registry and even the ntldr.exe file.

THAT is the reason, absolutely everything else is 100% pure unadulterated FUD. popularity means nothing, how incredibly easy it is to own a windows box means everything.

Until nobody runs the older insecure Windows OS's like XP and older this will continue to be.

It is a solid fact that it is far FAR easier to write a rogue app to run with superuser priviliges on a windows machine than any other Operating system. Yes you can exploit buffer overflows on any OS, but windows leaves the door open with the keys in the lock on 98% of all installs.

Once again, the hordes bring it down (0, Redundant)

strredwolf (532) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867501)

Yep, Slashdotted. Time to use the Coral cache again...

Re:Once again, the hordes bring it down (2, Insightful)

DarkJC (810888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867895)

All that effort to make a post and you didn't even bother making it semi-useful by including a link..

The link to FairUse4WM for Vista and Zune (5, Informative)

Zune-Online.com (1081233) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867531)

Here are the links to the FairUse4WM :

FileSend [filesend.net]
zUpload [zupload.com]
Files-Upload [files-upload.com]
zShare [zshare.net]
QuickSharing [quicksharing.com]
SendSpace [sendspace.com]
ShareBee [sharebee.com]

MD5 hash 0d5eaa7f8010e1293221a320943adb7e
Via:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=127943 [doom9.org]

Nice try Microsoft (4, Funny)

Statecraftsman (718862) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867567)

No, cracking your own DRM won't allow you to reach your Zune sales goals either.

Re:Nice try Microsoft (1)

Statecraftsman (718862) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867599)

I also cannot believe there's such a thing as a Zune scene.

Re:Nice try Microsoft (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867847)

It's even more unbelievable than http://dellrumors.com/ [dellrumors.com]

oh no! (5, Insightful)

friedman101 (618627) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867621)

DRM exists entirely for the protection of the RIAA, not Microsoft. This will only increase the popularity of the Zune. An mp3 player that can share files over wifi with no restrictions, sign me up. I can't see Microsoft being too proactive about locking down the DRM again.

Re:oh no! (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867761)

DRM exists entirely for the protection of the RIAA, not Microsoft. This will only increase the popularity of the Zune. An mp3 player that can share files over wifi with no restrictions, sign me up. I can't see Microsoft being too proactive about locking down the DRM again.
Oh, certainly -- until a pair of RIAA exectives sidle up to Steve Ballmer in a few weeks time, asking how he'd feel about all tracks under the Universal and Sony labels being immediately and unilaterally withdrawn from the Zune marketplace. Upon which, sadly, MS will inevitably jump back into line ahead of the tip of the RIAA's whip, and back to full antipiracy proactive mode before you can say "DevelopersDevelopersDevelopers!"...

All Six Zune Users.... (0)

Timtimes (730036) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867659)

....simultaneously wet themselves. Enjoy.

Told you so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867665)

A guy from Microsoft came to my school to give a talk about working for the company. It turns out that he was on the DRM team, which prompted a lot of jeers from the audience. Before his presentation got underway we had an exchange about DRM. My position was and still is that, "while I'm not fundamentally opposed to DRM, I just don't think it will work". He tried to argue with me, but I guess I was right after all.

Error in Article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19867667)

Those songs transmitted on WIFI are not shared but squirted. Obviously this was written by people that never used a Zune.

Its a ZUNE though. Who cares? IT uses WMP .. eww! (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867697)

As much as i hate Itunes, its actually a nice program (just programmed like complete shit on the PC) But anyways... the Windows Media Player is HORRIBLE. It mangled all of my music and i had to do all my tags. I do like WMP's ability to show the controls on task bar though. Other than that.. i'm not a fan of WMP right now. Eww yuck..

Oh yeah DRM cracked? Who didnt see that coming? DRM is dead. Its a stupid idea to rally your share holders around. The real truth is, the people have spoken and we dont want DRM and we will avoid buying wherever possible and there will be brilliant digital equivalents to George Washington, that will crack all of this nonsense.

Re:Its a ZUNE though. Who cares? IT uses WMP .. ew (1)

joshzweig (1106205) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867787)

I heard it uses even shittier specialized Zune-Ware That doesn't work with the Zune...

Re:Its a ZUNE though. Who cares? IT uses WMP .. ew (2, Informative)

dhazard (860108) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868231)

"the Windows Media Player is HORRIBLE. It mangled all of my music and i had to do all my tags. "
You can turn this off. Its just as easy as it is in iTunes, which mangles all your music as well by default.

Good news, if of limited use... (1)

Crimson Wing (980223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19867733)

Well, if I ever can't find a specific song, say, using Ares Galaxy, and have to look in the Zune Marketplace, now I'll be able to clean the DRM off of it.

Probably never need it, but I suppose it's good to have the ability.



...Yes, this means I'm one of those people who actually bought a Zune. I love the thing. No, I did not get a brown one. The brown makes it look too much like a friggin' candy bar made out of-- well, you know.

Re:Good news, if of limited use... (3, Funny)

wkitchen (581276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868127)

No, I did not get a brown one. The brown makes it look too much like a friggin' candy bar made out of-- well, you know.
Chocolate?

Anyone emailed them yet? (4, Funny)

NitroWolf (72977) | more than 7 years ago | (#19868091)

Has anyone emailed the 4 people who own Zunes yet and let them know?

I think two of them were non-techies, so they may not know.

because christians are so intolerant. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868157)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19762050/site/newsweek / [msn.com]

and just think, those muslim madmen have their claws in europe now too.

DRM is a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19868195)

DRM is like buying a new car (or any locked item) and they send the car, the keys, and a valet. You can't get in without the valet, and he keeps the keys. Then they want to arrest you for firing the valet or figuring out how to hop in the other side and lift the key out of his back pocket while he's turned.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?