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Where the Wii Fits In

CmdrTaco posted more than 6 years ago | from the something-to-think-about dept.

Wii 371

AGFlamey writes "On Angry Gamer is an interesting and lengthy article about the new direction Nintendo are taking with the Wii and in particular "non-games" like Wii Fit and Big Brain Academy. From the article: "Hardcore folks don't like to admit it, but Mario and Zelda are relics of the past. It's become quite clear that Nintendo is losing interest in remaking the same old games over and over. They want to pull us into something new, if only we can give them the chance." Is it such a bad thing that Nintendo are neglecting their roots?"

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371 comments

So that must be (0)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946149)

Why there is neither Mario nor Zelda to play on the Wii then, huh?

Re:So that must be (1)

Kangie (975603) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946189)

But there's still hope. I'm waiting for Final Halo MCCXVI, or Grand Theft Auto 19.

But on a more serious note, It's nice to see games (even non-games) that step outside the boundaries of normality, sometimes you wnd up with a really interesting game that's worth playing. Others, you ask? Think of a certain Romero game..

Re:So that must be (2, Interesting)

Jartan (219704) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946289)

Why there is neither Mario nor Zelda to play on the Wii then, huh?


I think a lot of people who work in the industry would probably put Mario in the "casual" market category. Either that or some sort of casual/hardcore hybrid. Zelda isn't exactly feeling it's roots lately either. It's not hard to imagine the first Zelda exclusively for the Wii might be a bit more casual than previous titles.

Re:So that must be (5, Interesting)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946883)

And prior to the most recent generation of games, Mario was somehow hardcore only or completely different?

The only major change that Mario has undergone is a transition from 2D to 3D, but beyond that the game hasn't changed a lot. If you think the new Mario games are too easy have you ever collected all 120 stars in any of the more recent titles? It's not too terribly hard to collect enough stars to fight the final boss and beat the game, but to collect every single star requires a lot more effort. It's a game that's accessible to most people who are able to work the controller. You can do the bare minimum and finish the game, or you can collect everything. It's fairly accomodating.

I'd say the only major change is that the new 3D Mario games are on a whole less accessible to people than the old 2D games. I think using more simplified control methods make these games available to other audiances who would not have given them a chance otherwise.

I also fail to see how Zelda isn't "feeling its roots lately either." The last incarnation of the game in Twilight Princess was easily the best since Ocarina of Time and in some ways surpassed that game. I had a great time with Twilight Princess and it's one of those games that can easily suck up forty hours of your life. I fail to see how a game like this with dungeons that can take hours to fully explore and solve can be labled as more casual. If anything, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass make the game more accessible with their new control schemes while at the same time providing a new and novel approach for vetrens of the series. Repackaging the same exact game over and over with a slightly different story doesn't necessarily make a game good or exciting.

Don't mistake more accessible for more casual. Accessible means that more people are able to pick it up and play it and enjoy their experience. Casual means that they are able to do this while not devoting hours to it at a time in order to enjoy it.

Re:So that must be (5, Interesting)

jessecurry (820286) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946499)

LOL... I thought the same thing. Nintendo made sure to get it's classics out right away. Now that they have a solid library of base games they're branching out and trying new things. There are even some new Mario games on the way. I think that the author kind of missed the point, but it's interesting to think about the new directions that nintendo is opening up.
I think that new types of games are a necessary thing, and focusing on new types of gameplay is a very good move by nintendo that will benefit the entire industry. Microsoft and Sony systems now have production and development costs that are so high that the manufacturers cannot afford to take risks, but nintendo not only is focusing on the gameplay with their in-house development, but they also have begun to open the platform to independent developers so we can start to see a bunch of great smaller titles in the future.

Re:So that must be (1)

that IT girl (864406) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946717)

Of course. Mario is practically Nintendo's flagship game/character. I like that they have so far managed to stick with the classics and still branch out for new games. I just hope Mario doesn't go the way of the "GameBoy" name. Yes, adapt to a changing market, but don't abandon what so many serious AND casual gamers still love and remember from back in the day.

Re:So that must be (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946805)

LOL... I thought the same thing. Nintendo made sure to get it's classics out right away. Now that they have a solid library of base games they're branching out and trying new things. There are even some new Mario games on the way. I think that the author kind of missed the point, but it's interesting to think about the new directions that nintendo is opening up.
Exactly: We aren't losing Mario, we're gaining new game mechanics! Win/win.

Re:So that must be (0, Troll)

drsquare (530038) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946809)

Why there is neither Mario nor Zelda to play on the Wii then, huh?
In Europe at least, no. Maybe they have a different strategy over here, i.e. the old 'don't bother releasing anything here until a year after everywhere else so we don't make any sales' strategy.

I'm not so sure... (5, Insightful)

Red Samurai (893134) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946169)

Don't count out the classics just yet. AAA titles like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid are pretty much the main attraction for Nintendo fans, and without them, Nintendo wouldn't be able to support itself with novelty alone. AAA titles have always been Nintendo's pillar of strength, and the only reason they didn't call it quits when the Gamecube lost out last time round.

Re:I'm not so sure... (4, Interesting)

Nitroadict (1005509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946231)

Hmm, after the 64 and Gamecube, and the sudden huge success of the Wii, is it a bad thing that Nintendo may be changing it's strategy? I don't think it is... but I don't think they are neglecting their roots either. It looks more like they are updating their strategy and bringing their roots with them... and from the glimpse of what the Wii is offering now, I see nothing but interesting things coming from Nintendo in the future. Hardcore gamers won't miss out on anything: they are 3 consoles out, 3 more coming up soon in the form of rumors for the next-gen (PS4? The Next Xbox? Another more powerful Wii and/or another portable in the vein of the DS? Only time will tell); the Ps3 will (hopefully) eventually prove more than enough to satisfy hardcore gamers as long as they don't lose any exclusives (MGS4, FF13...), Xbox360 is proving to very formidable in the online arena. Aside from a lot of crappy games (and every era in video gaming had it's fair share of countless bad games, even SNES), this could be a new golden age of gaming if looked at with the proper perspective. Long live video gaming, both casual & hardcore, and hell, why not everything in-between. If only Sega could come back someday with a console than finished the job what the dreamcast almost had (which was consistent success).

Re:I'm not so sure... (3, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946889)

Nintendo's strategy, with the exception of the poorly-received GameCube, has been to change. This is nothing new, they are, in fact, returning to their roots just as everyone is screaming at them for not sticking with them.

As already pointed out, Mario, Zelda and Metroid games continue to be produced, and new games are being created constantly as well. (Brain Age comes to mind as a recent success in innovation that doesn't require odd hardware.)

The GameCube was so poorly-received because it tried to do the same thing as other consoles, but with much, much less power. It was like the Jr Olympics... Cute and mildly entertaining, but hardly as exciting as the real thing. The Wii returns to Nintendo's roots and offers gimmicky controllers (Robby the Robot? The Power Glove?) to enhance the gaming experience, instead of relying on flashy graphics.

I own all 3 current gen systems, and while I don't really have a 'favorite', the PS3 is my least favorite. So far, it's done nothing (game-wise) that the 360 hasn't. Maybe Little Big Planet and Echochrome will change that... They're the only thing in the near future that has my attention. And maybe more classic games will help me like it better, as well. They've got Jet Moto (definitely one of may all-time racing games) but they don't have anything else I want, yet. Persona would be awesome. I recently started playing it again, and it's about what I remembered... Poor interface, but has plot and some thought into the combat/contact system.

Of the remaining 2, the Wii is my favorite for light-hearted games, and the 360 for serious games. That's not saying much for the consoles themselves, though, as those kind of games just naturally gravitate that way.

Re:I'm not so sure... (1)

Twiceblessedman (590621) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946799)

They didn't even come in last really last round either. Maybe in North America but worldwide they were pretty solid.

Nintendo is not neglecting its roots. (5, Insightful)

kevn (730412) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946175)

Zelda Twilight princess and Super Mario Galaxy not to mention the upcoming Metroid shooter kind of make this guys argument seem silly. Nintendo is pursuing the casual gamer but they are not about to "neglect their roots."

In case you have forgotten (5, Insightful)

perlhacker14 (1056902) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946181)

In case you have forgotten, the old lines are the better sellers. Among all the newer things like wii sports, and many others, Mario and Zelda still have a huge fan base and still sell. It is not a bad thing that Nintendo is moving for more lines, but they should still keep the old tried and true (and the better) series until sales begin to drop (which they never will, if the quality keeps up and only when fans become bored). I still play all the older sets, and my friends still do, and we all find enjoyment in things like Smash and Zelda and Starfox and mario party.

Re:In case you have forgotten (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946481)

We have forgotten and we get on with our lives. Loser.

Re:In case you have forgotten (1)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946709)


In case you have forgotten, the old lines are the better sellers. Among all the newer things like wii sports, and many others, Mario and Zelda still have a huge fan base and still sell. It is not a bad thing that Nintendo is moving for more lines, but they should still keep the old tried and true (and the better) series until sales begin to drop (which they never will, if the quality keeps up and only when fans become bored). I still play all the older sets, and my friends still do, and we all find enjoyment in things like Smash and Zelda and Starfox and mario party.


Um, pardon me if I'm wrong, but haven't the brain age and other games like that sold like a billion copies each? They're extremely popular if only cause they're targeting an untapped market.

Enough of Mario and Zelda (2, Informative)

benzapp (464105) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946185)

Personally, the reason I don't get any nintendo machines these days is because of the endless Mario and Zelda remakes. The original NES came out when I was in first grade. Now, I'm almost 30 and have been playing these games virtually my entire life.

I might pick a Wii up someday, but so far not much has convinced me Nintendo is really trying to start a new mode of gaming. It looks promising, but it's just not there yet. Obviously, millions of people ARE giving Nintendo a chance, especially compared to the failed Gamecube. I look at the game releases, and most of it just hasn't lived up to everyone's expectations. I don't care how good the latest Zelda game is, or Paper Mario. I just can't bring myself to play these games anymore. It's time for Nintendo to not just reinvent the hardware, but to reinvent the entire story behind their games.

Re:Enough of Mario and Zelda (3, Insightful)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946367)

Come on. If there's one thing that you can't accuse Nintendo of it's lacking originality in coming up with new games.

Look at the WarioWare series of games, for example. If WarioWare: Smooth Moves on the Wii isn't an example of "reinventing the entire story behind a game" then, please tell us, what out there is?

As for the Gamecube being a failure, well, if you go by the number of consoles sold then, sure, it wasn't as popular as the PlayStation 2, and was a "failure" but if you use that whacky profit metric that those crazy kids down at Wall Street are so fond of, the Gamecube did quite well.

I've never owned a Nintendo console in my life but it seems that they've made plenty of original games along the way, as well as making plenty of sequels (and let's not forget that sequels can be original too!), and made plenty of money doing it.

Re:Enough of Mario and Zelda (3, Insightful)

mh1997 (1065630) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946601)

Personally, the reason I don't get any nintendo machines these days is because of the endless Mario and Zelda remakes. The original NES came out when I was in first grade. Now, I'm almost 30 and have been playing these games virtually my entire life.
This is absolutely correct. I'm 40 and haven't played video games in a while until I started reliving my childhood thru MAME. After getting into MAME, I've been looking at new video games and have learned that with very few exceptions, the "new" games are the games I played when I was a kid, except with better graphics.

Re:Enough of Mario and Zelda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946917)

Perhaps you should think about consuming more good stories from other sources (books, movies,...). Relying on games for stories is inefficient. If you consume a lot of good stories, the bad or repetitive stories of Zelda and other games will stop mattering to you.

Correction... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946197)

LOOSING interest.

This is /. after all.

Re:Correction... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946325)

Because this is slashdot, I guess "the new direction Nintendo are taking" is also deemed to be correct.

Re:Correction... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946649)

What you say??

Re:Correction... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946719)

the only direction slashdot are taking is the iPhone. So nobody pays attention to anything else.

Leave it to /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946205)

Figures. Leave it to /. to make a post about which hole it goes in.

Pet Rock, Wii, Disco (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946209)

Right there.

Not neglecting their roots (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946233)

They are simply growing branches.

Nintendo are Smart (5, Insightful)

segedunum (883035) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946239)

What they're trying to do is create an entertainment console that everyone, not just hardcore FPS gamers, can have a go at. There are far more ordinary people out there than hardcore gamers (that market is pretty much completely saturated), and this is probably why some people from Microsoft and Sony have got surprised and upset over the success of the Wii.

Re:Nintendo are Smart (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946421)

The PS3 is selling at roughly the same rate as the PS1 and a little behind the PS2. The PS2 continues to sell like mad with the largest and greatest library of games ever created for a console. Sony's PS3 has made BluRay the winner of the HD format battle and they will be getting royalties from every BluRay disc sold. Sony is selling now in the US over 400k consoles a month. Sorry, no one at Sony gives a damn about Nintendo's little sideshow. And from the absolutely pathetic E3 showing no third party developers give a damn either outside of last gen ports with waggle tacked on.

Oh, yeah, 480p waggle. Yeah, gotta hand it to Nintendo for managing to find quite a few suckers to rebuy their old console with a gimmicky controller added on. Not much of a five year strategy but it is amusing to watch the suckers line up for such a sad excuse for a console.

WiiFit! LOL!

Re:Nintendo are Smart (2, Insightful)

bigman2003 (671309) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946659)

Quite a while prior to the Wii being released, Microsoft had the Xbox Live Arcade. They have been courting the 'casual' crowd for a while. They have had some success with it, (not as much as Nintendo) and it should not be forgotten.

When I was sick feverish stupor a few weeks ago, I played Catan for about 20 hours over a two day period. I played Luxor 2 this morning, and I am looking forward to some Bomberman tonight.

Nintendo fans are like Apple fans. They assume that their favorite company comes up with every concept they market. For instance, people who think that the browser on the iPhone is something wonderful and new have never seen Opera Mini.

The main difference with Nintendo right now is that they are PRIMARILY going after the casual market.

Re:Nintendo are Smart (1)

Kopiok (898028) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946695)

Exactly. The "Hardcore" crowd feel like the casual market is muscling in on their market, and all games will now be just like Wii Sports, or Brain Training. They're afraid that this new market is so much bigger than them that it'll shut them out and the companies will lose any sort of focus on the games that they like to play. And they're pretty vocal about it, too. But, Nintendo has stated that they have not forgotten the Hardcore gamer and still have titles for them. They present Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Super Smash Bros, and Mario Kart as a sign that they have not forgotten. Some believe them and have faith, others still won't see it.

Nintendo is for EVERYONE, but some people can't see it.

Who cares if they abandon it? (1)

Jartan (219704) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946265)

"Nintendo has turned its back on hardcore gamers!" they cry. "The Nintendo we know is gone!" they shout. Poor Miyamoto just can't attain the elusive benefit of the doubt, no matter how many times he proves us wrong.


This made me pull a WTF? Proves us wrong? I'd say it's been pretty clear for a long while now that Nintendo has indeed pulled out of the hardcore section of the market. It's not like that will hurt the hardcore market though. Even in the unlikely event that they gain market dominance over the console market that will just shift some hardcore focus to the PC market where it belongs in the first place.

Re:Who cares if they abandon it? (4, Interesting)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946607)

This made me pull a WTF? Proves us wrong? I'd say it's been pretty clear for a long while now that Nintendo has indeed pulled out of the hardcore section of the market.

If you had read the whole article, you would have seen that the writer made the point that Nintendo never aimed for the hardcore audience. "Hardcore" is a bullshit word anyway--a hallmark of geek pretension.

Miyamoto "proves us wrong," because he is often causing change for the better, but gamers, journalists, and developers question his vision at first.

Re:Who cares if they abandon it? (1)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946627)

Exactly right. The N64 era is well over for the consoles. Nintendo's trying for mass appeal, and it's obviously working.

And, how is it a bad thing at all? They're dominating the market, especially if you count the DS. No, I don't think too many people will be pissed off at Nintendo with things like Smash Bros. Brawl coming out, which has the appeal to both casual party gamers and to the hardcore.

Re:Who cares if they abandon it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946635)

This whole argument seems to assume that hardcore gamers and casual gamers are non-intersecting sets. I believe that is outright wrong, and I believe I am a counterexample, here are my reasons: When my gaming computer was new, it cost close to $3000 in parts (read: $350 video cards, SLI'ed, for comparison Alienware wanted twice as much for a similar setup). Money-wise, I don't think many would argue that constitutes hardcore. I racked up over 110 days of playtime back on my WoW days over a period of 1.75 years. Before that, I played Counterstrike religiously and was a member of a top competitive clan. Dedication and time-wise, I think that constitutes hardcore. My gamer buddies and I frequently talk games and LAN parties and keep up on the latest releases (and have been woefully disappointed in the PC sector of late, hence why I said when my gaming computer was new). If this guy were correct you would not expect to find a Wii in my apartment, and you'd be dead wrong. In fact I have 6 Wii games and 4 controlers with nunchuks. Further, you would expect to find a PS3 and/or an Xbox360, and again you would be dead wrong. Hardcore gamers see the Wii as something new: we've experienced everything else and it's old-hat to us. Something new is what we really crave. I am very excited to see what game developers do with the Wii's controlers over the next 2-3 years, and as a hardcore gamer I laugh at the presses' idiotic ideas that the Wii doesn't appeal to us. And I am not alone, virtually every hardcore gamer I know either owns a Wii or wants one.

Re:Who cares if they abandon it? (1)

mrbcs (737902) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946727)

Agreed.

When is Lucas gonna make a light sabre game!!!!! I can't wait.. gonna have to try out one of the sword games I guess...

Knights of the Old Republic on Wii? Wicked!

Re:Who cares if they abandon it? (1)

Kopiok (898028) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946729)

Prove us wrong as in: Metroid Prime 3, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy.

Re:Who cares if they abandon it? (1)

Saurian_Overlord (983144) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946777)

I wouldn't say Nintendo was ever really in the hardcore market. They tried to get into it with the SNES, but censored versions of Doom and MK didn't cut it; the N64 got some titles that weren't expected on a Nintendo system (i.e. Goldeneye); I think the Gamecube kept up the best in that area. But I wouldn't say they're letting go of the small hold they have in that market.

...hardcore focus to the PC market where it belongs in the first place.

Damn right. I don't know anyone who calls himself a "hardcore gamer" and counts on Nintendo for his favorites; anyone who considers theirself "hardcore" is going to have multiple consoles and probably a PC as well. They do not and will never expect GTA or Halo on a Nintendo system.

I Have a Bigger Complaint (5, Insightful)

tompatman (936656) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946271)

When will there be a store which actually has a Wii for sale to go along with their fancy store display?

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (1)

Hangtime (19526) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946321)

Damnit, I don't have points are you would getting some right now. I have never even SEEN a Wii console for sale, PERIOD. I think this whole Wii thing is a government conspiracy. They don't actually exist. ;)

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (1)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946793)

Really? Here (Greece) every store has one or two, it's relatively unknown here (everyone knows the PS, maybe the xbox), but when they play a game of Wii tennis everyone wants to go buy one, so I'm betting everyone will know it before long on viral marketing alone.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (1)

despisethesun (880261) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946807)

A friend of mine just bought one and he had a really difficult time finding one in most of the big electronics stores, game shops and department stores. He wound up going to Toys R Us and he said they had tons of them there. Apparently people don't think to go there for video games very often (I don't know why, every time I've gone they've had at least as large a selection as Best Buy), so if you want to pick one up, Toys R Us might be the place to check.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (2, Informative)

kevorkian (142533) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946377)

Target , sunday mornings .. as a matter of fact I just came from my local target , they still had 5 and I watched 2 get sold while I was in the dept.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (1)

ocularDeathRay (760450) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946681)

yup thats how I got mine about 2 weeks after new years. target on sunday morning. they had 20 or 30 of them. sold out in 15 minutes.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946465)

Wow, way to make yourself look like an idiotic fanboy.

Want a Wii? Walk into any store in any major city and buy one. There were five or six sitting at the BestBuy I stopped by last night gathering dust.

Bit of advice for the future, sitting online and posting bullshit about 'my favorite console is sold out everywhere' does absolutely nothing.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (2, Informative)

Danse (1026) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946721)

Want a Wii? Walk into any store in any major city and buy one. There were five or six sitting at the BestBuy I stopped by last night gathering dust.
Lucky you. None of the BBs in my city have them in stock. Neither does ToysRUs, Target, Wal-Mart, or Circuit City. They say they don't usually know when they'll get a shipment or how many they'll get, and they sell out within a matter of hours. So, unless I want to show up each morning when the doors open, then I probably won't be getting one anytime soon. I've had several people at work ask me where they can get a Wii. I just tell them to start showing up at the stores early and hope for the best.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946875)

Wow, way to make yourself look like an idiotic fanboy.

Wow, way to "discredit" a person with an ad hominem attack.

Want a Wii? Walk into any store in any major city and buy one. There were five or six sitting at the BestBuy I stopped by last night gathering dust.

I'm sorry, but that person's experience mimicks mine as well. While I'm not actually looking for them, I do notice that the actual console is almost conspicuously missing. I've been to a few stores each of Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Target, Game Stop (or whatever they are called now, I don't pay attention to the name anymore), etc, and I've never seen it for sale. This is in a metropolitan area with about a million people.

Re:I Have a Bigger Complaint (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946757)

I bought one at target a couple months ago. Look for the Sunday ads, they'll have them in stock when they advertise. I went fairly early in the morning (9am maybe) to get one, but I did notice they still had several of them available at perhaps 2pm the same day, so you don't have to be one of those insane people that lines up outside the store at 5am.

What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946277)

How are they neglecting their roots when they (a) still have a string of games coming out for wii based on classics like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc. and (b) they use the wii as a platform to sell the original games online.

Cart, horse, etc (4, Insightful)

freeweed (309734) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946285)

Yeesh. Hardcore gamers are still struggling to "get" the Wii in the first place. Every single Wii story on Slashdot since November has been littered with the following post, usually modded up by another gamer (mix and match sentences as appropriate):

"Yeah, Nintendo may make a few dollars from Grandma, but I'm a hardcore gamer. I bought one on release and there just aren't any good games that I like now. I've gotten bored of it and it's collecting dust in my closet. I'm back to playing GTA for the 14th time on my PS2. I'm selling my Wii as I wait for MGS to come out for PS3. The Wii's graphics look dated, come on Nintendo, you're going to lose my dollars here! I don't see what the big deal is with the Wiimote, it's just a gimick and will rapidly become boring to people. I'm already sick of the Wiimote and wish Nintendo would release some good 70-hour long RPGs."

Etc, etc, etc.

The hardcore gamers STILL don't understand that the Wii, with all of its perceived warts (to them, anyway), is outselling EVERYONE. By the end of the summer there will be more Wiis out there than 360s (the next largest market). And Nintendo still can't keep these things in stock. All with "no good games" to buy.

No shit the hardcore gamers don't understand the new games - hell, they never understood the old games in the first place (ie: why any of us enjoyed Twilight Princess as much as we did - the Wiimote was just a gimick, right??).

Now to watch people respond to this post with exactly the dialog I quoted above ;)

Re:Cart, horse, etc (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946327)

Just when you think you couldn't despise the Wii and its pathetic fanboys...a turd of a post like this one comes along and you realize there are whole new dimensions you never knew could be filled with hate for the gimmick of a system.

Disco 4 Ever!

Simple. (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946433)

The hardcore gamers STILL don't understand that the Wii, with all of its perceived warts (to them, anyway), is outselling EVERYONE

Windows outsells Linux and OSX many, many, many times over. Windows is better..... right?

I'm still happily buying great PS2 games, and will continue to even after I pick up a PS3. Nintendo holds no appeal to me.

Re:Simple. (2, Insightful)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946641)

First comment: Arguably, Windows is better for the average person. Try getting Grandma on the command prompt. Additionally, More != Better, however in this case, the Wii is clearly a good product, unlike the Windows/Linux comparison, where most people here assume "Windows sucks." Second Comment: Good for you. I'm still happily buying Xbox games. Nintendo happens to hold a mass appeal to me, as they happen to have a track record of having amazingly fun games.

Re:Simple. (1)

jombeewoof (1107009) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946747)

The hardcore gamers STILL don't understand that the Wii, with all of its perceived warts (to them, anyway), is outselling EVERYONE

Windows outsells Linux and OSX many, many, many times over. Windows is better..... right?
...
Your argument is flawed...
Windows, the dominant product in its market will obviously outsell what is considered by many to be a niche product.Ask any average pc user and they will tell you that linux is for "geeks", I don't concern myself with OSX so I don't know what people say about that.

While in the gaming market, Nintendo, who by some accounts failed, or lost the last console war is coming back with a completely different strategy and it seems like they might have had a great idea.
with the last gen. PS2 obviously won and Sony went in another direction, the exact opposite of the one Nintendo went in this time.
While the Xbox team kind of brought on more of the same.

If an Operating System came out that radically changed the way we used a computer and that caught some steam, then your argument would be valid.

[quote]

I'm still happily buying great PS2 games, and will continue to even after I pick up a PS3. Nintendo holds no appeal to me [/quote]
There are still dozens of PS2 games that I haven't played, and will probably pick up at some point, but I'm not about to go spend $600 on a console. No way, no console is worth that much to me.

Xbox 360, just more of the same old crap with better graphics and online more integrated. Not really interested, but gears of war does look fun.

The Wii though, that's more interesting and personally I'm sick of the same old crap. Graphics don't mean all that much to me. I've always been more into the gameplay, and the Wii holds more appeal for people like me I guess.

Lemme break it down for you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946753)

What you don't seem to understand is that *YOU* don't matter. You're not their target audience. While hardcore gaming may be hardcore, it's certainly a very small segment of the gaming market.

So, just because you play a lot, that doesn't mean game companies are catering to you. That's what the grandparent is saying when he says hardcore gamers don't get the Wii. Sure, you don't have any interest in it, but a bajillion other people do, and that's what Nintendo is targeting.

Re:Cart, horse, etc (3, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946473)

The hardcore gamers STILL don't understand that the Wii, with all of its perceived warts (to them, anyway), is outselling EVERYONE. By the end of the summer there will be more Wiis out there than 360s (the next largest market). And Nintendo still can't keep these things in stock. All with "no good games" to buy.

I think they understand that the Wii is outselling everyone; if they don't understand the popularity, that's not necessarily some intellectual flaw, but rather just represents a different taste.

Like a quick glance at the neilsen ratings website reveals the top three most watched TV shows last week were a baseball game, a game show, and a reality TV show. I, personally, don't understand how anyone could enjoy any of those things. Does this mean that I don't know that they're popular, or refuse to believe that people will continue to like them? Of course not.

If the Wii comes to completely dominate the industry, there's a good chance a lot of really first-rate, complicated, serious games will never be released, in favor of hundreds of Wii sports clones.

And speaking of understanding, I continue to not really understand the long-standing slashdot rhetorical device of creating hypothetical critics. Isn't enough to make a point without also going into a detailed description of the people who you think will inevitably attack your post? This practice seems most common when people take an extremely popular viewpoint, it's like they're so nervous about being in the majority, that they try to paint themselves as brave underdogs attacking the status quo.

95% of the people on slashdot seem to be rabid Nintendo-can-do-now-wrong Wii supporters, yet that 95% continues to insist that there's this huge horde of pro-Sony/MS fanboys, who never seem to actually show up.

Re:Cart, horse, etc (2, Insightful)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946483)

I'd like to think of myself as a hardcore gamer. My first thought of the Wii-mote was that it was a gimmick, however after using it I can see a lot of potential in it. My problem with the Wii at this point is the lack of RPGs and online games. A lot of people complain about how too many of the games are ps2/gcn ports that doesnt bother me as I was heavy into MMOs and missed many of them when they first came out.

The complete lack of online play is whats bothering me the most. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a good single player game, like zelda, super paper mario ect. However after I beat the games they go back on the shelf and collect dust as have little reason to play them again. When looking for a Wii game that can hold my attention past the first runthru of single player they are no ware to be found. Nintendo doesn't seem to be doing anything about it they cut online out of the new metroid and flat out ignore questions about downloadable content for any games. 3d party games seem to be waiting for nintendo to setup a xbox live or playstation network type system before making any online games. Its not like online is some new gimmick function of the xbox its been around sense dreamcast on consoles and PCs well before that

Re:Cart, horse, etc (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946531)

Potential in the Wiimote? Are you joking?

The Wiimote essentially does this and nothing more:

Move thumb aiming to the wrist.
Replace button pressing with one or two different waggle movements.

That's it.

Congrats to Nintendo for making not so bright gamers think they are getting something actually innovative.

Re:Cart, horse, etc (1)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946651)

I admit some games thats all its used for (I'm lookig at you paper mario and Prince of Persia)

However the setup allows for the benefits of a game controller (comfortable to hold and use for long periods of time) with near the accuracy of a mouse. (you can actualy aim with it at a speed matching a mouse then the old whatever speed the analog stick can with classic controllers)

It can do far more then just replace a button with a wiggle

Re:Cart, horse, etc (1)

Udderdude (257795) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946693)

RPGs take serious time investments, exactly what Nintendo is trying to avoid.

Online games are by their nature very competitive and tend to be full of aggressive, generally mean people. They figure people would rather have friends over to play, rather than play against some 12-year old spewing profanities like you would see on XBox Live.

Re:Cart, horse, etc (4, Insightful)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946543)

why any of us enjoyed Twilight Princess as much as we did - the Wiimote was just a gimick, right??

I don't know if this was your point, but yes, for Z:TP, the Wiimote did seem bolted on. It simply replaced what would otherwise be button pushing, and really only checked for a "shake". It was a great game, of course, but didn't really exploit the Wiimote's abilities. (If they had made it so you have to "pull back" to load an arrow, then I might have swooned.)

Many games do seem to use the acceleromter stupidly, and in a way that looks artificial. But at the same time, I've seen some really good uses of it. Trauma Center uses it for a defibrilator and turning screws, which feels strangely realistic. Red Steel uses it for the blocking motion (which makes blocking more intuitive, since you instinctively raise your hands anyway) and for zooming in and slowing down time, which does feel like a genuine interface improvement. Rayman was also pretty creative in, for example, how you have to use the wiimote to "smack" bunnies or beat to a rhythm.

But even the pointer feature by itself tremendously expands the interface capabilities in games.

Re:Cart, horse, etc (1)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946671)

>The hardcore gamers STILL don't understand that the Wii, with all of its perceived warts (to them, anyway), is outselling EVERYONE. By the end of the summer there will be more Wiis out there than 360s (the next largest market). And Nintendo still can't keep these things in stock. All with "no good games" to buy.

And YOU dont understand that the total amount of sale doesnt mean shit if i dont fit into the target demographic.

Also, in the same line, linux guys dont understand that windows outsales everbdoy, and firefox guys dont understand that IE still outsells everybody, and MAC/PC, Fastfood/real food, ect ect.

And another argument: The WII shouldnt be compared to 360/PS3 at all. Price, hardware capabilites (SD, the same old GC hardware), storage medium, they all make it fit much mroe into the PS2/Xbox group. And in that group, it still will have quite some work to do until it can get the majority of share,

Re:Cart, horse, etc (1)

DFDumont (19326) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946895)

>And YOU dont understand that the total amount of sale doesnt mean shit if i dont fit into the target demographic.

And YOU clearly don't understand that Nintendo is a business out to make money. They do this by selling product, and one of the things that has kept many a game OUT of the hands of an entire demography is their parents! Since you're likely in that in between age, neither a child nor a parent, I'll enlighten you slightly:

Parents don't want their children spending endless hours in front of a television.
They want them exercising, and Wii provides a bridge to satisfy both needs.

Yes its not the fully immersive play we've been wanting. Yes it's a bit light on (what you call) good games, but you simply forget that parents buy games for their 12-year-olds, not vice-a-versa.

Dennis Dumont

Actually... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946829)

The Wii is NOT outselling everyone...

It is still being outsold by the PS2.

This is just silly (3, Insightful)

Borealis (84417) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946317)

Nintendo isn't the only one making games for the Wii. Not to mention that the point of any game system is to amuse and entertain, something that nintendo seems to have realized very well. If nintendo were to go out and forbid third party developers from making shooters or RPGs that'd be one thing, but frankly this is like accusing McDonalds of not catering to salad lovers when they introduce a new burger. If you don't like McDonald's salad offerings go buy a salad from some place else, and in the meantime, try that new triple bacon 4 cheese double quarter pounder and see if you like how it tastes.

Depends on who you ask... (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946331)

Is it such a bad thing that Nintendo are neglecting their roots?
That all depends on who you ask. For grandma who wants to play Big Brain Academy, no, it's not a bad thing. For video game enthusiasts? I'd say so.

Listen, Nintendo. I'm glad you made a console with a new controlling mechanism. I'm glad you're moving towards casual play. I love my Wii when I have parties or friends over. It's not a gamer's console, though. I don't want to sit around flailing the Wiimote for an hour straight. I don't want motion sensing forced into control schemes it has no place in. I want the long, deep storylines. I want the high-definition graphics.

The Wii is great in social conditions, but just for sitting around by yourself, the 360 and PS3 shine far brighter.

False Dichotomy (1)

Merusdraconis (730732) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946633)

The split between 'casual' and 'hardcore' has never really sat right with me. I don't see why there is a split, to be honest, and I'm having some trouble working out exactly where the line between casual and hardcore is supposed to be. Is it time spent? People spend hours, hours, playing Bejeweled. Is it complexity? Because World of Warcraft is not particularly complex. (Oh sure, there are interlocking crafting systems and whatnot, but you don't need to spend any time with them.)

I suspect that what makes a game 'hardcore' is how much it expects the players can already do. Development budgets are stretched thin as it is, so you don't see many developers put concepts for advanced players to grasp once they've got the basics under control. Wii Sports doesn't have a mode where you make the tennis player run around by itself. And many games skip those formalities and expect you to be able to master concepts pretty quickly, and don't spend much time making gameplay out of running and shooting at the same time, or something similarly trivial for the hardcore player.

The solutions seem obvious: either flatten the curve of triviality by forging a path to a new genre (no-one accuses the Katamari games of being casual, but they're pretty shallow) or find ways to increase the complexity of the game just for the hardcore (this can backfire, as the hardcore as fairly likely to hem themselves in and then complain that the game is too easy, as with Final Fantasy XII).

Relics? (2, Insightful)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946341)

So, Nintendo wants to try something REALLY new with this machine of theirs, outside of the usual multiple-choice stories with little educations of social value of most console developers, and this article slams them for that. These reviewers want more progress of the arts, and not so much progress of the _useful_ arts. Fine. But calling the new Mario/Zelda/Metroid games relics, as if they're just a rehash? I'd highly disagree with that - the new Zelda games, for instance, on the DS and Wii, just with the control alone have very much changed the very feel of the games. Not that each aren't sequels, but the rate of change over previous sequels is relatively huge in this generation, and in every case I've seen and played has been an unusual improvement for what I want out of pure artistic/storytelling/interactive gaming.

Yes, we're not seeing many new protagonists this first generation of first party games from Nintendo for the Wii. Nintendo is playing it safe in their newly reformed gaming environment. So, they gauge the response to this first generation, and try to maximize the latent demand for existing worlds of imagination before making new ones... I definitely understand that process. That means they aren't gamblers going for broke, they wait until there's standing capitol for a venture before letting the allotment of risk increase. They also get to spend more time in development in play testing and improvement this way... which has certainly played out well for the end result, from what I've played so far.

Want to call Zelda, Mario, Metroid relics? That's fine. It's ad-hoc, but a valid opinion if you want to always prefer newly created worlds. But give them a chance if you ever want to try some of the most finely refined mix of new gameplay elements and old out there. I still appreciate such 'relics'.

Ryan Fenton

maybe they just want to get the board out there. (4, Insightful)

bombastinator (812664) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946349)

I have to say I disagree with the writer's conclusion here.

Nintendo is "oriented" in the same direction all companies are orientated: making the bucks. To do that they have to have a product people prefer over that of the competition, and right now they've got one.

Nintendo discovered itself with a game player capable of things other players could not previously do. If you take away the new control interfaces however the Wii has very little on the playstation 2 let alone the playstation 3.

Nintendo may realize that they have to capitalize on these advantages, and are attempting to do so. XBOX and Playstation six axis game controllers are already in development. The Wii could lose it's spec ial charms at any time. What they have at the moment is the opportunity to get a jump on the competition with new interface formats and new game styles. We may be seeing a frantic research project on the part of Nintendo to find a way to get a lock on the "new thing" while they still have exclusive access.

A surf or skateboard game would seem to be very preferable over a yoga game, but they don't have to make one. They just have to get the board into the marketplace before microsoft. I'm sure the yoga game was a lot quicker to write. Where they make the money is not by making a semi-popular game with a controller that is probably a wash profit wise. They make it when "Tony Hawke" comes out for their patented controller and everyone's got to buy a Wii so they can play it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the company comes out with yet more weird controllers. Throw it at the wall and see what sticks, because if something does they have it all to themselves.

I'm sure the yoga game was a lot quicker to write. It wouldn't surprise me if the company comes out with yet more weird controllers. Throw it at the wall and see what sticks, because if something does they have it all to themselves.

Re:maybe they just want to get the board out there (1)

bombastinator (812664) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946369)

*argh editing error. Is there anyway to remove that last paragraph? it's just a duplication*

If I was a troll ... (1, Flamebait)

Tx (96709) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946357)

"Where the Wii Fits In"

I'd love to tell you exactly where the Wii fits, but this is a family show ;).

Nintendo (3, Interesting)

dunezone (899268) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946425)

The problem with Nintendo was that after SNES they held the same position in development. The n64 was an amazing system but compare it to the play station, it wasn't moving forward in "NEW" technology and im talking the cdrom. The same thing happened with the game cube also just wasn't up to par to what the consumer was looking for.

These days were looking for a game console that can do more then just play games. Nintendo blew that opportunity the last generation. This generation the new consoles go online, can browse the web, download games, listen to music, but thats all been done. Nintendo on the other hand is bringing something to the table that no one else has and thats actually trying to make you feel like your part of the game.

Will it work out for Nintendo in the end? I don't know, I own a Wii and I haven't played it in weeks. I own a 360 and I play that almost everyday. If anything Nintendo is holding to the past with its slow delivery. Online play should have worked out of the box on the first day, the lack of launch titles other then Zelda just reminded me of the n64 and game cube era again, and their online system is pretty lame right now.

As for Nintendo neglecting their roots, they never will neglect their roots but they also know that hanging on to their roots will sink their ship back into third once again. And from my last check they are about to take the crown back shortly. So I guess their doing something right.

Re:Nintendo (0, Redundant)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946817)

Well, right now in my house there are 4 devices that can play DVD (3 PCs and a DVD player), but one you can do sports with (wiimote). When I first got it I lost sensation of my right arm and started using the left one until that was gone too. None of my DVD players did that.

(It was from Wii Tennis, not masturbation, so there go all the replies)

Not abandoning, but just branching out (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946431)

Look at their previous 2 home console releases: the n64 and gamecube. There are a couple of other gems, but lets face it almost all the "have to own" games on those consoles were either Mario-related, Zelda, or Metroid. And now compare that to say the playstation/playstation 2 and you see there is definately a lot of room to grow. A new zelda game was just released for the Wii, a new one is out for the DS in Japan and should be elsewhere before year's end, a new Mario is being planned for the Wii etc. Doesn't exactly sound like "abandoning" but for the first time in a long time, Nintendo has the chance to go out and do a lot more with the Wii and DS then they had the capability/finances to do before. It's a good thing IMO

Getting Tired Huh... (1)

I'll Provide The War (1045190) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946439)

Mario and Zelda are relics of the past


I suppose that is why at E3 they demonstrated Mario Platformer, Mario Fighter, Mario Karts and Mario Olympics and earlier this year released Mario Party, Mario RPG, Mario Soccer and 2 Zelda games(one for Wii and one for DS).

An alternative to FPS/twitchers (2, Informative)

humankind (704050) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946443)

I welcome this new direction. The last console I purchased was a N64, and to be honest, I really haven't seen anything new or innovative since then in terms of software. Games like Waverace and Super Mario World were brilliant, and the first person shooters just bore me now. The Wii has re energized my interest in console gaming, but now there's another problem: finding one. After all this time, they still can't keep them in stock and that's frustrating.

Creating a new market (4, Insightful)

grapeape (137008) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946445)

I dont see this as abandoning the past as much as I do widening the future. Mario, Metroid and Zelda are all there or coming soon, Nintendo has simply expanded its horizons to attract a new audience. The Wii has created a buzz that hasnt been seen in the home gaming market since the Atari 2600, its become the cool thing to have for families, its very social and its accessable to anyone at any skill level. I had my in-laws who have trouble operating their dvd player participating in a game of Wii sports last night, if they can figure it out anyone can. Wii fit and Brain Training are perfect for them as well. The Wii is carving out a market that ensures it survival and expands the base of gamers across the board.

There is no doubt in my mind that the "Winner" in terms of product sold will be the Wii, however the important number for "traditional gamers" will be who comes in second. Either the 360 or ps3 could reach ps2 type sales numbers and still come in second. The "traditional gamers" are still there and are still a huge market to abandon them would be stupid, even Nintendo is aware of that.

Lots of sour grapes going around in game writing (5, Insightful)

rhizome (115711) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946863)

I don't want to get into any elitist intellectualizing about this, but there are a lot of hardcore gamers who have ignored Nintendo for a long time as a kiddie console. These gamers have grown up on the standard games that have become the 360 and PS3's stock in trade: mass market sports and Michael Bay action.

I think Nintendo has done a very smart thing by leaving Sony and MS alone to play out the tragedy we've seen many times before (e.g. ATI vs. NVidia). Trying to win a 3-way graphics battle is a losing proposition, so what other direction can video gaming go in? How about instead of increasing the number of pixel shaders or whatever, increase the ways that people can control a game? In the same way that we have not seen what the PS3 is capable of with its nine graphics cores and blah blah blah, we have not seen the limits of what the Wii control scheme offers.

So now we have a lot of gamers who grew up on the PS2 who now have become site writers and game reviewers, and they just can not make sense of the Wii's appeal. They start to use epithets like Grandparents and throw a giggly aside at "Cookin' Mama" about how it's kind of cool but what's the point? The Wii has caused tremendous congnitive dissonance in the gaming industry and it just so happens that a lot of loud people are writing about it.

The Wii is as significant a transition as the move to D-button gamepad controllers (Nintendo again), and now all of these game writers who are dependent on their DualShock style controllers are pissed that FIFA 08 doesn't come out for months and months so they turn their frustration to the console that *is* getting popular and playable games throughout its launch honeymoon. PS3 and 360 people are stuck waiting for the next wave and convincing themselves they like to using motion sense mode in Motorstorm.

The horror (5, Insightful)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946469)

A market where each company is pursing a somewhat different customer base is better for consumers and better for the companies involved.

Which would you rather have, a choice between three consoles who are all somewhat different, each catering to a different set of gamers, or a market where all three console manufacturers shipped boxes that were essentially identical and catered to only a narrow market?

Whining about the Wii being too casual is like whining about how Cheerios don't taste like Frosted Flakes. If you don't like the Cheerios, just buy the fucking Frosted Flakes!

The plan is simple actually.. (2, Insightful)

SuperCharlie (1068072) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946489)

Stay out of the way of MS and Sony's schlong war and whatever theyre doing, do something different. Oh yea.. and laugh all the way to the bank as they scoop up the 98% of everyone who isnt a hardcore gamer.

Re:The plan is simple actually.. (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946597)

Yup, regardless of what one may think about Nintendo's games, its hard to deny that whoever thought up their recent business plans is a genius.

ppl r dumb re marketing (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946513)

Mario, Metroid, and Zelda are like big budget films that everyone anticipates and waits in line to see, like the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars films. Everyone loves these games, not just "hard core gamers".

The idea of a "hard core gamer" annoys me to no end. I suppose that people like the "hard core" stereotype do exist, but even someone who merely likes video games but doesn't devote their entire life and entertainment budget to gaming pretty much can get into these games and enjoy them. The so-called hard core gamer just is willing to devote that much time into playing every major release, find every secret, and practice until they've achieved mastery over as much as the game as their skill level can afford them. Many normal gamers enjoy "hard core gamer" titles, but just don't bother unlocking everything or honing their skill at the game until they become a god at it. They beat it once on Easy or Normal, enjoy what it offers, and don't fret over finding every last secret.

Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and other "casual gamer" titles have broad appeal to everyone, not just people who have 9 hours to sit through a colossal blockbuster exteneded edition trilogy marathon viewing. Think of them more like popular YouTube clips. They take less than ten minutes of your time, you enjoy them for what they are, despite not having a huge budget or epic storyline, and then you move on with your life. If they're really catchy, you go back again and again for more laughs when the mood strikes.

Finding a new audience is risky (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946523)

While you are searching for a new audience you may forget to keep the old one with you, and end up not finding that new audience after all.

The simple fact is that electronic gaming has far wider frontiers then is usually reported by the "hardcore" gaming press (Consoles and PC).

I know a girl that spends a lot of time gaming online. MMO's? FPS? No, a puzzle site with word puzzles. There is a whole forum around were they exchange new sites, discuss solutions etc etc. Very much like you would find around say the various ID engines even includng people building their own puzzles and sharing them.

BUT you will not find them at E3 or reviewed at any "regular" gaming site.

Tapping into this different audience may be what Nintendo is trying to do. Perhaps they just realize they cannot compete with the big boys for "harcore" games and know that they must try something different.

OR maybe, just maybe, Nintendo is being really clever here. Perhaps they want to have BOTH markets. Why exactly should the Wii be limited to only "hardcore" or "casual" games?

The PC has hardcore games off all sorts AND you can play all those thousands of flash games on it. For every PC used as a flightsim or a FPS or MMO there is a puzzle pirates PC.

If you ever hear someone talk about consoles being bigger then PC's in gaming, you know you are talking to a snob. Microsofts Solitaire IS a computer game and no conolse in the world can match those sales figures. Or for that matter phone sales.

I think Nintendo is just releasing games it thinks might make a profit. Some of them happen to be games that we do not usually see in 'hardcore' gaming circles. However they have always been around (Chess games for instance on various consoles, including Nintendo's)

So basically nothing new. Business as usuall except some idiot notices other games selling and thinks it is the revolution. It ain't.

Ironic (2)

DerekLyons (302214) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946549)

It's amusing that for all the Slashdot Hivemind complains about the big game companies and their endless sequels... Folks can't seem to wait for the latest installment of the Zelda or Mario franchises.

What is this "ignoring hardcore" crap? (3, Interesting)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946609)

Why does every article think that when Nintendo's hyping their "practical game" type stuff, it automatically means they'll never make another Mario game ever again? I guess the authors don't know about the word "expand" because this is what Nintendo is doing. Nintendo's even said it themselves [nwsource.com] (scroll down to the question about market share). Or to put it in MS terms (maybe these marketing-heads will understand it now), "The Wii is introducing a paradigm shift, thus unilaterally expanding the user experience to new high growth areas in untapped markets." I mean, who can't understand that?!

Wii brings back the fun to gaming... (4, Insightful)

axiomjunglist (966857) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946677)

I'm sure a vast majority of the crowd here wasn't around for the heydey of the arcade. I'm not talking about Street Fighter II era, I'm talking about the oldschool games that munched quarters like crazy like Frogger or the original Mario Bros (not Super). You didn't need to know 9 controller/button combos to play efficiently. You could simply walk up and play. The game-play got more difficult as you progressed but the basic principal was that anybody could play, and it didn't take a lot of frustration trying to learn. Fast forward to now. I'm not a Nintendo fanboy by any means, but I do know when I'm having fun. Fun is a relative word, and for some people having fun is memorizing the zillions of button combinations & intense story-line required to play some games on other systems. For the rest of us that just want to pick up a game and simply enjoy it the Wii has amazing allure, and will continue to grow in its fan-base. No wonder people over 30 are buying it in droves...they're of the few that remember the simple (but fun) days of the arcade.

seems like I've heard this somewhere before (1)

rjejr (921275) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946735)

I keep reading all these Wii stories about how Nintendo is abandoning the "hardcore gamer" (though I still haven't read an adequate definition of who/what that is) but I can't help but think these anti-Wii/Nintendo/DS people are the same ones who were bashing Lucas over the newer Star Wars trilogy. All their comments go something like this - When I was 10 years old Star Wars/Nintendo was so great but now that I'm 40 all these new Star Wars movies/Nintendo products really suck ass I can't believe how George Lucas/Nintendo have RAPED my childhood by putting out such great products for me when I was a 10 years old but now that I'm 40 all their new products suck ass because they are for kids but I'm 40 now and I want George Lucas/Nintendo to make stuff for me that I like now that is exactly the same as the stuff they made for me when I was 10. I'm sure it's not a 100% overlap of those people, but I bet it's dam close. Just like the same people who knock the Wii for nothing but Zelda/Mario/Metroid games can't wait for Halo3/MSG4/GTA4/Maddenadinfinitum. I hate (obviously) stupid people.

Nintendo should apologize. (0)

cabazorro (601004) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946759)

Nintendo should apologize for the countless golden afternoon's children wasted like human pods in the matrix of suburbia. Games should be quickly to learn easy to drop at any time not demanding hours of play to build points and skill for the next level. Video games should follow the sitcom format and bing played in 20 min sessions...no more.

"but Mario and Zelda are relics of the past" (1)

thermal_7 (929308) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946769)

Hardcore folks don't like to admit it, but Mario and Zelda are relics of the past. It's become quite clear that Nintendo is losing interest in remaking the same old games over and over.

I'm assuming this refers to the classic Mario and Zelda type games, since when you consider all the various shoot offs (Mario [insert sport name here], etc.) the rate is definitely increasing. However, even when you just look at the more classic Mario and Zelda formula games, there is no sign that they are going away. You have..
  • Zelda: The Twilight Princess (2006, Wii, GC)
  • Zelda: The Phantom Hourglass (2007, DS)
  • Super Mario Galaxy (2007, Wii)
  • Super Paper Mario (2007, Wii)
  • New Super Mario Bros (2006, DS)
Sure Nintendo is diversifying, but there is no sign that they are giving up their beloved franchises.

On the other hand, Miyamoto did say [eurogamer.net] "This will be, without a doubt, the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form", but it is not like they are going to ditch it completely.

Wii = meh? Not so fast... (2, Interesting)

amrust (686727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946797)

I remember when the Wii was announced, I was very skeptical. The "motion sensitive" controller... who would really think that's fun, after the novelty of the gimmick wears off.

Flash cut to today: I recently picked up a used copy of Warioware Twisted, for my aging GBA. The motion sensitive games are VERY addictive. So now as a result, I'm re-thinking my anti-Wii stance. I'm actually consider buying one, despite the fact I also have a new PS3.

That's how innovative the Wii is. The games will follow, just give it time.

Free hits (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19946873)

1. Post controversial article on Slashdot disagreeing with popular opinion 2. Get hits 3. Profit

Hardcore cry babies (1)

sysadmintech (704387) | more than 6 years ago | (#19946901)

I just read an article that said that hardcore gamers were crying that the 40-50 hours of Twilight Princess was too long. It blamed their attention spans. At the same time they complained about lack of "replay value" due to lack of online multi-player on the Wii. As Miyamoto said at E3, why would anyone, especially game designers, listen to anything these hardcore fan boys have to say. I doubt there are any gamers saying these things, just Sony and MS marketing execs trying to cover up that they were wrong.
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