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Seagate to Drop IDE Drives by Year End

samzenpus posted more than 6 years ago | from the you-are-finished dept.

Data Storage 566

ianare writes "Seagate plans to cease manufacturing IDE hard drives by the end of the year and will focus exclusively on SATA-based products. Seagate is the first major hard drive manufacturer to announce such plans, though others will likely follow suit. That's not to say support for the 21-year-old PATA standard is going to vanish overnight; similar to how ISA slots were available long after most of us had ditched our old ISA peripherals."

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566 comments

Gone missing? (4, Funny)

Burdell (228580) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991741)

Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
I didn't know Slashdot was stored on IDE drives!

What about osdev? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19991829)

I am currently writing a kernel that will depend on IDE (ATA, now called parallel ATA) for hard disk drive access. I will be using pio mode 0 (around since ATA "Advanced Technology Attachment" cam from the IBM AT) for the best compatibility with both old and new i386 compatible machines. What does this mean for kernel programmers doing small projects to learn? How much hard is Serial ATA to use from the kernel's perspective? Is it backwards compatible with the old PATA?

- The captcha is "faceted."

Re:What about osdev? (5, Interesting)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991969)

As a consumer, I'd rather get rid of the legacy shit (ATA, ps2 keyboards, bios, DOS/Windows :-). But for hardware hacking/os writing, a USB stack, firewire stack, etc are more work (and don't provide the immediate feedback like 100 lines of assembly to read the raw keystrokes).

You an still have fun with an ARM breadboard kit, though :-)

PS2 keyboards (3, Funny)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992447)

You can have my Model M keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead fingers....

Re:PS2 keyboards (1)

Khaed (544779) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992505)

Agreed. I see no reason to drop PS/2 just to suck up my USB spots. I know I could get a hub -- but why, when there's already an interface and I have a sturdy keyboard and mouse?

Re:What about osdev? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992007)

If I remember correctly, SATA does not have a standard interface for kernels to use but many controller vendors follow Intel's AHCI interface that is software compatible with standard PCI bus master IDE controllers.

Re:What about osdev? (1)

thegnu (557446) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992493)

If I remember correctly, SATA does not have a standard interface
Out of curiosity, did IDE have a standard interface when it started, or did everyone adopt the most popular one? I'm guessing that the field was less of a cluster[pillowfight] back then, but it still seems like there'd be no reason for it to be any different than it is now... IA64, AMD64, for one example. SATA's just a wee baby yet. It'll standardize, becuase it would be a big absurd pile of crap if it didn't. And big stupid piles of crap are bad for business, unless of course they're called Windows.

(I must be given props for delaying the Windows-bashing for so very long)

Re:What about osdev? (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992309)

If it does turn out to be an issue, you could always play around in a virtual machine. I very strongly doubt VM support for IDE is going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

Re:What about osdev? (2, Informative)

yvajj (970228) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992339)


Depending on how you're written your IDE code, it should work on most SATA controllers + drive, since most SATA controllers also operate in compatability mode.

I recently tested my IDE driver on a SATA controller + drive and it worked without a problem.

You'd think they'd know better (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19991749)

Dropping hard drives can really damage them.

Re:You'd think they'd know better (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19991917)

i lol'd someone mod parent up

MOD PARENT UP LAME PUN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19991919)

*ba-doom* *crash*

kthx

Re:You'd think they'd know better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992127)

I lol'd, someone mod myself up...

Re:You'd think they'd know better (2, Funny)

Mike89 (1006497) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992449)

Lucky the Seagate consumer drives have a five-year warranty ;)

Re:You'd think they'd know better (0)

thegnu (557446) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992519)

Lucky the Seagate consumer drives have a five-year warranty ;)
and employees get six. ---joke
                                                        ^
                                                        |
                                                      joke

You really need a monospaced font to get the full effect of this.

Does it really matter? (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991767)

I mean, I have to go out of my way already to get a board that "supports" PATA. Hell, the last board I bought with PATA ports WOULDN't BOOT them... BY DESIGN. Even then, you'll get some RAID capability on the SATA ports, but not PATA.

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991811)

There are still a lot of people out there with older computers you know. My mobo doesn't even have SATA ports, let alone no or poor IDE support.

(That said, I have a PCI SATA controller and two SATA drives, so...)

Re:Does it really matter? (0, Troll)

Mikachu (972457) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991827)

Excuse me, but my primary computer is still an Athlon XP 2600+, with only IDE slots. I'd have to install a PCI card, which I could do, but I'd prefer not to go out and buy one. It's not unexpected that they would discontinue the manufacturing of IDE drives; I've thought the master and slave system felt outdated since I first learned about it at the age of 6 (I'm 16, give me a break). My point, though, is that IDE is far from dead. For some people, it does matter.

Also, you can get RAID compatibility with PATA. I have a board that has it onboard.

Re:Does it really matter? (5, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991899)

The Amish still use horses and buggies and don't want anything to do with those new-fangled horseless carriages. Your point is? Technology moves ahead. Stay with your system, or upgrade. But no one will stop progress because you complain.

Re:Does it really matter? (4, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991925)

no one will stop progress because you complain.
On the contrary, PATA drives will certainly continue to be made if people continue to buy them.

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

PenguSven (988769) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992077)

How can you buy what they aren't making/selling? You monkeys all enjoy your old PATA drives. I'm sure your copy of DOS 6.2 with BIOS v.912.34.110, DIN keyboard and Serial mouse will work wonders. for the rest of us, we can accept that technology progresses (SATA, EFI, USB/Firewire, Bluetooth, but obviously nothing coming from Redmond) and enjoy the advantages those progressions bring.

Re:Does it really matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992281)

"...we can accept..."

"we"? Whether I agree with you or not, YOU don't speak for me, dope..

Re:Does it really matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992341)

sez you. I say he does speak for you, so just stfu, zitbrain.

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

voss (52565) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991991)

I just bought an HP A6110N which is an X2 4400 system. I have my SATA booting windows and I installed a 120gb IDE drive from my old system booting linux switchable in bios. It only has 1 PATA port so its primarily for legacy. I suspect a number of manufacturers will keep an ide port for legacy purposes at least on towers.

 

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

Nazlfrag (1035012) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992245)

Reminds me of that lonely ISA port MB makers sometimes still slap on at the end of the PCIe/AGP/PCI slots. It's as quaint as those RS232 ports they have next to the 4 USB connectors. Yeah, I predict there will be a lonely IDE port probably near the floppy port just for old times sake, probably until they ditch the floppy port (ie. no time soon)

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

tdelaney (458893) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992299)

The motherboard I just bought for my server (DG33TL - bearlake) has no motherboad port. It's got the solder points, but no port.

I haven't put a floppy into a new machine for over 2 years. And I don't own a USB floppy drive either.

The floppy is finally going away.

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992513)

Also, you can get RAID compatibility with PATA. I have a board that has it onboard.

I have bunches of perfectly good PATA RAID cards sitting around that I just haven't gotten around to (read: afford) buying drives for and loading into systems. Guess I should start snapping up whatever ones I can find.

I'm a bit bummed by the news. SATA is nice, but it's really only compatible with systems and equipment made in the past ~3 years. There's a LOT of hardware around that's older than that, and frankly I think that most people are getting to the point where they're getting sick of the upgrade treadmill. It's going to be around for a while.

Re:Does it really matter? (5, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991843)

Exactly. Good riddance. It's not as though these things are in high demand. Sure some company will keep on producing them for people that are into legacy hardware, but I fully expected that the main manufacturers (Seagate, Maxtor, WD, et al) would stop producing these things eventually.

Re:Does it really matter? (1)

Captain Sarcastic (109765) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992471)

I hate to say it, but you're probably right (my handle notwithstanding).

Most of the non-Slashdot crowd don't swap out motherboards - they buy ready-made systems that already have SATA-compliant motherboards, and will use CD-NET to swap their TaxCut files/Quicken files/MP3's/pron collections from their old machine to the new one, and then put the old machine as garage-sale fodder.

It strikes me as rather wasteful... but I don't see much alternative.

Yes. Re:Does it really matter? (1)

twitter (104583) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992527)

There are a number of ways that this is annoying. It's wasteful, painful and not really justified by a technical improvement.

SATA is right up there with ACPI for buggy implementation. For free software users, this is not good news but it's right in time for the Vista upgrade train.

It's also bad news for people who just want to keep using the drives they own. I've got older drives that do just fine as boot devices. I'd rather retire them for solid state devices than the same old mechanical stuff with a different plug.

The speeds might be better, but it's not SCSI class and you could get 20x that if you used a parallel cable.

Good (5, Interesting)

Espectr0 (577637) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991785)

At the least, this will drive the price of SATA drive down. Maybe it will be the same like RAM, where DDR2 is actually cheaper than the old DDR memory standard.

Re:Good (2, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991891)

All of us with DDR RAM are pretty bitter about that. I was pretty bitter about a year ago when I tried to buy SDRAM. That stuff is expensive. Still, I can hope that we can go back to the good old days (march 2001???) when SDRAM was $CDN 30 for 512 megs. That was when RAM was the cheapest it has ever been, at least considering how much you could do with 512 MB back then. Now that's that won't even get you the shiny desktop on windows vista.

Oh fuck. (3, Interesting)

r00t (33219) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991795)

What will I do when my drive dies again?

I happen to like my computer. Being fanless and well-built, it is quite reliable except for the damn hard drive.

Re:Oh fuck. (0, Troll)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991837)

You can then buy a non-seagate(read: crappy) hard disk from any other manufacturers.

I honestly think this is a good move. I mean, if you cant get an Parallel ATA Disk anymore, just get a SATA controller. You can keep your computer, fanless or otherwise.

Not all computers have a free slot (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991945)

I mean, if you cant get an Parallel ATA Disk anymore, just get a SATA controller.
So should I remove my TV input card, my NIC, or my sound card to make room? And will companies continue to make SATA controllers after most PCI slot product lines have been replaced with PCI-e or USB 2.0 equivalents? And how do I reinstall an operating system if the setup program doesn't recognize SATA?

Re:Not all computers have a free slot (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992075)

So should I remove my TV input card, my NIC, or my sound card to make room?

If you don't have a spare slot, yes, that's a problem.

And will companies continue to make SATA controllers after most PCI slot product lines have been replaced with PCI-e or USB 2.0 equivalents?

That's probably aways down the line. A quick survey shows PCI slots still outnumber PCI-e even on the highest-end mobos. (Though both seem to be in vanishingly small numbers.)

And how do I reinstall an operating system if the setup program doesn't recognize SATA?

If you're referring to Windows, that's what pressing F6 during the start of the textmode setup is for (I suspect you still have a floppy connected, though I could easily be wrong), or you can use nLite to slipstream your SATA drivers. Both solutions will work. If you're talking Linux, it shouldn't be a big issue to get a later revision that supports it.

Look, it's going to be inconvenient if you don't have SATA ports on your motherboard. (As I said in a couple other posts, I'm in that boat too. Though I did have a spare PCI slot.) But you can't reasonably expect companies to support legacy technology forever. It does cost them money to support the two standards, and I doubt they'll lose many sales because of this.

Re:Not all computers have a free slot (1)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992247)

PCI slots are far from dead, although my year-and-a-half-old NF4 SLi 939 motherboard that cost me $110 has 5 PCIe slots (2 x16, 3 x1) and only two PCI slots. Boards don't have four or five slots like they used to back in the late '90s through about 2005, but most have at least a couple if they're not a uATX or ITX board. Even the little guys generally have one PCI slot. And don't forget FireWire or USB 2.0- you can attach disks via FireWire and disks, tuners, NICs, and such over USB, as long as you don't have a 5+-year-old machine with USB 1.1 ports.

By the way, only recently did anything PCIe x1 and any SATA optical drives less than a hundred clams start to show up. GPUs had been PCIe x16 for a while, but very little besides larger RAID cards had been PCIe except for GPUs. Even now most NICs and tuners are PCI. Now five years from now PCI might be rare, but it's like parallel and serial ports and laptop floppy drives today. Many computers lack them now, but there's not been much made in years that use them, let alone use *only* them. By the time 2012 gets here, I'm sure that the nice fanless machine will probably have been replaced with something that supports SATA and PCIe (probably 2.x of not 3.0.)

Re:Not all computers have a free slot (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992293)

And how do I reinstall an operating system if the setup program doesn't recognize SATA?

If you're referring to Windows, that's what pressing F6 during the start of the textmode setup is for (I suspect you still have a floppy connected, though I could easily be wrong), or you can use nLite to slipstream your SATA drivers. Both solutions will work. If you're talking Linux, it shouldn't be a big issue to get a later revision that supports it.

Look, it's going to be inconvenient if you don't have SATA ports on your motherboard. (As I said in a couple other posts, I'm in that boat too. Though I did have a spare PCI slot.) But you can't reasonably expect companies to support legacy technology forever. It does cost them money to support the two standards, and I doubt they'll lose many sales because of this.

I have a Windows XP SP2 disc, and it recognized my SATA controller and drive without any problems.

Re:Not all computers have a free slot (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992333)

Whether it does or not depends on how your SATA controller presents itself. Does your motherboard have integrated SATA, or are you using an external controller?

Re:Oh fuck. (2, Informative)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991849)

You can get a PCI controller card for $30 or so. I have two SATA drives, and most of my computer (including motherboard) is 5 years old, just as SATA was hitting the market, so I don't have integrated support.

It's not ideal, but it works plenty well enough.

Re:Oh fuck. (2, Funny)

m4k3r (777443) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991877)

Perhaps your hard drives are overheating ? Installing a fan may help :p

Re:Oh fuck. (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992151)

Please note, that this is more than just a joke. I've made a lot of "silent" machines over the years (I was a quiet computer consultant for a while), and it's relatively easy to quiet a CPU or PSU safely. Most CPU's have thermal controls that will let you run more or less fanless, and with PSU's you just overbuy and underdraw.

But the Hard Drive is always the problem. HDD's don't generally have thermal protections, and the kinds of problems you're likely to see with hard drives are the ones that show up six months to one year after setting up the machine. They also can get quite hot inside without triggering external heat alarms.

Run your machine for a few hours in its normally concealed environment. Then touch your Hard Drive. If it's warm enough that leaving your fingers on indefinitely would cause mild discomfort from heat, you need to add protections. I'd generally recommend a shielded air tunnel from your HDD, up over your CPU, and out your PSU, with a pair of undervolted lo-flow panaflo's [directron.com] driving the configuration. YMMV.

The best stuff for this, if you happen to not know, is probably still the forums at Silent Pc Review [silentpcreview.com].

Good luck! By the way, the slower Maxtor FDB's are only a hair louder than the Seagate Barracudas, but are a lot cheaper and more widely available.

Re:Oh fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992071)

Dear r00t,

If your hard drive fails, how about replacing it with another one? Just a thought. There ARE other hard disk manufacturers besides Seagate. And there are SATA extension cards, USB hard, Firewire hard disks, Flash disks etc. so you can friggin' REPLACE YOUR FAILED HARDWARE if neccessary. If you really, really need replacement for Seagate PATA disk, buy them now, store and replace when neccessary. And when you're feeling hungry, go eat something. Put something warm on, it's a chilly day, my child.

Uses for such a PC (1)

Cryacin (657549) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992207)

1. Giant novelty paperweight
2. Boat Anchor
3. Museum Centerpiece
4. Messy room filler
5. Novelty hamster/bird coffin

Didn't you know that whatever you buy is obsolete within 30 seconds of buying it?

works fine (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992289)

My 450 MHz CPU is overkill for slashdot.

I don't even have a moving part for the power switch. I own a piece of history: the Mac G4 Cube.

what? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19991805)

People don't use ISA peripherals anymore? What am I gonna do with my kickin' Sound Blaster 16 then?? I can't just let that baby go to waste!!

but the motherboards! (5, Insightful)

Doppler00 (534739) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991857)

Poor motherboard manufactures still have to support all the existing legacy devices, even though new devices uses new I/O standards. I always find it amusing to see serial, parallel ports, and floppy connectors on new motherboards. Of course, until DVD drive manufacturers switch to SATA, we'll still see IDE connectors on mothboards. Do the SATA controllers really cost that much more?

Re:but the motherboards! (2, Insightful)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991895)

Floppy drives are still almost essential if you want to install Windows XP or earlier on a computer with a RAID or other controller card.

It's an unfortunate truth.

Re:but the motherboards! (2, Insightful)

mmxsaro (187943) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991963)

This is true, yes, but you can always slipstream your controller drivers into a Windows XP CD without much trouble (that is, if you have another computer nearby to perform such a task) to completely bypass the use of a floppy.

Re:but the motherboards! (2, Informative)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992107)

This CAN take some effort though. I recently did this, slipstreaming (1) my SATA drivers, (2) Service Pack 2, and (3) all the hotfixes since SP2 into my XP CD, and I burned two or three coasters before getting it right. For instance, the first time I also tried to set up a semi-automatic install; but turns out this doesn't interact well with slipstreaming storage drivers like that. I forget what I screwed up after that.

All-in-all it took rather longer than it would have to just do it normally, and I coastered CDs in the process.

Re:but the motherboards! (1)

mmxsaro (187943) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991923)

There are already DVD/DVD-RW units out there that are SATA-based. I know for a fact that Dell has been shipping all their computers without IDE connectors on motherboards for the past 6 months (floppy drive excluded). It's about time.

Re:but the motherboards! (5, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991957)

I remember about a year back reading about state of the art motherboards that got rid of all this crap we don't need. I seriously think that more manufacturers should do this. I have no use for a serial, parallel, ps2, floppy connectors, IDE connectors, and all the other legacy junk they insist on putting on motherboards. Every one of those ports takes away 1 (or several in the case of parallel/ide) ports that could be something useful, such as USB, FireWire, SATA, or something that people will actually use. If people want to hook up ancient hardware, let them use PCI adapter cards and port replecators.

How nice for you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992189)

But those of us who use computers beyond the confines of gaming and parent's basement often use serial ports and parallel ports and all the other useless legacy junk you so 1337ly disdain.

Re:but the motherboards! (2, Interesting)

karnal (22275) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992201)

Serial ports are useful. Not so much in the home, but they're still useful.

Of course, a little USB-Serial dongle solved that issue for me when I had a thinkpad t42 at work a while ago...

Serial ports (1)

IvyKing (732111) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992423)

There are a couple of areas where a USB serial port can not replace a "real" serial port. One is the 1PPS signal from a GPS receiver for timekeeping. Admittedly an esoteric example....


Sun still uses serial ports on their Sparc workstations (e.g. Ultra 25 & 45) as one is used as the console port when running headless.


One final note - serial ports are still useful for connecting to embedded devices as the protocol can be much simpler than USB. Or for that matter, USRobotics Courier modems (the T-1 connection for my worksite is administered remotely using a couple of Courier modems).

Re:but the motherboards! (2, Interesting)

Andrew_T366 (759304) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992257)

I don't know about you, but I'd MUCH rather have parallel, serial, PS/2, and IDE connectors--which are backwards-compatible with most everything and do what they are meant to do well--than a half-dozen more USB or FireWire ports that don't even correspond to any devices that I personally use.

USB keyboards require special drivers and offer no interface-speed advantages unless you type at superhuman speeds.

Re:but the motherboards! (4, Funny)

lpontiac (173839) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992319)

USB keyboards require special drivers

Did you miss the Microsoft to Drop Windows 95 by Year End article back in 2001? :)

Re:but the motherboards! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992283)

I remember about a year back reading about state of the art motherboards that got rid of all this crap we don't need. I seriously think that more manufacturers should do this. I have no use for a serial, parallel, ps2, floppy connectors, IDE connectors, and all the other legacy junk they insist on putting on motherboards.

Many of us do have a need for all that "legacy junk". There is an enormous installed base of products, especially in the scientific/technical/medical field, that use those legacy interfaces.

At home, I have a 10-year old HP laser printer (it's from the era when HP made solid, rugged printers). It works great, and has parallel & serial interface. Does a parallel port on your new PC somehow offend you? The lack of a parallel port definitely offends me.

At my office there is a very big plotter used for printing very large technical drawings. It uses a serial port (only).

Every one of those ports takes away 1 (or several in the case of parallel/ide) ports that could be something useful, such as USB, FireWire, SATA, or something that people will actually use. If people want to hook up ancient hardware, let them use PCI adapter cards and port replecators.

Did you know that even PCI slots are becoming rare? The phone system at my office uses a plain regular 5V, 32-bit, 33 MHz PCI interface card for computer control. It is difficult to find rackmount servers from major vendors that still have these slots. Everything is PCI-X or PCIe.

Re:but the motherboards! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992373)

>remember about a year back reading about state of the art motherboards that got rid of all this crap we don't need.

I remember it very well. Compaq did this about 7 or 8 years ago on a certain line of machines (all of them with a chinese jigsaw puzzle box embossed with a huge "Q"). The BIOS keyboard driver contained a bug that would cause it to lock up after 1 minute of use in DOS. Imagine the joy of trying to repair the windows 98SE that was on that thing...

No thanks to removing the ports that work perfectly well, TYVM.

>Every one of those ports takes away 1 (or several in the case of parallel/ide) ports that could be something useful, such as USB, FireWire, SATA, or something that people will actually use.

If you're talking about ATX back panel space, that's true. I'd be happy for them to leave them on the board as STANDARDIZED headers (LOL at actually getting them to standardize them). Then I can just pop in a slot cover with them all on if I want to use them.

And, of course, apart from the obvious, here some modern uses of those legacy ports in both business and home:

  - RS232: Satellite card hacking
  - Parallel: Homebrew projects for the lazy
  - PS2: Duh.... :) Also good for a +5V power supply.
  - Floppy: Might not be popular, but when you download one of those dreaded old Dell support packs that absolutely HAS TO unpack itself to a floppy in DOS MODE, well, you'll be mighty glad of it
  - IDE Connectors: Duh again! :) Also, how about all those cheap DVD burners that they still sell?
  - (Bonus!) Turbo button: Useful as a cover open detect switch tester for old Dell/Compaq computers... :)

Re:but the motherboards! (1)

b1t r0t (216468) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992387)

Actually, real parallel printer ports can do things that USB printer ports can't, and that's to be used as a generic bit-banger I/O interface. For instance, there's a lot of EPROM programmers out there that will only work with a standard ISA-style printer port; not even a PCI printer port card will work.

But as far as I'm concerned, ISA serial ports (and floppies, and PS/2 ports) can go screw themselves. The Mac has done quite well without them for years, and Keyspan makes some damn nice USB serial adapters.

Re:but the motherboards! (1)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992301)

Actually, it's the PATA devices that do. SATA has been built into Intel chipsets since the 865/875, NVIDIA chipsets since the NF3, and ATi since the 200M. So it's simply putting down a few physical connectors. NVIDIA and ATi/AMD still support a PATA channel on their chispets, but Intel chipsets newer than the 975X don't. That means boards with the 965 and 30-series have to buy another IC and put it on the board to get the functionality. Ironically, parallel, serial, PS/2, and the other much older legacy stuff uses so little bandwidth that it goes off the LPC bus and you just need a connector like SATA. So you'll be more likely see a board that has parallel and serial but no PATA than one that has PATA because it's less expensive.

Re:but the motherboards! (1)

El_Isma (979791) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992515)

Serial and parallel ports are still used! They come in handy in electronics. They're easy to use and most programming languages support them.

Some header (0, Redundant)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991879)

Seagate to Drop IDE Drives by Year End

      My first thought was: But won't they get damaged?

Too bad... (2, Funny)

DogDude (805747) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991883)

That's too bad. Seagate makes some decent drives. I only hope that this doesn't apply to Maxtor, now that Seagate owns them. I looooove me some Maxtor drives.

Re:Too bad... (1, Informative)

mmxsaro (187943) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992009)

I hope you're kidding about loving Maxtor drives. Just two days ago I got another dead Maxtor hard drive. Pretty much all the drives that were sold in the past 5 years have died. I have a whole stack of Maxtor 20/40 GB model hard drives at work from all the clients I service.

Re:Too bad... (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992045)

Maybe they've improved, but I've seen Maxtors shit out too many times. (Only once for me; I learned my lesson. But I've seen plenty of other people get fucked over by them too). The last time slashdot did a "which drive manufacturer is the best?" story, a large number of people seemed to agree that Maxtor should be avoided like a 3rd bush presidential term.

Re:Too bad... (1)

therufus (677843) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992491)

I love Maxtor drives too. They help me sell Seagates and WD's when they die. In the computer shop that I work in, every PC with a Maxtor drive that comes in for repair, a HDD test is run on the drive. It's truly frightening how many fail. They're not all old drives either, some are brand new. It's usually a 50/50 ratio of living to dead hard drives.

The other thing of note is the fact that it's always the same fault when they die. Windows will be able to see the physical drive but all the formatting on the drive gets toasted. It's almost like the FAT/NTFS table gets smashed every time. Uncanny really.

It's sour. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19991931)

The tech industry as a whole deprecates and wastes so much. It is a wasteful nightmare.

Re:It's sour. (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992321)

PATA has been around for such a long time though, and we got about a four hear transition time. I certainly wasn't the quickest to adopt it, I'm glad it wasn't forced on the market within a year like the AGP to PCIe seemed to be. Sure, you could get AGP cards but the standard was relegated to second class treatment almost immediately.

While I don't think I do anything that saturates a PATA connection, I like the fact that SATA drives can just be plugged into a backplane without fancy adapter circuitry, proprietery connectors or any cables at all, all that simply can't be done with PATA. External SATA has greatly improved the performance of external drives because it's a native signal end-to-end, I'm not stuck with having to use USB or Firewire.

Eh (1)

Jethro (14165) | more than 6 years ago | (#19991979)

That's ok, I can still get my Western Digital drives.

Re:Eh (1, Offtopic)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992235)

I hadn't bought a WD drive in years because I had some trouble with a few where I used to work (we got a really bad batch). However, a couple of months ago, I decided that my laptop's drive (40GB split 30/10 between windows and linux) was too small for all of the things I want to use it for, so I got one of WD's 320GB external drives.

I have to say that I'm impressed. It's pretty quiet, has adequate air flow, and more than responsive enough for a storage drive.

It feels nice to have real drive space again as well. In fact, I've spent the last several weeks ripping my cd collection so I can listen to it at my desk without digging through discs.

Re:Eh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992397)

Yeah, sure YOU can get other brand of disks, but how about r00t over here [slashdot.org]? How the heck is he supposed to be able to play WOW after Seagate ceases to sell IDE disks?

PATA won a ribbon cable (4, Funny)

leek (579908) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992113)

Seagate SATA long time on this.


They're a bunch of SASies.

PC Joe won't understand SCSI isn't old enough.

ISA... (3, Insightful)

gringer (252588) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992143)

ISA slots were available long after most of us had ditched our old ISA peripherals.
You Insensitive Clod! I still have an ISA modem. Works much better than those silly winmodems, too.

What's next??? (2, Funny)

NCTRNAL (780392) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992195)

The next thing you know, I am going to be told that BetaMax, LaserDiscs, CRT's and Windows NT 4.0 are being phased out. (Huddles in the corner to sob away while playing on his Lite-Brite)

There goes the cheap external storage ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992219)

I like using firewire for my external storage - it's what that interface was designed for, after all (and I have a Mac, so it's not like it's crippled by cruddy drivers). Guess what? All the cheap external cases with IEEE1394 support take PATA IDE drives only. No SATA. Most of the cases with SATA support provide SATA and USB2 ports only.

Sure, USB2 works, but damnit, every IEEE1394 case I have has two ports, for daisy chaining ... I'm yet to see that on a USB2 case. A quick check of the cheap vendors doesn't reveal anything; a search on Google finds one for the modest price of $AU190 (inclusive of tax). There may be other options in the US, but that's the US, not Australia (where I live).

So much for the cheap disk storage boost ... *sigh*

When will old PCI die? (4, Interesting)

Michael Woodhams (112247) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992237)

My motherboard has great big old PCI slots, and tiny little 1xPCI-e slots which are just as capable. PCI-e has taken over for graphics cards, but I've never even seen a 1xPCI-e expansion card. (The motherboard manufacturers don't believe they'll be used either - they put them next to the 16x slot where double-width graphics cards will make them inaccessable.)

When will old PCI die? Perhaps very small format motherboards and laptops will eventually drive demand for 1xPCI-e cards?

For that matter - is there any reason for low-end PCI-e graphics cards to be 16x, rather than 8x or even 4x? (They'd still fit in a 16x slot.) I suppose there is no demand - any PCI-e motherboard has a 16x slot, and there isn't anything you'd want to put in it except a GPU. About the only use I can think of is if you wanted one computer to run many low-performance displays - e.g. 8 monitors off four GPUs, each using a 4x slot.

Re:When will old PCI die? (4, Informative)

tdelaney (458893) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992531)

Hah - I can answer both of these.

1. There are PCI-e 1x gigabit NICs and some of 1x video cards around. I think I've seen some 1x RAID cards as well, but I wouldn't swear to it.

I've got a PCI-e 1x gigabit NIC I put into machines without onboard gigabit - performance and CPU usage are both excellent. Gigabit on PCI tends to saturate the PCI bus and have much higher CPU usage - you should always check that any onboard gigabit NIC is PCI-e.

2. Tweaktown did some comparisons of a 7300GT on 1x and 16x - the results show significant differences:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1045/pci_e_x1_gra phics_performance_with_galaxy_geforce_7300gt/index .html [tweaktown.com]

Tom's Hardware have two articles comparing 1x, 4x, 8x and 16x by masking off pins on graphics cards. The performance graphs are very interesting.

Original article - X600XT, X800XT, 6800GT
http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/22/sli_is_comi ng/index.html [tomshardware.com]

Newer article - X1900XTX, 8800GTS
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/27/pci_express _scaling_analysis/ [tomshardware.com]

The basic conclusion is that you only need 4x for lower-end resolutions and quality, but if you're pushing high-end cards you really want 16x.

ISA is dead? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992239)

You can pry my Novell NE2000 board, Sound Blaster Pro, Cirrus Super VGA card, and Promise LBA Extender from my cold, electrocuted hands.

IDE graveyard (3, Interesting)

Vskye (9079) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992255)

This really kinda sucks. I have a computer that needs a few legacy items like IDE, Serial and a parallel port. Why? Well, serial port(s) for my ham radio stuff and a parallel port for my perfectly good HP 6L printer. (might be an unknown issue with the IDE side)
 
I also like to go back and play with a older OS sometimes which doesn't even see a SATA drive. Guess it's time to stock up on a few IDE drives.

Re:IDE graveyard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19992353)

If you'd like to use an older OS then, you can load it up on a VM giving it a virtual IDE. I've done that with quite a few OS that don't recognize SCSI drives.

It's a bad idea (5, Funny)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992287)

Hardware: Seagate to Drop IDE Drives by Year End

They don't work so well after dropping them. I, for one, will not buy one of these dropped drives at any price.

Re:It's a bad idea (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992367)

I'm sure that sales will bounce back for all the other PATA drive manufacturers though... Sorry, bad pun, can't kick the habit.

What about SCSI? (1)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992311)

Surely they aren't going to stop making SCSI drives. The article seems to imply that but I'll chalk it up to pure dumbfuckery on the part of the author.

Drop them? (-1, Redundant)

kybred (795293) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992395)

I think they've already been dropping them, 'cause I've got one that just died!

Damnit, I knew it! (-1, Redundant)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992421)

They're dropping their IDE drives? No wonder they don't work for shit!

Re:Damnit, I knew it! (1)

nrgy (835451) | more than 6 years ago | (#19992501)

I'm not going to lie one day while swapping a drive out of a little machine I used as a server, I took it out and TOSSED yes TOSSED it over on my bed 2 feet away. Oh the horror of watching it not land flat but instead vertical and on one corner, the wonderful bouncing across my bed that ensued was only the precursor to it falling off the other side and onto the floor. Needless to say that drive never booted again :D
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