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LAIR Pushed To Next Month

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the bad-news-for-the-station dept.

PlayStation (Games) 50

LAIR, the much-anticipated title featuring combat from dragon-back, is a very important title for Sony and the PlayStation 3. Its the first of the AAA slated for the end of the year for the trailing platform ... and so far things don't look good for the title. Now, the company has announced that LAIR has been delayed until early in September. "Due to an extra step in QA testing to enhance the community features in the game, the release of LAIR, originally set for August 14th, has changed to September 4, 2007. Natural challenges that arose while finalizing the offline game to include key online features - such as leaderboards and medal systems - have led to the difficult choice of pushing back the release date. We appreciate everyone's excitement and patience for the game and look forward to its release on September 4."

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50 comments

Are we surprised? (2, Insightful)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090543)

This is happening to 50% of the new releases. Probably higher for big-name titles. I completely made up that statistic btw, but isn't it just about common now to view a release date as only a suggestion?

Re:Are we surprised? (1)

realthing02 (1084767) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090641)

Why game companies think they can pinpoint a release date when more then 65% of commercial aps that go through (apparently) little to no QA can't even hit their deadlines is amazing to me. Are there certifications for gaming studios such as CMMI or iso-9000? I'm sure that will never happen but just imagine the kick in the pants they'd feel when they get a cmmi level 0 rating.

Of course, often times it's the publisher that drives deadlines, so who knows if that will/can ever be fixed.

Re:Are we surprised? (2, Insightful)

feepness (543479) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091027)

Why game companies think they can pinpoint a release date when more then 65% of commercial aps that go through (apparently) little to no QA can't even hit their deadlines is amazing to me.
They don't think they can. But they hope they can get close. They have to get a manufacturing slot for their game reserved 6 months in advance. They have to line up advertising in print, TV, and online months in advance. For some games "it will be done when it's done" works because it will get the press (and bought) when it's done. Most others do not have that luxury.

It's not the game company driving the dates, it's the rest of the industry pushing the game company.

Re:Are we surprised? (1)

realthing02 (1084767) | more than 6 years ago | (#20092189)

I hadn't thought about all of the advertising that games do compared to thing like, say, winzip. I guess i was approaching it too much like a systems engineer.

Re:Are we surprised? (1)

badasscat (563442) | more than 6 years ago | (#20092831)

I hadn't thought about all of the advertising that games do compared to thing like, say, winzip.

Yeah, and it all needs to be budgeted and coordinated. For a big game, there can be literally tens of millions of dollars at stake. Print ads get bought months in advance, meaning they need to be worked on starting months before that, meaning they need to be budgeted and planned even sooner. A company only has a certain number of designers and they work on a variety of projects. They can't just drop everything one day and make an ad up for a game that the company has just decided is ready. A company also has a certain marketing budget, so they can't just pull ad money out of a hat if a game is suddenly ready that they weren't expecting.

Print campaigns also need to be coordinated with TV ad campaigns and online ad campaigns, so that the same message is getting out there at the same time. (Or, you might advertise in certain mediums but not others at first, but again, this is based on a strategy that needs to be set in advance. It's not haphazard.)

This is true even of games that most people would think "sell themselves" like the Grand Theft Auto series. You watch how the hype ramps up as we get closer to October/November. All of that's already been either planned or actually in place for months now. Rockstar's advertising a particular date in all those ads and they will hit it. They're actually pretty good about that as a company.

Most games have around an 18 month development cycle on average. Some (like GTA) take longer. But in part because of the marketing, a company needs to know 8-10 months out whether a game is shaping up well enough to set a date. Those dates can sometimes change, but there needs to be a date in order to start the planning for everything that happens around the game.

Re:Are we surprised? (1)

badasscat (563442) | more than 6 years ago | (#20093093)

This is true even of games that most people would think "sell themselves" like the Grand Theft Auto series. You watch how the hype ramps up as we get closer to October/November. All of that's already been either planned or actually in place for months now. Rockstar's advertising a particular date in all those ads and they will hit it. They're actually pretty good about that as a company.

Sorry to reply to myself, but all I can say is... uh... whoops!

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUS N0238261720070802 [reuters.com]

A month? That's an absurdly long delay. (4, Funny)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090555)

I'm sure people will stop buying PS3's due to their outrage.

Re:A month? That's an absurdly long delay. (1)

Khaed (544779) | more than 6 years ago | (#20092915)

No, I'm pretty sure Dr. Kool is going to keep buying PS3s.

Re:A month? That's an absurdly long delay. (1)

captain_cthulhu (996356) | more than 6 years ago | (#20094155)

I'm sure people will stop buying PS3's

oh, then they must have heard this back when it was released!

No kidding (2, Interesting)

CokoBWare (584686) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090565)

Why doesn't that surprise me? Can't wait to see the game though. It looks gorgeous. Are they going to release it for the PC?

Re:No kidding (1)

kosanovich (678657) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090633)

The controls are setup to use the sixaxis controller, you apparently can't even fly the dragon with the analog sticks, you are forced to use sixaxis. That combined with the fact that factor 5 is like insomniac in that they are a private company but have a partnership with Sony where they develop exclusively for the PS3 means that it for sure won't be coming to any other gaming platform.

Re:No kidding (0)

sxeraverx (962068) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090705)

"Are they going to release it for the PC?" I highly doubt it. IIRC, this is one of those games that required Blu-ray. I'm pretty sure it's a 25 GB game, and I doubt you'd enjoy installing it from 5 DVDs (or 35(?) CDs) and having it take 25 Gigs on your drive. And it probably wouldn't look nearly as "gorgeous," either, because most computers are probably massively underpowered for it. According to Wiki, it's got: Progressive Mesh HDR Lighting Real-time Dynamic physics and Fluid dynamics just to name a few. I doubt if even 1% of PCs currently being sold have the capability of real-time fluid dynamics.

Re:No kidding (1)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090891)

Really? A 25g game? I did not know that. Cool...

Re:No kidding (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091453)

"Are they going to release it for the PC?" I highly doubt it. IIRC, this is one of those games that required Blu-ray. I'm pretty sure it's a 25 GB game, and I doubt you'd enjoy installing it from 5 DVDs (or 35(?) CDs) and having it take 25 Gigs on your drive. And it probably wouldn't look nearly as "gorgeous," either, because most computers are probably massively underpowered for it. According to Wiki, it's got: Progressive Mesh HDR Lighting Real-time Dynamic physics and Fluid dynamics just to name a few. I doubt if even 1% of PCs currently being sold have the capability of real-time fluid dynamics.
Not to slag the Ps3, I really like mine. But if you implement it for Pc you don't have as much of a proccessing power vs disc space contraint. A Console game must contruct all the binaries/artwork/audio etc.. on the fly or with just a bit of preprocessing while a PC game can heaviyl crunch it and reconstruct on install and play without doign that step again and again. so a 25 gig on a console may only be 7 gigs on a PC with no quality loss.

I hope it doens't go to Pc because I could sure use some more exclusives ot promote more games for my PS3. I wish I coudl convince my friends at bioware to port Mass effect to the Ps3. They swore off the sony platforms after a game of theirs for the PS2 nearly killed all their programmers with stress.

Re:No kidding (1)

sxeraverx (962068) | more than 6 years ago | (#20095147)

I agree completely that we need more exclusives, but I'm pretty sure the first point you make is incorrect:

Installing to a PC simply means copying the files for faster read times (and originally to be able to play the game without the CD, but you're not even supposed to do that anymore). Nothing actually "compiles" during the install process. I'm pretty sure that if it did, the disc would have to be even bigger.
Also, the PS3 is a lot more likely to be able to heavily crunch the numbers required for binaries/artwork/audio etc.
Finally, the PS3 does have the ability to "install" games--That's why Virtua Fighter 5 has such a long first-start time.

I love my PS3, too, and hope we'll both have many more fine games to enjoy. [Can't wait]

Re:No kidding (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#20095447)

Decompression not compilation. A PC DVD can take it's time with a good but CPU intensive compression algorithm like a really right rar or 7zip or something. A PS3 games doesn't have that luxury yet. Most of the non-downloadable games have fairly light initial boot ups.

Re:No kidding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20094723)

Fluid-dynamics are greatly simplified for video games and therefore aren't as computationally intensive as you might think. Check out Plasma Pong [plasmapong.com]

Shocking! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20090753)

That it would take extra time to try and develop Achievement -- er, I mean "medals" -- and leaderboard functionality for the title when Sony has only just decided that having those kind of community features is valuable and necessary.

Xbox ftw.

Hopefully making for a better game (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#20090951)

The early previews did not seem great, hopefully they'll be taking the extra time to fix issues and make the game live up to potential (the idea is great, it's just the execution that needs work).

Re:Hopefully making for a better game (1)

Control Group (105494) | more than 6 years ago | (#20093273)

the idea is great, it's just the execution that needs work

While I see where you're coming from, I also think you're misrepresenting. It's the execution that's the hard part; ideas are easy (for proof of this statement, go read pretty much anything Peter Molyneaux has ever said). I mean, I have an idea for an RPG with an open/sandbox play style, but in which the world also evolves around you (you don't have to do the main quest, but the more time you spend not doing it, the worse the world gets and the harder it is to take on the Big Evil).

I've also got an idea for a racer where the goal is to get from point A to point B under various traffic conditions (ideally pulled from real-world traffic data on the fly) faster than your opponent. You can drive however you want over whatever route you want, but if a cop decides to pull you over, you lose.

These may be great ideas (or not, of course), but it doesn't matter - I don't have the capacity to bring them to fruition, so no one will ever find out.

The point is, it's not like having everything done but the execution means they can fix it easily. The execution is the game.

Re:Hopefully making for a better game (1)

Zhe Mappel (607548) | more than 6 years ago | (#20094023)

These may be great ideas (or not, of course), but it doesn't matter - I don't have the capacity to bring them to fruition, so no one will ever find out.



Oh, sure. The nice thing about these Internets is what you say to one million people here, stays here. ;-)



But seriously: your devolving world RPG idea is a good one, IMO. The problem with most game paradigms is their relentless linearity and immutable conditions. And your idea neatly addresses that. Go pitch it to someone in a suit.



Further along these lines I'd like to see better adaptive pattern-recognition algorithms in game world logic. Graphics, shmaphics. Games must become able to outwit us. Tyrannize us. We need games that have the mind of a poker wiz and the fetid black soul of a Trump.

Re:Hopefully making for a better game (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#20094119)

I'm not saying the execution is not the hard part, and actually from the previews I think they made it pretty far towards having a good execution - but they were missing in a few regards. I just think they are close enough they have the potential to close on that execution gap.

Control scheme (1)

Nick of NSTime (597712) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091059)

I hope to FSM that they fix the control scheme. Forget that leaderboard crap. Make sure the control is tight. My suggestion: make Sixaxis an option and let us use the analog sticks.

Okay here goes my karma. (3, Insightful)

Khaed (544779) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091093)

This is offtopic, so get your mod points handy. But:

I am really sick of the following two terms, and they seem mostly confined to slashdot (NONE of my gaming friends outside of /. have even heard them): AAA Title, and SKU. The former just sounds stupid. Oh noes, AAA? What about AAAAAAAA?! AAA? Like, the battery size?

Are there B titles? O titles? S titles? So could there be a BOOBS title? (Would that be those volleyball games?)

Both of these terms have come around somewhat recently, and it irks me. It reminds me of computer terminology thrown out there on bad TV by an idiot: "It has Megagigs!"

Seriously. You guys sound like marketing idiots using buzzwords.

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091369)

Outside of slashdot?

Go look at a game developers site. Look at the job listings, I'm willing to bet about half the time they will use the terms AA,AAA,or AAAA.

In fact here is one from blizzard: http://www.blizzard.com/jobopp/art-lead-3d-environ ment.shtml [blizzard.com]

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

DirePickle (796986) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091429)

Agreed. Agreed with the intensity of one thousand suns! Whither mod points?

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091439)

I am really sick of the following two terms, and they seem mostly confined to slashdot (NONE of my gaming friends outside of /. have even heard them): AAA Title, and SKU. The former just sounds stupid. Oh noes, AAA? What about AAAAAAAA?! AAA? Like, the battery size?


I encountered such terms many years ago in game *development* circles. You know, the guys who actually make the games. When I encountered the terms years ago, they were clearly widespread and well known to the guys in that field. Personally, I really don't care if gamers are afraid of words. They have a well understood meaning among the people who need to use them. What do you want people to do instead of use nice short concise terms? Use a full sentence explaining what they mean every time they want to use the word? That only matters when communicating with a layman who is too lazy to look up the term. If they get scared off, good riddance. :)

Are there B titles? O titles? S titles? So could there be a BOOBS title? (Would that be those volleyball games?)

Yes, No, No, See Tomb Raider or BMXXX or Leisure Suit Larry.

Both of these terms have come around somewhat recently, and it irks me. It reminds me of computer terminology thrown out there on bad TV by an idiot: "It has Megagigs!"

No they haven't. You've just started encountering them recently.

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

captain_cthulhu (996356) | more than 6 years ago | (#20094193)

No they haven't. You've just started encountering them recently.

exactly.

SKU (1)

Wooky_linuxer (685371) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091635)

SKU means stock keeping unit; it should mean the lowest level of product detail, as kept in stock. Why everyone suddenly started using it as a layman's term, beats me. I assure you it is not only here in /. though.

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091643)

There a difference between people to mis-uses jargon and people who doesn't understand when others use unfamiliar but legitimate jargon. Those bits of jargon are legitimate devloper jargon. They've started springing up into common usage so either go with the flow or look foolish. I think you've chosen your option?

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

singingjim1 (1070652) | more than 6 years ago | (#20092299)

And here goes my karma too (not that I had any to begin with) but ...what?? Excuse me, but what did you just say??? There a diffference? What is mis-uses? I think people DON'T understand, I know I don't. Devloper? The option to proofread your post so YOU don't look foolish was obviously decided against. Better luck next time. Even if you had a point, no one would even know it.

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20094877)

Actually, I love when people use these terms in their posts. It tells me that they're just regurgitaters, that I can stop wasting my time reading their crap and immediately skip to the next post.

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 6 years ago | (#20097393)

SKU = Shelve Keeping Unit / Store Keeping Unit. Why do you have a problem with this?

Its a common retail acronym. Its frequently used these days to identify types of console bundles which are to be announced before formal notification has been made.

Personally I find "new buzzwords" like podcasting, vlogging, ARGs to be more annoying.

Re:Okay here goes my karma. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20102673)

Wow, not even as much fuss was made over "loose" (instead of "lose")...

It's better this way.. (2, Insightful)

M0rph3v5 (1136667) | more than 6 years ago | (#20091513)

Honestly.. I actually praise that they delay the game only for the reason that when I get the game in my hands I won't be bombarded with bugs that aren't fixed or spotted by QA.. which if anyone forgot, means QUALITY ASSURANCE.. emphasis on the assurance part and bigger on the quality part. They want to make the game fool-proof of glitches that can cause for negative gameplay. All they're doing right now is pleasing their customers by providing good quality software. Final note.. many games in the past have had delays on release dates but they do it because they don't want to just shell out some p.o.s. that could possibly ruin their fanbase and cause them to never be able to make another game because the previous one was 'buggy' and didn't meet the gamer's expectations.. after all.. isn't it in the end all about the end-user? they after all are the ones paying $60 out of their pocket.

yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20091551)

Wake me when there is news about a game being released on platforms that people actually own.

Re:yawn (1)

Saint_Waldo (541712) | more than 6 years ago | (#20095135)

I own one. I'm a person. I have more than one friend who ones one. Collectively, we are people.

Can I kick you awake now?

Eh a month isn't all that bad... (1)

Duffy13 (1135411) | more than 6 years ago | (#20092599)

I can live with a month delay, that's not too bad, especially if it helps. At the very least it shows they do care about the quality of their product. I'm sure I can find something else to amuse me for a month, actually I'm pretty sure theirs a couple other games I need to play this month.

Re:Eh a month isn't all that bad... (1)

toolie (22684) | more than 6 years ago | (#20102517)

I can live with a month delay, that's not too bad, especially if it helps.
Its been delayed far longer than a month. It was originally going to be a launch title. They then pushed it back to June I think it was. After that, they said it would be July. Then they said it would release on 04 AUG. Then then PS3 Blog announced it went 'gold' for a 14 AUG release. Then they said it would be released 04 SEP.

Thats about nine months worth of delays, not one.

When one of the major issues cited with a system is lack of games, any delays like this hurts.

Quick! Someone write a perl script (1)

El_Smack (267329) | more than 6 years ago | (#20092989)

that copies all the comments for the "Spore: When it's ready" thread over to here and replaces "Spore" with "LAIR". Guaranteed +5 Karma!

zonk bias (3, Insightful)

ch0ad (1127549) | more than 6 years ago | (#20095289)

ok i am new here but is it not quite obvious to everyone that the editors here have a strong personal bias towards (or in this case against) certain consoles. off topic i know... but as a ps3 owner it's quite annoying having my favourite news site slating the ps3 for *any* reason at all, even regarding stories that are about positive things.

ps3 gets a price drop: article "ps3 price doesnt get lowered enough".

ps3 gets a bundle/starter pack deal, article: "ps3 starter pack forces you to get games you may not want"

or something along those lines anyway. this time the lair dev's want to spnd a few extra weeks tweaking the control scheme and somehow this is doom and gloom for the whole game, and next the ps3 will die!. ok, it's more subtly worded... but the bias is obvious to me.

... or am i alone in finding this a bit tiresome. i suppose i can never get enough of the microsoft blunders... maybe you just have to be of a specific mind set to appreciate the editorial style here, and if you dont happen to share the mindset you're on your own.

Re:zonk bias (0, Troll)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 6 years ago | (#20097207)

No, you just want everything to line up with your opinion so that you don't feel stupid for having it. It's a common human condition.

You'll get what you want when the PS3 stops being such a shitty deal, if ever. Until then, yes, you have a stupid opinion. Sorry.

Re:zonk bias (1)

gamer4Life (803857) | more than 6 years ago | (#20097707)

Your opinion is even more stupid. Sorry.

Shitty deal to you maybe... if all you want to do is play games, then yes, maybe it is a "shitty" deal. But if you are looking for a convergence device so you don't have your home theatre cluttered with gadgets, then it's a great machine and well worth the price.

WiFi, hard drive, Linux, reliability, sleeker, Blu-ray, etc.... all these things make it worth more than the XBox 360.

Re:zonk bias (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 6 years ago | (#20098187)

Who said anything about the 360? Are you so worried about your opinion's validity you need to make up my arguments to shoot me down?

Zonk is on the take from Microsoft (1)

gamer4Life (803857) | more than 6 years ago | (#20097751)

He's probably getting free games and laptops from Microsoft for posting spin-news from Microsoft's marketing department.

Re:zonk bias (1)

captain_cthulhu (996356) | more than 6 years ago | (#20104371)

how the heck did this post get modded as 'interesting'? apparently you only read the ps3 slashdot articles. There's no love for MS around here:
"more advertising in your next Xbox game"
"xbox division posts $1.9 billion loss"
"For-Pay Demos Coming to Xbox Live?"
"The Man Who Went Through 11 Xbox 360s"
"Microsoft Sued Over Scratched Xbox 360 Discs"

and why don't you list any of the "pro" ps3 article names:
"Price Cut Leads To PS3, PSP Sales Boost"
"A Million PS3s Sold in Japan"
"PS3 Oblivion Approaching PC Quality Visuals"

anyway, this article doesn't imply doom or gloom for Lair, the early EGM review does. Leave the journalism to the journalists and stop trying to read between the lines, you'll only get hurt.

Re:zonk bias (1)

ch0ad (1127549) | more than 6 years ago | (#20108167)

it's not the articles themselves i was talking about exactly... the editors don't make the news up, it's just the way the news is presented. positive bits of news re. the ps3 are given negative spin, and visa versa.

Wasn't this a Launch Game? (1)

qzak (1115661) | more than 6 years ago | (#20103303)

So much for the PS3 "launch window" closing anytime soon.

OT: Caps Lock - bad (1)

rav64 (1013843) | more than 6 years ago | (#20106579)

You know, between 'LAIR' and 'THEY' apparently trying to muscle their way through using all big letters, I'm starting to loose all faith in mankind.

I'm hoping that the game is still _called_ Lair (sans all caps), because that trend is definitely not something I want to be a part of.
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