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The Pirate Bay About To Relaunch Suprnova.org

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the but-for-how-long dept.

The Internet 285

kungfujesus writes "The Pirate Bay crew has been working on this secret project for quite some time now. Back in April they wrote a cryptic post on their blog announcing that something was coming. In a response to this announcement TPB admin Brokep told TorrentFreak: "The past, the present and the future. It's all the same, but one thing's for sure, we will radiate for weeks", today it became clear that he was referring to the resurrection of Suprnova."

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But with mininova (5, Insightful)

Cameron McCormack (690882) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097529)

who needs suprnova?

Re:But with mininova (4, Interesting)

nlitement (1098451) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097553)

It holds a certain nostalgic value. I'm really happy to hear this.

Re:But with mininova (5, Interesting)

genrader (563784) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097555)

Mininova is nowhere near the traffic that Suprnova once was. I used to be able to find anything and everything on suprnova, almost always. Mininova feels lacking a lot of the time.

Re:But with mininova (2, Informative)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098061)

Add isohunt and eztv to your list of places to look.

Re:But with mininova (2, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098113)

But is this a "problem" with Mininova or increased P2P site competition? TPB, IsoHunt, TorrentSpy, ...

I don't think Suprnova will resolve that, but we'll see.

Who needs it (4, Interesting)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097667)

Mininova aside, why would they relaunch Suprnova, when TPB is already one of the biggest (if not the biggest) BT trackers around?

Is there really a market for that many different tracker/aggregators? I guess I can understanding having different sites tailored to different purposes; a site that's designed expressly for tracking TV-episode .torrents is probably going to be designed differently than one built around general-purpose dvdimage/iso/rar torrents, but it seems like this is something where bigger is better. The more files that are tracked, the more useful a site is.

Why create another one?

Re:Who needs it (2, Insightful)

originalnih (709470) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097715)

The Pirate Bay is crap. Demonoid is far better.

Re:Who needs it (1)

rts008 (812749) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097825)

Hear! Hear!

Demonoid is de man!

Most of my worthwhile/usable downloads are generated by Demonoid.

Usable should have been in ALL CAPS!

Re:Who needs it (-1, Offtopic)

wish bot (265150) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097979)

Got an invite? misery.guts@gmail.com

Re:Who needs it (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097771)

It's not a tracker. It's an aggregation site. It just stores copies of .torrent files from public trackers, which would include TPB. Most of the special-purpose (TV, movies, games, whatever) torrent sites are aggregation sites as well.

Probably good to explain. (2, Insightful)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098163)

Not everyone knows what PirateBay, Suprnova, Mininova, IsoHunt, and Demonoid do. I think it would be good to explain their purpose and their differences.

Other questions: Why does Demonoid have accounts? "People in the United States downloading torrents tracked on The Pirate Bay are certainly in danger." Why is that? What is PeerGuardian? What is MediaSentry?

For those who are tempted, please skip any negative comments. No one can know everything about computers.

Re:Probably good to explain. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098213)

what TPB do is generate money for themselves through ads :
http://rixstep.com/1/20060708,00.shtml [rixstep.com]
20,000 Euros a DAY through advertising. earning them 9 million dollars a year by giving away other peoples hard work for free.
what charming people. I hope they end up in a cell.

Re:Probably good to explain. (1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098411)

What, you mean this Cell [fredama03.free.fr] ?

Re:Probably good to explain. (2, Insightful)

originalnih (709470) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098403)

I don't think Demonoid's account restrictions have anything to do with user security. It's far more related to torrent quality. Upload a virus? Bam! You're out. Upload a fake? More bam! You're out.

The Demonoid folk make an effort to report torrents that work well too, meaning you can read in a torrent's comments to find missing files, cracks, serials, links to better torrents, etc.

Any effort I make to learn a new piece of software is often an impulse so I have to acquire that software fast. So thanks Demonoid, you've kept me educated. In turn I've purchased the software I've learnt to use. I don't think anyone at this point realistically argues that there's no place for piracy.

Re:Probably good to explain. (1)

ResidntGeek (772730) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098449)

No one can know everything about computers.
No, but they can use very common and simple methods like search engines to find out things they don't know, instead of sitting and waiting for everything to be explained to them.

Stop the internet! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097535)

whoa, a domain name is going to be used! what great front page news!

Re:Stop the internet! (1)

ShaneThePain (929627) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097563)

Sarcasm aside, this is a big score for the pirates.
They cant stop us, we are too many.
Their industry will adapt or be destroyed. And good riddance.

Re:Stop the internet! (5, Funny)

Walpurgiss (723989) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097621)

Next week on Fox 11, a story on the torrent downloading terrorist threat to the Universe; threatening to "SuprNova" vans at sports stadiums in solar systems across the Universe.

Re:Stop the internet! (3, Funny)

Carbon016 (1129067) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097677)

Some say these "internet pirate gangs" are equivalent to "domestic bank robbers"! Those who feel threatened should immediately buy a dog.

Re:Stop the internet! (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097781)

Hey, if we can get the Bittorrent guys to carry pink water pistols, can we trick Fox into reporting it and get the rest of them fired? It worked on Bill O'Reilly!

Re:Stop the internet! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097815)

I heard they do it for "lulz".

Slashdot Users (2, Funny)

alfs boner (963844) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097567)

I would never socialize with a Slashdot user. Sorry guys :(

Blame yourselves.

Not a bad idea (5, Interesting)

chebucto (992517) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097591)

From the article it sounds like the main technical thing going on here is that the suprnova site will be relaunched as a torrent index, using the same design scheme as the original site. Ho-hum; there is no lack of options for torrent sites at the moment...

... but the symbolic meaning is, IMHO, actually important. From TFA:

We also talked to Brokep, one of The Pirate Bay administrators and asked him why they decided to revive Suprnova. He told us: "We talked it over and decided it was something people would have use for, it would help the torrent community and it would also signal that if you shut one down it will get back up again."

Not to be overly dramatic, but things like this show that injustices to the filesharing community (if you see them that way :) ) will, eventually, be overcome.

Re:Not a bad idea (1)

nolifetillpleather (975338) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097657)

remember donkax? that's the one holds a special place in my heart.

A few more details at slyck (4, Informative)

6350' (936630) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097649)

Slyck.com has an article up on the topic, with a few more details, and a couple comments from the original Suprnova maintainer.

He (Andrej Preston) comments in the article:

"My deal with [The Pirate Bay] was that the role of SuprNova can't change much. It needs to be community orientated, but I hope they make some updates the SuprNova was sooo missing. But what they will do, it's not my thing to decide anymore. But I know they will do [well] and will try to keep the community spirit running."
http://www.slyck.com/story1561_SuprNovaorg_Transfe rred_to_The_Pirate_Bay [slyck.com]

Re:A few more details at slyck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097809)

It needs to be community orientated...
And wine needs to be made from grapes that have fermentated.
 

Re:A few more details at slyck (2, Funny)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097867)

And wine needs to be made from grapes that have fermentated.

And smart-asses are resentated.

Re:A few more details at slyck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098237)

I think they can be appreciatated.

Yeah, and... (5, Interesting)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097681)

Am i the only person to notice that their big, uncensored image hosting site lasted about 2 days before they started removing images by the thousand with no explanation? Entire categories disappeared. I'd like to see slashdot or somebody ask them what the heck the point of the site is even supposed to be, since it certainly isn't a place to put things to link to, even generic LOL forum-type images. There's no indication on their FAQ or anywhere else why or how or who will just decide to remove stuff on a whim.

isohunt anyone? (1)

kantier (993472) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097685)

I think that's the ideal for a torrent index. index + merge duplicates. How can the idea be improved over that? maybe a better site design, I don't know.

Re:isohunt anyone? (1)

chebucto (992517) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097711)

A comment system to discuss individual torrents would be nice; it would make avoiding bad/poor-quality torrents easier.

Other than that, though, I agree with you. isohunt is by far the most effective torrent search site on the net at present.

Re:isohunt anyone? (5, Interesting)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097749)

Well, let's see.

* A search engine that actually uses booleans correctly.
* A policy that labels for CD or DVD images match what's on them in some consistent format, such as name, author, publisher, comments, with a matching search engine.
* Published checksums for the images: this could be used to reduce or elimiinate the duplicates.
* Open source or creative commons links: Bittorrent is the fastest way to get Linux CD or DVD images, but they *must* be checksum verified for security reasons.
* A policy of sending 3000 volts to the fingertips of the next idiot who uses yet another format for CD or DVD images, wasting my time with bittorrents for formats that no one but some teenager in Slovenia uses.

Re:isohunt anyone? (1)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098189)

Agreed. Next time somebody sends me a .daa file, somebody's going to have to pay for it.

Re:isohunt anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098501)

Or a .uif file.

If you want a compressed ISO, gzip it, damnit.

Re:isohunt anyone? (1)

Shinra (1057198) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097761)

They already do this on many private trackers sites, and have done it for the past couple of years, if not longer. I think they've also implimented comments or at least updates/RSS Feeds for certain torrents which get updated periodically (Such as Linux Distro ISOs)

Re:isohunt anyone? (1)

originalnih (709470) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097839)

If you keep an eye on it, getting an account at demonoid.com is easy. Since getting in there, my bittorrent experience has been a lot better.

Re:isohunt anyone? (1)

ascendant (1116807) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097785)

Isohunt fails because it has no comment system. However, it is good as a multiple tracker source. Often I go to TPB and find a good torrent, then search for the hash on Isohunt to get a good list of trackers. Too bad Azureus doesn't trat multiple trackers te same way uTorrent does. Gather together all peers and treat them as one swarm. If it did, Az would probably be perfect in my book.

scofflaws (5, Insightful)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097717)

Speaking as a BitTorrent client developer, I have to opine that BitTorrent is a terrible way to distribute pirated content. All the things that make it a good tool for distributing LEGITIMATE content work against it when what's being shipped around is against the law; it's too easy to track down the people involved in downloading and uploading it, and any attempt to limit that significantly reduces the network's ability to handle the load.

The only reason BitTorrent is being used is because there are plenty of scofflaws out there who want to share this data, and BitTorrent works great to amplify their efforts. Tracking down the initial sources is a bit difficult but not impossible, but there are a myriad of other sources waiting in the wings.

Scoffing the law is a grand tradition in the United States; from moonshiners, to ignoring the double-nickel speed limit on the roads, we've turned our noses up at laws which, while they may have some social benefit, we feel they restrict us too harshly. Often those laws wind up causing more problems than they solve; ask someone who wound up poisoned by ethylene glycol from an illegal alcohol still made from a car's radiator.

In this case we have people being sued, fined and jailed for trading long strings of ones and zeros. The "intellectual property" owners tell us these strings belong to them, even though those strings can vary enormously (re-encoding video alters the data entirely) they still assert ownership. One innocuous file on one's desktop may spell disaster. But with hundreds of millions of people around the world throwing them around, it's practically impossible to stop.

One website returning to life doesn't really mean that much in terms of what's being traded, but it is indeed a symbol showing how futile the fight to enforce the ownership of ideas is; after all, how can one own an idea [xkcd.com] ?

Re:scofflaws (1, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097859)

That's great. The Pirate Bay operate in a locale where this material *is* legal to distribute.

So your entire argument is pointless.

Re:scofflaws (1)

totally bogus dude (1040246) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097911)

I thought TPB was able to operate because the mere act of tracking torrents and providing .torrent files wasn't illegal there (Sweden?) -- but they still have copyright laws. There might also be a wrinkle that it's okay to download copywritten materials, but not to distribute it. Okay, I'm a bit hazy, but I'm sure someone else will clarify.

Also, the P's in P2P mean that laws regarding distribution in the location you live in still apply, regardless of how legal it may be in another location.

Re:scofflaws (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097991)

Yeah, that's your problem.

Re:scofflaws (2, Informative)

Talavis (906015) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098035)

It's illegal to download as well as upload "copywritten" materials since 1 july 2005. As for providing torrents, it's still unsure whether The Pirate Bay will be to court for it or not.

Re:scofflaws (2, Informative)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098159)

There might also be a wrinkle that it's okay to download copywritten materials, but not to distribute it

No, that's illegal too now per EU directives, although made illegal more recently.

But again, that's not TPB's method operation, but the BBS case you cite. The parent is wrong though in that it's legal to distribute the actual files.

Regards "A Swede"

Re:scofflaws (1)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098015)

People in the United States downloading torrents tracked on The Pirate Bay are certainly in danger. And I'm sure plenty of torrents there are sourced from here in the US, or in other countries where doing so is illegal. So no, my argument is not pointless.

Re:scofflaws (1)

LordSnooty (853791) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098333)

If they are the same thing, why have we not seen legal action against users on the scale of that against the 'point-to-point' networks of eg Kazaa, Limewire? Both types are shifting bits illegally, after all - it's strange that the content providers cannot take action against BitTorrent users in a similar manner.

Re:scofflaws (4, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098149)

That's great. The Pirate Bay operate in a locale where this material *is* legal to distribute.

If you're saying material = the actual file data: no, it's not. I'm from Sweden and it's all illegal to distribute (download AND upload) actual material without the copyright owner's explicit permission. It is NOT illegal to host torrent files though, it's quite logically considered different from the material, with file hashes and tracker info basically all they contain. This is being supported by an old BBS case of 1996 where it was decided in the BBS site's favor to host indices of warezed material.

Re:scofflaws (4, Insightful)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097877)

America was founded by scoffing the law, remember the Boston Tea Party?

Re:scofflaws (2, Informative)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097883)

Speaking as a BitTorrent client developer, I have to opine that BitTorrent is a terrible way to distribute pirated content.
Other than newsgroups, closed P2P communities, or something like TOR, what is?

Re:scofflaws (1)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098007)

Classical distribution systems like Napster and Morpheus are a bit safer, since people are connected to individual sources rather than to scads of them. It's easier to collect peer data on BitTorrent.

Re:scofflaws (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097939)

Translation:
I am a content consumer, not a content creator.
As such, copyright only gets in the way.
Ergo...
      INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE !!!!!!!!11111111one

Re:scofflaws (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098185)

Speaking as a BitTorrent client developer, I have to opine that BitTorrent is a terrible way to distribute pirated content. All the things that make it a good tool for distributing LEGITIMATE content work against it when what's being shipped around is against the law; it's too easy to track down the people involved in downloading and uploading it, and any attempt to limit that significantly reduces the network's ability to handle the load.
I agree wholeheartedly. But there's another problem waiting in the wings as well, and that problem is seeding and redistributing content. Basically, torrents 'die' after a week or so, and hosting your own torrents is nontrivial and far from automatic like it is with older P2P networks.

So basically, the best way to get a file is to get it right as it comes out, which are prime targets for the media companies who want to harvest IP's.

Thankfully, I'm not a big movie or TV show fan, and I much prefer the variety and unpredictableness of internet radio to waiting overnight for a CD torrent to finish.

Slashdot:Official message board of the pirate bay (1, Insightful)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097783)

or at least it feels like it. Why is it that everytime someone at the pirate bay sneezes it makes it on to the front page of slashdot? You download torrents from the internet, well good for you, I'm so proud! But there is more to tech than people who spend their lives watching MPAA movies while cursing out the MPAA

Re:Slashdot:Official message board of the pirate b (1)

JM78 (1042206) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098027)

More like a site full of nerds - the majority of which are interested in the subject. Seems pretty obvious (IMHO). If you don't care why did you click on the link, read the story and then spend the time to post a comment? N/M, that seems pretty obvious too.

Re:Slashdot:Official message board of the pirate b (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098383)

Well, my guess is that this is due to how /. works. People submit stories. People choose what stories they deem important. And those Stories make it to the front page.

So I guess if /. is the press agency of TPB, that's what "we" want it to be.

Mere Conicidence? (3, Interesting)

Shinra (1057198) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097789)

The Featured Article on Wikipedia today is the Supernova: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova [wikipedia.org] Coincidence? Or a sneaky new method of marketing?

Re:Mere Conicidence? (1)

ocean_soul (1019086) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098201)

There must be something behind it... Some Conspiracy... The US secret agencies... Aliens... :-)

*sigh* (5, Insightful)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097791)

I'm always bothered when I read articles like this because I know the Slashdot party line is always "File sharing good, fuck the content creators". I get upset because I think of my little brother, who's basically been screwed by piracy.

My little brother has a band. The music is quite good. The band is quite popular locally. It's so popular, in fact, that people bootleg their music and share it across the internet.

At first they were quite happy about this. They were reaching a much larger audience. Surely these people will come to their concerts and buy their CDs if they like the music (at least, that's what Slashdot always says will happen).

However, it didn't. Turns out (from conversations with their fans on their message board) that no one wants to buy their music. They like it, but hwy buy the music when fans can download every one of their albums for free online? Also, concert attendance has stayed flat. The pirating of their music hasn't suddenly increased attendance like they hoped it would.

So, while the band has a large fanbase (and it's growing), they've had barely enough to scrap by. My brother personally cleans a local diner's grease pit every night for a free dinner. They haven't (yet) gotten a recording contract, and I personally hope they do before my brother is actually eating the grease. :P

Long story short: don't believe everything you read on Slashdot. While I agree that the big content holders don't deserve any sympathy, there are artists out there that actually ARE hurting from piracy. It's mostly the little guys, and I haven't found one comment on Slashdot yet that recognizes this is as a problem.

Re:*sigh* (5, Insightful)

dunezone (899268) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097851)

Man I agree totally with you. This is hurting the little guy worse then its hurting the corporate level. I hate reading the countless comments praising them as heroes or saints at Pirate Bay.

Imagine the little guy putting countless hours and his heart and soul into developing a piece of software and offering it at a reasonable price. Then he hopes onto Pirate Bay and searches for it, and then he sees it being distributed by hundreds of people. Now some would feel happy that their software is being used. Unfortunately, that man is looking to make an income off of the software he sells. That man is now devastated and theres nothing he can do about it.

Pirate Bay is horrible. They know what their doing over there. I don't care if they operate in a country that by their law says they can do what they do. I don't care if they think their sticking it to the man. Those two excuses are getting old. And the worst part is how arrogant Pirate Bay is about all this.

Now most of you wont care of what I said. Thats fine. But I personally know someone who is devastated that his software is being distributed for free and theres not a god damn thing he can do about it. And I bet theres people on Slashdot that are seeing the same thing.

Re:*sigh* (4, Informative)

Embedded2004 (789698) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098021)

Why is the parent a troll?

I had software I was developing before in my part time and it was ripped off and pirated. It no longer became worth my time to work on it so it died a quick death.

Re:*sigh* (4, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098243)

the pirate bay do it to make money:
http://rixstep.com/1/20060708,00.shtml [rixstep.com]
20,000 Euros a day, also estimated at 9 million dollars a year, in advertising.

your friends band may lose out, but a bunch of swedes who take his work and give it away for free are doing just fine. Nice people huh?

Re:*sigh* (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098293)

I fail to see how funding your site through adds is somehow evil. Doesn't all sites do that?

Re:*sigh* (1, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098299)

Unfortunately, that man is looking to make an income off of the software he sells. That man is now devastated and theres nothing he can do about it.
You know how regular urban people just dehydrate and die or starve to death if they get lost in the desert? But the people who grew up there are able to survive because they know the 'lore' of the desert - how to take advantage of what appears to be barren surroundings - like what shriveled up plants actually store potable water, how to catch small animals for food, etc.

Your hypothetical software developer is like the urbanite lost in the desert. If he knew how to take advantage of the situation, then he COULD do something about it. All those people who download and actually use the software - not the 99% who download it, play with it and then delete, but the people for whom it is actually useful - those people are potential customers for version 2.0.

They all clearly need the software, they probably all have ideas about how it could be improved. If this hypothetical software developer had some business sense, he would solicit those people to pay for the development of version 2.0. Come up with a list of feature enhancements, set a price to implement for each one, and then make sure that all the regular users of the software know that by paying up front, they can get their most desired features added to the next release.

Of course, if the guy doesn't have a clue about the internet, and is stuck in the old pre-network mindset, yeah, then there really is nothing he can do about the piracy and he might as well just give up. Eventually someone smarter will come along and exploit the opportunities the first guy could not.

Re:*sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097857)

Tell your brother that I would be quite willing to take his case for a 40% cut. I'll deal with MediaSentry to get the names and IP addresses of the people infringing his copyrights. At $150,000 per song for intentional infringement, we should be able to make several million dollars.

--AC

Re:*sigh* (2, Insightful)

scottrocket (1065416) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097881)

Another way of looking at this, is that the people who download the music aren't going to buy it anyway, so why not encourage them to download your brother's music; over time, they may develop a strong preference for his music, & reward him later. If some of them don't, you haven't really lost anything. Or your brother and his musical peers could set up a streaming co-op say, with hundreds of titles & then pepper modest amounts of advertising every 15 minutes or so. A lot of people are accustomed to internet radio: If it goes the way of the dodo, these indie artists may well be the ones to fill (& perhaps satisfy) the demands of an existing audience. Tell your brother to keep plugging away! :)

Re:*sigh* (5, Funny)

Kris_J (10111) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097889)

If they do get a recording contract they'll really learn what theft is.

Re:*sigh* (1)

detect (227148) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097909)

What's your brother's band called?

Re:*sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098037)

I think this is his brother's band. They suck: http://www.zendurl.com/jacobs/ [zendurl.com]

They're called Isaac Jacobs & The Abrahams, but I think it's actually just one guy.

Re:*sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097921)

He's been screwed by piracy? You mean robbed, raped or murdered on the high seas? If not - then *call it what it is* - bootlegging.

Re:*sigh* (2, Interesting)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097929)

While I agree that the big content holders don't deserve any sympathy, there are artists out there that actually ARE hurting from piracy.

Yet another reason for reformation of copyright law. As "clever" as Disney et. al. think they were, there are repercussions and eventual consequences to shoving through self-serving laws. One of those is that people stop respecting the law.

Re:*sigh* (4, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097933)

While this seems like an obvious troll, I will entertain your scenario with a couple I know of personally.

I used to be in a band, I was never real good but the other members were. We cut a few tracks and all, played a few bars and local joints, even a couple festivals. We never were conceded or stupid enough to think we could do this full time seeing how we got half of the 2 dollar cover charge at most dive bars and they seemed to over charge us for our drinks. I don't know, maybe I could drink 20 beer and 5 or 6 shots in the 3 hours we played? (could explain why I sucked). So long story short, we all kept our jobs and did it as a hobby while at the same time working to get a contract and all. After all, there is probably 200 bands in every mid sized town and how many famous bands with contracts? It isn't likely that being in a band will amount to much mor then just that with all the competition out there.

Well, our band eventually we split up. Work got to involved for me to spend the time necessary and the others were playing around with different bands and all. I had some of our stuff in the shared directory with XoloX which was the popular local file sharing utility. Eventually, I have friends unrelated to this venture asking me if I knew who that band was. I instantly recognized the tunes and told them. Well, he searched the other members out and attempted to form a band with them. I ended up cutting some tracks for them too and shared them.

While they didn't make it rich, they did get a decent following and even though most of the band members moved on, they still have the band together and play more or less for fun but still do gigs like bars and festivals. One of the people was contacted and wrote two songs for someone in Nashville, It wasn't a popular singer rather then a company that sells the songs to them.

I sit back and read your scenario, I think when ever I see non famous musicians in the movies, they all seem dirt poor. I wonder if there is something to this? All my friends in the band continued working and didn't resort to doing something he couldn't do well enough to get paid for just for a meal. All of them have decent paying jobs, while one went on to become a doctor, the others took different paths and became lawyers or started their own companies doing stuff they were good at doing.

So as I see it, your brother doesn't need people to stop sharing music, he need to either get better or find a real job. It would be nice if we could all live in la la land, but when our parents kick us out, we have to think about real life and get on with it. You could probably do your brother a favor by telling him to get a job. It doesn't mean he has to give up his playing or the band, it just means he needs ot take care of himself first.

Re:*sigh* (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20097961)

We cut a few tracks and all, played a few bars

Well there's your problem, your tracks need to be a lot longer than a few bars if you want people to buy them.

*ba-dum pshht!* (1)

the Plums in us (1040258) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098121)

Never has a rimshot been more appropriate for a Slashdot comment! Well done.

Re:*sigh* (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098249)

Very insightful. I know of bands that did what you did, but made it to earn a living of the music and went full time there.

If you are good enough you will get recognized.

P.s being musician full time doesn't seem all that fun to me, they do crappy hours and usually clock in more hours than I would in a normal job.

Re:*sigh* (1)

kklein (900361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098277)

You were obviously older than most rock bands are when they start out. If you had a job, you are pretty much already in the "no future" camp, sad to say. I was very serious in my 20s, but as my 20s became my late 20s, I had to realize that nothing more than what I was doing was ever going to happen.

At least in those days, though, we could sell tapes and CDs and at least recoup some of the cost of making them...

How DARE you! (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098011)

Forcing us to read evidence contrary to our convenient conclusions! A troll mod for you!

Re:*sigh* (1)

Carlinya (622024) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098017)

Mod parent up please. This is a good insight, not a troll.

Re:*sigh* (3, Insightful)

untaken_name (660789) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098091)

So... I want to understand what you're saying. You're blaming your brother's band's lack of a recording contract on filesharing? Doesn't that seem a bit of a stretch to you? Should not the recording companies be held responsible? Also, how do we know that your brother and his band are doing their part to get signed? If all they're doing is waiting around for some A&R guy to download their music...well they could be waiting a while. Also, while in your brother's case, greater exposure may not have led to greater concert attendance, it seems logical that a broader base of people who know who your band is and like your music would lead to a larger pool of possible concert attendees, at the very least. This is why anecdotal evidence is poor evidence, because it is difficult to label corner cases as such without proper statistical grounding. One case is not a good sample size.

Re:*sigh* (1)

eclectro (227083) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098147)

As another poster mentioned, this could be as much a problem with the copyright law as your little brother being able to sell music.

The fact of the matter is, we are awash in music. I have more CDs than I could count, and have only a handful that I listen to on a regular basis. So your brother had better be really good to get on my CD shelf, otherwise maybe he should choose another career path.

Beyond that, the best solution to this is some kind of compulsory licensing that would keep track of the amount of music downloaded and then the artist would be compensated accordingly. But the labels are fighting this tooth and nail because they want to sell the CD for $20-$30 with the one good song on it. Compulsory licensing changes that reality.

So the big labels and corporate interests could be blamed for your brothers problems (fighting technological change instead of embracing it) as much as the downloaders. And, I really do not have much sympathy for any losses that copyright holders may have after the Copyright Term Extension Act (Sonny Bono) passed, as that stiffed the public in a *big way* what they deserved. Sorta liked congress let corporations (Disney for one) download what belonged to the public.

As you can see, the problem is not simply "teh downloaders are bad" as much as it is corporate interests and corrupted politicians.

Re:*sigh* (1)

murrdpirate (944127) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098281)

teh downloaders ARE bad. Do it all you want, I'm not saying I don't (or do!), but it's pretty ridiculous to try to justify it. If making your music free was actually a good way to make money, maybe we'd see people do it. To a certain degree it can be, but you can't just give it all away. How do you expect to have music if no one pays the people producing it? Shouldn't the musicians have the right to determine what songs (if any) they allow you to download for free? This kid spends his life producing music, and it's our right to do with it as we please? I don't understand why immaterial things get this rap. Can I steel a painting if I reimburse the artist for the cost of paint?

Re:*sigh* (1)

eclectro (227083) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098463)

Whose to say that if by some magical way that all the downloading would stop that the day after your brother would start to sell music?? Also, look at the numbers. The US has a population of 300 million people and you saw a couple hundred download your brothers music? How do you know that the downloaders didn't download the music, listen to it once, and delete it off their hard drive afterwards? I personally think that downloaders download so much music that they can only listen to a song once. I hear local musicians perform live that are good, but just because I find their music good does not inspire me to buy the CD on the back table.

The fact that your brother can't get a recording contract means nothing (and is overrated - do your research on this, the labels scam artists - look on salon.com for Courtney Love's article). It's true that musicians have to earn a living. And that was my whole point of my post that you completely missed. That copyright reform needs to take place.

To whine about the bad downloaders is extremely myopic. And if your little brother had any talent, he would find a way to get CDs made and sold himself regardless of a recording contract. If they aren't selling he needs to improve. "Good bands" sell music.

Re:*sigh* (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098153)

In other words, they are exactly where they would be regardless of piracy. Whether their albums don't sell because they're not famous enough or because nobody wants to pay makes little difference to the fact that they need to keep their day jobs. You think piracy is preventing a recording contract from falling out of the sky? Or is it your opinion that people who didn't mind downloading some songs for free equates to people who would have paid money for them, enough to set your brother up for retirement with a few months of work producing the songs?

Nobody said that making it as a musician was easy. That was true before the internet and piracy changes nothing.

Re:*sigh* (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098173)

Exactly, and now a whole lot of (fictitious) people are happily enjoy this guy's (fictitious) brother's music.

A lot of (fictitious) people benefited and the (fictitious) brother is no worse off.

It's such a shame that we live in a world where people have been trained to think in zero-sum terms about (fictitious) enjoyment itself.

Re:*sigh* (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098221)

I'm always bothered when I read articles like this because I know the Slashdot party line is always "File sharing good, fuck the content creators".
If there is a "slashdot party line" it is "fuck the distribution cartel and their obsolete business model" not the content creators. Right now, the creators are caught in the crossfire. But since your brother isn't even signed, he still has the freedom to think outside the box and step outside of the firefight.

Tell your little brother to start thinking of recorded music the same way he thinks of live music - as a performance that he can sell tickets to.

Record each live performance and then set up a paypal collection plate on his website, when the fans have put enough money into the collection plate, the band puts the MP3's up for FREE download. Promote it as concerts for people who couldn't make it to the concert.

Do the same for studio recordings -- one song, a set of songs, even the entire studio session, outtakes and all.

Sell vanity performances where, for some suitably expensive fee, a guy can have the band record a version of the song that substitutes his girlfriend/wife/kid/enemy's name in the lyrics. For even more money, perform and record THAT version live at a concert

The reason your brother is being hurt by piracy is because he's been brainwashed by the content cartel to ignore the profitable opportunities that the internet makes possible.

Yeah...I can see your point (NOT!) (1)

Newer Guy (520108) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098307)

Imagine that his band signs with a major label and gets treated like this: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html [negativland.com] Or this: http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/l ove/print.html [salon.com] Just imagine them working for FREE for their first two CD's. Filesharers are not your brother's enemies, the RIAA is! If he wants to make money off his music, have HIM make it available on his OWN web site. He should explain (respectfully) that he loves to make music, but also needs to pay the bills, so will you kindly buy some of his merchandise? Let me say this: if he comes off having YOUR attitude, I can see why no one wants to support him and his band!

Re:*sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098339)

So let me see if I understand this. Your brother was a dirt poor musician, but now thanks to copyright infringement he's a dirt poor musician with more fans? While you may see it as injustice I don't see much actual harm. Without the piracy he'd still be in the same boat, he just wouldn't have the internet to complain about.
The other thing I wonder while reading this is what the time frame is. You can't expect to get any result if your music is on the torrent sites on friday and your concert is saturday...

Re:*sigh* (1)

SlashDread (38969) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098397)

"Also, concert attendance has stayed flat"

Maybe, just maybe, the music is NOT so good?

Just happened to be browsing firehose... (4, Interesting)

distantbody (852269) | more than 7 years ago | (#20097831)

...and saw this claim:

Pirate Bay earns 20,000 Euros a day [slashdot.org]

controverisal pro-piracy website the piratebay likes to portray itself as an innocent hobby site that provides a free index without censorship, but recent facts show that the site is earning up to 20,000 Euros per day from its advertising. Taking in money on this scale puts a different slant on the motives behind the Swedish filesharing site, and could open up the runners of the site to prosecution for profiting from copyright infringement.

I wonder if that's true? The "from its advertising" part makes it sound like a load of bs fud.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (2, Insightful)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098053)

The "from its advertising" part makes it sound like a load of bs fud.
So does the "up to".

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098085)

Yeah they pull a lot of revenue. But they also have a lot of expenses, like bandwidth (100s of Mbit international) and servers. They also want to keep a good buffert so when the police raid again they can easily afford to replace all servers. They do not, afaik, make a personal gain. But even if they did, why is that so bad - they put in a lot of work and time on this site. Their motives are, and always have been, to fight the copyright system.

Remember, PirateBay was started and was running fine even when they did not make that much money off the site. Piratebay was started by guys from the "piratbyrån" - an organization in Sweden that is pro-piracy and is older than the piratebay. They hang around with guys that are very pro piracy, like Rasmus Fleicher - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasmus_Fleischer [wikipedia.org]

If the guys behind piratebay is getting rich I do not think it is due to the piratebay, but their excelent colocation service PRQ - www.prq.se.

The claim that they pull that much revenue was probably started by a swedish newspaper, I read about it a while back. The newspaper journalist tried to order the most expensive ad on the site (like full-screen front-page theme-ad) and it would be something like 20k euro / day. Such an ad normally only runs a few days and they are very rare (I have seen it once on piratebay). So it is not a good way to calculate revenue and a really lousy way to calculate profit. Furtheron that was what the ad-broker wanted, not what the piratebay actually gets. The problem I think is that the guys that write newspapers are also intrested in showing the guys in bad light, so they use bad methods on purpose to trash piratebay.

A final thing to remember that the piratebay guys (which are very young btw, all born in the 80s) are knowingly putting themselves in risk of going to jail. IMO it is very heroic to stand up for your ideals and risk your life for what you believe. Just like in US when guys fed up with england fought for independence, etc.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (1)

TodMinuit (1026042) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098287)

They do not, afaik, make a personal gain. But even if they did, why is that so bad - they put in a lot of work and time on this site. Their motives are, and always have been, to fight the copyright system.
Because then they're even worse than the record and movie companies. At least those companies do give something back, whereas The Pirate Bay is purely lining their own pockets on the backs of others.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098469)

I think a lot of people appreciate the service that the pirate bay provides.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20098479)

They give a lot back - the biggest filesharing infrastructure in the world. This is probably spreading more culture than hundreds or thousands of libraries / video stores / cinemas. Spreading culture and facilitating information sharing is a very good thing and people behind it deserve big rewards.

The record companies OTH only sell plastic disks with tiny amounts of information - they give nothing back. They just want to push crap and make money. Piratebay OTH want people to share culture/information no matter what information/culture that happens to be. This piratebay is IMO the more ethical enterprise.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (1)

famicommie (1118707) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098101)

Turn off Adblock Plus for a second and look at the ads that tpb offers. Now, I might be crazy, but I don't think that an obscure auction site or a "MEET HOT WOMEN IN YOUR AREA" site is putting out 20,000 per day for advertising.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (1)

Jeek Elemental (976426) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098119)

from TFA: "The past four months the Swedish company Eastpoint Media have sold ads for The Pirate Bay for an average of 60,000 per month."
not sure how this became 20k/day...not to mention this is the selling price, not what eventually ends up at TPB (assuming the numbers are correct, which theyre probably not).

Anyway I hope they make a fortune, cant think of a more deserving site.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (1)

untaken_name (660789) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098175)

I don't know...if they can make 20k euros per day off the crap they advertise, then hooray for them, I say. People stupid enough to EVER click on ANY banner/website ad deserve what they get. Yes, yes, I'm sure a bunch of you will respond with your pet ads that don't suck. There are exceptions to 'most every rule, I suppose. However, in general, you can find better pricing on whatever it is they are advertising with a small amount of research. Of course, it could be worse....it could be torrentspy making all that money.
Just out of curiosity, how many people here actually read website ads? I process them out automatically nowadays. Of course, according to statbrain they get about 5mil pageviews per day. If you don't think they should advertise, how do you expect them to serve that many pages? (Note: this is a general question and is not directed at the person to whom I'm responding)

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (4, Insightful)

gaspyy (514539) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098177)

I wonder if that's true? The "from its advertising" part makes it sound like a load of bs fud.


It's hard to impossible to verify the accuracy of this claim - but it's not "bullshit" or "FUD".

I've disabled by AdBlock just to see their pages... they have FIVE ad areas (can't call them banners) as follows:
  • Top right - Auction Ads;
  • Top center - TargetPoint;
  • Left - AdultFriendFinder;
  • Right - AdBrite;
  • Bottom - Auction Ads.

I don't know about their daily impressions, click-through ratio, but they certainly get more than 1000 EUR/day from ads, and the 20,000 EUR figure doesn't seems far-fetched to me.

I won't get sucked into moral or political discussions, but anyone who thinks that they (and others) are in just for fun, are simply naïve.

Re:Just happened to be browsing firehose... (1)

catxk (1086945) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098373)

Indeed they are. But then again, running a massive site like TPB (and the many other sites they run) isn't free. And say what you like, they really are putting their necks on the lines so I can download as much music as I like. Profit or not, they give me exactly what I want and they do it in great style but definitely not without risk. That being said, the status of the economics surrounding TPB is of importance.

Excellent timing... (2)

MaJeStu (1046062) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098217)

This news couldn't have come at a better time, what with torrentspy's recent legal woes...

YouTube competitor (1)

zis000 (940783) | more than 7 years ago | (#20098409)

A few months back, the PirateBay guys talked about launched a YouTube competitor... a video sharing site. Could that be it?
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