Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Sharp Rise Seen in Chinese Patents

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the everyone-is-doing-it-so-why-can't-we dept.

Patents 110

ianare writes "According to a report by the UN's intellectual property agency, the number of requests for patents in China grew by 33% in 2005 compared with the previous year. That gives it the world's third highest number behind Japan and the United States, the agency said. China's leaders have been urging companies to become more creative, and put more of their money into developing new technology. 'Made by China' rather than simply 'Made in China' will mean that the country's economic miracle stands a far better chance of lasting longer."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

The Old Switcharoo. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201593)

Don't be surprised if in a decade, US companies are cloning Chinese products, likely using some sort of "free market" rationale.

Re:The Old Switcharoo. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201611)

First they need to stop lobbying for stronger eye-pee protection. If they do insist on digging their own graves, I'm sure China will be happy to supply the spades.

Why is this always seen as a threat? (2, Insightful)

gathas (588371) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202237)

I welcome the rest of the world starting to step up to plate and contribute. Innovation isn't a zero sum game and the more creative people working in integrated and "open" economies the better. A successful China doesn't need to be a negative to the world. The competition between G7 countries results in a net positive. Admittedly China still poses many concerns with it's repressive government. However the more integrated and successful they become, the more they have to lose by not playing by international rules. There are a billion Chinese looking to take your job, but hopefully there will also be a billion Chinese consumers looking for your goods and services.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (3, Interesting)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202301)

A successful China doesn't need to be a negative to the world.

No, but strong IP law is a negative. And once China gets seriously into the game, they'll push for even stronger laws that will have the ultimate effect of suppressing innovation as is happening in the the US and Europe. Only the big corporations will benefit. Now is the time to show them and everybody else that copyrights and patents do more harm than good.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (3, Informative)

Fuzzums (250400) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203165)

Ofcourse you realize that China here isn't the problem, but the IP system.
Do you think any African country has even the slightest chance against us or eu companies and the effect they have on regulations in general?

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (2, Informative)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203461)

Don't know how Africa enters the picture, but China has all our money. They can do whatever they want, and soon will get pretty much anything they ask for. They've tasted the raw meat of western style consumerism, and will only want more. They will "protect their interests" in the same fashion we do ours. And they have the power to do it. I doubt we can say the same for Africa at the moment. The only clout they have is the choice to buy their weaponry from us(US and Europe) or Russia and China, which is a pretty big hammer as far as the arms dealers are concerned, but has nothing to do with the copyright/patent problem. However that does little to console the drug dealers(big pharma) when they claim "eminent domain" on their products to provide affordable medical care. Heh, now that I think about it, they could have an effect on policy, but in that case, a good one.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (2, Informative)

Fuzzums (250400) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203609)

My point was like this: For years we're protecting our markets against cheap products. Products from China, products from Africa.

China somehow has managed to break through our protections (and we shouldn't whine if they're going to protect their markets, because that's exactly what we did too).

The other side of the coin is that African (and South-American countries aswell) produce a lot of goods, but we're protecting our markets so they don't get any opportunity to sell their products for a fair price.

But as long as economy is mainly a local thing we'll keep seing this, I think.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203851)

China somehow has managed to break through our protections...

Sorry for the repetition, but again, China has all our money. We have no choice. There will be no protections from Chinese goods. They have the "nuclear option" that nobody else does. China is making the rules now. That's just not the case with Africa and South America.

We are making tons of money in China too (1)

bigwiki (1111505) | more than 7 years ago | (#20205339)

China has all our money This is a wrong perception. We tend to only look at one side. But American companies are making tons of money from China too. GM, Starbucks, McDonalds, Motorola, CocaCola and every big American brand is selling their products in China and take money away from the Chinese. That's why US economy keeps growing and stock market is all time high.

Re:We are making tons of money in China too (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#20206175)

But American companies are making tons of money from China too.

That doesn't explain the trade deficit if those numbers are to be believed. Maybe those companies should pay a bit higher tax. The stock market is so high because it doesn't take into account the accrued debt or it's assuming that these companies will pay up when the loan is called. The whole system is working on credit, or faith as the case may be, and Wall Street(and the government) is doing ok because its credit rating is still good. I would like to see what happens if the public was to close its bank accounts and cut up their credit cards. It bears repeating that ours is a faith based economy, and once that faith is lost, it's "game over, man". Remember, Enron's, WorldCom's, Lincoln Savings & Loan's numbers were all pretty good, too, just they got caught cooking the books. There is no reason to believe that the whole of Wall Street isn't doing the exact same thing. Don't be deceived by those "record" numbers. They are an illusion to keep that faith alive.

Re:We are making tons of money in China too (1)

Cathbard (954906) | more than 7 years ago | (#20208911)

Iraq switched oil trade from US dollars to Euro and were trying to convince OPEC to do the same. It would have completely upset the US's fragile debt based economy if opec nations flushed their accounts of dollars for euro. We all know what happened next don't we? Now China on the other hand ..... would the US invade China if it cashed in it's dollars? I doubt it and if they did, global warming would fade into insignificance. "Thank god nuclear winter cancelled out global warming" - Taranga Leela

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20205449)

For those who are unaware of the term: "nuclear option" means the dumping of US treasuries.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20205469)

'Made in China': 99.99% of the products.
'Made by China': 00.01% of the products.

USofA wants to reduce the 'Made in China' products changing it by 'Made by China'.
China tells NO, NO and NO.

'Made in US': 99.99% of the products.
'Made by US': 00.01% of the products.

US vs China:
'Made in China': 95% of the products.
'Made in US': 5% of the products.

US wants to reverse it: IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!:
'Made by China': 5% of the products.
'Made by US': 95% of the products.

The evil truth was it:
'Made in China by China': 5% of the products.
'Made in China by US': 95% of the products.

Hahahahaha, i buy chinese products because they are cheaper.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202353)

I welcome the rest of the world starting to step up to plate and contribute.
What. The. Fuck.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen someone say on slashdot, congratulations.

Re:Why is this always seen as a threat? (1)

gathas (588371) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202801)

Thanks for taking a single line out of my post and commenting on it out of context. I'm sure you have a bright future as a tabloid journalist in front of you.

If you really need it spelled out:

Rest of World = Non G8 (USSR did invest in research)

Contribute = Investing capital into Research and Development and hence innovation.

Clearly ancient civilizations (China, India, etc.) have contributed significantly to human knowledge in the past, but post-colonial/post-WW2 these societies have not (for many reasons) had the ability (economic, political) to invest in innovation. Their recent efforts at expanding their efforts in research, development, and innovation are welcome.

Because it *is* a threat, and we can contain it. (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 7 years ago | (#20207953)

A successful China doesn't need to be a negative to the world. The competition between G7 countries results in a net positive.
In terms of quality, it's only gone downward if you don't hail from Wall Street. Quite hollow of a positive unless you're wishing to recreate the Gilded Age.

Innovation isn't a zero sum game and the more creative people working in integrated and "open" economies the better.
Innovation has yet to happen over there. It only is a haven for those who want to escape business regulation - regulation that is not tight enough.

Like the UN for some, the WTO is largely ineffective and should be left to the slave-labor nations, with a plan for the developed nations. An EU/US bilateral treaty would at least allow for some trade while allowing our own on both sides to "take care of our own". Combine that with strict "front company prohibition" regulations, then allow others to join when they meet labor, quality of life, product safety, and universal higher education admission standards. If that means China is delayed by 200 years, so be it. Slave labor is not excusable by any means.

There are a billion Chinese looking to take your job, but hopefully there will also be a billion Chinese consumers looking for your goods and services.
Improve the quality from worker to product - then we can talk trade. Otherwise cheaply made trinkets, a devalued yuan, slave labor, and those who take up slots at our educational institutions(with 1.4bn people, there should be plenty of slots over there) tend to turn that region of the world into a target. Please hope that for your sake that it does not become a military target. The longer you continue, that risk increases that it will be for a large enough population to skip economic sanctions, straight to full-on war.

Leave your hypercompetitive attitude in the sporting arena, and stop penalizing citizens from obtaining a first-class education. Otherwise you're just letting that country "juice up", largely at our expense.

Bah! Just get your own patents! (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204701)

USPTO is not shy about issuing many patents for the same idea. I'm sure they would happily issue a US patent for a CHinese idea!

Re (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201603)

I, for one, welcome our creative chinese overlords!

Re:Re (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201645)

Yes, we need those creative Chinese to come to Slashdot to teach us some new jokes.

Re:Re (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202591)

ma ma qi ma. ma hen man. ma ma ma ma.

/Not a joke.
//Is a Chinese tongue-twister.
///I left off the tone marks on purpose
////Close enough?

PS...

"Mom rides horse. Horse is slow. Mom scolds horse."

Re:Re (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20203153)

Even insults don't cross the cultural divide. For example;

Creativity == Patent? (2, Informative)

biocute (936687) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201661)

So filing and (maybe) getting patents granted equals creativity?

I think we have seen enough "Creative Patenting" that are comparable to "Creative Accounting".

Re:Creativity == Patent? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201887)

I cannot agree. Creative accounting at least requires some thinking and finding loopholes in the sys.... ok, you're right.

For the Chinese, creativity == IP theft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202329)

Everyone knows the Chinese are one of the most active countries in terms of spying for the purposes of IP theft - especially dual-use technology for their military. They don't create designs - they set up front-companies and then steal them like they did with the AEGIS combat system. Funny how the Chinese built a system remarkably like AEGIS so quickly...

Re:For the Chinese, creativity == IP theft (1)

DaedalusHKX (660194) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203193)

Amazing how the same can be said for the west. Echelon via the UN/US SigInt operations was merely one that became public, and recall that the Europeans actually bitched about Echelon being used to steal IP info more than spy on their buddies at the KGB.

Surprised that the same strategy would be turned against its maker? As I recall the Chinese also invented gunpowder, fireworks, a complex alphabet, kung fu, and they had this funny short ugly guy called Sun Tzu in our language, who just happened to pretty much invent the basis for modern tactics, on the battle field AND in the board room. They're just applying it to us now. Good for them. Bad for us though.

Have I missed anything?

Re:Creativity == Patent? (1)

4105 (819650) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204249)

Please keep in mind that these patents are actually cheap knock offs of other peoples patents. (but they cost less, and contain lead, and might have ground up melamine etc.)

Compare quality patents only (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204739)

but patents are one measure to determine the way the industrial trends are moving.

Using patents as a scoreboad are stupid though. I expect USA is over represented in http://www.patentlysilly.com/ [patentlysilly.com] . To use patents as a meaningful indicator needs better analysis than just raw numbers. Rather you need to look at the rate of patenting high quality (impoortant and non-duplicate) ideas.

Number is not an issue. (1)

zzztkf (574953) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201677)

The number of patents is not an issue. Contents of patents is.
No matter how many patents are recoginzed. It's another issue whether they can influence the world by them.

Like my father always said... (1)

psychicsword (1036852) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201723)

Quality not Quantity

Re:Like my father always said... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201789)

Wow, your mom must have been hot!

Re:Number is not an issue. (1)

Loke the Dog (1054294) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201795)

The thing with inventions is that its very hard to know beforehand if it will be profitable or not.

Basically, all professionals who work creatively, be it inventors, artists or advertising people, work with quantity rather than quality. When they have enough quantity, they begin sorting it out for the quality.

My point is that if the quantity increases by 30%, the quality might not increase by as much, but it would be strange if it did not increase at all, because quantity is the foundation for quality. Without quantity, its almost impossible to get quality.

Rice (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201679)

Am I the only one that read that as "Sharp Rice Seen in Chinese Patents"? :(

Everyone in the West... (2, Funny)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201713)


...can relax now - because that's China's super economic growth taken care of.

Re:Everyone in the West... (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204559)

and next they discover the wonders of "general liability", "class action lawsuits" and then they begin their decline as an empire.

Re:Everyone in the West... (1)

SageMusings (463344) | more than 7 years ago | (#20208169)

...Which they will reject out-of-hand. Remember, they play by THEIR rules.

I wonder if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20201753)

...toxic toys, poison pet food and yummy cardboard buns (yes it was a hoax but still patentable) are among them?

Re:I wonder if... (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202017)

You forgot the lethal toothpaste...

Re:I wonder if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202113)

You forget the soon-to-be-worthless dollars paid in exchange...

Re:I wonder if... (3, Insightful)

yahyamf (751776) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202217)

That's an interesting point. The Chinese sell low quality goods and get paid in a low quality currency in exchange. They are holding over a trillion US dollars and stand to lose quite a bit due to rapid devaluation by the US Fed. However, the depreciating dollars do not exclusively affect China. It affects everyone with dollar denominated assets, especially Americans. Just look at the increasing prices of basic necessities like food and gas in recent years.


Sure, China might take a hit on their huge USD reserves, but in the mean while, they have built hundreds of factories, infrastructure and acquired real skills and real wealth. McDonalds recently announced [google.com] a 30% pay raise for its employees in China. When was the last time that happened in the US?


They are also gaining political influence in countries with rich natural resources, such as in Africa and the Middle East. That influence would remain long after the dollar loses its reserve currency status. Their stockpile of dollars is also being used to threaten [telegraph.co.uk] the US itself.

Re:I wonder if... (1)

MotorMachineMercenar (124135) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202381)

Correction: it's 1+ trillion dollar _equivalent_. Dollars account for 30-60 of that 1+ trillion, which is still more than any other country's reserves, including the US.

How China is "competitive" on the global market (2, Informative)

pkbarbiedoll (851110) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202383)

1) Force people to work for a pittance
2) Allow children to make toxic toys for Americans
3) No minimum hours per week, no overtime
4) IP theft
5) Lax environmental regulations

But most of all, at least relating to America's 850 billion dollar trade deficit (as of 2007), is the fact that China artificially lowers [npr.org] the Yaun [senate.gov] to appear more competitive on the global market. This practice alone has decimated U.S. manufacturing sector and is why we have a nearly 1 trillion dollar trade deficit - with no end in sight.

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202673)

1) Force people to work for a pittance

A pittance in the US is a decent wage in China. A standard year of work in the US, is slave labor in France.

2) Allow children to make toxic toys for Americans

Don't buy them.

3) No minimum hours per week, no overtime

Did you mean Maximum hours? There are laws. Enforcement is lax, but they do exist. I'm in China. I get overtime, paid vacations, paid health insurance.

4) IP theft

And this is different from anyone else?

5) Lax environmental regulations

Yes. Kinda similar to the US 100 years ago.

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20203147)

Whoever said communism doesnt work :(
Kind of sad considering that china is much more evil than soviet union ever was...

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20203431)

Kind of sad considering that china is much more evil than soviet union ever was...
I'm sorry. What? While there are certainly mayor issues, you can't honestly say that the current China is more evil than Stalins Soviet Union, can you?

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (1)

SageMusings (463344) | more than 7 years ago | (#20208263)

Well the "Great Leap Forward" did cause major famine and death. Whereas in the Soviet Union there was a lot malice at work, the Chinese suffered from incompetence. The result, however, was the same.

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204535)

Whoever said communism doesnt work :(

It doesn't work, which is why the CCP has changed its strategy. Basically, the CCP should be standing for "Chinese Capitalist Party" these days, but within an authoritarian framework.

Lax Environmental Regulations (1)

pkbarbiedoll (851110) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204639)

Yes. Kinda similar to the US 100 years ago.
The difference is that, now, we know better.

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20205815)

while there may be laws, rampant corruption renders them useless.

Some, good reading here:

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0706/featur e4/ [nationalgeographic.com]

Re:How China is "competitive" on the global market (1)

thanatos_x (1086171) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204551)

The last point is very big. See also the fact that George Bush will probably be the best president China ever had, just like Nevile Chamberlin was the best Prime Minister Germany ever had.

Re:I wonder if... (1)

glitch23 (557124) | more than 7 years ago | (#20207049)

However, the depreciating dollars do not exclusively affect China. It affects everyone with dollar denominated assets, especially Americans. Just look at the increasing prices of basic necessities like food and gas in recent years.

Although you could argue the empirical behind gas going up in price is due to the dollar depreciating I take a difference stance on the matter. First, food goes up in price more multiple reasons but a big one is due to the cost of transportation, i.e. gas. When gasoline goes up other companies have to raise prices to compensate. As far as gasoline going up in price, this is due to multiple reasons. I believe the biggest reason is the asshole investors/speculators/analysts who jack up the oil prices because the National Hurricane Center simply produces a report on their guess for the current year's hurricane predictions. Then oil prices go up again because an actual hurricane develops 3000 miles away. Then prices go up again when the hurricane gets close to the States. Prices go up because of conflict in Nigeria or the mere *possibility* that shipping lanes in the Middle East could be blocked. Prices go up again when an oil refinery has a fire or needs maintenance work done so it has to shutdown. This year couldn't have been the only year refineries need maintenance; why prices went up this time because of it is purely for greed. The investors jack up the prices and then sell when they think they took advantage of the system to the greatest extent possible.

Companies like Exxon, Sunoco, BP, and others are partly at fault but for the longest time, and especially the last couple years, it's investors who dictate the price of oil/gasoline contracts who are making gas prices go up and the bad thing is they don't go down to where they used to be. As you can see by this chart [westvirgin...prices.com] gas prices will have minor fluctuations where July's price, for example, may be lower than June's but July of given year will almost always be higher than the Julys of previous years. Analysts always look for reasons to make prices go up. Of course, now we have issues of global demand with it every increasing as China needs more oil and gasoline taxes imposed by the state/federal government are never going away (and may go up due to the supposed need of saving money for revamping the nation's infrastructure). It's always something.

All your PC are belong to us! (1)

Dark_Gravity (872049) | more than 7 years ago | (#20207149)

That's an interesting point. The Chinese sell low quality goods
Nearly every computing component is made in China (or Taiwan which is ultimately China). Are these the low quality goods of which you speak?

And the Swiss? (1)

lixee (863589) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201757)

Where do Switzerland fall in all this? I thought they were 3rd.

chinese patents are increasing (2, Funny)

zmollusc (763634) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201763)

to settle bets on whether patents are just a crazy foreign legend.
'No way, man. Someone is just messing with you!'
'I swear it is true, you just find something that isn't yet patented, like breathing or clicking on a triangle instead of a box, then get a patent on that, then sue everybody'
'Bullcrap!'
'Ok, I will patent something myself. That will show you.'

Re:chinese patents are increasing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20204655)

They are a crazy foreign legend.

Sucks to be western. (2, Interesting)

miffo.swe (547642) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201799)

I think the US had big hopes for selling IP to china. After having outsource pretty much anything that can be outsourced war and IP is pretty much all there is to export from USA. If China leaps ahead of US sience and production its going to be the west who stands there with their pants down and hat in hand. All this because of extreem shortsighted greed that made everyone outsource their factories instead of making them more effective. It would have been much better in the long run to have sold complete products to china instead.

Re:Sucks to be western. (1)

Eighty7 (1130057) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202045)

That's exactly it. Due to the large amounts of cheap labor, China's entrance into trade/production acted just like rapid technological progress or a massive supply shock. Nations replaced higher-cost suppliers with lower-cost ones just as they would have if production technology advanced at home. Frankly companies didn't really have much of a choice.

Re:Sucks to be western. (2, Insightful)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202287)

Not only did China get ahead with cheap labour but also with poor working conditions, no pollution restrictions, minimum or no safety/ health conditions and corruption to grease the wheels of profit for those autocrats running the corporofascist society.

One reason for the shift to IP instead of production could quite simply be because China is currently quite busily polluting itself to death. As the level of toxic elements rises in the environment it will be interesting to see what future chemical chain reactions will occur and how high the death toll will rise.

Meanwhile those who reaped the profits while destroying their country will be seeking means by which to bail with their wealth intact and seek to secure future means of income.

Re:Sucks to be western. (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202569)

You have no !@#%ing idea what you're talking about. Corporofascist? Whose ass did that come out of? I live in China, and I'm chummy with a lot of bigshot local government types, and nothing is like you describe.

Re:Sucks to be western. (1)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204763)

Even if the crazy "corporofascist neocon bastards bla bla" poster has no idea about Chinese government, China is one of the most polluted countries in the world.

The pollution has to do with how China implemented globalization. They forsake the environment in order to catch up with the rest of the major powers. I guess they're leveraging the land in that tech will fix it later.

Re:Sucks to be western. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202155)

The funniest part? You know that all these companies, in order to open shop, have had to work with a local partner.
Which means, that in 10-15 years, the Chinese will be sitting with all this infrastructure and know how, and then where will we be? Fucked, that's where.

Everyone who played a part in selling us out to these fucks should be jailed for treason.

Fuck the Chinese.

Re:Sucks to be western. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20203015)

insovietchina,thechinesefuckYOU

Re:Sucks to be western. (0, Troll)

Auldclootie (1131129) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202259)

USE A SPELL CHECKER! Useless bloody grade 4 English submissions by dyslexic retards... grumble grumble - least you can do when you know you have the writing talents of Shakespeare's dog is GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF... OK /I feel better now //have a nice day

You're forgetting that a lot of these patents are (1)

melted (227442) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204343)

You're forgetting that a lot of these patents are by US companies that have research centers in China. IBM, Microsoft, Nokia - those are on the first page of what Google returns for "research centers in beijing".

I for one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20204379)

welcome our new Chinese overlords... Wait a second, there's no way I'm giving up my democratic rights. I'm very happy with the country that I'm already in.

Starts grinding away to be more productive and competitive.

Now maybe they will start to respect IP Law (2, Interesting)

bomanbot (980297) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201861)

Well, if China begins to invest massively in their own research and thus begins filiing patents and such, at some point they will really have to enforce some sort of IP Law to protect their own innovations and interests.

Up until now, for all those cheap chinese knock-offs and blatant copies of other companies work, disregarding IP Law in China was actually useful, but with own patents and ideas, I would guess that chinese companies will be enforcing IP Law more strictly in the future because now disregarding IP Law will actually harm them.

And yes IP Law can be useful, even if Patent Law is completely stupid and borderline dangerous at the moment. Because laws and rules of handling intellectual property can also encompass things like the GPL or the Creative Commons Licenses and I think it could be useful if such things can be enforced in China more strictly in the future.

Don't say IP. Say copr., patent, TM, or secret. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202325)

at some point they will really have to enforce some sort of IP Law to protect their own innovations and interests.
By "IP law", do you mean "copyright law", "patent law", "trademark law", or "trade secret law"? The exclusive rights under these four legal traditions have different purposes, different scopes, and different durations. Painting them all with the broad stroke of "intellectual property" confuses the issue more than it helps anyone [fsf.org] .

Re:Now maybe they will start to respect IP Law (1)

Znork (31774) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202387)

"And yes IP Law can be useful"

Monopoly law is always useful for those holding the monopolies. They can get revenue without having to produce a competetive product or service to obtain that revenue.

China realizes this as well as the rest of the WIPO crowd; once you've built up your fortune, the free market will keep chipping away at it unless you either remain competetive or prevent competition. As remaining competetive is hard work, it's much easier to simply create monopoly vehicles to invest in.

I doubt it's a coincidence that it happens as the yuan appreciates and the dollar approaches free-fall. Once the economic equilibrium is restored, China can double-whammy the US with intellectual monopolies to keep any wealth reflux from happening.

Ah, well, they've learned from the best, so it's no big surprise they've gotten a taste for screwing others over.

Will they heed patents as a result? (0)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#20201901)

Ok, who did the feat? Who is that miracle worker that stopped the Chinese economy steamroller?

Because that could very well be the only thing that keeps the Chinese from taking over world economy. When they now start playing the patent game and actually heed patents (due to having some parts of the cake now, too), they'll do the same everyone does who has them: Stop making and start suing.

Whew. Our industry is saved. By dragging them down to our level.

We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us (2, Interesting)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202151)

What does it say about free-market capitalism that we so fear that China will become like US?

Or am I the only one who worries about another patent-grabbing, carbon-swilling, profit-hungry, consumer-driven super-economy on the planet, this one with a billion jean-wearing, Starbucks-guzzling, Wal-Mart-shopping para-Americans?

You can bet that the Western Paul Wolfowitz, IMF-types are trying to figure out a way to put that genie back in the bottle. After all, they may say that global warming is a myth or "not affected by human activity" but that's only for public consumption. When they're sitting around their Emperor of Earth Gentleman's Club, you best believe they know better.

"But first" they say, "we have to get those damn Chinese to buy into the intellectual property thing. Otherwise our whole house of cards comes down. Now pass me some-a them quail hearts, son. The donkey show starts in a few minutes."

Reply:We Have Met t and He Is Wai Funny (1)

OldHawk777 (19923) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202475)

Good one! (Sorry, I ain't got no points)

May the gods bless EU, US, and one and all with more plutocratic exploit corporatism.

Re:We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202705)

You can bet that the Western Paul Wolfowitz, IMF-types ...

A person reasonably up to date with respect to current events would know that it was recently determined (by people who are in a position to decide WTF an "IMF-type" is) that Mr. Wolfowitz is decidedly not one of them.

Conspiracy theorists or those in the habit of carrying placards and/or smashing windows in advocacy of certain social causes may hold a different view, of course. ;-)

China: Land of respect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202201)

" China's leaders have been urging companies to become more creative, and put more of their money into developing new technology. 'Made by China' rather than simply 'Made in China' will mean that the country's economic miracle stands a far better chance of lasting longer.""

Patents don't mean a thing if people don't respect them.

This is good for the US (1)

rollingcalf (605357) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202263)

Having the Chinese industries bogged down in patent disputes will slow down their innovation like what has happened in the US, thereby allowing the US to compete with them on a more level playing field.

Level the playing field? (1, Informative)

pkbarbiedoll (851110) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202401)

The playing field could be leveled by forcing China to stop artificially lowering [npr.org] the Yaun [senate.gov] , which makes China appear more competitive on the global market. This practice alone has decimated U.S. manufacturing sector and is why we have a nearly 1 trillion dollar trade deficit - with no end in sight.

Re:Level the playing field? (2, Funny)

afabbro (33948) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202595)

To paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson, "Revaluing the Yaun just slaps at the problem. Nerve gas solves it."

China's Miracle? (3, Insightful)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202359)

Come now, you have dirt cheap labor, little to no government environmental/personnel regulation, and a fixed yuan-dollar ratio. There's no miracle, it's just simple economics. Had China not been closed for so many years, they would have reached this point a couple of decades ago.

China will find the same problem that the west has - everyone want's to be upper (or middle) class eventually. Very few in China are reaping the benfits of the changes, and many are happy just to make a better living than they had before. Eventually, thier children - or children's children - will want far more, and will expect more. A growing middle class will not put up with the destruction of their natural environment and unsafe (or "unfair" - definine it as you wish) working conditions. Pressure will be placed on the govenerment from many sides, and the government will start changing things.

It is simply a matter of time before things change. There are still places where manufacturing is cheap in the US. There are places in the US where $50k can provide a pleasant lifestyle for a family, and $80-90k is the local upper class. And some of those places are pretty darned nice places to live. Some may think those numbers are high, and those of you in the major metro areas will wonder how anyone can afford groceries on such an income. (Hint: in the next town over from me, there are new, 2000SF houses on a acre of land selling for under $100/sf, and taxes are under 1% of the value) As the middle class increases in China, the same wage pressures will occur, and - if they ever de-link their currency - it's going to result in the cost of goods from China increasing at a dramatic rate.

There will be more IP based production - it's the hallmark of modern civilization. Interestingly, I think we will find globalization retreat a bit in the next 50 years. As the cost of production increases in low-wage markets, transportation costs will shift marginal items back to a local advantage. This may become accellerated by the increasing cost for fuel (which, imho, is artificially inflated by the speculation markets...but that's another show). It will not put things back to the 1960s or 70s, but a new dynamic balance will form.

Re:China's Miracle? (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202511)

I tend to agree with you. Historically speaking, people generally won't work for peanuts forever, and if they don't get a slice of the pie bad things happen. Still, will America even have a viable manufacturing sector in the next five or ten years, much less the decades it will take for the processes you describe to have their effect? A lot of things are happening very quickly right now, and I don't know if we have so much time.

What we are seeing are not natural market forces at work. China's economic "miracle" has been performed at the expense of the rest of the industrialized world (America in particular but Europe is being hit as well.) China's government has taken a number of calculated steps intended to acquire as much wealth, technology and scientific knowledge as possible in as short a time frame as they can manage. Their methods for doing so are destructive to other economies: granted, they simply exploited our weaknesses but nevertheless they are not good neighbors. When I dealing with a foreign company I'll choose one from Europe, thank you very much. You can do business with them ... they understand that good business means everyone walks away from the table with something.

Personally, I don't think we should be doing business with China at all (not that we have any choice in the matter at the moment) until they clean up their act. I doubt that's going to happen. I doubt they know how to make that happen. I know that we don't.

Re:China's Miracle? (1)

Beetle B. (516615) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204425)

"When I dealing with a foreign company I'll choose one from Europe, thank you very much. You can do business with them ... they understand that good business means everyone walks away from the table with something.
Yes, like the folks who funded a slave driven diamond industry in Africa?

Or like the vulture funds in the US that work towards depriving basic necessities such as education [democracynow.org] in third world countries?

Or those that go around supporting the murder [wikipedia.org] of union leaders in Colombia.

Or those that decide that it's OK to make water unaffordable [wikipedia.org] for the folks in Bolivia.

Or those that fund [wikipedia.org] a terrorist group so that they can earn a larger profit?

Oh - I'm sorry. These guys just aren't guilty of being Chinese. Everything is fine in that case.

Re:China's Miracle? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202985)

"Come now, you have dirt cheap labor, little to no government environmental/personnel regulation, and a fixed yuan-dollar ratio."

It's not just that. They have some pretty neat ideas:

The Chinese do not let big foreign firms build large factories in China unless they also build research and development buildings. This means that companies cannot just build some real low cost factory to make cheap parts, but they have to train, invest in highly personnel and actually develop the products in China.
It also makes it harder for companies to pull out after a couple of years when labour gets cheaper somewhere else.

There are some other little business/legal arrangements that will leave China in a very good position once they start to enforce IP. Shrewd people.

Re:China's Miracle? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203069)

Hey, I didn't say it wasn't unintentional - just not a miracle. When you look at your resources and the demands of the world, then figure out how to capitalize, that's not rocket science. Bargaining from your strength is the way any sucessful business works. The question to be answered is whether or not the power base has the forethought to anticipate the upcoming changes.

It's no secret that some of the gulf states (UAE comes to mind) are taking the phenominal oil revenues they are generating and putting that money into other industries (tourism, particularly), in anticipation that the oil game won't last forever. That's a smart move, imho, though they are being a bit dramatic with it. It may or may not prove economically viable in the future (the hair salon owner/wife of a doctor who's shop has marble floors and an espresso counter comes to mind), but it may be enough splash to give them the momentum it takes to be a self sustaining economy without the mountain of reserve cash. Las Vegas manages to do it.

Re:China's Miracle? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20203519)

"Hey, I didn't say it wasn't unintentional - just not a miracle. When you look at your resources and the demands of the world, then figure out how to capitalize, that's not rocket science. Bargaining from your strength is the way any sucessful business works. The question to be answered is whether or not the power base has the forethought to anticipate the upcoming changes."

I re read your first post and understand.

"A growing middle class will not put up with the destruction of their natural environment and unsafe (or "unfair" - definine it as you wish) working conditions. Pressure will be placed on the govenerment from many sides, and the government will start changing things."

Yes I see this starting in Hong Kong island. The middle class complain about knocking down old buildings, HK harbour is filthy etc. They do not have much influence but it would not be thought of to complain in such a way ten years ago. Everyone goes to HK and wants it to be like that at home.

"It's no secret that some of the gulf states (UAE comes to mind) are taking the phenominal oil revenues they are generating and putting that money into other industries (tourism, particularly), in anticipation that the oil game won't last forever. That's a smart move, imho, though they are being a bit dramatic with it. It may or may not prove economically viable in the future (the hair salon owner/wife of a doctor who's shop has marble floors and an espresso counter comes to mind), but it may be enough splash to give them the momentum it takes to be a self sustaining economy without the mountain of reserve cash. Las Vegas manages to do it."

Marble floor hair salon is just the thing!
There is a pattern with the Saudis. Once you have enough money you have to do a status project. It's usually the big concrete factory, tomato canning plant or something.
Now, its to build some big hotel complex out in the desert. They look great, and no one goes there and then it falls down. :)
It does not matter though, as the next rich investor will do the identical thing again!

Stolen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202405)

I wonder how many % of those patents were just stolen ideas from the rest of the world that hadn't been patented yet in China.

Oh, so *now* they care about patents? (2, Insightful)

Fear the Clam (230933) | more than 7 years ago | (#20202479)

I'm sure the rest of the world will treat Chinese IP with the same respect that they've shown for the rest of the world.

Knowing China's penchant for taking shortcuts, I'd double-check every one of those patents against existing registries.

Re:Oh, so *now* they care about patents? (1)

w000t (1141427) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203569)

Yes, I'm sure we'll find that, unlike the patents submitted by the rest of the world, the ones submitted by China will be just a regurgitation of obvious ideas for which previous art can be easily found.

Re:Oh, so *now* they care about patents? (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203727)

yeah, its laughable to mention china and 'IP rights' in the same sentence.

I was designing a hardware device and started to investigate what it would take to have it built in china. I got some ideas on the cost of plastic molding and the circuit layout and I started to shop around for partners in china.

then it dawned on me - I would be doing all the design work and paying for the prototypes and mold for the plastic boxes; and guess what - there is NO assurance that all my hard work would be respected and that my design would not find its way into some other shop that would make 10x or 100x as many as I could afford (for the first run) and then they'd be laughing all the way to the bank - at mostly my expense.

I soon gave up on the idea since I don't have any experience dealing with international prototype design and construction. the risk was too great and I did not TRUST them to honor my design and keep it private.

so I gave up. I did not pursue it any farther. I really did not want to DONATE a design to a culture that has zero respect for actual designers.

what's needed is tit-for-tat. the US companies should totally blunder all of china's IP and completely ignore any so-called patents they have. its only fair if we BOTH play by the same rules, right?

Re:Oh, so *now* they care about patents? (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203749)

oops. sed /blunder/plunder/

doh!

(hmmm, freudian?)

quality? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20202717)

I used to work in a major Chinese telecom firm's software branch here in 'outsource-land'. A lot of the patents going in are utter crap (like they just invented caching, and other basic CS stuff).

A basic strategy used here is to select a good open source implementation of whatever-is-needed, convert it to closed source (mostly code-style changes and variable name changes, yes i've done tht and seen it happening a lot), followed by few of the /top/ developers submitting patents from any of the software's features.

You certainly do get large numbers of patents, but don't even start to think of what they are and where they came from (not to mention umpteen hidden license violations).

'Stolen By China' More likely (3, Informative)

JasperCraft (719987) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203029)

I've talked to several people who have run into their own patents being rewritten in Chinese and patented in China by someone in China. Its amazing what they are allowing, simple google searches would reveal the patent is a copy and yet, seemingly totally legal. I wonder how many of this rise in patents is due to this policy/process/scam? However, as one of my language professors once said, translations are often creative.

it's not a miracle (4, Insightful)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203235)

'Made by China' rather than simply 'Made in China' will mean that the country's economic miracle stands a far better chance of lasting longer.

I suppose it was a "miracle" when we used slaves here in the US to do farming, build railroads, etc?

They have 1/5 the total world population...current estimate: 1,321,851,888.

Japan has 127,433,494 people.

And the US? 301,139,947.

China has more than 3 times the population of Japan and the US combined.

Further, China is taking the cheapest route on everything, and is suffering for it. The air quality there is horrendous, the water isn't drinkable - hell, we'll need to worry about them invading someone soon just so they can find someplace to be able to breathe. Cutting corners, doing no pollution control, no sanitation efforts...yeah, of course you can make extra $$ that way. At what cost, though.

The only miraculous thing here is that they are doing so poorly despite these and other things massively in their favor.

Re:it's not a miracle (1)

asm2750 (1124425) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203495)

Didn't some one say it would be a couple of decades before all of their environmental and social problems catch up that will be come a total cluster f***?

Re:it's not a miracle (2, Insightful)

w000t (1141427) | more than 7 years ago | (#20203847)

What? Are you saying that a population that big is actually something in their favor? It's not, that's why they have birth control laws. Unlike some people here seem to believe, China is not building an army to overtake the world (which is about the one scenario where having such a big population would be a good thing).
Now, what I really don't get is why everyone seems is so concerned with China becoming a wealthy country... Shouldn't the fact that 1/5 of the world population lives there make it a good thing?

Re:it's not a miracle (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204943)

for creating GDP, a larger population is most certainly a benefit. I can't fathom why you would think elsewise.

Re:it's not a miracle (1)

w000t (1141427) | more than 7 years ago | (#20206725)

Well, that's any obvious meaningless truth. Of course they're bound to have an enormous GDP: they represent one fucking fifth of the planet. The fact they are not even close to that (according to Wikipedia less than 1/20) says that they are actually doing pretty bad. The GDP alone says little about how well a country is doing if you don't take into account the country's population. I would much rather be in the Norwegian situation (or a any other under populated European country) than China's.

Re:it's not a miracle (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#20208999)

which is what I said. China's economy is no "miracle," it is actually very poor, considering all the things going for it (China's economy, not China's future or its citizenry).

Now that I've repeated myself...

Re:it's not a miracle (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204609)

I'll never forget the day I was in Shanghai and saw three men breaking up a sideway with jackhammers. All three had their faces covered in white concrete dust. Not really a big deal until you realize they were *not* wearing any eye protection and masks.

WTF?! Seriously, if I had some safety goggles, I would have ran off the bus and handed them out. I mean, either these men are ignorant, or simply don't care about personal safety.

Boggles the mind!

Re:it's not a miracle (1)

ghyd (981064) | more than 7 years ago | (#20205441)

"The only miraculous thing here is that they are doing so poorly despite these and other things massively in their favor."

But poorly on which count, there are many things to evaluate! they seem to do reasonably well all in all, like at quickly industrializing and urbanizing, and also improving their life expectancy which is now is now 71 years old. They also seem to catch up quick in the personal income area, as you can see in the first of the following links when it is compared to US incomes:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/92 [ted.com]
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/140 [ted.com]
http://tools.google.com/gapminder/ [google.com]

They seem to do reasonably well in many areas given where they come from, but maybe I'm only noting this because there's not many positives outlook on China in our, I believe, fearful societies, and I'm finally surprised by the relevant statistics.

Pants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20203931)

Thought I read "Sharp Rise Seen in Chinese Pants".

I've had too much nerd fighters videos, I guess.

My rights? (1)

Beetle B. (516615) | more than 7 years ago | (#20204441)

Is it just me, or can someone explain intelligently (with backup) as to why this is an issue regarding our rights online? Sounds like a lot of FUD to me.

Two words... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20207381)

Nuke China

With SCO largely gone... (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 7 years ago | (#20207965)

...will Darl try his game there, or will he wisely avoid signing his own death sentence by becoming a patent troll there?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?