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PSP Wi-Fi Impairs Processor Speed

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the interesting-design-choice dept.

Portables (Games) 57

GameDaily reports that the PlayStation Portable has an interesting restriction: its full processor power cannot be utilized at the same time as its WiFi functionality. Therefore, games that are played online cannot make use of the chip's 333mhz processor speed. The original finding from Beyond 3D was confirmed to GameDaily by Sony. Dave Karraker, Sr. Director, Corporate Communications: "The recent firmware upgrade (3.50) that removed the restriction on the PSP's CPU speed enables developers to utilize speeds either lower or higher than the default 222MHz, up to the full 333MHz clock speed. The article is correct that increased CPU speed cannot be used with the PSP's wireless feature." Though speculation is that this is a power-saving decision, there has been no official announcement as to the root cause.

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There is no limit (1)

Samalie (1016193) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217119)

It just goes to show - when Sony puts their top minds in a room, there's nothing they can do.

(Hey, lets face it, despite this exact article being a Sony "fuckup", one could apply my comment above to pretty much ANY company)

They don't use their top minds (1)

Travoltus (110240) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217207)

They bring their bean counters and market droids in to decide how to make a product - the same fools that are spiraling Sony into an all too American "fiscal quarter by fiscal quarter" style of corporate myopia.

Sony's (and other companies') top minds do the bidding of these bean counters and market droids.

Small, agile companies are the ones who let their top minds steer the product development ship.

Re:There is no limit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20223507)

there's something wrong with your account. Please click "reply to this" and type your password.

Re:There is no limit (1)

mikkelm (1000451) | more than 7 years ago | (#20225335)

dekooluoy

ummm... root cause.... (1, Insightful)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217127)

Though speculation is that this is a power-saving decision, there has been no official announcement as to the root cause.

I would think that the root cause would be the network stack and packet processing overhead that occurs when the item is networked... but I am just thinking like an engineer here...

Re:ummm... root cause.... (2, Insightful)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217277)

Processing overhead would explan reduced game performance, but not the need for a lower clock speed.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (1)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217717)

They might be intentionally reducing the clock speed to prevent reduced game performance.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20228359)

They might be intentionally reducing the clock speed to prevent reduced game performance.
What kind of screwy parallel dimension do you inhabit?

Re:ummm... root cause.... (3, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217807)

Yeah. I'm thinking power consumption is by far the most likely cause. Of course I don't have any numbers for how much power an actively transmitting wifi chip uses, or the PSP's processor at various frequencies. However given the power budgets of portable devices, I'm guessing the answer is "a lot, relatively" in both cases.

If the PSP processor requires a higher voltage to run at 333MHz, then I'd say this answer is a shoe-in. Power scales linearly with frequency, so going from 222MHz to 333 is a 50% increase in power. But it scales with the square of voltage, so if a higher voltage is needed to run at the higher frequency then that could increase the power requirement of the CPU such that there is no power budget left for the wifi.

Other possibilities? I dunno... a wonky synchronizer between the wifi and cpu clock domains that makes a bad assumption about wifi chip vs cpu/bus speed? I've certainly seen that happen, but I'm really guessing as to whether it applies to the psp or not.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20222433)

I think Sony can design multiple clock domain systems by now. What they can't do is work around the fundamental technological limitations of batteries. The PSP system is heavy on the battery already if you have the UMD running, sound at maximum volume, WiFi enabled and the game is using a lot of CPU. At 222MHz the CPU seems to require about 2W (flat out) while the WiFi seems to require about 1W and the UMD takes maybe a little less. The entire system consumption is only about 4W. Increasing clock rate by 50% would indeed take the same amount of power as used by WiFi.

Also, I know this is circular logic, but once you accept this theory it explains perfectly why the original 222MHz limitation existed.

(PS: wattage estimates based on information here: http://www.tinyted.net/eddie/ppb/PspPowerBrick.htm l [tinyted.net] )

Re:ummm... root cause.... (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#20230609)

As I thought I made clear, I was only speculating on other -possible- reasons for the issue; obviously power is by far the most likely reason.

BTW, synchronizers are tough circuits to get right, and your thought that Sony can design it is matched by ample evidence from many other designers of at least equal caliber who have designed synchronizers that fail outside certain assumptions. It's not a slight on Sony, it's an engineering reality. So if the synchronizer designer was told the psp cpu only went up to 222 MHz and built it to that specification it is quite feasible that it would later fail.

But that's just a possibility, and I don't even know if they use a synchronizer. The other possibility that someone else brought up was that all the chips are locked to multipliers of bus frequency, bringing up the chance that the higher processor frequency is an effect of a higher bus frequency which could result in the wi-fi chip operating at a higher frequency than it was designed for.

Anyway, I think we all agree that it's power issues.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (1)

jnik (1733) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217323)

That would be true if the were simply "The PSP is slower when networked". However, the actual clock speed of the processor is decreased.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217351)

You do realize that's exactly backwards, right? If the overhead is an issue, they would need MORE processor speed, not less.

When the speed is reduced, it's not like it's still running full speed but only using 2/3 of it... it's running at 2/3 speed.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (4, Insightful)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217443)

or it maybe that when the cpu is running at 333 the system bus is running to fast for the wi-fi chip like how when you overclock the FSB on older MB's the pci bus and other buses speed up as well to a point where it is too fast for the cards / chips on that bus.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217521)

Yeah, this seems like a more likely explanation than the battery issue. It's better than my thought that maybe the wireless driver needs a lot of CPU so when it's actually in use the clock is silently boosted in the background to compensate.

Re:ummm... root cause.... (1)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217551)

Good call! This definately makes sense. Someone mod parent up as insightful.

I would have had first post, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20217211)

My stupid Wi-Fi was on and I couldnt post fast enough. Thanks Sony PSP!

first? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20217285)

yes!

Perspective Please (2, Insightful)

JamesRose (1062530) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217319)

Untill recently, the clock speed was only 222, now they have upgraded it so it can go to the full speed of 333mhz, however, you can't do this while running the wi-fi. People have not found a floor, just a limit to the extra given in the new update, everything was working fine at 222mhz and no one complained about slowness so you should have no problems on the wi-fi, there just wont be the extra snapiness, sony probably only did this to save battery or something.

Re:Perspective Please (2, Informative)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217569)

Untill recently, the clock speed was only 222, now they have upgraded it so it can go to the full speed of 333mhz, however, you can't do this while running the wi-fi. People have not found a floor, just a limit to the extra given in the new update, everything was working fine at 222mhz and no one complained about slowness so you should have no problems on the wi-fi, there just wont be the extra snapiness, sony probably only did this to save battery or something.


Except if the game needs the full speed (the bus/CPU/GPU speeds are all locked together - at 222MHz CPU, it's 111MHz system bus, at 333MHz, it's 166MHz system bus). I can't remember what the system-bus-to-GPU ratio is (I think it's x1 system bus frequency).

So it makes multiplayer interesting - if things get busy, you can have the game become choppy because the models are too datailed for the GPU, while it may be adequate in single player because the GPU can render everything fast enough.

It's an interesting limitation - but the whole homebrew community has unlocked 333MHz practically from day 1 - I don't recall there being any sort of issue with wifi at that speed. Perhaps it really is battery life... but would 333MHz plus WiFi make that big of a difference? (If so, it means WiFi already takes a lot of power... in which case you get better battery life turning it off. If not, then the extra 50% in speed, WiFi will take little in comparison?).

Re:Perspective Please (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217777)

It's the battery life, WiFi eats power like no tomorrow, even with the new battery. 333Mhz also eats power, using both would chew through even the new battery sooner than one would want

WiFI fuckups. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20217373)

PSP: lower clockspeed
NDS: no wpa
Iphone: $50/month

wtf is this?!

Re:WiFI fuckups. (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20226587)

I bet they all run faster without video output too. I don't see how the is a big "fuckup." If you know how to bring a product to the market that has WAP wifi without taxing the system's architecture or costing money, feel free to bring that product to market. I'll be first in line, buddy. All the products you listed are awesome products that aren't perfect. That's a banal observation. If you want a cheap fast portable wifi device that doesn't play games or movies or answer phone calls, just get a damn PDA. But even that PDA would run faster and longer with no wifi.

I just don't see why this is an issue (5, Insightful)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217405)

I mean yeah, some of y'all don't like Sony and point out everything that happens with this company as though it's a "fuckup" (to take an above commenter's description of this limitation). But it's a fact that the wifi being on didn't slow down any PSPs on any game ever published. The spin here may be tough for some to see through, but to fac tis simple, all PSP games were running at a set speed of 222 mhz. These games could have wifi on or off. I presume that somehow there is a power limitation or something other limitation that means you can't run full speed with wifi. I'm sure this isn't design flaw, unless you think every system that could be faster is designed poorly (and virtually every system could be faster). You have to engineer these things. This announcement is that Sony has now INCREASED the processor speed for non wifi applications. It's a bit of GOOD NEWS. I mean, whoop dee do, who cares, but still, this isn't bad news for anyone. It adds a capability that wasn't there in the past. But here's the spin "WIFI IMPAIRS THE PSP PROCESSOR!!!! NICE DESIGN CHOICE HAHAHA!!!" So strange to twist things that radically. I just don't get the whacky spinning. What did Sony do to deserve this special treatment? I'm sincerely curious. Sony has been pretty cool about Linux on its systems so long as it doesn't lead to pirated games. Sony is always pushing things to add features and be innovative... often valuing cool novel features over functionality. That's how we get new cool stuff. Everybody out there uses something Sony invented. Things as basic as optical discs and modern batteries were developed or improved by Sony. I would think Slashdot would have a lot of people who like Sony because it's got cool stuff. Albeit the nice stuff is too expensive. This seems like more than a economic issue. Some of you, and obviously the editor, have a real axe to grind. Reading through these threads, some dude was modded a troll for a single sentence saying "The Cell processor is a really cool piece of technology!" Anyway, I'd like to hear what the real issue is.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (2, Insightful)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217969)

That's some pretty serious schilling there. Sony hasn't been "cool" about anything homebrew on the PSP (the device under discussion), doing everything they can to disable it with each firmware update.

I could have agreed with you that this isn't a big PSP problem, except maybe in the sense that a developer might make a game without WiFi capability because they decide the increased CPU speed is more important. However, attempting to portray Sony as a poor, hapless, open-source-friendly victim of evil anti-Sony Internet meanies is more than a little ridiculous. For the most part, the folks at Sony earn the wrath of their detractors by making stupid, short-sighted, sometimes downright evil, corporate decisions (I'll skip the laundry list since it's quite well known 'round here).

Oh yeah, and making paragraphs is really easy in HTML. You might want to look into that...

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

w3dg (1079833) | more than 7 years ago | (#20221411)

Go to the PSP forums at Sony and say that. They let users discuss Homebrew usage all the time. It's a security flaw they are required to patch for the lowest common denominator, meaning the average dipshit who doesn't know much about much and will download anything that says "This will do this" on it and then brick the psp. You aren't forced to upgrade firmware, so I don't see them doing everything they can to disable it.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

Drey (1420) | more than 7 years ago | (#20221493)

If you want to play new non-homebrew games, you /are/ required to upgrade the firmware -- newer titles contain requirements for newer firmware.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 7 years ago | (#20223117)

Err no! The latest Sony firmware is 3.52 while the latest homebrew is 3.51 and if the latest game has a firmware update (eg. Twisted Metal had firmware 1.52) it won't install that firmware if you have later release homebrew firmware. You actually have to do this yourself manually, firmware from a game does not install automatically. Actually people who do homebrew are people who in the majority of case will keep their PSP up to date with the latest homebrew firmware.

This is not to say I am an advocate of homebrew or genuine Sony firmware for that matter although both add extra functionality to the PSP, however my son has a homebrew PSP which he brought and upgraded himself and he is very happy with it. Surprisingly he does buy genuine PSP games on occasions, but he won't buy movies unless they are at least 70% cheaper than their DVD equivalent. In many ways he prefers to download an "avi" and play it on his PC or on the PSP or even on our HDTV from the PSP via our PS3 and the result is quite good (not fantastic but definitely watchable).

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 7 years ago | (#20222901)

Sony hasn't been "cool" about anything homebrew on the PSP (the device under discussion), doing everything they can to disable it with each firmware update.

To be fair if Sony does not try to disable "homebrew" with every firmware update then I can see massive litigation by companies like Nintento and Sega since with "homebrew" is is very easy to to play NES, SNES, Sega Master System and Megadrive games just to name a few. I can see Sony Execs turning to Nintendo and Sega saying "Well it's not our fault these terrible homebrew people are circumventing our updates and we are trying our best to stop it, but then again the DS has a thriving homebrew community and what are you doing about it?" Then both Nintento and Sony privately give themselves hi-fives for increased DS and PSP sales.

With regard to WiFi limiting the PSP to 222MHz I am not sure that this is a major problem. Too many people think that MHz or even GHz is a deciding factor in processor performance. It is not since you can have a 1GHz processor that can handle 5 to 10 threads that will outperform a 3GHz single threaded processor. There are many factors you have to take into account when looking as all over computer performance.

As for saying Sony is evil I do suggest you do some reading on Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony and you will find that they are multinational corporations and only one has been found guilty of being an monopoly. They have all been litigated against with some wins and losses. I have never heard or seen any of those companies do anything illegal maybe immoral, ruthless or unethical but these don't seem to count in business today. As for stupid, short-sighted or ill-advise this is not illegal although some people would like to think so.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#20223727)

Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation for stamping out homebrew is that an owner spending time on a homebrew game isn't spending time on a game that earned them any money. Also, opening the doors for homebrew also opens the doors for copy protection circumvention and, again, no earned money on game time.

Sony doesn't make emulators for competing systems and there's not a wick of litigation that could even be twisted to suggest that.

Remember Net Yaroze? How about Linux for the PS2? Both given blessings to the public by Sony thanks to gimped functionality and inability to be used for piracy. They're not opposed to hobbyist development per se, they're opposed to it happening without getting a fistful of c-notes for it.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 7 years ago | (#20238587)

so why is it free and relatively so easy to install linux on the ps3?

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#20239031)

Free and relatively easy under hypervisor. You don't have access to the important bits to do anything that threatens their game sales model.

There is a great difference between playing with the sand on a beach and playing with the sand in a sandbox, after all.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 7 years ago | (#20239147)

my main point was that linux on the ps3 is free.

also, im sure that if you can provide a better way to enable linux on the ps3 AND prevent people from creating ISO loaders or disk validity bypasses, sony would love to hear from you.

if people dont really care about that, well maybe all they wanted was the ability to play pirated games in the first place, and no one really cared about having linux anyways.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

mikkelm (1000451) | more than 7 years ago | (#20225465)

With regard to WiFi limiting the PSP to 222MHz I am not sure that this is a major problem. Too many people think that MHz or even GHz is a deciding factor in processor performance. It is not since you can have a 1GHz processor that can handle 5 to 10 threads that will outperform a 3GHz single threaded processor. There are many factors you have to take into account when looking as all over computer performance.
That only works on different processors with different architectures. Or are you trying to say that doubling the frequency of a processor isn't going to be a deciding factor in the performance of it?

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20225727)

You've got a point about the paragraphs. My comment is very difficult to read. My bad, dude. I didn't realize I would need to use the paragraph tags.

As far as the shilling goes, I'm not shilling at all. I don't favor Sony over other similar companies whatsoever. You're the shill. In fact, you're acting totally insane. To you, people pointing out what's good about Sony must be die-hard Sony shills. Isn't it possible that companies like Nintendo, Samsung, Sony, and others that have cool products are just cool? I never said you didn't have a valid beef, I said your beef wasn't with the PSP's wifi functionality. In fact, it seems you don't hate Sony at all, but rather just hate people who like Sony!

Tell me what your real problem is, man. Would a Sony shill want to encourage that?

You say that some developer out there probably had a problem because of the slow processor speed. But the PSP has the fastest processor speed of any device of its nature. The DS has pretty great games and its processor is a full third slower (mhz != power, but we can agree that the DS is slower I assume). The DS probably could have been designed with a much faster processorif the touch screen wasn't on or if it lacked wifi. Are those design flaws? That would be as absurd as this article and your interpretation of the PSP.

Sony is ok. Believe me, they don't want to kill your family. They want to make money, so you should be sceptical of how useful their expensive products are, but if they are cool enough to make you happy, there is no evil there. You are helping push technology forward with your money. Nintendo similarly, though they aren't pushing technology in the same way, they are innovating and improving society. I think there is real practical value to Sony and Nintendo making a lot of money. Anyone who wants to work in technology should see value in themselves through these companies.

Instead of posting a reply to my arguments, you chose to insult me. That's the cowardly way. What did Sony do to you? No offense, but you are acting crazy.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#20227445)

I had a really long post all written and ready to go, but I decided there was no point. Here's the short version:

A) I AGREED WITH YOU ON THE MAIN POINT. This "issue" is not a big deal.
B) If your post hadn't read like a defensive Sony shill, I wouldn't have called it such.
C) Praising Sony for their Linux "support" is like praising Microsoft for adding MP3 "functionality" to the Xbox with their "Music Maker" software - crappy, limited implementations deserve scorn, not praise.
D) Pretending that Sony is all about raising the state of the art is disingenuous at best. If they were all about progress then they wouldn't have walked out on the talks with Toshiba and we'd have a unified HD disc format right now. They did, and we don't.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

dark_15 (962590) | more than 7 years ago | (#20218097)

Maybe it's just me, but perhaps the fact that they normally shit on their customers whenever they get the chance to. Must I remind you about the rootkits [technet.com] , exploding batteries [cpsc.gov] , or shutting down Lik-Sang [lik-sang.com] ? There are probably more examples, but these three are the ones that come to mind almost immediately. Oh I almost forgot - the marketing isn't too great either [consumerist.com] .

Then again, maybe I'm just cynical too.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20226551)

I wanted to thank you for posting your laundry list. And I'm going to try to reply to it, though I'm not that interested in Sony product I think this is a really interesting look at what's going on with Slashdot.

It's good for people to be able to see what your issues are (and I bet these are the issues people are actually concerned about). Since you provided links, people who aren't sure about Sony can learn more about its history.

I agree that Sony marketing is terrible. You didn't even mention the arrogant comments about taking extra jobs and all that, but lumped together, Sony has no marketing. There's no explanation for it. I see abstract marketing work when something is truly premium. Like BMW. But Sony isn't the BMW of electronics. It tries to be, but things progress so quickly no company can have that position. The marketing never gets the point across. As far as the viral marketing thing, that's lame, but it's a universal problem. the LA Times had an article on Nintendo doing it, and we're inundated with Microsoft's Halo 3 virals. This article itself is following a pretty well accepted trend. Anyway, we agree that Sony's marketing sucks (it's worse than MS or Nintendo). Not germane, but true.

I'm glad Sony joined everybody else suing Lik-Sang. (you did know that Microsoft and Nintendo sued them too, but failed where Sony succeeded, right?) Lik-Sang was an unethical company that existed mainly to help people steal. You can pretend otherwise all your want, but it was about stealing games. I want people to be able to make a living in this industry. That means more more purchases and less stealing. So this in not worth holding a grudge about. In fact, this is probably the same unfairness shown in this article. A symptom, not the disease.

Sony invented the Li-Ion battery. It's an essential part of our world now. Sony made an enormous contribution to our world by bringing us this battery. This battery is the main reason laptops have decent processors and nice screens. Laptops are selling very very well now, and every laptop company owes that in part to Sony's battery. But some of them failed and Sony had to pay a lot of money to fix the problem. It's not a good enough technology and people are coming up with sulphur and other varieties that are better (oddly, General Motors is one at the forefront), but Li-Ion was a huge advance. I think Sony replaced as many as they could, but people should always be mindful that electronics are a bit hazardous, especially when large capacity batteries are involved. Is there any reason to hold a grudge when Sony already had to pay its penalty for this? Of course not. This is ridiculous. When you are at the forefront, things aren't as stable. Sony took risks to make better products. Cars are more dangerous than horse-buggy combos. But that risk is worth the advance. This is relevant insofar as a cutting edge item that Sony makes in the future is also more likely to explode than a less advanced model that isn't cheaply made. The PSP has this battery tech in it, but I'm not familiar with claims that the PSP is unreliable (point this out if it is).

About the root-kit thing: I never buy music cds, and am not an expert on this. Sony did something awful by putting some kind of malware or spyware on people's computers without their permission, right? That's obviously totally unacceptable. My opinion, since I heard about this a million times but am not at all involved with music cds, is that Sony paid a huge public price for its blunder. They also settled a class action lawsuit. But this happened in 2005. And it was in a division of Sony that has nothing to do with the PSP. In fact, it seems likely that this obviously idiotic root-kit never saw Sony's legal department and was probably done by some idiots rather than Sony at large (this guess could be totally, but I bet it's the likely scenario). I think this has nothing to do with the PSP's wifi functionality, or this article's ridiculous slant.

But you're being honest (I'm serious). You're pissed about the root-kit and other things like that. Perhaps that's what is setting Zonk's agenda (I assume that this isn't the case and Slashdot is like all the other game magazines with payoffs and advertiser assistance for MS).

So why don't you submit articles about the 2005 Root-kit and the effect it has on the world today? There answer is that this story is over and isn't very relevant to readers. Sony screwed up and has paid a huge price for it, and I think we need to let that go. If you want to hold this terrible action against all Sony products, that's your choice, but it makes no sense. Even murderers eventually get to go free. You should forgive Sony for the root-kit problem, because they paid a steep penalty, they aren't doing it anymore, and their current innovations are worth valuing.

anyway, now that I've gone over all your objections, let's look at how they affect the PSP's wifi functionality. They don't. Everything you said has nothing to do with this story. These issues have made some people partisans against Sony and instead of actually bringing up the issues they are actually mad about,t hey chose to unfairly taint every other sony story. That makes your issues look petty because that's dishonest. People actually run around this board accusing people of being shills (that's a very juvenile insult, btw) if they are fair towards Sony. Not Sony fans, but just fair. Thus your real arguments are lost.

If people aren't going to care much about rootkits from years ago or exploding batteries Sony paid for, that's their choice. And it's probably the right choice. Frustration, in general, that these issues are less relevant, isn't a good reason to attack completely unrealted things. It just makes the anti-Sony crazies look crazy.

Anyway, thanks for the informative reply. I'm sure I'm about get a lot of flack for being even handed.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20218447)

It's funny because there isn't really any good reason to limit the processor speed in this way. This is not the same as Sony recommending that all developers only use the CPU at 222Mhz, especially if there is wifi attached. This is, if wifi is attached, you cannot have 333Mhz.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20225855)

You don't know that, pal. You can rest assured that they would have it faster if they could have. Sony has goofed up a lot, there's no doubt about that. Obviously, just looking at this thread, a lot of people hate Sony, and that's obviously partly due to PR issues. But I doubt this that type of problem For all your know, this is a cooling solution (both wifi and processors make heat). For all you know, the best wifi solution happened to have a set bus speed that wouldn't work with 333 mhz (if you build PCs you understand what I mean, and someone already pointed this out below). Fact is, speed didn't win this battle. The DS is doing really well at a much slower 67 mhz. The problems with the PSP are that the UMDs don't hold PS2 ports very well and the controls aren't wonderful. I think the PSP is pretty good but you have to accept those problems. But of course the pieces are all limiting eachother! Motocycles go faster than cars because they pull less weight. Bomb Squad robots are slower than toy RC cars because they have arms and armor. Complicated systems are less efficient. But wifi was a must in the PSP, so it seems this is a fundamentally misguided criticism. It's like saying that you have less ice cream because it had to fit in a bowl. It's just absurd! Thanks for the good reply, though.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20225925)

Sorry I goofed up the paragraphs again. God that's annoying.

Re:I just don't see why this is an issue (1)

sanosuke001 (640243) | more than 7 years ago | (#20218479)

I agree with the parent post as well as both responses. Sony's hardware is top notch. This wifi thing is a design decision; not a flaw. As the OP stated, if you see this as a flaw, then your PC is flawed because the OS uses some of your RAM.

However, Sony makes some HORRIBLE marketing decisions as of late. I see this as more of a problem with "one hand doesn't know what the other is doing" rather than a Sony fuck-up. Sony's been pumping out some innovative shit lately, they just screw themselves over with how they decide to market it. For example, if they would bundle UMD movies with DVDs for $5 more than the DVD alone, they would sell a LOT more UMDs. Or if they let homebrew go on the PSP, they'd sell a LOT more PSPs.

Either way, don't call this a Sony fuckup. All this amounts to is someone who doesn't like Sony trying to spin an announcement way out of proportion.

Homebrewers have known this (2, Informative)

geekboy642 (799087) | more than 7 years ago | (#20217959)

Almost since the first hack came out opening up the PSP to hobbyists, it's been known that overclocking the PSP's chip will break the wifi. There's been a lot of speculation about it, with a lot of people thinking it was intentional on Sony's part. Well, I guess now we know. It's UNintentional, but still Sony's fault.

Heh, stupid closed rental-hardware company. They too will fall into obscurity.

Re:Homebrewers have known this (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20226633)

I'm just curious what you meant by "closed rental". People who think Sony would deliberately incorporate the technology to destroy the wifi if you overclocked your PSP were probably paranoid schizophrenics. A lot of people with that illness surf the internet all day. That idea is just absolutely bonkers.

Re:Homebrewers have known this (1)

geekboy642 (799087) | more than 7 years ago | (#20226801)

Stupid = sue hackers, "super-fans" and anyone else who does something you don't like with hardware or media you sell.
Closed = Just try writing software for the PSP without being a large gaming company.
Rental = BluRay, constant anti-homebrew PSP updates

Re:Homebrewers have known this (1)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 7 years ago | (#20238907)

sue hackers? name one individual hacker that sony has sued... they have threatened, but TMK theyve never sued any homebrew creators.

closed? by nature, all console manufacturers are closed. they make money via SDK licensing. if you have the money to afford an SDK and have valid credentials/ backing even smaller developers can create PSP/ PSN games. look at cave story for example.

rental? what does blu-ray have to do with anything? you are not "forced" to update your PSP firmware. its your choice: update or play new games. custom firmware has not been blocked from anything. if MS detects that you have invalid firmware, or that your box has been tampered with, they ban you for life.

"anti-homebrew"? come on... lets be serious. homebrew is fine. what youre complaining about is the "anti-piracy" security updates. you own the device, its your choice how you use it. if you think sony should just sit there and let everyone pirate the entire PSP library, they wouldnt be in business and third party developers would go broke.

Re:Homebrewers have known this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20244075)

I hope you get payed for that shilling you're doing for Sony. If Sony wasn't anti-homebrew, they wouldn't add new anti-homebrew tweaks to every single PSP firmware update. I think that's pretty self-evident, actually.

Re:Homebrewers have known this (1)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 7 years ago | (#20253701)

like i said, there is a difference between an anti-homebrew stance and an anti-piracy stance.

you may not see much of a difference, but there is a huge difference in the eyes of any corporation and its licensed partners. iso loaders/ piracy is not within a console owners right to have/ use. backups may be a right, but until someone cares enough to devise a way to differentiate legit backups from pirated copies, any corporation has the right to fight the promotion of any means to proliferate illegal software.

if sony was so anti-homebrew, why wouldnt they simply ban or brick any psp that they find running custom firmware on? that is microsoft's policy afterall, isnt it? MS forces you to update and permanently bans consoles using custom firmware, and people rejoice. sony gives you the option to upgrade or not and doesnt ban you if youre using custom firmware, and people are up in arms.

name one company out of the big three that has turned a blind eye to piracy. can you? okay, how about this one? now ask yourself which of the big three has the longest track record of allowing legit [albeit crippled] homebrew to be run on its consoles?

if your answer is anything other than sony, maybe YOU'RE the plant. afterall i dont have anything to hide, hence why i actually had the balls to log in and comment /on the record/.

It's not the end of the world. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20218125)

The PSP's 222mhz processor is still a hell of a lot faster than the 67mhz processor in the DS.

Re:It's not the end of the world. (0, Troll)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 7 years ago | (#20218531)

I would think of a witty comeback, but I'm too busy playing GAMES on my DS.

Re:It's not the end of the world. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20218993)

How is that AT ALL relevant to the article??? Good for you. I would leave a witty comment, but I'm too busy playing GAMES (and listening to music) on my PSP.

Re:It's not the end of the world. (0, Flamebait)

SCPRedMage (838040) | more than 7 years ago | (#20221439)

And I'm sure you've been a dutiful fanboi and bought BOTH good games for it, too.

The second game is out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20221777)

Whoa! BRB - shopping!

Re:It's not the end of the world. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20235215)

Nintendo huh? I guess some adults haven't matured and still enjoy playing games made for little kids. I hope your DS experience is filled with many (blocky) rainbows and (low resolution) wonders.

Firmware cat-and-mouse is still on (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#20218717)

The PSP's 222mhz processor is still a hell of a lot faster than the 67mhz processor in the DS.
Unless you are considering buying a new PSP or new DS to use homebrew. In this case, the PSP is likely to be 0 MHz because it comes with new 3.51 firmware that rejects the Lumines exploit, but the DS with the "Games n' Music" modchip for SLOT-1 ($30 at Wal-Mart stores) is still 67 MHz.

Choose your own adventure! (4, Funny)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 7 years ago | (#20219781)

You decide whether to play your Playstation Portable at 333Mhz or using WiFi capabilities. You choose to:

1) play at 333 Mhz. Page 108
2) play with WiFi capabilities. Page 42
3) do both! Page 36

p36. "Your PSP reads 'Emergency shut down. Battery dead.' You go to plug in your PSP to recharge it and the bettery explodes. You die.
p42. You experience a decrease in graphics quality but are happy to be playing with people instead of on your own.
p108. You run to your room, lock the door, and admire the 333Mhz in all their glory. You forget where you place the key for the door and die of starvation. One week after your death, your PSP spontaneously turns on, its battery explodes, and your corpse is set on fire.

Probably an issue with clock reference (3, Informative)

pslam (97660) | more than 7 years ago | (#20222735)

This sounds very familiar to me (I work with a lot of deeply embedded systems). What they've probably got is a clock in the WiFi which is referenced from the CPU clock. It could be the core clock for it or maybe used as a reference to generate the 2.4GHz signal.

So, when you change the CPU clock to 333MHz, the hard-wired multipliers for the WiFi clock don't work.

It could also be that the clock jitter at 333MHz is greater than at 222MHz, so the WiFi doesn't work even if the clock dividers/multipliers can be adjusted.

It could also be that they need to increase the core voltage to manage 333MHz, and that breaks some other aspect of the WiFi. Typically RF parts are very sensitive to these changes and the signal will end up garbled.

It could also be that the power regulator can't actually supply the total system power load required for 33MHz CPU and WiFi at the same time (WiFi is quite power hungry).

There's plenty of non-conspiracy reasons why this could be the way it is, and all of them are quite acceptable seeing as the part was only intended to be 222MHz in the first place. The fact that something doesn't work at 333MHz kind of validates the original rating.

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