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PC Magazine Editor Throws in the Towel on Vista

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the windows-dreams-dying-or-dead dept.

Windows 816

MacNN caught this incredible defection and loss of faith by a former Vista booster, PC Magazine editor-in-chief Jim Louderback, as he steps down from his position. "I've been a big proponent of the new OS over the past few months, even going so far as loading it onto most of my computers and spending hours tweaking and optimizing it. So why, nine months after launch, am I so frustrated? The litany of what doesn't work and what still frustrates me stretches on endlessly. The upshot is that even after nine months, Vista just ain't cutting it. I definitely gave Microsoft too much of a free pass on this operating system: I expected it to get the kinks worked out more quickly. Boy, was I fooled! If Microsoft can't get Vista working, I might just do the unthinkable: I might move to Linux."

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816 comments

Uncanny (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20274479)

Apparently there are more people reading Distrowatch with Vista [distrowatch.com] than they are with Debian, so I guess all this nonsense about Vista being a flop is far from true. Looking at those trends I'd say Vista is going to surpass Ubuntu soon as well. The zealots must be really pissed. Oh and Vista SP1 is going to be the last nail in the coffin.

The ultimate irony here - Distrowatch.com. It just kills me. I guess they must be fabricating the stats, just like Wikipedia and everyone else [hitslink.com].

MICRO$HAFT WINDOZES R TEH DYIEING LOLZORZZ!!!!!eleventyone

Heh.

Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (5, Insightful)

twitter (104583) | more than 6 years ago | (#20276079)

A silly AC writes:

Apparently there are more people reading Distrowatch with Vista than they are with Debian, ... The ultimate irony here - Distrowatch.com. It just kills me.

Vista owners are looking for a new OS. Why does this confuse you? If Vista is as bad as Louderback says it is, gnu/linux is the only upgrade option that will work. Large numbers of Windoze users looking at a site like Distrowatch is bad news for M$ and good news for software freedom.

I guess all this nonsense about Vista being a flop is far from true.

Visit the Vista failure log [slashdot.org] and wake up. M$ can't push Vista. It's SP1 won't fix things and I doubt they can come up with a new OS people will really want. They have gone too far down the digital restrictions path to recover.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (5, Insightful)

Wooloomooloo (902011) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277253)

The [allegedly] slow adoption of Vista is not due to DRM; it's because the OS is a resource hog.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277265)

If Vista is as bad as Louderback says it is, gnu/linux is the only upgrade option that will work.

yeah, because xp doesn't work or anything. get a life troll.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (0, Troll)

RevHawk (855772) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277377)

He did say Upgrade Option - likely refering to people already using XP. Get a life, reactionary troll

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277763)

Moving to Linux from Windows XP is more like a downgrade.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (2, Insightful)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277289)

Indeed, a very good point. Why would so many people with Vista be going to distrowatch anyway?

Outside of that, I think it's silly to try and use overall numbers as a gauge of how successful it is as an operating system people LIKE. Vista's numbers are going to go up regardless, since almost all new PC's and laptops you buy will have Vista installed.

But it's clear that not everyone is happy with it. Check out a site like notebookreview.com, and notice how for almost every new laptop that has come out, there is invariably a thread or two about getting XP running on it.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (4, Interesting)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277361)

The thing I'm starting to wonder at this point is... how much of the Vista hate is just hype-driven? Clearly, not all, probably not even most. However, it seems to me that it's likely that there are people who dislike Vista who've never even touched it, nor are informed about it. They dislike it because others, whose opinions they're willing to trust, do. The question is, how significant is that group? I wish there was a way to find out, it'd be interesting either way.

- a happy Vista user, for the record

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (5, Interesting)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277593)

The engineering computing* group at my company don't like Vista. I trust their opinion, thus I don't like vista.
-nB

* NOT IT, vastly different purposes in life. IT is about mainstream hardware, standard servers, only having to deploy 2-3 images across 90% of the company. Engineering Computing is about the other 10%. Almost as many images as users, custom hardware specs, support for *every* OS available, back to Win3.1 and across 17 different linux distros. If they say "no way" to Vista, then I'm sold on the opinion and won't touch it (incidentally, nor will IT for the same reason).

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (5, Insightful)

Tsu Dho Nimh (663417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277733)

However, it seems to me that it's likely that there are people who dislike Vista who've never even touched it, nor are informed about it. They dislike it because others, whose opinions they're willing to trust, do.

Tha'ts what viral marketing is all about ... trusted people influencing others. But it works both for you and against you.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (-1, Troll)

DaveCBio (659840) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277439)

Ahh, the cries of a zealot. Got to love the mature nomenclature "windoze" and "M$". Then people like you wonder why Windows users feel hostility and are very hesitant to want to even try Linux. As bad as Windows is, it works. Linux, yes even your great Ubunutu, still has a long ways to go. Even if you want mom and pop to switch over they are still going to have to deal with compatibility issues with documents and media formats. Ubunutu and distros like go a long way towards usability, but they aren't good enough for mass acceptance by a Windows user base. I mean when everything goes right with Linux it's great, but when things go wrong it's a nightmare for casual users. When I was playing around with Ubunutu last year I checked out a few sites and messageboards and found that even though there was helpful information out there it was often way too technical for people like my parents or neighbors. I also noticed that there is still an air of arrogance and hostility amongst some Linux supporters towards people that are inexperienced with Linux and/or are coming from a Windows background. As someone mentioned to me, just because you can make things work in Linux doesn't mean it's usable by most PC owners out there. In a few years, like it or not, there will still be more Vista users than Linux out there because of the Windows legacy and the large commercial support base.

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277617)

"As bad as Windows is, it works. Linux, yes even your great Ubunutu, still has a long ways to go."

Yeah, my OSX and the role my OpenBSD performs just works too. How come you assume if it's not Windows the only other choice is Linux?

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (4, Informative)

yo_tuco (795102) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277787)

"As bad as Windows is, it works."

Well, apparently, it just doesn't work for everybody. Isn't that what the PC Magazine editor is saying in TFA?

Re:Makes sense to me, AC. Vista users are unhappy. (1, Interesting)

abigor (540274) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277661)

Actually, both Windows and Linux suck on the desktop (although Windows 2000 is okay, and KDE 4 should go a long way towards rectifying the situation on Linux). The only option for this editor is OS X, the world's best consumer desktop operating system.

(Unless you're into games).

Re:Uncanny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277363)

Looks like you're not counting all the debian-based desktop distros in your trolling... debian lives mostly on servers, ubuntu and friends are what's on the desktop... troll on, bitch. The only thing Vista is good for is downloading ubuntu images. No wonder every vista user in the world is flocking to distro-watch.

Re:Uncanny (1)

Sadsfae (242195) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277623)

"Apparently there are more people reading Distrowatch with Vista [distrowatch.com] than they are with Debian, so I guess .."

They are looking for another OS?

*Yawn* (-1, Troll)

alx5000 (896642) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277113)

If Microsoft can't get Vista working, I might just do the unthinkable: I might move to Linux.

Someone who describes that as the unthinkable can only be a a MS zealot, a troll, or a plain idiot.

Wow, sheesh, Vista sucks so badly that I might consider using another OS that's already installed on millions of servers and desktops around the world. I must be so desperate!

About the rest of the article, it's just a rant on Vista's inability to properly manage sleep modes, and some networking problems, with a couple of unfunny jokes here and there. Apparently this guy can't get all his computers to behave as expected (as if anyone should be surprised at this stage that two computers running the same version of Windows can run into trouble trying to talk to each other). You'd better be spending your time reading something else [literature.org]...

Re:*Yawn* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277353)

Well, I'm sorry if I was pissed off by a useless and pointless article, but I think I was nowhere near trolling. Please RTFA and decide for yourselves...

Re:*Yawn* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277701)

I read the editor of PC Magazine is unhappy with Vista. Not a good endorsement regardless how bad the content of TFA is.

Re:*Yawn* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277777)

That's kind of a reverse ad hominem. Just because he's the editor of a famous computer magazine, that doesn't make his points any less moot when accompanied only by moronic remarks and pointless jokes...

twitter (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277169)

lol. you are teh uber-troll.

mad propz!!1!

Tomorrow on slashdot.. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277177)

Tomorrow on slashdot: parents of slashdotter move to Linux
The day after: Kids of a random person raised using Linux

What is this? This isn't news!?
People who use Linux moving to Windows, now THAT would be news!

Re:Tomorrow on slashdot.. (5, Insightful)

badfish99 (826052) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277221)

Perhaps the news is that, since this person is leaving his job at a magazine paid for by advertising, he is finally free to tell the truth.

Re:Tomorrow on slashdot.. (1)

pimpimpim (811140) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277387)

Indeed, I first thought the link was wrong, as it started saying he would leave his job there. Just in the next paragraph he wrote his frustrations about Vista. Coincidence? In any case, he mentions problems with power-saving modes. It is very bad that this doesn't work as any new motherboard should be supported by vista already. But I wonder if going to linux there will make his life simpler, I never even tried, and from what I've heard it is far from easy to get it working satisfactorily. Then again, linux is not made to be shut down in the first place.

Power-saving on Linux (2, Interesting)

overshoot (39700) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277759)

In any case, he mentions problems with power-saving modes. It is very bad that this doesn't work as any new motherboard should be supported by vista already. But I wonder if going to linux there will make his life simpler, I never even tried, and from what I've heard it is far from easy to get it working satisfactorily.
Well, I've never had a problem with my systems. "Hibernate" goes to swap, that's all folx; close the lid on the Thinkpad and Kubuntu sends her straight to RAM sleep. Open her up and in a blink she's back. It all Just Works.

Re:Tomorrow on slashdot.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277535)

Your post reminds me of why I decided to avoid PC magazine years ago, they did many things that annoyed me but the worst had to be the "free" cd of malware included with many issues.

Re:Tomorrow on slashdot.. (1, Informative)

Workaphobia (931620) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277629)

I also have him pegged as an idiot. A few weeks ago, for the first time, I picked up a copy of PC Magazine because it was lying around and I had nothing better to do. I open up to the article that interests me, one about bandwidth from US ISPs, and the first paragraph claims that a gigabit per second is 100 times faster than megabit/s and 1000 times faster than a kilobit/s. A little later on they imply that a couple hundred kilobits a second is a good speed for the New York region, when I occasionally get as high as 8 megabits/s. Even if they meant to say bytes they were still glaringly wrong, and I was left to wonder what kind of proof reading, if any, they did.

So I guess I'm saying I couldn't care less what this man has to say about his choice of operating system.

Re:Tomorrow on slashdot.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277225)

Can't we just ban Twatter from this website? Everytime I read one of his messages I feel a mix of anger and pity, and he gives Linux zealots a bad name.

If he's such an MS whore (1, Interesting)

Omeger (939765) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277209)

I highly doubt he'd like moving to Linux then. And why is he shocked that *GASP!* a new MS OS come out and there's still not as much stuff for it as the previous OS which has been out for over 6 years now!? People keep forgetting the leap between 3.1 and 95.

Re:If he's such an MS whore (5, Informative)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277383)

If you'd bothered to read the article, it isn't all due to driver issues. He has problems also with the way they redesigned the network settings, how responsive the system is reconnecting to wireless after waking from sleep (if they do at all), as well as shared drives not being found by one computer on the network when a different one sees it just fine. His problems are with the UI, the networking protocols, as well as drivers. On brand new hardware, no less. It isn't like he was trying to support a P2 400 or something, brand new Dell workstations, which I'm sure had Vista Ready or even Vista Premium Ready stamped all over them. Vista has been out for more than 8 months now, and they still haven't worked out these annoyances and broken features. Vistas problems go well beyond drivers and into the realm of what others like to call here "defective by design".

Re:If he's such an MS whore (5, Funny)

Locutus (9039) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277697)

Networking is not that important or useful these days so what the heck is the author crying about?
There obviously is little incentive for Microsoft to spend much time and effort in this area over the last 5 years of developing this "new" operating system. ;-/

LoB

Re:If he's such an MS whore (0)

T M Stasko (1139511) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277435)

This is not so great news. I tried Vista out a few years ago, when it was still termed "Longhorn" through a copy acquired from MSDNAA. It didn't work that well at all on my Dell Inspiron 6000. That was OK, there weren't drivers, I knew that, I would give it time. I tried running it on my newest build, running an AMD Athalon 4600 64-bit processor (in 64-bit mode of course) and there were few drivers and now 64-bit virus scan available for it. That was a year ago. I have just purchased a new XPS m1330, am on the waiting list for one, and now I discover that there are still difficulties with it. When is Microsoft planning to clear up these problems? With SP1? This is getting ridiculous!

Just a skin (2, Insightful)

Bombula (670389) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277235)

I maintain my position that Vista is just a new XP skin. I've heard a lot of talk about how parts were rewritten from the ground up - networking especially. But I just don't see it. Very nearly all of the old problems are there. This guy mentions sleep modes. When has that NOT been a problem? What, exactly, is so difficult about dumping and reupping a memory state, I want to know?

This is not to say that Linux or OSX or anything else is perfect. The problem is that Vista was billed as 'all new' and 'rewritten from the ground up'. It wasn't. THAT is was sucks about it.

Re:Just a skin (5, Informative)

cbrocious (764766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277331)

Have you ever considered that it's not just memory state? You have to bring all devices to their previous state as well, which happens on a per-device basis. Please learn about what you're talking about before bitching. Thanks.

Re:Just a skin (1)

janrinok (846318) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277541)

What, exactly, is so difficult about dumping and reupping a memory state, I want to know?

It depends on how you read it. Isn't he asking the question and you have just answered it? Perhaps he is trying to learn. But still, he has a point, it's not rocket science....

Re:Just a skin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277671)

sun os 8 could do this just fine and fast, what's the problem again?
It could resume before the monitor could warm up ... no kidding

Re:Just a skin (1)

Bombula (670389) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277683)

I'll be the first to admit I know very little about device states. But if some devices can be turned off and back on while the machine is running, why not all? And therefore, why can't they all be turned off and back on at the same time? Well, obviously they can because sleep/hibernate modes do work some of the time. So why not all of the time? Where is the problem? I'm not being rhetorical - I'd genuinely like to know. I've never understood why this is gives Windows such a problem.

Almost no musician's apps work on Vista (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277861)

... so I very much doubt that it's just a skin over XP.

I think it's a wholly new O/S, and getting new O/S's to a working state always takes many years --- look how long it took Linux, the BSDs, OSX and even Windows 3->NT->XP to become usable. That's why Vista is basically dead, you can't create new operating systems overnight (and 3 years is still "overnight").

Rather than being buried as it deserves, Vista may actually continue in its moribund state for another 5-10 years until it finally starts working as well as XP. Unfortunately, Microsoft has tons of cash and too much pride to throw Vista in the bin immediately.

It should have stuck with polishing XP, evolution not revolution. This misunderstanding about the lifecycle of operating systems is going to cost MS literally billions and billions in the long run.

People will wait for Vista SP1, or XP SP3 or... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277249)

...whatever MS comes up with. We are happily running our apps and games on 2003 server or XP. I support and use Linux in the server room, but in the real world with the apps and games all running on Windows, desktops will stay where they are.

People keep saying this is the year for the Linux desktop because of Vista's failures, when most people don't care because XP and 2003 run just fine for them. They aren't looking for change from Vista or Lunix or anything else for that matter.

Re:People will wait for Vista SP1, or XP SP3 or... (5, Interesting)

iocat (572367) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277819)

I don't understand why more people aren't personally pissed off at this guy. He's the EIC of one of the leading PC mags, and he backs Vista whole hog -- how many people trusted him and "upgraded" themselves -- and now he changes his mind? After PC Mag devoted countless pages to shilling for Vista?

I understand people change their minds, but I'd be lying if I said I question whether or not his change of heart on Vista would be public if he wasn't leaving the magazine world (dependent heavily on MS for ad revenue and stories) for another field.

Nothing's perfect (1, Flamebait)

achten (1032738) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277261)

I had feeling that I can express in words like these after unsuccessfully trying to use LCD projector with my T60p running Mandriva 2007
I've been a big proponent of the new OS over the past few years, even going so far as loading it onto most of my computers and spending hours tweaking and optimizing it. So why, nine months after launch, am I so frustrated? The litany of what doesn't work and what still frustrates me stretches on endlessly. The upshot is that even after many years, Linux just ain't cutting it. I definitely gave the FOSS guys too much of a free pass on this operating system: I expected it to get the kinks worked out more quickly. Boy, was I fooled! If FOSS guys can't get Linux working, I might just do the unthinkable: I might move to Windows 2000.

GIYF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277651)

Really? Within moments of googling I found out that to do that you have to use the "fglrx" drivers on your model. I know that driver isn't open sourced, but you'd have to use a closed source driver in Windows to get it working as well..

Here are some relevant links:
Mandriva Wiki [mandriva.com] which claims compatibility with the t60.
Gentoo User [tesuji.org]
Ubuntu User w/ xorg.conf [thinkwiki.org]

I'd like to help you more, but I'm not a Mandriva user. Good luck with your problem anyway! Next time you buy a laptop, try and get something with easier Linux support.

vista just doesn't seem ready (1, Redundant)

Sadsfae (242195) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277279)

only when another flagship OS has been released does its' predecessor seem somewhat stable and ready to use (Vista-XP) (ME-98) etc..

perhaps vista will take more adoption and glowing reviews when it's successor is announced/released?

Re:vista just doesn't seem ready (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277441)

No, I'd say pretty much from release, Windows 2000 was lauded as "the Windows that doesn't suck." People didn't just start appreciating it when XP came out, it was a favored alternative to 98 and NT 4.0 practically since launch.

And only Linux zealots really complained about the stability of XP. Those who had first sunk their teeth into 2k were disappointed, but even they said that XP was "okay" rather than "sucked."

The ONE good thing about VISTA: (4, Interesting)

craznar (710808) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277291)

It's forced me to make it my last Microsoft Operating System ever.

After being forced on to Vista by Sony - after unwittingly buying a VAIO which is stuck with Vista. I am totally fed up with it.

So far, I have found 3 features which are cool, and hundreds of issues.

Took me around 2 hours one day to edit the TNSNAMES.ORA file on my Oracle (dev) installation... until I worked out the trick.

My next Laptop will be OSX, next Workstation will be Linux - and I already run Linux (CentOS) servers.

Re:The ONE good thing about VISTA: (5, Informative)

SimBuddha (924737) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277533)

I have been an MS supporter and developer since before Win 3.1 but Vista has me very frustrated.

I bought a great new machine, an Acer E700 quad core with Vista. I try to use it for various purposes and it just doesn't work or has some subtle compatibility bug that I cannot work around. So I try to install a new $300 XP Pro on the machine... Kaboom, I cannot get around the blue screen even using SCSI disks and other PCI cards. SOOOOO I put Ubuntu on it and VMWare Server with XP in a VM and the machine is now usable.

If I had been given an option to buy the machine with XP, I would have taken it 100% and what really bugs me is that we are being forced to use Vista when there is no significant end user benefit to upgrading to the new OS. Simbuddha

Re:The ONE good thing about VISTA: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277769)

*** It's forced me to make it my last Microsoft Operating System ever. ***

Haha - hope you don't plan on running games :)

Oh, and if your next laptop is a Mac, enjoy the extra price for the hardware and more expensive software. And if you plan on running games on the Mac, enjoy the selection :)

In a way, I'll be glad to be rid of you pussies.

Re:The ONE good thing about VISTA: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277793)

I've been using Vista since February with no significant issues at all. The only one that has proved bothersome is the slow file copying but even that is a minor annoyance at worst. I currently reboot less often than I did running XP Pro which is an improvement by far.

Re:The ONE good thing about VISTA: (1)

Archtech (159117) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277853)

Windows XP is *my* last MS operating system. Although Windows 2000, which I am still running on one computer, is arguably better.

There is no earthly reason why I should pay the MS tax any more. Especially since its products are implemented and sold by only one company, so I have no second source to fall back on if they let me down. With Linux I have dozens of acceptable distros, many of which are - as far as I'm concerned - just as good as Windows. Plus the support is better, and I get about 5,000 apps bundled with the distro, which MS (or other vendors) would charge me heavily for.

Whenever MS wants to say a final "goodbye" to me as a customer, all it has to do is discontinue patches for W2K and WXP. I'll modulate across to SuSE or Ubuntu without the tiniest twinge of regret. Indeed, I think I will probably heave a sigh of relief.

Do it faggot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277297)

Do it now!

Move to Linux? (-1, Redundant)

jscott (11965) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277301)

If spending hours of your life tweaking your system is not something you want to do, please skip the Linux move. I've been using some flavor of Linux [from Slack to Ubuntu] for a /long/ time now. Tweaking your system is a fact of life. Get a Mac if you don't want to futz around anymore.

BTW, we've been testing Vista at work [we will have to migrate there someday] and "yes", it sucks. Wait for SP2 before wasting your time.

Re:Move to Linux? (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277381)

Post install of Fedora 7, the only thing I spent time tweaking was KDE to get my perfect KDE look - this was on my primary desktop. How about you?

Re:Move to Linux? (1)

mashade (912744) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277493)

His problem isn't the tweaking, it's the stuff he can't tweak. Like the network stack, and other issues. He even describes how he put in the hard time with Vista and put up with the tweaking.

At least with Linux, once you've tweaked something, it stays tweaked -- For better or worse :)

Re:Move to Linux? (5, Funny)

Tony (765) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277549)

Wait for SP2 before wasting your time.

Yes. After SP2, you can waste your time much more efficiently.

Bah, shut up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277315)

I just cannot take anyone who's still on Windows seriously, really.

Moving to Linux.... yeah right (-1, Troll)

MicrosoftElitist (1138973) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277357)

"If Microsoft can't get Vista working, I might just do the unthinkable: I might move to Linux."

Good luck getting that wireless card to work out of the box.

Good luck getting video to look as crystal clear as in Windows.

Want that RAID controller to work gotta recompile the kernel.

Have fun.....

Need x software.... oh crap there is no .rpm or .deb you'll have to compile from source.

I'll just Next --> Next --> Finished

ROFL
Have fun playing Xbill when it comes to games.

Where are the news? (1)

mastermemorex (1119537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277359)

We all already know that Vista sucks since it was released. Is there something new?
And I always have both Linux and Windows in my computer and I use both.
Maybe I am only thinking on using less the Windows or maybe erase it if it becomes too clumsy, but not for now.

Re:Where are the news? (1)

craznar (710808) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277417)

"We all already know that Vista sucks since it was released. Is there something new?"

Yes there is, previous microsoft operatings systems sucked because Microsoft sucked at writing them, and finally ironed the bugs out.

VISTA - was designed to suck, from the ground up it's a vacuum cleaner. This means, fundamentally that there is no hope of a reasonable outcome.

Windows 2000, Windows XP were reasonable workstation operating systems with bugs, Windows VISTA is a disgusting experience with bugs.

Dear Jim, (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277367)

Please move to Linux. Then all of the features you described as not working quickly will not work at all. You might also want to check you BIOS power settings for the probelms on sleep. If you think that "it's too difficult", you'll come back crying after testing Linux and running a couple of "./configure && make && sudo make install"s for your wireless adapter, configuring your firewall via a text editor, etc. (yuck).

You silly stupid journalist, I fart in your general direction.

me too (3, Interesting)

Loconut1389 (455297) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277375)

I've been waiting for stable drivers on a number of fronts and waiting for support from vendors like tivo and kensington. I don't dare upgrade to 64 bit, 32 is headache enough. WMP freezes for any video I load- have to use Nero showtime. iTunes 7 video is broken too. Everything else works great and I love the eye candy, but I give up.

Re:me too (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277851)

I haven't had any MAJOR issues using XPx64. None whatsoever. All of my games work, hell even my webcam works (but that's because I ditched Logitech and got a Microsoft LifeCam VX-3000 for free.) The only thing I've noticed is that STALKER takes about two minutes longer to load in XPx64 than in 32-bit XP. And that is the ONLY issue I've come across.

Common mistake. (5, Funny)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277405)

"I expected it to get the kinks worked out more quickly. Boy, was I fooled!"

Lots of people make the mistake of thinking that Microsoft is a software company. That's wrong. Microsoft is an abuse company that uses software as a method of delivering abuse.

My opinion. Maybe even partly a joke, maybe not.

Re:Common mistake. (1)

reboot246 (623534) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277655)

The best humor always has a bit of truth in it. I think you got it pretty close to the truth.

Funny and close to the truth (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277681)

Funny and close to the truth.
At the risk of destroying a good joke by examining the kernel of truth in it ....
Microsoft is a marketing company. They do marketing. That is their specialty.
When I worked at Intel I quickly realized that Intel wasn't an engineering/design company, but a manufacturing company. AMD might make a better chip but Intel could make their chips for less and sell them for more.

I feel his pain (4, Informative)

langelgjm (860756) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277407)

I feel his pain. Vista has been a pretty big headache for me since I first installed it earlier this summer. I still can't get the machine to suspend properly, my Bluetooth dongle sort of works, sometimes the network adapters require a reboot before they will connect...

However, quite a few problems have been fixed in the past few months, at least for me. The slow file copy/move thing seems to have disappeared; after a few driver updates, no more BSOD or random restarts. Program compatibility is still an issue, and I'm going to need to keep updating drivers, because everything seems like it could use a little more work. Really, though, there isn't much advantage over XP. I'm mainly staying with Vista for the better multiple-monitor support, and the 64-bitness (including finally seeing all 4 GB RAM).

Re:I feel his pain (1)

Fox_1 (128616) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277573)

This is the first time I've paid (personally) for an OS , I put it on a machine twice as powerful(pretty much every spec doubled) as the XP machine in the house and I get comparable performance. UGH!!!!!!!!!! Fact is the XP machine - despite the eccentricities of the OS (it may be patched in a number of non-standard ways) out performs the Vista machine on a number of tasks, pretty much the only edge the Vista machine has is with speech recognition - I never got it running well under xp, and the vista machine just eats it up. WTF?! Speech req works but the freaking web browser crashes! I can't get the damn computer to stop running messenger in the background, it randomly stops recognizing my wireless network and locks up tighter then an unprintable comment. I feel like a jerk for paying for this, and when at the time I was like "yeah, time to grow up and buy your Windows OS" .

Re:I feel his pain (1)

langelgjm (860756) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277713)

Yeah, that sucks. I was lucky enough not to have to pay for my copy (got it through a school program), and boy am I glad that was the case.

I've had the opposite experience. (5, Interesting)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277415)

Vista has actually become usable for me over the last few months. I got a free evaluation copy a few days before the release, and it started out rather poorly. Sleep mode kinda worked, with the mouse, or networking, etc not coming back after it went to sleep. I got random reboots until ATI finally released a driver that didn't crash my whole system.

Now it's pretty smooth sailing.

With that said, I'm still considering just going to Ubuntu. Vista is OK I guess, but there's nothing in it that's terribly compelling. I like the look and feel of it, but I prefer all the software available a click away with Ubuntu. (I'm no newcomer to Linux, the Vista box is my last Windows machine). Whenever the next Ubuntu version comes out I'll try it out on the workstation and see if sleep mode actually works. Then just run vmware for the one or two remaining Windows apps I can't live without.

Vista Issues, Linux Issues (1, Interesting)

KyrBe (446520) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277431)

It's the same shit, different vendor/environment. While all the niggles this guy has with Vista P*ss me off too, there's countless more. I've never had to do so much configuring, disabling and registry tweaking on windows to get it to function without totally hindering me. But do you think I can get linux rolling along nicely on my presario laptop?

Nope. Networking is much better, but the sound card defaults to the SPDIF out (of which there is no physical connection) and X always insists that the best resolution I can manage is 1024x768 (not true!). Pleads for help, hours with google, etc come to nothing. Even Kubuntu which nearly works off the disc still has the sound and X issues.

Windows 2000 was close to perfect for me, but MS dropped the ball. Yes, it's good that they fixed various fundamental problems, but they broke too much in doing so. And Linux, even with the ease of Kubuntu, still has a long way to go.

MS-DOS anyone?

Re:Vista Issues, Linux Issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277589)

MS-DOS anyone?

How about OS/2?

Re:Vista Issues, Linux Issues (1)

Winckle (870180) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277627)

OS X?

Re:Vista Issues, Linux Issues (1)

KyrBe (446520) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277791)

OS X isn't an option at the moment as my hardware isn't due for replacement. But having used Apple hardware and OS X in the past via work and friends I am now considering going Apple when the hardware needs replacing. OS X works out of the box (to the greater extent), so why are Vista and Linux such pigs?

Alleluhiah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277451)

He has seen the light! He is Healed! Yey-yes, healed I tell you.

Poppycock? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277455)

Who the fuck says that? He's obviously homosexual and can't be trusted. Stupid fucking PC magazine power users know just enough to be dangerous.

Vista drove me to OS X (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277457)

And I love it. I've never been huge on Microsoft, ran OS/2 for several years, and Vista was just so annoying and slow, it made the decision to switch to a Mac easy. Is OS X perfect? No, but it is much better, and it didn't take more than a couple weeks to get fully comfortable in the new environment, although I still find myself hitting the ctrl key rather than the command key for some shortcuts.

Re:Vista drove me to OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277849)

In time you'll get used to the command key, and since I assume you're a terminal user (although I shouldn't make that assumption) you'll probably appriciate it (a constant annoyance for me is that ctrl-c is inconsistant when working in Linux).

Beyond that, having a united "windows" (think WIMP, not the OS) command key makes sense. (think about a scenario where you want to copy and paste text between apps (in an optimal situation) where you use: cmd-C, cmd-tab, and cmd-V, rather than cmd-C, alt-tab, and cmd-V).

"...unthinkable"? Why??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277463)

I don't understand why it would be 'unthinkable' for him to switch to an OS that *HE* controls, instead of vice versa (Soviet-style ;)). What real-geek, power-user, hard-hacking nerd wouldn't prefer an OS that puts them in charge of everything???

Unless it's because noone will pay him to shill for Linux like he was so used to doing for M$...

1) Quit magazine editor job.
2) Start using real OS, and see the light.
3) ?????
4) Profi... er, 'Ask for donations'!

(Captcha for this comment: "Perplex". Wouldn't ya know...)

Re:"...unthinkable"? Why??? (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277803)

I don't understand why it would be 'unthinkable' for him to switch to an OS that *HE* controls,

Because he's a "sensible" conformist - a fully paid-up member of the Establishment.

Works fine for me. (1)

Zephiria (941257) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277471)

I've not had any problems with it in the last few weeks.
True I am back to running XP. But that's simply because I like to play Battlefield 2142 and it doesn't work quite right under Vista and knowing EA they have no intentions of helping matters.
With the compatibility patch coming in SP1 I might give it another try.
I really did enjoy using it, problems with Battlefield aside.

Why is linux unthinkable? (0)

bl8n8r (649187) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277497)

The motivation to try something else, if your current solution isn't working, should not be "unthinkable". Winston Churchill once said: "No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism"

This applies to whatever folly and ideal your "stuck" with whether it be Mac, Windows, Linux, Solaris or *BSD. If it's not working, change. You're the only thing stopping you from trying something different.

The first wisdom acquired when digging a hole is knowing when to stop digging; the first task you're faced with is deciding when it's deep enough.

Re:Why is linux unthinkable? (0, Troll)

craznar (710808) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277609)

"The first wisdom acquired when digging a hole is knowing when to stop digging; the first task you're faced with is deciding when it's deep enough."

Which is the exact wisdom I used to determine that Linux is unthinkable as a normal day to day desktop environment.

And will probably remain so for some years to go.

Re:Why is linux unthinkable? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277673)

I've been using linux on the desktop for 10 years, but I'm not sure it's the right choice for somebody who wants things to work all the time, or even be easily fixable. I still loathe jobs like making OpenGL acceleration work, and printing, and power management. Sometimes they work out of the box, sometimes you spend hours and never fix it (except power management of course - it never, ever works out of the box). And package management always seems to deteriorate over time and eventually crumble to pieces, leaving unresolvable dependencies or a corrupted database (and I'm talking about portage, rpm, and apt!) That said, I'm addicted to the control. I have my config files how I want them, I have weird custom setups, and to me Linux is still worth it, so far.

I was really surprised when the guy didn't end the sentence "I might just do the unthinkable: I might move to..." with "Macintosh." I think their slogan of "it just works" has a lot of truth to it, so long as you stay in the walled garden.

I suspect Louderback wrote that review months ago (4, Insightful)

cutecub (136606) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277509)

... and just waited to publish it until he was leaving PCMag.

As Molly Ivins said: "Ya gotta dance with them what brung you."

Louderback's job was to keep his advertisers happy and I'm sure that was a big factor in how he chose to color his experience with Vista.

Not surprising.

-S

timing? (5, Insightful)

nahpets77 (866127) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277511)

I've decided to try something new. I've jumped over to become CEO of Revision3, the leading Internet television network focused on developing programming for the on-demand generation.
Coincidence that he just happens to slam Vista at the same time he's leaving PC Mag? He even admits to giving Vista a "free pass", which basically means he didn't want to piss off MS while he was editor. I used to get PC Mag years ago, but stopped because I felt that the magazine was too biased in favor of MS. Also, his threat to leave Vista for Linux rings hollow to me...

Lightweight magazines are doomed (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277789)

I used to get PC Mag years ago, but stopped because I felt that the magazine was too biased in favor of MS.

I think all the big paper magazines around these parts have fallen for the same trap there. I gave up PC World, and later PC Pro, because their reviews of new versions of Windows, Office, etc. just seemed like sucking up to MS. That and the fact that in the latter case, they went to cover-DVD-only and more-or-less doubled the price, so I was paying more for a disc mostly full of junk and pretty much all of which I could just download if I wanted it than I was for a magazine that was half ads anyway. Oh, and the fact that most of their news stories were light on details, and those light details had been reported on the Internet weeks earlier.

The only point of still having magazines like this is if they can supply quality, in-depth reviews of products and industry analysis by people with the connections to find the material and the writing ability to report it well. If all they do is publish fluff reviews and sound-bite news, why on earth would I pay for that when I can read the same for free on-line?

It took him months? (2, Funny)

CPNABEND (742114) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277545)

I had Vista Home Premium up for a total of FOUR DAYS before I went back to XP Pro. Vista has a lot of warts, even compared to the initial rollout of WIN95/98, and XP.

Unthinkable? - Why? (4, Insightful)

bushboy (112290) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277625)

All I can say, he deserves what he got.

If you pander to just one operating system, as a supposed computer professional, your simply not up to the job in the first place.

A true, passionate PC user (and by that, I mean Personal Computer User, NOT just windows), you owe it to yourself to be up to speed on as much as possible. You should have at your fingertips either virtual or full iterations of Windows, Linux and MacOS.

The name of this magazine is "PC Magazine", to me, that means "Personal Computer Magazine" - of course, we all know the reality is that it's 90% windows based. (A personal irritation of mine is assuming that a PC is a windows box - akin to calling computer criminals hackers)

That the ex-editor should declare using Linux unthinkable is unthinkable in itself.

Lets hope the new editor has a bit more savvy, not that I care, I don't read computer magazines anymore, now I know why... ;)

Doing the unthinkable (5, Insightful)

overshoot (39700) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277639)

I might move to Linux.
Yeah, or you could hold your breath until you turn blue and die. THAT will make Bill and Steve sorry, won't it?

Thank you very much, but Linux doesn't need "friends" who use it as a Horrible Fate that they'll threaten to inflict on themselves as a way to get Mommy Microsoft's sympathetic attention.

Wha? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277653)

I've been using vista ultimate since about a week before the general public release and I've never had a single instance of "That worked fine in XP - stupid vista." Every piece of software I've used, every game, every network utility, every driver has worked with hardly a hiccup. I may just be lucky so far but I really don't see what the problem is. I'm not overly impressed that vista is better than XP - but it's certainly not worse.

Louderback on Linux (5, Funny)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277729)

You know we like to joke about signs of the apocalypse, but wow. I would almost look forward to that. Can you just imagine the Louderback articles we'd get with him on Linux?

vi v. emacs: The exciting new controversy
How to protect your children from The Gimp
Why won't anyone explain what GNU stands for?

Or he could.... (1)

Schnoogs (1087081) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277755)

...move back to XP. I still use XP on all of my machines despite having Vista licenses through my MSDN subscription. It works amazingly well, its stable and gaming is much better on it despite what MS claims. My two cents

Welcome to Linux (1)

Paracelcus (151056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277799)

In Windows if something pisses you off, you bitch about it and if you bitch loud enough and if enough other people bitch about the same thing, then in several months or a year (maybe) MS will fix it.

In Linux if something pisses you off, you can fix it yourself or contact the developer directly and talk about (or collaborate on) a fix!

Linux good
Windows bad

Wash in river, beat on rock, dry in sun, make clean!

Let's hope this is not the last one (1)

realdodgeman (1113225) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277809)

This article made my day. I have heard this happening all around me, but the media has kept on praising FUBAR OS. Let's hope that this is not the last time it happens.

Bathtub curve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277823)

It's very much a bathtub curve for MS operating systems as well. 95 and 98 were horribly unstable, some were okay near the "middle" (2000, XP), and now they're heading to DRM, making it as annoying for users if not more than daily reboots from the 9x days.

How long will he wait? (1)

cesman (74566) | more than 6 years ago | (#20277833)

He has waited nine months, the question is how much longer is he willing to wait? Jim, why threaten to do the unthinkable? Be a man of action and just do it. I did almost 10 years ago and I'm not looking back.

I certainly know what you can replace your media center with. That would be KnoppMyth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KnoppMyth/ [wikipedia.org]. I certainly couldn't have created it if I was still on Microsoft's teat.

"I might move to Linux" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20277847)

Why not just stick with XP?
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