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Going to Yosemite? Get Your Passport Ready!

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the certainly-not-of-or-for-the-people dept.

Privacy 969

rev_media writes to tell us that CNN has a few updates to the Real ID act currently facing legislators. The Real ID acts mandates all states to begin issuing federal IDs to all citizens by 2008. Costs could be as much at $14 billion, but only 40 million are currently allocated. Several states have passed legislation expressly forbidding participation in the program, while others seem to be all for it. The IDs will be required for access to all federal areas including flights, state parks and federal buildings. People in states refusing to comply will need to show passports even for domestic flights.

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969 comments

Wow (5, Funny)

UncleWilly (1128141) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280361)

$14 billion seems a little expensive, I'm glad I already have a passport.

Re:Wow (1)

Sallana (1144537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280741)

I don't think YOU would have to pay the $14 Billion.

Re:Wow (3, Insightful)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280799)

I don't think YOU would have to pay the $14 Billion.

If he's a US citizen, he will, on April 15th, just like the rest of us.

Re:Wow (3, Interesting)

thynk (653762) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280851)

Errrr... I don't think that's the price EACH... rather for price for all of them.

Personally, I don't see it as a big deal. I already have a federal ID (passport) and have to show an ID when boarding a plane (state issued DL or passport or military ID). I also used to carry a federal (DOD) ID card. Never once have I thought that having to prove who I say I am as an invasion of my privacy or my rights.

Other than closing loopholes, I'm not sure why they require it to enter a federal park - are we afraid the terrorist will go after the deer and chipmunks?

 

It's not the chipmunks you have to worry about... (3, Funny)

benhocking (724439) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280883)

It's the squirrels [sky.com] !

Wow (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280367)

Did America lose a war I didnt hear about?

Re:Wow (5, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280405)

Yes, actually it did. Just no one noticed.

It was the war to retain our prior way of life, which we obviously lost.

Re:Wow (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280621)

At least you were free-range sheep before... soon you'll be factory farmed.

Re:Wow (5, Insightful)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280879)

Otherwise known as the War on Terror. The terrorists won; we have lost our freedoms. They have changed our way of life.

Re:Wow (1, Insightful)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280777)

Yes, it was a brief war in 2004 - called the presidential elections...

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280781)

Yes, the war on terrorism.

Papers please! (4, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280391)

Papers please!

The slow slide to fascism began some time ago, but has really accelerated over the past six years or so. We have fewer rights now than ever before in the USA and I fear for where we are going.

For instance:

1) We now torture as part of imprisonment along with imprison people without the protections that the Geneva Convention provides and appear to detain people without formally charging them or letting them know what they are being charged with.

2) We have a fear mongering national obsession with security that despite all the money and bureaucracy spent and created still leaves us wide open to security threats while taxing business and limiting travel. Threat levels are increased without justification to apparently further political goals.

3) We have politicized education and science for political gain while at the same time stifled scientists from telling the facts/truth/scientific findings.

4) We have completely conflated religion and government funneling money into religious groups with strong ties into the government.

5) Taxation is only low for corporate and the most wealthy, while at the same time we have suppressed labor power and limited funding for intellectual and artistic pursuits.

6) We have rampant government corruption and funneling of government "no-bid" contracts to companies with strong ties to government.

7...... How much more do we have to add to really start becoming scared?

Re:Papers please! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280451)

As an old guy who grew up in the 50's and 60's I must say this nation is beginning to sound (and act) like the nation I was taught to fear... the soviet union.
Showing papers to travel within the country is not what a free people do.

Re:Papers please! (5, Informative)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280479)

"What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believe that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. " ~ an anonymous German Professor from 'They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1939-1945', by Milton Mayer

Re:Papers please! (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280503)

Showing papers to travel within the country is not what a free people do.

And I traveled within Poland (a former East Bloc) country a month ago. No one asked me for papers or cared much. Their rather relaxed attitude was certainly a nice change and a breath of fresh air.

-b.

Re:Papers please! (2, Insightful)

goldspider (445116) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280485)

And if you think any of that is going to change by electing Democrats, you've got another thing coming.

For example, we still occupy Iraq...

Re:Papers please! (5, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280567)

And if you think any of that is going to change by electing Democrats, you've got another thing coming.

Republicans....Democrats.... it does not matter. What matters is that we as a people take back those freedoms granted to us. Remember that the Constitution was not so much a document that granted individual rights, rather it was a document that described what government can and could not do. To paraphrase Jim Garrison who was speaking of Nazi Germany when he said that it was not a German phenomenon, "It is not a Republican/Democratic phenomenon, it is a human phenomenon and the slide to a proto-fascist state can happen here."

Re:Papers please! (1)

aichpvee (631243) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280703)

Yeah, the democrats have really been disappointing since they took control of congress. The problem we have in this country is that for most people if you aren't electing a democrat you are electing a republican. I don't know about you, but for my money the republicans are a whole lot worse than the democrats. If for no other reason (and there are many others) than that the democrats are a whole lot easier to throw out of power because they have fewer dirty tricks and don't own the voting machines or the supreme court.

Despite how poorly the democrats have served us lately it is still ridiculous to claim that there is no difference between the two parties.

Re:Papers please! (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280769)

There is no fundamental difference at all. The only difference is in where they're funneling our tax dollars.

Say whatever despicable things it takes to get (re)elected, and pay back the people who got you there. That's our government in a single sentence.

Re:Papers please! (5, Interesting)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280531)

We have fewer rights now than ever before in the USA
Careful. African Americans and women can own property, vote, and enjoy the rights that white males do. Gay marriage (and civil unions) is legal in some states now. A woman's right to choose the fate of her unborn child is protected. There are probably more rights which are guaranteed now which I can't think of off the top of my head. So although I agree that things aren't perfect in this country, most of the points raised by the parent poster are in no way new, and some things are much better than they have been at various points in the country's history.

Re:Papers please! (4, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280583)

Careful. African Americans and women can own property, vote, and enjoy the rights....

Indeed. I should have qualified that to say that we have fewer rights now than at any time before in the last 50 years.

Re:Papers please! (1)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280615)

Totally OT here: I checked out your webpage. I love the photos, and have actually run across the Phidippus audax ones before (my father also loves photographing these little guys). I also find your research fascinating. Thanks!

Re:Papers please! (4, Insightful)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280697)

You're totally correct, but I don't really want to say anything that would dampen the vigilience of the American people against tyranny. For example, In Hussein's Iraq, women were allowed to drive cars, walk around alone, go to school, become doctors, etc. He had a secular progressive state in a region full of Islamic theocracies and kingdoms. However, that doesn't mean that Hussein wasn't a brutal dictator who ruled with fear, megalomania, torture, secret police, etc. etc.

Re:Papers please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280725)

A woman's right to choose the fate of her unborn child is protected.

Yes, not to mention that unborn babies have the right to choose whether or not they want to live

Re:Papers please! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280839)

Yes, not to mention that unborn babies have the right to choose whether or not they want to live

They certainly do have that right.

If they want to live, all they have to do is leave the mother. And don't give me that liberal crap about how they "can't" leave and must therefore be protected by yet more layers of bureaucratic government. What you and your type are really about is a relentless drive for socialism, you goddamn commie pinkos!

Re:Papers please! (0, Troll)

Weezul (52464) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280547)

The U.S.A. is a collapsing empire. bye bye! :) I look forward to hearing about E.U. nations recognizing each state as an independent country.

Wipe that smile off your face (1)

benhocking (724439) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280853)

Look into the distribution of missile silos across our country, and reconsider whether it will be a good thing if each state is recognized as an independent country.

Re:Wipe that smile off your face (1)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280877)

Not to mention the fact that some of the states would have nearly third world status because there's no way they could sustain themselves economically or agriculturally.

There would be insane amouts of chaos and certain parts of the country would be as destabilized as large portions of the middle east and Africa are now.

All This To Support Israeli Terrorism (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280587)

30 billion more US taxpayer dollars on the way to arm and support Israeli terrorism.

And the destruction of all of your civil rights dealing with the consequences.

Disgusting.

You sit on your fat asses watching American Idol and blowing off voting while AIPAC floods US politicians with cash to support their anti-Arab terrorism.

Re:Papers please! (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280589)

Add to this:
(8) an obsession with regular (non-terrorist) crime and punishment. Outrageously long mandatory sentences, Megan's Laws, etc. Imprisonment for a large number of criminals is only a Band Aid on the mouth of a society that's coughing up blood -- we should address why large numbers of people need to turn to crime, reform our drug laws, and lock up (for a long time) only the segment of the population that's truly incorrigible.

Re:Papers please! (1)

DudeTheMath (522264) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280611)

What happened to the "full faith and credit" clause? Last I heard, we still had this piece of paper called the Constitution, although all three of the branches of government have had their scissors out....

they are trying to inspire a fear of islam alas (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280627)

This worries me. As every student of history knows, the first requirement of a dictatorship is to create an enemy.

How sad that this should be Islam. I'm not Islamic, nor am I a Christian, I find all religion suspect. What saddens me is that the Islamic world, whilst currently in a depressed state, is nonetheless the initiator of the modern world we live in. We use their alphabet, utilise and expand their mathematics, and have them to thank for preserving the 'western' ideas of the Greeks.

They weren't always the way they are now. Its desperately sad that the Islamic world is in such a poor condition, with mysogenism an illiteracy so rampant, but we were in the same state not too many centuries ago. Its because of their effect on the western world (particularly their ruling Spain), that drew us out of that state.

If all we do is become as paranoid and militaristic as the more extreme members of their culture (and ours) wish, we risk destroying a hugely important part of our heritage. Better that we step back and start to think of the 'enemy' as people who have problems, and ask them, without using armies, how we can help.

Re:Papers please! (1)

w3woody (44457) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280641)

I agree that the direction this country is headed in is insanity.

But let me pick a few nits:

We now torture as part of imprisonment along with imprison people without the protections that the Geneva Convention provides and appear to detain people without formally charging them or letting them know what they are being charged with.
Surprisingly the Geneva Conventions provides for this sort of behavior: the specific conventions the United States is signatory to does not protect individuals who are fighting in a war in a convert way. People who fight as soldiers but who are dressed as civilians are not protected--and in fact could be shot on the battlefield execution style.

One of the problem with the laws is that there are in fact two sets of laws: one for civilian legal enforcement--which is geared towards finding culpability after the fact, and one for fighting wars--which is geared towards blowing the other guy away before he blows you away. Where the line has gotten fuzzy--and in large part because of Terrorism tactics--is when you have what appears to be a band of civilians hell bent on blowing up a shopping mall. Do you prosecute them using the rules of wartime engagement and blow the fuckers away without a hearing? Or do you prosecute them using civilian enforcement rules and prosecute them after everyone is dead?

Or do you take a third path and try to find a line where you can get them before the fact but prosecute them under civilian rules of law enforcement? (If you answered 'curtain number three', welcome to the moral ambiguity of the 21st century where both Congress and the Administration find themselves.)

That said, this moral ambiguity should not be used to shred the Constitution and use it as toilet paper. Sadly, however, it seems everyone in Washington is hell bent on doing exactly this.

We have a fear mongering national obsession with security that despite all the money and bureaucracy spent and created still leaves us wide open to security threats while taxing business and limiting travel. Threat levels are increased without justification to apparently further political goals.
That's because--and it's a problem with all governments; we're just really sensitive to this--all bureaucracies want to be seen "doing something." Ohmygod, not enough security at the airport? Everyone take off your shoes. Not enforcing the national borders? Please show your internal papers. It's stupid in the extreme--and the fact that the Real ID act would require everyone to carry a fucking passport is because no-one wants to close the border with Mexico.

We have politicized education and science for political gain while at the same time stifled scientists from telling the facts/truth/scientific findings.
Oh, it gets worse: there are some avenues of expression--such as asserting publically that Global Warming is not happening--which some in our country would like to criminalize. Think about that for a second: it would be illegal--a federal violation--to post on Slashdot "I don't think global warming is happening, and here are my web links." Agree or disagree--but we are walking down the road that because of this politicization, people wish to make certain forms of expression against the law.

Taxation is only low for corporate and the most wealthy, while at the same time we have suppressed labor power and limited funding for intellectual and artistic pursuits.
Thank God for the Democrats who wish to raise taxes...

Your other points I haven't commented on because they've been true since almost the beginning of time.

The old forces which wanted to make the world into a totalitarian socialist "utopia" planted a number of seeds--'memes'--in the West which our public discourse is still sick from. Things like class resentment and using christian charity to encourage people to cede power to the Government are now running wild--creating a sort of political insanity in a number of people who are now using the current conflaguration between the West and radical Islamic elements to drive their points home. The very same people, for example, who are decrying the Real ID act on the one hand are demanding we turn over all health care decisions (including our health care records) to the very same government.

It strikes me that given how angry people are--these memes, rather than taking over, are in fact dying: for every one person I see saying "well, gosh; the Real ID act is just fine--here are my internal papers", you see five getting mad as hell.

Why Ron Paul should be President (1, Redundant)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280847)

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Ron Paul: "I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

high taxes != freedom (2, Insightful)

blitz487 (606553) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280859)

5) Taxation is only low for corporate and the most wealthy, while at the same time we have suppressed labor power and limited funding for intellectual and artistic pursuits.
1) high taxes is not a characteristic of freedom.
2) the tax on the wealthy is still higher than the tax on the poor.
3) government funding of intellectual and artistic pursuits is not a characteristic of freedom.

So ... Basically... (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280393)

Americans are going to have to show their papers before they are allowed to travel ...

 

Re:So ... Basically... (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280447)

Yes, allowed to travel EVEN IN THEIR OWN STATE, in many cases.

But of course when we all get rfid tags implanted, the point ( and the concept of individual freedom ) will be moot.

Our found fathers are spinning in their graves.

Re:So ... Basically... (4, Insightful)

Y-Crate (540566) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280529)

Yes, allowed to travel EVEN IN THEIR OWN STATE, in many cases.
Oh how far we've come from: Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle." And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Captain Ramius: I suppose.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.

Re:So ... Basically... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280685)

Modded funny??? There are so many other descriptions of that post; funny isn't one.

Re:So ... Basically... (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280625)

But of course when we all get rfid tags implanted, the point ( and the concept of individual freedom ) will be moot.
Speak for yourself. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

Re:So ... Basically... (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280661)

I'd rather live on my feet. So what do we do about it? Write our Congressman? I've tried that, on repeated occasions. I get the impression that they can't read. I've also tried the whole voting thing, but they seem to ignore those when they want. Now what?

Re:So ... Basically... (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280737)

If given the ability, of course I too would rather live on my feet. With the country seemingly slipping farther and farther into a police state however, I'm fearing that such may not be an option in the not-too-distant future. I write to my Congressman quite a lot, and in fact have a fairly strong, if not obviously impersonal, relationship with him. Of course this does nothing to change the politics because the few people willing to write their officials are by far in the minority. As sad as it is, most Americans don't even know of the problems our country face and may not even care if they did. If so, how many of them would be motivated enough to try to change things? Not many I'm willing to assume.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

--Thomas Jefferson

Re:So ... Basically... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280881)

I'm sorry, but the more I hear of him, the more Thomas Jefferson sounds like a dangerous, deranged psychopath.

Re:So ... Basically... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280739)

you could try blowing up a federal building or two...

Re:So ... Basically... (1)

really? (199452) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280687)

Yeah, und zis ist ein problem because? What haf du su hide? Are you ein Terrorist?

Your papers please. (1)

stox (131684) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280415)

Your genetic samples please.

Your thoughts please.

You have not been deemed a positive asset to our society. Please continue through the door on the left for genetic recycling.

Thank you for letting your government help you.

Your papers please. (5, Insightful)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280419)

Sir, your papers are not in order, please come with us..... No, this is not happening in 'Soviet Russia' this is happening in the United States of America One of the things that the US goverment kept on about during the cold war was that in the United States you did not need 'internal travel documents and passports' because it, the United States, was a free country..

Re:Your papers please. (4, Funny)

Skreems (598317) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280509)

You still won't, to travel between states. As long as you're not on an airplane. We're still free, honest.

Re:Your papers please. (1)

TheSkyIsPurple (901118) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280553)

But I will have to "show papers" to travel to points within my own state... Any federay run parks, etc...

Ron Paul is the best choice! (-1, Offtopic)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280825)

This is why we should vote Ron Paul into office. He wants to do away with this nonsense...

Ron Paul: "I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

remember when? (5, Insightful)

lecithin (745575) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280435)

Borodin: Do you think they will let me live in Montana?
Capt. Ramius: I would think they'll let you live wherever you want.
Borodin: Good. Then I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman, and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pick-up truck, or umm... possibly even...a recreational vehicle, and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Capt. Ramius: Oh yes.
Borodin: No papers?
Capt. Ramius: No papers. State-to-state.

Evil company: RealNetworks (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280437)

First RealPlayer, now Real ID. They're worse than Diebold.

Re:Evil company: RealNetworks (1)

jimbug (1119529) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280523)

Hopefully my new ID won't have to buffer for very long, or I might miss my flight!

Re:Evil company: RealNetworks (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280821)

If I'm forced to choose between RealPlayer and RealID, I think I'd opt for RealID.

Outrageous (1)

jay2003 (668095) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280449)

Today one does not have to show any id to enter a national park. The Bush administration clearly wants to turn America into a police state. I can only hope the Democrats in Congress grow a spine and repeal this monstrosity..

Re:Outrageous (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280543)

Umm, the bill hasn't even been passed. And if it does get passed, who are you going to blame? Bush or the Democrat congress?

Re:Outrageous (2, Insightful)

Gyga (873992) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280637)

Congress for passing it, Bush for not vetoing it.

You're kidding, right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280603)

The democrats are in full support of this and have done much to support the legislation that enabled and continues to enable this bullshit. Ignorance of the lack of real difference between the two parties in one of the reasons we're in this mess. Wake up. The democrats aren't the 'good guys' and the republicans aren't the 'bad guys'. They're ALL BAD. Every single one of them. Until more people realize this fact and begin to act accordingly, we will continue down our slide into a surveillance/police state.

Actually... (1)

msauve (701917) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280631)

Today one does not have to show any id to enter a national park.
That is not true. You must pay for, and display, an admission pass to visit your own property.

Re:Outrageous (1)

tfiedler (732589) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280653)

the democrats, any different, really? that same level or trust in the current power structure is what got us the patriot act and now this. democrats and republicans are like cancer and aids, both will make you sick or kill you and you don't want either of them.

Re:Outrageous (0, Redundant)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280807)

Yes - normally I would vote Libertarian, but I think our best chance is US Rep Dr. Ron Paul

Ron Paul: "I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Re:Outrageous (1)

pookie13 (832250) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280867)

I have always wondered why there are only two political parties in the USA? Is it because all the others are so small and not to be taken seriously or is it because it's always easier to blame 'the other party'? Is it so that the parties can gather followers by just saying that if you're not with us you're with them? It gives a really black and white picture of the whole American politics.
For example here in Finland the government is formed by four parties and there are total eight parties in the parliament. And yes, we also have national id for all citizens and we don't think that the big brother is watching us all the time.

Hacker target (1)

gorfie (700458) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280457)

It also requires all 245 million license and state ID holders to visit their local departments of motor vehicles and apply for a Real ID by 2013. Applicants must bring a photo ID, birth certificate, proof of Social Security number and proof of residence, and states must maintain and protect massive databases housing the information.

I don't think I've ever seen a target more tempting for hackers...

Re:Hacker target (1)

BlueStrat (756137) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280659)

"It also requires all 245 million license and state ID holders to visit their local departments of motor vehicles and apply for a Real ID by 2013. Applicants must bring a photo ID, birth certificate, proof of Social Security number and proof of residence, and states must maintain and protect massive databases housing the information."

"I don't think I've ever seen a target more tempting for hackers..."

Hackers? Who needs hackers? It's no secret that one can easily find a low-paid Secretary of State clerk that will give you practically any information you want for a few hundred dollars, and for a few hundred more, get you an ID/drivers license with whatever name and information on it you'd like. All nice and official-like, with the hologram/stamp/mag strip and everything. Besides, if all that fails, you'll probably be able to just use a Mexican Consular ID (Matricula) to obtain a state ID/drivers license just about anywhere soon anyway, if certain groups get their way. This will be another typical government program, in that many billions will be spent to accomplish exactly zero, except to cost/inconvenience/harass/expose to crime law-abiding and/or poor people.

Cheers!

Strat

Re:Hacker target (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280747)

I don't think I've ever seen a target more tempting for hackers...

You mean "crackers" or "thieves", not hackers. The media conscripted that word to mean criminal activity, but that's just wrong. As any scholar of totalitarianism will tell you, one of the best ways to control a population is to control the popular lexicon. Hacker is synonymous with many words, but criminal isn't one of them.

In any event, you're absolutely correct: not only is this a target but it's multiple huge targets: each individual State has to maintain a separate database on all of it's own citizens. Given the Government's (any government's) track record on information security you can bet this will not only be a target but will get successfully cracked. People are going to get hurt, bank accounts are going to be drained, identities stolen. The Feds have to know this: the fact these assholes are going ahead anyway is sociopathic and treasonous. Heads deserve to roll for even proposing this nonsense.

So it's going to happen by 2013. Well, that's several years away. It means I still have time to get filthy rich and politically-connected so I won't have to worry about any of this.

quibble (1)

kqc7011 (525426) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280461)

That should read national parks not state parks. What about travel on federal highways?

Re:quibble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280711)

There isn't any such thing, fortunately. Well I don't claim to know how Washington DC is set up. But the rest of the states own their part of the Interstate. The Feds just control them via all the money they steal from the citizenry every year.

2 + 2 = 5 (1, Insightful)

gen0c1de (977481) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280499)

Wow more step closer to making this point reality. If/when this goes into effect the US will be the very thing they were getting away from all those many years. I guess the saying is true, "what comes around goes around." I guess no one wants to remember history.

GG

Vote for Ron Paul 2008 (5, Insightful)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280519)

I don't agree with all of his politics, especially his stances on abortion and public health care, but he may be the least authoritarian out there. If you think that most Democrate will be better, they're just as bad.

Re:Vote for Ron Paul 2008 (4, Interesting)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280673)

I don't agree with all of his politics, especially his stances on abortion and public health care...
I don't agree with Ron Paul about a lot of things, either.

But the wonderful thing about him is that, as a libertarian, he believes that the federal government has no role in deciding these issues. He would leave them up to the states to decide. In favor of women's reproductive rights? Create a petition to get the matter into your state legislature or constitution. Want single payer health care? Pressure your state representatives, or, again, get enough signatures to get it on your state's ballots.

Wow, people might actually start to feel like we have a representational democracy again, instead of a bunch of Washington insiders bought by corporate lobbyists!

Re:Vote for Ron Paul 2008 (-1, Redundant)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280863)

Actually Ron Paul tends to be more of a true Constitutionalist instead of a true libertarian. He is both, but I think his Constitutional philosophies come before his libertarian philosophies.

On this topic, you should see this video:

Ron Paul: "I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Re:Vote for Ron Paul 2008 (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280681)

Fool! Vote for me instead everyone! Remember to write in Morari when you're at the ballots. As President my first point of business will be to officially change the title of "President" to Supreme Overlord of Infinity, or perhaps God Emperor of the United Territories of Morari... that's for you, the people, to decide though!

Re:Vote for Ron Paul 2008 (0, Redundant)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280765)

See these two quick videos:

Ron Paul: "I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Costs of passport (3, Informative)

Dr Reducto (665121) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280521)

If they require a passport to do some of those things like fly or enter public buildings, that will signifigantly impact poor people.

My passport cost me 97 dollars last time I got one, and not everyone has that kind of money lying around

Re:Costs of passport (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280579)

Well, if they're that poor they're probably criminals anyhow, and so shouldn't get to move around freely.

Re:Costs of passport (1)

chefmonkey (140671) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280657)

Apparently, the only other option if this authoritarian legislation goes through is to charge $100 for a drivers' license (from TFA). I can only imagine that will impact more poor people more severely. I mean, let's face it: if you're flying instead of taking a bus or plane, you're lower-middle class at worst -- and national parks are nice, but they're hardly a necessity.

Now, living in America without being able to drive a car -- that's a hardship for a lot more people.

Re:Costs of passport (1)

Scuff (59882) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280789)

I mean, let's face it: if you're flying instead of taking a bus or plane, you're lower-middle class at worst
If you're flying instead of taking the bus or plane, what the hell are you flying on?

Re:Costs of passport (-1, Troll)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280753)

Mine too... and it took MONTHS to get back in the mail.

Dr. Ron Paul of Texas who is running for President is one of the only politicians opposed to this nonsense...

"I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Chertoff (0, Flamebait)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280549)

... his name basically means "Satan" in Russian, not to mention that he even looks like Old Scratch in the picture in TFA. *Sigh* - how do we get such people in government?

Feds threaten the states (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280555)

This line is telling:

          Chertoff said there would be repercussions for states choosing not to comply.

Wow, that's an interesting threat.

It will be interesting what the next administration tries to do to undo this mess.

The next administration... (-1, Troll)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280733)

If it is Ron Paul he will refuse to enforce the REAL ID, and demand Congress repeal it.

Here is what he says:
"I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com] [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Re:The next administration... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280873)

Ok. We get it. You like Ron Paul. Quit spamming the website.

Stupid Fear Mongoloid (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280569)

From the article:

"For terrorists, travel documents are like weapons," Chertoff said

But, Walsh said, "any state that's refusing to implement this key recommendation by the 9/11 Commission, and whose state driver's licenses are as a result used in another terrorist attack, should be held responsible."
What a fucking fear-mongerer!

So, if the next terrorists have one of these internal passports, what are the consequences for the people promoting the Real-ID program? Will they be held responsible? Another 9/11 and will the people running DHS be convicted of manslaughter? Can't have it both ways Cheeseoff!

Re:Stupid Fear Mongoloid (1)

gen0c1de (977481) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280633)

Nothing the Real-ID program will get an upgrade and make it necessary for you to have an RFID implant else you go to jail. And the people promoting will just secure themselves another contract.

Snow Crash (1)

Secacat (1096785) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280609)

Another move towards Snow Crash's Fedland. (Big)If there is a collapse/singularity/etc. the US Gov. seems ready to self-isolate into small paranoid parcels.

There's the US Gov. and rest of us, pick your side.

I fly with no ID all the time. (1)

w0ss (530552) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280689)

I fly with no id when the lines are long. All that happens is you are a "selectee" never been a problem so how will this be any different?

A passport is not a requirement (3, Insightful)

gelfling (6534) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280691)

A passport is a fallback document if you don't have one of these Federal ID's pretty much like today if you don't have a photo ID to get on a plane. Now I'm sure my state the Great State of Redneck-NorthCarolinastan will determine that getting one of these Federal ID's is even more expensive but I'm sure they'll accept a hunting license or a document from any Baptist Church in a pinch.

Ron Paul wants to do away with REAL ID! (0, Redundant)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280713)

Ron Paul thinks that we do not need a national ID and that the REAL ID is a power grab.

"I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO A NATIONAL ID CARD. this is a contradiction of what a free society is all about. The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and privacy of all individuals, NOT the secrecy of government. WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL ID CARD"

See this 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HIYVXklvsQA [youtube.com]

and

the 1 minute video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGHCEbL4U7E [youtube.com]

Am I the only one worried about... (0, Offtopic)

Aardpig (622459) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280715)

...letting Real run the ID card system? I mean, haven't they already fucked up enough with Real Player?

Finally ... a measure that's right on the button ! (2, Insightful)

golodh (893453) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280745)

How many of you realise that Americans are just about the worst security risk on the planet after AK-47 toting Pashtun tribesmen?

Just look at the facts:

- in the US, on average, one in two households has a firearm ... because they feel threatened by other Americans

- the US has the highest murder rate in the developed world

The facts are clear ... let's face it: Americans constitute a security risk.

Mandating photo ID's to be worn by all of then is therefore a spot-on measure, and probably the least we can do. Right?

Question... (1)

MagicDude (727944) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280759)

Isn't this basically the way things are right now? All they're doing is replacing the driver's license with the new national ID. You already can't enter federal govt areas or get on airplanes or even trains without identification, and every college campus is rife with examples of how not secure the driver's license system is. I recall reading somewhere that the DMV is not, and was never designed to be a bureau which handled the task of identification of individuals; it was simply supposed to be the department which said if you were qualified to operate a car.

Your Rights *ONLINE*?? (1)

Andrew Tanenbaum (896883) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280763)

ScuttleMonkey, you should have put this diatribe in the Politics section. You know, the one with the *AMERICAN* flag on the header graphics. I live in Nederland and don't give a shit about the United States, and I don't want to see this irrelevancy on my front page when I've already filtered out the Politics section.

Solution: Pick any other country. Move there. (5, Interesting)

soldoutactivist (1137475) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280773)

There was a time when I couldn't imagine living in another country, not even as an exchange student. I've even turned down fantastic job offers from other countries because they simply weren't in America. But almost everyday now something happens, a law is passed, or another degree shaven off of what once made this country great is added to "Why isn't this the greatest country in the world anymore?" The next time a foreign job offer comes around, I'm probably going to take it, there's just not enough reasons not to these days. And even if one doesn't, Vancouver, BC is a very beautiful city. Get out while you still can.

If you didn't vote Libertarian YOU ASKED FOR THIS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280787)

This is yet another example of the Republicrats and Democans taking control away from the states at gunpoint much like they are taking it away from the citizens at gunpoint. All of what they are doing is unconstitutional according to the tenth amendment. They are already starting to violate the other amendments as well.

Remember folks, nanny state + welfare state=police state. If you don't vote Libertarian in every election, then you are asking for the USA to become the United Police States of America.
_____________________________________
A vote against a Libertarian candidate is
a vote to abolish the Constitution itself.

I left america and I'm NEVER going back (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280805)

I left America five years ago to live in a European country. Granted, things aren't perfect but I would NEVER fucking go back and live in America again. The country is increasingly deluded, lazy, fearful (Slashdot company excepted), and awash with shit food. Don't even bother to argue - the Stop and Shop has lots of food, but it is mostly crap.

I make roughly $70,000 per year - so I'm a member of the middle class. Why the hell would I leave this Western democracy where my taxes actually generate a tangible benefit for me and my children in the form of healthcare that isn't contingent on my current employer? The food is generally fresher and the markets more diverse, if I pay for primary and secondary education for my kids it is a HELL of a lot better and the university fees are negligible.

The American middle class is getting totally fucked - and has been for years. What the fuck do your tax dollars buy you? What precisely does the current federal government do for the middle classes?

Do the math (1)

DynaSoar (714234) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280817)

It comes to $50 for every single person in the U.S.

And that's just to start the program. The figures for continued operation aren't included. The Texas figures appear to reflect the fact that half of states will probably not participate.

If Texas has to charge $100 per, I sure hope mine doesn't accidentally fall into the microwave. That could really bollox up the wait line at DFW when I fly out.

Pass a law that makes it illegal for any legislator to receive profit from stock in any company contracted to supply goods or services for the program, and same for anyone associated in any way with them, and watch how fast it falls apart.

Actually, the Texas figure probably represent the legislation's attempt the scare Texans into demanding the state scrap the program, so the legislators can claim it was public pressure. And that's fine -- they work with us, we work with them. I'd say I'm surprised we haven't already voted the program down, but I've seen too many pro-Dubya stuff come out of here recently that's entirely contrary to traditional Texan independence.

Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20280827)

*** People in states refusing to comply will need to show passports even for domestic flights. ***

Good. Because people wearing tinfoil hats are tards.

i'm all for DNA samples being taken and stored at birth too - think on all of the crimes that would be easier to solve if you had DNA ot match to already in a database.

Anyways, I'm glad they require it for all federal stuff. Then they will piss off people in states that passed laws banning the RealID act, and those people will vote for change due to the inconvenience.

Can't wait for the govt to state that 'in order to renew or obtain a passport, you must have a Real ID issued'

Awesome.

Round and round she goes.... (4, Interesting)

Stanislav_J (947290) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280835)

Y'all are missing the real Catch-22 here. How could a passport substitute for Real ID? A passport is a federal document. Once Real ID is in effect, no doubt you will need one to obtain or renew a passport, no? So if you have no Real ID, you can't use your passport instead, because you will need the ID to get or renew the passport. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This battle isn't over yet by far, because in addition to the few states that have explicitly refused to participate, many others are discussing it in their legislatures, and some of those are leaning towards saying "drop dead" to the Feds as well. Sooner or later, we will reach a critical mass of states that represent a significant enough percentage of the U.S. population (and, hence, of voters) that would be classified as second-class citizens, and that will put the kibosh on the whole mess. I just hope those legislatures have some backbone....

You can keep up with the current status of Real ID legislation in the various states at the Real Nightmare [realnightmare.org] website.

Do illegal aliens need one? (1)

scifiber_phil (630217) | more than 6 years ago | (#20280849)

Will the millions of illegals need one? What happened to the "If we lose our freedoms, then the terrorists have won"? Pastors are secretly being told by FEMA to preach on Romans 13 stressing obedience to the government.I am increasingly fearful that we will lose the constitutional rights that are still left.In our system, governmental power is supposed to flow from the consent of the governed. In our system, the government is subordinate to the citizens. The government, it seems, no longer believes this. If your representatives are unwilling to put the brakes on these sorts of abuses, it's time to elect ones that will. I used to laugh at the tinfoil hat crowd, now I wear one myself.
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