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Paramount to Drop Blu-Ray for HD-DVD

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the eggs-and-baskets dept.

Movies 476

JM78 writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation will be dropping support for Blu-ray Disc and going solely with HD-DVD for their next gen DVDs. "Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the movies available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market. 'It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them,' Katzenberg said."

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First post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299017)

First post!

gay anal feces (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299229)

Hey, you clicked!

One modpoint wasted, 9 more to go for the day. Moderator, you are a douchebag. Help me out by modding me down and up.

MODERATORS!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299331)

Mod parent up!

(Only eight more to go after this post...or fewer if you are a good mod :D )

Go stick in a tampon, kid... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299523)

annoying!

Yeah, right. (5, Insightful)

taskiss (94652) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299027)

I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.

Re:Yeah, right. (0, Flamebait)

Spudtrooper (1073512) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299043)

I love the smell of burning blu-ray in the morning. Smells like...victory.

Re:Yeah, right. (2, Informative)

cyphercell (843398) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299057)

I think the deals are being made all over the place, funny though when you look at it, it's still essentially a stalemate. I'm backing blu-ray, odds are you back hd-dvd.

Re:Yeah, right. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299091)

I'm backing whoever is losing at the moment in the hope that the stalemate will continue and they will both fail. Death to physical media.

Re:Yeah, right. (3, Interesting)

taskiss (94652) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299103)

I don't have a horse in this race. I just want the reader/writer to come down in price already!

Re:Yeah, right. (5, Insightful)

Araxen (561411) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299345)

I'm backing whomever gets sub $100 first. Blu-ray doesn't appear to be too aggressive in the pricing part of this war. The dvd's themselves are a stalemate are far as I'm concerned. I'll be surprised if any studio will actually fill up an entire blu-ray dvd to make HD-DVD look that much more inferior of a format so it all comes down to price for me.

The studios will go wherever the biggest user base is eventually.

Re:Yeah, right. (1)

Virgil Tibbs (999791) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299061)

And I smell bribery...

Re:Yeah, right. (4, Informative)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299281)

I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.

Doubly suspicious since the family friendly Blockbuster Rental stores simply will be stocking mostly Blu-Ray.

"Paramount's move comes weeks after Blockbuster, the DVD rental chain, said it would stock more Blu-ray discs to cope with rising consumer demand."

From the article here;
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8569e16-4f61-11dc-b485- 0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b 5df10621.html [ft.com]

The End of this Format War? (0, Redundant)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299047)

I sure hope so. I've been holding off buying into one of these technologies until the format war ends. This sounds like it could be the beginning of the end.

Re:The End of this Format War? (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299129)

The end? This is one of the very few pieces of recent good news in favor of HD-DVD, and you're already predicting Blu-ray's demise?

Re:The End of this Format War? (3, Insightful)

kimvette (919543) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299221)

The end result is obvious: eventually every player is going to be pushing drives that handle both high-capacity/high-def formats as well as DVD and CD, much like we saw with DVD-R vs. DVD+R. I agree though: this has been the only good news on HD-DVD's side in a while.

Not quite (1)

hax0r_this (1073148) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299145)

Its more like making sure the format war doesn't end. Blu Ray has been kicking HD DVD in the rear of late (2:1 sales ratio), so at best this will just even things up so as to prolong our misery. Or prolong our good excuse not to blow several hundred dollars...

Re:Not quite (2, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299213)

Well yes but the real truth is that DVDs have been beating Blu Ray and HD DVD by about 500:1
I don't think that blu ray has all that much in the way of momentum.

Re:Not quite (4, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299567)

Exactly, the 2:1 sales ratio doesn't mean much when they sold so few units. It would be like comparing Mac computer sales to Linux computer sales, and forgetting to mention that windows sales are still through the roof. The simple fact is that most people don't care about HD movies. Same way they didn't care about HD Audio. There's just too little of a quality difference for most people to justify the inflated price, and a format war doesn't help the situation in the slightest.

Re:The End of this Format War? (1, Interesting)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299205)

Not when Spielberg made certain that his movies were still released on BluRay. It says something when the premier director of the last 20-30 years says that he won't let politics like this keep his movies from being on both formats. I also love their "research" that "people who own gaming consoles buy fewer movies than those who invest in a movie-only player", when I personally already own 19 BluRay discs and I only own a PS3. This is how they are trying to discredit the install base everyone. The PS3 is the BEST BluRay player on the market. Why would anyone buy a different player? This has been shown in many different reviews from top A/V sites. The people buying BluRay players are all buying the PS3, so their "research" is a load of crap based on a totally flawed study using data from older DVD era. The fact is, when the best unit isn't just a stand-alone player but a game console, you have to look at what the best player was when your DVD era data was collected. I can tell you that the best player then certainly wasn't the PS2, and was a standalone unit (Sony, Denon, Pioneer, etc., etc.,) not an integrated console. Now the console has more processing power then any standalone can compete with, as well as excellent digital connectivity. The other players are not even in its league (which is also why it will be getting the upgrade to the newer BluRay standard just finialized because it has the processing overhead to be able to handle it and is a software based player which allows full upgrades of functionality unlike the other hardware based players which will not be able to get this big of a change to their programming because they do not have hardware that can support the functions).

No - the Beginning.... (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299207)

Previously Blu-Ray sales had been about 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray, though the whole year (66% to 34%, to be exact). Sony Blu-Ray players in the last few months have actually been outselling Toshiba standalone players, and that's not counting the PS3 numbers.

Target had announced they were only offering a dedicated Blu-Ray player in store, and Blockbuster was only going to offer Blu-Ray in store.

Now, with Paramount and Dreamworks the equation has changed. Blu-Ray still has really significant exclusives in Fox, Disney, and Sony (Star Wars/Pixar/Spider Man!). But, it will take much longer for Blu-Ray to win, if it can eventually. This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming tehre was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.

The rumor [deadlineho...ddaily.com] is that Microsoft paid Paramount $50M, and Dreamworks $100M, to make this switch (until now they had been neutral). Why would Microsoft do this? Pretty simple, if consumers are confused about which format to buy they are more likley just to download HD content from the only provider currently sellign HD content online. That provider is Microsoft...

Bad news basically for consumers interested in HD content, as this will really kill sales for both formats through the year. Consumers want one choice.

Re:No - the Beginning.... (1)

goatpunch (668594) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299365)

Previously Blu-Ray sales had been about 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray, though the whole year (66% to 34%, to be exact). Sony Blu-Ray players in the last few months have actually been outselling Toshiba standalone players, and that's not counting the PS3 numbers.
But Blu-Ray only got that momentum from the PS3, before it's release HD-DVD was outselling Blu-Ray. That's _9_Months_ with the lead! These are very early days, and bigger market leads have been lost in the past- see IBM, Atari, Betamax, and Dreamcast.

Consumers want one choice.
Do you work for Sony?

Re:No - the Beginning.... (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299547)

Of course consumers want there to be a clear winner so they can make a safer investment int he next technology.

What kind of a hack assumes someone works for Sony based on such a banal assessment?

The most fascinating thing these days is how easy it is to be accused of being a Sony employee or shill.

Pretty dirty what Microsoft is being accused of, eh? I have no idea if that's true though. That kind of money is serious cash, even for MS. They've been spending a lot on that GTA 4 game and on the XBOX division (which makes the XBOX a great bargain, but it's still very cutthroat to undercut below profit margin just to kill a poorer competitor).

We all know that Microsoft intends to get all this money back by screwing the customer over with DRM expiring movies. It's bad business, and it's obvious that Microsoft won't be able to hold onto any kind of living room monopoly even if it does manage to destroy Sony. Bad business, all around.

What if there was a war, and nobody came... (4, Insightful)

pyro_peter_911 (447333) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299631)

This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming there was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.

What if there was a war, and nobody came. [frogcircus.org]

The High Def format war seems more like a clown pie fight to me. Neither side is offering me anything that I want.

The technology is so laden with anti-customer "features" that, frankly, I hope the both lose. I think this is a realistic possibility as downloadable HD content becomes commonly available, which you hit on later in your post.

Peter

Re:The End of this Format War? (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299323)

I sure hope so. I've been holding off buying into one of these technologies until the format war ends.

I'm waiting till the DRM war ends. CSS on regular DVD's is broken. AcidRip, Kalidascope and other programs can load your DVD's on your hard drive so the kids don't break the originals. The HD formats haven't quite gotten there in consumer friendliness yet.

I can rip regular DVD's to put on my kids Zen Video. It may take a few more years, but I'll wait and use regular DVD's in the meantime.

For those of us not following the issue (1)

Bombula (670389) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299613)

For those of us who aren't following this issue very closely, would anyone care to explain why the obvious solution - a player that will play both formats - isn't feasible at the moment?

I wonder... (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299063)

Will this make Sony feel...blue?

Re:I wonder... (1)

Virgil Tibbs (999791) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299087)

i gues they could stand the jokes about paramount BLU-ray movies...
i bet they chose HD-DVD because it had a "less suggestive name"

What's the Motive? (2, Interesting)

Rorzabal (1138403) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299067)

I have to ask myself, what's the motive a studio would have with going toward HD DVD technology vs. Blu-Ray?
It seems to me that they are trying to steer towards a format that contains half the data storage capacity with the goal of having yet another format go obsolete sooner rather than later. They must make a ton of money when people re-purchase titles on a new format. Soon these same studios will be 'crying' because they don't have enough data space on a disc, therefore they have to push a new standard.

Re:What's the Motive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299089)

To keep one sde from winning, and then they can really sell us another pair of crap in a few years, and have us rebuy stuff again! Brilliant!

Re:What's the Motive? (2, Interesting)

Spudtrooper (1073512) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299095)

I have to ask myself, what's the motive a studio would have with going toward HD DVD technology vs. Blu-Ray?


Actually, there's a decent examination of the possible reasons for the choice over at Fat Harry's Bullshit Emporium and Discount Taxidermist [aintitcool.com] .

Re:What's the Motive? (2, Informative)

neo8750 (566137) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299141)

I have to ask myself, what's the motive a studio would have with going toward HD DVD technology vs. Blu-Ray?
Well for one they figure that there is a large mass of people with the hd-dvd player compared to the people with blue-ray players. also even the summary of the article answered your question with "He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market."

Re:What's the Motive? (5, Insightful)

ytsejammer (817925) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299307)

Really? Has there really been a major outcry among studios that DVD was just too small? If there has been, I haven't been aware of it.

Besides, do you really think there will be another physical format after this? I'd be willing to bet that by the time this format war is finished and another one ready to begin, digital distribution will be quite ubiquitous.

Typical Sony (0, Troll)

Ralph Spoilsport (673134) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299077)

BluRay, please meet betamax. I'm sure you'll get along just fine...

RS

Don't forget about me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299151)

MiniDisc?! You've heard of me, right? Right??! Hey, you think Playstation 3 will want to hang out later?

Re:Don't forget about me! (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299559)

You would have had a point if you mentioned UMD, but Sony made a lot of money on the Minidisc. Just because something isn't true in the United States, does mean it isn't everywhere.

Does anyone even care at this point? (4, Interesting)

FreeKill (1020271) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299083)

I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end, there can't be that many consumers out there who are planning to start upgrading their existing DVD collection to one of these formats. I have an HDTV and regular DVD's look just fine. I know these new formats offer better quality, but the difference and enhancements are not enough to warrant an upgrade. From VHS to DVD was worthwhile, this is just a stop gap measure. I personally don't plan to upgrade at all until something significantly better comes along. Maybe the next generation after this...

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (4, Insightful)

sxltrex (198448) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299175)

The thing I can't believe is that they expect anyone to make any sort of investment as long as there are two formats. Too many of us remember being burned by VHS/Beta. That's one of the reasons CDs were such a huge hit--when the CD came out it was a tremendous improvement PLUS there was no format competition. I won't even consider either format until it is the only format. Until then, I could care less about the details.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (2, Interesting)

goatpunch (668594) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299309)

This time around the competing media are the same physical size, and even use the same codecs. In a few years time all players will be dual-format HD-DVD & Blu-Ray, and you'll need the red and blue boxes to tell them apart on your shelf.

CDs actually had quite a bit of competition from cassette tapes early on. The quality of pre-recorded tapes improved as did the decks, and other than a bit of background hiss they could hold their own against CDs which were about double the price.

The first audio CDs (US$30) and players (US$900) were released in 1982, and Audio CD didn't become the leading music format until the early 90's. Many cars had cassette players as standard until the late 90's.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (2, Interesting)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299181)

I just want a Blu-Ray writer for my computer, backing up 25GBs of data on a single layer disc would make it worth it for me.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299233)

Yeah but you still need to wait and see which format wins. HD-DVD is writable as well. Even if you only bought it for writing computer stuff if Blu-Ray fails then you will have a hard time finding and paying for Blu-Ray media and such. Much better to wait and go with whichever is the most popular.

Personally I see Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both as a failure. You can't even get HD-DVD stuff anyway. Blu-Ray is expensive and feels like a niche product. In a few years I believe we will see something else come along that blows both of them away and everybody will be using that instead.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299241)

Backups? To a Scru-Ray disc? Are you nuts? One minor scratch to that disc and you can kiss your data goodbye. HD-DVD is a more robust option.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299325)

What's your point? Only talking about the thickness of the polycarbonate layer or something else like error correction or something? I know blu-ray had a much slimmer protection layer but I where under the impression that it was hardened somehow so it wouldn't be much of an issue?

But then again I remember stories about how someone during the birth of the compact disc walked around on them lying on the floor, and well, we all know how good storing your discs on the floor are, not very :)

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (3, Informative)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299563)

Bluray and HD-DVD have virtually identical technologies in almost all ways except data density and software. The scratch proof coating is actually pretty scratch proof on both. The only difference is in HD DVD it's optional. So really cheap HD-DVD's will be as bad as really cheap DVD's while Blu-ray has to be coated if they want to stamp it bluray.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (2, Informative)

tgd (2822) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299189)

Actually, yeah. I know a lot of people (myself included) who have not bought a new DVD in a year -- I'm not going to rebuy my collection, and its silly at this point to buy them in SD.

The format war needs to end, either through surrender (unlikely) or through dual-format players becoming available.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299375)

You are a very tiny piece of the market though. Your anecdotal experience aside most people could care less right now. Even a lot of geeks.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299193)

Umm... what are you retarded? Upgrading to a new Optical format is completely different than upgrading a physical format.

an Optical player that uses media that is the same physical format can simply be outfitted with the right laser and logic to read the older format disk.

It is even easier on an HDDVD player because they do not even have to add another Laser.. HDDVD uses a red laser for high def media.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

ForumTroll (900233) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299203)

I care because one of these formats will be prevalent in both desktop and laptop computers in the near future. I would prefer for that to be the better of the two formats (Blu-Ray).

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

goatpunch (668594) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299227)

In a few years time when dual format players are $50, and the HD disks sell for the same price as DVDs, you might feel differently.

I've only bought a handful of HD-DVDs, I don't in any way feel a need to 'collect' films, most of which are throwaway watch-once things, and can't think of a film I like enough 're-buy' it in HD. I have bought a couple of recent HD-DVDs such as Hot Fuzz- the HD version is only US$8 more, is backward-compatible with DVD, and contains a ton of exclusive extras.

How big an HDTV did you get? If you sit an appropriate distance from it you're kidding yourself if you think High def doesn't look signficantly better than DVD. Once I started getting used to the (even 720p) output from my Xbox 360 I realized how crappy DVDs look, even upscaled. At this moment in time, would you save a couple of bucks to buy a movie on VCD instead of DVD? It'll still be watchable on your HDTV. You don't 'need' HD anymore than you 'need' DVD over VCD. If you bought 1080p TV just to upscale movies, I think you should question the point behind the fancy TV in the first place.

The most stunning thing I've watched so far in HD-DVD is Planet Earth, try seeing it in HD if you get the chance, and then decide if there's a difference for yourself.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

FreeKill (1020271) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299521)

It's not that I can't tell the difference, I definitely can. I just don't find myself sitting there, watching a regular DVD, and getting upset over the poor quality. It's not a significant enough difference to convince me to spend 10-15 dollars more per DVD and also to invest in a player that is so much more money to buy. As the price points plummet and the war is won (or a draw with duel players) then it will be an entirely different story. By the time that happens though, I bet physical movie media will be going the same way as physical music media...

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

alphaseven (540122) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299231)

Personally I never understood the appeal of DVDs. I bought a DVD player maybe six years or so ago and used it to watch rented movies but I didn't see the appeal of buying DVDs with high definition discs just a few years around corner. Sure it took a few years longer than I expected but I'm sure there must be a lot of people like me who avoided starting a movie collection because DVDs seemed like a low-res stop-gap technology until HDTVs and those blue-violet lasers (which both Blu-ray and HD DVD use) became affordable.

While there'll be future technologies I think 1080p will be high enough since we're getting into film grain territory, and while downloading movies is the future they'll likely be of lower quality (like MP3s vs CDs), so I hope one of these formats wins soon so I can start buying discs.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299389)

Back when I bought my DVD-player I had no idea whatsoever about HD. But then I live in europe and we where very slow to catch on. No HD-love for us, now a lot of people probably buy a HD-ready display thought, just to watch SD-content on...

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (3, Informative)

jridley (9305) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299635)

1080p is nowhere NEAR film grain quality. That's still only in the 2 megapixel range. When you start seeing video where each frame is in the 10-20 megapixel range, then you might be talkin'.

I held off on LaserDisc way before the DVD even began development, because I was certain that within a few years someone would come out with a format that put LaserDisc quality on something the size of a CD. That was a good decision. However, I'm actually pretty happy with DVD. Yeah, I can see artifacts on my 100" projector, but I don't have any problems ignoring them and just watching the movie.

I'll get an HD player at some point but it won't bother me in the least if it's 5 or 10 years from now. I probably won't bother until I can buy an HD-R drive for my computer for $50.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

Propaganda13 (312548) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299245)

I do think there are people willing to upgrade, but the format war holds some back.

DVD
You can buy a good player for under $100. Some even have HD upconversion for that price. You can buy a cheap DVD player for $15.
Everyone rents and new movies sell for $15.

HD-DVD $300 min for a player. $25-$35 for a movie.
Blu-Ray $450 min player, $25-$30 for a movie.
Combo player $1000

The investment cost is enough that people don't want to pick the wrong format. If they would have settled on one format, more people would be buying even with the higher price point.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (4, Informative)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299539)

I've noticed at all the rip you off outlets (Visions) HD-DVD movies tend to be more expensive then blurays ones for exactly the same movies. I wonder why? 300 was $29.95 cnd for blue ray but $39.95 for HD-DVD at visions electronics.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (4, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299557)

$100 does not get you a good upconverting player. For that you are in the $200+ range. If you rent more than buy, the cost of movies is the same. There is no significant reason not to go with a HD-DVD player if you rent.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299269)

If you can't tell the difference between DVD and HD-DVD/Blu-ray as far as quality goes and can qualify DVD as 'good enough' quality, then HDTV and this conversation are not for you.

Good day, sir.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

zakezuke (229119) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299329)

I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end, there can't be that many consumers out there who are planning to start upgrading their existing DVD collection to one of these formats. I have an HDTV and regular DVD's look just fine. I know these new formats offer better quality, but the difference and enhancements are not enough to warrant an upgrade. From VHS to DVD was worthwhile, this is just a stop gap measure. I personally don't plan to upgrade at all until something significantly better comes along. Maybe the next generation after this...
I for one am holding of from investing in HDTV. Don't get me wrong, I like HDTV esp. the fact that I don't need cable to get the local stations without static. I more than like the fact that I can get into a large 720p TV for under a grand. There simply isn't enough in the way of programing to really enjoy HD at present, and this whole format war doesn't help.

And let's face it, early adopters pay the most and get the least benefit except being able to say I got it first.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299497)

My cable company now offers 50 channels of HD. I never watch SD any more. DirectTV has a new bird in testing that will supposedly support 100 HDTV channels.

The excuse that there isn't enough HD programming is so last year.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299599)

My cable company now offers 50 channels of HD. I never watch SD any more. DirectTV has a new bird in testing that will supposedly support 100 HDTV channels.

The excuse that there isn't enough HD programming is so last year.


Want to know a secret? about 1/2 of your programming is non - HD on those channels. shhhh... don't tell the early adopters.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299385)

After 40, and the eyes start giving out, it all looks like VHS tapes.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299413)

I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end

Well, funny thing is, if this continues, neither will. The movie market is quite unlike the game console market. Exclusives for a format means consumers will buy either hybrids that play both formats, or nothing.

In a game console you're expected to buy 2-3 great games and maybe 7-8 average games, and play those for years. For a movie player, if 30% of your favorite movies aren't available to you never mind which HD format you pick... well then you pick the older universally compatible format.

Compatibility rules in everything, first and foremost.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (1)

CodyRazor (1108681) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299503)

i never understood why for a site thats news for nerds most people seen to be so adamantly against this new technology. Every article i see on hd is filled with people making the same comments about its only a bit better etc etc, the things joe consumer would say. Doesnt the fact that were nerds mean we want to upgrade? I know i want the best, even if it is slightly better, because i love technology. I just bought a second high end gpu. Sure i was getting 80fps in most games before but thats not the point. For nerds most people here seem to hold a similar approach to hd as my mother. I got a ps3 imported before release and the first time i watched casino royale i was amazed. It was genuinely exciting and the picture was outstanding, far bigger difference between vhs and dvd. Is it just hate for anything sony/microsoft/movie studios does that drives this? Its really disheartening to see nerds reject this clearly improved technology because were the early adopters and if we dont push new tech who will? We could still be here taking about how cassettes are an unneeded upgrade on records

Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299607)

Interesting thing I have noticed with newer DVD releases is that the transfers look absolutely horrible on my plasma. Older DVDs in my collection scale beautifully, not quite HD quality, but definitely better than that pixelated macro blocking mess that is the 300 DVD.

Are the studios degrading DVD quality on purpose to drive next-gen DVD player sales?

No more bets please... (1)

AskChopper (1077519) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299101)

"''Spider-Man 3'' will only be available in the Blu-ray DVD format when it is released by Sony Pictures, while people with Blu-ray players won't be able to enjoy the action-thriller ''The Bourne Ultimatum,'' which Universal Pictures will release only in HD DVD."

I hear a slow, solemn, lazy church bell ringing in the background.

Re:No more bets please... (1)

Xiaran (836924) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299185)

I suspect both Spider man 3 and The Bourne Ultimatum will also be available in easily downloadable bittorents that can be converted to any local format you desire :)

Microsoft 'bribed' the two into dropping Blueray (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299105)

I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (4, Interesting)

SyncNine (532248) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299121)

I don't think this was the best time for Paramount to jump ship on the Blu-ray line. While they _may_ have looked at the numbers involved, units sold, etc., all of that data was over the last year or so. What they didn't really consider was that a lot of non-videophile (aka., people who would buy a specific HD-DVD / Blu-ray player) purchasers were going to start purchasing PS3s...

With Sony's recent price drop, the sales of their console have increased. As far as consoles go, this isn't a tremendous jump -- they're still trailing behind Microsoft and Nintendo as far as sales. As far as HD-Movie players go, however, this is quite a jump. According to 'figures' and sources [kotaku.com] ., they are seeing up to a 135% increase in sales after their price drop. That's a lot of Blu-ray players on the market that weren't there a short time ago.

Personally, I'm pissed! I purchased a PS3 during the price drop and I'm ok with what Sony has to offer for the console and with what movies are presently out (though, admittedly, I'd like more on both fronts), but you'll notice I said 'ok', I didn't say I was a raving Sony fanboy. I think there could be more selection of movies and games -- and it saddens me that I will now not be able to own a 1080p copy of Transformers to watch on my 51" HDTV because some pockets were apparently lined. [deadlineho...ddaily.com]

I understand that I'm not the norm in the market -- a lot of people don't have HDTVs, and a lot of people that do don't have big-screened HDTVs, but even with that, I think that it's a big step backwards for Paramount to alienate my class of shopper.

Then again, I'm sure everyone who was alienated by the Betamax -> VHS move was saying the same thing then ...

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299305)

Fact is, I am in your same boat. I purchased a PS3 nearly right after they were released. Even at the higher price I paid it was a better deal than most HD-DVD players. I believe Paramount and DreamWorks are going to eat their words and regret the decision before it's all over. To me though it's not a big deal. While I do have an HDTV it is only 720p. So, if I want to buy Transformers, I will do so and watch it upscaled on my PS3. Because really, the difference between 720p and upscaled DVD is only just noticeable. Between upscaled DVD and 1080p is a different story though.

I imagine that I will go ahead and upgrade to 1080p, but only once 2 things have happened. One of the two formats wins, and HDTV 1080p TVs drop in price for models > 50" to somewhere around 1500-2000 dollars.

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (1)

Shabbs (11692) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299377)

Because really, the difference between 720p and upscaled DVD is only just noticeable.
Surely you jest. Either you have a 27" TV or your system is configured very poorly. The difference between a good up-convert and HD DVD/Blu-ray is quite significant, even on 720/768/788p systems.

Cheers.

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (2, Interesting)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299461)

Hey I didn't say it wasn't noticeable.. it's just not striking like 1080p. My PS3 does an excellent job of upscaling.

On another note... Holy cow. I just looked at 1080p projectors. I am NOT buying another TV. The Optoma HD80 1080p projector with a ceiling mount (I'd run the cables professional-quality myself) is my new goal. Run one HDMI cable, use a fully HDMI24 compliant HDMI switch for four sources, and you have yourself a hell of a system that 3 years ago would've cost $30,000 but today is under $3,000. This sounds like my next project.

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (2, Insightful)

Major Blud (789630) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299469)

Well, don't forget that MS has also just dropped the price of the Xbox HD-DVD add-on. I was thinking about getting one as soon as I got my Xbox, but dropping the price definitely persuaded me to do it. Now that another film publisher has announced their dedication to it, I'm even more inclined to fork out the dough..... However, the logical part of me is still telling me to hold out, which I think is what most people are waiting for. Although most of my video-phile friends have already made a purchase, I think the average consumer is waiting for a clear "winner" of the HD format war. Sony played a smart game by including Blu-Ray with the PS3, but I'm not sure how long they can hold out. I'm thinking that the other studios are seeing most of the benefits of the PS3, rather than Sony. They are still losing money on PS3's (as far as I know). I, for one, am really excited about this. The competition will only increase benefits for the consumer as far as choice and price is concerned. I wouldn't mind getting the 5 free HD-DVD/Blu-Ray deal one bit.....

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (1)

G Fab (1142219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299649)

Don't forget that you can get 5 free movies witht he XBOX ad-ona s well.

Oh, I see that you already know that. Oh well, I'll leave it up anyway to highlight the point. XBOXs are great deals right now. The online content is unparalleled, and this is the deal breaker for me.

But it's unfortunate that buying one rewards MS for lining pockets to further destroy a poorer competitor. This doesn't help the consumer at all. HD DVD clearly lost in the marketplace. Blu Ray movies just sound a lot better, and I'm glad that things were going this way. Microsoft is spending more money in backroom deals than it is spending making the next awesome technology.

As you say, Sony is having a hard time with the PS3, and if Bluray doesn't win, you can't understate just how screwed that company is. Sony took Microsoft on, head on, with Linux support and other obvious aspects of their system. And the arrogance that goes along with thinking they can beat a company as ruthless as Microsoft. I'd like to think they can survive, even thrive, by competing. That's going to be a tall order. I wouldn't be surprised to see more underhanded deals that don't benefit MS so much as they hurt Sony.

It's not necessary to pick sides, thank goodness.

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299473)

I believe they could of had a lot more movies out. It's not that hard to code up a simple menu and rescan the film. But games, games are always thin in the first year. Look at the guy beating the ps3 to death (i own both so it's a big meh for me.) The a list games are promised for later while the quick thrown together mini game collections are here and now and boring. Even the PS3's non ass kicking competitor was pretty thin the first years with rampant complaints of "this looks just like the xbox/ps2 version."

Re:I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (2, Insightful)

dagamer34 (1012833) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299629)

If the PS3 is what's driving the market, then Bluray is in trouble because a PS3 isn't going to be a cheap Bluray player anytime soon. If the price of entry to play Bluray discs stays at $500, then HD-DVD will win, end of story.

Money Talks (5, Informative)

JackSpratts (660957) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299139)

Blogger "Swanni" says the HD-DVD folks coughed up 100 mil to help Paramount reach the decision.

- js.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm [tvpredictions.com]

Microsoft coughed up the money (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299183)

See the stories on www.thedigitalbits.com

Re:Money Talks (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20299199)

Actually, your link says that he was called by a Sony PR firm which told him that their (Sony PR firm) "sources" that Paramount/Dreamworks were paid a hefty sum to go exclusive. Seems fishy. Sounds fishy. Probably is fishy (on both sides). Well, call me when they've resolved the squabble. Till then I don't care.

Interesting (0)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299143)

I has thought HD DVD was dead, in m home city in the UK there are only four shops selling "next gen" disc's. Virgin Megastore which only has a collection of Blue Ray films at the insane price of £25+, Anouther Virgin Megastore (yes my city centre has two) which has Blue Ray discs and a small bay of HDDVD discs (half the display of blueray) and the other two are Woowoths and Game both of which sell them because they sell PS3's. Afer nosing around those places as wellas Son,panasonic,comet,dixons and a audiophile shop I've only seen blueray players.

Since I now own a PS3 I might buy a Bluray film if its as cheap as a DVD but to be honest I can't see a difference, i is bugging my that Shrek the Third, Transformers and Bourne Ultimatium are alll goingto be HDDVD only they were the only three films I've liked all year.

The proofread Interesting (0)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299163)

I had thought HD DVD was dead, in m home city in the UK there are only four shops selling "next gen" disc's. Virgin Megastore which only has a collection of Blue Ray films at the insane price of £25+, Anouther Virgin Megastore (yes my city centre has two) which has Blue Ray discs and a small bay of HDDVD discs (half the display of blueray) and the other two are Woowoths and Game both of which sell them because they sell PS3's. After nosing around those places as well as Son,panasonic,comet,dixons and a audiophile shop I've only seen blueray players. Since I now own a PS3 I might buy a Bluray film if its as cheap as a DVD but to be honest I can't see a difference, it is annoying that Shrek the Third, Transformers and Bourne Ultimatum are all going to be HDDVD as they were the only three films I've liked all year.

Why?! (0, Troll)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299157)

Too much porn on Blu-ray now?

Re:Why?! (2, Funny)

redneckHippe (744945) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299349)

There's no such thing as "too much porn". Now maybe "too much pr0n"

Re:Why?! (1)

Tofuik (1145165) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299553)

I think HD DVD will win out just because Porn chose it.

Hey, Toshiba! (3, Funny)

Mr. Roadkill (731328) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299187)

The Victor Company of Japan called.

They said they want their market disruption techniques back.

That is kinda strange (1)

rastoboy29 (807168) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299209)

that they would choose HD-DVD, when Blu-Ray's the one that hasn't been totally pwned, yet.

But yeah, doesn't matter to me, I'll just download for free until they make the price more convenient than dealing with the piratebay.  Not that hard to do, really.  Three or four bucks?  I'd go for that, every time.

All day long.

Baby pay twice *sings* (4, Insightful)

aliquis (678370) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299293)

I guess in the end we will end up with both formats, just like with DVD+ and -.

Great, paying for two licenses always rule! Because one open one wouldn't do!

What was chinas next-gen format called now again? I would assume their players will be cheap :)

Sure, keep changing things, that will win loyalty. (4, Insightful)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299295)

(That's irony).

Consumers won't buy into either format until they see some signs of stability.

As long as it's on-again, off-again, now-you-see-it, now-you-don't, consumers will just hold off.

Once a company declares it will support either format... or both... it should stick with whatever they've announced. Fickle commitments that change every six months just hurt both formats.

As with the stock market, what investors hate is uncertainty.

It is nowhere near over yet. (2, Insightful)

Secrity (742221) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299361)

Neither format has caught on at all, and the only players that are in homes in any sort of numbers are the PS3. I think that most people who have a PS3 bought it as a gaming machine and don't care that it can play any sort of DVD. Any format decision made by any studio is subject to change without notice; if Blu-Ray becomes dominant I am sure that Paramount will make Blu-Ray disks. Other than all of the major studios going to only one format, the only significant format change by a studio would be if Sony started to sell their movies in HD-DVD.

It could be that this is not a Beta / VHS format war, it be a Laserdisc flop and neither of the new formats will catch on; so far, it does not appear that people see a compelling reason to buy either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players and disks.

Any hopes of having this it legal . . . (2, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299379)

to use on Linux, after having paid for the appropriate hardware? Or are we required to pay for the hardware + Windows + software + disk?

Are we there yet? (3, Insightful)

TrumpetPower! (190615) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299417)

It seems to me that a really big reason why neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD are likely to catch on is the simple fact that sneakernet in general is going the way of the buggy whip.

Nor is it that regular DVDs are “good enough,” as some have suggested, but rather that we’re already moving beyond the station wagon filled with tapes, to simple high-bandwidth networks.

It won’t be Blu-Ray that kills HD-DVD, or vice-versa, or even regular DVDs. It’ll be YouTube, iTunes, Bittorrent, and garden variety video-on-demand from your local telco monopoly. Sure, there’re plenty of shortcomings with all of those today, from quality to DRM to “ownership” to the time it takes to acquire a movie. But neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD intrinsically offer anything better over the online equivalents for those with bandwidth.

Cheers,

b&

Re:Are we there yet? (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299507)

Borat I could watch in any format but youtube version of 300 would entirely defeat the point of the movies. I have a 3.0 mbit connection that I often max but I won't wait for the 3-6 gig download of the movies. Maybe if 60 mbit becomes the standard it'd be an idea but having worked at a telco I can say thats not in scope for the foreseeable future. Spectacles demand visual quality. That why my bank is $1799 lighter for a 42" LCD HDTV and $700 dollars lighter from a PS3.

The people who want Blu-Ray for storage purposes.. (1)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299429)

Are missing out.

Last I checked, physical disks costs $100 for 500GB in a USB enclosure. That's faster than Blu-Ray can write, cheaper, and portable. Most games and media will fit onto an HD-DVD EASILY. If you're backing up to Blu-Ray discs then I think you silly. Even USB sticks can hold 4GB on them, and the next generation will 'up' that even higher. Again, faster writes, and cheaper pricing.

Personally, I want HD-DVD to win the 'format' war, because in reality, it's going to be the LAST physical format. The 'next' generation is going to be streaming media entirely. Look at how long it took for people to move from VHS to DVD -- oh wait, they still haven't! The same is true for a physical format like HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I just want what will be cheaper in the long run. I can go to WalMart now and pick up a DVD for $5. Do you think I will ever be able to pick up a $5 Blu-Ray disc? Won't happen. Sony has a bad history in terms of media and closed formats, and BR will be no exception. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce, and that means as factories convert, it will be even MORE cheap. And the plus is that a lot of HD-DVDs are dual sided, one side being the HD content, the other being a regular DVD.

This 'war' is just idiotic -- just choose the cheaper format and move on. Or do you want to get higher pricing on your media, so that when the streaming content comes along and costs virtually NOTHING, that you are arguing it down from a higher price?

It's going to be harder to say "Hey, you were paying $30 for that BR disc, now you can pay $20 for streaming media."

Or would you rather say "Hey, you were paying $15 for that HD-DVD, now you can pay $10 for streaming content."

I know which one I'd pick.

Re:The people who want Blu-Ray for storage purpose (1)

Yehooti (816574) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299627)

I call baloney because of the archival quality I've found with CD's. We were promised decades and I've not seen anything like that. My tapes were worse, but continuing to stuff files over to new HD's has been the answer for me. We depend on HD's to fail, so we compensate. We were not alerted to the short life of CD's, and DVD's that we burn. I have no reason to believe that the new HD or Blu-Ray disks will be any better for the long term.

The funny thing is... (1)

Bullfish (858648) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299459)

now that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the studios pretty much split between them, they guarantee that the best selling players are going to be the dual format players. If you consider that most people don't have an HDTV, by the time they do such players will be plentiful. Who wouldn't buy one under those conditions? Executives at Paramount and other studios can look forward to many bidding wars for exclusives on the releases of blockbusters. All they have to do is not sell total studio commitment to a format and just do it piecemeal via movie.

Re:The funny thing is... (1)

Scyber (539694) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299561)

Samsung is supposed to be coming out with a dual format player this fall. Based on European prices it should be around 700 US. I assume LG will also be coming out with their next gen dual format player soon at a lower price point then their previous player. I also believe the dual format players will win this warn.

The only way to win is not to play (2, Interesting)

vanyel (28049) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299493)

Just reiterates my resolve that I'll buy a player when there's a decent dual-format player.

I'm backing whoever defeats DRM (2, Interesting)

Proudrooster (580120) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299505)

I am backing whoever defeats DRM so I can connect an HDMI cable to my MythTV box and record.watch Hi-Def content. Until that happens I will record analog only and get the High-Def content through other channels.

irrelevant... (1)

aapold (753705) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299509)

I mean, the disc, any format, is obsolete, and this just helps push downloading as the primary format. HD-DVDs are cheaper to manufacture? Downloads have no manufacturing cost.

Everything else aside, I realized I don't buy DVDs to watch them again. How many times can you watch one thing? I buy stuff when I like it enough that I want to hand to other people I think should watch it. And on occasion to kind of show support for something like a show that was cancelled.. but that's not that common. 99% of the time they just sit there, taking up space.

Frankly, I hope they both die. (1)

Starker_Kull (896770) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299527)

Preferably, in a long, extremely expensive way. Then, maybe, a standard without all the fancy DRM nonsense laced into it that actually gives purchasers a benefit might come out.

While I'm dreaming, maybe Microsoft will adopt the Linux kernel and open source its next OS as well.

Weaker DRM in HD-DVD (3, Interesting)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299653)

HD-DVD has a weaker DRM system since it doesn't have the BD+ capabilities of BluRay. Hey, that's a plus for the (worse) standard.

As for the rumor posited above in another post that Microsoft paid a combined $150M to these two studios to induce a switch, the answer is obvious. Microsoft sells an HD-DVD player add-on for XBox 360, and likely hopes to see game titles released in the future utilizing it. It has totally thrown in with the (worse) HD-DVD system, and can't change horses now since Sony owns BluRay. Microsoft has a huge stake in seeing HD-DVD win.

Adobe went with Blu-Ray (1)

Skapare (16644) | more than 7 years ago | (#20299661)

Adobe went with Blu-Ray as the only high definition recordable disk supported by their Adobe® Premiere® Pro CS3 editing suite. You can see the list of what works here [adobe.com] .

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