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Sony to Add TV Tuner, DVR to PS3

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the hardware-hackers-get-to-work dept.

PlayStation (Games) 255

pjhenley writes "Sony has announced that they will add digital TV and DVR capabilities to the PS3 in Europe. TV can also be watched on a PSP using 'remote play' over WiFi or via downloaded recordings. 'The new box will feature two 1080p tuners, which utilize the European Digital Video Broadcasting system (DVB-T) -- which should dash any US hopes for the time being. The system will allow you to store recorded broadcasts on your PS3 drive, and also transcode and transfer the saved files to your PSP.'"

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Before anyone starts to complain (4, Insightful)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#20342937)

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343119)

I'm sorry that you pay so much for it.

Honestly, can you imagine the DRM that'll be on that thing, given the manufacturer?

They should offer it at a reduced rate compared to the base model, just because of the hassle.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (2, Interesting)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343201)

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3
Before you start complaining about the US price vs the European prices, always remember to remove the VAT from the European prices. Why can't Europeans bother to remember such a simple thing? List prices in the US do not include tax.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343317)

i dont know about the US, but in europe the VAT isnt 50% (comparing the $599 and up to $900 prices). the $700 would be closer, since VAT here (holland) is 19%, which would be close to the 17% the $700 price represents

but as for US VATs, what are normal VAT rates? wikipedia suggest between 0-9.75%, typically 8.5%

which still ends up being less then half the VAT of what we pay here, so we still get screwed

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (1, Insightful)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343405)

but as for US VATs, what are normal VAT rates? wikipedia suggest between 0-9.75%, typically 8.5%
We do not have VAT in the US. We have a sales tax, which is different. Merchants selling to other merchants items (or components like hard drives for inclusion in a computer box the second merchant sells) for resale are not subjected to sales tax. Sales tax isn't applied until it gets to the consumer. VAT is applied at each exchange.

which still ends up being less then half the VAT of what we pay here, so we still get screwed
Don't blame Sony or anyone else on that, blame it on the policies of the silly countries you live in. This is why the VAT needs to be removed before you do any such compare. It removes some of the silliness of the countries. (But doesn't remove duty fees, shipping fees, custom fees, or other fees a company might have to pay to get the product into the country first...)

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (3, Informative)

iapetus (24050) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343919)

Sales tax isn't applied until it gets to the consumer. VAT is applied at each exchange.

But can be claimed back by VAT registered companies, so it all works out the same in the end.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (2, Informative)

Calinous (985536) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343943)

VAT is a value ADDED tax - it is applied at each step, but only on the Added Value. If I buy hard drives for $100 a piece (including VAT), and sell them for $150 a piece, I pay VAT to the one from where I bought them (assume 19% VAT, I pay about $100 * 0.19/1.19 = $16), and the one who bought them from me pays $150 * 0.19/1.19 as VAT ($24). Now, the VAT I get ($24) is returned to the original seller ($16 of the $24), and the rest ($8) is the Value Added Tax I pay in the end to the state.

      Now, some times ago, before the VAT was applied, there was a Tax on Goods Distribution which was applied on every exchange - it was in the 3% range, but it added quickly from original manufacturer to the consumer.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (2, Informative)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343391)

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3
Before you start complaining about the US price vs the European prices, always remember to remove the VAT from the European prices. Why can't Europeans bother to remember such a simple thing? List prices in the US do not include tax.

Fair enough, but taking the highest state sales tax [taxadmin.org] and the price of PS3 [ebgames.com] we top out at $535 USD max. This is still much cheaper than what you get in Europe.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343643)

Probably because it's very easy in the U.S. to buy a PS3 without paying sales tax - just order from a retailer outside your state. You might even get free shipping. Oh sure, you're suppose to pay the sales tax yourself, but no one does that.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343347)

Actually we don't. That's why I bought a Wii :p

What's this about!!! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20342939)

We're the US, the greatest country on Earth!

Why aren't we getting it first?

Re:What's this about!!! (1, Interesting)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343695)

I believe the number of Sony Fanboys in the US is higher than that in any other country. Our dumb consumers buy that crap even when it doesn't work.

But wouldn't it be funny if Sony's announcement of a better PS3 on the way gets people to stop buying them?

On a semi-related note, I've talked with 3 middle-aged people who are trying to find Wiis for themselves and can't, while I see Best Buy has 20 PS3s in stock. Good work, Sony.

Re:What's this about!!! (2, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344253)

Simple. Because of CableCard not really being a standard.
Sony doesn't want to have another sales disappointment in the US. People will just get their DVR from there CATV if they want one that will just work however feature limited it may be. For those that want more features and are willing to do the work to get it working then TiVO will be the product of choice.
Too bad really. This combined with a PSP is pretty cool. You could watch TV anywhere in your home even out in your garden/backyard and tanscode it for your PSP.

I keep thinking that Microsoft is working with the cable companies to bring the same functionality to the 360/Zune.

I gotta say (5, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20342985)

I love the PS3 for all of it's capabilities (especially since I also have a PSP) I think it's a very well built, very well designed machine that has a lot of potential. It's non-gaming feature list is extensive and USEFUL.

So why do I still very much prefer my 360 over my PS3?

Games. The fucking games.

Come on Sony. We all know that it's a powerful beast of a machine, we know it can do a lot of cool shit...but how about investing in some more quality GAMES? My 360 gets FAR more playtime than my PS3...why?

BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO PLAY, SONY.

Re:I gotta say (5, Informative)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343069)

Yes, but we're just coming into the first real release season for the PS3. Over the next year that will change. People conveniently forget just how long the 360 has already been out for, and that many xBox games were released on the 360 instead of the xbox. Sony has NEVER had a lot of games out in the first year for a new console. Those that know this know that waiting another 6 months to a year will result in likely a cheaper console purchase, and more game options...and in the meantime, thoroughly enjoying the last and best games to be released on the PS2. (End of console lifecycle games are traditionally the best on sony consoles)

Now, if there aren't lots of quality games to choose from by this time next year, there will be problems without a doubt.

Re:I gotta say (5, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343187)

See, that's just the thing though....look at what is coming to 360 or 360/PC in the next year (I'm including BioShock in that which, by the way, is one of the best games ever made)

Now look at what is coming to the PS3 in the next year.

I gotta say, just looking at what is on the schedule to be released in the next year, unless something unannounced comes out, it appears my 360 will continue to be putting in overtime while my PS3 takes vacations for months at a time...

Re:I gotta say (-1, Troll)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343473)

For the most part, the 360 just has a big list of shooters in the lineup. Without a doubt, if that's your bag, the 360 is your kit and will probably remain so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying either is better. Actually personally, I have neither a 360 or a PS3...my PS2 is keeping me plenty occupied still. But I do expect that in a year or so there will be enough games that I want and assuming Blu-Ray is still looking to be dominant at that time, I'll likely get a PS3. But I have no interest in a 360 personally no matter what happens. My PC easily satisfies my gaming needs for shooters.

I find it funny the number of people that are happy with their 360, but keep complaining about the PS3...if the 360 does it for you, enjoy and don't worry about what the PS3 may or may not have.

Re:I gotta say (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343521)

I do worry about what the PS3 has for a couple reasons...for starters, I spent 600 bucks on the damn thing. I KNEW when I bought it that there wasn't much for it, but I figured that after the first year or so would be when the real good stuff would start coming out...BZZT wrong.

Another reason why is because I really do like the system. I like the graphics, I like the "feel" of it, I overall enjoy the system. I just don't have much in the way of games that I can enjoy it with.

Re:I gotta say (1)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343589)

Right, gotcha.

Yep, certainly do hope that this time next year there are lots of worthwhile games for the PS3. I do have hope as Sony has never failed on that in the past...alas, there is a first time for everything...

Re:I gotta say (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343655)

Ironically, when it comes to last generation it boiled down like this...

There were MORE games on PS2 that I enjoyed and considered games every gamer should play, however my FAVOURITE games from last-gen were for the most part on Xbox. In addition, the Gamecube had some FANTASTIC games on it as well, but didn't have the same amount of quality or same number of titles that got me excited as either teh box or the ps2.

I think the reason why the PS3 is bothering me so much...I LOVE having a wide swath of games spread over multiple systems...every system has a very different "feel" to it, and I like experiencing a myriad of games on a myriad of consoles....

Unfortunately, with the exception of so few games I could count them on one hand, the 360 (for me anyway) is "winning" this generation hands down...I would say around 90% of the games that have come out for the 7th generation systems that I love have been on the 360...that bothers me that my enjoyment has been confined to that extent on just one system...

Re:I gotta say (2, Insightful)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343807)

"Unfortunately, with the exception of so few games I could count them on one hand, the 360 (for me anyway) is "winning" this generation hands down..."

The 360 has been out over a year longer than the Wii and yet the Wii has passed it in console sales. The first party games Nintendo is offering for the Wii (and the ones about to come out this holiday season) are their BIG games. Mario Kart, Metroid, Mario Galaxy.. Nintendo's going to start pulling away and it's not just because of their lower price or the games they're offering. It's because Sony dropped the ball and had that "They'll buy it even if has no games" attitude. And because both Sony and Microsoft had the "People want a media center first and a gaming console second" attitude. Nintendo had the "People want to play fun games and don't want to have to take out a loan to do so" attitude and they're winning.

The only big exclusive title the 360 can offer is Halo, which isn't even a very good shooter. The PS3 has a few exclusives but from what I've heard from even the big Sony fanboys is that they're only "OK"

Re:I gotta say (0, Troll)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343909)

Did you actually READ my post, or did you just see the word "winning" and assume I meant which system was selling the most? By "winning", I simply meant that most of the games this generation I love have been on the 360. Why the fuck would I care which system sells more?

And don't give me that exclusivity crap, either. I don't care what system a game is released for.

Re:I gotta say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343831)

name one of those games that isn't an fps or a driving game.
(Oblivion is an fps)

Re:I gotta say (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343871)

Oblivion is an FPS?

I'm sorry...that statement alone makes me not want to even respond to your question any further.

Re:I gotta say (0, Flamebait)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344027)

Actually, I will respond.

Crackdown, DOA4, Dead Rising, Kameo, GoW, Saints Row, Tenchu Z, Viva Pinata...

Not to mention the wide variety of Xbox Live Arcade games.

Re:I gotta say (2, Informative)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344013)

Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, LittleBigPlanet, Killzone, Ratchet and Clank, and Haze. That's a variety of games, other than just shooters that are coming in the next year. Other than that, most of the stuff that is highly anticipated is coming out on BOTH systems (COD4, Burnout, Need for Speed), plus don't forget that Final Fantasy is huge for the Playstation.

Re:I gotta say (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344095)

For me, anticipated 360 exclusives coming out in the next year or so:

Ace Combat 6, Beautiful Katamari, Fable 2, GoW 2, Kengo: Legend of the 9, Mass Effect, Too Human, Viva Pinata: Party Animals....

Re:I gotta say (3, Insightful)

*weasel (174362) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343475)

Saying things might change in the future just doesn't matter. If it -does- turn around, it can be re-evaluated whenever that -actually- happens.

And odds are by the PS3 makes sense, it'll be cheaper to have bought a 360 or wii today and a PS3 then, rather than buy a PS3 today and twiddle your thumbs in the interim. Gamers like games. They don't gain anything by denying themselves games in some odd form of platform loyalty.

That whole 'fan' thing is just silly.
It used to be XBox fans defending claims that their console has a worse selection of games with lines like:
'but it's more powerful!'
'b-b-but A/V quality'
'its doing better than the PS2 did at the same point in its release!'
and
'just wait until A and B killer titles release'

And now it's almost perfectly reversed.
Proving once again that people who talk about platforms and potential rather than games are only useful as comic relief.

Re:I gotta say (1)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343639)

Never said any of that. Wouldn't suggest anyone should buy a PS3 yet actually. I'm just stating historical trends that show that by this time next year, the PS3 should be a decent price with a nice library of quality games available.

If history repeats itself, the PS3 will be a success, and I'll likely buy one then. If it doesn't...then it doesn't. But anyone that already bought a PS3 and is ticked or surprised that there aren't a ton of games yet really shouldn't be surprised.

Heck, what was there for killer games for the PS2 during the first year? GTA 3 sold that system basically, but it was quite a while after before there were many other must have games available. Now of course, there is a huge PS2 library.

So here's hoping history repeats itself, and if not...no biggie.

Re:I gotta say (2, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344067)

I got my PS3 at the EU launch and I really haven't had problems finding things to do with it. PS3 retail games might have been slow coming but there are some decent titles to play and the drought is basically over. Aside from that it can play PS2 titles, PSN titles (Super Stardust HD is awesome), DVDs, Blu Ray, ripped movies etc. so I've used it for that as well as Linux. Most mornings my 2 year old kid wants to see a DVD so I've ripped a pile for him to pick from. I can see that if someone only used it for PS3 titles they're going to get bored but there is plenty of stuff to be doing otherwise to justify its existence.

Re:I gotta say (1)

Double Entendre (1123719) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343413)

I had the exact same reaction when I first this story - why is there so much focus on all the non-gaming features? But then I realized it could be a matter of strategy and control.

In terms of the control, I have often wondered just how much influence the actual console companies can exert over game development houses. They can certainly make it attractive, negotiate exclusivity deals, make it easier to develop for, and profitable to do so, but without owning those companies themselves they'll always just be third-party suppliers.

Which leads me to my main point - perhaps this is part of a larger overall plan to have an extensive feature set ready to go by the time the best games are all available. If I remember correctly, the PS2 didn't really start steam-rolling until all the blockbuster titles arrived on the scene, which took a while. But by that time they were ready. So from that perspective, one could argue that they are doing everything they can to continue to improve the hardware while the developers are getting those titles out the door.

In the next year, we could see the PS3 hit its stride when the price has dropped, the library has hit critical mass, and the feature set is far more extensive than any of its competitors.

Re:I gotta say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343537)

Tsk Tsk have more patience. The PS3 is due for a major break through this 4th quarter and the first quarter of 2008. A lot of new and FUN games are coming out. Look out for metal gear solid/ratchet and clank/final fantasy/ madden is already a hit/ virtua fighter/ and mercenaries 2 just to name a few heavy hitters for the platform.

The reasoning (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20342987)

Being a half-assed blu-ray player is not enough to convince people to buy a PS3 so now they're trying to make it a half-assed Tivo too.

Re:The reasoning (2, Informative)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343225)

There aren't actually a lot of good PVRs available in Europe. A half-assed Tivo would probably make it one of the best.

It will be crippled (2, Insightful)

La Gris (531858) | more than 7 years ago | (#20342993)

Be sure it will be crippled so channels not willing to let your record or transmit via network will be blocked for that.

I just ordered a DreamBox DM7025 (waiting for it in 2 to 3 weeks) with two DVB-S (satellite) tuners. This one run with VDR and Linux. It can't do HD video but, well there are so few or interrestings ones in here...
And the DreamBox is will not block anything. If I can view a channel, I can record and broadcast it to my LAN via standard protocols and codecs to use with VideoLan.

Just another stab to jumpstart sales. (-1, Flamebait)

fimbulvetr (598306) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343001)

The july numbers came in and showed a week for week increase, but still behind everything. What's ahead? No more discounted PS3s and back to the 599 one. It's funny that 8 or so years ago we would have all had a laugh along the lines of "Haha, even Microsoft could put out a better product than that!" and, well, it happened.

almost worth the price (1, Redundant)

brenddie (897982) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343009)

A couple more features like this one and it will be worth to pay $500.

Re:almost worth the price (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343697)

Umm... you didn't think the dual-1080p tuners would magically grow out of your PS3 do you? It will be an add-on, knowing Sony an expensive one at that. Very impressive all the same though, but you gotta wonder how much 1080p programming you'll fit on the PS3 HDD. I'd sure want to hook up a 500GB external or so.

Re:almost worth the price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343905)

I for one welcome our magically appearing dual 1080p extreme overlords.

Blame it on comcast... (2, Insightful)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343015)

They dash any hopes of this happening :(

CableCard addons could have worked but comcast would have to certify the whole PS3 video recording "chain" and that would take so long the product would never reach the consumer in time for it to make a difference.

PS3 or not, i wish more devices could have DVR functionality. I want consumer cablecard in my MediaCenter/360 combination as well but that won't happen unless i re-buy my media center and bullocks to that! I also don't want Comcast flagging my content either.

OTA FTW

I swear (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343017)

Sony: if you add PVR capabilities to your US models, I will buy the PS3. I bet others who have been wavering will as well. A lot of others.

I love the PS3. It is an awesome piece of hardware. It pushes the envelope. It is driving progress in parallel software architecture and creation. Some good games are presently available, and I feel certain that the next generation of coolness will be created for the PS3--something truly wicked this way comes.

However, a game machine is not enough to warrant the price. I have been waiting for all the other promised applications: music, PVR, etc. Just the PVR alone would warrant my purchase, with the games being frosting on the cake.

Re:I swear (1, Insightful)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343249)

Sony: if you add PVR capabilities to your US models, I will buy the PS3.
That's a flat-out lie and you know it.

Even if Sony did add this to the US models, you'd have some other silly reason for not purchasing the PS3. You have no intention of buying a PS3, no matter what Sony does.

Re:I swear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343721)

Sony: if you add PVR capabilities to your US models, I will buy the PS3.
That's a flat-out lie and you know it.
It's a good thing all ACs are really linked to one big collective mind and none of them would ever see an increase of value for the same outlay of cash as a good thing.

Re:I swear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343403)

add PVR capabilities to your US models
Should that be ATSC, some (which) type of sattelite service, or a non-working cable-card?

The PS3 what's that? (1, Insightful)

ironwill96 (736883) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343043)

Oh, right, that new Blu-Ray player / DVR / DVD Player that Sony came out with. I heard that they are thinking of even adding some functionality to it to play games eventually!

All jesting aside (yes the 360 does many functions too), does anyone else wonder if the console makers have strayed to far from the core purposes of the consoles themselves - to provide gaming entertainment? One of the big draws that I always saw for consoles was the idea that it was a cheaper device that you knew would work with every game you purchased, compared to the computer that, while more powerful, needed to be upgraded to keep it top of the line and often has compatibility issues with games due to the massive amount of variety in the hardware present in computers. This draw seems to have lessened in recent years though since the new consoles are coming out on faster and faster release cycles (with the new advent of releasing 'better' versions of the same console during the console's release cycle - see the 360 elite as an example of this), and also are costing more and more money so saying you can't get a decent computer to play the games on for the same price is becoming less of a reality.

For me, I want my console to play lots of games and i'm also ok with basic DVD player functionality if the console is sharing that ability due to utilizing similar media for the games. But adding all of these other extras while nice, forces me to pay for something that I may not want. I want to play games, not have an inferior (in almost every case) HD/Blu-Ray player or DVR. The stand-alone products are almost always going to include more features, be more up to date to the current, evolving industry standards, and also let you purchase it only if you want it!

The bundling of un-asked for features needs to be stopped - at least if you do this make it an optional add-on attached to an expansion port of some sort so those of us who don't want it don't pay for it (like the HD-DVD add-on for the 360).

Re:The PS3 what's that? (1)

faloi (738831) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343273)

does anyone else wonder if the console makers have strayed to far from the core purposes of the consoles themselves - to provide gaming entertainment?

One would think they'd only have to look at the Wii to figure out it really is still about the games. The Wii is old hardware, doesn't do anything very special, has some new controller mechanisms and is great fun to play...for many different groups of people (including non-gamers).

I'm tempted to get a 360, because it's got some cool games that I'd like to play. There's nothing compelling to me about getting a Playstation 3, and I've owned both earlier Playstations.

Re:The PS3 what's that? (1)

robizzle (975423) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343349)

Microsoft has said that one of the goals of the 360 was to help Microsoft get into the consumer's family room. And, it makes sense when you are a company with 60,000 programmers in Redmond alone. Games will always be the primary concern for both Sony and Microsoft but you can only put so many developers on one aspect for so long before it becomes over saturated. So we start to see all these other technologies arise.

For Microsoft, each technology synergies with other Microsoft technologies (the ability to stream from your Windows PVR makes Media Center more desirable, XNA makes programmers that develop for the 360 also have a very easy time delivering the same code to PC and visa versa.) However, for Sony it seems like each of these new technologies is just another effort to increase console sales.

Re:The PS3 what's that? (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343353)

Consoles costing a lot of money and doing everything but games? I've not seen that really. Then again, people say I spend too much time playing with my Wii...

Re:The PS3 what's that? (0)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343525)

All jesting aside (yes the 360 does many functions too), does anyone else wonder if the console makers have strayed to far from the core purposes of the consoles themselves - to provide gaming entertainment?

Do you have any evidence that suggests consoles are less capable at playing games from providing these other features? Personally I think the fact that the PS3 is a audio / picture / movie / DVD / blu ray player, a web browser in addition to being a kickass consoles is a wonderful thing. It's acknowledgement that that box sitting plugged into your TV can be doing other stuff when it's not playing games. That isn't a bad thing, especially considering the price of it.

Even the Wii with its diminished capabilities still offers picture & movie clip playback and web browsing amongst its channels.

Re:The PS3 what's that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20344079)

have you ever used that stuff ?

Re:The PS3 what's that? (1)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343703)

Okay, you're either trolling or being a moron. Let's take a quick look at your argument.

draw seems to have lessened in recent years though since the new consoles are coming out on faster and faster release cycles (with the new advent of releasing 'better' versions of the same console during the console's release cycle - see the 360 elite as an example of this),

Actually, developers have complained that the multiple SKUs on the 360 have caused them to always default to the lesser SKU - they can't count on having a hard drive. See Oblivion for example - it actually got to the point where you were required to have the hard drive. Multiple SKUs might be nice if they're just upgrading the disk size or adding a non-necessary feature, but what about adding 1080p output to the 360? Who's going to support it if just a small percentage of the install base actually has that feature? I think a constant hardware base is probably the best bet, while improving hardware manufacturing will help lower costs.

Oh, and faster release cycles? I think that's basically Microsoft that has that problem, and even then it's only been one generation change. They entered the game late last generation and early this time around. The PS2 has been out for 7 years already, and they've committed to the PS3 for at least as long, if not longer. [xbitlabs.com] I'm not sure how long the Wii will last, but the gamecube has been around 5 years...that's not a short lifetime at all, considering that I tend to have to upgrade my computer every 3 years or so to keep up with the latest in computer game technology.

want to play games, not have an inferior (in almost every case) HD/Blu-Ray player or DVR.

Inferior Bluray player? Just about every review of the PS3 movie playback has said it's the best BluRay player on the market - and sales suggest that consumers agree. I've actually thrown out my DVD player in favor of using just one device - the PS3 - for all my entertainment needs. Hell, I don't even have to load my music onto the PS3 at this point, I just stream it from my NAS using mediatomb on Linux. Add in the remote play via the PSP and I don't have to take my music on the road either, I can access it from any WAP.

Sony is taking a big hit because they supposedly don't have many great games out (I have 8 that I swap out regularly, and I haven't touched Resistance in 6 months). The only people complaining are the ones who own two or three consoles, and why you'd want to buy both the 360 and the PS3 and then complain about price and game availability is beyond me.

Re:The PS3 what's that? (2, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344021)

Inferior Bluray player? Just about every review of the PS3 movie playback has said it's the best BluRay player on the market
When the PS2 came out, every review I read said that DVD playback was inferior to even cheap stand-alone players (cheap being a relative term at this point). I suspect that a lot of criticisms of the PS3's BD playback come from taking this single data point and extrapolating to the latest generation.

Re:The PS3 what's that? (1)

Cadallin (863437) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344033)

All jesting aside (yes the 360 does many functions too), does anyone else wonder if the console makers have strayed to far from the core purposes of the consoles themselves - to provide gaming entertainment?

Yes. Which is why Nintendo is kicking ass and taking names in the marketplace, while making more profits at it than either of their competitors ever have.

So what is the PS3 again? (4, Interesting)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343067)

We keep hearing Sony about how the PS3 is the best game system, but so far the only arguments we hear are that it's a Blu-Ray movie player, a Linux computer and now it's also a PVR. Mind you, if the american PS3 had a PVR to begin with, maybe it wouldn't seem too expensive.

Even as a non-Sony fanboy (I'm a Nintendo fanboy), I do wish Blu-Ray wins against HD-DVD, if only because this isn't a Sony-only attempt at pushing their own crap (Memory Stick, miniDisc, ATRAC, etc) but it's even better than HD-DVD in capacity (especially future potential capacity).

And next week... (2, Funny)

downix (84795) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343089)

Sony just keeps addng feature after feature. What's next, a coffee brewer to allow you to keep playing without getting up for your caffine fix?

Re:And next week... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343461)

Dark Helmet: What's that bubbling noise coming from the PS3?
Colonel Sandurz: We call it... Mr. Coffee, sir! Would you like some?
Dark Helmet: Of course I do! I always like to drink Coffee when I play PS3!

Re:And next week... (3, Funny)

superstick58 (809423) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344127)

I think they need to add the Sony CD so that high quality sound and video can be played on the console. Then they can add the PS32X to increase the processing power. Then they can announce that game development for both accessories will halt in about a year after the release and you will be stuck for decades with a monster created of multiple esoteric parts and expansions that completely hide the original machine.

I'm going to go play some games on my Sega Genesis/32X/CD. Ah the simple days when a console was a console.

Why 1080p? (1)

clonmult (586283) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343093)

Its a "nice to have" feature for sure, but even the quality of the broadcast image doesn't even slightly justify them putting 1080p in there.

Re:Why 1080p? (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344243)

Because DVB-T can transmit 1080p and the PS3 can output 1080p?

US doesn't have real standard yet? (3, Interesting)

amigabill (146897) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343131)

While we've heard a lot about cablecards and cablecard2's and mcards, the Tivo-HD compatibility problems show that we in the USA don't have a good standard yet. It works in some places but not in others. Would Sony face the same problem? Are they just avoiding this fiasco until there's a better guarantee that their tuners will actually work for all buyers in America? How is it that Europe gets better defined standards to work with (GSM, DVB) to ensure compatibility while we in America are rolling the dice with cablecards without knowing if we have the switched video stuff or not that might prevent my cablecard device from working? Or that vastly reduces choice in what phones I can use on my cellphone network?

Re:US doesn't have real standard yet? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343547)

Don't worry, there is no agreed standard for HD broadcasting over the air in the UK yet, either. Much of the rest of Europe has decided on DVB-T, but over here we can't do that for fear of offending Rupert Murdoch, who is currently raking in as a monopoly supplier of HD broadcasting.

Right now, this is going to be a £200 twin-tuner PVR that only does standard-def. And you can buy those, standalone, with much larger hard-drives for that price without having to stop playing games to use it.

Completely off topic but... (1)

Yusaku Godai (546058) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343147)

...is anyone having trouble with GMail this morning? It just keeps timing out (at least, over https which I have to use at work). I'd ask one of my friends, but they're all on Google Talk, heheh.

Anyways, in order to make this post slight ON topic:

Before anyone starts bitching about how stupid it is to add PVR functionality to what is supposedly a game system, just remember the PSX (not the be confused with the original PlayStation). It was a PS2/PVR released in Japan a few years ago that sold surprisingly well, in spite of being in the range of $600-$800. Now, why they're releasing this in Europe but not Japan I'm not sure, but I'm sure they've done their research and recognized the existence of a market.

I for one would rather keep my PVR separate from my game console. But on the other hand, I've been planning to build a MythTV box for a while, and it will also have MAME on it, so maybe it's not such a far-fetched idea for some people.

One more reason... (1)

alexhs (877055) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343183)

... for MS to undermine Blue-Ray adoption...

Look at my precedent comment [slashdot.org] .

Now you don't need a STB in the last line.

Both companies struggle for the dominance in the living room. Except that MS is torn between its internal divisions: they get most of their money by licensing software to hardware companies and with the XBox also are a hardware company competing with their licensees... I wonder if they're not limiting themselves with the XBox to not lose these licensees...

it slices, it dices (3, Interesting)

conspirator57 (1123519) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343233)

it prepares food ten different ways! Don't forget, we just added the kitchen sink!

Seriously, though. I like having discrete devices because stuff breaks and I like to:
1. amortize the impact (cost, etc.) of a breakage by having less expensive components
2. get components that do fewer things, but do them better
3. have a DVD on while playing a game. PiP, you know.
and several other reasons i'm forgetting just now.

Re:it slices, it dices (1)

slobarnuts (666254) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343417)

But now only have to buy ONE extended warranty!

Re:it slices, it dices (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343579)

Seriously, though. I like having discrete devices because stuff breaks

Then you get an equipment rack like mine, which easily has ten devices in it.

How often does your stuff break? I know asking people to take care of their stuff or asking them to not buy garbage is hard. I couldn't convince my sister to NOT buy an APEX DVD player, she bought one and it died a year later, even with vent holes added to keep it cool. Maybe in the last ten years, I've had one of my AV components die on me.

Re:it slices, it dices (1)

conspirator57 (1123519) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343987)

My statement there was a generalized truism. In practice i exercise a more complicated set of rules that govern my purchasing. I tend towards quality, but am budget-minded, which makes my feature specifications flexible. E.g. I have a 10 yr. old Nak receiver that cost me $300 which I feel absolutely no need to replace and which has lasted quite well. However, being a EE, I know there are so many subsystems with so many and varied failure vectors that my experience with the Nak is rare, despite their excellent reputation. I've repaired Nak tape decks, so yes, contrary to popular opinion, they will eventually break, even under proper care and use.

Generally, I am particularly cautious when a piece of gear has moving parts, magnetic media, or optics. Internal power supplies are also suspect, though unavoidable and less failure prone when smaller (less load) as they tend to be in devices that do fewer things. This last bit is especially a problem when, as in this case, the vendor throws in more capability without reanalyzing the power profile of the device, or worse: ignoring unfavorable results for the existing power supply in the supply chain in order to reduce costs.

Microsoft called they want their idea back (0)

InsaneGeek (175763) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343243)

Using a game console as a viewing device and having a secondary device to act as a TV tuner/Media manager... sure sounds like Xbox + Windows Media Center to me. I thought the PS3 was supposed to be leading the whole media front rather than playing catchup/me-too. Granted I'm not a big fan of the WMC look and feel, but they've been doing it for years already so the PS3 should have had this from the start (heck WMC can do encrypted cable card capture, and send it the Xbox) rather than months later.

Re:Microsoft called they want their idea back (1)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343761)

Sony already does this too - it's called LocationFree. So no, they didn't steal this idea from Microsoft.

Sony watches what you watch (0, Troll)

HamsterRabies (1124759) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343247)

should change the title to what mine is.

Sony = Spyware anyways. Now they're going to track what I watch ???? I dont think so!!!!

Will this feature the same fair market value assessment that those idiots did when they intro'd PS3 to the marketplace?
Probably have a subscription fee, a warranty fee, a recorder fee, and add $450 to the price of the console.

Losing focus (1)

Flipao (903929) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343255)

The PS3 is a games console first and a multimedia machine second. No matter how much they keep adding to it, it's not going to make any that much more attractive to gamers simply because the price tag is becoming even more prohibitive.

That's one of the main reasons they're lagging so far behind Nintendo, when a cheaper alternative works better, you're doing something wrong.

So.. Different SKU I assume? (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343269)

I thought Sony was afraid of having multiple SKUs..

(and maybe they should get around to finalizing the Bluray spec first?!)

Maybe Europe is different... (1)

wooden pickle (1006975) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343275)

Here, I have to use my cable box anyway. So, this would be an even more colossal waste of money than the PS3 already is, assuming of course that this new version costs more.

Re:Maybe Europe is different... (2, Informative)

Goth Biker Babe (311502) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343429)

Here, in the UK, we have free terrestrial digital television [1]. I get about 30 channels of TV (DVB-T PAL resolution) and 40 of audio through my antenna. In a year or so analogue will be turned off so all new TVs come with digital receivers. There are also unencrypted free channels on satellite (DVB-S PAL and HD). I'm not sure how many right now but it must be nearing 100 odd [2]

So yes this isn't useful for premium services and pay per view where the broadcaster insists on a secure path but there is an awful lot of programming out there which is free and can be recorded.

[1] http://www.freeview.co.uk/home [freeview.co.uk]
[2] http://www.astra2d.com/freesat-epg.htm [astra2d.com]

Re:Maybe Europe is different... (1)

clonmult (586283) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343845)

The analog switch off is scheduled for 2007 to 2012. You must be in one of the "lucky" areas.

In the UK you'll need a TV license (2, Informative)

giafly (926567) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343277)

Sony has announced that they will add digital TV and DVR capabilities to the PS3 in Europe

The law requires everyone, including students, to be covered by a licence if they use any device to receive television programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes any TV set, DVD or video recorder, digital box, PC, laptop or mobile phone - TV Licensing [tvlicensing.co.uk]
I expect Slashdotters to reply along the lines of "but I won't use my PS3 to watch TV so I don't need a license". Tell it to the judge, guys, when you get prosecuted.

Re:In the UK you'll need a TV license (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343505)

Of course you will. It becomes a TV tuner. Why wouldn't you? Most people already have a licence so it hardly matters.

Re:In the UK you'll need a TV license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343763)

While this may be a fair point to some, I doubt that there are many people around that connect their PS3 to a display device that didn't contain a TV tuner in the first place.

Re:In the UK you'll need a TV license (1)

lonely (32990) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343805)

Yes, in the UK if you told that to the judge and they couldn't prove you were watching TV then you are okay. I owned a tv and video projector for some time before I finally caved and got a TV license. Until then I didn't watch TV. No problem.

Emacs! (5, Funny)

alph0ns3 (547254) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343337)

It seems like the PS3 is the new Emacs: It's a good all-around computer, the only thing missing is good games!

Can it record while you play online? (1)

LordZardoz (155141) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343363)

While PVR functionality would be a nice added feature for the PS3, I have to wonder if it will be capable of recording a program while your playing a game or watching a DVD.

If it cannot record, than its utility as a recording device is much more limited. My current PVR will let me record the shows I like while I play a console title simply by virtue of being a separate piece of hardware. Otherwise, they would be better off trying to add some sort of background torrent streaming so it can download programs while idle.

END COMMUNICATION

This is a great feature (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343389)

Europe has a lot of terrestrial digital channels via DVB-T. This add-on for the PS3 is essentially a twin tuner that receives DVB-T and allows you to record and watch shows as well as getting listings. Not only that but it appears Sony are future proofing it by allowing it to receive H264 HD channels when they start to appear making it doubly appealing. I think this device will generate a lot of interest for the PS3 in Germany, France and the UK.

The one concern I have is how this plugs into the PS3. I assume the receiver plugs into a USB port, but does it require one port or two? Is one port sufficient for the data? I know PC USB tuners manage on one, but how will it cope with twin tuners and H264? Additionally the PS3 has USB ports on it's front side which might make this thing look a little kludgy when its plugged in.

Still, it's a welcome addition and about bloody time. Consoles are more than capable of acting as multi-media centres (not dumb streaming slaves to PCs), so it's nice to see Sony treating the PS3 like one.

Re:This is a great feature (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343583)

I don't think it will generate a huge amount of interest here in the UK. We don't have any HD channels on Freeview, and won't be getting any, either, if Sky get their way with Ofcom.

If it's only doing standard def, then there are standalone boxes for that price with included hard drives bigger than the one in the PS3.

Re:This is a great feature (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343677)

I don't think it will generate a huge amount of interest here in the UK. We don't have any HD channels on Freeview, and won't be getting any, either, if Sky get their way with Ofcom. If it's only doing standard def, then there are standalone boxes for that price with included hard drives bigger than the one in the PS3.

I think the UK will get HD as the analogue stations are turned off. Sky is not in a strong position to complain about this. Besides, even an SD twin tuner costs something like £150. If you have a PS3 or are thinking of one, you might think that a (let's say) £70 widget for the PS3 that turns it into an upscaling PVR with future proofing is actually a good deal. Especially when the PS3 is also a music / video player as well as a kickass games console.

Re:This is a great feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343615)

each HD stream is 20 mbps or less. how many USB ports do you figure it needs ?

Re:This is a great feature (1)

clonmult (586283) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343773)

Whilst H264/HD support is pretty cool, for the UK at least, decent coverage of such is about 4-5 years off.

If they live that long, Sony will probably have the PS4 Uberbox out on the market .....

Dear Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20343397)

Dear Sony,

While you're at it, please add an internet radio tuner, a la iTune's directory, so I can tune the thing to Soma.fm.

Thanks much,
The Internets

Two 1080P Tuners? (1)

tji (74570) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343411)

That's a misleading way of saying it has two digital tuners. 1080P is nonsense in that context, the tuners don't play any part in the decoding or display of the video. They just take the broadcast and convert it into a digital stream that the system saves to disk. Just like my HDHomeRun networked Tuners are "1080i or 720p tuners" because it grabs the broadcast and sends t to my MythTV box via UDP.

But, with the horsepower of the PS3, it could make a nice DVR. The cell processors can be utilized to decode the few 1080P H.264 channels available in Europe - or the much more common SD Widescreen channels.

Can it record TV programs to a network drive, or at least a USB drive?
It can transcode for use on the PSP.. that's a nice use of the Cell power. Can that be done for iPods, iPhones, or Laptop use too?

Of course, it won't ever do some of the things MythTV does, like commercial flagging/skipping..

So what's the market? (1, Flamebait)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343469)

I am seriously getting confused about what the PS3 is meant to be. So far it seems to be doing its best to be a jack of trades and still fairing worse than a PC for the cost. Options of what it is meant to be:
    - Game console
    - Blu ray player
    - PC (I believe it was suggested at some point)
    - TiVo

Now which one is it successful at being at? There is nothing worse than losing focus and at least with a PC you can do whatever you want with it.

Still Missing... (1)

pragma_x (644215) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343487)

... CableCard support.

Seriously. If a game console can do DVR and Tuner stuff, then just add a CableCard slot and the days of the proprietary cable-co. box are numbered. Microsoft, are you listening?

Then again, if they can manage to get the price-point down a tad, maybe they can just make an OEM deal with Comcast or Cox, and be done with it. It would have to be better than the POS boxes they're using now.

Well thats me sold... (1)

MrACarter (1140351) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343493)

Im a UKer, I have a 360 and I love it, HOWEVER seen as Microsoft seem unwilling to add the video marketplace over here and seen as there is a complete lack of decent TIVO like systems in this country, I'm probably gonna loose my anti Sony bias (Long time Xbox and Nintendo fanboy) because at last a company has actually realised that Europe is quite a large market and bloody well given us something! Thank you Sony, you've just gained a customer.

Just wait... (2, Insightful)

DesertBlade (741219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343503)

Until the release the price point. Sure it may be worth it at $700-$00 but is it worth it at $1500? And I wouldn't be surrised if there was a monthly fee to use the feature. That is where the money is at, reaccuring fees.

"sony" -- Webstr explains (5, Funny)

maztuhblastah (745586) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343507)

sony - v.

1. To anger one's customer base in a flagrant manner. Ex: "2KGames really Sonyed us with that SecuROM stuff."

2. To desperately seek relevance in a market in which your success is dwindling. Ex: "Did you hear that Sony's going to add a TV Tuner and DVR to the PS3?"
 

No burner? (1)

yuna49 (905461) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343511)

I didn't see any evidence that you'd be able to burn these programs to the Blu-Ray device, just store them on the PS3's hard drive. Are Blu-Ray burners godawful expensive, or is this just an aversion to letting people make hard copies of copyrighted materials?

It's amusing to see how Sony has jumped the fence since the Betamax days. Now that it's big into music and movies, it suddenly doesn't seem quite so aggressive about marketing devices that can duplicate copyrighted materials.

Company comparison (1, Interesting)

Philotechnia (1131943) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343517)

Sony = style, but no content Microsoft = content, but no style Apple = the perfect fusion of style and content Personally, I'm holding back my hard earned dollars until the iGame comes to market...

Re:Company comparison (2, Interesting)

GammaKitsune (826576) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343609)

Try Nintendo. And don't hold your breath for an iGame. Even if it did come out, it would no doubt go the way of the N-Gage. Apple and gaming have never gotten along.

Re:Company comparison (1)

Philotechnia (1131943) | more than 7 years ago | (#20343977)

I'm not holding my breath. But with convergence being the latest buzzword in the industry, and as gaming devices and media continue to meld, it does seem to make a certain bit of sense. Who would have thought before the Xbox that Microsoft would become a major console player? As I recall, that decision was greeted with its fair share of derision and skepticism. And really, why did Microsoft get into the market? I think they saw this convergence coming, and wanted to make sure that they were a player. Apple might be smart to through their hat into the ring, especially with EA coming on board as an OS X developer...

iTV = PS3 minus the games. That formula reduces to iTV = PS3.

Re:Company comparison (1)

JamesRose (1062530) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344239)

Could you be more of an apple troll, how the hell can Apple be content and style? They don't have a product! They don't compete in that market in anyway shape or form. If you are talking about in general, then yoiu're still wrong, because sony doesn't lack copntent in it's other products, and microsoft deosn't lack style in some of it's other products.

additional features (1)

Floritard (1058660) | more than 7 years ago | (#20344167)

Not mentioned in TFA is another exciting new feature. A wireless bed pan with built in rumble! Experience full gluteal tactile feedback and fully immerse yourself in your gaming experience, defecating right along with your in-game avatar. Now the PS3 is the most amazing console ever.












For me to poop on!
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