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NeoOffice 2.2.1 Available For Mac

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the closer-to-the-platform dept.

Software 200

VValdo writes "Following a month or so of their Early Access Program, NeoOffice, the free Office suite for OS X, has just released NeoOffice 2.2.1. New features include support for the native Mac OS X spell-checker and address book; support for high-resolution printing (more than the 300 dpi that previous versions allowed); the ability to open, edit, and save most Microsoft Office 2007 Word, Excel, and PowerPoint documents; and the latest features from OpenOffice.org 2.2.1, which is the code base for NeoOffice. X11 is not required, but for those of you who actually want to use X11, check out the new RetroOffice."

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Say what? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20367871)

...for those of you who actually want to use X11...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

also of interest to mac users: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20367873)

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I
had to take a piss. As I entered the john a big beautiful all-American
football hero type, about twenty-five, came out of one of the booths.
I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he
washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and
married - and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with
him.

        As soon as he left I darted into the booth he'd vacated,
hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still
warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the
shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left
behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It
apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat,
stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd
- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist.

        I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and
wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd
always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little
clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass
and not an end in itself. Of course I'd had jerk-off fantasies of
devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't), but I had never done
it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound
turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy
and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's
handsomest young stud.

        Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both
hands to keep it from breaking. I lifted it to my nose. It smelled
like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the
consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit
without the benefit of a digestive tract?

        I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it
smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does.

        I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into
my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock,
beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and
bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet
flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had
chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed
I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I
soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd
passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily,
sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My
only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down
with his piss.

        I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the
cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more
delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with
the rich bitterness of shit.

        Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But
then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There
was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished
them out, rolled them into my handkerchief, and stashed them in my
briefcase. In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the
shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever
unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole. Not an
unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

        I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using
them but within a week they were all gone. The last one I held in my
mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit
trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six
orgasms in the process.

        I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out
of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could,
and at least once did, bring to a grateful shiteater.

Congratulations. (1)

Luke727 (547923) | more than 7 years ago | (#20367907)

Normally I have a strong stomach for these things, but your literary masterpiece nearly made me vomit. Thank you, kind sir.

Re:also of interest to mac users: (-1, Offtopic)

tezbobobo (879983) | more than 7 years ago | (#20367955)

I hate you. Thank you for ruining my life.

Re:also of interest to mac users: (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20367979)

What are you, twelve? OS flamewars are retarded enough, but to go to the trouble of saving that suggests you have issues.

I for one (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20367985)

welcome our shit-eating overlords.

Re:also of interest to mac users: (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368183)

That was amazing. The greatest off-topic troll post I have ever seen, and I view /b/. Congrads.

Re:also of interest to mac users: (4, Interesting)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368363)

It would be nice if Slashdot added a feature in which a post could be modded down enough that it was actually deleted (lazy deletion at least)

Re:also of interest to mac users: (1)

raydobbs (99133) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368629)

There is - it's called -6 to Coward posts.

Then never browse beneath 0.

Re:also of interest to mac users: (1)

niceone (992278) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369235)

It would be nice if Slashdot added a feature in which a post could be modded down enough that it was actually deleted (lazy deletion at least)

I think doing that would screw up the research of future generations of archaeologists studying privative herds of geeks.

Re:also of interest to mac users: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20369355)

actually, browsing the comments at -1 can be entertaining. it's something to do while at work. (aside from working)

After reading your post, Safari felt snappier! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20369221)

Must be some kind of digestive effect.

too little, too late? (4, Informative)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#20367943)

Like many other Macintosh users, I downloaded the iWorks '08 [apple.com] trial and promptly purchased it. I've used OpenOffice/NeoOffice (on Linux and Mac OS). iWork looks, feels, and behaves like a native program. *Office doesn't.

Re:too little, too late? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20367993)

But iWorks '08 sucks, so why did you purchase it? Do you enjoy the crummy spreadsheet program or the word processor that takes forever and a day to do anything? Didn't you read any reviews/warning first? And why the Hell do you slam NeoOffice for not being "native" when they no longer require X11? Are you a moron or something?

Re:too little, too late? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368021)

But iWorks '08 sucks, so why did you purchase it? Do you enjoy the crummy spreadsheet program or the word processor that takes forever and a day to do anything? Didn't you read any reviews/warning first? And why the Hell do you slam NeoOffice for not being "native" when they no longer require X11? Are you a moron or something?

But iWorks '08 sucks, so why did you purchase it? Do you enjoy the crummy spreadsheet program or the word processor that takes forever and a day to do anything? Didn't you read any reviews/warning first? And why the Hell do you slam NeoOffice for not being "native" when they no longer require X11? Are you a moron or something?

Re:too little, too late? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368029)

But iWorks '08 sucks, so why did you purchase it? Do you enjoy the crummy spreadsheet program or the word processor that takes forever and a day to do anything? Didn't you read any reviews/warning first? And why the Hell do you slam NeoOffice for not being "native" when they no longer require X11? Are you a moron or something?

Re:too little, too late? (4, Insightful)

c_forq (924234) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368005)

While I like iWork (especially Numbers) as a word processor I find it lacking. For layout it is easily the best program I have ever used, but for writing a research paper I would rather use Microsoft Word. Last time I did a research paper on Open Office it severely screwed up my footnotes (which on a 50 page document with 1-6 footnotes per page is kind of a big deal). Unfortunately Microsoft Office 2004 seems slow on my MacBook (I'm told this is due to it being a non-universal application and running through Rosetta) so I am still looking forward for Microsoft Office 2008. I still have high hopes for iWork to continue to progress, Apple seems to be very good at looking at what people are doing and want to do with programs, and have seemed to always put effort into serving students in higher education.

Re:too little, too late? (5, Insightful)

Bluesman (104513) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368031)

Use LaTeX for research papers. Thank me later.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

c_forq (924234) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368053)

I tried to start using LaTeX when my primary computer was a Ubuntu desktop, but never really got it it figured out. Could you recommend an easy to use OS-X LaTeX editor with a nice tutorial?

Re:too little, too late? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368097)

TeXShop. I swore by it (when at university). Uses Quartz and PDFTex to render directly to PDF -- DVI + PS not necessary. Oh and did I mention that it uses the Mac UI and Quartz. Yeah.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

shking (125052) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368101)

Go to either MacUpdate [macupdate.com] or Version Tracker [versiontracker.com] for Mac software with user ratings and reviews

Re:too little, too late? (4, Informative)

linguae (763922) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368139)

I use TeXShop [uoregon.edu] for all of my LaTeX needs. It's not just a LaTeX editor, but also contains an easy-to-use environment to create PDFs on the fly. It is also bundled with a graphical BiBTeX editor to store bibliographies. Way better than the command-line tools that I've used on my old FreeBSD machine :).

As for LaTeX tutorials, I use "The Not So Short Introduction to LaTeX 2E." It's a very good tutorial that will get you started working with LaTeX code. I use LaTeX for all of my research papers except for those that employ the MLA format (LaTeX was designed for scientists and mathematicians, not keeping English and history majors in mind. But sometimes a science/math student needs to write an English paper, and I haven't been satisfied with existing MLA themes for LaTeX). If you must use MLA, just stick with Word.

where is it? (1)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368587)

The link you have says Not Found, and other links that come up on google point there also. Anyone know where it went?

Re:where is it? (1)

totally bogus dude (1040246) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369029)

Just FYI, that link -- http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop/ [uoregon.edu] -- works for me(tm). Maybe it was a temporary problem. Is it working for you now, or something mysterious afoot?

Re:too little, too late? (1)

vonFinkelstien (687265) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369143)

It's a pity that there aren't any good MLA packages out there for LaTeX.

Re:too little, too late? (2, Informative)

zefram cochrane (761180) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368141)

Texmaker is a nice multi-platform LaTeX editor that uses templates. Another option would be TeXShop. As for a good tutorial, the not-so-short guide to LaTeX is a great way to go. Long-short guide [tug.org] LaTeX is simply the best tool for working with research papers and the like with structured formatting and bibliographical information use BibTeX.

Re:too little, too late? (3, Informative)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368171)

I've used LyX (used it for my doctoral thesis) almost exclusively as a LaTeX editor. I highly recommend it for just about anyone (it's available for OS X, Windows, and, of course, linux). It comes with its own tutorial.
http://www.lyx.org/ [lyx.org]

Re:too little, too late? (1)

Trogre (513942) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368349)

BlueSky TeXtures is a lovely TeX IDE. Only problem is that they're still stuck in OS9 so you need to run it in classic mode. Though an OSX release will be out Any Day Now(tm).

Re:too little, too late? (1)

Yggdrasil42 (662251) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369113)

That's not gonna work. The OP said he was using a Macbook. OS 9 Classic mode is not available on Intel Macs.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

Bluesman (104513) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368805)

I used LyX for a while, and it's great, but completely unnecessary. LaTeX is simple enough that you could learn most of what you need in a few hours, from tutorials you can find on the web, and then use your favorite text editor. (I like emacs in viper mode.)

If you can write HTML, you can write LaTeX. They're essentially the same idea, only LaTeX is much more complete with nicer output.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

physicsnick (1031656) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369241)

For a good LaTeX tutorial, I highly recommend A Beginner's Guide to LaTeX [ctan.org] . It's a tremendous guide which is very useful both for learning LaTeX and as a reference. It's what I used to learn LaTeX, and I continued to use the guide as a reference throughout university in everything I wrote from essays to lab reports to research papers. Once you've got LaTeX and an IDE installed, hop into Chapter 2 and start reading.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368545)

Use LaTeX for research papers. Thank me later.
Interestingly enough, I just ran into a program called OcTeX [apple.com] which looking for a movie trailer on the Apple site. I haven't used it, but thought it relevant... and it's freeware.
 

Re:too little, too late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368689)

I wish it were so. I use Lyx and it's great as long as you stick to their styles. However, if you want it to do MLA, you're out of luck. There is only partial hackish MLA support for LaTex. It's really a shame because it absolutely rocks for scientific styles.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

vonFinkelstien (687265) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369125)

I use LaTeX on my Mac for everything I hand out to my students. I'm an English teacher in Sweden. I've even typeset several books with LaTeX.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

gatzke (2977) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369693)

Or use LyX as a front end to LaTeX. A little closer to WYSIWYG with GUIs for most everything.

LaTeX is amazing, but hacking a plain text file is a bit rough for 95% of the people out there. There are a number of editors out there, but LyX is the one I have used for years. Free, and .lyx files are plain text (like .tex files). Why are people still using binary formats for documents?

Re:too little, too late? (5, Interesting)

mspohr (589790) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368181)

I had the opposite experience with my wife's Master's thesis. This had very strict requirements for formatting and MS Word kept doing very strange things with margins and footnotes. It would insert odd spacing and pagination and it was just impossible to get it right. Some of the pages were just grossly wrong and couldn't be fixed.

Finally, I opened the document in OpenOffice and was able to easily fix all of the problems with margins and footnotes and I printed the final copies from OpenOffice. It would have saved me a lot of time to have started the project in OpenOffice.

Re:too little, too late? (-1, Troll)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368187)

I just had to laugh when I heard you did your "research" papers in Microsoft Word. Not even Microsoft Research does that.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

omeomi (675045) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368343)

I just had to laugh when I heard you did your "research" papers in Microsoft Word. Not even Microsoft Research does that.

Yeah, because only math and engineering students do research...do you honestly think the average medical student (for instance) is using LaTeX for their research papers?

Re:too little, too late? (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368575)

...do you honestly think the average medical student (for instance) is using LaTeX for their research papers?

No, but they should be.

Re:too little, too late? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20369379)

\begin{flamebait}
Your average medical student doesn't need to write equations... to them, equations are HOLY THINGS which no one should ever handle. Once an equation is established it is like a HOLY TRUTH.

All the mathematics they will ever need in their papers are the (holy) p values (which has to be less than 0.05 --- a threshold which gives their results the status of HOLY TRUTH).
\end{flamebait}

Post anonymous to continue to get medical treatments...

For writing papers, check out Mellel (3, Interesting)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369163)

Last time I did a research paper

I use Mellel [redlers.com] for papers and the like. If the thing you're writing is highly structured (wich chapters and footnotes and endnotes and citations), nothing beats Mellel, in my opinion. It's small, cheap, fast, and does everything you would want, easily. Rearrange chapters? Drag and drop them in the outline. Change the font of all second level chapters? Easy. Multiple languages? No problem, even mixing rtl and ltr.

I know I sound like a shill, but I'm actually a paying customer and have no ties - financial or otherwise - to the company making Mellel. Check the app out. It's one of the reasons I use a Mac.

Re:For writing papers, check out Mellel (2, Interesting)

Zhe Mappel (607548) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369243)

I don't mind praising a great program.

Mellel is fast, intuitive, powerfully adaptive, well-supported and affordable. The cream of the crop in indy OS X word processors.

Re:too little, too late? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368017)

If Apple wanted to do anything other than vendor lock-in with iWorks, they would have just contributed to OpenOffice instead.

Re:too little, too late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368131)

And Linus should have just released patches for minix? Sorry, but sometimes you have to admit that a turd is a turd and start over.

Re:too little, too late? (2, Insightful)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369185)

I don't think Apple wants to compete with the whole of Office. They want to compete for the people who use Office, but don't really need it and would be happier with a simpler, more graphics-oriented solution.

Re:too little, too late? (0, Redundant)

Arghdee (813921) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368027)

Like many other Macintosh users, I downloaded the iWorks '08 trial and promptly purchased it. I've used OpenOffice/NeoOffice (on Linux and Mac OS). iWork looks, feels, and behaves like a native program. *Office doesn't.

I was going to post this myself. Thanks for saving me the effort :)

Re:too little, too late? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368037)

If you don't know what Cmd-Shift-1 and Cmd-Shift-2 are for, GTFO.
If you think Firefox is a decent Mac application, GTFO.
If you're still looking for the "maximize" button, GTFO.
If the name "Claris" means nothing to you, GTFO.

Bandwagon jumpers are not welcome among real Mac users [atspace.com] . Keep your filthy PC fingers to yourself.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368055)

I keep both iWork (06) and NeoOffice. I gave OpenOffice the boot because it required X11. I'll give iWork '08 a shot eventually, but I'm trying to avoid spending money for the moment. It's cheap enough, but then, it's something I don't have to have right now.

Re:too little, too late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368075)

Maybe when (hopefully) Apple decides to support ODF. Supporting Microsoft's (using the term loosely) standard is great, but I'd like more options.

Re:too little, too late? (3, Informative)

linguae (763922) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368077)

Like many other Macintosh users, I downloaded the iWorks '08 trial and promptly purchased it. I've used OpenOffice/NeoOffice (on Linux and Mac OS). iWork looks, feels, and behaves like a native program. *Office doesn't.

After purchasing my MacBook last year (I was previously a Windows and *nix user, now my Mac is my sole computer), I tried (and eventually purchased iWork 06. I love Keynote (I bought it solely for Keynote, in fact) and believe that Keynote > PowerPoint > OO Impress, but I'm just not really into Pages no matter how many times I've used it. I like the concepts of styles and use LaTeX for all of my non-MLA papers, but whenever writing any other type of document, I prefer the more "free" structure of Word/OO Writer/AbiWord/etc. to Pages's strict enforcement of styles. My biggest problem with iWork (don't know about iWork 2008, however) is its very imperfect compatibility with MS Office file formats. The basics are correct, but anything that requires tables, exact layout, more complex styles, etc. starts to look jarbled. So, I like iWork a lot (much speedier than MS Office 2004 due to my having an Intel Mac, not to mention cheaper [$49 vs $149 for students]), but for perfect compatibility, I don't trust it.

I've also tried NeoOffice on my machine. As stated earlier, I vastly prefer Writer to Pages. NeoOffice was a necessity to me because of its spreadsheet (iWork 06 doesn't have a spreadsheet; that changed with iWork 08; I still need to try it). NeoOffice's compatibility with MS Office documents is superb, and I use NeoOffice to open and save documents where compatibility is very important. However, my complaint with NeoOffice is its speed (it is dog slow on my 1.83GHz Core Duo MacBook with 512MB RAM, but I plan on upgrading to 2GB). The fact that the widgets are non-native and fake-looking do not add to the problem, either.

Personally, I'm waiting for MS Office 2008 to come out (finally a native version for Intel Macs). However, if iWork 08 is a major improvement with compatibility, or if NeoOffice makes big improvements with speed and its interface, then I might not have to shell out the cash.

Re:too little, too late? (4, Interesting)

Swampash (1131503) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368237)

I love Keynote ... but I'm just not really into Pages no matter how many times I've used it.

I think Pages has been and is misrepresented as a word processor. It's really a page-design and layout tool. Rather than "Apple's word processor" I think of it as "Indesign lite".

Keynote, of course, stomps Powerpoint in almost every possible way.

Re:too little, too late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368839)

Sounds like a Microsoft Publisher competitor.

hooray for OO/Neo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368993)

I support MS Office users, the different PowerPoint formats are always tripping them up. I break the slides up into the individual jpegs, then play them in order. If nothing else, I just play them on my Archos to save the day.

The presentation program in NeoOffice is excellent. Apple should be contributing to this instead of their not-invented-here iWorks. Their customers would be a lot happier.

Re:hooray for OO/Neo (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369193)

The presentation program in NeoOffice is excellent. Apple should be contributing to this instead of their not-invented-here iWorks. Their customers would be a lot happier.

I don't think Apple could just take NeoOffice and do whatever it wants with it without a huge outcry from the community. But to reach something like Keynote, you need to do exactly that.

Not sure how you think Apple working with the NeoOffice guys would work...

Re:hooray for OO/Neo (1)

rvw (755107) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369635)

I don't think Apple could just take NeoOffice and do whatever it wants with it without a huge outcry from the community. But to reach something like Keynote, you need to do exactly that.
I don't know about NeoOffice, but they could take OpenOffice Aqua, support that. The problem with NeoOffice is that the interface is slow, although they made enormous improvements. I hope 2.2 is another speed improvement. I'm curious how OpenOffice Aqua will perform. Apple could help here really good. Furthermore NeoOffice is really slow with large documents with many pictures in it.

Re:too little, too late? (2, Informative)

MojoStan (776183) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369011)

I think Pages has been and is misrepresented as a word processor. It's really a page-design and layout tool. Rather than "Apple's word processor" I think of it as "Indesign lite".

I've read this (that Pages is not a word processor) in articles and on Slashdot. However, Apple still categorizes (misrepresents?) Pages as a "word processor":

  • "Writing comes naturally when you're using Pages '08, the streamlined word processor for the Mac." --iWork Overview [apple.com]
  • "Word processing never looked this good." --Pages Product Info [apple.com]

Not any more. New word processing mode. (1)

smurfsurf (892933) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369307)

> I think Pages has been and is misrepresented as a word processor. It's really a page-design and layout tool.
> Rather than "Apple's word processor" I think of it as "Indesign lite".

I certainly agree for the previous version of Pages and it made it too complicated for the big "I just want to write a letter" crowd. But this has changed with the latest version. The new Pages' word processing mode is just this. Best word processor for the average joe, IMHO. Not so suitable for extensive scientific papers due to missing features.

Re:too little, too late? (5, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368087)

I'd gladly buy it if it supported ODF. But if I'm going with something other than MS Office, it's at least going to use open standards that the rest of the world is migrating to. Seriously, the iWorks formats have all the lock-in of Office but none of the ubiquity. What's the point in that?

Re:too little, too late? (4, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368371)

How is that a troll? I don't want proprietary formats, and I just don't see the logic in creating new ones when ODF pretty much has word processing covered. If I were OK with proprietary formats, I'd chose the one that 95% of the population uses, not one that will only let me interact with a small subset of users of a still relatively little-used OS. I have a Mac and I wouldn't hesitate to buy iWork if it didn't mean being locked in yet again.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

tsa (15680) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369043)

It was a troll because you said something negative about Apple. Welcome to /. where moderators run wild.

Re:too little, too late? (4, Informative)

gutter (27465) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368635)

Seriously, the iWorks formats have all the lock-in of Office but none of the ubiquity.

The huge difference between the iWorks formats and Office formats is that the iWorks formats are sane and well documented XML:

[apple.com] http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleAppl ications/Conceptual/iWork2-0_XML/Chapter02/chapter _2_section_4.html [apple.com]

So, while it's true that iWorks is the only real option for editing them now, it shouldn't be too hard to convert them in the future - you can probably get them into ODF with some simple scripts, or potentially even simple XSL transforms.

this cures the symptoms but not the disease (3, Interesting)

roesti (531884) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369351)

So, while it's true that iWorks is the only real option for editing them now, it shouldn't be too hard to convert them in the future

What it doesn't do is answer the basic question of why we need another set of document formats. We've heard this story before and we've always hated it. However, I'd love to hear from Apple about why TextEdit in Leopard supports ODF and iWork does not.

It's useful to know that Apple has kept the iWork file formats well-documented so far. Given that, there's a chance that NeoOffice will eventually read and write iWork files, and there's a chance that iWork will read and write ODF. We can always hope for both, of course.

If you're happy enough to waste your time converting documents backwards and forwards, feel free to do it again. I'd rather not encourage this sort of behaviour, personally. Eventually, someone else will work around the problem for you, so that when you have to put up with this sort of nonsense, you probably won't even notice. Hey, it's happened before.

Re:this cures the symptoms but not the disease (1)

shmlco (594907) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369549)

"What it doesn't do is answer the basic question of why we need another set of document formats."

Because it's a floor wax and a dessert topping? If it were just another WP I'd agree, but it's also an exceptionally easy to use and well thought out page layout program.

Some people care more about the work they can do with their computers, and how easily, than whether or not a format is "open" or not.

Re:too little, too late? (2, Interesting)

JoeCommodore (567479) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368127)

Problem with iWork is the same AppleWorks has, it is not entirely exportable or cross platform. I really like AppleWorks but now it's discontinued and no avenue to convert DBs and drawings (two of the best parts of AW BTW)

I had been looking for something a bit less of an eventual dead end. OpenOffice/NeoOffice certainly has similar features - OO Draw is superb (but they need to fix tiling on printout), and the DB looks even more capable than ApplWorks DB. Not only that it works on Macs, Windows and Linux and I can readily provide people with the app if they don't have it. Pretty much a win all the way around to me.

I will say iWork has the glitz (PowerPoint and Impress are way behind in animation compared to Keynote - hey, GL guys, where are you???) but that's the only iWork feature I see compelling but then again, in my career, I've probably only created about six PowerPoints.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368731)

Problem with iWork is the same AppleWorks has, it is not entirely exportable or cross platform. I really like AppleWorks but now it's discontinued and no avenue to convert DBs and drawings (two of the best parts of AW BTW)


With the slight difference that iWork's file formats are specified, openly available, and all the component files are stored in open, native formats rather than locked up in mysterious BLOBs.

iWork is perfectly safe to store things in, at least in the sense of being able to get things back out in the future.

Re:too little, too late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368145)

I agree completely. With the addition of Numbers (no pun intended) in iWork '08, Apple has put together a pretty comprehensive and functional office suite that truly gives the user a Mac experience. There's nothing in MS Office or OO.o that I need that can't be accomplished in iWork.

I've used OpenOffice under X11 on the Mac and it feels bloated and clumsy. Office X for Mac is counterintuitive, typical for a Microsoft product. I've even used NeoOffice and its Java framework really brings my Mac to a crawl. I happily paid $80 for iWork and I wonder how Microsoft is going to justify $500 for Office:mac '08. Even free products like OO.o or NeoOffice might have a hard time competing with Apple's iWork because of its perceived value.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

nightcats (1114677) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368193)

Agreed: longtime Mac users will like iWork 08. Keynote alone is worth the $80. You can now do voiceover shows and export to Quicktime without separate audio and video files (my major complaint with the previous versions). Numbers is actually a very good version 1, and Pages is marginally improved as a word processor, and still excellent as a page layout editor. All depends on how you use these types of applications: if you're a Mac user, then graphical quality and accurate, speedy file conversions matter, because that's what you expect. That said, I still use OO in X11 and have very few and minor complaints with it. Faster than MS Office for Mac, safer, and more reliable. What I don't understand is how OO and NeoOffice can get universal binary versions together so quickly while MS will have us waiting till next year. Maybe it's true what one of my geek buddies says about open source: "None of us is as smart as all of us."

Re:too little, too late? (1)

shmlco (594907) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369589)

"Maybe it's true what one of my geek buddies says about open source: "None of us is as smart as all of us.""

As long as we're spouting homilies, how about "too many cooks spoil the broth?" Or any of several dozen about anything designed by a committee?

Re:too little, too late? (1)

sloanster (213766) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368223)

Oh, I dunno, I'm always open to useful tools. A bit of fanboi dramatics isn't enough to deter me.

Just out of curiosity, does iworks grok ODF? There's also the price point, but either way I intend to check them both out on my macbook and see which gives me more bang for the buck.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

gutter (27465) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368697)

Nope, it doesn't read or write it unfortunately - I just tried. Since they're both XML, I wonder how hard it would be to write a converter?

Sad sack (0, Troll)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368289)

Why are Mac users such a negative, sour puss, bunch of sad sacks?

At least, that is the impression one gets from reading Sloshdat. Whenever some people release a new software tool for the Mac, there are ten thousand sad sacks that shoot it down for no good reason.

Re:too little, too late? (2, Interesting)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368747)

iWorks has serious limitations and even Apple doesn't market it as full fledged office suite suited for Enterprise or SMB use. However, I agree in in it's own merits (aka small suite) it rocks and looks seriously cool, specially Keynote.

However, as many of people who use OO.o all the time in other OSes, I need ODF support. Apple is in bed with Microsoft in this one (even supporting Microsoft ego driven ISO screwing), so sorry Jobs, not this time. And all my supported Mac boxes (both PowerPC and Intel ones) has rockin solid NeoOffice 2.1 release, which finally fixed bunch of things which was blocking serious production use.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

tsa (15680) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369007)

Can iWorks handle ODF? Of so I might be tempted to switch from OpenOffice. I'm a bit sick of not being able to read my old files after switching office suits.

Re:too little, too late? (0, Redundant)

tsa (15680) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369017)

Oops that must be suites, not suits. :)

Re:too little, too late? (0, Redundant)

tsa (15680) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369053)

And please mod me down because my question has already been discussed here.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

sakusha (441986) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369093)

I saw your message and realized I hadn't taken Pages for a spin yet. It reminds me of the old MacWrite, a simple basic word processor that gets the Mac UI. I liked it.

Re:too little, too late? (1)

danhuby (759002) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369537)

I second this. I've used both OpenOffice and NeoOffice on my Mac, and while I commend the efforts to produce an open source office suite, they both have a long way to go to match the performance, ease of use and superb interface in iWorks '08 (which was well worth the money).

Re:too little, too late? (1)

teh kurisu (701097) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369551)

I've downloaded the trial as well, and I'm considering buying it as an upgrade to iWork 05 which I have at the moment. Pages seems to have improved drastically in terms of usability since then, and with Numbers I now have no real reason to open NeoOffice at all.

I think all the iWork/OpenOffice/LaTeX arguments (and occasional fanboyism) are a bit beside the point, because they're all going after different markets. iWork is perfectly acceptable for writing documentation for internal company use, which is what I'm using it for at the moment. I find the control over page layout that I have quite useful, as it helps with readability. If I ever wanted to do a mail merge, or some collaborative work, I'd use MS Office or OpenOffice, depending on my audience. If I was writing a major report, I'd use LaTeX.

A few people have mentioned that Pages doesn't cut it as a word processor. But why would Apple write a MS Word clone? MS Office and Open/NeoOffice are already available for OS X. What they've done is write something for those people that think MS Word and OO.o Writer are overkill. An alternative rather than a clone.

Numbers not up to scratch yet, plus no encryption (2, Informative)

mccalli (323026) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369619)

Numbers isn't as powerful as the OpenOffice/NeoOffice spreadsheet yet. Even for me, who only uses it to keep track of hosting costs, the lack of autofilter on Numbers means it can't cope with my fairly simple needs (large block of data which I need to see subsets of pretty quickly). You -can- filter, but it's via a long-winded dialog not a nice set of drop-downs a la autofilter.

Others have mentioned ODF, but there's also password-protection missing from iWork. There's ways round of it course - you can create an encrypted disk image and save to that, but that's more faff than just directly password protecting the file.

I like iWork 08 - feels faster and better than iWork 06. I'm still wavering for upgrades though - I'm not a Keynote user which is its strongest feature, and I rarely use Pages beyond a single one-page letter. Numbers won't handle my workload yet, so I may well just wait until the next revision and see if autofilter/ODF support/password protection gets added to that.

Cheers,
Ian

i for one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20367961)

welcome our NeoOffice overlords.

Torrent? (1)

nursegirl (914509) | more than 7 years ago | (#20367971)

The download site says it'll take forever. Anyone know where to find a torrent? Using Google I can find the 1.1 torrent on the site, and a few 2.0 and 2.1 torrents on other sites.

Re:Torrent? (1)

friedo (112163) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368071)

Here ya go [friedo.com] . That's the PPC version -- I didn't download the Intel version so I'm not gonna seed it.

Re:Torrent? (1)

friedo (112163) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368143)

Oops, that probably won't work. My power went out last night and my NAT got all hosed. I don't have time to fix it right now. My bad.

Re:Torrent? (1, Informative)

itwerx (165526) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368157)

The download site says it'll take forever.

Not that slow - I just got it down from between 300KBs and 1.7MBs. Took a grand total of about 5 minutes.

They want to spy on you, for some reason . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20368169)

NeoOffice's download page has been changed, and now requires you to have cookies enabled in order to reach the download links. WTF? There's no technical reason for it.

I guess it's true: nothing good lasts forever...

Neo Office (1)

alfredo (18243) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368189)

I've downloaded and noticed it looks better. It didn't take too long to launch on this seven year old Mac. Over then next few days I will put it through its paces to see if it runs as good as it looks.

Framemaker (2, Insightful)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368383)

For single author, single file documents, MSWord, Openoffice work fine, but when your working on books, larger documents that are comprised of "1 file per chapter" and require easy to use templates (MSWord creates new font templates automatically) so multiple authors can work on the document at the same time. I prefer to use Adobe Framemaker (unix/mac version available as well).

With properly defined templates prior to writing, it's a snap. Though you could spend a while making 'standardized templates'. I'm a professional tech writer and author many documents (think User's Guides, Service Guides etc..) for a large computer company. There's a dozen of us on the team and this makes it easy to bring a new techwriter up to speed.

The best part, what you see on the screen is exactly what gets printed out. Framemaker has it's place. For making a quick document not really, but for more "industrial efforts" it's definitely better than both word and open/star/neo office.

Framemaker is so EOL though... (2, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368419)

I loved Framemaker. I still help someone with a Mac, who loves Framemaker and still does most work with it.

But Adobe as EOL (End Of Lifed) Framemaker. I don't know how much longer we'll be able to use it, and certainly I don't think we'll see a Universal version (unless there is one I was not aware of)? In any case, Adobe has made it pretty clear that's not where you should start looking for a document processor to take you into the future.

Re:Framemaker is so EOL though... (1)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368531)

But Adobe as EOL (End Of Lifed) Framemaker. I don't know how much longer we'll be able to use it, and certainly I don't think we'll see a Universal version (unless there is one I was not aware of)? In any case, Adobe has made it pretty clear that's not where you should start looking for a document processor to take you into the future.


I feel your pain. my sister is a tech writer and can't believe FrameMaker is EOL, I'm an artist and can't believe Freehand is dead. Adobe has a strange habit of killing products for which no really suitable replacement exists.

(for those who haven't been in the design world for 15+ years, Freehand is not just an illustration program, it was also the single finest small document design application ever made. Adobe saying it can be replaced by Illustrator + InDesign is like saying you can replace Framemaker with MS Word + InDesign)

Re:Framemaker is so EOL though... (1)

raju1kabir (251972) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368927)

I'm an artist and can't believe Freehand is dead.

WHAT? That's horrible. Almost every task can be done in Freehand in about half the time it takes in Illustrator. I can't believe they killed it. Well, yes I can.

Here's hoping the last version of Freehand keeps working in newer versions of OSX. The day it doesn't is the day I stop doing drawing on the computer.

Re:Framemaker is so EOL though... (1)

computer_chacham (111723) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368763)

Well, you can always use the shiny new Windows/Solaris version. Full Unicode support now. Yay!

Re:Framemaker (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368603)

(MSWord creates new font templates automatically)

Yes, and I hate that feature. Usually it means that if you recieve a document, it has 100s of styles from all sorts of manual changes, mangled "Header 1" and "Overskrift 1" (English and Norwegian respectively) and if you ever try to unfuck it chances are the document will go suicidal on you and even if you did, it'd fuck up just as quickly as you send it out again. Most documents should allow only a few styles, headers level 1 through x, normal, table, bullets/numbered...

Re:Framemaker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20369225)

There's an interesting article on doing the same Framemaker-like things in NeoOffice/Openoffice here. And of course Scribus on Linux is very important.

http://www.linux.com/articles/51448 [linux.com] "Creating a book with OpenOffice.org Writer
By Dmitri Popov on January 27, 2006 (8:00:00 AM) "

http://www.linux.com/articles/62231 [linux.com] "Desktop publishing with OpenOffice.org
By Bruce Byfield on June 06, 2007 (8:00:00 AM) "

http://www.linux.com/articles/52351 [linux.com] "Desktop publishing with Writer and Scribus
By Dmitri Popov on February 27, 2006 (8:00:00 AM) "

http://www.linux.com/articles/36822 [linux.com] "Open source cracks publishing wide open
By Mary E. Tyler on June 17, 2004 (8:00:00 AM) "

Re:Framemaker (2)

bazorg (911295) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369403)

I'm a professional tech writer and [...] Framemaker has it's place.
Ha-ha!

Re:Framemaker (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#20369461)

What moved me away from MS Office was it lack of support for single author multi file documents, or indeed documents in which an author was in strict control of the content of a single file. OO.org does a very good job of bringing this multiple files into a single master document and creating a cohesive unified document.

The key, as is often the case, is separating the responsibility for content from the visual formating. Each author is responsible for content, while the master document is responsible for formatting via style sheets. To me this separation i natural. My writing often starts out in a text editor, and only later moves to Latex or word processor or some GUI page layout application.

More on topic, I look forward to looking at this release of NeoOffice. I suppose the versioning has been updated to match the OO.org release, and does not necessarily reflect that expected stability of a 2.2 release. As for X11 use, I don't see the reason to move away from the existing OO.org port.

Bandwidth abuse? (3, Insightful)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368443)

I appreciate the religious purity of putting both the binaries and source code in every download package, but wouldn't it be a bit kinder to the internet in general, the mirrors in particular, and all the users on non-infinite-speed connections, to allow you to download ONLY the binaries?

I mean, out of 152MB for the PPC download, 20MB of that was source code that only.01% of the users will ever even glance at out of curiosity.

Re:Bandwidth abuse? (2, Funny)

skingers6894 (816110) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368477)

...or download the source and compile yourself - a 132MB saving for the Internet...

iWork, not iWorks (1)

Pliep (880962) | more than 7 years ago | (#20368901)

What is the deal with half of the world not spelling the various names of Office applications correctly?

iWork, not iWorks
Excel, not Excell
Word, not Words

Is this an inheritance of the "MS Works" suite?
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