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Quake 1 GPL'ed

Hemos posted more than 14 years ago | from the only-a-matter-of-time dept.

Quake 479

WarSpite was the first of many to write with the news that id has open-sourced the Quake 1 Source Code. This includes WinQuake, GLQuake, QuakeWorld, and GLQuakeWorld. Yes, it's been released under the GPL [?] . id's ftp site got the goods.

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You know what this means... (2)

jawad (15611) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454771)

A new and better way to kill processes in your system!

I'm glad that id open sources their games when they have no "value" (read: ability to be sold) anymore.

Go id!

Thanks! (1)

raskolnik (101795) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454772)

This is sweet. I'm just starting to get the whole "programming" thing into gear, and id gives me everything I need! Thanks tons for the early Christmas gift, Id!
"You should never have your best trousers on when you turn

Rock ON (1)

sPaKr (116314) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454773)

I think Ill buy a copy of QuakeIII just cause they opened up Quake1. Good of ID to see that they arent going to make any real money from selling quake1 and the best thing to do was to open it and make the world a better place. I wonder what new games will come from the engine.

Comp.Sci Students.. (2)

DJStealth (103231) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454774)

As a student in Computer Science, it's nice to know that we can begin to learn from some well-known games.

I'm sure there are many other students who are beginning to develop games and would like some form of hint in where to start. Well.. now they have a place.

Thanks ID.

Personally I'm not a games person, and I don't have much interest in programming games (I'm more of an OS and server person), but that won't stop me from taking a look at the source to see what I can find.

Good news for admins... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454775)

Now we'll be able to kill processes in 3d :)

Expecting some interesting projects (0)

CrusadeR (555) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454776)

Considering the myriad of efforts that started when the Doom source was released (which was around 4 years old when it was made available), I'm excited at what development teams will do with a 3D-accelerated commercial grade engine with a robust network engine...

Again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454778)

Someone leaked it on an FTP site back in 96 but that lasted all of one day. id came down on them like a ton of bricks.

Tools (1)

raskolnik (101795) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454779)

Does anyone know where I can find info and the tools/compilers to mess around with this?
"You should never have your best trousers on when you turn

Mod impact (1)

NightHwk (111982) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454780)

Will this have any impact for mods such as generations? Is artwork, levels, models etc still considerd to be property of the publisher? It would be nice to see some of the oldy and goody quake1 maps ported to q3 without any legal hangups. We're all in search of the perfect game when it comes to that, and I'd love to have at it on e1m7 with all the new tech of q3.

Halflife, etc. (1)

havardi (122062) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454781)

Wasn't Halflife based off a modified Quake 1 engine. Half-life shows that the engine can indeed be used to make specatular games. I've always wished Rainbow Six, Rouge Spear, etc used the Quake engine for multiplayer-- maybe now companies can provide decent multiplayer linux servers for all their FPS games! yay!

Hmmm.... Quake Goodies (2)

ndnet (3243) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454782)

While its slow to happen, the ability of individuals to freely develop 3d games and apps is increasing. A while back Chex had a doom-based cd-rom game on their site, and they had to pay for it.

But the GPLing allows anyone with a slight bit of graphics talent to build their own independant game.

And with Quake now open source, enhancments can be added easier, I.E. the loveable PAIN package (I loved web-swinging like spiderman with the grappling hook and harpoon.)

Think of the possibilities.

XBill 3D would be cool.

Ever seen that episode of the new Jonny Quest where they delete data by shooting it? Make directories into rooms, etc.

And yes, the process killer will have to be ported too.

We could easily have selectable 'levels' signifying file management, process managment, wiping windows, network sniffing, and more!

That's all I want to go on about for now. Hey everyone, please vote for geek number 1 (me!) in the after y2k ( www.nitrozac.com ) look-a-like contest.

Just speculation... (2)

V. (1057) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454783)

...but I wonder if part of their motivation
for doing this is to increase the number of
coders familiar with 3D engines. Seeding the
future labor pool so to speak. But then again...
maybe it's just because they're good guys(and gals).

Connection refused (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454784)

Already !

Maybe someone who already got the stuff could start opening mirror.



Re:Rock ON (1)

gatzke (2977) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454785)

I was thinking the same thing! I have bough a few ID products, but now I feel like I need to get more.

What does Q2/Q3 have that Q1 doesn't? Q1 was real 3D and had GL support- Quakeworld had decent network support for online gaming. There are a ton of mods and tournament play games out there.

Plus, being GPL, RedHat (Debian, etc...) can drop it in their distros...


Thats great but what about other OS's? (2)

nutty (70104) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454786)

This great news for every multi-OS quaker out there, but how will this effect the Mac port?

macsoft took time and money to do thier codin, and i really doubt they'll gpl THAT.

Anyone know more then me?


Re:Thanks! (2)

Foogle (35117) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454789)

Man, if you're *just* getting into programming, Quake's source code is probably a little in the deep end. You might try something a little simpler... like "Hello World". Just kidding, but seriously, Quake's source code is not going to be something you can just jump into.


"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

Alas, Daikatana (1)

Butcher (96532) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454790)

It's rather telling that id have released the source code to Quake free to the public before one of their original Quake-engine licensees has managed to ship. :)

Oh well. They only need to sell 2 million copies to recoup their development costs, as Todd Porter told us about six months ago.

- Butcher

*Very* smart business decision (2)

EngrBohn (5364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454792)

I suppose you could say this is building good-will within the free software community without costing them anymore revenue, and that would be completely true, but this decision is even smarter than just that.

The way to get hired by a computer gaming company is to "show them the source" -- in particular, demonstrate that you can write cool games. By GPL'ing Quake I, id Software is increasing their pool of potential employees to include those who can develop a good 3D game if only they had a good 3D engine that's less than four years old.

Christopher A. Bohn

Re:Halflife, etc. (2)

CaptainCarrot (84625) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454793)

I believe its actually based on the Quake 2 engine. Does anyone recall any other games using the Quake 1 engine? None leap to mind right now.

Re:Mod impact (2)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454794)

Quoth Carmack:
All of the Quake data files remain copyrighted and licensed under the original terms, so you cannot redistribute data from the original game, but if you do a true total conversion, you can create a standalone game based on this code.

Just what I wanted for Christmas (1)

Zalgon 26 McGee (101431) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454795)

Thanks Santa! Many kudos to all at ID for this generous contribution.

There is an error in the title here though: it's only the source that's been GPL'd. The artwork and such are still the intellectual property of ID

On another note, Mr Claus, if you know who's been naughty and who's been nice, could you give me a copy of the list of naughty girls? Many thanks.


included in distros (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454797)

that actually brings up an interesting question...did they GPL the entire game including the pak files or just the engine? if the pak files are still non-free, how would people go about including the game in a distro?


Spice Girls Quake Level (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454798)

Have you played the Spice Girls Quake Plug-in?
You can battle Posh, Sporty, Ginger (okay, she's no longer a Spice Girl), Scary and Baby. Also, David Beckham and Chris Evans are bosses with rocket launchers and chainguns!

Read about all this and more at the Saucy Spice Girls Page [strathleigh.co.uk]

Re:Thats great but what about other OS's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454799)

Wait for a mac coder to take up the job of porting the GPL'd version, it might happen, if not.. "oh well", you'll live. =P

Re:You know what this means... (1)

CaptainCarrot (84625) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454800)

I'd be happier if they'd GPL their level maps, too. They're not really giving away the store...

Amazing... (3)

mecca (20061) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454801)

I think I will have to buy QuakeIII now just to support a company that is so cool. Doh, Guess I'll have to get a Voodoo3 as well. Come to think of it, this GPL announcement just cost me over 100 bucks.

Re:Hmmm.... Quake Goodies (1)

bwelling (62243) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454802)

> XBill 3D would be cool.

Yeah, it would. I wish I had the time to learn about 3D game programming, and the artistic talent to create the models :)

Anybody know how GAS2MASM works? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454803)

Keep trying to run it on the .S files as the readme file suggests, but it doesn't understand the #include and other #-directives in the .S files. I'm a MASM user who doesn't know anything about GAS -- what do I need to do?

Mac glquake should be pretty easy now (4)

John Carmack (101025) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454804)

Producing a mac version of glquake or glquakeworld should be pretty easy with the existing code now that Apple has real OpenGL support.

Producing a version of the software renderer with decent performance would be VERY HARD. A huge amount of effort went into the assembly optimization for the PPC, and it still didn't quite measure up to the x86 code.

John Carmack

Re:Mod impact (2)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454805)

The reason Generations was pulled, was because they directly copied the levels, textures, and models from Quake 1, as well as the sounds from Quake 1, Doom, and Wolfenstein. These are licenced to GTInteractive, Apogee, and a few others I'm sure I've forgotten.

The engine is John's to give away, but the artwork is not :-( This is also why the two Descents, as well as Doom and Wolfenstein code giveaways were not available with data files.

Luckily, all new models and such created for Generations (like the Doom and Wolfenstein models and level recreations) are relatively safe.

Official CVS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454806)

Somebody should take the initiative and set up the unofficial public CVS where the quakeworld source could be further developed. As I understand it quakeworld was abandoned by Zoid as a work in progress and there even is a list of things that still need to be improved upon in a text file included with the source. With a little luck the Quake1 shareware pak file will be GPL'd and then every Linux distribution could include a fully working copy of Quake1! Life would be great... Tim

Re:included in distros (2)

Wah (30840) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454807)

include any of the many TCs (and the ones to follow, id kicks ass)

This code was worth, what, $10 million 4 years ago? An interesting point in the discussion of determining the "value" of software.

Clean Underwear (2)

SPrintF (95561) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454808)

This is why it's so important to (1) indent properly, (2) use meaningful variable names, and (3) provide adequate comments.

You never know when when your code will be GPL'd and then everyone will know what kind of programmer you really are!

Carmack, id and linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454809)

This really pisses me off. Carmack has been a very good friend to the open source/linux community and with doom and quake has been very generous.

I like the idea that companies give their old code up for adoption to the community since it doesn't make them much money as it used to.

But - to the point, remember the privacy problem about a month ago? Well, damn it. Privacy is not a fuzzy line so we have a right to be pissed when it is invaded - the old give an inch and a mile is taken problem. So, I wish id would either side with evil or be open with us about its plans because I like id and Carmack and hate to hate them. None of this half good, half bad stuff.

Anyone feel the same?

Re:Just speculation... (1)

348 (124012) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454810)

Good guys???

The product no longer made any money. They dont really need to keep it under wraps any longer. IMHO this is just an easy way to get big time media coverage. The sites being /.'d now, tomorrow all the geek trades will have a blurb about it.
I like id's stuff as much as the next guy, but this sure looks like a press campain around a product that is being decomissioned.

Re:Again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454811)

.. ya and that was source for beta code

Re:Halflife, etc. (1)

RodStewart (13476) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454812)

The other comments repilying to this thread are half truths, half-life is mostly quake 1 code modified by valve with some quake2 components.

actually it does use the quake (I) engine (2)

havardi (122062) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454813)

Valve originally licensed the source for Quake from id Software and they began working on that code around October of 1996. Between that time and the time they finished Half-Life in October of 1998, they modified/removed/created something like 70% of the code. --Taken from the Official FAQ

Is the Metaverse nearing practicality? (3)

Cycon (11899) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454814)

I see a lot of people already complaining that iD has only released Quake because it wasn't making them money anymore. I find such comments absolutely rude and uncalled-for, iD is doing the open source communitiy a wonderful favor by releasing their code under the GPL. Why don't we concentrate instead on the possibilities opened by this code release...

Now that a fully 3-D rendering engine, which supports 3-D acceleration is available under the GPL, I can only hope that a few aspiring programmers can take all of that code and begin development on some true Virtual Reality software. With high speed access such as cable and dsl becoming available in more and more areas, such an environment is truly becoming feasible.

The way that I see it, all that really needed is a large amount of artwork and new networking code. Imagine that each MetaQuake server is a node in the metaverse, each server acting as either a room, a building, or an entire city (based on available bandwidth), where people logged into one server can interact with one another directly, but you use a "subway" system to transfer your information *between* servers, allowing you to enter new buildings, cities, etc. If all of the servers were interconnected similar to the way the internet itself is connected, it could work. There could even be sub-programs written into the engine in which you can pick up a virtual pay phone, and video conference with someone on another server (or not logged in at all) via a direct connection.

I think that the Quake codebase would certainly be an excellent start, but it's more likely that Quake2 or even Quake3 would act as a better environment to do such programming in. I know that Quake1 modules had to be written in "QuakeC" whereas Quake2 modules could be written in full-blown C, which in my opionion would be better suited to the "videophone applet" or other such modifications. Also, the original Quake networking code wasn't so hot (hence the need for QuakeWorld) whereas Quake2 was much better about it, and Quake3 was actually *designed* for online-only usage.

Perhaps if a small band of programmers started messing around with this sort of stuff right now, we'd all be ready to take advantage of more advanced engines, such as the Quake2 and Quake3 engines one they become available (which they most likely will, the way that iD has been doing things -- Thanks guys!)

Can anyone speak from experience if/how well models and skins, and/or maps created for Quake1 can be ported into Quake2 or Quake3? Is there anyway that level designs for a "metaverse" could be later re-used should iD be so gracious as to release the source to their more recent engines?

--Steven M. Castellotti

Re:Just speculation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454815)

Even if this does serve to increase the number of coders knowledgable about 3D engines...is that a bad thing?
Knowledge == Bad ?

Beginning Game Programming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454816)

If you're just getting into game programming, grab a copy of Andre LaMothe's "Windows Game Programming for Dummies", a truly excellent book.

Um... (2)

Millennium (2451) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454817)

If you're just starting to get the whole "programming" thing into gear, then the Quake engine is not the place to start.

Don't get me wrong, the Quake engine being GPL'd is a great thing, and I applaud Id for it. However, 3D-engines are not a good thing to cut your teeth on. Start small. Code a few 2-D games first (my guess is that you're into game programming). Tetris clones and platformers are always popular (heck, my first game was a taste-challenged Barney-killing simulator back in my high schools Pascal class). Then move on to grander things. You can't build a tool shed in the backyard and then move on to a castle right away. It's the same with coding.

Re:Thanks! (1)

raskolnik (101795) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454818)

yeas, well, i'm obviously not gonna jump right into it. But it gives me somewhere to go after i mess around with wolf and doom :)
"You should never have your best trousers on when you turn

Other possible uses (1)

dsplat (73054) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454819)

I have been thinking for some time how cool it would be to have educational games for Linux for my kids. Hey, there's no reason it has to be boring for adults to be educational for the kids. I wonder how hard it would be to tailor this code to a use like that. There's only two things stopping me:
  1. I am way over-booked, and
  2. as an artist, I make a very good programmer. In other words, I can usually draw a line.

The only upside is that I know where I can find beta-testers.

What...no petrification ray?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454821)

Just joking around.

Is it a business decision? (1)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454822)

>id Software is increasing their pool of potential employees to include those who can develop a good 3D game

I'm not too sure about this. I would want an employee which can come up with something new, not just copy an old way of doing something. Likewise, I don't think that Microsoft will release the code for Office just to increase the employee supply.

I would like to think that Carmack is just doing that annoying "nice guy, give back to the programming/gaming community which I have learned/benifited so much from" thingy.

Bah-humbug to you John Carmack. :)

Re:Just speculation... (1)

jawad (15611) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454823)

I disagree.

I don't think this is a publicity stunt. This is akin to a person having something, using it, and when they've gotten sick of it, offering it to everyone else. I'd much rather have them go "anyone want this?" as opposed to just trashing it (or, putting it aside and not touching it again).

They know it doesn't make money. We know it doesn't make money. But they know we want it anyway.

Thanks, id.

Sourceforge (1)

FORTYoz (5393) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454824)

Sourceforge [sourceforge.net] would be a great place to host a big quake coding project, free web/ftp/cvs/email-lists and more. Its cool :)

Is that really JC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454825)

In the words of Neo... "Woah!"

Re:Carmack, id and linux (1)

ufdraco (78193) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454826)

Welcome to life. Good and bad come in equal measure, whether you like it or not.

Quick economic analysis (1)

swerdloff (16397) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454827)

Formerly proprietary good, now free.

Benefits to ID:
1) Train new 3d-game developers on their code
2) Reap PR benefits of joining the Open Source movement
3) Savings from attempting to protect their rights in their code.

Liabilities to ID:
1) Lowers startup cost for interested outside parties.

Re:Carmack, id and linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454828)

Haha, someone PLEASE moderate this up. This is hilarious.

Re:What...no petrification ray?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454829)

You forgot to add:

Id has made all the difference for me. (1)

Analogue Kid (54269) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454830)

Actually, if it weren't for Id, I probably wouldn't be a game programmer at all. I've always had several programming geek buddies, and thought that games were cool. However all I ever worked on before Id released Doom's source, was lame space invaders clones. I've gotta say that Doom was a great thing to cut my teeth on. If you haven't already, you might want to look at that before you dive into Quake.

Currently I'm toying with the idea of rewriting the graphics code for Decent II, which was also recently released (albeit, not GPL). Unfortunately, only having experience with Id stuff, I don't know much Direct3D. Do any of you know of a good online reference?

Re:Is the Metaverse nearing practicality? (1)

RodStewart (13476) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454831)

hmmm. if you import the models you can, import the skins and animations. ive seen programs that make quake1 maps into quake2/quake3 maps. i think if in the future there is a quake3/4/5 etc. source release we could easily move right to that new source. the question is will people accept it. backwards compatibility is a big issue; i know die-hard quake1 players that wont touch quake3 because of the 'feel'. imagine getting everyone in the metaverse to change to the new quake3 engine, a much slower, albeit prettier engine. but damn even talking about these possibilities is exciting.

Re:The obligatory mirrors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454832)

Now if only we can get CmdrTaco to release the source code. Will we have to wait 5 years?

Re:Thats great but what about other OS's? (3)

Millennium (2451) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454833)

One: MacSoft didn't code MacQuake. Westlake Interactive [westlakeinteracive.com] did. MacSoft only distributed it; they outsourced the development.

Two: I think Westlake has to Open-Source their stuff now, including all six Quakes they did (software, 3Dfx, RAVE, QWsoftware, QW3Dfx, QWRAVE). They were based off the original Quake source, after all, and probably still contain chunks of it (particularly the QuakeC engine and the file-translation routines).

I should also point out that the 3Dfx (and, if I'm not mistaken, RAVE) versions were themselves ports of GLQuake with the rendering engine changed as appropriate. So while the Mac doesn't have a "true" GLQuake, it has pretty much the same thing already. A true GLQuake would be nice, though, and shouldn't be too hard since we already have two very similar programs.

So what... we need to waste MORE time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454834)

Who cares about being able to kill processes in doom. What about having the entire UI in the quake engine. You could control some character (with any skin) in a map that represented your computer. Special parts of the map could be made so you could hunt down processes and run application. There could be a control room for all of the configuration thingies. Using the command line would be easy, just hit "~."

With this kind of system you could connect remotely to a computer and take care of any administrative deeds. Of course if there were other users on the server you could fight it out. Connecting to quake(world) servers on the net would be easy. Just go into the internet-playing room and go through the door to you favorite server.

Then again, such a WM would just be a time sink.

Re:Official CVS (1)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454836)

A project is more than just a CVS server. It needs direction (usually), leadership (of some sort) and demand from developers. I'm sure interested parties will do something.

Re:Mac glquake should be pretty easy now (1)

nutty (70104) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454837)

I bow humbly, knowing that John Carmack replied to my mail. my 15 minutes of fame!

Excuse me while I go tell everyone I know...


Re:Just speculation... (1)

Lando (9348) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454838)

John has been releasing the source code for all of his games a year after moving to a new engine. He had originally intended to ship out the quake source code last Christmas if I remember correctly. So he is a year late, but yeah I'd definately say that he is one of the good guys.

He releases his code. I wish a couple of other gaming companies would do the same. He also contributes to other open source projects. If you want you can bitch about how poor his code is, but having looked through the code now, I'm suprized at how clean it actually is, but don't bitch that the guy(s) aren't helping out...


Wonder what this does (1)

The_Jazzman (45650) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454839)

In quakedef.h :

// This makes anyone on id's net privileged
// Use for multiplayer testing only - VERY dangerous!!!
// #define IDGODS

Hmm... sounds interesting to me...

NEWS: Richard Stallman Missing (3)

cje (33931) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454840)

Open Source Superstar "Nowhere To Be Found," Report Police

CAMBRIDGE, MA (AP) - Richard M. Stallman, better known as "RMS" by the open source software (OSS) community, has apparently vanished off the face of the planet. After missing several speaking appointments and coding commitments, many of his fans have begun to ask questions about his whereabouts. Stallman is the founder of the GNU project, which is dedicated to providing free, open source software to the computing world.

Eunice Bleyfeld, Stallman's neighbor, seemed surprised by Stallman's absence. "I hadn't noticed anything out of the ordinary," she commented to the Associated Press. "He wasn't acting strangely or anything like that the last time that I saw him." However, Mrs. Bleyfeld recounted a strange incident that took place in the middle of the night a few days ago. "I woke up and heard what sounded like an altercation at Mr. Stallman's," she said. "He shouted something like 'I'll frag your ass.' Minutes later, I heard him yell something to the effect of 'Eat my pineapple, bitch!'"

Police psychologists were puzzled by Stallman's alleged ravings. In the meantime, Stallman's apartment door remains locked and phone calls are greeted with a constant busy signal. "We think the phone must have gotten knocked off the hook," explained Cambridge police chief Samuel Breckenridge. "That explains the busy signals. Beyond that, we're not quite sure what to do," continued Breckenridge. "The guy is quite literally nowhere to be found. We're sure that he's not at home, because if he was, you'd think that he would answer the door."

Police have placed Stallman's picture on the side of cartons of CD-Rs and DIMMs nationwide, along with the caption "Have You Seen This Coder?" The hope is that somebody will recognize the missing open source icon and report a sighting to the authorities.

Stallman is famous for his refusal to use anything except free software. In particular, Stallman is a fan of his GPL license, which provides for unrestricted modification and distribution of software.

John Carmack contributed to this story.

QuakeWorld for Irix? (1)

Chris Frost (159) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454841)

Hopefully some[one|people] will have a chance to port quakeworld to irix now . . .

Of course, what I'd really like is a release of Q3 for Irix, but you can't be picky.

Re:Is the Metaverse nearing practicality? (1)

epaulson (7983) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454843)

First off, there are plenty of other engines already availble under the GPL, many of which are far better than the Quake I engine.

Every 3D programmer and their brother dreams of doing the Metaverse. But the Quake source is not the place to start out from.

Re:Wonder what this does (1)

RodStewart (13476) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454844)

this has already been discussed on quake newsgroups. it gave them rcon access to servers, but was removed when people started spoofing the id subdomain. yes it is a bit of a invasion of privacy but there has been a fix for awhile.

Re:Just speculation... (4)

John Carmack (101025) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454845)

Heh. You don't know how much trouble it is to convince biz oriented people that this isn't just plain stupid.

While thinking in terms of money and profit are probably good ways of understanding the way most things work in the world, don't let yourself become so jaded or cynical to think that it is the ONLY way things work.

I do think The World Would Be A Better Place if all software companies released older code so users still interested could work with it or learn from it. (I'm not holding my breath, though)

John Carmack

Santa Carmack (5)

nathanh (1214) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454846)

You better make gibs, you better get frags
You better shoot grunts, zombies and scrags
Santa Carmack G-P... L'd Quake

He's written some code, debugged it all twice
Then made it all free, isn't that nice
Santa Carmack G-P... L'd Quake

He knows when you've been fragging
He knows when you've got quad
He knows when you've just rocket jumped
'Cause Carmack is Quake God

So don't you be lame, don't you not play
Join a net game, I'll frag you today
Santa Carmack G-P... L'd Quake

GNU/Quake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454847)

Shouldn't that be called GNU/Quake? :)

GPL == Obsolescent Software Repository? (1)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454848)

Does it bother anyone else to see GPL used as a sort of "Goodwill" for software? We also saw this recently with the GPL release of a pretty old version of mySQL.

Don't get me wrong -- it is awesome to have Quake (probably my favorite computer game ever) available in source form. And at least the 'commercial for three years, then GPL' plan has a shorter lifespan than a software patent. But it would be nice to see some commitment (from more than one company) on more current projects. I don't think this is really the point of the GPL.

This should be the basis of an ad campaign (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454849)

Open Sores: Bringing the obsolete to your desktop today!

Re:Thats great but what about other OS's? (1)

Lando (9348) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454850)

These games do not have to be GPL'd, the engine was GPL'd, but doesn't mean that all versions have been GPL'd. John and the rest of the id team can not retroactively remove permissions or add permission to a contract... unless the other person agrees.

Even now, John suggests that everyone should use the GPL'd engine. But if you really want to protect your code, you can contract with id for a different license. As the copywrite owner id can release the engine however they see fit.


Re:NEWS: Richard Stallman Missing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454851)

last i heard, he was riding esr around like a greased pig in the basement where the bazaar [slashdot.org] was held.

thank you.

GPL'ing the source code is great but... (1)

Smeg}{ead (71770) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454852)

...putting out the design documentation would be even better :) As someone who's spent quite a bit of time trying to extend an open source project with little or no docs, I can attest to the fact that availablity of the source code is only half the problem - understanding it is the other half.

With a system so complex and presumably huge as Quake, knowing where to start is going to be quite a challenge (and I don't mean at main(argc, argv)!) A little background knowledge would go a VERY long way - how about it JC?

huge props to id though - leading the industry by example once again.

yes it was (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454854)

Half-Life is a very heavily modified Quake engine. Only 30% of it is the orginal code in half life.

Re:NEWS: Richard Stallman Missing (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454855)

He's probably busy counting all the money he didn't make during all the GNU/Linux IPOs. ;-)


Re:Anybody know how GAS2MASM works? (1)

jflynn (61543) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454857)

Your compiler should provide an option to just run the pre-processor on the gas source, which should output a file with all # constructs removed. Maybe GAS2MASM might work on that file.

Re:Carmack, id and linux (1)

AndyL (89715) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454858)

Didn't Quake1 also have a security back-door? I wonder if it's still in the source or if they took it out.

Re:Alas, Daikatana (1)

Cycon (11899) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454859)

Actually, Daikatana is based on the Quake2 engine, which has not been released yet. Of course neither has Daikatana, so who knows... (c:

Re:Thats great but what about other OS's? (2)

spinkham (56603) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454860)

Nope, westlake is free to keep their stuff propriatary under the license they originally got the code under..
The owner of the code can release the code to as many different people under as many different licenses as he wishes, and the code stays under the licence it is issued under even if it is issued again to someone else...
In one of the text files that comes with the source, this was said:
"If you want to do something commercial and you just can't bear to have your source changes released, we could still negotiate a separate license agreement (for $$$), but I would encourage you to just live with the GPL."
Typical commercial licenses are still availible, if silly at this point..

Re:You know what this means... (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454862)

Plus the opportunity to see just how many ways Id invaded the privacy of their loyal Quake customers, other than the ways which have already been discovered. Well, provided that they didn't rip those sections of code out before releasing it.

Not that I meant to make you paranoid or anything. ;-)


"Extra" karma? (1)

barzok (26681) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454863)

Is there any way we can get folks like John Carmack to have instant karma so that in cases like this, their posts get scored way up automatically? Granted, not everyone deserves it, but people on the level of JohnC or Linus (though I doubt he'd post much here) would be writing stuff worthy of high moderation - why waste moderation points?

Re:Anybody know how GAS2MASM works? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454864)

Yep, you're right, turns out it has to go through the C preprocessor (MSVC with the /EP option) first. That wasn't working on my build because I built GAS2MASM in release mode, whereas the makefile expects GAS2MASM.EXE in the debug directory.


Re:Again? (1)

SyniK (11922) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454865)

crack dot com, www.crack.com, was cracked and the Quake 1 source was stolen. I have it on Archive CD somewhere. It would be interesting to see the differences from the stolen and the released sources.

You're all a bunch of whiners (1)

ShaKti (8485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454866)

This kind of makes me mad. You can't expect them
to change their model, at this point in the game,
so quickly. Be glad that one of the premeire developers on the planet is sharing a bit of his mind with all of us. This is fantastic..to say the least.

Take this code and learn from it instead of being a bunch of babies.

Re:Rock ON (2)

Corrinne Yu (121661) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454867)

Kudos for id and Carmack for setting an example of Open Sourcing game and engine source.

Because of this example, we also have source from many other developers.

A fine Open HW and SW engine from Genesis :


Outrage and Toschlog also opened their Desecent 2 source :

http://descent2.com/ddn/sources/descent2/legal.h tml

Do support Outrage and Descent 3. It is a fine product.

Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
3D Realms/Apogee

Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer

Re:included in distros (1)

seaportcasino (121045) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454868)

This code was worth, what, $10 million 4 years ago?

But now this code is priceless. And it is no longer stagnant; It may grow into what? The greatest game engine of all in the end, just as Linux grew from something simple to something incredible.

Contents of the Readme included with the Source (2)

Cycon (11899) | more than 14 years ago | (#1454869)

This is the complete source code for winquake, glquake, quakeworld, and

The projects have been tested with visual C++ 6.0, but masm is also required
to build the assembly language files. It is possible to change a #define and
build with only C code, but the software rendering versions lose almost half
its speed. The OpenGL versions will not be effected very much. The
gas2masm tool was created to allow us to use the same source for the dos,
linux, and windows versions, but I don't really recommend anyone mess
with the asm code.

The original dos version of Quake should also be buildable from these
sources, but we didn't bother trying.

The code is all licensed under the terms of the GPL (gnu public license).
You should read the entire license, but the gist of it is that you can do
anything you want with the code, including sell your new version. The catch
is that if you distribute new binary versions, you are required to make the
entire source code available for free to everyone.

Our previous code releases have been under licenses that preclude
commercial exploitation, but have no clause forcing sharing of source code.
There have been some unfortunate losses to the community as a result of
mod teams keeping their sources closed (and sometimes losing them). If
you are going to publicly release modified versions of this code, you must
also make source code available. I would encourage teams to even go a step
farther and investigate using public CVS servers for development where

The primary intent of this release is for entertainment and educational
purposes, but the GPL does allow commercial exploitation if you obey the
full license. If you want to do something commercial and you just can't bear
to have your source changes released, we could still negotiate a separate
license agreement (for $$$), but I would encourage you to just live with the

All of the Quake data files remain copyrighted and licensed under the
original terms, so you cannot redistribute data from the original game, but if
you do a true total conversion, you can create a standalone game based on
this code.

I will see about having the license changed on the shareware episode of
quake to allow it to be duplicated more freely (for linux distributions, for
example), but I can't give a timeframe for it. You can still download one of
the original quake demos and use that data with the code, but there are
restrictions on the redistribution of the demo data.

If you never actually bought a complete version of Quake, you might want
to rummage around in a local software bargain bin for one of the originals,
or perhaps find a copy of the "Quake: the offering" boxed set with both
mission packs.

Thanks to Dave "Zoid" Kirsh and Robert Duffy for doing the grunt work of
building this release.

John Carmack
Id Software

Re:Beginning Game Programming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1454870)

for me to poop on!!
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