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Nokia's iPhone, No Seriously

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the phone-in-cheek dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 243

Several readers have written to tell us that Engadget has a look at Nokia's visions for the future. "It was presented during Nokia's GoPlay event this morning as a glimpse into the future of Nokia interface design. Oh, and it's due out next year. When pressed during the Q&A about the striking similarity to the little Cupertino device, Anssi Vanjoki — Nokia's Executive VP & General Manager of Multimedia — said, 'If there is something good in the world then we copy with pride.' Well, ok then."

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I know I can't get a Nissan (2, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405553)

Not even a Stanza...

But maybe I can mod this, and make a trade for a refurbed Segway.

Well, in any case, I'm holding out for the ZunePhone...

Re:I know I can't get a Nissan (5, Funny)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405861)

Well, in any case, I'm holding out for the ZunePhone...

Well sonny Jim, you're in luck! [youtube.com] Get squirting today!

Re:I know I can't get a Nissan (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406401)

Heh, these techies sure can pick a name. I've run out of giggle for the Wii, but squirting still gets me every time.

This is S60 4.0 (5, Informative)

Eugenia Loli (250395) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405563)

This will be based on Symbian's S60 4.0 new version btw, not Linux. It's just the evolution of their S60 smartphone platform.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405727)

And it will be better and cheaper than the iPhone. I don't see why people are being asses about it, Nokia is a company with a lot of great phones. Of course the Apple fanboys will whine, but they always do.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (5, Insightful)

McFadden (809368) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406957)

What pisses me off about the whole thing is this is the usual "everyone's copying Apple" bullshit that gets trotted out whenever someone releases a product which might be considered competition or fulfils a similar role to an Apple product.

Because Apple were categorically the first company ever to release a pocket device with a touchscreen. History starts with them. The whole world of PDAs with network capabilities, picture viewers, mp3 players, web browsing capabilities didn't really happen. Companies like Palm who made small touchscreen devices, looked into the future, predicted the iPhone and copied the concept years before Apple did it first.

And I say that as a Mac Pro owner. Love their computers. Love their gear. Hate their fanbase.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (4, Insightful)

Divebus (860563) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407143)

One Word: Newton.

Yup, history certainly did start with Apple. If cell phones in 1992 didn't weigh 6-10 pounds, it probably would have had that inside as well.

The Newton Irony (4, Interesting)

krbvroc1 (725200) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407265)

Sir Isaac Newton on Intellectual Property: "If I have seen further, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants".


Re:The Newton Irony (5, Interesting)

bjorniac (836863) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407393)

This sounds so great until you realize that he was actually saying it to make fun of Robert Hook's short stature. Newton could be a very petty man in many ways, and he unwillingness to acknowledge Hook (and Leibniz) is the stuff of legend.

Please mod parent up (2, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407179)

If this isn't the truth, I don't know what is.

The funny thing is that Nokia offers several great devices which should compete with the iPhone at half the price, but the iPhone defenders immediately point to the UI as justifying the cost. Once the UI is similar (and perhaps improved) in the Nokia product, what will the defense be then?

Apple didn't invent the smart phone. They didn't invent the MP3 player, or camera. You could argue that the Newton was a huge innovator, except it flopped.

Apple is not above copying the technology of someone else and claiming they invented it. Look at Spaces. I saw an interview with Jobs where he flat out claimed to have invented this huge innovation in multiple desktops, never mind this technology has been around for near a decade. I wouldn't be shocked if Apple's implementation is different, but they certainly don't innovate nearly as much as the fanatics would have you believe.

The primary reason I switched from Windows to Linux as opposed to OS X was how much I am put off by the deception of Apple's marketing, and the ardent OS X fanatics who can't see any reason. Microsoft and Linux also have fanatics no doubt, but I suppose I find the Linux camp the most reasonable.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (4, Informative)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407177)

No, it will be more expensive, have an illogical and clunky user interface, and take 8 firmware revisions before it becomes remotely stable enough to use. (I used to be a nokia fan boy, though I stopped with the N80 which cost me around $750 US when first released) As has now become tradition, nokia will require that every single piece of software be signed before installation, though they will find a way to screw that process up even more than they have now. The operating system will spend more time chatting to the TPM chip than all previous symbian versions put together, DRM will be significantly enhanced and soak up any remaining CPU cycles such that it takes at least 3 seconds for any key press to register, followed by another 4 seconds to update the screen. (And that's on a good day)

Until nokia pull their heads out of their collective arses and ease up on the pointless file system restrictions, symbian 3rd edition was the last straw not only for me, but a good many others going by forum chatter. I will not be buying nokia at all.

The alternatives aren't much better, but at least most have already been broken by 3rd party solutions. BB5 is still hit and miss.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405779)

and will version 4.0 of the S60 platform be any more reliable than its predecessors? I've loved owning my N70 that resets itself every so often for no apparent reason. At least the last firmware upgrade I did seemed to mean it didn't happen as often or decide that there wasn't a sim present when it did.

I find Nokia's OS to be slow and shitty. I can't wait to see what placing more on top has done to it :(

smartphone my ass

Re:This is S60 4.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406013)

The NDA has expired, but I'm still posting anonymously...

In 2002, I worked under contract with Nokia to port a stripped down linux kernel. The project got cancelled, evidently because their lawyers had (unfounded) concerns over the GPL. I offered to get them in touch with one of the FSF lawyers and even suggested using a BSD kernel, but they shelved the whole thing.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (4, Interesting)

222 (551054) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405801)

As an IT professional, I prefer the S60 series of devices over the iPhone hands down. Symbian has a whole slew of applications available for the platform, including Putty, Citrix, and RDP clients. My E61i has built in wifi, and Nokia has released a SCCP client (Cisco VoIP) that registers with my Cisco CallManager cluster as soon as I enter the building. Combine that with their full Intellisync package, and you've got the sexiest work phone ever. I'll grant you that the average cell phone user would have a better time with the iPhone, but for me it's Nokia all the way.

For a more humorous take on what I'm talking about, check out http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ip hone [thebestpag...iverse.net]">this review.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (5, Insightful)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405931)

The customer Apple is targetting thinks Putty is silly, Citrix is a vitamin C supplement, and RDP is a French police department. SCCP and VoIP is just as arcane to them as TCPIP, XSLT, and the DMCA.

It's great that Nokia has such a wonderful phone for you, but isn't it even better that, coming soon, Nokia will have an iPhone-like device that will do everything you just described, AND work like an iPhone too?

Re:This is S60 4.0 (5, Insightful)

catwh0re (540371) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406223)

Judging from my experience with nokia phones. The user interface, performance and construction will still have significant gaps/compromise in order to keep the end price affordable and the handset profitable.(Apple earn their followers by producing thorough and seamless interfaces, this directly contradicts Nokia's business model.)

Plus in the hey-day of MP3 player competition: Apple rolled out new models twice a year. I doubt that the iPhone won't be following the same aggressive product development cycle.

I'm not dissing Nokia for duplicating the iPhone interface (and definitely extending it with their handset experience.) What I am saying however is that Nokia will produce every kind of phone out there in their usual jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none design ethos.

They know that profitability is not about having the best phone out there, but having something comparable and half the price. (I.e consumer choice.)

Additionally one can argue that the two companies work in different markets: Nokia rarely cut out seldom used/confusing features in the fear that they'll strike off a possible buyer. Apple on the other hand will only include the most desired features and reinvent them with their particular experience in usability.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (3, Interesting)

2ms (232331) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406917)

Wow, your perception of Nokia is the complete opposite of mine. In my opinion, and frankly it's a very predominant one in the industry, Nokia is synonymous with the highest quality hardware and most intuitive interfaces in the mobile phone market. This is relative to the other phone companies, of course, not Apple because no one has made a phone anything like the iPhone before and it's too early to see what kind of phone company Apple will prove to be.

Anyway, Nokia phones are generally [i]very[/i] expensive relative to their competition as far as comparisons in terms of features go. It is in ease of use, build quality, aesthetics, and performance that Nokia's have traditionally been admired -- certainly not cost.

It'll be an interesting competition. In a sense, Nokia would be the Apple of traditional mobile phone manufacturers. Indeed, particularly since Nokia has traditional been the innovator in form factors, technologies -- certainly the one cloned rather than the cloner -- I'm actually pleasantly a bit surprised by their shrewdness and humility in simply recognizing the excellence of the Apple phone and quickly taking advantage of the position they have (unusually), of being second and thus, able to copy it ;)

Re:This is S60 4.0 (4, Interesting)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407269)

I'm not sure what fanboy coolaid you are drinking, but nokia have been far from innovative in handset design. It took them years to understand that phones could actually be designed a tad more stylish than the standard house brick format. Sony Ericsson have it right, fast OS and far more intuitive interfaces, better music players, better sound. The only thing symbian has going for it is that it allows 3rd party software, though this is becoming far more convoluted and difficult with every new iteration of the OS.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20407343)

Do those "significant gaps and compromises" that you mention include, for example...

Not allowing people to cut & paste text?
Not supporting video recording?
Not supporting the use of MP3s as ring tones?
Using a battery that won't last more than 24 hours?
Using a non-user-replaceable battery?
Not allowing users to add (and hot-swap) memory cards?
Not giving public access to your APIs and encouraging OSS development?
Not supporting 3G?
Not supporting MMS?

Because, you see... Nokia supports all that in most of their phones. The iPhone doesn't, despite being more expensive. And then there's all the free 3rd party software for Symbian, which you simply cannot get (or develop yourself) for the iPhone.

This page [thebestpag...iverse.net] says it all, really.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406391)

Except try dialing number or texting without looking at the screen. Having actual tactile buttons or keys makes inputing of text a lot easier. As nice as this new Nokia seems to be for browsing photos, it seems like it would suck as a phone.

Phone interface (2, Informative)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407195)

I agree. My favorite interface for a phone seemingly died ages ago, though I hear iPods offer it. I miss the jog-dial. With it, I could easily operate my phone with my left hand while doing something else. I really love my Samsung slider, though I wish the buttons offered even more in the way of tactile feedback. For instance some phones have tiny ridges on some of the numeric keys to act almost as home-keys, so it is easier to avoid mis-dialing a phone number when you're not looking.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406117)

Combine that with their full Intellisync package, and you've got the sexiest work phone ever.

I bet you were one of the people who were complaining about the iPhone lacking a keyboard, but now that someone else makes a touch-screen smart phone, it'll be the sexiest work phone ever.

Now I think Apple forbidding 3rd party development is about the worse move ever, but hey, it's happening anyway. Either way, the important thing isn't what features a phone has, but how well those features are implemented.

Re:This is S60 4.0 (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20407125)

Oh no, not Symbian!

I'm an intern at Nokia Research right now. We all hate Symbian here. Symbian C++ is incredibly bizarre to program for, and this is coming from someone who thinks Haskell is a great language. You can make the phone OS either lock up or reset way too easily. If linux ever makes it into the flagship phones, I think you'll see a lot more innovation out of Nokia, because the developers and researchers will no longer be hobbled.

For example, Dlls are limited to a 1MB heap... unless you declare a new heap, then swap it out with User::SwapHeap. Of course if you call new on one heap and delete on another all hell breaks loose. Why have a hard limit on Dll heap size if you can just code around it?

Don't even get me started on the hacked together perl scripts that constitute the developer's kit (assuming you're a command line + emacs/vi person). Your SDK has to be in the root directory (or subst'd to be such), and your code has to live somewhere on the same drive - ie all projects live under the SDK.

The security model is a nightmare for researchers. You can't make the phone do anything genuinely new without flashing the phone firmware to a dev version, which means nothing you've written can ever be tried out by other people (nobody wants to flash their personal phone to the dev version), which means the idea will never make it out of the lab and dies from lack of exposure.

Bah. Posting anon for obvious reasons :)

Hype (0, Troll)

solafide (845228) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405589)

Why are there two iPhone stories right after each other? Haven't we heard enough about the iPhone yet?

Re:Hype (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405663)

I tend to prefer the former as a Nissan story and this one as a Nokia story.

Apple iPhone? (/me puts fingers in ears, starts singing la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la)

Re:Hype (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405799)

Obviously not yet but I'm on your side this time. Substitute this video for your personal viewing instead of the iPhone story Will it Blend? [youtube.com]

Re:Hype (4, Insightful)

PlusFiveInsightful (1148175) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405875)

Slashdot stories are like digits of pi*. Every so often you'll get two in a row that are the same...

(*digits of pi in base 4)

Transcendental numbers stole my identity!! (1)

AddressException (187785) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406481)

Dude, I saw my SS number in pi once! Yours was in there too!
Transcendental numbers stole my identity!!

well duh (0, Flamebait)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405595)

The only way I'd buy an iPhone-like device is if it wasn't from Apple. I hate their overly-controlling, overpriced, pay for the brand name, turbo-hype, and looks over functionality. Nokia on the other hand just makes phones and they're good.

Re:well duh (3, Funny)

RexRhino (769423) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405665)

I think you are forgetting the N-Gage!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Gage [wikipedia.org]

Re:well duh (1)

Perseid (660451) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405763)

Jeez. And just when he'd finally gotten the evil thing out of his mind you have to go and remind him all over again. Good job.

Something good in the world? (3, Funny)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405597)

I guess that beats everyone else's motto; "If there is something good in the world, aquire dubious IP then SUE SUE SUE!".

9/11 Was An Inside Job (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405609)

9/11 Was An Inside Job

Re:9/11 Was An Inside Job QWZX (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405633)

You mean 9/11 was done by Steve Jobs?

That explains a lot. The box cutters have been known to be very elegantly designed.

Re:9/11 Was An Inside Job QWZX (-1, Offtopic)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405691)

They have only one button, and a featureless slot, in an otherwise blank surface.

Re:9/11 Was An Inside Job QWZX (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20405881)

Why are you guys talking about my band The Box Cutters and thanks I think our music is elegant.

Re:9/11 Was An Inside Job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406487)

Who's the f***er of a mod that tagged this "interesting?"

Like Apple iPhone (0, Troll)

trondotcom (1148541) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405613)

I would say it is like Apple iPhone, very nice features and easy to use but the most difficult thing to use is the telephone feature.

I For One.. (-1, Redundant)

u0berdev (1038434) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405615)

...oh come on, don't make me do it. Someone else take it this time...

Wait a second... (0, Flamebait)

BlackTriangle (581416) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405625)

Are you blaming a large corporation for being honest?

Some companies can't win.

Slashdot thinks that Google and Apple always will. Microsoft, never.


Technology demo... (1)

msimm (580077) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405637)

I read the article before seeing it here. Nokia says they were displaying there touch screen technology. The fact they chose a hardware platform that looked...familiar is simply been reason for a few chuckles. So it's an OS thing more then a hardware thing. They probably could have done it with a less obvious knock-off, but I'm sure they needed something fast with the right screen size to display the feature.

Touchscreen-only sucks (1)

MacDork (560499) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405905)

Yeah, well, I hope their final production model isn't touchscreen-only. No physical buttons means no tactile interface. I know that doesn't sound like a big deal, but I realized there was a lot I was taking for granted when I actually owned a touchscreen phone. Slick design shouldn't trump usability.

Fair enough, but I prefer... (0, Offtopic)

Aphrika (756248) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405671)

The HTC Touch [expansys.com] - nice interface, small form factor. Okay, so it's not made by Mr Jobs and Co, but it's a damn nice piece of kit. Works with corporate email (read Exchange), has a decent camera, no network lock-in, and it's cheaper.

Yes, the Apple fanboys will say it's Microsoft-based, but the fact is; it's a damn fine piece of kit - oh yeah, and you can write proper software apps for it using .NET, not some poxy Javascript web-based thing...

Turn it on its head (4, Interesting)

fishthegeek (943099) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405711)

I'm actually pretty excited to see iPhone features make their way into non Apple products. Sure it is blatant idea theft. Sure Nokia is leeching whatever "coolness" they can from Apples form factor. Who cares? We have PCs that aren't proprietary because of blatant idea theft. Hell, we really wouldn't have spinning cubes in Linux were it not for ideas presented in other operating systems. Noah Wylie, while playing Steve Jobs said that "good artists copy, great artists steal". I do not mind getting quality (if Apple like) features at a lower price than Apple is willing to offer.

what you talking bout, willis? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406249)

iPhone "features"? Like what? A touchscreen? oh geez, thats never been done before. A phone? Wow, had to wait for apple to do that. able to play music? Thank god apple finally brought us that never before seen function. What would we do without apple?

Re:Turn it on its head (5, Insightful)

mrjatsun (543322) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406251)

> Sure it is blatant idea theft

You forget, Apple is leveraging decades of ideas in cell phone technology for their product that they never thought of. Sure they have a lot of great new ideas, but I don't see other folks using their ideas as stealing. No more than I see Apple building a cell phone as stealing.

big deal (1)

jswigart (1004637) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405725)

It'll live or die from the software it supports. Maybe if they open it up to developers more it will pressure apple to as well.

Can't anyone see it's a joke/hoax? (2, Insightful)

TibbonZero (571809) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405765)

Umm, someone just took a video editing program, and replaced the Apple with Nokia. People on Slashdot AND Digg seem to not be picking up on this yet.
It's clearly a poke at Nokia saying, "They are simply going to rip off Apple after the iPhone, and we think they'd go this far". Come on people! Apple DID file a handful of patents on this.

Re:Can't anyone see it's a joke/hoax? (1)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406239)

Umm, someone just took a video editing program, and replaced the Apple with Nokia. People on Slashdot AND Digg seem to not be picking up on this yet.
  It's clearly a poke at Nokia saying, "They are simply going to rip off Apple after the iPhone, and we think they'd go this far". Come on people! Apple DID file a handful of patents on this.
The tag line at the end was good though. Good for a laugh.

Re:Can't anyone see it's a joke/hoax? (3, Informative)

bob_dinosaur (544930) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406505)

It's no hoax.

Nokia had a huge launch event in London on the 29th to announce a US 3G version of the N95, the N81, the new version of the N-Gage platform, the Ovi brand (maps, games, & other services), as well as to demonstrate the touchscreen S60 interface mentioned in this article.

Re:Can't anyone see it's a joke/hoax? (4, Informative)

Nazlfrag (1035012) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406693)

No, this is legit, it's coming from the London GoPlay launch event. There's a pic of it from a live blog here [thenokiablog.com].

Re:Can't anyone see it's a joke/hoax? (1)

Peeet (730301) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407095)

Actually, it looks more like Engadget jumped the gun. Ryan Block from Engadget says:

Yeah, about that Nokia iPhone -- they were trying to demo touchscreen Symbian S60 [engadget.com]

So yeah, we talked to Nokia today about that iPhone knockoff of theirs. Turns out they totally neglected to mention that they were trying to show off the iPhone-esque software, not the iPhone-esque hardware. The concept they were driving at is they want to take Symbian S60 into the wonderful world of touchscreen, and that kind of input system they demoed could show up on any form factor device. Why they decided to show off said S60 touchscreen software on a total ripoff of the iPhone (and not, say, on some mockup N-series device) is a little less clear, but it certainly made for some hilarious fodder this morning. Seriously though, don't forget to check the video, you can almost hear the soothing sounds of the iPhone ad mandolin playing.

Probably a marketing ploy (3, Insightful)

timmyf2371 (586051) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405867)

I'm not so sure that the finished model will end up looking like this; the European iPhone launch is seemingly due to happen shortly, and it makes perfect sense for Nokia to remind people that there is something better just around the corner.

Nokia's high-end products have always been head and shoulders above the rest. Its current top of the range models are arguably better than the iPhone, possibly excepting the design and touchscreen. When Nokia do launch this device, or a similar one, I've no doubt it will support technologies such as HSDPA (3.5G), multimedia messages, uPnP media sharing, third party (unsigned) applications and all the multimedia functions us Europeans have come to expect from Nokia's "multimedia computers".

There is no doubt in my mind that Apple are the proverbial Rolls Royce of desktop computing, however I'm not too sure of their credentials in the global mobile telephony market - I just don't believe they "get it".

Re:Probably a marketing ploy (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406227)

> When Nokia do launch this device, or a similar one, I've no doubt it will support technologies ... third party (unsigned) applications

You're kidding, surely?

They don't support that now, intentionally. I know developers hate the whole SymbianSigning thing, but are you really suggesting that they'll listen to developers and stop that somehow?

Re:Probably a marketing ploy (1)

timmyf2371 (586051) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406287)

I don't claim to know the full details of how the signed applications thing works, but the three Symbian devices I've used on a regular basis (N70, N80, 6120) allow me to run unsigned applications. They throw up a warning message informing me of the risks involved in running and installing unsigned applications, but once I click past that I haven't encountered any problems in actually running them. The Symbian OS also supports standard Java Midlets (which run on the vast majority of new phones) and there has never been an issue with these either.

Re:Probably a marketing ploy (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406775)

> N70 [forumnokia.mobi], N80 [forumnokia.mobi], 6120 [forumnokia.mobi]

The N70 is 2nd edition device, so that will run unsigned applications, but the other two are 3rd edition and won't. Of course, I'm talking about native applications (ie written in C++), not java/etc.

This has been the main problem for developers targeting S60 3rd edition. Even freeware needs to be signed (a slow, slow, slow process). You can sign them yourself, as a developer, so they'll run only on your own phone (or a small selection) but they've been cracking down on that over the last month or so since (shock) it's only supposed to be for developers.

Perhaps there's some small subset of applications that will run unsigned (don't use any capabilities, for example), but nothing useful.

Apple iPhone Patents? (2, Insightful)

elysian1 (533581) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405889)

Didn't Apple file a bunch of patents related to the iPhone and specifically the touch screen?

How long before we see Apple's lawyers get on Nokia for patent infringement?

Re:Apple iPhone Patents? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406127)

How long before we see Apple's lawyers get on Nokia for patent infringement?
That'd be a really long time. I don't think anyone, Apple least of all, believes that the iPhone wouldn't accidentally tread on at least one Nokia patent. A lawsuit would no doubt result in a codified arrangement that's otherwise equivalent to the current tacit agreement. Basically, a cross-licensing agreement that allows both companies to use both sets of patents.

It's really not worth it for either company to spend the money on lawyers.

Re:Apple iPhone Patents? (1)

e4g4 (533831) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406839)

Actually, I believe Apple bought the company that designed the touch-screen (and thus the patents for said technology). But touch-screen's aren't new. One detail I did not see in the video was multi-touch - I think Nokia will have a hard time getting around the patents for that (for now).

There's copying... (3, Insightful)

cryptochrome (303529) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405903)

and then there's carbon-copying. Which this is. It doesn't just resemble the iPhone or steal ideas from it - everything I saw in the technology demo was EXACTLY the same.

So not dubious - shameless. Yeesh.

Re:There's copying... (1)

mce (509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406253)

So what do you want instead? Do you want Apple to patent, trademark, copyright, and encrypt, the hell out of the entire iAlphabet range of potential products and how they might work just so nobody can copy them? Why are patents used to prevent copying of innovative ideas judged to be bad when they are owned by certain companies, while copying a great idea is judged to be bad when the item being copied was engineered by some "holy grail" company or nerd god?

For $DEITY's sake, what Nokia may not be very original or creative, but if Apple didn't patent their iPhone properly, there's nothing wrong with it. If Apple did patent it properly, Nokia wouldn't have copied or would/will be facing a law suit. Note that if Nokia found a way around any relevant existing Apple patents, then: 1) Apple didn't patent properly after all, despite having their patents; 2) Nokia has been more creative in finding a way around the patents than a very first look at their phone suggests and hence should get the credit for it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: one can't have one's cookie and eat it as well.

Yawn... (2, Insightful)

CRobin (20777) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405915)

Come on what is the big deal about this thing. The iPhone has a touch-screen interface, which is really its great innovation. Nokia has made a touch-screen interface to their OS, the iPhone has shown its a great way to have a small communication device with a small footprint. What do you expect for a touch-screen phone other one big display? Granted this will probably be much better in many ways for, more hackable, more bleeding edge hardware/features, but its just the inevitable, big screen with few buttons, buttons are wasted space on very small form-factor devices. Touch screens are where little phones with lots of usability are going.

High-end phone interfaces lapping Microsoft (2, Interesting)

hattig (47930) | more than 6 years ago | (#20405953)

Sometimes I think the discussions on Slashdot are pretty dumb, but that Engadget discussion is a whole order of magnitude more dumb. I guess it's because it involves Apple.

It's not the hardware that makes this an iPhone clone, it's the look and feel of the interface. Hell from that poor quality video they posted even the UI colours seem to be the same.

Also Apple have patents on the UI behaviour up the wazoo.

On the other hand Nokia won't lock their device to particular networks, make it unlockable, and sell it with 2G EDGE only. On the other hand, it isn't out yet. If this is as early as Apple's previews, then Nokia won't have anything on the market for at least 6 months.

What this does show is the market moving on from rather static 2D PDA-style interfaces. Apple are a bit player right now, but Nokia are pretty major. This puts pressure on Microsoft, who have just released their WM2006 product - a classic 2D PDA-like OS, when the competition is moving to slicker, smoother, easier-to-use and intuitive interfaces that are far more function centric than application centric.

Nokia: More mature interface with features and market experience vs. historical cruft to deal with, and Symbian.

Apple: No cruft to deal with, but lack market experience and features, which will be made up by system updates possibly. Very small marketshare currently, US-only. Too restrictive right now.

Microsoft: Let's hope that some of our OEMs develop fancy interfaces on top of our base OS. Very flexible. ActiveSync nightmare.

Re:High-end phone interfaces lapping Microsoft (2, Insightful)

Jeremy_Bee (1064620) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407045)

Interesting analysis but your (rather strong) bias is showing.

There is not a Nokia phone made today that the Apple iPhone doesn't blow out off the water "value-proposition-wise" with it's first iteration. The very bankruptcy of Nokia's idea mill is shown by the very subject of this thread; the announcement that they are going to try to copy the iPhone.

What do you mean by "Nokia's more mature interface"?

Isn't that just spin for "old-fashioned?" Also the iPhone runs OS-X a variant of Unix. I think that Unix has more cred for being "mature" in all the ways that actually count. It's underpinnings are rock solid and mostly open. What we are really talking about here in terms of interface, is the user interaction layer and I think Apple clearly has far more experience in that department than Nokia.

Apple lacks market experience?

Then how did they work that deal where the phone is no longer controlled by the network provider, and get a cut of fees as well? Apple got both the market, and the deal that phone companies like Nokia have been trying for their whole lives. In one stroke. Apple's financial's and market savy are not only rock solid, they are the envy of many tech companies.

You are trying to use that same old argument wherein Apple is supposed to be up against some kind of juggernaut and therefore doomed to fail, but the truth is actually the reverse. Nokia is up against the juggernaut, not Apple.

You also seem to think that just because Nokia is on top at the moment that they have some kind of magic beans or something. As recently as a few years ago, Motorola was the handset of choice. They made similar phones with similar interfaces to Nokia's current offerings. There is no reason to suspect that Nokia's phones, or their new interface will be anything special, especially when the best they can do is (possibly) offer up a luke-warm copy of an OS over a year after it comes out.

Feature for feature, Nokia may make the top feature phones at the moment, but they don't necessarily make what the market wants. You are mistaking Nokia's top of the line, hugely expensive "everything but the kitchen sink" products for products that actually sell well and are desired by the market. The majority of Nokia's sales are bottom of the market crud phones. I know because I have one myself.

Ask yourself what happens when Apple releases it's "low market" iPhone that you can use on any network. What happens when Nokia finally comes out with this phone next year and multiple versions of Apple's iPhones are already out all around the world? I would not bet on Nokia coming out with anything that will interfere with the huge momentum Apple has built here.

PS - what is "cruft"? Is that American for "crud" or "crap" or "stuff"?

Re:High-end phone interfaces lapping Microsoft (1)

totally bogus dude (1040246) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407395)

PS - what is "cruft"? Is that American for "crud" or "crap" or "stuff"?

All of the above, pretty much.

From Jargon File (4.3.1, 29 Jun 2001) [jargon]: cruft /kruhft/ [very common; back-formation from {crufty}]
  1. n. An unpleasant substance. The dust that gathers under your bed is cruft; the TMRC Dictionary correctly noted that attacking it with a broom only produces more.
  2. n. The results of shoddy construction.
  3. vt. [from `hand cruft', pun on `hand craft'] To write assembler code for something normally (and better) done by a compiler (see {hand-hacking}).
  4. n. Excess; superfluous junk; used esp. of redundant or superseded code.
  5. [University of Wisconsin] n. Cruft is to hackers as gaggle is to geese; that is, at UW one properly says "a cruft of hackers".

Talk about "strong bias"... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20407409)

You've probably never used a Nokia Communicator, an N800 or even an N70, let alone a high-end Qtek PDA (ex., Qtek 9000), right? Thought so.

The iPhone might look very impressive in the USA, where cell phones seem to have been stuck in the early 90s (your theory that Motorola was ever "the cellphone of choice" confirms this), but it's a joke compared to any modern european or asian smartphone. Why do you think Apple is limiting it to the US? Because that's the only place where they'll be able to sell something so underpowered for such a high price. Sure, there are some Apple fanbois in Europe too, but there's also real competition (phones come unlocked, and there are lots of operators). The iPhone needs to go through at least three iterations until it is ready to be sold in Europe and Asia, and the competition (Nokia, Qtek, Sony-Ericsson, etc.) aren't exactly sitting still.

Yes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406003)

When the iPhone came out, I knew it would only be a matter of time before competitors start knocking it off. Just wait a year or so, and you'll be able to get something that functions even better than the iPhone for a much cheaper price.

Re:Yes! (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406633)

something that functions even better than the iPhone for a much cheaper price.

Just wait a year or so, and you'll be able to get that from Apple.


Engadget called (1, Redundant)

cyberfunk2 (656339) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406215)

They want their story back.... the headline's even ripped.. come on guys. "http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone- no-seriously/"

Re:Engadget called (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406811)

They want their story back.... the headline's even ripped.. come on guys. "http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone- no-seriously/"
'If there is something good in the world then we copy with pride.'

Re:Engadget called (2, Insightful)

lordlod (458156) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406855)

Would that be the same Engadget that is mentioned in the first line of the story. The same Engadget that is linked to?
While copying virtually the entire story into the summary seems a bit much I don't really think your statement is profound or informative. Thanks for the link though, it would have been useful if I'd missed the great big blue one in the article.

Copying is OK (1)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406273)

'If there is something good in the world then we copy with pride.'

Remember, kids. Copying someone's "intellectual property" is A-OK if you're a mega-corporation, but a crime if you're trading MP3's in your basement. Got that? Good.

Re:Copying is OK (1)

felipekk (1007591) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406397)

The analogy is incorrect. It would only be correct if instead of copying the MP3 file, the kid would record his own music that sounded REALLY close to the original one.
It is very hard to correctly make an analogy between a material thing and a series of bits...

The sad, sad, sad truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20406333)

How sad is it that Nokia, Samsung, etc., like Microsoft, could have innovated, but instead, have to be dragged to the party. So much for Nordic design skills! Why is it left to one company, and one CEO, to drive mainstream tech innovation and clean interface design? Apple's patents and superior UI abilities will ensure the iPhone copies are nothing more than adequate, and as we've seen with Microsoft, adequate is considered good enough for the majority of the world.

Why is everyone so hard on iPhone (5, Insightful)

or-switch (1118153) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406565)

No product, especially something as personal as your phone, is going to satisfy everyone, and they're not designed to, which is why there are so many to choose from. The iPhone does what it does, and it does it reasonably well (though yeah, the phone feature is the hardest to use). It's a consumer entertainment device so why are so many people hard on it for business. If something else is better for you (you need SSH, Microsoft exchange, etc.) get a phone that has those features. If you can't live without a keyboard, get a phone with a physical keyboard.

Frankly, for the last two years I've kept a Razr and a video iPod crammed in my pocket, and I'm happy to have one device, that also gives me internet when I need it, in a single device. I wish it had 3G and some other things, but it's also a first generation device. The first iPod kinda sucked too, but not so bad it didn't make a big impact.

Regarding price, AT&T, and other 'problems' people talk about, get over it. If T-mobile is better for you, go with 'em. Nobody is forcing you to use an iPhone if you don't want to.

By analogy: When I was shopping for a car recently I looked at cool 50K sports car that only seats 2. Well, I drive around with friends a lot and a 4 seater is much more my speed, and I got one with lots of power for about $30K. I could say, as some do with the iPhone, "It only seats two and costs $50K! I can get a 4 seater for half that." So get the freakin' 4 seater.

The iPhone is clearly a luxury device designed for a certain market, but not all markets. Is all the griping over this to protect a moron from going into and Apple store, dropping $600 and saying, "WAit, this isn't what I wanted at all." People aren't that dumb, and if they are and have that kind of money, let 'em. Frankly, no cell phone could be perfect, especially with this group. Someone did an analysis on Slashdot I think of the 'ideal' mobile device and then proved it couldn't be made by any one manufacturer because of patent and licensing issues. Go get the phone with the features you want. I showed my iPhone to my parents and they said, "Hmm, we just need a phone that makes phone calls." So I helped them find a simple phone with big buttons because that's what they needed.

Or is all the griping because you secretly want an iPhone and are frustrated because you can't justify the cost because it doesn't have a feature you truly need. Hmm. I think a lot of the bitching about the AT&T lockout is becuase people still have contracts they can't cancel and really want one. Life's not fair (and yeah, as an AT&T customer for some time now they kinda suck, but what tradeoffs are you willing to make?) IF you're not willing, nobody is forcing you to.

Re:Why is everyone so hard on iPhone (0, Offtopic)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407247)

By analogy: When I was shopping for a car recently I looked at cool 50K sports car that only seats 2. Well, I drive around with friends a lot and a 4 seater is much more my speed, and I got one with lots of power for about $30K. I could say, as some do with the iPhone, "It only seats two and costs $50K! I can get a 4 seater for half that." So get the freakin' 4 seater.

DING DING DING DING DING! Bad car analogy alert!

It's all marketing! It's more like a hay truck with an oil leak - sometimes a hassle but often worth it because you can earn money with it. Except on Wednesdays, because the hay wholesaler is closed, but the owner has a real cute daughter with red hair who likes to dress up in pink and listen to Def Tones. But that's different than the pink Cadillac SUV driven by a 30-something Mom who wears star-shaped sunglasses with glitter.

Uh, wait... What was the point again?

(reads again)

looks like an iPhone (0, Flamebait)

scolbert (1122737) | more than 6 years ago | (#20406797)

Looks like an iPhone but won't work like an iPhone. There is a simplicity to Apple's iPhone design that gives you the impression that its easy to copy. Copying a feature here or there is not the way to copy the iPhone (which is more than a sum of its part or UI elements). Man I love my iPhone. Who can improve on it... Apple. Period.

Sammy / my Apple iPhone [personafile.com]

Nokia Camera Phones (1)

GregPK (991973) | more than 6 years ago | (#20407079)

I think Nokia should continue focusing on building out thier camera phones. They had a very good thing going with it. Just needed to increase the reliability a bit to fix the poweroff issues.

Reality distortion field (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20407185)

Nokia has had touch-sensitive smartphones / PDAs for ages. The same goes for Qtek and a lot of other Asian and European brands. I was always amazed at the success the Blackberry had in the USA (by European / Asian standards it seems like something out of the early 90s) until I went to the USA and saw what crappy sell phones you people have been living with. No wonder the iPhone was such a big deal in the US.

But the fact is, pretty much any Qtek PDA or Nokia "tablet" cellphone beats it in specifications, features, battery life and audio quality (and they're unlocked by default, and cheaper). The only interesting thing the iPhone adds is the multi-touch screen (you still can't type on it quickly, though).

The Nokia model shown in this article isn't very different from models they've had for over 3 years now (and some Asian brands have had for 5).
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