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Are Game Publishers Late To the (Wii and DS) Game?

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the better-late-than-never dept.

Nintendo 211

simoniker writes "A new 'Analyze This' feature on Gamasutra examines analysts' views on the rise of Nintendo's Wii and DS, and how well game publishers have reacted to it, with Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter commenting: 'It's hard to criticize anyone for putting too much faith in the PS3, as most [publishers] haven't created "cutting edge" titles yet for that platform. Most of the PS3 titles so far have been perennial titles, like Madden, Tony Hawk, etc ... I'd say that most failed to capitalize on the DS and Wii opportunity. The exception on the DS side is THQ, which has made every game it can for the platform. On the Wii side, Ubisoft took a big chance by making ten games for the [Wii] launch window, and it has performed very well, so far. I think that the others will catch up no later than early next year.'"

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Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (5, Insightful)

netsavior (627338) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415403)

The Wii and to a lesser extent the DS almost require innovative gameplay. The result is that you can't just make a game with slightly bigger levels, more guns, and slightly better graphics and call it "new".

The platform itself is calling for something different, and different takes time.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415461)

The Wii and to a lesser extent the DS almost require innovative gameplay.
Unless you can make a bunch of ports of games for Windows that use the mouse or games for Windows Mobile that use the stylus.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (3, Interesting)

tim_darklighter (822987) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415567)

The result is that you can't just make a game with slightly bigger levels, more guns, and slightly better graphics and call it "new".
And New Super Mario Bros. is the name of one of the (if not *the*) best selling game on the DS. ;)

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1, Redundant)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416003)

And New Super Mario Bros. also makes almost zero use of the DS's most innovative feature: the touch screen. It uses both screens, but I can't think of any times it used the touch screen during regular gameplay. Anyways, I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros., but I believe the best DS games are the games that really use the touch screen well: Kirby Canvas Curse, Trauma Center, and Elite Beat Agents really come to mind. I know you were just pointing out something ironic and funny, but some developers are really doing innovative things.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415651)

shut up you fuckin xbot fanboy M$ M$ M$

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415717)

"The Wii and to a lesser extent the DS almost require innovative gameplay. "

Moving control from onces thumb to ones wrist and replacing button presses with waggle movements...is 'innovative'...

Gotta love the lectures from the Wiibots lecturing the world about 'innovation' when their platform is nothing but a shitpile of crappy little minigames with waggle bolted on.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415937)

Wait wait wait...you are compaining about "waggle" being "bolted on" to the Wii?

I suppose you have never heard of this gaming system from a company called Sony. See, at first, this gaming system (known as the "PS3") was shown with this odd-looking boomerang-type controller...and for some strange reason, shortly after Nintendo revealed their "waggle stick"...this company Sony suddenly had a controller that kinda did the same thing!

So here we have Nintendo with a "waggle-stick"...Sony, the "winner" of the 6th-gen consoles (in terms of sales) trying to copy who was the "loser" of the 6th-gen consoles (in terms of sales), and then you have Microsoft sitting there going "You are both fuckin nuts, we did that shit 8 years ago on the PC....it's not that great"

Basically, according to you, Microsoft is in the right on this one and Sony/Nintendo have been licking the wrong frogs...got it. You should be more clear next time, then we wouldn't have to have this lengthy recap.

For the record, I have the Wii, PS3, and 360...while I enjoy them all, the PC still fsking rapes them.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

fotbr (855184) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415957)

You know, I'll take fun minigames and golf on the Wii over $FPSofTheWeek on any other platform.

That said, I have a 360 for the one game that made it worth it for me -- Forza2. I *might* buy some other racing games for it, but I haven't seen a single game that I would consider "must have" thats a PS3 exclusive.

I'm a fan of fun, and my idea of Fun doesn't involve FPSs. If that keeps me from being a "hardcore" or "real" gamer, so be it.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416007)

If you don't like FPS, that's ok...there is still a lot of fun on the 360 to be had...Viva Pinata, Dead Rising, Oblivion, Rockstar Table Tennis...don't forget Mass Effect comes out soon and Fable 2 comes out next year...there are a lot more, just gotta look.

As far as the PS3 goes, in my mind it will be worth getting one when God of War 3 comes out...the games I have for PS3 are OK, but I think God of War 3 is when I'm going to start loving the PS3 as a GAMING CONSOLE...cause right now, it's doing everything BUT gaming in my home theater.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

tbannist (230135) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416323)

If I found mini-games fun, I'd be playing Minesweeper instead of posting to slashdot.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417097)

If I found mini-games fun, I'd be playing Minesweeper instead of posting to slashdot.

You know, following that logic, I think I can prove that you find nothing fun other than posting on Slashdot.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416217)

Shush! You're going to ruin the dreams of the Nbots that there is some sort of amazing gameplay just waiting to be unlocked in the stupid little Wiimote.

No one wants to think they were dumb enough to fall for stupid marketing hype...

Re:Do when game companies have to innovate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415881)

Why? Why can't they just port a few games for use w/ the classic controller. The graphics don't suck at all. I would buy a Wii if it had any good fighting games besides the gamecube version of soul caliber 2.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (5, Insightful)

Jesterboy (106813) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415891)

...Which can be both a good thing and a bad thing. I bought a DS pretty soon after it came out, before the DS Lite was announced. All my friends made fun of me because about the only thing to play at that time was Nintendogs and several mini-game collections. Eventually, good games did start coming out, but they would still have this sort of tacked on "innovation" due to the touch screen or microphone. Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, for instance. While a wonderful game, its inclusion of touch screen mechanics did nothing to improve the gameplay. However, because it was coming out on the DS they "had to innovate".

Which is what bothers me a little bit about most developers approach to both the Wii and DS. Since the DS, everyone has been espousing how their unique additional features will open up developer creativity, which it certainly has. However, many developers seem to take it as since the additional functionality exists, they must use it. In my opinion, this sort of thinking hampers creativity, and leads to the "mini-game-itis" that both consoles have had in their conception; it's one of the easiest things to do that uses all that functionality. Certain game types just weren't made for the Wiimote's unique functionality, and they don't have to use it. I don't really what to play a 2D fighter by waving the Wiimote all over the place, so please don't force me to.

I think Nintendo notices this, and that's why they've released peripherals like the classic controller for the Wii. I just hope that developers realize this too: innovation is great and all, but not at the detriment of gameplay.

Re:Duh, when game companies have to innovate.. (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416353)

The Wii and to a lesser extent the DS almost require innovative gameplay.

I'd trade innovation for polish. Innovative games are usually gimmicky, unpolished, and often tiresome. The very few that are both polished and innovative tend to shine but they are outnumbered by the number of games that are innovative and crap.

EA (1)

r6_jason (893331) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415459)

Thus far I have not seen NCAA nor Nascar for the Wii, despite the fact that both the Xbox 360 and the Wii are pretty much even in total number of consoles in the wild. There may be other games in the works for the Wii, but, considering Nascar's fan base and the fact that there is now a Wii sponsored car in Nascar, a Nascar game would be very welcome, even if it does blow pretty hard on the Xbox 360.

Re:EA (1)

hardburn (141468) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415533)

How dare they let a Japanese company into NASCAR!

Re:EA (1)

H8X55 (650339) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415613)

Toyota is in NASCAR now...

Re:EA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415871)

The comparison of the Wii vs. 360 is a pretty laughable one. The 360 had a years lead, and has lost it. The Wii flattly appeals to more people. NASCAR really hasn't had very many good titles associated with it imo. Any company that makes a NASCAR game is largely just trying to captalize on the name. Anyone whos serious about driving games will generally deal with games like Wangon Midnight Racing, and Grand Turismo. Both of which are made by Japanese companies who've spent much time, and various itterations of driving games to get it right. NOT American companies who seem to start from scratch every time.

Re:EA (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416077)

Ever hear of (best-selling) Project Gotham Racing? Fucking Sony moron.

Re:EA (1)

LokiSnake (795582) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416685)

Actually, I personally think a better choice in a serious racing game to be Forza 2. The Gran Turismo games tend to look pretty, and drive okay, but the driving mechanics some how wash out each car's feel and personality. I loved it when I first tried Forza, drove a Porsche 911, and actually *felt* the weight in the back of the car. That definitely won me over as a driver.

Re:EA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416247)

And a hockey game!

Both NHL 08 and NHL2k8 are coming out for the 360 and the PS3, but not the Wii. There hasn't been any hockey game for a Nintendo platform since NHL 06 for Gamecube.

I want to stickhandle, deke, and shoot with the Wiimote. Instead, I wait and watch as almost every other sport comes to the Wii, but no hockey game announced yet.

I want my mix games (0)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415539)

Games which can use the DS as a hybrid controller hehehe, that'd rock.

Re:I want my mix games (2, Informative)

shoptroll (544006) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415729)

Taken a look at Pokemon Battle Revolution?

Re:I want my mix games (1)

Neo_piper (798916) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416921)

I did, and then I cried...
I have to say that it features less polish then even the first "Import your Pokemon Game" Pokemon Stadium for the N64.
Other than Importing my critters from the game and a few purchasable uploads there is NIL interaction with the Cartridge or DS.
Huge letdown.
The only area that even pretended to try was with the announcer being SLIGHTLY less repetitive than other installments.
All in all I have to say it was step backwards to lower expectations to where releasing Wii Port/Facelift of Coliseum/XD would look innovative.
</bitter>

Re:I want my mix games (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417155)

Sadly, that game was the biggest disappointment I've seen from Nintendo in this current generation. It's absolutely pointless without a DS and Pokemon cartridge. All it really does is allow you to redo some battles on the tv.

The biggest mistake (3, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415555)

That publishers have made in reference to the Wii are most certainly the following:

No Star Wars light sabre-centric game out (or even officially announced, for that matter), no type of Gardening game (think about it...what would sell to grandmas around the country better than a Garden simulator using the Wiimote?)...etc, etc, etc.

Really, the possibilities are VERY large indeed when it comes to the Wii's control sceme, despite its lack of power. I know these things aren't put together overnight, but developers really need to start pushing stuff like that out soon, before the Wii commotion dies down.

Re:The biggest mistake (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415707)

They have announced Lego Star Wars the compelte saga for the wii which has lightsaber control via the wiimote.

They have also announced Harvest Moon for the wii which has you using the wiimote as you would use gardening tools.

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415733)

I...I...::asplode::

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416159)

Sorry, but it sounds like it's just waggle==attack, like in Twilight Princess. We'll have to wait for Jedi Knight IV

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416553)

::sniffles:: Mr. Bubbles!!!!!!!! ..... Oh.....wrong game.

Re:The biggest mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416203)

before the Wii commotion dies down.

You're full of shit. I still play RPG's on the SNES and it is 16 years old.

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416243)

So do I...the ladyfriend and I are actually going through Secret of Mana (or Secret of Mana 2, if you are a purist) and I just finished going through Secret of Evermore for the umpteenth time...what I meant by commotion though was it flying off the shelves nearly as quickly as they can get it on the shelves. It's still fresh and at the forefront of consumer's minds...

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

tbannist (230135) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416361)

Why would someone want a "garden simulator" when they could have a garden?

Re:The biggest mistake (2, Funny)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416389)

Why would someone want to play an interstellar bounty hunter when they can just be one? It's less of a hassle and you don't have to do it everyday.

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416425)

Well, like I said...it would be geared towards the "senior citizen" bracket...think of it...a nice old grandmother who loves to garden but can't because she has some kind of messed up physical problem that prevents her from doing yardwork...now she can at least do the same motions without all the stress and pain.

Not to mention those that have condos/apartments.

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

Altus (1034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416571)


why would anyone play "guitar hero" when they could just get a guitar?

Re:The biggest mistake (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416819)

Because a decent guitar costs at least an order of magnitude more than Guitar Hero does, perhaps?

Re:The biggest mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20417425)

I bought a new low end Samick guitar to learn on with a small amp for $100. The quality is actually pretty good for what I paid. No, it doesn't have high end pickups to produce the best sound, but the action and fretboard feel pretty good. I can disassemble it and replace the pickups if I really wanted to. I can also buy expansions to produce new effects as my ability and desire grows. I also get to actually learn how to play any song I want or make up my own.

Guitar hero 2 is $80. That's hardly an order of magnitude.

DS and Wii are at different stages in their lives (5, Insightful)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415557)

The DS has been out almost three years, the Wii for less than a year. I would agree that the first years for both consoles were similar, the best games were first-party titles developed internally by Nintendo. This is for a number of reasons (including that Nintendo developed games are generally very good), but I think the biggest reason is that each of the consoles did something so different, third-parties were playing the wait-and-see game. By now, most companies have seen the potential of both platforms, but the major difference between the DS and the Wii is that the great DS third party games have been out for a while now and they're still coming. The great third-party games for the Wii really haven't arrived.

Look at the DS, some of the great third party games are Trauma Center (six months after release), Phoenix Wright (~year after release though a remake with extra content), and Meteos (~year after release). I can't think of a really great third party game for the DS that was available at release, except maybe Castlevania, but definitely not one that took advantage of the DS's unique capabilities.

It took a while for the DS to catch on for developers, and it's the same sequence for the Wii. This was a mistake for many publishers, besides Ubisoft which took a "gamble" with the Wii and I guess it paid off. The development time for a console game is probably longer than that for a handheld, so we're waiting a little longer for those great third party games. I'm sure they'll come though.

Re:DS and Wii are at different stages in their liv (1)

shoptroll (544006) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415653)

Agreed. Conversely, look at the number of titles that either completely jumped from PS3 to XBox360 or went cross-platform.

Back on topic, this is pretty much the main reason for this generation's drought of games for the Nintendo platform. Everyone thought the PS3 was going to emerge from November the champion and the Wii was gonna be left in the dust. Thus, publishers and developers positioned themselves for the PS3 and put significantly less focus on the Wii. Ubisoft, for some reason, took the contrarian route and have been doing pretty well since then. Everyone else is playing catchup at this point.

Re:DS and Wii are at different stages in their liv (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415859)

But there's no games for the PS3 Either. I think most publishers banked on the 360 because they already had a lot of units in the wild when the other two were released. I think there was a lot of hesitation towards the PS3 because of the high cost, but also because it's hard and expensive to develop for.

Re:DS and Wii are at different stages in their liv (1)

merreborn (853723) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416525)

the best games were first-party titles developed internally by Nintendo. This is for a number of reasons (including that Nintendo developed games are generally very good)


Nintendo also took a long time to get dev kits out to 3rd party developers, at least for the Wii. Nintendo probably had at least a one year head start on any 3rd parties.

Yes. Obviously. (1)

igotmybfg (525391) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415585)

This question has been asked and answered. Look at the numbers of marquee games out by publishers, by platform, vs. the sales numbers for the Wii and DS. This is not news.

For the Wii, most definitely. (0)

Xest (935314) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415655)

I have a Wii but I just can't spend long on the Wii, there's simply nothing on it to keep me playing. Play through Zelda, play through Red Steel, have a bit of a bat about on Wii sports or a play around on Rayman now and then but that's pretty much all there is to the Wii. It does however have a lot of potential, and many publishers have realised this, that's why, whilst the Wii is selling well I personally wouldn't recommend it to people right now unless you live in a house with a bunch of mates or so where you'll daily have a laugh with it's party games. Give it 6months to a year, when all the latecomers like EA who realised it's got a lot of potential have had time to develop their titles and I think there'll be a whole lot more reason to bother with the Wii.

As for the DS, I don't think anyone was really a latecomer to it, by the time I realised it's existence it already had so many games around and now it just has hundreds and hundreds of top quality games. I play my DS a whole lot more simply because there are so many good games out there.

All that said however, I play my 360/PC more than either of them, perhaps because I'm a so-called "hardcore" gamer and don't fit Nintendo's target demographic anymore. Whilst I think my 360 is going to dominate my time in the next 6 to 12 months with the likes of Halo 3, Mass Effect, Blue Dragon and so forth upto Christmas and Fable 2, Alan Wake and so forth after Christmas I can quite easily see from Mid next year onwars the Wii stealing a vastly larger portion of my time as the developers finally catch on. I kinda want a PS3 to play Resistance, and honestly if it was as cheap as the Wii I'd impulse buy it for just that, however, like the 360 it's not a cheap console, the difference being that right now it has the high cost like the 360 and the shortage of good games like the Wii so for me it's hard to justify purchasing it. Perhaps by next Christmas the PS3 will be a decent choice with many more games and a easier to justify price and so I'd imagine around then is when I'll be likely to get one. Well, that's assuming the Wii hasn't filled my previous prediction that the late comers mentioned in this article haven't got me so utterly addicted with their new games by that point ;)

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

wiggles (30088) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415833)

unless you live in a house with a bunch of mates


See, this is where typing in a British accent makes you sound to us on this side of the pond like you're from Utah.

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

VJ42 (860241) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416393)

I have no idea what he said wrong. Why do you Americans always make fun of Utah and\or New Jersey anyway??? Can someone explain it please.
It's not like they're Scottish, Welsh or French, or Irish or German or Australian either...

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416511)

And please, tell us who shot JFK. It's been decades and has been driving us bonkers.

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

fbjon (692006) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416637)

I think he was suggesting mates as in wives.

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416877)

> Why do you Americans always make fun of Utah and\or New Jersey anyway???

Here's a quick rundown on regions and states:

* Utah - Mormons everywhere, running everything with a clean-cut friendly, smiling, family-friendly kind of theocratic fascism. The running gag is that the Mormon Church was one of the last to allow polygamy, and there's more than a few cultish types left there who actively practice it.

* New Jersey - Big chemical manufacturing industry presence "downstate" (i.e. the part near Jersey City), which gives the Garden State (no kidding, that's its nickname) its unique look and smell. The rest of the state is actually fairly pretty, for a giant suburb.

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

Bret540 (794463) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415845)

Disclaimer: I do not own a Wii, XBOX 360, or a PS3 but know people who have various combinations of these systems. First question: do you have a lot of spare time? I've heard that the Wii is great for people who just want to pick up and go. If you like spending more than a hour or so on a game in one setting, there aren't a lot of those types of games for the Wii yet. Second question: have you played the new metroid yet? I've heard good things about it so far, and I would guess its more up your alley.

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

Floritard (1058660) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416331)

Pick up Resident Evil 4 for the Wii. I didn't play it earlier on the GC or PS2, so it was completely fresh to me anyway, but I really think the Wiimote is flat out perfect for that series. I always thought the RE series was boring, but it's great on the Wii. I haven't played any of the other shooters for Wii (they're all rehashed and uninspiring to me), but the Wiimote sure does work well for the close quarters tense zombie combat of RE4. For what it is, it's nearly a perfect game really. Of course I haven't played the new Metroid (which I didn't even know was out yet), so it may well be the best game yet. I agree the Wii really needs some more titles, but at least when the titles do come and they work, they're not only fun, but innovatively so. I have a pretty good idea what Halo 3 will play like, Wii games are more exciting to me though. ...

In fact, I just watched some preview movies of Metroid and it looks damn cool.

Re:For the Wii, most definitely. (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416905)

Pick up Resident Evil 4 for the Wii. I didn't play it earlier on the GC or PS2, so it was completely fresh to me anyway, but I really think the Wiimote is flat out perfect for that series. I always thought the RE series was boring, but it's great on the Wii. I haven't played any of the other shooters for Wii (they're all rehashed and uninspiring to me), but the Wiimote sure does work well for the close quarters tense zombie combat of RE4. For what it is, it's nearly a perfect game really.

Agreed. RE4 was nearly a perfect game on the Gamecube, then they added more missions (from the later PS2 version) and offered real tight control with the Wiimote. It's one of (if not THE) best game on Wii (and yes, I love Zelda also). If you DO like RE4 however for the suspense look up "Eternal Darkness" [amazon.com] . The game is very good, and well worth the price (+ a Wavebird, and memory card).

cheers.

Welcome Real Game Development (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415687)

Right now publishers, including the company I'm at, are shoveling out whatever low cost, quick to make crap out the door for the Wii. We want to milk the fad while proceeding right along with our real next gen plans.

Sucks to hear if you are a Wii fan expecting publishers to be jumping entirely on the Wii bandwagon. We have far to much experience dealing with Nintendo over the years and they haven't changed one bit this gen. Nintendo and the Wii are nothing any publisher is going to be insane enough to actually bank the company's next five years on.

Look for a million variations of sports and dancing Wii games that are already out there. We'll keep crapping the clones out as long as the suckers keep buying the crap.

Meanwhile HD TVs are moving into the mass market price range and the real next gen consoles are building up their user bases ready to buy our real games.

Knock yourself out thinking that there is some sort of amazing never seen before gameplay about to hit the Wii to make up for the abysmal cesspool of a library the system has right now. The chances of that happening are as good as Wii owners getting a true 1-1 control Lightsaber game...

Queue, indignant Wii owners...

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

netsavior (627338) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415795)

hah if HD is the only thing that makes a "real" game then this indignent Wii owner is glad that I don't own a 360 or a PS3. HDTV is merely incremental, a slight increase in visual sharpness, an aspect which has very little to do with gaming. The Wii might not be "revolutionary" right now (thanks largely to publishers who are scared to break out of the "12 more pixels deep" box), but at least it is not merely incremental. Sometimes going in a different direction is not necessarily successful (although the Wii is at least for now) but I feel like it is usually important. Basically you can't innovate if all you do is follow the leader... you can only hope for second place.

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

Kalendraf (830012) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416601)

As someone with very good vision (once rated 20/10, now closer to 20/15), I find it absolutely bizarre when people comment on how HDTV vs. SDTV is "merely incremental". For my eyes, moving from a 480i blurred, craptastic image to a 720p/1080i crisp, clear picture is even more impressive than a supposedly mammoth change like B&W to color.

I hate watching 480i TV because the fuzzy images make me wonder if I'm losing my sight. Give us HD...or make us blind.

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415915)

Hehe, according to the actual game developers instead of trolls, the reason there's so much shovelware coming out for the Wii is because they were all caught with their pants down, buying into the Sony hype and writing off the Wii. They are, however, smartening up and trying to change directions as fast as they can. That takes time, however, and in the meantime crapware cash-ins are what they've got to offer. It sucks, but it's how the game is played. Look at the majority of the PS2 library: utter shit designed to cash in on the most popular console. But also with plenty of gems designed to cash in on the most popular console as well.

Pretend Wii Sports and Elebits don't have unique gameplay all you want. The market has spoken, and the publishers are listening. The "Nobody would bet on Nintendo" rhetoric is about six months too late. It's now the "nobody would bet against Sony!" folks who are kicking themselves.

Indignant? I find the continued delusions of the trolls hilarious. :)

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416649)

How about this thought? "Shovelware is good"

Ok not really, more like "Shovelware is a good indicator of up and coming gems"

If you look at the PS2, there is so much crap that it could earn the title "Expert Excerement Expiditure"

If the Wii is heading in that direction, it's going to be great because eventually in all that digging, your going to find games like GoW and GoW2.

Wii ftw? Hardly... Why because you have companies like Epic making the Unreal engine, which is going to make PS3 dev easier. Maybe even easy enough to get their shovelware training going.

My predictions are in the next year, the Wii will have a decent showing and the 360 is going to pick up alot of momentum. Wii because I think randomly, your going to get a good game + Nintendo's first Party games. 360 because they have a mature platform with a good GOTY line up games coming up. Bioshock, Mass Effect, Hive, Fallout 3 and Halo are just a couple to mention.

So where is the PS3 going to be? in trouble until the year after. Devs will get used to the funny aspects of the PS3 and the UNREAL engine will allow people to pump crappy game after crappy game. If 360 and the Wii can make everyone not care about the PS3 any more then the PS3 will be this gen's GC/Xbox1, otherwise we are in for a 3 console tie.

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (2, Insightful)

ChefInnocent (667809) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416001)

Let us assume for the moment you are not posting as mere flaimbait. Let us also assume that you really are employed by some game company.

If your company is so short sighted as to not jump on the Wii band wagon, then your company has many ways of dying. The first is that what if the Wii continues its success? Sure, it has been a long time since Nintendo was successful for a 5 year stint. However, Nintendo is likely to make its next generation console an improvement on this one. That is to say, a more accurate Wii-mote and HD output graphics. The second way you folks are killing yourself is let us say all the game companies collude to continue pumping out the same shit as last year with better graphics. You aren't bringing in new customers. The Wii is proving that it can expand the game market; a game market that wasn't interested in last years crap last year and will be less interested in it this year.

If you and your company cannot see what the Wii is actually doing, then hopefully someone else will take over for you. Customers are buying the Wii because they are tired of the SoS. Some customers (fan boys) will continue to buy the SoS, but the rest of us are looking for the next new thing; not last years game with a shiny new interface.

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416023)

Meanwhile HD TVs are moving into the mass market price range and the real next gen consoles are building up their user bases ready to buy our real games.


Starting to move anyway. The nice big TVs the advertisements call for are still well out of range. If you're content with a monitor sized TV that does HD, it's only $600 dollars (cheapest I could find on Best Buy at 1080i).

Also, your company want might to pay more attention to the "building up" of user bases. The rate at which the PS3 and Xbox 360 are selling combined is less than that of the Wii. Beyond the costs of multi-platforming your "real" games, you'll still be targeting a smaller user base when your games come out in a few years.

There is real debate to be had on this subject, but you seem to be lacking any of the decent arguments.

I now return to my regularly scheduled playing of my 360.

Re: The development migration to Wii... (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416261)

Also, your company want might to pay more attention to the "building up" of user bases. The rate at which the PS3 and Xbox 360 are selling combined is less than that of the Wii. Beyond the costs of multi-platforming your "real" games, you'll still be targeting a smaller user base when your games come out in a few years.

Combine that with the costs of Development. THQ's president that said a Wii game cost between 25% - 50% of a 360 title... [gamespot.com]

So you can sell to a larger install base AND develop 2-4 games for the same investment? To combat this MS, and Sony need to get their install base much higher, and much quicker (or at least more profitable VIA microtransactions and such) than Nintendo, or the Wii will soon become the PS2 of this generation.

Re: The development migration to Wii... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416397)

I assume you are completely oblivious to the relative sales of third party(no first party Nintendo or Sony) game sales to make such a comment...

This is what we like to call the "Deer Hunter Fallacy". The Wii is just the latest phase of that old game development low dev cost/high return mirage.

Re: The development migration to Wii... (1)

tbannist (230135) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416497)

You do realize that if a game costs 25%-50% of another game, those extra savings are coming from somewhere other than a nebulous void right?

Wii games cost less because they don't make the game as big, as long, or as in depth as they would for another console. I'm absolutely sure that the difference in costs between HD graphic development and regular is far less than 50%. They're saving money because they're making simpler games designed for your grandmother or your 5 year old.

The development migration to Wii... (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416727)

Wii games cost less because they don't make the game as big, as long, or as in depth as they would for another console. I'm absolutely sure that the difference in costs between HD graphic development and regular is far less than 50%.

I suppose that depends on where you put your money. You can have an HD presentation and some of the best facial animations ever seen in a game, and yet end up with a 6 hour game. [ign.com]

They're saving money because they're making simpler games designed for your grandmother or your 5 year old.

Hopefully both. :-) Over Memorial Day weekend 3 generations of my family were playing WiiSports together. This would not have happened with any other system to date.

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416339)

You know, it's one thing to get caught with your pants down.

What you describe is more like getting caught with your pants down, then sitting on a block of lard while carefully and diligently sewing your pants tightly around your ankles.

Frankly, though, I don't really believe you. I am more inclined to believe the developers who are doing exactly what they did with the DS: Experimenting a bit and getting serious about the system. All the "real" HD in the world won't make up for the fact that no one who's played Metroid Prime 3 can stand the tedium of aiming with an analog stick anymore.

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416651)

Oh shut up.

You've embarrassed yourself enough in this thread. I'll pop back a year from now to make fun of your fanboy stupidity. Yes, it is juevenille and perverse, but absolutely hilarious.

Silly little punks like you spewing bullshit about the Wii today should be just as good as the same dopey fanboys making equally inane claims about the Dreamcast and Xbox years ago.

Oh how their words haunt them now...

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416759)

Frankly, though, I don't really believe you. I am more inclined to believe the developers who are doing exactly what they did with the DS: Experimenting a bit and getting serious about the system. All the "real" HD in the world won't make up for the fact that no one who's played Metroid Prime 3 can stand the tedium of aiming with an analog stick anymore.

Then I'll be sure to beat Bioshock before I pick up Metroid Prime 3. Thanks for the tip!

Re:Welcome Real Game Development (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416977)

Probably a good choice.

Bioshock looks really neat, but I can't stand aiming with an analog stick, and I won't buy SecuROM games anymore.

So I'll probably never see it.

Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415781)

I'm not sure what this guy is looking at in regards to the DS. Plenty of third-party developers have been coming to it since it became clear that the PSP wasn't going to be a giant killer, which we've known for at least two years now. I can name plenty of big-name third-party titles on the platform, and I don't even own one.

As for the Wii, while it's true that third parties were caught off-guard by it, I'm not sure that they should put too much effort into joining the "Wii game" to begin with. Most people who get the Wii, assuming that they get any games for it at all besides Wii Sports, have been buying and are going to buy Nintendo games and not much else. It was the same with the GameCube, and the same before that with the N64. Waggle doesn't change anything.

Rob

Re:Not really (3, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415927)

Wii, assuming that they get any games for it at all besides Wii Sports, have been buying and are going to buy Nintendo games and not much else. It was the same with the GameCube, and the same before that with the N64. Waggle doesn't change anything.
Wii, assuming that they get any games for it at all besides Wii Sports, have been buying and are going to buy GOOD games and not much else. It was the same with the GameCube, and the same before that with the N64. Waggle doesn't change anything.

There, fixed that for you. The fact that most publishers completely ignored the GameCube while Nintendo released some very good games, means that obviously most of the games that are being bought are going to be from Nintendo. One notable exception is Resident Evil. Same thing seems to be happening on the Wii. Nintendo is releasing a lot of really good games, meanwhile, the other publishers seem to be ignoring it, or at least did at the beginning. Most people don't even bother checking who the publisher of a game is. All they want to know is whether or not the game is good, and base their decision off that.

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416069)

have been buying and are going to buy GOOD games and not much else. It was the same with the GameCube, and the same before that with the N64. Waggle doesn't change anything.

That's basically the exact same thing that I said. If you think that there are going to be more than a handful of third-party games that go beyond mini-game gimmickry, you're living in a dream world. Waggle really doesn't change anything.

Rob

Re:Not really (1)

residieu (577863) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416365)

So, people aren't going to buy 3rd party games because of there will be no good 3rd party games. Therefore, 3rd party publishers should not bother to make games for Wii.

The only way that logic makes sense is if you have the unstated assumption that 3rd parties are incapable of making good games for the Wii

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416613)

The only way that logic makes sense is if you have the unstated assumption that 3rd parties are incapable of making good games for the Wii

OK, I'll state it now. Third parties, in general, do not want to go through the effort of making games that will somehow be better than their PS3 and 360 counterparts despite the poor processing power of the Wii and the complications of the Wiimote. They instead want to use the current Wii hype to make quick, easy money, and the best way to do that on the Wii is to rely on mini-game gimmickry.

Happy?

Rob

Re:Not really (1)

bteeter (25807) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417341)

From what I've read its quite easy for a developer to develop to the Wii, since its essentially an evolutionary improvement over the previous generation. So if they developed to the Gamecube or even the XBox they won't have a huge leap to make to develop to the Wii.

Sure the controls are going to be different, but how much development time would it take to program in using WiiMote vs a stock controller as a percentage of development time? Maybe 10% is controls? I don't know as I'm not a games developer - but I would think it wouldn't be more than that.

In reality the 3rd parties are going to want to develop to the platforms with the most users, hence most potential customers. Right now the Wii and 360 are the leaders so they are going to be the primary targets. Plus PS3 is playing catch in sales and everything I've read says its very hard to develop for. So, I'd think we'll see more Wii and 360 games under development than PS3 games in the future.

Re:Not really (1)

Joe Random (777564) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416367)

What "waggle" does is break the symmetry between consoles. Before, it was easy (or at least not overly difficult) to develop a game for a single console, and then just port it over to the other ones. Adding a unique control scheme forces game studios that want to follow that same model to either port games to the Wii poorly, or port games from the Wii poorly. Assuming that the Wii can reach a "critical mass" of market penetration -- whatever that number might be, I don't know -- what I anticipate is a greater number of exclusive titles for the Wii (as compared to previous Nintendo systems). Exclusive titles, assuming that they're good, lead to more console sales, which lead to more exclusives.

So yes, "waggle" does have the potential to change things. It could be a long shot, true, but it's a definite possibility.

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416757)

What "waggle" does is break the symmetry between consoles.

Which is horrible from a third-party standpoint. A publisher doesn't want to produce a game for only one system out of three unless that one system's parent is paying a lot of money for an exclusivity deal.

Adding a unique control scheme forces game studios that want to follow that same model to either port games to the Wii poorly, or port games from the Wii poorly.

And it's going to be (and already is) the former, not the latter. The reason why is three-fold. (a) The Wii is competing with two similar consoles, not just one, making it the odd man out; (b) the attachment rate is much lower for the Wii, especially for third-party games; and (c) the Wii is too weak for many of the games that developers are doing and wish to do. The simple metric of unit sales doesn't mean much in the face of those three things. At best, as I said, you'll see a lot of shovelware from third parties on the Wii.

Rob

Re:Not really (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417275)

Yeah, they're all going to ignore where the majority of the current-gen market is going to be (Wii is now bigger than 360 and growing faster than 360 and PS3 combined). You sound like IBM at the height of their OS/2 arrogance, where their exclusive and powerful OS would be the cash cow while Windows would be the toy OS for commoners. Until they realized all sorts of useful software was being written for Windows and OS/2 was dying on the grape wine. SD is cheap to produce. Produce a good Wii game for cheap, sell lots to a huge market, make huge profit. Or produce an even cheaper gimmicky game that'll sell ok, it's still making money. Unlike the GC which came when the PS2 was that platform, the time to market is just right.

Microsoft is often being accused of selling stuff that's just "good enough" and more often than not awkward to use with unique gimmicks that only exists on that platform, yet it was cheap and ubiquous just as personal computers took off. They also happen to be mildly successful and have 40bn in the bank. Without stretching the analogy too far, Nintendo has managed to place a Wii in very many homes. You can say what you want about the platform, but bean counters will see "potential market". They'll tell the developers to suck it up and produce for the market that makes them the most money. The tech-geeks looking at specs and the wierd controller just aren't the ones deciding the platform.

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417335)

Yeah, they're all going to ignore where the majority of the current-gen market is going to be (Wii is now bigger than 360 and growing faster than 360 and PS3 combined).

I'm sure you have proof that most of the current-gen market is going to be on the Wii. Obviously past performance is the same as future results, everyone knows that!

You can say what you want about the platform, but bean counters will see "potential market". They'll tell the developers to suck it up and produce for the market that makes them the most money. The tech-geeks looking at specs and the wierd controller just aren't the ones deciding the platform.

But the tech-geeks are the ones who are going to make the games, so...

Rob

Re:Not really (4, Interesting)

vonPoonBurGer (680105) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416461)

The fact that most publishers completely ignored the GameCube while Nintendo released some very good games, means that obviously most of the games that are being bought are going to be from Nintendo. One notable exception is Resident Evil. Same thing seems to be happening on the Wii.
I disagree completely. The GameCube had little 3rd-party support because it was the runner-up in the last generation of the console wars, selling far less units than the PS2 and original Xbox did over their lifespans. Most 3rd-party developers decided to take a "wait and see" approach with the Wii, because no one was quite sure how it would do. The only major exception was Ubisoft, and they're laughing all the way to the bank now. The Wii has 10.57 million units [vgchartz.com] sold so far, the largest slice of the next-gen pie, and that number is growing faster than the 360 and PS3 combined [vgchartz.com] . At this point all we have seen for the Wii is the tail end of the first round of games, especially considering most publishers and developers were late to start projects for the Wii. With over 10 million units sold, I fully expect to see the first major round of 3rd-party Wii titles appear next year. I mean, seriously, what publisher isn't going to want to take a stab at the gaming dollars behind over 40% of the marketplace? That incentive of being able to tap into a large chunk of the market virtually guarantees that the Wii will enjoy far better 3rd-party support than the GC did.

If you look at why the PS2 was successful, it got to market earlier than its competitors with a good product at a good price. That lead to strong initial sales, which in turn led to a lot of titles being developed for this new system. More titles turned into additional hardware sales, which led to even more developer attention on that platform, and the whole thing snowballed and ultimately 120 million PS2s were sold. The Wii may have been later to market, but at the rate it's outselling PS3 and 360 it will be the most common next-gen console by a significant margin for the Christmas '08 season. That is confirmed to be attracting increased developer attention (see the comments made by the CEO of EA [crunchgear.com] for example), which means we're going to be seeing more 3rd-party titles for the Wii in the future. That in turn will likely lead to increased hardware sales, and so on.

I don't think the Wii will have anywhere near the dominance that the PS2 enjoyed, however. This generation marks the first time that I can think of where the capabilities of the various competitors were split so starkly, while at the same time being somewhat equal in terms of their desirability. The 360 and PS3 are natural extensions of the bigger better faster more mentality, but the Wii is going in a completely different direction, last-gen graphics with a new control scheme. No one's measured it yet to my knowledge, but I suspect there will be a significant amount of overlap between owners of the Wii and "true" next-gen consoles (i.e. 360/PS3). That may have an impact on how gaming dollars get spent down the road. My money's on a rough split between the Wii and the 360, though I'm not sure which will be on top. I'm convinced at this point that the PS3 will be this generation's distant third.

Re:Not really (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415999)

The N64 and GC were disasters for Nintendo's 3rd party support, and it had very little do with the popularity of Nintendo's 1st party titles. 3rd parties were extremely active and successful on the SNES and NES; N just did a great job of ostracizing them in the N64 generation and an inadequate job of luring them back in the GC generation. Based on appearances N has fixed the problem with 3rd party relations, and now looks to have fixed the other problem of not having enough units out there to be attractive vs the other consoles as in the GC generation.

Things change. "Waggle" may not be why they change, but "3rd parties don't sell on Nintendo" is not set in stone.

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416151)

Based on appearances N has fixed the problem with 3rd party relations

Not in my observation. The Wiimote discourages traditional games, the Wii itself is so weak that its full potential will likely be realized within a couple of years, and Nintendo is still lackadaisical about online gaming. Those things are strong negatives to third parties.

Rob

Re:Not really (2, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416355)

3rd party relations means business relations, as in not treating 3rd parties like shit (as they did in the N64 generation), and instead encouraging them with development support and other assistance to publish games for the system (as they did insufficiently in the GC generation). Nintendo made it clear they understood their errors.

Just like more and more 3rd party game developers are making it clear they understand their own error in underestimating the Wii. Having more consoles out there than any other, with ongoing sales stronger than any other, is a strong positive to third parties. When's the last time you heard a company publicly say "Yes, we fucked up when we didn't strongly support this console from the beginning, we're trying to fix that ASAP"? Nobody said that about the N64 or GC, that's for certain. So whether you can see it or not, things are very different now.

You're also completely wrong about the Wii being weak being a strong negative to 3rd parties. It isn't. They don't care. Proof: Basically every console matchup you could mention. N64 vs PSX, Xbox vs PS2, PSP vs DS, NES vs Master System. In each case the largest library and the largest player base was on the weaker system, in some cases vastly weaker. The last time the most powerful console "won" was the SNES vs Genesis generation. The game developers only care about power if the players care about power, and so far no indication that the Wii's lack of power has hurt sales.

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416569)

In each case the largest library and the largest player base was on the weaker system, in some cases vastly weaker.

In what cases vastly weaker? I don't remember ever seeing a console succeed whose full potential could be realized so quickly. Less than a year into the Wii's lifespan, we already hear speculation from developers that they're approaching the limits of what the Wii can do. And how do you explain all the games for the PS3 and 360 which have no planned ports for the Wii, even after the third parties are supposed to have "gotten it"?

Rob

Re:Not really (4, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417329)

In what cases vastly weaker?

PSP is PS2-level hardware while DS is N64-level hardware. Speaking of N64, it was vastly more powerful than the PSX (see Waverace vs Jet Moto if you don't remember), though the PSX had the advantage of CD storage which was important for some games but not most. Mostly the ones that used lots of FMV. Gameboy vs every pre-PSP portable is a perfect example.

Pretend power is important all you want. History says otherwise. Game developers understand this.

I don't remember ever seeing a console succeed whose full potential could be realized so quickly. Less than a year into the Wii's lifespan, we already hear speculation from developers that they're approaching the limits of what the Wii can do

And I don't remember ever hearing anyone say that having it take 5+ years to figure out how to get the promised performance out of a console is a good thing. The Wii is the same architecture as the GC just with ~2-3x the frequency. It's hardly surprising that it takes developers less time to figure out how to max its potential than the PS3 given 5 years of experience with the GC, and judging from their comments they prefer it this way.

And how do you explain all the games for the PS3 and 360 which have no planned ports for the Wii, even after the third parties are supposed to have "gotten it"?

Well pretty much like you said the Wii encourages non-traditional game play. Half-assed ports with waggle controls added are what the companies are putting out now. Having "gotten it" they are not planning on continuing, instead they will be developing titles that play to the Wii's strengths. This is what you would expect.

You haven't actually said how any of these things are negatives for game developers... they just seem like things you aren't impressed with. Game developers are impressed by market share numbers. Game developers have openly supported the Wii and said they made a mistake not supporting it and are changing course in order to do so. Why you think that means the opposite of what it seems to, that 3rd parties won't be supporting the Wii, I don't know.

Re:Not really (1)

EggyToast (858951) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416475)

I'd imagine that developers would quite like the reduced cost of a more established, yet slower, system architecture, and would be perfectly happy not having to introduced network code into their games.

The problem is that the games that work well with those type of elements (flashy FPS games just to name one large genre) exist almost entirely due to those two elements.

But they're hardly dealbreakers. It's not like BioShock has online play.

Re:Not really (1)

Tacvek (948259) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416563)

Based on appearances N has fixed the problem with 3rd party relations

Not in my observation. The Wiimote discourages traditional games, the Wii itself is so weak that its full potential will likely be realized within a couple of years, and Nintendo is still lackadaisical about online gaming. Those things are strong negatives to third parties.

Rob
Generally this has been the case. Nintendo has a major focus on younger age range and non-gamers. These areas of focus mean that nintendo cannot really do much more than the irritating friend code system. Otherwise the Media would do a bunch of "pedo's can communicate with the children via the Wii!!!" type stories. (Those have already happened with the DS.) This is a shame. I will admit that the XBOX360 has a much better system (except for the idiotic subscription system). (I have never seen or used the PS3's online system, so I cannot comment on it). I honestly don't expect too much from the Wii in terms of hard-core or semi-hardcore games. The primarry ones will most likely be the Mario, Zelda, StarFox, and Metroid series (as always), with perhaps 1 or 2 good third party games.

However, the Wii has positioned itself fairly well for local-multiplayer. (Both non-traditional like Wiisports, or semi-tradional like SSBB and Mario Party series). So if one is a gamer, and local-multiplayer is not their thing, then the Wii is probably not the best console for them. However, it may still be worth having for the handful of good games it will have.

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416577)

The Wiimote doesn't really discourage anything. Even without using pointing/motion sensing you have the control stick on the nunchuck and enough buttons to support traditional games. 4 easy access ones, another 4 hard to reach without changing your grip (but sufficient for functions like pausing, inventory selection etc.) , and the d-pad (also a little difficult to switch to quickly)

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416957)

If you don't use the waggle but do use the nunchuk, you only have an analog stick, a D-Pad, and six useable buttons. The PS3 and 360 controllers have two analog sticks, a D-Pad, and twelve useable buttons (including the stick buttons, though I can't remember if the 360 has those). Many games on the latter two systems use most or all of those buttons and sticks. And of course the Sixaxis has motion sensing on top of all this. Waggle can't replace all of those missing functions.

Rob

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20417043)

But you don't need anywhere near that many buttons to have a good traditional game (Whatever that is). You are right that the Wii control scheme complicates making cross platform games. It doesn't get in the way of traditional games.

Re:Not really (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417451)

You're assuming the reduction in buttons is a bad thing. I would argue that using every button on a dual-shock is an example of poor UI design.

Re:Not really (1)

Zalbik (308903) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417053)

the Wii itself is so weak that its full potential will likely be realized within a couple of years, and Nintendo is still lackadaisical about online gaming. Those things are strong negatives to third parties


So the fact that development shops can spend less time on graphics & eye-candy, and the system has very popular titles WITHOUT multiplayer should be considered negatives for third parties?!?

I don't quite get it...

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417133)

It's funny that people think that all there is to processing power is "graphics and eye-candy." It's like they haven't been paying any attention to the reasons why games have improved since Pong.

And yes, the Wii does have popular titles without online multiplayer. Unfortunately, all of them are made by Nintendo, and they're mostly being bought by long-time Nintendo fans who obviously never cared about online multiplayer to begin with.

Rob

Re:Not really (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416287)

I disagree. I'd probably buy more third party games, because Nintendo seems to still like to target kids and general audiences. But I'd like to see on the wii games like Resident Evil, Manhunt, Sadness, Mortal Kombat, etc.

The gamecube didn't sell like the Wii is selling, so I don't think you can safely assume that the people that have flocked to nintendo will act the same as those that were with nintendo for the GC.

Re:Not really (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417141)

Nintendo produced the best games so far. Other companies do fine when they produce decent games -- but even a mediocre game for Wii can sell better than an excellent game for PS3, making it an easy target.

Re:Not really (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417221)

Of course a mediocre game for the Wii can sell better than a great game for the PS3 right now, since the Wii has a lot more units sold. Draw a fair comparison by changing "PS3" to "360" and you'll see a dramatic difference.

Rob

Re:Not really (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417389)

Waggle doesn't change anything.

I think it changes consoles fundamentally, just as much as the mouse changed desktop computing.

They didn't expect Wii to be popular (1)

EricR86 (1144023) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415801)

As a student I attended an information session for a game development company. They were looking for new undergrads to join their game development team so I thought I'd check it out.
What I found out is that they were developing their title game exclusively for the PS3. And was slated (IIRC) to be released close to the launch of the PS3 itself. They stated that they had problems with the hardware/drivers and the tools. And even now it's still in development last I heard.

The Wii at this point wasn't out yet, but during the question session I had to ask - why not develop for the Wii (or PC - since the developers admitted they played a lot of games on their PC)? They didn't give a clear answer or even express a direct interest, and I don't think they had one. It seems as though they just simply didn't see the merit in developing for something different and possibly "gimmicky". IIRC they said that they wouldn't rule it out, but now that they're stuck on the PS3 until they get the game shipped.

Of course they're going to be "late" to the Wii. I'm sure there are tons of companies who devoted themselves to either the XBox360 or PS3 betting on their market dominance. But instead found themselves struggling to develop for the platforms they chose (e.g. Silicon Knights). Saying that, I have no idea if the Wii development platform is any better.

To their credit, they were developing a DS game that apparently was coming along much better along with their PS3 title.

Re:They didn't expect Wii to be popular (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416627)

Exactly, there's a lot of people who just plain missed the boat on this. Well, the great thing is, enough people didn't to make the platform stay viable until they catch up.

Ubisoft says they're taking advantage of this... (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416205)

... to take Wii profits and use them to produce better 360 and PS3 games. Or so say the folks over on a PS3 forum I hang out on.

Frankly, I think it'll take the third parties a while to get the hang of the system. There's a widespread belief that third parties can't succeed on Nintendo platforms -- which may have been partially true, but some of that is just that Nintendo polishes games to a mirror-like finish before shipping them, and most companies can't outdo them.

Still, there's plenty of awesome 3rd-party games on the DS, and more to come. I expect that, by the end of this year, we'll be starting to see some better-produced third party games on the Wii, although Cruisin' looks like utter ass still. But the fact that Nintendo's putting out games that look pretty decent suggests that it's possible, and if sales keep being utterly phenomenal, I suspect we'll see an initial flood of "well, sorry, uhm, here's our wii game, we developed it in two months" titles, followed by some serious titles that people put real time into. Just compare things like RE4 Wii (which is pretty good, despite being a mere port) to some of the early shovelware... I think it'll happen.

I'm not surprised that the early games are pretty mediocre. To be honest, if you look at the titles that came out for, say, the PS2, there's a whole mountain of utter crap there, with the good titles buried in the heap. We tend to think of it as getting a lot of great games, and it did, but percentage-wise, it's no better than anything else, and worse than many.

Everyone is late, so they are on time (2, Insightful)

hellfire (86129) | more than 6 years ago | (#20417225)

Every company, including game companies like to bet on what they think is a sure thing. In the console market, the Wii is a disruptive technology. Few mainstream titles bet on disruptive technologies. And the larger the company, the less likely the CEO is going to have some kind of innovative idea or an innovative team that explains to the CEO why this disruptive technology would be good. Every game maker was going by historical numbers based on the gamecube, which weren't good compared to the PS2 or xbox.

Same thing happened with the dot com bust. Everyone was going gung ho, expecting higher sales in 2001, when suddenly, everyone stopped buying and the bottom fell out of everyone's earnings. Customers were buying because of the Y2k scare, but when it never came, they didn't have to buy any more.

The CEOs are praised for having such good earnings before 2001, and then bemoan their luck after 2001 when they say "oh well we didn't see the crash coming." Everyone saw the damn market crash coming EXCEPT these slow CEOs. I'll admit no one knew exactly when it was coming, but it was coming soon enough.

Same with the Wii. They all were geared towards the old consoles, and now they all are getting bitten in the ass because the PS3 is overpriced and buggy, and the xbox is "eh, whatever." But the Wii is something that is getting new customers, and requires new thinking. Big slow corporations don't like to think in new ways until they are forced to.

There are of course exceptions, but the ones that do everything like everyone else don't tend to care that much or get severely penalized. They are average humans after all.
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