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What Vista SP1 Means To You

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the see-your-doctor dept.

Windows 340

An anonymous reader writes "Geek.com has an interview with Nick White, Microsoft's Vista Product Manager, covering the upcoming release of Vista SP1. The interview goes over some of the new features, how the change will affect admins, and how Microsoft decides if a change should be rolled out as an update or as part of the service pack. One of the most interesting questions asks whether people should feel that they have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, a common practice with Windows users. White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack. Just the same, a News.com article explores the possibility that this update will finally begin driving users to Vista."

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340 comments

What Vista SP1 means to me (5, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415371)

Vista SP1 means fresh material to pick on Microsoft for. So now, instead of having a year of the same old "Vista sucks and is failing" articles on Slashdot day after day, we'll have fresh new material like "Vista SP1 sucks and is failing."

Re:What Vista SP1 means to me (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415497)

What it means to me is enough freelance support work that I'll be able to afford a new Mac. On the downside, it's the IT equivalent of working with raw sewage.

A message from raw sewage (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415737)

On the downside, it's the IT equivalent of working with raw sewage.

We, the raw sewage community, take umbrage with that remark.

Re:What Vista SP1 means to me (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416257)

Oh well, I think the brown turds are better than the black turds, don't you?

What this means is that M$ is begging again. (-1, Flamebait)

twitter (104583) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415875)

Yes, Vista has failed [slashdot.org] and there are signs of it everyday. The stink is especially obvious when, former advocates in the tech press apologize for saying Vista was worth buying [slashdot.org] , and many other editors agree [slashdot.org] .

I can understand why Nick White would want you to buy Vista, but I don't see any real changes that address the problems people are having. He can say whatever he wants about process, it's product that counts.

M$ has burnt a lot of what little credibility it had left with Vista. Apologies from editors are not going to do the trick as long as there is real fair and independent review of performance. Windoze users have waited seven years for an upgrade and they can easily afford to wait another to see if Vista has anything that warrents it's cost and restrictions.

Poopyhead (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416235)

M$... Windoze... M$... Windoze... [unsubstantiated blabber]... M$... Windoze [bad spelling]... M$... Windoze... [self-references]... M$... Windoze...

I used to know a guy on a campus social sciences mailing list that could not discuss Islam or Islamic society without using the term "islamofascist". Every single time. And all his references were to blog entries he had written, most of which were plain wrong or simple misrepresented facts. It gets old after a while, but more importantly it's the equivalent to using "poopyhead" when talking about someone you don't like. It's impossible to have conversations of any sort with people like that.

It's funny that you talk about Microsoft's credibility here, given that your slaughter of intelligent discourse also eliminates most of yours.

I like Slashdot but lately it's becoming more and more like Digg.

Re:What this means is that M$ is begging again. (1, Informative)

jeffasselin (566598) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416549)

Twitter, sometimes you talk sense, sometimes you sound like some kind of fundamentalist nutjob. This post made sense and was informative for people not following up on the last news.

But people would take your posts a lot more seriously if you spelled Microsoft or its shorthand version MS properly. I don't like them myself, but there's no need for infantile name-throwing.

Re:What this means is that M$ is begging again. (1, Insightful)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416561)

M$ has burnt a lot of what little credibility it had left with Vista. Apologies from editors are not going to do the trick as long as there is real fair and independent review of performance. Windoze users have waited seven years for an upgrade and they can easily afford to wait another to see if Vista has anything that warrents it's cost and restrictions.

Coincidentally, I just sat down and used Windows Vista properly for the first time today. Clean installs, first in Parallels Desktop and then Boot Camp. And I utterly fail to see what it so objectionable about Vista. It's not earth shattering, no, but it's at least better than XP, if not as good as OS X. It's not that much slower than XP was on the same hardware, even with all the Aero stuff enabled. The UAC prompts...I had "one", on installing Apple's Boot Camp drivers (which, on the negative side, crashed the system.)

This is my personal experience only, true, but as far as I'm concerned it's far from the sinking crater that you seem to think it is.

Vista SP1 could spell the end of Linux (1, Interesting)

The_Abortionist (930834) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415967)

Vista having an enhanced command prompt makes Linux lose its single advantage.

RIP Linux 2008 -- Was never ready for the desktop :(

Re:Vista SP1 could spell the end of Linux (1, Flamebait)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416123)

Yeah, we can all rewrite 30 years worth of shell scripts just so we can use one of the most bloated operating systems ever developed.

New features? (1)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415395)

Didn't I just read in the Slashdot Vista news earlier "The service pack is said to improve performance and stability, not to add features."

Re:New features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415445)

Oh noes! Call the Wambulance! Slashdot made an error in which it contradicted itself! The servers explode and spill hot grits all over Cowboy Neal!

Re:New features? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415659)

The servers explode and spill hot grits all over Cowboy Neal!

      Only in Soviet Russia. Here, it's the other way around. However I for one welcome our inaccurate duplicating slashdot...

Re:New features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415463)

That's why this isn't a dupe

From TFA: (1)

khasim (1285) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415489)

That being said, the message for Windows Vista SP1 is don't expect new features, but some components do gain new functionality.

So ... the new "functionality" will not be a new "feature".

I guess we're going to have to re-write the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature".

Meanwhile, we'll be seeing new bugs in the new "functionality" that is not a new "feature".

Re:New features? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415565)

Didn't I just read in the Slashdot Vista news earlier "The service pack is said to improve performance and stability, not to add features."
Yes, very misleading. Performance and stability are the new features.

It means they shipped a buggy product (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415399)


and they failed to ship a finished product, imagine if MS made cars

Re:It means they shipped a buggy product (2, Insightful)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415673)

So you are saying that everybody ships unready products. These days everybody have patchs. Some calls it Service Packs, others call it updates, others just patchs, and finally other call it Leopard ;-)

Re:It means they shipped a buggy product (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415877)

like cars don't have recalls?

it means (1)

joeldg (518249) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415423)

I doubt it will "drive" users to vista saying previous service packs managed to drive users to buy iMac's and then MacBooks.

What it means to me? (1)

overshoot (39700) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415431)

You mean other than having to act sympathetic when cow-orkers gripe constantly?

Hmmm -- nope. Nothing.

put a gun to the ball (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415513)

Put a gun to the ball

My friend Bastille.

But that ball ain't a ball

Irony can only forstall

Knowing that which a clever little word trick cannot reveal.

Re:What it means to me? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415813)

act sympathetic. When Vista doesn't give me any trouble and does what I want it to do. Note: I dual boot Vista and Ubuntu since I'm among the third party, yes one does exits, that likes both Windows and Linux based OS's. Windows users = Republicans, Linux users = democrats. WIN/LINUX = registered voter as an independent. You can all take your this os is better and shove it up your tight ass holes because both have the pros and cons.

Re:What it means to me? Nothing at all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416017)

Love the nothing tag! Kudos to whomever it concerns! xD

What Vista SP1 Means to You (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415433)

Unfortunately for Microsoft, Vista SP1 doesn't mean anything to the majority of computer users, and that trend is showing very little sign of changing. People that have been using Windows have been pretty happy with XP and Win2000. Surprising numbers of casual users still have '98. And increasing numbers of us are using something else entirely =)

Value proposition (4, Insightful)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415469)

So, with the service pack you're finally getting a stable product? Where's the value for all the money you're laying out? Pay hundreds of dollars, put up with anal probe product activation and wait almost a year for what you should have gotten in the first place.

I'm sure that makes sense on some planet...just not this one.

Re:Value proposition (3, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415599)

if they didn't fix bugs you would whine. they are fixing them, and you whine. Does no distro of linux have any bugs right now?
welcome to slashdot I guess *sigh*

Re:Value proposition (2, Interesting)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415669)

I think you need to stop looking at things as black and white. Its not "stable vs. unstable." Personally, I've not had a single Vista OS crash since I started using it. So its been very stable for me. I think that covers most Vista users actually.

The presense of bugs or unstability in some computers does not mean its not a value to most; even those affected by the bugs may see value depending on the severity of the bugs. Some may be annoying, but taken as a whole, the product is of value to them.

I'm not sure where you're going with your activation complaint; its seems to me to be the exact same thing that WinXP activation is, and it wasn't any more intrusive than XP.

Performance is Black and White Issue. (-1, Flamebait)

twitter (104583) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416201)

I think you need to stop looking at things as black and white. Its not "stable vs. unstable."

Performance issues are important, even to the absurdly forgiving Windoze crowd. Even in a monopoly, the market can object. [slashdot.org]

Re:Performance is Black and White Issue. (2, Insightful)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416363)

Stability and performance are not the same. I never said performance was not an issue, nor did I say stability was unimportant... so I really don't see your point.

And please, enough with your stupid journal already. Its already been picked apart, and even the anti-MS crowd here is starting to see you for the nutjob you are.

Re:Value proposition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415711)

Maybe it's psychology. A lot of people said they'd hold off until SP1 was released. Here comes SP1 over the horizon. So this means the annoyances are all fixed right? and everything's cool now right? So all the people who said they'd wait for stable-bugfix'd Vista will run out and get it... Not that anything is necessarily fixed, but if I were MS I'd put out SP1 ASAP without trying to look like we're panicking. Oh well I'll continue to sit on the sideline with my OSX and Linux and eat popcorn and watch the show...

Re:Value proposition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415885)

Seems like a similar argument could be made about Apple's hardware products. First gen Apple products, for all their innovations and anti-aliased fonts, tend to suck. Things start going right from second gen onward.

Why they and Microsoft continue to do this is because putting out unstable new shite early and getting the early adopters (and all the problems it comes with) is better than appearing stagnant and slow.

Waiting for the SP (5, Insightful)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415471)

Mr. White's assertions aside, IMHO, MS is releasing this service pack as early as possible to entice people into believing Vista is "ready". The practice in the industry to wait for the first few updates is to firmly entrenched for them to simply "write it off".

And in my experience, lest my FOSS bias shine through, the idea of waiting for the first few updates goes for most software, not just Windows or other MS software.

Re:Waiting for the SP (2, Interesting)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415727)

So if they deploy the SP later, then they have a lot of problems or just don't care for the users. If they deploy it early, they just want the people think the system is ready... So they can't win, can they?

On the other hand if Apple deploy some patchs later, they are just getting sure that everything is fixed right, and if they deploy them early, then wow! they are just blazing fast to help their users! oh well....

Re:Waiting for the SP (0, Troll)

UncleFluffy (164860) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415789)

So if they deploy the SP later, then they have a lot of problems or just don't care for the users. If they deploy it early, they just want the people think the system is ready... So they can't win, can they?

Well, they could. There's always the option of not shipping broken code in the first place.

Re:Waiting for the SP (2, Insightful)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416011)

Hmmm.. and ....who does that? Please enlight me, because i don't know any OS or even a single complex program that gets it's right without patch from day one.

Re:Waiting for the SP (1)

UncleFluffy (164860) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416589)

Please enlight me, because i don't know any OS or even a single complex program that gets it's right without patch from day one.

Well:

It's a matter of degree - although all code has bugs, some organisations tend to produce code that is far buggier (both in terms of quantity and seriousness of bugs.

Code that is expected to have bugs is usually marked "beta". Shipping known-buggy code without marking it as "beta" is dishonest.

Usually, beta testers are rewarded for their work. With Microsoft (and a lot of other companies, especially in the PC games field), people have to pay for the privilege.

Different quality expectations apply to code that is given away for free ("here, I wrote this - it might be useful to you, grab a copy if you want it") and code that is sold ("you give me X, I will give you software that does Y" implies that the software actually does Y and not Z).

Besides, if you look at your original post, you said "they can't win" - my response is that, if they could figure out how to ship non-buggy code, they would win - which is something I believe that a lot of people would agree to.

Re:Waiting for the SP (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415819)

There are a few things that are certain:
1. When doing major rewrites, you *will* cause regressions. At least if you don't have a budget where millions is petty cash.
2. No matter how much testing you do, users will find ways to break it which you never imagined.

I do seem to recall a few OSS releases where they basicly admitted "yes, we're releasing now even though we know it's not gold, but we need more testers". It's all down to the risk/reward ratio, there's always a bunch of power users who won't be "beta testers" - you can hear the stigma - but they're willing to test the latest bleeding edge release. If you're a big company and it's a support function, you're more risk-adverse with good reason. If you look at something like RHEL, SNES, Debian stable, Ubuntu LTS etc. they don't carry fresh releases either. Quite frankly, any business jumping to get on Vista right after release they're not quite sane, service pack or not.

Re:Waiting for the SP (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415853)

...the idea of waiting for the first few updates goes for most software, not just Windows...
I've often said I wouldn't take the dot zero release of eternal life...

Re:Waiting for the SP (1)

Playdohead (770609) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416127)

Microsoft has a studied history in early announcements on future product availability. It's a part of their product and marketing philosophy. Customers want fabulous feature (X) available now or in the near future from competing product? Issue press release detailing feature (X)'s prominence in next release coming "real soon now". (Then deliver some two, three, or four release later) Here we have a case that is no different. Unwashed masses (and unwashed admins) waiting for a service pack? Issue press release detailing service pack coming "real soon now". Unwashed masses breath sigh of relief knowing Microsoft is on it! Unwashed sys admins know better...

What Vista SP1 Means To Me... (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415481)

It means there is only one more service pack to go before I might consider thinking about adopting it.

Re:What Vista SP1 Means To Me... (1)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415629)

It means there is only one more service pack to go before I might consider thinking about adopting it.
Yep, and then after that it will be time to upgrade again, er, I mean wait for the second service pack for their next OS to come out that is.

To me it's too little too late. (1, Redundant)

casualsax3 (875131) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415483)

After flirting with Ubuntu on my laptop for about a year, and using Vista at home on my desktop for about 6 months I've had it, and I'll be switching the desktop to Linux as soon as I get some spare time.

Re:To me it's too little too late. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415749)

This will not be popular here but my experience was exactly the opposite. I was a happy Ubuntu user for the most part but never looked back after trying Vista. I like Vista and can't imagine switching any time soon.

The couple games I play run great. Making and burning dvd movies could not be simpler. The media center is awesome. The voice recognition is amazing and saves me a lot of typing since I can just dictate to my computer now using a headset. The dvd making software, voice/speech abilites and media center all came with Vista! No messing with a bunch of different purchases to do things with my PC that should be easy now in 2007.

My computer has only locked up one time with vista - that was during a vmware uninstall.

Re:To me it's too little too late. (1)

AaxelB (1034884) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416379)

I'm not contesting the content of your comment at all, your testimony sounds solid, but whenever anybody in any year says anything like "It should be easy now in @YEAR" they just sound silly, especially in retrospect.

"It's 1997! I shouldn't have to tie my own shoes anymore!"
"It's 1905! Why am I still jerking myself off?"

BitLocker quote from article (4, Interesting)

Benanov (583592) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415487)

From TFA:

"If you're an administrator, then you definitely have a lot more to look forward to when it comes to SP1. One thing that caught my eye was the additional ability in BitLocker to encrypt extra local volumes. Many enterprises still partition their workstations and laptops into a C and D drive. Since users are usually instructed to use the D drive to store their data, this means data was at risk if the enterprise also used BitLocker as a security measure, since D couldn't be previously encrypted."

Wait. Only C: could be locked? Full of fail.

What does it mean to me? (1)

Archimonde (668883) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415493)

Maybe a massive bugfix so I can install and use it finally? Or is this just a small patch to an OS going down in history as a Windows ME Second edition

Re:What does it mean to me? (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415697)

ME was rushed out the door to placate those that wanted a new windows but couldn't wait for Xp. There's no major shift here like going from DOS to NT was, and the next desktop OS is scheduled for a few years now... so I don't see this being the same as ME.

Two SP1 stories in one day? (2, Informative)

Arathon (1002016) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415501)

This seems semi-ridiculous.

But I'll say the same thing here that I did last time. Basically, the reason that SP1 isn't as big as deal as a "Service Pack" normally is, is that the two "main" updates that will provide a different end-user experience have already been released [arstechnica.com] .

The main "other" thing that SP1 will offer, which apparently wasn't confirmed by Nick White's post, is Paul Thurrott's statement (echoed by others, but which he has now stepped back from until he can get confirmation [winsupersite.com] ) that Vista SP1 will include a kernel update to 6.1 [winsupersite.com] . This would be the same kernel that will be in Windows Server 2008.

Re:Two SP1 stories in one day? (0, Troll)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415741)

Despite being touted as "news for nerds" (which is a joke, half the articles aren't, but whatever) and the perennial hangout site of open-source nerds, said open-source nerds still, for some reason, still find the need to cling on every word that comes from Redmond. I don't know why. Might make an interesting doctoral dissertation for a sociology major or something.

karma be damned!

Yawn... Another MS advert in disguise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415515)

"One of the most interesting questions asks if whether people should feel like that have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, "

Interesting question? You seriously need a life.

And what was the anticipated answer? "Speaking as the product Manager I seriously recommend you don't upgrade to it until we manage to fix it up."

Wanna buy a bridge?

ROFL (0, Troll)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415527)

Yeah, I know everyone I talk to has been saying the only reason they don't switch to Vista is because there's no service pack out for it. Yup, it definitely has nothing to do with shoddy driver support from 3rd party manufacturers, or things like UAC. It's definitely been the lack of a service pack.

Honestly, is this seriously what passes of journalism these days??

Re:ROFL (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415821)

The practice of "waiting for the first SP", while perhaps somewhat of a misnomer in most cases, is well founded in the IT world (that deals with MS products anyway), so it's not exactly the dumbest question ever. Granted there are many other reasons not to switch to Vista yet (legacy application compatibility being chief among them), but I promise you there are quite a few IT shops out there who took the attitude of "Well we'll wait until SP1 and see" when it came to the question of moving the infrastructure to Vista.

Re:ROFL (4, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415953)

Sorry, but I just don't buy it. People don't switch to Vista because of:

1) hardware compatibility issues,
2) software compatibility issues, and
3) annoyances such as UAC, which negatively impact hinder the user experience (though, I do understand their utility).

In a corporate setting, the first two are, without question, show stoppers, and the last is a burden for support staff. Further, XP *works* for most people, so there's little reason to switch. A service pack for Vista does nothing to address these issues (nor could it).

Re:ROFL (2, Insightful)

sootman (158191) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416469)

Q: Microsoft's biggest competition is...
1) Linux
2) Mac OS X
3) Old MS products
The correct answer is 'C'. I know a company that is *very* Microsoft-centric. Last year they were announcing ambitious plans to move to Vista as soon as possible. Not only are they still on XP, they evidently now have no plans to move to Vista. I guess a cold dose of reality was enough to bring them to their senses.

MS is facing two problems with regard to Vista adoption: 1) Vista mostly sucks* and 2) XP is mostly OK. Either one would be an obstacle. Both together are nearly insurmountable.

In the next 2-3 years, I predict...
- most apps will work OK on Vista
- driver issues will have been worked out
- another service pack or two will shave off all the rough edges--they'll fix that networking/multimedia issue, they'll have better default settings so UAC isn't as annoying, etc.
- OEM hardware with Vista will work pretty well

Basically, they'll get past the current state of Vista having "no redeeming merits to overcome the compatibility headaches it causes." [joelonsoftware.com] But I really do think that will take 2-3 years, and it'll be interesting to see what MS does in that time. I'm sure Vista will eventually be the dominant OS, but I think it'll take that long--which is too bad, because spam simply will not go away until the bulk of the boxes on the Internet are not insecure Windows systems. (Of course, if Mac OS X or Linux wins, that'll be fine too.) MS really screwed up, though. Once Vista was spiraling out of control, they should have pulled back and did what Apple did with OS X--release a whole new OS with the old OS in a VM. [wikipedia.org] That way they could have had a relatively cruft-free OS with the old crufty stuff contained in a VM, rather than making the single largest collection of cruft ever.

* where "mostly sucks" means "some things that used to work are now broken, and the things that are new and work aren't really that great."

Re:ROFL (1)

R_Dorothy (1096635) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416047)

...there are quite a few IT shops out there who took the attitude of "Well we'll wait until SP1 and see" when it came to the question of moving the infrastructure to Vista.

This is my experience of the attitude of bad IT shops. The ones I respect take the form follows function approach - if there is a compelling functional reason to upgrade then that will be the driver, not some arbitrary line in the sand. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:ROFL (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416405)

Note that I didn't say that SP1 would be the reason for a switch, only that a switch would only be considered after SP1. I would imagine most shops are like mine; when a new OS comes out we look at it, techs like me run it first as test machines then eventually as main machines, and eventually (read: when MS pretty much forces us) we move the campus to it, in the interests of keeping a standard desktop environment. Though actually we are probably going to take an "upgrade by attrition" approach this time around, because of Vista's insane hardware requirements.

Bloat? (3, Funny)

Thyamine (531612) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415535)

Wow, I didn't know you could remove bloat with a Service Pack.

Re:Bloat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415791)

Wow, I didn't know you could remove bloat with a Service Pack.
Did you not see the part in the last article about SP1 being a >1GB download and requiring >7GB of disk space?

It means "XP" to me (4, Interesting)

langelgjm (860756) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415563)

I'll tell you what it means to me - Windows XP 64-bit. I "upgraded" to Vista early in the summer, and I kept telling myself through all the headaches that I'd just wait it out until SP1. Now that that's not until next year, I've decided I'm no longer waiting. Instead, I'm switching to XP 64-bit, which appears to have a lot more driver support than the last time I tried it. There's no way I'm going to wait until Q1 2008 for a service pack that might fix my issues, especially if, according to Microsoft, service packs are less important now that Windows Update is widely used.

Re:It means "XP" to me (2)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416021)

There's no way I'm going to wait until Q1 2008 for a service pack that might fix my issues, especially if, according to Microsoft, service packs are less important now that Windows Update is widely used.

Huh? Service packs are less important now. A service pack is essentially just a collection of patches. Before the Internet was widely used, these patches would be distributed on floppy and later CD. Now you can just download the patches immediately. These days, a service pack is just a large download, along with the CD option for people who don't want to download a giant collection of patches. (Or, if Vista SP1 is going to be as large as Microsoft seems to be suggesting, a DVD option.)

It's not like Microsoft is not releasing bug fixes until Q1 2008, they're continuously releasing them through Windows Update. Vista has been improving as they release patches - although the one that effected me the most was the Intel microcode patch. Now games randomly crash back to the desktop instead of randomly blue-screening.

If you've already paid for Windows Vista, you might as well keep using it. Microsoft isn't holding back on bug fixes - they're coming out (constantly) through Windows Update. Of course, if you're still using Windows XP, there's really no reason to upgrade unless you really like shiny things.

Re:It means "XP" to me (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416587)

It's sad that you got modded up, but at least the moderator was smart enough to use "underrated" to prevent from being M2ed for modding up crap.

It's not like Microsoft is not releasing bug fixes until Q1 2008

RTFA. That's exactly what's happening. Straight from the article, straight from Microsoft's product manager himself:

SP1's purpose is not primarily as a feature-delivery vehicle but as a way to improve the user experience and enhance it in some areas.
 
... On the other hand, security may be a greater concern, and numerous I.T. professionals and system administrators have provided ideas for enhancing the security advances fundamental to Windows Vista. Among these was the ability to extend BitLocker encryption beyond the bootable volume to other partitions on your hard disk, as made possible by SP1.

 
:headdesk:

Yes, that's right, you'll have to wait until Q1 2008 to be able to encrypt more than one partition. Read the whitepaper they link to: [windowsvistablog.com] it provides a nice list of the bug fixes you'll have to wait to get.

Fuck you microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415595)

White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary

      Sure, it's no longer necessary because the OS will STILL be a piece of shit after the service pack.

To me, a Slashdot reader... (2, Interesting)

jkrise (535370) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415637)

it means that we will have a flood of articles about Vista SP1, just like the initial flood of Vista articles. Seeing as there's now 2 articles already inside an hour.... I shudder to think how many we will see until March 2008.. or whenever SP1 comes out.

What can someone be xpected to say about a mere Statement of Intent from Microsoft, about a Service Pack.... which right thinking people would expect a big comapny to release RIGJHT NOW and solve teething troubles faced by Vista users daily?

The schedule for SP1 indicates MS is under zero pressure to deliver anything or do anything innovative. No point fantasizing about it.

Re:To me, a Slashdot reader... (1)

fsmunoz (267297) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416019)

Indeed. I'm waiting for a "GPL violation found in Vista SP1 running of an Apple laptop" story. Should be fun.

Nothing (1)

fishthegeek (943099) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415663)

Products that start their lives perceived as having a very high suck factor will end their lives with much the same perception. There is little that can be done once a products suck level (read: consumer perception) has been determined.

one step closer to ... (2, Funny)

boxlight (928484) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415681)

Vista SP1 will be one step closer to a Windows that's as good as Mac OS X.


Just like Windows eventually caught up to Mac with Windows95 and then exceeded it with Windows 2000, Microsoft will once again catch up to Mac OS X with an eventual improved version of Vista that looks and feels as good.


When that time comes Apple faithful will rant "Mac's had that for 5 years!" and it won't matter anymore. Apple had better get innovating the next major killer features fast, because Microsoft is always improving.

Re:one step closer to ... (2)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415965)

Vista SP1 will be one step closer to a Windows that's as good as Mac OS X.
I don't know, for my money, Windows is (and has always been) BETTER than Mac OS. I guess I'm probably in the minority, but damn it, I don't want the OS of my choice to become like its competition, turning away from the things I liked about it.

Re:one step closer to ... (0, Flamebait)

GnarlyDoug (1109205) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416167)

Next killer features from Apple are coming out in October. At the rate that Microsoft is 'innovating' it will take them five to ten years just to get the next major OS out, let alone catch up to OS X.

For the record, I'm both an MCSD and MCSE and I was nearly an MCT as well. My Microsoft creds are among the best you will ever find. Let me now say that you don't know what you are talking about. It doesn't matter how many service packs Microsoft releases for Vista. The Windows API, the registry, security, and the underlying Windows architecture are all obsolete and in many places busted. They can't just 'fix' these problems because they are part of the whole Windows paradigm. Applications written to Windows rely on them and so Microsoft cannot change of fix them without totally breaking all the programs written for their operating systems. They can never catch up to OS X with Vista because Vista is not a solid enough foundation for them to do so with. You are not going to see history repeat itself. Microsoft is in deep trouble here because they let their Windows and Office code bases basically rot for ten years and now both are looking tired. This isn't something that can be fixed quickly. It will take Microsoft years to retool and get back on the right track, and time is no longer on their side.

when will people stop believing MS? (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415689)

Seriously,
Vista was supposed to be released in ?
Vista was proclaimed as ready... oops

How many times do people have to be fooled before they realise that the next release from MS will also be a disappointment?

On the Issue of Windows Update (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415761)

Historically, Microsoft's service packs have brought bigger changes than mere patches. With XP, SP2 changed and added a lot of things despite having had Windows Update available for years.

Nothing (-1, Redundant)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415763)

I run a Linux box at home, game on a PS3. My wife uses a Mac laptop. At work, we use Linux and Windows XP. Our IT refuses to deal with Vista.

So it means nothing to me.

Re:Nothing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416051)

Apparently it did, otherwise you wouldn't be rambling on about how cool you are to not use software from Microsoft.

The "benefits to administrators" are interesting.. (1)

Enleth (947766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415817)

From TFA:

Benefits of SP1 for administrators include the ability to use BitLocker Drive Encryption to encrypt extra local volumes besides just the C drive. Disk DeFragmenter has been enhanced to allow administrators the ability to control which volume the program defragments.

The first "enhancement" is hardly one, rather a fix for a serious flaw, but that has been poited out by others. The second one, however. is really interesting - if I recall correctly, it was possible to select individual volumes for defragmentation since Windows 95 or so - is that their new marketing technique? Omit something ridiculously obvious, that has been there for ages, in the first version - just to claim having done more and more "enhancements" in the Service Packs?

Massive drive space required (1)

MSRedfox (1043112) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415835)

For express and stand-alone deployment methods, Microsoft recommends the following:
* A minimum of 7 GB free disk space on the system partition for x86-based operating systems and a minimum of 12 GB free disk space for x64-based operating systems.

They say the drive space will only be used temporarily, and I know drive space is cheap these days. But what about people with laptops that are pushing their hard drives near the limit?

Re:Massive drive space required (1)

cnettel (836611) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415959)

There might be some (more or less) hidden option to avoid any kind of system restore checkpoint and uninstall possibility before going ahead. That should save a lot, but I wouldn't call it a wise gamble.

Generally available system requirements for previous SPs have at least assumed that you go the "keep uninstall files" route, while also keeping local copies of all the new SP files, in addition to the actually installed copy.

Re:Massive drive space required (1)

MrDoh1 (906953) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416101)

It's my understanding that the size you are referring to is the size for the full redistributable for say an administrator of a large network. Download it once and install to all the Vista PCs, no matter there version, language, etc. For instance, it includes every language that Vista has in it.

As an end-user or windows update download, it should be much, much smaller than that.

Re:Massive drive space required (1)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416115)

Then unless they can attach an external drive or mount a network drive, it sounds like they're out of luck. But that's missing the point. People with laptops aren't the ones who will be using the stand-alone deployment. Instead, they'll be using the windows update which will only require 50MB or so of space.

I guess what I'm really saying is that if they care, they'll find a way.

What VIsta means to me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415841)

Vista, a visa for the tourista!

Laptops are the key to Vista spread (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20415889)

The $500 dual core laptop with Vista home pro pre-installed is the most effective way to spread Vista - and that's exactly what's happening.
It has started a huge shift from desktop computers to laptops, just check out your local stores. I picked up a decent HP dual core, 1 GB memory, 80GB HD, DVD-RW, firewire for my daughter to replace her aging desktop.

Since Vista was pre-installed, everything works, of course. I would not want to switch over to Vista, but since it's included in the $500 laptop price, and it would cost me $160 to get an XP OEM plus my time, there is really no incentive to change it. I don't know how much HP paid for Vista, but with the $500 laptop price it felt like Vista was free.

With this price drop I suspect mass migration to laptops - at least for home users and the spread of Vista.

Family (1)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415899)

Personally I feel bad for my sister who will have to use it. I'd recomend she use Ubuntu instead, but she lives in another country and I won't be able to help her, and she doesn't feel prepared to try it on her own. I guess she would probably manage just fine, but sadly she doesn't even want to give it a shot. Oh well...

huh? (4, Funny)

catbutt (469582) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415913)

One of the most interesting questions asks if whether people should feel like that have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, a common practice with Windows users
Who wrote that sentence? Miss South Carolina?

Re:huh? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416409)

No, Miss South Carolina is a beautiful, intelligent human being who feels deep embarrassment and shame after her public humiliation. She'll work hard to make sure you don't see a mistake like that from her again in her lifetime.

Zonk, on the other hand...

Let me off this Merry-Go-Round (1)

deweycheetham (1124655) | more than 6 years ago | (#20415989)

Another patch, late as usual, that doesn't address the underlining architectural issues, and that should have been fix in the initial release. Oh, by the way, we get to play more of the "Which Build" you got game with service support.

After 25 years of this: "Let me off this Merry-Go-Round"

(I am not sure how to be more clear)

Vista SP1 Means ... (1)

VincenzoRomano (881055) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416117)

... that Microsoft should spend more money in bug fixing and for faster update release.
None can be perfect, software can always contain bugs. But being dull and dumb with bugs and security holes is deliberate stupidity.

Driving? (3, Insightful)

MenTaLguY (5483) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416169)

You know something's wrong when you're talking about driving people to use software rather than attracting them to it.

White says this ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416195)

"White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack."

Within a week of problems with WGA validation [slashdot.org] (which Windows Update requires) and, just today, evidence of the apparently high popularity of Autopatcher [slashdot.org] because of the inadequacy of Microsoft's solutions. For offline users or those at the end of a narrow network pipe Windows Update is a huge pain in the butt (no, WSUS isn't an easy solution for most people, and it's a heck of a lot of hassle if all you want to do is take a CD to update a family member's machine out of town). The rarity of service packs that roll all those patches into one download is a problem. If Microsoft wanted to help its customers better it would always provide a *single* downloadable package representing all the patches to date from the last service pack. Apple provides this sort of thing in the form of "combo updates". What's so difficult about that? They should be checking that the various patches don't interfere with previous ones anyway.

Time to dust off this old gem (1, Interesting)

Sczi (1030288) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416345)

Bah, I have had 100% software compatibility with Vista so far, and I'm even using x64 version. Yes, it's a new version, and yes, there's the possibility of incompatibilities to arise, but people need to quit being such crybabies having never even used it.

Click it and weep, boys:

http://thinktanktraining.com/vistax64 [thinktanktraining.com]

Bill Gates, if you're reading this, hook me up with a laptop, and I'll tell everyone how much I like Vista, which is true, which is the only reason why I would extend this offer.

Short list of reasons I like Vista:

* The Aero Glass theme is very nice and very clean looking.
* The start button enhancements are fantastic. I love the instant search box.
* The sidebar is very well executed, and I especially like the default picture slideshow.
* Runs great and fast for everyday use (ie, not multitasking WoW) on 1gig ram (2 is better).
* Solid as a f'n rock, and I don't say that lightly.
* "Poor" driver support is still easier than dealing with Linux, 95% automatic so far, and I'm actually fairly good with Linux.
* Window-Tab.
* Boots fast.

Suck it, haters. Vista==100% satisfaction. And I'm not fanboy, I just believe in giving credit where credit is due, and frankly I think Vista is getting a raw deal. I'll never forgive you farkers for putting me in the position of having to defend Microsoft.

-=-=-=-=-

UPDATE:

I added a new 8600gt video card ($112) and an extra 2 gigs of ram ($90 for 3gigs total) and a new AMD x2 2.2ghz chip ($65, up from a single core 1.8), and the machine just smokes. It boots fast, runs stable, etc. It now multitasks WoW like a dream with the game running at 1152x864 in a window.

I've been doing some programming in vb.net 2005, and that is going swimmingly. I tried quake 4 (which is admittedly a little older, and it sucks) but it ran smoothly. My Vista x64 Business machine (that I'm typing on) still kicks tremendous quantities of butt daily. My Vista 32 laptop still hums along quietly, ripping dvd's to my wife's ipod, pumping music to the stereo, connecting to the net from anywhere via at&t's 3g (I hate at&t, but work provided it). The laptop also has full and proper power management. My other buddy here at work has vista on his desktop here, and he doesn't even click over to his old xp machine anymore.

Overall rating: GOOD. Not great, not tremendous, not suck. GOOD. Wholly adequate with a strong hint of pleasant.

My only complaint so far is with the UAC, which I actually quite like for myself, but I hate it when I'm on the phone with people and I tell them to do something, and they INSIST on reading the damn message. Look, jerky, I told you to run the damn program, so yes allow it, please. Alternately, you could click cancel, and we can sit here and think about what it would be like if you knew how to follow instructions. Ehh.. I guess the new search kind of sucks too.

I'm with you on the marketing BS, though, like DX10 being vista only and DRM (not that it's bit me yet) and shenanigans like that. Microsoft is still evil, but when you exaggerate the problems and, in the same breath, push Linux, it comes across as desperate. Windows doesn't have to suck for Linux to be good too.

Really? (0, Flamebait)

repvik (96666) | more than 6 years ago | (#20416429)

Well, I hope that SP1 can fix the incredibly stupid problem I'm having on my LAN. I can surf teh intarweb through my linux-based router just fine. I can ping my router. I can't actually connect to the router though, via http/ssh/ftp/samba. I can't connect to other devices on my network either. All of them responds to pings, but it's impossible to connect. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE CODERS? How on earth can such a problem pass any kind of "quality control"?

vista is for noobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20416477)

Ok well since I use my Mac and love it, vista SP1 means i have to read all about you windoze users bitchin as usual about M$ shitty products and how the SP wont fix the problems and how screwed you are. Well that sux for you doesnt it :). I mean when Apple comes out w/ new versions of OSX i cant get down to my local store fast enough. You know no OS is perfect but OSX comes really close. Maybe you should crawl out from the rocks you've been under and actually try something else for a change, maybe something that just works like hmmmm say....Mac OSX. I mean if you dont like it you can always install some other third rate OS onto your very sexy Mac hardware including that bloated spaggetti mess of code that is Vista/longhorn. No confirm or deny FTW!!
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