Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Shaolin Monks May Sue Over Tale of Defeat by Ninja

Zonk posted about 7 years ago | from the bit-of-a-switch-up-from-the-usual dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 284

Socguy writes "A unique story on the CBC website details an even more unusual conflict. A Chinese Shaolin temple has demanded an apology from 'an Internet user who claimed a Japanese ninja beat its kung fu-practicing monks in a showdown.' A letter from the members of the temple, posted on the Internet on Thursday, denied the fight ever took place and called on the person who posted the claim under the name "Five minutes every day" to apologize to the temple's martial arts masters. Monks from the temple, which is located in the Songshan Mountain region of the Henan province, said they will consider legal action if he or she doesn't make a public apology."

cancel ×

284 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Someone (5, Funny)

evanbd (210358) | about 7 years ago | (#20432255)

Someone just won at Internet trolling.

Hear that, Slashdot trolls? When you get written up by Reuters, that's when you've arrived.

Re:Someone (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432335)

Naw, when you get your target to make threats of legal action in front of other people you win. This is an example of a troll achieving satori. I just pray that, like the Buddha, the troll in the story is content to return to our level and help the rest of us achieve enlightenment.

Or, at least... (1)

hummassa (157160) | about 7 years ago | (#20432619)

That the Shaolin monks don't try something more ... physical towards the troll. ;-)

The case (5, Funny)

FinchWorld (845331) | about 7 years ago | (#20432417)

If that case ever gets any where I know I'd like to precide over it.

"I'm sorry but theres only one possible answer to all this"

Ninjas descend from ceiling and take a stance.

"Round one! FIGHT!"

[Much later]

And then, just as it seemed the fighting would come to a conclusion, a ship flying a skull and cross bones moored at the local pier...

In the words of Judge Kozinski... (3, Funny)

Elemenope (905108) | about 7 years ago | (#20432561)

"The parties are advised to chill."

On the other hand, Buddhist monks spend a decent amount of their studies on the subject of humor, so maybe this is simply the single greatest cultural practical joke ever perpetrated...a Zen masterpiece.

Re:In the words of Judge Kozinski... (1)

Cctoide (923843) | about 7 years ago | (#20432787)

Shaolin Monks are suing Aqua? What did they do now, release a song called "Shaolin Girl"?

Wouldn't happen that way (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432793)

Ninjas were assassins used in feudal Japan and as such, if they were seen, they'd already failed.

What happened with a Ninja, you would simply be found dead the next morning. Or perhaps never found. That was a successful Ninja. I train in a Japanese system based on fighting styles used in the 15th and 16th century and just for fun, we'll try a few simple techniques that are/were attributed to Ninjas. Now I suspect there really were never Ninjas, but I'll play along for 2 hours to have some fun.

Typical is that as you walk by somebody (opposite way), if you grab their arm and yank straight down, they will fall. It seems like it shouldn't work, but it does. And it only works if the person doesn't expect it. If you fall backwards quickly like that, you'll be stunned for a second or two. If the attacker has a knife, you could be dead within seconds. That's (to me) the essence of Ninja stuff. Quiet, and striking when your guard is down, and then they're gone.

Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.

Re:Wouldn't happen that way (2, Interesting)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | about 7 years ago | (#20432885)

If that's the essence of ninja, then someone's pulling your leg (ha ha) or you are pulling ours. If the ninja has a knife, why not just stab the victim in the first place? Why not throw the knife? Why go thru the extra steps of, first, walking past the victime, and second, yanking his arm?

Seems more like a mall ninja tactic, what you describe.

Re:Wouldn't happen that way (5, Interesting)

jahudabudy (714731) | about 7 years ago | (#20433613)

Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.

And just like the cowboy myth, and probably Arthurian legend, there is some historical basis for the ninja legend as well. I have studied (in an informal manner) feudal Japanese samurai culture, and run across some material related to ninja. Ninja basically began as traditional samurai that operated outside the code of Bushido in order to defeat their enemy. One almost certainly apocryphal story I ran across related the origin of "ninja" as follows:
It was considered a great honor for a samurai in an army attacking a city to be the first one across the city walls. In order to be able to claim the honor of being the first across the walls when battle began, a couple of bright lads got the idea to sneak into the city the night before! It became a short step from there to sneaking inside a city before battle to plant units that would spring up behind a city's defenses, assassinate enemy leaders before battle began, etc. Eventually, a few groups or even clans became willing to hire themselves out to perform such "dishonorable" actions, which naturally became more sophisticated as the "ninjas" gained experience in this type of warfare. But just like any other criminal organization, they didn't exactly advertise; this secrecy is probably what began the myth of the ninja, which was then exaggerated by the clans themselves as a form of PR. But I don't think there is any real consensus on the origin, or even exact role, of the ninja in Japanese society. The very nature of the myth itself makes it difficult to disprove. "The fact that you know nothing about this secret society of invisible assassins merely proves how good they really were!"

Re:Someone (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | about 7 years ago | (#20432989)

When you get written up by Reuters, that's when you've arrived.
Hehe. And 2 weeks ago, another wacky Slashprank [dhnet.be] was [votrejournal.be] all [lalibre.be] over [lequotidiendenamur.be] Belgium's [feedbooster.net] press [7sur7.be] and TV [alinfini.be] .

(Yep, even TV. And yep, they even did showed that glaring goatse on screen. Pixelated, but still clearly recognizable...)

In addition... (5, Funny)

mdenham (747985) | about 7 years ago | (#20432257)

The monks also stated that this alleged ninja must be produced for execution by means of the five-point palm exploding heart technique.

Re:In addition... (5, Funny)

thej1nx (763573) | about 7 years ago | (#20432281)

This just in :


Allesged Ninja has started training to master the One-point forearm indestructible defensive shield of Heavenly protection technique to counter the five-point palm exploding heart technique attack!

Pirates have issued an official statement claiming "they will still manage to get both of the other parties, although they are not sure about the role of monks in the conflict! Arrrrr!"

Re:In addition... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432313)

Mod parent down, (Score: -1, Misremembering Fictional Kung-fu).

Shaolin monks don't know the five point palm exploding heart technique, which is why Pai Mei was able to use it to massacre a Shaolin temple. Only Pai Mei knows the technique and he teaches it to no one. That is, except...

Re:In addition... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432393)

I heard the monks will challenge the ninjas to a rematch, but this time they'll field their wrinkly little bald monk who sweeps the temple.

Re:In addition... (2)

KiloByte (825081) | about 7 years ago | (#20432799)

I heard the monks will challenge the ninjas to a rematch, but this time they'll field their wrinkly little bald monk who sweeps the temple.
So, they're really desperate; they wouldn't draw their biggest gun otherwise.

Better way to get the apology... (1)

advocate_one (662832) | about 7 years ago | (#20432261)

just turn up at his door and demand the apology be typed in... why mess about with lawyers... come on, you're Shaolin Monks... you don't need lawyers..

Re:Better way to get the apology... (3, Funny)

thej1nx (763573) | about 7 years ago | (#20432509)

Dude! What are you talking about??? Even the Shaolin monks respect the sheer deadly destructive powers of a *LAWYER*!!!


Rest assured that if the internet posting was about a *LAWYER* singlehandedly defeating and laying waste to all of the shaolin temple, there would be no refutal at all!

A lawyer would simply get end up showing prior art and a patent-in-progress filed on all of their techniques and get an injunction against the shaolin monks practicing their kung-fu!

Fear the deadly powers of a *LAWYER*!!!

Re:Better way to get the apology... (1)

kaizokuace (1082079) | about 7 years ago | (#20432691)

the Shao-Lin monks and techniques ARE the prior-art!

Re:Better way to get the apology... (3, Funny)

SQL Error (16383) | about 7 years ago | (#20433511)

Lawyers? Hah. My monkeys will eat your legal documents and poop on your expensive shoes.

Fear the monkeys!

Even better... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432697)

Shaolin Lawyer... coming to a cinema near you.

Shaolin Lawyer (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | about 7 years ago | (#20433171)

I hope Stephen Chow reads Slashdot.

Re:Better way to get the apology... (2, Funny)

dbIII (701233) | about 7 years ago | (#20433103)

come on, you're Shaolin Monks... you don't need lawyers..

Even Shaolin Monks have to be scared of something.

Re:Better way to get the apology... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433111)

They are obviously afraid that the ninja would kick their butts. And now everybody can see that. They must clearly be disoriented from their last butt-kicking. Way to go, monks!

Uhh (1)

alzoron (210577) | about 7 years ago | (#20432277)

If they're this upset over a potential loss of honor and respect they would get from the ninja story, I'd hate to see what they do in response to what they get for pulling this stunt.

Re:Uhh (3, Insightful)

pwolk (912457) | about 7 years ago | (#20432323)

Both the showdown and the demand for an apology appear to be in stark contrast with the usual composure of both ninja and kung-fu practicing monks. Indeed file under "funny", and funny only.

Re:Uhh (1)

sayfawa (1099071) | about 7 years ago | (#20432345)

Indeed. I kind of fear what their reaction is going to be when they see their fighting skills unfavourably compared to those of pirates and monkey robots.

Monkey robots ftw.

Crazy monks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432279)

A ninja couldn't beat a kung-fu monk? Highly unlikely [realultimatepower.net] .

The Year is 2007 (5, Insightful)

Nymz (905908) | about 7 years ago | (#20432297)

The idea of a Shaolin Monk 'considering' legal action, in order to defend himself against a single bulletin board poster, just doesn't have the same impact, when we live in a day and age where another group of religious fighters abduct real reporters, cut of their heads, and post the video with all gurgling noises included, to the internet.

Of course it's untrue. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432299)

Ninjas couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack.

This is just a cover story to draw attention away from the fact that several Shaolin Temples, were in fact, recently plundered by pirates.

Pirates rule.

Re:Of course it's untrue. (1, Funny)

DarkIye (875062) | about 7 years ago | (#20432353)

Mod parent up, (Score: +1, ARRR).

Tag: pirates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432389)

That is all.

Re:Of course it's untrue. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432453)

And you wonder why their temples bin plundered? It is because pirates do be the natural enemy of lawyers. It is true, pirates be holy creatures [wellingtongrey.net] . Arr!

Re:Of course it's untrue. (5, Funny)

ByteSlicer (735276) | about 7 years ago | (#20432679)

They were plundered by copyright infringers. Sheez, when will you people learn...

Re:Of course it's untrue. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433175)

copyright infringers rule then

Re:Of course it's untrue. (1)

kaizokuace (1082079) | about 7 years ago | (#20432711)

dude they are monks they live the simple life. Nothing for the pirates to plunder! Well, except for the Orb of Shao-Lin Knowledge +5! Kung Fu Pirates! Ninjas don't stand a chance for sure now! omg! I cant stop using exclamation marks!

Pirates (3, Funny)

Datamonstar (845886) | about 7 years ago | (#20432341)

What the hell do the Pirates have to say about all of this?

Re:Pirates (2, Funny)

MacroRex (548024) | about 7 years ago | (#20432365)

Depends. Are they zombie pirates or regular ones?

Re:Pirates (1)

HillaryWBush (882804) | about 7 years ago | (#20432387)

Take a look around. It's either Finland or it's past both of our bedtimes.

Re:Pirates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432367)

Ahhrrr...

or words to that effect.

Re:Pirates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432369)

They'll be taken down by a DMCA notice soon enough.

Re:Pirates (1)

Ren.Tamek (898017) | about 7 years ago | (#20433393)

"Yarrrrr!"

just a warning to others (5, Funny)

choseph (1024971) | about 7 years ago | (#20432357)

They're just threatening early to discourage people from getting the truth out about the Chuck Norris showdown.

Next time... (4, Funny)

tcdk (173945) | about 7 years ago | (#20432407)

1. Record the event
2. Post on YouTube
3. Have Large TV network steal it
4. Post that on YouTube
5. Get sued by TV network
6. Now you are a Pirate and can surely kick Ninja ass...
7. Profit (if you win the lawsuit).

Re:Next time... (3, Insightful)

kaizokuace (1082079) | about 7 years ago | (#20432731)

7. Profit (if you win the lawsuit).

Silly rabbit, this is America, the obligatory 'Profit' is only won by the lawyers themselves.

There's no way ... (1)

krou (1027572) | about 7 years ago | (#20432439)

... that this story could be true. Everyone knows that if a ninja kicks your arse, no-one would ever live to see it, let alone write about it on the internet. Of course, the writer could be the ninja himself, in which case, DON'T PISS HIM OFF!

I *so* have this one: (3, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 years ago | (#20432461)

Ballmer, in the temple, with the chair.

Re:I *so* have this one: (5, Funny)

multipartmixed (163409) | about 7 years ago | (#20432979)

Ballmer, in the temple, with the chair, at Tenagra.

The beast at Tenagra.

Stallman, with the hippy hair and the odor at Tenagra.

The Beast and Ballmer and Stallman at Tenagra.

Ballmer in the stomach.

The Beast and Stallman on the Ocean.

Re:I *so* have this one: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433055)

Oh thanks, you just made my day :D

Re:I *so* have this one: (4, Funny)

D-Cypell (446534) | about 7 years ago | (#20433299)

Temba, his ass laughed off.

Lots of BS in the martial arts world (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432503)

One of the things that frustrates me is that, although the Chinese and Japanese have known how to write for a very long time, the martial arts are very poorly documented. The result is that most of the transmission has been oral. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_tradition [wikipedia.org] Any given martial art (the monks are different) is probably passed down from father to son. Some families are willing to teach others. Some aren't. The Japanese tend to keep secerets, even from their senior students. Given the situation, it's no surprise that different martial artists have wildly different versions of the truth. The other complication is that most martial artists never fight real fights. (Point sparring doesn't count.) It is possible to spend years working on a given martial art and then discover that it is absolutely ineffective against the average street punk.

So, the question of the moment; could a single ninja beat a group of monks. It could happen. It depends on the ninja and the monks. Bear in mind though that the ninja are Japanese and the monks are Chinese so there's not a lot of opportunity for the match to happen.

Re:Lots of BS in the martial arts world (1)

am 2k (217885) | about 7 years ago | (#20432539)

Besides the secret-keeping, it's very hard to "document" martial arts. Most of them involve very complex movements that can not be properly represented in 2D drawings, pictures or text. Even though there are books about the western variants of the Asian martial arts, it's impossible to learn them by reading at home.

Re:Lots of BS in the martial arts world (1)

Oligonicella (659917) | about 7 years ago | (#20432849)

Not really. I developed an offshoot of choreographic notation when I ran my stunt group. You don't use drawings. Text works fine.

Re:Lots of BS in the martial arts world (1)

Oligonicella (659917) | about 7 years ago | (#20432879)

After finishing my first cup of coffee, I'll change my last post to say you're wrong on all counts. I have some fifty books, written by Japanese, Korean, Chinese and others on martial arts. Most have katas in them and use photo/text to describe things quite nicely. Was going to say succinctly, but you need to read the English to appreciate how wrong that would be.

You cannot learn them at home alone, though. Many things -- like sticky hand practice -- require a partner.

Re:Lots of BS in the martial arts world (2, Funny)

Cylix (55374) | about 7 years ago | (#20433609)

You are doing it wrong if you can't do sticky hand practice without a partner.

Actually, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432939)

I was thinking more about the history. It's hard to trace any given art back more than about a hundred and fifty years. For instance, there is reason to believe that Tai Chi is ancient. Good luck proving it though.

I agree that you can't really learn martial arts from a book. (I also have lots of them) WRT the guy who thinks you can learn martial arts from a book ... Dancers (who are experts in movement) can learn Tai Chi overnight. They, at least to the untrained eye, look like they are doing the form perfectly. They also have no clue about what they are doing. It's like a singer singing a song in a language they don't speak. They sound great but don't try talking to them in that language. Martial arts are about an interaction with someone else. The ability to do a plausible looking kata does not imply an understanding of how the movements are applied. If you want to treat martial arts like a dance, why not short circuit the process and just take up ballet.

Re:Lots of BS in the martial arts world (1)

Mordough (1104631) | about 7 years ago | (#20433035)

True, but it is possible for a mutant rat to teach ninjitsu to four mutant turtles... teenagers no less, with nothing but pizza in their brains

What makes them look like bigger idiots? (1)

forgoil (104808) | about 7 years ago | (#20432521)

1. Someone claiming that a Ninja defeated one of them
2. Suing someone for posting on the internet

Nuff said!

Re:What makes them look like bigger idiots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432927)

No ... it's /. for posting this article! =P

Some facts about Ninjas (5, Funny)

o2sd (1002888) | about 7 years ago | (#20432527)

These guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Facts:

1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Especially note 3 above. The Ninjas probably just went to the Shaolin Temple to talk about tea n shit, and then they just totally flipped out and killed all the monks.

Anyway, here is some more things about Ninjas.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?
A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?
A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)

 

I'd hate to be "Five Minutes a Day" (5, Funny)

bl8n8r (649187) | about 7 years ago | (#20432543)

If he retracts his statement, he'll have a bunch of angry ninjas after him. If he doesn't retract, he's got a whole temple of kung-fu masters on his ass. I can't imagine a more troubling situation.

Re:I'd hate to be "Five Minutes a Day" (1)

kaizokuace (1082079) | about 7 years ago | (#20432741)

The answer is simple, all those angry ninjas are just a bunch of sissies that think ninjas are cool and post on the tubes. Those kung-fu masters actually exist in reality and they could actually kick his ass.

Re:I'd hate to be "Five Minutes a Day" (1)

octal666 (668007) | about 7 years ago | (#20433093)

Unless, of course, he is a zombie pirate.

The True Sequence of Events (1)

selex (551564) | about 7 years ago | (#20432589)

1. Human Weapon on the History Channel does a Ninjutsu episode.
2. Bill or Jason beats a Ninjutsu master
3. Human Weapon then does the Kung Fu episode.
4. Jason beats the Kung Fu master.
5. ?
6. Profiteering by the Pirates
7. Full cycle of Ninja/Shaolin Monk/Pirate debate is complete.

Selex

Re:The True Sequence of Events (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433039)

That's funny, I recently read in the China Daily (English version) that the Human Weapon guy *lost* in the tournament to a member of one of the numerous Kung-Fu schools near Song Shan (which is actually two mountains). Makes you wonder to what lengths the truth will be twisted.

Not invincible (1)

Apreche (239272) | about 7 years ago | (#20432651)

Shaolin monks are pretty cool, and their kung-fu is very awesome. However, there seems to be this aura of invincibility around their martial arts masters. People are so amazed at their abilities that they think beating them in a fight is such a huge deal. If this is the case, how come shaolin kung-fu masters aren't winning UFC championships and such? The reason is simple. Shaolin kung-fu is easily beaten by powerful grappling just as easily as scissor beats paper. When a huge Zangeif type person grabs all their limbs and holds them to the ground, their fancy kung-fu runs out pretty quickly. There's no reason a clever ninja couldn't have also come up with clever techniques to beat monks as well.

Re:Not invincible (2, Insightful)

twelveinchbrain (312326) | about 7 years ago | (#20432717)

Grappling is suitably only for one-on-one, preferably caged and regulated, matches. A ninja would kill a grappler from a distance. An army of Shaolin monks would kill and army of grapplers in minutes.

Re:Not invincible (2, Interesting)

elborrachogato (1081195) | about 7 years ago | (#20432811)

Well ninjas use ninja stars and throwing knives so it isn't fair. C'mon, ninjas are assassins primarily, meaning, if you were to be killed by one, you probably wouldn't have seen him coming. It's like putting Fedor Emelianenko against a sniper.

Re:Not invincible (2, Interesting)

Palpitations (1092597) | about 7 years ago | (#20432901)

Interesting you bring up this point. I have spoken with several very experienced martial artists (see my other comment, here [slashdot.org] ), and one common recurring theme that came up was that a sniper was the closest thing to a ninja you could find today.

Use what's available, have the element of surprise on your side, kill without being seen, and get out safely. Sure sounds like a sniper to me. With that sentiment coming largely from someone who is highly trained in Kung Fu, has a few high caliber rifles, and sometimes carries 2 .45ACP handguns on him (to help him become one with his weapons...), I wasn't about to argue.

Re:Not invincible (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | about 7 years ago | (#20433357)

Ninjas were also on recon duty, they're just pretty much feudal era secret agents, even regarding their fiction: Magic using ninjas turn into bond-style gadgets and neither was ever really used (outside of Soviet "we have to match with that American spy gear" projects).

I don't know how many modern assassins actually use sniper rifles but there's plenty of methods.

Re:Not invincible (1)

Anomolous Cowturd (190524) | about 7 years ago | (#20432843)

Hmm.. let's analyze this:

One grappler versus one monk = grappler wins.

Equal number of grapplers versus monks = grapplers win.

Grapplers outnumber monks = grapplers win.

Monks outnumber grapplers = monks win.

Weapons versus no weapons = weapons win...

Best combo: grapplers with bayonet/assault rifle.

Re:Not invincible (1)

ardor (673957) | about 7 years ago | (#20433351)

Best combo: grapplers with bayonet/assault rifle.

Or: Chuck Norris with a M16.

Re:Not invincible (5, Informative)

Palpitations (1092597) | about 7 years ago | (#20432863)

As you touched on, one of the largest issues is that of regulated matches versus real life-or-death combat. Even with grappling - in a ring, a responsible fighter may put a lock on you that could easily destroy your joints, but only apply enough force to make you submit. The same goes for strikes.

As an example - a friend of mine is an assistant Kung Fu trainer. His Sifu has somewhere around 20 generations of Shaolin Kung Fu training behind him (as well as a style of Kung Fu that his great-great-great-great-etc. etc.-grandfather created). He started training basically as soon as he could stand, and studied under Bruce Lee for some time.

Get in a ring with him, and he'll destroy you - but you'll still walk away. Bruised, battered, and damn near ripped limb from limb, most likely wishing you had never even considered the fight, but you'll walk away in one piece. Someone who didn't know of his training tried mugging him - pulling a knife on him. By the time his attacker hit the ground he had 3 broken ribs, a fractured skull, a broken jaw, a broken leg, and an arm broken in three places (if I'm recalling correctly. I may have mixed up an arm broken in 3 places for a leg broken in 3, but the injuries are in general accurate). That was his measured response to assure that he was no longer in any sort of danger, the man could have been dead before his body dropped.

It's very hard to judge the effectiveness of one fighting style versus another unless you're looking at two people who are really out for blood.

Re:Not invincible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433301)

It's not against the rules to break bones. (fyi, the rules are generally no eye gouging, finger/toe manipulation, crotch hits, strikes to the neck or back, and certain restrictions on strikes to fallen opponents.) If Kung Fu were effective, you'd see it in the UFC today. In the early UFC days, when people had only trained one martial art and there were even fewer rules than today, kung fu was embarrassed along with all the other striking arts.

The real issue is that the mugger was untrained. There's an enormous difference between someone untrained, and someone trained in any martial art. Just as there's an enormous difference between someone trained in a traditional martial art, and someone who has done modern mixed martial arts.

Kung Fu (most types that I'm aware of; there's many different schools) does have effective strikes. They can break bones. However they're hardly unique in this regard (muy thai has proven to be the most effective striking art to train). In a real fight, however, with a trained opponent you will not have the opportunity for the clean shots required to break bones. In fact Kung Fu often trains deep stances, which are slow and give the opponent the opportunity for clean shots!

Re:Not invincible (1)

NotInfinitumLabs (1150639) | about 7 years ago | (#20433611)

Who is this Sifu you're talking about, and where does he train?

Re:Not invincible (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432919)

Outside of a ring, assuming no weapons are present (though this depends on the training of the particular MMA fighter and whether or not they are versed in weapon fighting/defense - many are) - MMA fighters are quite deadly. In fact, the ring is the only place I'd ever want to encounter an MMA fighter.

To simply call MMA fighters grapplers is a gross understatement. MMA is called that for a reason, it is a mix of disciplines. The grappling you speak of is actually a mixture of freestyle and greco roman wrestling (mostly take used for take down defense and body positioning when on the ground), muay thai clenches (positioning while standing), judo (throws after one has gained position advantage and some submissions) and jujitsu (throws and ground work/submissions). These are the clinching and ground work aspects of this style of fighting. However, these are not the only disciplines in which MMA fighters are trained.

They are also trained in the striking aspects of these and other disciplines such as boxing, kickboxing, karate, savate, etc..

Because of the Unified rules of MMA Combat there are certain rules that must be adhered to in sanctioned events in the U.S. but make no mistake - if outside of a sanctioned match with no weapons - one of these MMA fighters would be quite deadly and incredibly difficult to deal with for any combatant trained in a single discipline and possibly even multiple combatants. (As they would then be free to use biting, headbutting, eye gouging, hair pulling, strikes to and/or grabbing of the trachea, strikes to the groin, the back of the head, the spine, the kidneys, small joint manipulation, leg strikes to the head while an opponent is on the ground, etc etc.)

Then when we consider that no matter how deadly an MMA fighter, Ninja or Shaolin monk are - and although they are awesome, even they cannot defeat the awesomeness of a slug traveling at between 600fps and 5000fps fired from a distance of up to more than a mile away. In this case, of course, the pirates win.

Re:Not invincible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432725)

That's it, you're sued...

Re:Not invincible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432773)

"easily as scissor beats paper. "
not so fast your monk,
remember: PAPER beats rocks that beats scissors...

(puffsss, disappearing in the smoke of my own fart)

Re:Not invincible (1)

ddrichardson (869910) | about 7 years ago | (#20432821)

I would suggest its the same reason the very few Aikidokas compete (if any - I can't think of one) in the UFC, it conflicts with the ethos behind being a Shaolin Monk.

Re:Not invincible (1)

failedlogic (627314) | about 7 years ago | (#20432845)

The other thing to consider: death blows are illegal in UFC. Many martial arts use these as way to quickly kill or debilitate your opponent. I wouldn't want to see it otherwise, but something to consider nonetheless if you're to compare grapplers to other martial arts. And not to say grapplers don't know or can't figure it out these moves. But I'm sure there are still some moves and techniques that are not known to the public.

Re:Not invincible (1)

kaizokuace (1082079) | about 7 years ago | (#20432875)

Any real martial artist of great skill shouldn't have the desire to show off on something like UFC. The Kung Fu artists that have and sucked aren't a good measure of the art. They probably suck and need to prove themselves in some way. Plus grappling is a decent part of real Kung Fu.

Re:Not invincible (2, Insightful)

Critical Facilities (850111) | about 7 years ago | (#20433005)

I know I shouldn't feed a blatant troll here, but I just have to say that this idea of the UFC being the de facto benchmark as to how "good" a martial art(ist) is makes me laugh. Anyone who's trained seriously in martial arts will tell you that true masters would have absolutely no interest in UFC not because they're incapable of winning or afraid to compete, but because it's obvious showmanship and goes against most martial arts principles particularly "leaving fighting as a last resort". Anyone who achieves master level certainly does not do so by "proving" himself in publicized "battles", but by years and years of disciplined study and practice.

Besides, a true master of any art would never let himself get into a position where a much larger and more experienced grappler (to use your example) would have a superior position, it just wouldn't happen. It might not make great tv, but there's no way one of the "big boys" is going to get a hold of a true master, despite how much he can bench press. People forget that strength and speed are only 2 of many factors in what makes a martial artist great.

Re:Not invincible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433415)

There are so many things wrong with your post.

If you don't fight, how do you know whether you're effective? Breaking boards? Real people don't stand still like boards. It's easy to make stuff up in the classroom that won't work against a skilled opponent.

A lot of martial arts have their own sparring competitions. Why don't they also compete in the UFC?

Those martial arts that have sparring competitions often find their own techniques invalidated by the competition. An easy example is taekwondo sparring, where side kicks (such a common kick in martial arts!) proved to be too slow to be of any use, despite their board-breaking power.

The UFC is hardly about showmanship. A lot (not all, admittedly) of the fighters are serious martial artists and have very modest, honorable personalities. It's nothing like pro wrestling, even though it sometimes seems to be headed that way.

Many UFC fighters ARE masters of a traditional martial art. People don't make a big deal out of it though. It has little to do with fighting skill, so you don't hear about it much. (The exception is brazilian juijitsu, which often is mentioned, where you earn your belts only by demonstrating effectiveness in competition)

You say that a master wouldn't let a grappler get into a superior position. That's simply untrue. That's what grappling is all about!

If an opponent wants to grapple, it's nearly impossible to prevent it. All they have to do is run up to you & grab you, and now you're grappling. No matter how quick you are, you can't run backwards as fast as someone can shoot. The early UFC's, which showed martial art vs martial art, proved that grappling was unavoidable-- something of a revolution in martial arts.

Re:Not invincible (4, Informative)

svendsen (1029716) | about 7 years ago | (#20433025)

The problem with UFC is it is an event designed to favor grapplers from the start. First my background:

Uechi-Ryu Karate (hard style, Japanese)
Kick Boxing
Hwa Rang Do (koren, has your normal stuff + pressure points, grappling, weapons)
5 years as a bouncer
Aikido
And a few other styles I did has my travels took me everywhere..

Grappling in a 1v1 controlled situation is VERY strong. If I faced the grappler the odds are I would lose, why? Because a lot of my moves are fingers to the eyes, strikes to the throat, kicks to knees, groin, palm strikes to the chins to snap the neck, etc. A normal response is well ya you are trying to have 2 guys fight not kill each other. Which is the point.

In a UFC type style competition they don't train to really defend themselves in the same as other styles. The rules are designed to favor those training just to compete in UFC.

As an ex bouncer of 5 years at a college bar (300+ people a night) if you grappled someone in real life you'd be dead. Got on top of someone and their friends WILL club you with bottles, or kick your head, stabbed, etc. I did see one guy grapple someone and see the guys friend pick up a chair and smash.

Grapple someone and land on the shitty floor on glass, cement, etc. you are very likely to hurt yourself also. Grappling also requires some room to mover and shot in. You don't have that in a crowded bar. You don't need room to take your fingers and jab it into someone's throat.

This isn't to put down grappling people. They are very strong, fit, skilled, etc. From my experience in the real world grappling is not what you want to use.

Re:Not invincible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433205)

Shaolin kung-fu is easily beaten by powerful grappling just as easily as scissor beats paper... There's no reason a clever ninja couldn't have also come up with clever techniques to beat monks as well.

Or, you know, brought an automatic rifle or something, although that sounds more like gang bangers than ninjas.

Pretty much any technique is beatable by _something_ else.

Re:Not invincible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433379)

hmph! ni lai shi shi wode gong fu ba

Re:Not invincible (2, Interesting)

jma05 (897351) | about 7 years ago | (#20433455)

> If this is the case, how come shaolin kung-fu masters aren't winning UFC championships and such?

Ai yai yai. One of those YouTube arguments again? Shaolin Kung Fu is a "Martial" art. It was designed for the battle field (albeit in a firearm free era). There have been historical instances where the monks used their art to fight entire army (shaolin temple was destroyed when the army was not happy with the outcome of the first match and declared a rematch - without telling the monks first) and yes, pirates (despite an abundance of pirate jokes on this thread). The art itself has little to prove. However, it is not optimized for ring fighting (just like "powerful grappling" is when your opponents have spears, swords and bows) although it certainly had been used for the same. Besides, no single martial art style can win MMA style matches anymore. MMA is kind of a unique style now optimized for that rule sets.

Historically, most martial arts were meant to be used in conjunction with weapons (anything else was not practical at that time). In modern times, where the said weapons have lost relevance, we mostly use the unarmed aspects of the styles. Shaolin monks were great because these spiritual nerds trained early, trained a lot and trained to save their skin. Anyone who spends that much time in any rich martial art is bound to be awesome. The modern monks are mostly performers that the Chinese govt sanctioned after the success of the movies of the temple.

> There's no reason a clever ninja couldn't have also come up with clever techniques to beat monks as well.

Sure, Ninja's were said to kill silently - and that can be done on anyone. But one thing they never did was have challenge matches.

ninja's "calling out" shaolin monks? (4, Interesting)

kae_verens (523642) | about 7 years ago | (#20432767)

Ninja's do not do competitions. This is something that Maasaki Hatsumi has said - there will never be an official Bujinkan representative at any competition.

As for the past - why would a ninja be so stupid as to fight in a tournament? The way a ninja fights is not in the open - they sneak and kill in secret, and only fight hand-to-hand when there is no alternative.

Would a ninja beat an entire group of shaolin monks? You bet. Wait for them to go to sleep, then pick them off one by one. Easy as pie.

Re:ninja's "calling out" shaolin monks? (1)

poena.dare (306891) | about 7 years ago | (#20432829)

...but Shaolin monks never sleep unless they hear the dulcet tones of a pirate sea shanty, which means an unholy alliance between ninjas and pirates would be required to do the job!

Re:ninja's "calling out" shaolin monks? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20432851)

I was thinking of the Indiana Jones style of addressing Asian martial arts.

Fact Check (1)

likerice (1046554) | about 7 years ago | (#20432929)

There's only one Shaolin temple, even though the Songshan region is home to numerous martial arts training schools which use the name of "Shaolin." The Shaolin temple has recently taken legal action against such schools in order to preserve the integrity of its name and heritage. See: http://www.usatoday.com/money/2002-09-25-kung-fu-t rademark_x.htm [usatoday.com]

Re:Fact Check (1)

g33k5p34k (1150575) | about 7 years ago | (#20433431)

You've pretty much addressed the crux of the matter. The Chinese are EXTREMELY anally retentive about reputation, especially when it comes to reputation relative to Japan. To say that a Chinese martial arts style is inferior to a Japanese martial arts style is akin to a declaration of war. Not to mention that each individual martial arts form has their own sense of pride....

Compelled to reply by Nickname (1)

shallow monkey (155686) | about 7 years ago | (#20432965)

Okay, this is a totally contentless reply. However, the monks referenced in the article title is more or less what inspired my nickname network-time eons ago. Thus, in many ways, this is the most personal Slashdot article I have ever seen. Thanks Zonk. -- The one true Shallow Monkey

In Related News (1)

infonography (566403) | about 7 years ago | (#20433015)

Ninjas beat The Tick in a fight. Arthur unavailable for comment. Wikipedia Entry [wikipedia.org] alleged tainted by Ninja employees. 'SPOOOOON' catch phrase reportedly up for sale on Ebay.

This is Barry (the Tick) reporting.

Well at least its Shaolin Monks... (1)

Phrogman (80473) | about 7 years ago | (#20433031)

"Five Minutes a Day" can at least be assured that the Shaolin Temple won't be sending Ninjas after them...

You might not be able to beat a Shaolin Master, but at least you will be likely to see them first :P

Bullshit (2, Insightful)

Mystery00 (1100379) | about 7 years ago | (#20433123)

I call this story most probably mostly or completely bullshit .

Even if there is some truth to this, there's something else going on in the background, I seriously doubt any self-respecting monk would bother suing over some online comment. It doesn't make sense to me.

pirates (1)

rgaginol (950787) | about 7 years ago | (#20433177)

And after all the attention Shaolin monks are now receiving, the host of world wide pirates and ninjas have now ended their long time animosity and joined forces to defeat all Shaolin monks. It was a great fight, quite funny actually. I guess you had to be there.

Ah, Grasshopper ... (2, Funny)

constantnormal (512494) | about 7 years ago | (#20433209)

... until you can snatch the pebble from my palm, you will be pursued by lawyers and other creatures of the night.

I wonder what kind of process server Shaolin monks would use to serve notice to a ninja? I seems this might be the basis for a TV sitcom, with each episode having the hapless process server falling back to devise a new approach to sneak up on the ninja and serve the papers.

You have disgraced me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20433321)

You have disgraced me, my family, and the Shaolin Temple.
Prepare to die!
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>