Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Chinese Military Hacked Into Pentagon

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the scan-the-port-slowly dept.

Security 405

iFrated informs us of a successful penetration of US Defense Department computers by the Chinese military last June. From the article: "The Pentagon acknowledged shutting down part of a computer system serving the office of Robert Gates, defense secretary, but declined to say who it believed was behind the attack. Current and former officials have told the Financial Times an internal investigation has revealed that the incursion came from the [Chinese] People's Liberation Army. One senior US official said the Pentagon had pinpointed the exact origins of the attack. Another person familiar with the event said there was a 'very high level of confidence... trending towards total certainty' that the PLA was responsible." The PLA is also accused of breaking into German government computers, including a network in the office of the Chancellor.

cancel ×

405 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Sanctions (2, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458907)

Here's the deal.... While I acknowledge that there is a potential risk of engagement (and the big Navy folks desperately want this possibility to be the case), I have a tough time thinking that China will allow the PLA to escalate this much given the financial commitments that Chinese industry is trying to maintain and expand with the West..... especially prior to the Olympics. That said, I expect more "defense" related activity in the guise of IT based attacks and probes from the PLA rather than traditional military actions in the future.

It will be interesting to see just what form the response to these sorts of attacks will take. Hard-liners will want old school military war games and confrontation, but I suspect steps like US and EU invalidation of Chinese purchased US and EU debt and economic sanctions will be far more effective.

Re:Sanctions (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20458979)

I don't really see anything coming out of this. It sounds more like a pissing contest to me than anything else, and I'd be more concerned about their other capabilities (e.g. nuclear warheads, lasers that can shoot down satellites ala Cardinal of the Kremlin, Chinese economy) than how well they can hack into some bigwigs computer.

Additionally, there seems to be enough doubt as to provide "plausible" deniability, or it could just be attributed to "...someone's unilateral wet dream" (quoted from Enemy of the State). Seems too small to make a big deal out of, to this observer at any rate; who knows what they're not telling us...

Re:Sanctions (3, Insightful)

heretic108 (454817) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459321)

I don't really see anything coming out of this. It sounds more like a pissing contest to me than anything else, and I'd be more concerned about their other capabilities (e.g. nuclear warheads, lasers that can shoot down satellites ala Cardinal of the Kremlin, Chinese economy) than how well they can hack into some bigwigs computer.


The problem: if the Chinese military can get enough control over Pentagon computers, then it doesn't really matter what their own hardware capabilities are, they'll be able to deploy some US military hardware for their own objectives.

Re:Sanctions (1)

pravuil (975319) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459777)

Yeah, it does seem too small considering the type of attack. Sounds to me that some individual wanted to test their skills or at least test the security of Pentagon computers. Could be that a computer from the PLA was used as a proxy. That's more of a possibility. While I hate to even suggest this, it might mean that there are people out there instigating conflict between countries. That in itself could mean that terrorism has taken a new form. I really hate using that word but considering the parties involved and what would be at stake if there was a conflict between the two, it seems plausible that there would be a third party involved.

It really is hard to say whether the China is responsible or not after reading both articles. I don't know what kind of security policies they use within their government and I don't really care to know. Unfortunately, how they handle hackers is ultimately their own business. How we deal with our own data gathering policies is another story altogether. IMHO, I think America's paranoia finally caught up with us. It's too early to say what will happen. This is an isolated event and I doubt anything serious would come from this. To be honest with everyone, I don't like where any of this is going. I hate using this adage but if only the strongest survive then it means that death will be the only thing the strongest will see for quite a long time. What good is that?

Re:Sanctions (1)

killdozer3k (779295) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458991)

Its an act of war. But ehy are long-game players and the USA plays too short. they have bought in deep into the old USA with T-bonds and so on. While they work to dismantle it. If we were smarter we would really do something big.

Re:Sanctions (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459177)

It will be interesting to see just what form the response to these sorts of attacks will take. Hard-liners will want old school military war games and confrontation, but I suspect steps like US and EU invalidation of Chinese purchased US and EU debt and economic sanctions will be far more effective.

Hold on, dude! There are enough problems with Iraq, and drums are sounding for Iran (and Korea?)... Just in case George W. gets strange ideas, have you people checked the General Strike called for 9/11/07 [everything2.com] ? It might be more even more needed now!

Why? (2, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459211)

Look, America has shifted a lot of manufacturing to China. They have a trillion dollars of ours. But so what? At this time, the chinese leadership can easily attack us, and simply bit the bullet WRT to the deficit. If they were really concerned about the deficit, they would be spending a lot of that money on cleaners for coal plants, bigger nuclear plants, equipment for cleaning up their pollution. But they are not spending 1 penny on it. Instead, they are trying to get us to GIVE them the know-how. They are not concerned with the lose of the money. It would simply be considered a minor lose, if they are able to take America (and perhaps EU) on and defeat them. If they can do it with out a war, all the better for them. BTW, you should look in at CIA.gov and check out the deficit. They take a lot of good from Japan, but not from America. My guess is that they are trying to draw Japan into being dependent on them, and separate them from us.

Re:Sanctions (1, Flamebait)

vandan (151516) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459263)

Sanctions? You've GOT to be fucking kidding, man! The US economy is based largely on importing cheap Chinese goods. The US is at the mercy of the Chinese government, who could at any time start selling BILLIONS of their US dollars and driving the currency into the dirt. The US does NOT have the upper hand here.

The military option is even more laughable. The US can't even secure Afghanistan or Iraq, 2 countries crippled by DECADES of war and sanctions. There's no way in hell the US has any prospect of even sneezing in the general direction of Bejing without their prior consent.

Re:Sanctions (2, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459345)

We could secure both Afghanistan or Iraq. The problem is, that to do it effectivly, we don't get the governments we want put in place. We end up with more of the same to no end. The idea behind putting a democracy into the mix is two fold. One, it lets the people have some say in how their countries go, and two, it makes it extremely obvious when a totalitarian group like th Taliban takes over and imposes a bunch of restrictions.

In the later case, it would be very likely that other countries would come to their aid if more then a minority of citizens wanted the democracy back. It creates a sense of stability even among chaos if it is present. If we chucked all that out the window and just went for securing the countries, it would be done by now.

Re:Sanctions (4, Insightful)

vandan (151516) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459413)

We could secure both Afghanistan or Iraq.

That's SO far from the truth that I don't know whether you're lying or incredibly deceived. The US army is at breaking point, and the situation is spiraling out of control in both occupations.

The problem is, that to do it effectivly, we don't get the governments we want put in place. We end up with more of the same to no end.

There's no such thing as a democracy under military occupation. The UN even says so.

In the later case, it would be very likely that other countries would come to their aid if more then a minority of citizens wanted the democracy back.

That statement carries the absurd assumption that some people don't want democracy. EVERYONE wants democracy, apart from the small group of people who currently have control, of course. But the majority of the population will ALWAYS support democracy AND self-determination.

If we chucked all that out the window and just went for securing the countries, it would be done by now.

You're obviously under the false impression that our aim there is to create a beautiful, blossoming democracy! It's not. It's to grab resources and set up military bases. Democracy is a word that the ruling class throw around. It's meaning in this context is, "A group of individuals of considerable power who will do our bidding". And they can't even get THAT right. But the main goal is to secure Afghanistan and Iraq, and is slipping further away from us each day.

Re:Sanctions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459517)

Um no, you're a fucking idiot.

Re:Sanctions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459581)

um no, you're the fucking faggot that has learned to use the word "idiot".

Re:Sanctions (0, Flamebait)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459295)

The Olympics dont mean a dam thing to anyone. I remember an opening ceremony but did the Olympics pass already? hehe I could careless.

Re:Sanctions (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459439)

The Olympics dont mean a dam thing to anyone. I remember an opening ceremony but did the Olympics pass already? hehe I could careless.


Manufacturers of blood transfusion equipment and anabolic steroids care.

Re:Sanctions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459311)

If we threaten debt repudiation then we have to be willing to accept massive devaluation of our currency. Actually going through with such a thing would send the dollar into free fall, so China would assume that it is an empty threat. Sanctions of some variety seem more likely, but even there I have my doubts - and unless the EU were entirely on board with it it would be suicidal to even try.

You can't play the "carrot and stick" game with Asian countries. It doesn't work, they'll smile and tell you exactly what you want to hear and nod and agree to meet again and form working groups and check off action items on a checklist - but they won't actually do anything. China especially has a huge chip on its shoulder about colonialism, I honestly don't they even consider lying to white foreign devils to be lying, it's just the way you deal with white foreign devils.

Carte Blanche (4, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458937)

What is the US going to do?

Nothing. Quite frankly China has tested the limits of both the US and UN for years, and neither the Clinton nor Bush administrations were willing or capable of doing anything. With problems in Iran, Syria, North Korea, oh and those two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US does not have the capability to swat a fly elsewhere, let alone threaten the military might of China.

China knows they can get away with such actions, so they will. If you don't believe me, look up recent actions regarding Taiwan, Tibet and East Timor, amongst other things. China also does nothing to combat the millions of dollars in lost US revenue from stolen IP, yet we give them favored trading partner status, making our trade deficit worse.

Re:Carte Blanche (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20458963)

But they did give us General Tso's chicken, which is worthy of not only favored trading partner status, but worthy of several Nobel prizes.

Re:Carte Blanche (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459075)

And Mexico gave us nachos. That's why we rewarded them with NAFTA (Canada was included for their pioneering work with Canadian bacon).

Re:Carte Blanche (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459193)

Don't forget fortune cookies, which are just as Chinese as General Tso's chicken. (Which is to say, not at all.)

Re:Carte Blanche (4, Funny)

hasbeard (982620) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459253)

I looked at a carton of General Tso's chicken at the supermarket the other day. With all the carbohydrates in it, it should probably be classified as a bio weapon.

Re:Carte Blanche (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459483)

Ironically, that, along with many other "Chinese" cuisine are virtually unknown [wikipedia.org] in China. I've never been to China proper, but I've been to Hong Kong, and I was hard pressed to find anything that resembled Westernized "Chinese" food. Even the rice is different.

Re:Carte Blanche (1)

eli pabst (948845) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459785)

As a form of protest, we should change the name to something else, like General Tommy Franks Chicken...that will teach 'em!

Re:Carte Blanche (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20458973)

I agree with what you're saying. What the US should do is hit China where it hurts most, the pocketbook. How is this done? Stop shopping at Walmart.

Re:Carte Blanche (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459099)

East Timor? Since when was China invading East Timor. Or are you confusing Indonesia with China?

It cuts both ways (5, Insightful)

Nazlfrag (1035012) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459117)

You know, America has tested Chinas resolve for years by sending hackers into its systems, yet China isn't willing or capable to do anything. With hundreds of American military bases around the world and a mass of troops in Japan, Taiwan and the rest of the Pacific, they do not have the capability to move an inch outside their borders, let alone threaten the military might of America.

Re:It cuts both ways (4, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459223)

I've seen first-hand some of the incredible technology and training we had in the military, but neither China nor the US really wants a piece of each other. That is a conflict that only ends badly pretty much for everyone.

Cut the crap (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459505)

Says who? A billion Chinese don't scare me. Just a handful of our brightest American hackers in prison do though. Hell, I lived in China. I walked the football fields of sidewalks in Tiannamen square. I love China, and the Chinese, but quite frankly, they don't have a clue about the power of Capitalism. Seriously. If they did, you and me would be posting in Mandarin right about now.

It's not arrogance, but prudence, that we knocked down Soviet satellite after satellite during the 70s and 80s, hidden from the hordes of Swanson chomping Phil Donohue pacifists at the time. Ronny, we need you now.

Free our brightest in prison, put them on the payroll, and watch their Great Firewall sizzle like a candle and two wet fingers. To quote the Gipper, "détente is what a farmer has with his turkey before Thanksgiving." I guess in the end, it really boils down to how much you're willing to spend on your next pair of Nikes.

Re:It cuts both ways (4, Interesting)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459765)

"they do not have the capability to move an inch outside their borders"

Regardless of who is in power China it has had a "foreign policy" that for 2000yrs has shown little (if any) interest in expanding China's borders.

US generals have all read and still use Sun Tzu's "art of war", I suggest you read the bit entitled "on the use of spies" before you pick a fight with the guys who turned strategic "games" into an artform.

OMG! CHINA = TEH NEW TERRORISTS!!@#$ (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459189)

They hack into pentagon! They can do anything! WE must stop them now! Take off every `zig`. FOR GREAT JUSTICE! (and taking care of that deficit thing - get rid of two stones with one bird!)

Re:Carte Blanche (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459325)

I really hope we stop doing business with China. Our greed will be the end of us.

US Military could benefit (4, Insightful)

heretic108 (454817) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459419)

Plant a few honeypot boxen around the Pentagon network, and load them up with tasty disinformation, aiming for outcomes like:
  • Making an advanced US capability seem flaky or ineffective
  • Making a flaky or undeveloped US capability seem advanced and devastating
  • Sending the Chinese into fruitless directions in R&D, costing them billions
  • Trick the Cninese into types of action that could yield up some useful intel for the US
The opportunities are endless.

Re:Carte Blanche (5, Insightful)

demachina (71715) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459479)

"Quite frankly China has tested the limits of both the US and UN for years, and neither the Clinton nor Bush administrations were willing or capable of doing anything."

What exactly do you propose the U.S. do? The Chinese are holding such huge U.S dollar reserves they could ruin the U.S. economy just by dumping them, though they would probably cause a global economic collapse and suffer as much as everyone else if they did.

The U.S. has transfered so much capital and IP to China, and we are so dependent on the steady stream of container shipping from China you pretty much have to look the other way at anything short of open warfare.

Besides which China is a Republican businessman's fantasy come true. It has a vast pool of dirt cheap labor, no labor unions, almost no business regulation, no environmental controls, and workers either keep their mouths shut or they are harshly dealt with by the state. They have one party authoritarian rule and as long as that one party is pro business, which they have been for the last couple decades, they are a Republican's wet dream. Why do you think so many big western corporations are rushing to China lock, stock and barrel. Liberal democracies sucks for business, you have to pay people more than a subsistence wage, you can't kill 4000 a year in coal mines like you can in China, you can't lock workers up if they bitch....

The new Fascist China is pure heaven for Republicans, so their is almost nothing China is going to do they are going to have a problem with including this. Most western businessman and politicians are way more fixated on kissing Chinese ass these days than they are starting some kind of confrontation with them.

Besides which when it comes to network security if you are stupid enough to put anything important on the Internet, and you can't keep it secure you kind of deserve what you get, doesn't really matter where the attack comes from.

In Soviet Amerika (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458941)

Pentagon hack into you.

Re:In Soviet Amerika (1)

Howitzer86 (964585) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459191)

The next time you say anything like this, your head will explode and take anyone else who dares mangle a Yakov Smirnoff "In Soviet Russia" joke.

Re:In Soviet Amerika (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459411)

wanker

We trust the Chinese a little too much (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20458949)

It shows here [tinyurl.com] that the Naval War College was taken down last fall (Oct?). State Department was mostly taken down last year when North Korea was saber rattling and testing rockets. I seem to remember that State's failure was attributed to an MS Word email attachment. There are other attacks using various MS and Adobe products. Then there are things like cameras, phones, and music devices. Do you think before attaching them to your system? Have you disabled wireless connections to everything?

I've heard that they were using the Macintosh operating system. [tinyurl.com]

Windows to blame? (5, Interesting)

Orthuberra (1145497) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458975)

I know this is gonna sound like a troll to some, but it isn't, imo. But with Microsoft's shared source program with governments (China's included) what if they found an exploit and and simply didn't tell Microsoft, but instead used it to their advantage. Could shared source create problems such as this? I know the military uses Windows for most of its computers (at least when I got out last year). Not sure about the ones attacked, however. Just some musings from me.

Re:Windows to blame? (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459081)

They don't need Microsoft's shared source program -- Microsoft provides the Windows source code to foreign governments pretty freely (assumedly under NDA, but it's not like that's really going to mean much to the PRC government). I'm sure the Chinese already have it. All they'd need to do is threaten do dump Windows on all their bureaucrats' machines if MS didn't pony up and let them comb through the source. They hand the source over to their own security people for verification, to make sure it's not backdoored ... but if those same security people find a fault, there's no reason why they'd notify Microsoft (or the US government) about it.

The way Microsoft provides access to source code favors whoever is (1) big enough to twist MS into give them the source in the first place, and (2) with the most resources to assign to combing through it for vulnerabilities. Just for manpower reasons alone, I suspect China wins #2 handily.

Clarification (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459107)

Rereading the GP, I think he may have been trying to make the same point I was going for; I didn't realize that Microsoft's revealing of the Windows source code to governments was part of the "Shared Source" program (I thought "Shared Source" was just the code name for their quasi-OSS stuff, available to anyone).

Re:Windows to blame? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459135)

I'm sure if China really wanted to screw with our economy they would "leak" any microsoft code they had- that would put an end to Bill's empire quite efficicntly and all those billions would need to work elsewhere. certainly that would cause the economy to shift a little, wouldnt it?

Wouldn't change a thing. (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459599)

I'm sure if China really wanted to screw with our economy they would "leak" any microsoft code they had- that would put an end to Bill's empire quite efficicntly and all those billions would need to work elsewhere. certainly that would cause the economy to shift a little, wouldnt it?
No, it wouldn't. The Windows source code has been leaked before. It caused more problems for OSS projects than it did for Microsoft. Not sure about today, but you used to be able to find it trivially on most P2P networks. Since it's not legitimately public, you can't do much of anything with it -- not if you're a legitimate business/project, anyway. And it provided a good way for Microsoft to question OSS projects that challenged their monopoly (like ReactOS); if anything played too nicely with actual MS software, they could accuse it of having leaked MS code inside, and force an expensive code audit (at best), or sue them into oblivion (at worst).

Anybody on the black hat side (or in countries that don't care about IP) who wants the Windows source already has it. The Vista source will eventually leak, too. Microsoft doesn't really care, because it's pretty hard for anyone to actually use the leaked code to compete with them in their core markets. No competitor would want to touch it, because it would open them up to lawsuits and death-by-code-audits. No OSS project wants it, for the same reasons. People don't even want to work with developers who've seen leaked MS code; the stuff's like poison. And users don't care about access to a hunk of source code -- all they want is binaries, and anyone who wants to can just get a pirated copy of Windows.

So the Chinese could do that, but it wouldn't do anything to harm Microsoft. The Windows code is out there for the taking already.

Re:Windows to blame? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459101)

Ok, I use Linux, but that doesn't make a lot of sense...

Why is Windows Shared Source more vulnerable to this type of attack than Linux and other Open Source things?

Re:Windows to blame? (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459145)

think about it five seconds.

Re:Windows to blame? (2, Informative)

jombeewoof (1107009) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459173)

Ok, I use Linux, but that doesn't make a lot of sense...

Why is Windows Shared Source more vulnerable to this type of attack than Linux and other Open Source things?
Simply put,
With thousands of eyes that have many varying goals, any security vulnerability in an "open" sourced product would be reported to the correct people many times by many different users.
Closed source projects on the other hand have very specific sets of eyes on them, with very specific goals. If a vulnerability was found it would be less likely to be reported.

that's my take on it anyway.

Re:Windows to blame? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459333)

Because Linux security is designed around the fact that people can and will view the source. Much of Windows security tends to rely on the assumption that people cannot and will not see its source.

And here... (1)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459183)

I thought you were going to say it was because they hacked into Mr. Gates' computer...

Re:Windows to blame? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459721)

OH? You didn't work in a spook house, did you! I know, because I did. What you are babbling about is security through obscurity. When I studied cryptography in university, one of the VERY FIRST things we were told, was that if this is what you used (or claimed to use) for security, then you are an idiot, and not worthy in the least of securing anything. Having a hard lock is better security (by a million times) than keeping the inner workings of your crappy lock a secret. Keeping your private information off of public networks is a real good idea. More than once I've called people attempting to put confidential information on public networks idiots. Linux is Open Source software. No one NO ONE! breaks in! I've read lots of crap about "its just as vulnerable". BULLSHIT! In thirteen years I've never had a virus! NOT ONE! And I've been on the internet the entire time. That people are using microsoft systems for secure information makes the people doing acquisition criminally liable. If they suggest microsoft again, JAIL! Get someone in there who has half a brain and half a clue.

Unclassified (3, Insightful)

ratnerstar (609443) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458981)

DoD unclass networks aren't any more secure than your standard corporate ones. Obviously, it's not good if the Chinese (or anyone) gain unauthorized access to them. But hacking something like JWICS or even SIPRnet would be much more disturbing.

Uh oh (1)

spleen_blender (949762) | more than 6 years ago | (#20458983)

Gates was probably just playing WoW and got his account hacked.

What did they hack into? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20458985)

NIPRNet? SIPRNet? Or higher?

If it was just the NIPRNet, then if the Office of the Secretary of Defense was following the correct computer security rules only unclassified information was compromised.

Issues with all this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459051)

The first is that it is impossible to KNOW exactly where the attack originated from, once it truly leaves a country. In a number of nations, there are packets taht appear to come from a country, when in reality it is coming from the edge router itself.

With that said, there is little doubt that China is doing there utmost to gain as much info about other militaries as they can. In particular, they are wanting info on submarines (how to keep them quiet and fast; American nukes and German diesel), cruise missiles (American), and Lasers( American ). Finally, they want to know exactly what we have. Since it appears that Gates is willing to hook classified systems to the net, then it pretty much made it fair games.

Sad really. This admin has helped out our enemies and our future enemies. I suspect that once Chinese leadership believes that they are close to American Military power, we will see the next global war. Hopefully, before that time, we put all of W's admin in prison.

this is bullshit! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459053)

I think we need to add a new provision to the GPL (v 3.1): NOT FOR USE BY CHINKS.

Re:this is bullshit! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459069)

If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, it seems that chinamen do not respect copyright.

Re:this is bullshit! (0, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459213)

however, if you punch him in the belly, he goes poop poop.

questions, assumptions (4, Insightful)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459077)

Questions:
* were they secured computers? You know, the ones networked via fiber in concrete-filled conduits so that the physical layer can't be compromised?
* is this even a new thing?

Assumptions:
Is everyone so sure that the US hasn't ALREADY hacked the Chinese computers?

Before everyone gets their panties in an uproar, some context would be nice.

Don't worry... (5, Funny)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459131)

This won't escalate into anything. While its true it could be seen as an act of war, we in the U.S. are not going to do anything that might jeopardize our supply of Happy Meal toys.

Re:Don't worry... (2, Insightful)

devilradish (637660) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459165)

Lead filled though they may be.

Ummm... (1)

porkThreeWays (895269) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459137)

Why does the world seem to turn a blind eye to China's crap? If a terrorist group did this, we'd be at war. But since it's China, somehow we'll work around it. It just seems like a pattern of behavior from China. Their government is 100x worse than any middle eastern country, constantly imprisoning their own people and doing horrible horrible things (including murder). And because we can get cheap toys we turn a blind eye? That's the ultimate hypocrisy.

Re:Ummm... (1)

vandan (151516) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459291)

Exactly. Not only do we turn a blind eye to their human rights abuses, but we honour them by letting them host the Olympic Games! Whenever anyone tells you that the US is acting in the name of 'freedom', remind them to follow the money trail.

Re:Ummm... (1)

OakDragon (885217) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459435)

I'm sorry, who [wikipedia.org] lets them host the games? Also, Americans don't "honour" anyone; we may "honor" someone or some thing, though...

Re:Ummm... (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459341)

It simple. They have nuclear weapons and a bigger army that can kick our American asses. They also have cheap slave labor that puts toxic materials in the products they make for us, killing our dogs, our children, and even their own babies.

Re:Ummm... (1)

geekboy642 (799087) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459633)

A larger (by the numbers) military they may have, but in a non-nuclear military confrontation with China, the US forces could absolutely decimate them. There would be NO contest. (In a nuclear fight, of course, nobody wins) The only thing to be concerned about wrt China is the massive quantity of our debt that they own. If they were to dump those bonds on the international market, they could very easily crash our markets. It would be like 1929 all over again.

Re:Ummm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459471)

cuz if they do threaten China, US will bankrupt.

"Their government is 100x worse than any middle eastern country, constantly imprisoning their own people and doing horrible horrible things (including murder). And because we can get cheap toys we turn a blind eye? That's the ultimate hypocrisy."
US imprisons their own people, and other people too, lol. and i wonder wat the CIA does. hmm, i think they bring people back to life?
u got the whole thing wrong. its not about cheap toys. its about the economy.
ur the hypocrite cuz ur blaming the US for being ignorant.
also, middle eastern countries (naturally, except saudi arabia who ISN'T A DEMOCRACY)are targeted by US cuz they have oil. some countries changed from trading in dollars(which is inflating fast) to trading in euros(which is on the rise), which takes away US power in the Middle eastern oil industry, which means that the US cannot just print more money to get oil. which means US cannot satisfy its hunger for power. which means the US is falling. fast.

the US is 1000x worse than any other country (under the surface). It is superficially the best.
you should stop getting brainwashed by the media and start thinking for urself.

and this is being told to you by a 15 year old.

btw, US hates the "terrorists" in mid east cuz they have israel to support.

my point is, try thinking for urself with solid facts. It is up to ur judgement to decide if the facts are believable. sometimes, look at opposing points of view. you might get to understand some stuff better. also, try not to be the patriot u are. don't believe everythinh the gov't or the media says. the US media only tells the facts supporting the US. so you WILL not get enough facts for thinking for urself. internet sites (news in other languages) or other people's interpretations are good.

plx be embarrassed that a 15 year old is telling u how to think and make ur own opinions and not just say what the gov't wants us to say.

It is the job of the people to correct the mistakes of the politicians.
"knowledge is power" by sir francis bacon

Re:Ummm... (1)

bdo19 (992170) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459747)

plx be embarrassed that a 15 year old is telling u how to think and make ur own opinions and not just say what the gov't wants us to say.

U are trolling and ur intellect is not as superior to everyone else's as u think.

"Hire a teenager, while they still know everything." Seriously though, the "I'm 15 and I know how to think better than you" is not going to get you anywhere. Yeah, you were 9 years old on 9/11 and you're telling me why we hate terrorists. If you have an argument, just make your argument. But stop thinking you're the only one in the world with any critical thinking ability.

my point is, try thinking for urself with solid facts.

What is your point, exactly? Because all I got was that you're smarter than us.

Re:Ummm... (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459495)

I'm agreeing with most of what you say, but why would anybody be surprised that China is using its hackers to bust in to foreign networks. Everyone, I'm confident does it, including the US trying to break into Chinese state networks.

Espionage is one of the oldest tools of civilization. Heck, even allies spy on each other. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Brits were doing the same things to the US.

Espionage, in fact, can be a very good thing for peace. The Soviets and the Americans knew so much about each others' military capacity and arsenals that neither side dreamed of an open, direct conflict. A lack of knowledge of the opposing side's capacity would have been infinitely more dangerous.

Because you almost certainly return the favour (1)

Goonie (8651) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459547)

This article [fas.org] is a few years old, but I very much doubt anything has changed except the technology has improved even further. And there's this incident [findarticles.com] .

The Chinese spy on us. We spy on them. While it's inane, expensive, and annoying, it will go on for a long time yet. Heck, the CIA spies on various European countries too...

Wire up the IDS (2, Flamebait)

Quila (201335) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459153)

Having an IDS hooked up to some missile launchers is starting to look good around now. I don't see any real difference between online war and physical war, and this was an act of war.

Re:Wire up the IDS (2, Insightful)

qbwiz (87077) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459259)

Make sure you tell the enemy first, or they won't know to avoid triggering your doomsday device.

Re:Wire up the IDS (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459279)

I don't see any real difference between online war and physical war

Get help, now. Hint: people die in one of them.

Re:Wire up the IDS (4, Insightful)

PhreakOfTime (588141) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459367)

Well, if you dont see any difference, I expect to see you in the enlistment line first thing tomorrow morning. And dont make up some BS that youve 'already served' because it will be a lie. NO SINGLE PERSON who has been in war, will make the suggestion to simply to go to war over a PC break-in.

And if you STILL dont see any difference, try the following links; http://theheretik.typepad.com/the_heretik/images/c hild_of_war_life_in_death_053005.jpg [typepad.com] http://www.videos1.informationclearinghouse.info/i mages/seven.jpg [informatio...house.info]

Those that modded this 'insightful' I would expect will be in the front of that enlistment line tomorrow, right ahead of you.

Re:Wire up the IDS (2, Informative)

sholden (12227) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459409)

Because no country has ever tried spying before in all of history.

Life would have been so much better if any spying attempt by the USSR/USA on the USA/USSR had resulted in the nukes being launched. Would have made the cold war a lot shorter anyway...

Re:Wire up the IDS (4, Funny)

Mr. Roadkill (731328) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459585)

Yeah, smart move.

I can see it now. Some wack-job malcontent who would otherwise have loaded up a truck with explosives and taken out half a federal building and its daycare centre will instead penetrate the network of a western company in China. From there, he will penetrate a Chinese low-security network, and launch an attack against the toilet paper inventory system at the Pentagon. This will trigger the IDS, and the next thing we know the United States of America launches a first-strike against the Henan branch of the People's Yak Testicle Grading Board because that's who the attacking IP address belongs to. China retaliates. The U.S.A. retaliates against the retaliation.

Still look like a good idea?

(And for fuck's sake, nobody mod this funny. Okay, the People's Yak Testicle Grading board is hilarious, but the thought of *any* automated system being hooked up to launch controls is the stuff of nightmares... especially when there's no real way to tell if the "attack" is from your opponent or someone else who wants to pin the blame on them. Someone massing troops on the border or lobbing nukes your way? Worth a military escalation. Someone probing your network? Not so much.)

Re:Wire up the IDS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459673)

Having an IDS hooked up to some missile launchers is starting to look good around now. I don't see any real difference between online war and physical war, and this was an act of war.

You would think the Chinese would be smart enough to drive next to someone's house & piggypack on their unprotected wireless connection...

Re:Wire up the IDS (2, Informative)

darkmeridian (119044) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459703)

People die in real wars. And knocking out electronics sounds great, but if you fight a war with a country that owns the bears' share of your stock, and to whom you are indebted for billions each year, and which provides a lucrative potential market for your industry, that may not be good for the economy that keeps the war machine going.

Why do you think America is on good terms with Communist China--even bringing them into the WTO--while we have an embargo on Communist Cuba? Because China doesn't execute people and steal their organs? Or because China doesn't kill religious practitioners?

Be realistic. That Tom Clancy novel you read isn't accurate anymore. How are you going to fight against the guy who's cutting you checks to fight Iraq?

Unacceptable (0, Flamebait)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459169)

Our relations with China have been completely unacceptable, this is just one more strike against them. But not to worry China, America's spineless greedy politicians will not disrupt the status quo.

I feel my nation is being sold wholesale to foreign interests that do not even share our ideology.

America's spineless greedy politicians (1)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459303)

America's spineless greedy politicians will not disrupt the status quo


I'm no fan of politicians but if the citizens of a democratic nation don't stand up for anything, they are more despicable than the politicians.

Vote Ron Paul in 2008! (0, Offtopic)

SaDan (81097) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459359)

Hey, he may not be perfect, but he's a pretty decent alternative to the other people who'd like to be in the oval office.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/ [ronpaul2008.com]

Re:Unacceptable (1)

vandan (151516) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459355)

I feel my nation is being sold wholesale to foreign interests that do not even share our ideology.

Ah, but they DO! The only difference is the way that they get there. The ruling class in the US play the 2-party-politics game, and swamp the population in propaganda to fool people into thinking they're in a democracy. In China, they've simply done away with this formality. The end effect is the same: complete lack of democracy, eroding workers' rights, real wages declining, and the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

If you want to see the US ruling class' real stance on democracy, suggest to them that we get rid of politicians, and instead vote directly for POLICIES. Then they turn purple, and rage about the tyranny of the majority [wikipedia.org]

Re:Unacceptable (5, Interesting)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459593)

and the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

      This has been the case since the first man beat up his neighbor and forced him to become his slave. This rich will ALWAYS be richer, but the poor increase their standard of living. Today being "poor" in the West means having a small tv, and a second hand car, a used fridge and electricity, and a menial job. 200 years ago it meant starvation, and it still does in some places. Your point is?

Highly Armed Nincompoops (2, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459225)

Is anyone else nervous that these clowns are armed to the teeth, with enough firepower to destroy the world and make the rubble bounce several times?

They're not just too incompetent to defend their systems (I'm sure the US penetrates the Chinese, too). But they're too dumb to refrain from penetrating each other, or just not get caught.

These are the kinds of "brinksmanships" that keep us all close to the edge of destroying each other ("ourselves"). The kinds of stupid, complicated slap-happiness that gets out of hand. And gets into killing.

Re:Highly Armed Nincompoops (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459375)

Moderation -1
    100% Troll

What, exactly, was the response I was "trolling" for? TrollMods think they're armed to the teeth with mod points.

Relax (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459523)

The troll marking simply means that you have one following you. I have at least two following me. S*&t happens.

Re:Highly Armed Nincompoops (4, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459539)

Is anyone else nervous that these clowns are armed to the teeth, with enough firepower to destroy the world and make the rubble bounce several times?

      Yes. America makes me very nervous. Oh, isn't that what you meant?

      China has around 200 nuclear weapons, compared to the US's 5000+.

Hacking vs connecting? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459243)

As Gary McKinnon showed, its not really hacking, more just connecting to default MS junk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon [wikipedia.org]

some folks leave their keys in their car (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459257)

all convenience until....

previously disallowed post(s):

many of US never look up (or ever really see anything)
(Score:?)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 03, @09:34PM
too busy getting somewhere? we could still afford to pay attention, as it is cost effective, & time efficient.

it's not as though we weren't already being treated to more misinformation than we could ever disbelieve.

infactdead corepirate nazis still WAY off track
(Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01, @09:35AM (#20433195)
it's only a matter of time/space/circumstance.

previous post:
mynuts won 'off t(r)opic'???
(Score:-1, Offtopic)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 30, @10:22AM (#20411119)
eye gas you could call this 'weather'?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8004881114 646406827 [google.com]

be careful, the whack(off)job in the next compartment may be a high RANKing corepirate nazi official.

previous post:
whoreabull corepirate nazi felons planning trips
(Score: mynuts won, robbIE's 'secret' censorship score)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01, @12:13PM (#20072457)
in orbit perhaps? we wouldn't want to be within 500 miles of the naykid furor at this power point.

better days ahead?

as in payper liesense hypenosys stock markup FraUD felons are on their way out? what a revolutionary concept.

from previous post: many demand nazi execrable stop abusing US

we the peepoles?

how is it allowed? just like corn passing through a bird's butt eye gas.

all they (the felonious execrable) want is... everything. at what cost to US?

for many of US, the only way out is up.

don't forget, for each of the creators' innocents harmed (in any way) there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/US as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile will not be available after the big flash occurs.

'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious life0cidal glowbull warmongering execrable.

some of US should consider ourselves very fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.

it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc....

as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis.

concern about the course of events that will occur should the ife0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order.

'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

\! bill gates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459335)

robert gates. likely.

keyword : jointly

suspicious.

Is Vista really the Answer to the question everyone is thinking ?

Great Powers Always Spy on Each Other (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459353)

The obvious flipside to this is, is the USA spying on Chinese computers? I would bet that we are!

With that said, to some degree, spying is something that Great Powers have historically done. But, now, in an era where public intentions are something different than the real ones, by any national actor, allowing a rival some degree of a looksee can be a useful tool.

For one, you can feed the rival disinformation, and in the USA, that's pretty easy to do. We let the Chinese have a look at some "secret" Pentagon systems, then, turn around and leak that such an assault was made to the popular media. This surely gets some airplay, helping to validate the "true" nature of the Pentagon secrets. China then absorbs some made up junk as its canon, and the USA pulls a fast one. OR, the data might actually be legitimate, if we want to make sure that, for example, that our putting an extra carrier in the Persian gulf is not an act to form up a "bomb China" invasion force.

Used properly, spying can be used to win diplomatic initiatives, and to prevent wars among great powers, which, these days, would be a humanity damaging affair.

What operating system? (1)

zymano (581466) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459373)

Linux? Bsd? Billsoft?

Does anybody actually believe (2, Insightful)

denissmith (31123) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459391)

Come on....the Chinese military is capable of hacking Robert Gates' office, yet is completely incapable of obscuring their tracks? You really believe that? This is another set up situation - an insider trying to scuttle a deal, or to embarrass someone, or to effect policy in some minor way, or just to get you going. I have no doubt the office was hacked - why admit something that makes you look so incompetent, but are we really to believe that they tracked down the ACTUAL culprits? Let's ask to see the evidence, for once - they never seem to have any of that these days.

Re:Does anybody actually believe (4, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459509)

This is another set up situation

      I agree. Yet another anti-china story, in a long list of anti-china stories over the past few weeks, ever since the chinese threatened to call in the US debt when the US demanded the chinese revaluate the Yuan. More American propaganda being fed to the people, to make sure that China is slowly moved to the "axis of evil" category.

It's not very hard... (2, Funny)

theMerovingian (722983) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459415)


Everyone knows the password is "Joshua"... Just stick to the Chess simulation when you get inside the DoD servers or you could be absconded by the FBI in an unmarked panel van.

It doesn't make any sence... (4, Insightful)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459459)

Lets make a couple of assumptions..

(1) That the Pentagon doesn't have a Windows box connected to the Internet with a public IP address.
(2) That the 'hackers' are smart-enough to actually hack into the Pentagon (ergo they are not script-kiddies).

Wouldn't these hackers be smart enough to originate these attacks from some-other hacked network via an anonymous proxy? (And then delete any logs that still might point to their activities.)

At the very least I would expect a simple IP spoofing to have taken place.

This was too easy, something is up.

Re:It doesn't make any sence... (1)

Tsiangkun (746511) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459583)

interesting. I think it was too easy, suspiciously so, even with the third assumption. (3) The pentagon is staffed by the most competent people, and not, um, anything else.

Nothing's up (2, Interesting)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459713)

I've worked with military networks. No, not everything that ends in .mil is classified. Yes, they also run windows boxes. No, it doesn't require special skill to hack into that kind of network. It's very similar to breaching any ol' corporate network. Granted, the people I worked with were fairly paranoid and quite up to speed on proper security procedures. But this crack isn't the same as getting access to classified hardware.

Call me again when that happens. In the meantime - congrats, they probably found out who went to lunch with whom last Friday, or read the Navy newsletter.

Re:It doesn't make any sence... (4, Insightful)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459731)

"Lets make a couple of assumptions..

(1) That the Pentagon doesn't have a Windows box connected to the Internet with a public IP address.
Why would you make such an almost certainly erroneous assumption? The U.S. Military uses Micro$hit, as do most (all?) fortune 500 companies. There are an astounding number of incompetant "sysadmins" who think that an M$ certification is an indication that they are computer gurus. There is a reason why there is a joke about Military Intelligence being an oxymoron.

Are there some super-smart people in the military? Of course. Are there incompetant ones in positions of power as well? I don't know. Let's ask the Commander in Chief ... Oh wait ... I do know ;-)

Re:It doesn't make any sence... (3, Insightful)

thanatos_x (1086171) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459743)

I recall reading a story about attacks on one of the research labs (Los Alamos, I think). Someone noticed something was going on, the attacks were incredibly well disciplined, like a good burglar - get in, get what you can grab quickly, and get out. They didn't spend too much time on anyone thing, they just downloaded anything they could grab and got out, to repeat some other time (~2am local time)

He eventually traced their attacks to a Chinese IP, after they hopped numerous machines in the process. He turned his findings over to the CIA, and in the end got what he deserved; fired, for violating and hacking the Chinese - despite the "We'll ignore how you got this information if you just give it to us" from the CIA.

The point is I'd hope we could figure out who did it.I would hope the computer experts at the Pentagon knew a bit more about hacking/counter hacking than you, and have some idea how to trace the hacking to the root of the problem. The point is that you're assuming they didn't have to do 'work' to get the information. The article doesn't state what they did, but I imagine the Chinese and US both used methods of which the actual implementations are beyond most people on slashdot.

Of course this forgets the prime rule that most people who post on the internet have a PhD in the subject they comment on.

I'm impressed (5, Funny)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459511)

74 posts and no jokes yet about the Pentagon having a chink in their armor? I'm impressed. Honestly, I'm not sure what's scarier, this or all the cheap crap on the shelves at Wal-Mart.

Air gaps (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459629)

The secret military networks are not connected to the public internet at all. I'd like to see a hacker cross an air gap.

Still wondering what to do with that news (1)

2Bits (167227) | more than 6 years ago | (#20459699)

I really don't know what to do with that news, obviously, it's a slow news day. But this kind of things just keep on popping up every month or so. So, here's my take, before going out for a bite.

1) Everyone is scanning or hacking everyone else, big deal, get over it. And even my lowly servers get hit by port scanning and hack attempts every minute from US-based IPs, and believe it or not, some IPs are traced back to some .mil or .gov domains (those might be zombies, or they might be some stupid hacking apprentices from those agencies).

2) The US government even has spy satellite scanning every corner of the globe, sending spy and reconnaissance planes to the border of almost every nation on this planet, has spy subs to the public water zones just an inch beside the territory of every sea-bordered nations. Every country which has the capabilities is doing the same, including Russia, UK, France, Japan (Yes, Japan too, even with their constitution and commitment after WWII not to get into military shit), China, India, Canada, .... Is that news to anyone at all?

3) With the huge budget and the amount of human resources that the US DoD has, and if their system is that easy to hack by an outsider, well, too bad. They might as well consider outsourcing system management work to some other countries which might do a better job, such as India or China (doh...)

4) If your system is hacked by an outside without any physical access, shouldn't you first review your security policies first, instead of sending knee-jerk reaction to blame others? Unless this is just a setup for political games.

5) Political games, scapegoating, knee-jerk reactions, stupid employees, stupid politicians, stupid network admins, stupid journalists looking to stir up a storm in a glass of water, stupid /. submitter, stupid this and stupid that, ... exist all over the place. So, move over, nothing to see here.

And why did I bother to post at all? Stupid me!

And if they release to the American public... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20459711)

...the information that was gleaned from the break-in, why, that would put them one-up on Uncle Sam.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>