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Wii Zapper To Have Zelda Pack-In Title

Zonk posted about 7 years ago | from the shoot-the-navi-or-tingle-game-would-be-ideal dept.

Wii 104

The Wii Zapper, announced during Nintendo's keynote at this year's E3 Media event, will be released with a Zelda-themed pack-in title. Called Link's Crossbow Training, it will train up players on skills with the add-on before big-league titles aimed at the device are released. "Nintendo also announced that the Zapper will work with EA's Medal of Honor Heroes, which will feature an 'arcade mode' to make the game accessible to all age groups and skill levels, as well as 32-player multiplayer. Nintendo also dropped a reminder that the upcoming Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles will take advantage of the Zapper, as will Sega's Ghost Squad. The Zapper looks like it will have quite a selection of strong franchises to grab gamer interest when it launches."

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WOOSH! (0)

Spudtrooper (1073512) | about 7 years ago | (#20553267)

Uh, they're releasing a Zapper add-on, and they're NOT including an updated version of Duck Hunt? Way to miss the boat, Nintendo!

Re:WOOSH! (1)

BarneyL (578636) | about 7 years ago | (#20553491)

There is already a Duck Hunt style game on Wii Play though.

Re:WOOSH! (1)

doombringerltx (1109389) | about 7 years ago | (#20554515)

And they butchered it. I was really looking forward to that because Duck Hunt was easily my favorite game on NES. The game in WiiPlay is just target shooting that has that damn dog at the beginning. Its good in its own right, but sucks as an updated Duck Hunt.

Re:WOOSH! (2, Interesting)

BosstonesOwn (794949) | about 7 years ago | (#20553613)

Tell me about it ! I am so upset there is no duck hunt , and the one on the wii play disc kind of bites.

I want duck hunt and hogans alley to come back , now those were damn fun nintendo games with the gun.

Other games like , Gumshoe ,wild gunman and freedom force where great shooters for the nintendo. I would love to see these packed into a wii disc, so that we can get back to the days of fun over graphics. After all that is why the wii is dominating in even the non gamer market.

Re:WOOSH! (4, Interesting)

moderatorrater (1095745) | about 7 years ago | (#20554315)

I'm predicting the zapper will work with virtual console titles that used the light gun.

Re:WOOSH! (2, Insightful)

traindirector (1001483) | about 7 years ago | (#20561301)

I'm predicting the zapper will work with virtual console titles that used the light gun.

The "zapper" is nothing more than a piece of plastic that holds the Wiimote and Nunchuk together. For those who considered the above interesting, consider that the zapper couldn't possibly have functionally in Virtual Console games beyond that of a Wiimote other than its gun-like shape. Additionally, if Nintendo decides to add light gun titles to Virtual Console, they will have to add some type of on-screen crosshair to aid in aim; while the light gun actually processed an image of the screen area directly in front of it, the Wii Remote uses the sensor bar for calibration, meaning that the cursor on the screen isn't exactly where you're pointing; it's somewhat offset, which is why you don't see Wii titles without some type of on-screen aim indication.

It's just a gimmick! (1)

seebs (15766) | about 7 years ago | (#20553317)

... But what an awesome gimmick. I wants me one.

I have to say, the Zapper does look to be a gimmick, but WHO CARES? It looks to me like it'll be fun. I'll get one.

I also do like the idea of an FPS having an "arcade" mode. That could add a lot of replay value.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (4, Interesting)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 7 years ago | (#20553375)

Speaking of replay value, what I'd want more than anything out of an FPS, is dynamic levels. I mean we pack these things with uber-fast processors and tons of ram, can't they resolve a BSP tree or two. I mean it wouldn't have to be a very intricate random level designer, just something that can place walls, doors, windows, obstacles. Even if the levels were linear, having a random map to play on would be cool.

Not saying it would be a trivial task though, just that it would be really kickass.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

Pojut (1027544) | about 7 years ago | (#20553407)

Check out Hellgate: London. It has what you just asked for.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 7 years ago | (#20553443)

Is it out yet? Doesn't seem so. At anyrate I only own a Wii and a PS2 so I doubt it will be for me :-( hehehe

But if I got caught up on my bills a game like that [with the random level designer thingy] might persuade me to buy a new console...

Re:It's just a gimmick! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20553905)

I think Hellgate London is a PC game, so no console needed. I think people that worked on the original Diablo have been working on the game as well.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

tepples (727027) | about 7 years ago | (#20554477)

I think Hellgate London is a PC game, so no console needed.
But a lot of people will need to buy additional hardware, namely a PC that both 1. was manufactured recently and 2. runs Microsoft Windows. I'm guessing that Mac users and users of 6-year-old PCs like mine need not apply.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20555203)

Not PC vs. 0 but PC vs. console (1)

tepples (727027) | about 7 years ago | (#20573559)

I'm not comparing PC gaming to the entertainment available 100 years ago, as the Penny Arcade strip you show insinuates. I'm comparing PC gaming to console gaming. With PC gaming, you have to buy much more than you would have to buy for a console. Three kids in one household can compete in Smash Bros. with one console. But most of the top 3- or 4-player 1-machine games are console exclusives, and most of the top 3- or 4-player PC games require multiple PCs. I could plug four USB joypads through a USB hub to a PC connected to a television, but most commercial games (except possibly EA Sports titles) won't recognize more than the one with the lowest ID.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

kalirion (728907) | about 7 years ago | (#20562027)

I actually remember hearing somewhere that Hellgate was going to be a turnbased title. Has that changed? Diablo was originally going to be turnbased as well....

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

mconeone (765767) | about 7 years ago | (#20553497)

It's definitely not an easy thing to do. There is a lot of balance and atmosphere that can be lost unless painstaking work is done to perfect a random FPS map generator. Most FPS designers lean towards multiplayer to provide a dynamic experience.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 7 years ago | (#20553665)

Like I said, it wouldn't have to be super detailed, just something you haven't seen yet. And not all FPS fans are fans of multiplayer [well online play]. Would be nice to kick up the console and play on a map I haven't seen yet.

Heck, could make it a compute task, e.g. before you head to work [or bed] get the box to compute a new map [with BSP trees, light maps] then when you get back you have a new map.

I think it's definitely doable with the right clever developers.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

irc.goatse.cx troll (593289) | about 7 years ago | (#20569361)

Soldier of Fortune 2 did this, and it pretty much sucked.

The problem is really that map making is more a creative skill than anything else. Look at how many bad third party maps there are out there for games-- These were made by people actually playing the game who should know better. I doubt a random number generator could do that much better.

I get tired of the repetition as much as anyone, but I'd probably get just as tired of playing yet another randomly generated unbalanced map.

A better alternative is a game like the HalfLife mod Natural Selection -- You have an amazingly beautiful atmosphere rich base of a map with lots of balance built in as far as accesability and things to work with, but then you get variation in how the teams choose to build.

I should elaborate a sec -- NS is a FPS/RPG hybrid. Marines vs aliens, marines have a commander dropping buildings to build like turret factories, teleporters, tech upgrading, etc. Alients build their own structures.

While people run similar strategies often, the give and take lead to a dynamic experience. Unfortunately as the game evolved over the years it got more and more shortened and variation tended to go away too, but lots can be learned from the idea: Let players customize as they play, either directly as in NS's case, or indirectly as in reactively shaping the game based on users choices.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

pi_rules (123171) | about 7 years ago | (#20553691)

I mean we pack these things with uber-fast processors and tons of ram
Uhm, this article is about the Wii. Are you in the right thread?

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 7 years ago | (#20553725)

Talking about consoles in general. Though, even a Wii could generate BSP trees. it might not be something you'd want to do while sitting there. The problem with the Wii is storage. Where do you put the map data? I suppose if USB drives became the norm with the Wii you could just have the user plug in a USB drive [or stick] and store the data there.

I wouldn't mind the Wii crunching overnight to generate a new map for some FPS if it meant I'd have a new map to play on that I haven't seen before.

Visible set determination without a BSP (1)

tepples (727027) | about 7 years ago | (#20554749)

what I'd want more than anything out of an FPS, is dynamic levels. I mean we pack these things with uber-fast processors and tons of ram, can't they resolve a BSP tree or two.
Better yet, indoor games can use an engine that doesn't need a BSP because its room-to-room visibility is based on sectors linked by "portals". One of the first popular 3D engines like this was the Build engine, which powered Duke Nukem 3D. Even a Wii could handle this.

Re:Visible set determination without a BSP (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 7 years ago | (#20557105)

Eitherway, remember we were designing levels on Pentiums and P2's back in the 90s. It should be possible for a Wii to do as much as a damn Pentium.

Wants me random levels damn it... hehehe

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

Gogo0 (877020) | about 7 years ago | (#20555455)

Not to say it wouldnt shred your cheese, but randomly generated levels in games like RPGs are pretty bad.

Its very obvious when a level is randomly generated, it has none of the thought and planning that a level designer puts into a map.
Plus, you know that youre just running through a maze that the CPU made, and for some people that trivializes it.

Then again, there are a lot of people who buy dungeon crawlers and other games that consist solely of randomly generated mazes, so it certainly appeals to someone.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 7 years ago | (#20556257)

FPS not RPG. FPS == run around and shoot things. Get the blue skull key, open the door, get the red skull key, etc...

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

lpangelrob (714473) | about 7 years ago | (#20556977)

You could boot up Doom II and type in IDCLIP [neoseeker.com] , but somehow I don't think that would quite have the effect you were looking for.

Pseudocode included (1)

patio11 (857072) | about 7 years ago | (#20564513)

Dungeon createNewDoom4Dungeon() {
    Room r;
    ListOfRooms list = new ListOfRooms();
    for(int i=0;iMAX_ROOMS;i++) {
        r = new Room();
        r.getDoor().placeObjectBehindAsPlayerEnters(new Demon());
        list.add(r);
    }
    return list;
}

You know, on second thought, maybe that is what generated their levels in the first place...
   

Re:It's just a gimmick! (0, Troll)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 7 years ago | (#20553543)

The whole Wii is basically a gimmick.
But who really cares?
It's a toy, to play games with, why should it be anything but a gimmick?

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

seebs (15766) | about 7 years ago | (#20553573)

I'd have to disagree with that. A gimmick, by nature, has no substantive value; it doesn't really change anything.

The Wii remote changes things hugely. The Wii Zapper doesn't.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 7 years ago | (#20553745)

It's still a bit too soon to call the Wii remote a huge change.
Wait a few more years and see if it'll stick.
It might just be a fad or it might be the future.
We'll see when the novelty value of it is worn off.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

seebs (15766) | about 7 years ago | (#20553809)

Even if everyone loses interest, it is still a big change. Not everyone likes every big change, and some fail in the market.

Your comment about the novelty value is precisely backwards. The thing that makes the Wii remote awesome isn't that it takes a long time to get used to it; it's that you're used to it instantly. It's the opposite of novelty value.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 7 years ago | (#20554037)

Since when does being a "novelty" preclude a near-zero learning time?
The only thing "novelty" says is that it's something new. You seem to claim that something that is easy to learn can, by definition, not be a novelty?

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

seebs (15766) | about 7 years ago | (#20554255)

Novelty value is the value-of-newness. Something that you learn quickly has very little novelty value.

While the term "novelty" could in theory be used to refer to anything new, in practice, the word has overwhelmingly strong connotations of having nothing to contribute BUT that it is new. Something which actually turns out to be useful is not a novelty, even when it's new.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

Nossie (753694) | about 7 years ago | (#20553861)

if sony copies it... it was a success :)

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#20554173)

Wait a few more years and see if it'll stick.

How long are we going to have to wait? How many years did you wait after you first had a N64 controller in hand, until you decided that the analog stick will stay? Sony, in any case, did not wait long.

I can tell you right now (after having played Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition*) that I will never again go back to shooting stuff on consoles without some motion-sensing controller.

* Metroid Prime not yet out in my area

Re:It's just a gimmick! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20562443)

I agree. .... does that mean that because of the new Guncon 3 [gamersquad.com] the PS3 might get some respect over the XBox 360 (RRoD Edition)?

Yeah ... the Wii will probably outsell both put together (take a look at the units of DS sold, or even the units of PSP sold, versus total units of PS3 + 360), but I still think the PS3 is going to take a strong second place that the media seems to keep missing.

Re:It's just a gimmick! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20553563)

My god are you fucking loser.

Sounds awfully familiar... (1)

spocksbrain (1097145) | about 7 years ago | (#20554353)

Didn't everyone rush on the "wiimote is a gimmick, and the wii will never sell" bandwagon before? Now the wii has outsold the xBox360...

Re:It's just a gimmick! (1)

DeepZenPill (585656) | about 7 years ago | (#20554571)

And the Wiimote itself isn't a gimmick? But I guess people seem to like it.

Stupid Snickering Dog (1)

gzsfrk (519324) | about 7 years ago | (#20553349)

Yes, yes--all that is fine and well. But it's all meaningless until they release the Zapper's TRUE killer-app: a next-gen version of Duck Hunt. Preferably with the option of shooting your hunting companion. (They could call it the secret "Cheney" mode.)

Re:Stupid Snickering Dog (1)

NeoTerra (986979) | about 7 years ago | (#20553595)

There is already a "rendition" of duck hunt on WiiPlay, also worth the money because of the extra remote it comes with.

Re:Stupid Snickering Dog (1)

BosstonesOwn (794949) | about 7 years ago | (#20553751)

Yeah but to me the play time is way to short , i want the old 99 level duck hunt back with some updates ! Who could not love the dog coming out jumping into the brush to scare up the ducks. Hell this game started me on my love of the outdoors and even my fetish for hunting duck and quail !

Animal Crossing? (1)

tepples (727027) | about 7 years ago | (#20554691)

Yeah but to me the play time is way to short , i want the old 99 level duck hunt back with some updates ! Who could not love the dog coming out jumping into the brush to scare up the ducks. Hell this game started me on my love of the outdoors and even my fetish for hunting duck and quail !
I think it ended with Animal Crossing. If a duck is your next door neighbor, you really don't want to think about shooting more of her kind.

Re:Animal Crossing? (1)

NeoTerra (986979) | about 7 years ago | (#20554737)

Depends on if you want the next Animal Crossing rated M.

Re:Animal Crossing? (1)

Verteiron (224042) | about 7 years ago | (#20555267)

Next year, on the Wii:Animal Crossing: ARMAGEDDON

Rated M for mature audiences. Requires Nintendo Wii Zapper.

Re:Animal Crossing? (1)

rjung2k (576317) | about 7 years ago | (#20560889)

"If a duck is your next door neighbor, you really don't want to think about shooting more of her kind."

You can shoot the ducks in Wii Play.

Re:Stupid Snickering Dog (1)

VTMarik (880085) | about 7 years ago | (#20555177)

That, and a next-gen revamp/sequel to the Battle Clash/Metal Combat series.

Re:Stupid Snickering Dog (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20556951)

I case you weren't aware, in the arcade Duck Hunt (Vs. Duck Hunt), you can shoot the dog at later points in the game. It then hops back onto the screen with a crutch, leg cast, and some other bandages. Power up MAME and try for yourself. (You have to progress a little ways, and have some ammo left at the end of the stage.)

Re:Stupid Snickering Dog (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20557633)

Actually, here's a youtube vid for the non-believers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0mx9dO3BxI [youtube.com]

Re:Stupid Snickering Dog (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20565277)

Never mind shooting your companion - just let me shoot the freakin' dog!

      --- Anon

I love the name of the zapper. (3, Funny)

zsouthboy (1136757) | about 7 years ago | (#20553383)

Because I can do this.

"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate."

Re:I love the name of the zapper. (1)

Neuticle (255200) | about 7 years ago | (#20566853)

**uuuhhhhg**

/Kif Kroker.

RETURN of Captain N?! (0, Offtopic)

y86 (111726) | about 7 years ago | (#20553437)

Does this mean the return of Captain'N and princess Lana?!?!?!

Re:RETURN of Captain N?! (1)

y86 (111726) | about 7 years ago | (#20572301)

HOW IS THIS OFF TOPIC? The Zapper was the tool of Captain N......

What about the Wii Power Glove? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20553549)

It's so bad!

On my list to buy. (5, Interesting)

dada21 (163177) | about 7 years ago | (#20553641)

As the wifey and I got older, our response on regular gaming systems has fallen quite a bit. It may also have to do with the fact that we don't play for hours on end, so our skills have depreciated because of the lack of regular play, too.

Since we purhcased our Wiis (two of them, one for the home, one for travel), our relationship is stronger, we have more fun with friends, and we're just as likely to play a game versus watch TV.

We both are awaiting this because, while it is a gimmick, it adds another level of fun to the games, especially for 30-somethings. It's a great form of exercise, already, but each new "controller" option just adds that much more interest for us in the Wii. Our PS3 and X360 are only used for high def stuff, I can't remember if we even have any games left. But our Wii game purchases are consistent (used, usually, to save a few bucks), and we still get a good hour or two of gaming in a day when we don't have a lot on our plates.

Even if we don't give the new add-on two thumbs up, I'm sure it'll have a place and time in our gaming. Big props to Nintendo for keeping us involved with gaming, and still keep us competitive even against our teenage nieces and nephews who stay over on occasion.

Re:On my list to buy. (0, Troll)

brkello (642429) | about 7 years ago | (#20555823)

Oh jeez. Do you even listen to yourself? Amazing that astroturf like this gets modded up just because it is pro-Wii.

The bias is getting tiring to me on this site. If I said: Since getting an Xbox360 my relationship with my wife has gotten so much better. With all the amazing Live arcade games we spend more time together than in separate rooms. Also, because we spend so much more time together...we are having more sex thus losing tons of weight. Thank you for saving our marriage! Also, with such a huge line up of games, all our friends are dieing to come over. Even my boss comes over on weekends and plays. The Xbox360 is probably the reason why I was the youngest member of the team to ever get promoted. And last month, we had an awful rain storm. The winds were so severe it collapsed our roof. Thank god our brand new kitten was snuggled up to the warm 360 or he would have been flat! The 360 is so sturdy it barely had a scratch!

Sounds pretty silly? Yeah, that's what you sound like to me.

Re:On my list to buy. (2, Insightful)

dada21 (163177) | about 7 years ago | (#20556811)

I posted it and I was surprised by the modding myself. I just wanted to mention from a "30-something married geek" perspective that we're excited about these "gimmicks" because they do have a positive function for us, who are a significantly ignored market in general. Most of the gaming sites I check out from time-to-time seem to focus more on the teens/young adults than the mid-adults who might be a huge untapped income stream for gaming companies.

Re:On my list to buy. (1)

brkello (642429) | about 7 years ago | (#20560193)

I wouldn't be surprised...anything pro-Nintendo or pro-Apple tends to get modded that way. I guess I should just accept that...I just wish that more intelligent debate would be modded up rather than just one side all the time. I actually meant what I wrote to be funny, but of course it gets modded troll ;)

I am curious why you think a Wii Zapper is a gimmick 30 somethings should be excited for? It seems the epitome of something targeted towards younger audiences. The sort of "ooh, I get to shoot stuff with a gun" crowd. Other than the nostalgia of the light gun for the 8-bit Nintendo, I really don't see this hitting our (I'll say that even though I am not quite a 30-something yet but close enough) age group.

Don't get me wrong, I do Like Nintendo. I just don't think it is going to cure cancer and cause peace in the Middle East.

Re:On my list to buy. (1)

dada21 (163177) | about 7 years ago | (#20562939)

I wouldn't be surprised...anything pro-Nintendo or pro-Apple tends to get modded that way. I guess I should just accept that...I just wish that more intelligent debate would be modded up rather than just one side all the time. I actually meant what I wrote to be funny, but of course it gets modded troll ;)

I'm there with you, too. I've often received +4/+5 mods (which I appreciate!) that I personally think were overmoderated. I sort of wish we could gain our own mod-points by having the opportunity to unmod our own posts in exchange for moderations points useful in the same slashdot article. Sort of cool to take +3 of your own to mod others who you think deserve more rep than your post. Of course you can't mod in articles you've posted in, but that's an easy fix.

I am curious why you think a Wii Zapper is a gimmick 30 somethings should be excited for? It seems the epitome of something targeted towards younger audiences. The sort of "ooh, I get to shoot stuff with a gun" crowd. Other than the nostalgia of the light gun for the 8-bit Nintendo, I really don't see this hitting our (I'll say that even though I am not quite a 30-something yet but close enough) age group.

For us, the Wii is more than just a single-gamer system 100% of the time. We love inviting our friends over (and nieces and nephews or kids of friends) and playing anything that is remotely physically-entertaining. Having something in your hand beyond just the Wiimote makes the game that much more enjoyable.

Our living room is huge and we have everything slide-able on the hardwood to move out of the way, so 4 people in a large room, still slamming into one-another is a blast. The "gimmick" is there, but it adds to our entertainment (as much as the gimmicky guitars of GH2 or the low quality mics of SingStar on the PS2). Sometimes, the fun of a gimmick is the fact that it IS a gimmick, but as you age those fun gimmicks are just another avenue to laugh at yourself or at others.

A few years back I co-designed a small piece of hardware that went inline with a mic cable to randomly twist a singer's voice, so that good singers would "accidentally" sound like they're singing off-key. It was a hilarious gimmick at a karaoke event we'd hold monthly or so, because their voice sounded wrong in their monitors, making them think THEY were off-key. A gimmick, yes, but hilarious for those "in the know."

Laughter is what we're usually missing living in the U.S., methinks. I go to Six Flags Great America at least once a week to hit the roller coasters, and I've seen nothing but frowns and depression on the faces of people there to "have fun." Give me the gimmicks, and I'll have a blast.

Re:On my list to buy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20562601)

They might be, but it also might be that the young'ns adapt to the new interface faster, and so are an easier target market.

My wife and I are in our mid 30s. We tried the Wii at a friends house (they have kids who have one and they had to show off).

Making Miis was cute, but the pointer was not very responsive. They showed us Tennis and insisted we go a few rounds. My wife and I both play tennis, and I've have been playing video games since Pong. After a few games I have this to say:
1) The controls might be "easy to use" but that doesn't mean they are intuitive, or remotely enjoyable.
2) Wii Tennis bares as much resemblance to the actual sport as Virtua Tennis, but with less control and ease of use.
3) Not every game should have every interface, and the "Wii-Too" craze of motion "enhanced" mini-games and tacked on "map this motion to do this action" yanks me out of the game more than it immerses me in it. The motions get repetitive, and are often as connected to whats happening on screen as a button press. This reminds me of computer generated graphics. When you get things too close, but not realistic, it annoys some people (the uncanny valley or something), likewise I think that the Wii gets actions so they look like they SHOULD map to what happening on screen, but they don't, which just annoys a different group of people.

Freud would be proud of me... (1)

kitzkar (980045) | about 7 years ago | (#20553853)

I swear I read that as "Wii Zipper To Have Zelda Pack". I think I may have some issues.

Will work with... (3, Insightful)

MagicM (85041) | about 7 years ago | (#20553989)

Of course the Wii Zapper will "work with" those games. The Wii Zapper is nothing but a molded shell to hold your actual controller(s).

The real question to ask is whether a game will work with the Wii Zapper. Some games may require independent movement of the nunchuck and remote (think: pumping the nunchuck to reload a shotgun while still keeping perfect aim), which would not be possible with the two tied together in the same cradle.

Re:Will work with... (1)

tzhuge (1031302) | about 7 years ago | (#20554555)

If you're pumping a shotgun... chances are you aren't firing that shotgun. Your point is certainly valid, but I think your specific example is a poor one. If anything, the Zapper would make for a more realistic experience in the shotgun example.

Re:Will work with... (1)

colesw (951825) | about 7 years ago | (#20556261)

Maybe he explained it wrong. Think of looking at someone and the pumping a shot gun, with the zapper you you go to pump the shotgun you'll also changing where your looking. At least thats how I read it.

Re:Will work with... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20556545)

If you're pumping a shotgun... chances are you aren't firing that shotgun.
How else do you fire a 12 gauge faster than your friend's semi-auto? You can start your pump as soon as you fire the chambered round. I've seen a retired FBI agent shoot 4 clay pigeons with 4 shells using a 12 gauge pump action faster than the person next to him could miss twice with an automatic.

Re:Will work with... (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | about 7 years ago | (#20555157)

The Wii Zapper is nothing but a molded shell to hold your actual controller(s).

I was just talking to a Gamestop employee about this. I've seen the "mold holder" that just holds the controllers, but the employee mentioned something about the 'official' zapper having extra buttons or something. I don't know if that's true or what, but, there might be an actual difference.

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Will work with... (1)

kalirion (728907) | about 7 years ago | (#20562173)

Wait, I'm not too familiar with the wii, only having played with it once, but my impression was that the wiimote used motion-sensitive technology. If that's true, and the zapper is merely a holder for the wiimote, then aiming with it is no different than aiming with a mouse, isn't it? You move it until the onscreen reticle is over the target and push the trigger, instead of actually lining up a shot as you would with, say, a light gun. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Wierd Ergonomics (2, Interesting)

cpt.hugenstein (1025183) | about 7 years ago | (#20554181)

I don't know about in Japan but all the weapons I have fired through my army training always have the trigger in the rear. It may be a little odd to have the controls reversed especially for the majority populus being right handed.

I guess it would be difficult to arrange otherwise though, the nunchuk would have to be placed in the front and grip and the trigger extended rearwards.

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (1)

dkuntz (220364) | about 7 years ago | (#20554341)

Well, that goes with the bullpup design, though, having it double gripped is wierd. The UK SA80, the Steyr AUG all have the same design, grip/trigger assembly in the front, ammo behind. Makes the weapon able to have a longer barrel without making the actual length extremely long.

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (1)

Ax of Ganto (1103807) | about 7 years ago | (#20555231)

But it's still the hand in the rear that pulls the trigger. I believe grenade launcher attachments to M16s have a front handed trigger.

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (1)

cpt.hugenstein (1025183) | about 7 years ago | (#20557651)

Like the previous responce noted that both these weapons, as well as the israeli TAR-21 the ammo is located in behind but the ammo is not the primary function nor a handgrip.

The main differences between these and the 'standard' rifles like the m16/c7 are that the but is replaced with the firing assembly making it shorter. They are still made to be right had fired with the left hand on the forstock or grip.

Anyhow I am getting off topic here. The primary function is the trigger and it 'should' generally be placed for the right hand to use as most of us are right handed. I understand that its a difficult thing to accomplish due to the constraints of having to stick the analog joystick on it.

IMO firing with the right hand in front with my left hand on the back will be awkward and I believe will reduce the immersiveness of the game rather than just using the 2 seperate controllers. I would rather have a pistol grip attachment with trigger so I could aim better and have the nunchuk hang from that.

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20562761)

IMO firing with the right hand in front with my left hand on the back will be awkward and I believe will reduce the immersiveness of the game rather than just using the 2 seperate controllers. I would rather have a pistol grip attachment with trigger so I could aim better and have the nunchuk hang from that.


No problem, the PS3 has you covered:
http://www.joystiq.com/photos/time-crisis-4-and-guncon-3/316879/ [joystiq.com]
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/14/ps3-guncon-relies-on-wii-like-pointer/ [joystiq.com]

The "Subgrip" looks like its detachable and will act similar to the Nunchuck.

Sony sometimes gets things more right than people give them credit for.

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20568697)

when you say Sony, you really mean Namco right?
as Namco is the maker of TimeCrisis :-/

captcha : nonsense

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (1)

kurokaze (221063) | about 7 years ago | (#20555059)

Yeah I was thinking the same way too.. funny.. due to my army training also!

Anyway, I'm hoping that most shooters will let you reassign primary fire to either the C or Z button, and use the B button for secondary fire.
If not, the Zapper is going to feel really really weird..

Re:Wierd Ergonomics (1)

arb phd slp (1144717) | about 7 years ago | (#20559105)

The design with the nunchuck in the back is awful. I think I would have a really hard time using this. I can't think of a single real gun with a grip behind the trigger hand. I don't think it has anything to do with ambidexterity. There are plenty of real-world examples of firearms that are ambidexterous (something like the grips on the StyerAUG).

I hope someone comes out with a third-party peripheral that has a better form-factor.

Wait a minute... (1)

Megane (129182) | about 7 years ago | (#20554363)

When did Link use a crossbow?

I'm not saying he didn't use one in at least one Zelda game, just that I only remember him using a regular bow.

And for the Duck Hunt whiners, how about if one of the levels was a duck hunt. Of course PETA would probably have a shit fit. (in which case Nintendo can counter-sue for them using Mario a few months ago) And they could make Tingle be the dog, so it would be more fun to shoot him.

Re:Wait a minute... (3, Funny)

Chris Burke (6130) | about 7 years ago | (#20554525)

When did Link use a crossbow?

Never. That's why he needs the training, you see.

Thank you for linking to that article (1)

hellfire (86129) | about 7 years ago | (#20554695)

I really needed to have the cosplay image of a very stupid looking link with a cheesy slingshot burned into my retina this morning. Absolutely necessary to the whole Wii Zapper thing.

Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (2, Interesting)

sherriw (794536) | about 7 years ago | (#20554933)

I sincerely hope that Wii FPS and other shooter games like the upcoming resident evil will support the gamecube controller in addition to the remote.

Why?

The remote blows for shooters. Say you are holding the remote in your right hand- index finger on the trigger, thumb on the A button. Left hand has the nunchuck.

Ok, your left hand can move you, and access 2 buttons.

Your right hand can access the trigger, a button, and down arrow on the pad without moving. but if you want to hit the (+), (-) or other arrow buttons you have to shift your hand up the remote- screwing up your aim and taking you out of the game immersion. This is not good at all. So, with your limited access to weapons, how are you supposed to: jump, crouch, change weapons, bring up binoculars, flashlight, menu, throw a grenade/punch/knife/alternate weapon, etc, etc. Games these days needs lots of controls. Even the GC controller was pushing it.

I like the Wii, and I love Nintendo, but the wii mote is not my first choice for shooters. Others may love it. That's why I want CHOICE.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20555011)

The remote blows for shooters

Maybe the shooters you've played just don't use it properly, because Metroid Prime 3 uses it magnificently.

you have to shift your hand up the remote- screwing up your aim and taking you out of the game immersion

Because everybody knows that in real life, you can hold your aim perfectly steady while you rifle through half a dozen different weapons or use accessories. Right.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1)

archen (447353) | about 7 years ago | (#20557189)

Metroid Prime is an exclusive though, so not necessarily 100% apples to apples. Having recently purchased Resident Evil 4 for the Wii, I think there is no comparison that the wimote is superior for such games. My wife rented RE4 for the PS2 and I played it for an hour or so. It's good game to be sure, but it was just so freaking clunky using a controller. On the Wii, after a slightly awkward start at figuring out how to move the character with the nunchuck while aiming with the wiimote I was blasting through stuff at a pretty furious pace - and I don't even like shooters.

And the controller having rumble AND making sounds is actually more ingenious then I expected when actually playing such a game. Like you can get an actual audio feedback that your weapon actually loaded when you're watching other things come at you.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1)

ADRA (37398) | about 7 years ago | (#20555353)

All your points are true enough, but after playing Metriod from start to finish and absolutely loving the freedom of control, I don't think I'll ever play another dual analog piece of crap again.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1)

Orange Crush (934731) | about 7 years ago | (#20555359)

I sincerely hope that Wii FPS and other shooter games like the upcoming resident evil will support the gamecube controller in addition to the remote.

I never got in to FPS shooters for precisely the reason of controllers. How many d*mn buttons are really necessary, and how much is the result of uncreative control schemes? Metroid got it mostly right in my opinion but I had a few qualms (primarilly, the grapple beam was a little awkward, I found myself having to yank back the nunchuck several times to get it to register)

Much of the Wii's appeal to casual gamers is the pick-up and play remote vs some "thing" with a zillion buttons.

I like the Wii, and I love Nintendo, but the wii mote is not my first choice for shooters. Others may love it. That's why I want CHOICE.

Can't argue with you there. There's no reason a developer shouldn't add the option to use a classic controller if the player so desires.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1)

nicolastheadept (930317) | about 7 years ago | (#20555385)

What?
That's a load of nonsense. Due to my noobiness I was unable to finish the original version of Resident Evil 4, on the Wii version I finished easily, to the excellent controls. I think all you've been playing is Red Steel. I can't wait for Metroid Prime 3 to come out in the UK.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (5, Interesting)

Chris Burke (6130) | about 7 years ago | (#20555479)

I sincerely hope that Wii FPS and other shooter games like the upcoming resident evil will support the gamecube controller in addition to the remote.

After playing Metroid, I hope I never have to play another FPS with craptacular double-analog-stick controls again. It's FPS gaming how it should be. I'd say it's even superior to Ye Olde Mouse, at least for aiming. It doesn't allow the speedy 180s of the mouse, so the overall nod has to go to the mouse, but as far as speed, ease, and feel of aiming it's debatably better than the mouse and a billion times better than an analog thumb stick.

Your right hand can access the trigger, a button, and down arrow on the pad without moving. but if you want to hit the (+), (-) or other arrow buttons you have to shift your hand up the remote- screwing up your aim and taking you out of the game immersion. This is not good at all.

But thankfully because you're using the wiimote you can instantly re-acquire your target. This isn't like the craptastic analog aiming, where you have to try to keep the reticle over your target all the time because it takes so long to move it back so losing your aim just to switch weapons would be disastrous.

Others may love it. That's why I want CHOICE.

Having to balance a game both for slow analog control and free-form Wii aiming sounds problematic to me. If they can do it, and you insist on using the old control scheme, more power to you. I personally hope they spend any time they would have spent implementing the old scheme to instead further perfect the wiimote controls.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20555513)

The solution is for designers to ensure controls are simplified enugh that you DON'T need to press - +, etc.... Methinks you played Far Cry for Wii. Didnt yoU!!! that game sucks.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20556067)

I hope they allow people to use the Gamecube controller or classic controller too, but only because I'll slaughter them in online games. I gold medaled the WiiPlay shooting range on my first try and platinum medaled it on my third. There is no conceivable way that someone using a controller could hit a target as fast as I can with the wiimote.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1)

Khuffie (818093) | about 7 years ago | (#20556891)

One wonders if you've played Metroid Prime. Also, I've never had hitting the + or - buttons shift my aim.

Re:Wii-Mote blows for FPS... (1)

Deaney (1014409) | about 7 years ago | (#20565253)

No - the worst thing about the wiimote in an FPS is when you an itchy nose.

Suddenly your character is in stuck in a head spin for a couple of seconds leaving me feeling like I'm going to puke.

oy, they are already available (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20555243)

There are already third party "zapper" shells on sale. What's the big friggin deal about this?!?!

Aiming with the Wiimote. (2, Interesting)

Xoltri (1052470) | about 7 years ago | (#20555731)

The thing I don't like about the Wiimote for aiming in shooting games is that you are never actually aiming with the gun. You are just looking at the cursor on screen and aiming with that. In the duck-hunt-esque game on Wii Play this gets to be very confusing with 2 players because it is difficult to tell your cursors apart in the heat of battle. Plus it feels a bit 'disconnected' from your actions, where as simply pointing and shooting feels more real. With the old Zapper on NES it had the advantage of knowing exactly where you were pointing on the screen, because the frame of reference _was_ the screen itself. However with the Wiimote the sensor bar is the frame of reference and the screen doesn't matter. In my perfect Wii world the Wii Zapper would have gun sights on it similar to the old NES Zapper. Then any game using this would have a quick calibration session in the game where it shows targets for you to aim at on screen and when you shoot at them it can figure out where on the screen you are pointing with the sensor bar (sort of like calibrating a touch screen on a Windows Mobile device). This way you could remove the on screen cursor and simply aim with the gun sights on the Wii zapper. But unfortuantely based on screenshots I have seen the Wii zapper does not have any gun sights so it doesn't look like the on screen cursor will be disappearing any time soon. Guess I'll just have to get used to shooting from the hip.

Re:Aiming with the Wiimote. (1)

NonSequor (230139) | about 7 years ago | (#20556833)

You don't need the on screen cursor. I played Call of Duty without it and I did fine. Even if you do use the cursor, you shouldn't be watching it. Keep your eyes on what you want to shoot and your hand will learn to follow. It's just like a real gun. With a real gun you never use the sight unless you're shooting a stationary target. It's just a matter of observing the trajectory of your target and learning where to point the gun to intercept that target.

Re:Aiming with the Wiimote. (1)

kalirion (728907) | about 7 years ago | (#20562299)

But the point is that you're not pointing the wiimote/zapper at a the target on the screen, are you? You're just moving it until your shots start hitting the target, even if the angle is 15 degrees away from where the controller is actually pointing. Unless I'm misunderstanding somethign about the technology. FPS's like Call of Duty are fine because you always shoot at the same spot on the screen, the controller just moves the view itself (I'm assuming that's what the Wii version of CoD is like.) But try that with any game where you're view and aim are separate. Could you do the shooting range in Wii play without an onscreen reticle?

Re:Aiming with the Wiimote. (1)

NonSequor (230139) | about 7 years ago | (#20564855)

I haven't played Call of Duty for about a month so I just put it back in to double check that I'm not exaggerating my talents. I have crosshairs off and it took me a minute to find my bearings, but it's pretty much like I said, "point, shoot, kill". Your view only starts to turn once you approach the edge of the screen and you can aim freely within the center 80% of the screen. I prefer to use the non-repeating weapons because a shot to the head or torso is sufficient for a kill. I'm averaging about 5 bullets per 4 kills and as I said I haven't played in a while.

As for the Wii Play shooting range. I scored 500 points on my first time playing it so I think I could manage OK without the cursor. The cursor doesn't really help you hit the faster moving targets anyway. If you're watching the cursor you'll take too long to set up your shot.

Re:Aiming with the Wiimote. (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | about 7 years ago | (#20563337)

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I have long advocated such an addition. (So long ago, I'm not going to dig up my Dec '06 posts...) It would be pretty simple to have a calibration process so that the cursor location more closely tracks where you're really pointing. Otherwise, shooter games have to show your cursor on the screen -- which takes out a lot of the challenge and realism. Heck, the Wiimote by itself is enough to port House of the Dead 4 to the Wii (it requires you to reload by shaking the gun) without any accessories, but you couldn't have the full experience unless you could take out the on-screen cursor.

Instead, all we get is, "Sensor: above of below the screen?"

"All age groups?" (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 7 years ago | (#20556599)

"the Zapper will work with EA's Medal of Honor Heroes, which will feature an 'arcade mode' to make the game accessible to all age groups and skill levels,"

Should "all age groups" be exposed to a game that's rated T by the ESRB?

Nintendo should phrase things more carefully in light of recent scandals and Congressional interest.

Please God (1)

Jerzakie (776112) | about 7 years ago | (#20556795)

Bestow apon us the Silent Scope series... only correctly done, unlike the XBox version.

Duck Hunt? (1)

gravis777 (123605) | about 7 years ago | (#20558607)

I just got a sudden urge to go play Duck Hunt. Can't think of why.

There was also a mini-game in Wii Play that seemed oddly familer. I was shooting at balloons, clay discs and a few ducks. Of course, Nintendo is always on the leading edge of technology, they wouldn't dare to bundle something they came out with 20 years ago with their new system. This has got to be a whole new concept.

To think, I can actually use a gun to shoot at people. Take that, Wild Gunmen. Take that, Area 51. Take that, Night of the Living Dead!

Sad thing is, I will probably actually buy one. I just bought my Wii a few weeks ago and to my surprise it gets played more than three times as much as my PS3 and gaming computer combined.

Re:Duck Hunt? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#20562243)

I love comments like these. They say "I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I'm bored."

Case in point!

Re:Duck Hunt? (1)

gravis777 (123605) | about 7 years ago | (#20562377)

:-) What can I say? I work in IT as a PC tech, and lately it has been only the Macs that have been giving us trouble. I have been inventing stuff to do, but am finding myself spending WAY too much time on Slashdot. Come on, someone spill coffee on their laptop, install some piece of software that completely screws up your comptuer, or, gasps, give me a couple of blackberry setups, I am board here.

Now if I had a Wii in my cube......
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