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Canadian Bureaucrats Don't "Think Different"

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the sense-of-design dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 427

owlgorithm writes "Apple's new store in Montreal has three parking meters on the street in front of it. The city is in the middle of a campaign to reduce downtown parking. In Apple's ever-conscientious attempt to improve design, they offered to reimburse the city for the parking meters and their revenue if the city would remove them. Answer: Non — because 'We've never done it before, so we can't.'"

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You know it's a Slow newsday when ... (5, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563005)

SlAshDot Guffaw Dept.

You know it's a Slow newsday when "We've never done it before, so we can't." by Montreal burros constitutes news because it includes Apple.

Certainly they can't be ... nooooo ... can't be ... they're suggesting they've never accepted money to change the way something is done or not done? What next, Gérald Tremblay caught on camera stating he's giving up his Treo?

Next up: Microsoft's Power bill - 10,000 PC's running at the same time, is Redmond driving global warming?

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ... (0)

MLopat (848735) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563093)

Next up: Microsoft's Power bill - 10,000 PC's running at the same time, is Redmond driving global warming?


You're probably off by at least a factor of 10. Last I heard there was something like 3.4 computers per employee * ~70,000 employees would be roughly 230,000 computers.

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ... (2, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563173)

Next up: Microsoft's Power bill - 10,000 PC's running at the same time, is Redmond driving global warming?
You're probably off by at least a factor of 10. Last I heard there was something like 3.4 computers per employee * ~70,000 employees would be roughly 230,000 computers.

If you can back that up and submit it, I've got an invite to the firehose.

Seriously, we're all running more power hungry computers than ever and have strips of wall-warts under our desks, there's got to be a Technology driving Global Warming story there somewhere.

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ... (4, Funny)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563503)

Microsoft recently powered on their 100,000th /production/ /server/. Let alone test environments, and desktops.

Posted anonymously.

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ... (3, Funny)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563535)

Gah. Or not. Oops, oh well. :)

Not really a quote (5, Informative)

Jabbrwokk (1015725) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563547)

TFA is an editorial, not an article. It is the opinion of the Montreal Gazette. No bureaucrat ever said "We've never done if before, so we can't." The quote was made up to make a point in the editorial. It's not real.

If you want to read the real article, go to the source [cyberpresse.ca] (sorry, it is en francais. Run it through the Babelfish [yahoo.com] if you are desperate.)

I don't disagree that the city is being a bit obstinate, but I can see why they wouldn't want to change streetfronts on Apple's request. If they do it for them, they'll have to do it for every other downtown storefront. Besides, and I am not exaggerating, the $35,000 Apple is promising probably wouldn't even cover the cost of tasking a union city crew to remove the meters, rebuild the sidewalk and put the meters someplace else.

Re:Not really a quote (3, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563721)

Besides, and I am not exaggerating, the $35,000 Apple is promising probably wouldn't even cover the cost of tasking a union city crew to remove the meters, rebuild the sidewalk and put the meters someplace else.

There's the matter of cars taking up the spots all day, unless it's posted Car Park limit 1 Hour, also having a parking warden come along and chalk tyres and monitor vehicles where the old meter was simply expired or not. (Though were I live they keep a limit of two hours on a vehicle in the same spot, meter paid up or no.)

I don't quite get it.. (5, Insightful)

QMalcolm (1094433) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563011)

The meters are there to reduce the number of parked cars, not for revenue. Apple is offering money, not a solution to overcrowded streets.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (2, Insightful)

boobavon (857902) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563045)

If you can't park there at all, that does reduce downtown parking, right?

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1, Troll)

QMalcolm (1094433) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563077)

It sounds like the spots would still be there, but they'd be meter-less: which would make the spots in front of the Apple store very appealing. Might as well step in since it's right there. Whoops, you walked out with a new Macbook and an ipod nano!

Re:I don't quite get it.. (5, Informative)

boobavon (857902) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563089)

TFA says turn 3 meter spots into no parking zone.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (4, Insightful)

Jthon (595383) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563103)

Actually from the article it sounds like Apple would be fine with the removal of the meters and making the spaces a no parking zone. In this case the city would receive both the revenue from the meters AND a reduction in downtown parking.

It seems someone at the city has missed a way to make a buck, and fix their traffic problem.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (5, Insightful)

Phisbut (761268) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563227)

It seems someone at the city has missed a way to make a buck, and fix their traffic problem.

The city didn't miss an opportunity to make money. Apple wanted to pay the equivalent of the parking fares for the next 5 years. However, the city makes way more money from parking tickets than from parking meters.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (5, Funny)

Decado (207907) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563317)

Would have been much funnier if the city had agreed to remove the parking meters, taken the 35k and put 3 much larger and more obtrusive No Parking signs there instead.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (4, Funny)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563475)

Would have been much funnier if the city had agreed to remove the parking meters, taken the 35k and put 3 much larger and more obtrusive No Parking signs there instead.
Or perhaps one of those 3-ft tall walls with the words 'NO PARKING' stencil-sprayed on it in big 18 inch letters... :)

Oh, sorry, this is Canada..91.5 cm wall, 45.5 cm letters.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563753)

Would have been much funnier if the city had agreed to remove the parking meters, taken the 35k and put 3 much larger and more obtrusive No Parking signs there instead.

Or perhaps one of those 3-ft tall walls with the words 'NO PARKING' stencil-sprayed on it in big 18 inch letters... :)


Umm... Just make sure the sign is bilingual and that the French is much larger than the English words otherwise you face a fine and maybe a court date.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (2, Interesting)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563367)

That's an interesting idea. If that's their game though, wouldn't they make more by painting the curb yellow (no parking), or making them handicapped spaces? Or how about those ridiculous signs with three different time slots + special days, describing when the meter is/isn't in effect?

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563391)

Apple wanted to pay the equivalent of the parking fares for the next 5 years. However, the city makes way more money from parking tickets than from parking meters.


If available parking is reduced, people are more likely to park in no parking zones (which is what the spots would be turned into, right?) and presumably the fines for that are higher than the fines for overstaying a meter, so its win-win (for Apple and the city government, not for people looking for legal parking spaces.)

Re:I don't quite get it.. (2, Interesting)

nsayer (86181) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563717)

However, the city makes way more money from parking tickets than from parking meters.
You're assuming the level of compliance with no-parking zones times the average fine for violations exceeds the level of compliance with parking meters times their average violation fine.

This assumption may be valid, but then again, it may not.

And I just took an LSAT sample exam, so there. :)

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

flynt (248848) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563749)

I was about to point out the exact same thing. And I took the LSAT a few years ago, you'll do fine, don't worry.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (2, Funny)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563745)

It sounds like the spots would still be there, but they'd be meter-less: which would make the spots in front of the Apple store very appealing. Might as well step in since it's right there. Whoops, you walked out with a new Macbook and an ipod nano!

Perhaps the first day. Then the subsequent 10 years after you go to work early to park your car there taking up the space from a potential apple customer.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

Traxxas (20074) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563083)

Meters are put in high demand parking areas to increase the turnover of parking spots, thus increasing parking availability.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (2, Interesting)

vertinox (846076) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563243)

Meters are put in high demand parking areas to increase the turnover of parking spots, thus increasing parking availability.

Why not just put, "Loading and unloading only: 20 minute attended parking"?

Most larger cities designate whole blocks like that for certain areas and shops.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

pablodiazgutierrez (756813) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563563)

At least in Spain, those zones are to be used only with the appropriate permit that indicates you work delivering stuff. For the rest of us, time limited parking meters are better.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563163)

They're not trying to completely eliminate downtown parking. They actually pick which parking spots are eliminated based on criteria that's a little bit better than "Apple doesn't think it's hip."

Re:I don't quite get it.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563085)

No. If the object were to remove parked cars, a simple "no parking" sign would suffice. Or, at the extreme, the city would have refused the business permit.

This is about bureaucracy and the groupthink that typically accompanies it. Nobody wants to be accountable and

Besides, governments like to take money by compulsion, under threat of force. It's just not any fun when a willing party simply hands you the money.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (4, Funny)

Dr Caleb (121505) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563137)

So, a corporation is offering to pay money to change the law. Hmmm. I guess it's only a by-law, nothing wrong with that, is there?

Re:I don't quite get it.. (5, Funny)

NoStrings (622372) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563605)

Wouldn't that make it a buy-law?

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563141)

The meters are there to reduce the number of parked cars, not for revenue. Apple is offering money, not a solution to overcrowded streets.

I don't know what planet you live on, but most cities in the world where there are cars use parking meters to fill up their coffers. Cities that want to discourage car usage downtown either reduce the number of parking spaces, improve public transportation, use some kind of fee system to drive downtown (e.g London) or close off some street to cars, purely and simply.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563689)

The meters are there to reduce the number of parked cars, not for revenue. Apple is offering money, not a solution to overcrowded streets.

I don't know what planet you live on, but most cities in the world where there are cars use parking meters to fill up their coffers. Cities that want to discourage car usage downtown either reduce the number of parking spaces, improve public transportation, use some kind of fee system to drive downtown (e.g London) or close off some street to cars, purely and simply.
Exactly - if you want to get the cars off your street, you don't want to do anything that forces them to drive around endlessly trying to find a parking spot.

Re:I don't quite get it.. (2, Informative)

DangerousDriver (752795) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563157)

Parking meters are not intended to make much by way of direct revenue. It's the fines for not paying or exceeding the time which produces the bigger income.

No parking, Metered parking, Free parking (1, Redundant)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563225)

First, read the article, maybe that's why you "don't quite get things".

The metered spaces would be turned into a no parking zone. That's LESS cars on the street. Unless there's more to the story, it's pretty silly of the city to refuse.
No parking is less cars than Metered parking which is less cars than Free parking.

Re:No parking, Metered parking, Free parking (4, Informative)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563385)

No, that's more cars on the roads, circling around in search for a parking spot.

Re:No parking, Metered parking, Free parking (1)

vhold (175219) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563455)

It's the author of this editorial that appears to suggest removing the spaces entirely. The only suggestion made by Apple that is reported here is that the meters be removed and compensated for.

It's especially bad writing because they are framing the bureaucrats' response as being towards the author and not Apple.

Re:No parking, Metered parking, Free parking (3, Funny)

rubberglove (1066394) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563695)

Actually, from what I read, there is no clear answer of what would happen to the parking spaces if Apple got its way:
from TFA:

he idea of parking meters, besides revenue, is to keep people from parking on the street all day. The borough could do that simply by making the three-car stretch into a No Parking zone. The city is, after all, trying to reduce the number of parking spots downtown.

That is, the author of the article is making some wild-ass guess about it. The Montreal Gazette is hardly a bastion of responsible journalism. Plus, he's obviously wrong - the city of Montreal never puts up one no-parking sign when 3 or 4 will suffice [perlypalms.com] .

Besides all that, I fail to see how it would make much difference either way, given that the rue Sainte Catherine is already a parking lot most of the time.

Wouldn't removing them create a different problem? (1)

Solandri (704621) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563237)

i.e. A few cheap employees from nearby stores decide to use those spots as their daily parking spots.

Remove meters, install bike racks. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563297)

If the meters are to reduce the number of parked cars....how does that work exactly? The number of spaces doesn't change when you add a meter.

If they want to really reduce the number of parked cars they would allow Apple to remove the meters and make them put bike racks in place of the car parking spots.

Antiwar protester kills civilian, didn't fnd soldr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563325)

Disturbed anti-war protester can't find soldier, kills civilian with axe instead
Sep 11 12:52 PM US/Eastern
TOBY STERLING

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A U.S. citizen has confessed to using an axe to kill a Dutch student after failing to find a soldier to attack, his lawyer said Tuesday.

The suspect, Carlos Hartmann, 41, of Tecumseh, Mich., has confessed to the Sept. 8 killing on a train platform in the southern city of Roosendaal, defence lawyer Peter Gremmen said.

Gremmen said Hartmann wanted to punish the Netherlands for its support of the war in Iraq.

Hartmann appeared before a judge Tuesday and was ordered held for another two weeks for investigation.

"He hates soldiers, and says that the army kills people, so it would be legitimate if he were also to kill someone . . . from the American military - or from its NATO allies," Gremmen said in a telephone interview.

When he failed to find a soldier at the Roosendaal train station, "he got such a crazy, disturbed idea that he killed a civilian," Gremmen said.

Hartmann did not attempt to escape and was arrested shortly after the killing.

Dutch prosecutors confirmed that the suspect had confessed but did not identify him or his victim, in keeping with Dutch practice.

Under the Dutch legal system, Hartmann was not required to enter a plea Tuesday.

Prosecution spokeswoman Martine Pilaar said her office was taken aback by the defence lawyer's willingness to disclose details of his case.

But Gremmen said he was only confirming details published by the local newspaper BN/De Stem. The paper's source was not named, and police declined to comment.

"I was also surprised when I saw the paper; I thought, this must be coming from the investigation," the lawyer said.

Gremmen said Hartmann has lived in the Netherlands since 2002, supporting himself with English editing work for a Japanese company, which he could do by computer, and that he had no fixed address.

He said Hartmann had consented to undergo psychological testing, and was now "terribly sorry for his deed."

The victim, identified as Thijs Geers, was waiting for a train and had no connection with the suspect or the military. Online condolence registers in the Netherlands were flooded with messages of sympathy for him and his family.

BN/De Stem quoted a witness who asked to remain anonymous as describing Hartmann as striking the victim in the back of the head with the axe. It also quoted an unidentified family member from the United States as saying Hartmann has suffered from emotional problems since his early 20s.

"It's a sad story," Gremmen said. "But I'm glad he's admitted what he's done and that he's sorry for it."

The Canadian Press, 2007

But remember, "they support the troops" and "you shouldn't question their patriotism"

Then Apple Should Buy 3 Cars (1)

Nymz (905908) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563441)

Seriously, unless the meter prices are great enough that parking spaces go unused, then they aren't reducing any traffic. This begs the question (i'm sorry begs-the-question purists) but why would they want people to purchase Apple products from USA Apple online, instead of facilitating and promoting their own local economy?

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

travdaddy (527149) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563479)

The meters are there to reduce the number of parked cars, not for revenue. Apple is offering money, not a solution to overcrowded streets.

Yeah, I don't get it either. "Since you're trying to reduce the number of parked cars, how about we help you by offering free parking!" ?!?!?!

Re:I don't quite get it.. (0, Flamebait)

pnotequalsnp (1077279) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563549)

Typical French Canadians or should I say Quebecois. They tried to separate, I didn't try to stop them.

A better response to the Apple Store's request would have been "... but I am le tired".

Re:I don't quite get it.. (1)

nEoN nOoDlE (27594) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563667)

from the article:
"The idea of parking meters, besides revenue, is to keep people from parking on the street all day. The borough could do that simply by making the three-car stretch into a No Parking zone. The city is, after all, trying to reduce the number of parking spots downtown."

Sounds like the solution was in the article and the city isn't doing it just because they've never done it before. Sounds lame to me, since, again from the article, "The city would be spared maintenance and collection costs"

Typical corporation... (0, Redundant)

The_Fire_Horse (552422) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563015)

... it isnt about revenue (not ALL the time).

It is about managing the amount of available parking spaces.

I'd hate to see parking meters being sold to the highest bidder - nah, sorry Apple. You'll have to provide your own parking.

Re:Typical corporation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563175)

Sorry about hosing you with the slightly-faster, pretty much identical comment, you sure need the karma more than I do.

kdawson spam (5, Insightful)

Traxxas (20074) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563037)

And this is a story how? Why should a city remove meters because the business is Apple. If Apple doesn't want to deal with the meters they shouldn't have put the store there.

Re:kdawson spam (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563311)

And this is a story how? Why should a city remove meters because the business is Apple. If Apple doesn't want to deal with the meters they shouldn't have put the store there.

I think Apple visualises Minis, BMWs, Jaguars, Mercedes, etc. parked in front of their stylish new foothold. As soon as they see a lot of rusting hulks parked there they'll opt for the removal of the parking places.

i remember when a "slushie" was when you had a lot of snow down your boot

Quebecois (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563053)

Well hope this is a learning lesson for Apple, welcome to Canada where we've been dealing with the Quebecois and their self-righteous indignation for years. . .

GRR PARKING (0, Troll)

blhack (921171) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563057)

Cue the "ZOMFG apple can do no wrong!" crowd!

Think about it guys, how would you feel if microshaft decided that they wanted the front of their office to look pretty, so the took several of the oh-so-scarce downtown parking spots off the market.

Anybody who lives in tempe, arizona knows what I'm talking about. Mill avenue is a hot spot with a few "oh-so-choice" parking spots that are both CHEAP AS HELL, and right in front of the shops. Well lately the city has made a lot of these prized parking spots "Cab Only"...meaning that the cab drivers hang out in front of the bars all night long, and people who are actually trying to PARK in the parking spaces have to venture off into the wilderness that is ParkIT looking for some overpriced spot where you car will most likely have its stereo stolen.

MOral of the story is that Montrealians should not have to suffer a harder time trying to find a parking space because apple wanted their shop to look extra pretty.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

ninjapiratemonkey (968710) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563201)

The city is in the middle of a campaign to reduce downtown parking
read the whole article, or even the summary if you must, before you bitch about the fact that they're asking the city to do something. The city wants to do something, but they won't do it when they're asked to.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

blhack (921171) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563251)

I did read the entire article. If you would have read my post you would have noticed that I am mad about the city government where I live trying to do the same thing.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

moore.dustin (942289) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563247)

They made the right choice for Mill Ave in my opinion. Those spots were at a premium, but on the other end, traffic on Mill Ave is nonstop. The street is primarily known for its bars and it is the busiest at night when the bars are open. Changing the spaces to cab only not only helps reduce traffic on the street, but it encourages students to take a cab home instead of trying to drive home. A bouncer can throw someone in a cab instead of out on the street, which is fine by me. Also, cars parked on the street were damaged more than any car in a parking garage. People leaned all over and fell into cars drunk all the time. On the traffic end, now people do not cruise the street several times looking for space or worse yet, stopping in the middle of road as someone gets in, starts there car, and finally vacates the space.

As for your fear of something being stolen from your car in the garage or the Park It area, that is not my experience in the least. I have never heard of anyone every having anything done to there car while park around Mill Ave. There is a strong police presence on the weekend and security guards are in some of the garages so just find one that has one if you are worried about it. The cost to park has always been 0 for me. Park It charges, but they also validate, as does anywhere else. Your ASU decal usually takes care of any other issues anyways.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

blhack (921171) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563355)

WHoo-Hoo, another tempe arizona resident! I understand the cab-only to discourage drunk driving mentality, but when me and my roomate want to go to La Pita on a thursday night and get a hookah and some hummus (and to talk to the cute waitresses), I have to park all the way over in the lot next door to city hall.

Boo! BAD FORM TEMPE!
Btw, you can't validate parkit anymore.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

moore.dustin (942289) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563447)

Either way, getting rid of the small number of spaces to being with only helps other, more important issues more than it hurts the parking issue. Personally, I always park at Chili's unless I am going to the other end of Mill, either way it is not a looong walk.

I no longer live in Tempe, though I do visit very often. I resided there for about 4 years, but now I call Downtown Phoenix home.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

kanani (882288) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563399)

post to cancel moderator points

Re:GRR PARKING (0)

SmokeyTheBalrog (996551) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563359)

You mean cue the "Apple can ONLY do wrong, isn't important, and should be ignored" crowd. Which is much significantly louder and far more post happy then the people they enjoy complaining about.

People are even posting thinking that Apple employees would be allowed to use those spots. It's pretty sad.

This thread is practically a list of people who should be dumped into a /ignore list... damn and I just had to hit reply...

And before the anti-Apple zealots raise their war cry, I use windows XP.

Re:GRR PARKING (1)

SmokeyTheBalrog (996551) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563419)

I guess I really should have left out the whole ignore list comment. But I've been seeing so much whining around and I snapped a little.

To bad there is no Edit button.

Have a store employee continually feed meters (4, Interesting)

winkydink (650484) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563061)

problem solved

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (2, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563097)

I like your thinking boy, you're hired!

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (0, Offtopic)

hax0r_this (1073148) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563107)

Someone mod that insightful.

Cool Hand Luke & a pipe cutter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563133)

I remind you that the opening scene of Cool Hand Luke is Luke cutting down parking meters with a pipe cutter.
That is how he ends up in prison.

He becomes a rebel when the guards lock him in solitary so he won't try to escape in order to go to his mother's funeral.
This of course, pisses him off and he escapes just because they didn't want him to escape.

Illegal? (1)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563281)

I don't know about Montreal, but here in my city it's illegal to put more money in the meter after the initial feeding. I doubt that it's ever enforced here, but if Montreal had such a law and Apple pissed them off, you can bet that they'd enforce it.

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (2, Insightful)

Secrity (742221) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563287)

Feeding meters like that is illegal in many areas.

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563655)

one of the many unjust "laws" I ignore.

I follow the just laws and ignore the rest. I follow the law of my King.

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (1)

fbartho (840012) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563669)

why is that? Because they're acknowledging they'd rather get people with parking tickets?

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563411)

You're missing the point. Apple's objection is not that people have to pay for parking. Apple's objection is that the physical presence of parking metres screws up the design of their store.

Re:Have a store employee continually feed meters (1)

KJE (640748) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563565)

Montrealer (and Mac Jerk) here,

even though I don't quite understand the comment of feeding the meters, wouldn't people just park for free anyways?, THERE ARE NO METERS!

They installed these [8d.com] all over downtown a couple of years ago, to much complaining all around.

You go to a station and pay for your spot number, so if a new person comes to your spot after you paid for 2 hours and left after 5 minutes, they can't know how long has already been paid, so they pay again!

The city has already hiked the prices a couple of times, you now 5 minutes for a quarter... from a meter!

Anyways, the new flagship store [appleinsider.com] should be cool, although we have one just off the island, in a mall [apple.com] already.

Canadian Eh!? (1)

Line_Fault (247536) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563079)

I don't think there is any link between Canadian Bureaucrats and those from Quebec!
Quebec is it's own nation after all! Well, kind of...

Apple Is Like That Guy You See On The Street... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563081)

Apple is like that guy you see when you are out on a city street running errands who is wearing a stupid rainbow head wig dancing around playing a kazoo and is desperately trying to get the world to notice him and everyone but 2.5 percent of people just shake their heads and walks right on bye.

they should hire a "genius" to feed the meters (5, Funny)

netsavior (627338) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563095)

he could also stand there looking all sullen and geek chic.

Re:they should hire a "genius" to feed the meters (2, Interesting)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563261)

It's been done in Santa Cruz California. Where, it turns out, it is a crime to feed a meter unless it is your car parked there. Check out this story about the famous Mr Twister [benricelaw.com] .

parking in montreal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563119)

perhaps its more of a not wanting to set a precedent?
parking in Montreal is challenging to say the least!
if they do it for apple then why not for other retailers?
then how do we make the spaces rotate for other drivers?

The solution ... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563123)

The solution is to stop worrying about parking meters.

Instead, go out and get pissed at the bars on Rue Crescent and Rue Bishop, and then close out the evening leering at peelers in one (or several) of Montreal's legendary tittie bars.

C'mon Apple, think outside the box a little.

Re:The solution ... (1)

sjf (3790) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563577)

Erm, "peelers" ? Why would you go to a tittie bar to leer at policemen [historic-uk.com] ?

Remember, this is slashdot, so there's no such thing as a rhetorical question.

This is news? (3, Informative)

Mundocani (99058) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563135)

This is not news. This is not funny. This is not even mildly interesting. Check the Firehose again editors -- there must be a few tidbits in there that don't go against your personal beliefs and would make better stories to put up front than this lame pos.

Re:This is news? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563445)

Hey, ya know, this time of the year, there's never been any interesting things going on...

Bad quote... (3, Insightful)

WiglyWorm (1139035) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563147)

The quote "We've never done it before, so we can't." isn't attributed to anyone in the article, I highly doubt it was ever said. Sounds to me like the writer injecting some op-ed in to this supposed news piece. Should it really be cited on /.'s front page in a way that makes it sound like that was an actual reason given?

To Reimburse, or Not to Reimburse (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563167)

Reimbursement comes in many forms. Apple could just designate someone to feed these three meters on a regular schedule, so that their customers don't have to.

More Expensive than they Think. (4, Funny)

Erris (531066) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563171)

Now that it's published, they had better hope they never get their way. Bill Gates will pay someone to park some nasty clunker right in front and do various offensive and repulsive things. If you don't believe me, just look at the posts around here.

Slashdotters! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563415)

THIS... IS... TWITTER!! [slashdot.org]

What's Even Worse... (0, Redundant)

Chagatai (524580) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563193)

Even if Apple were to go out there and put change in the meters for when customers pull up, chances that even that would be violating some law, much like it does here for most meters in the States. "I'm sorry, sir, but you can't spend your own money as you see fit in assisting these people because you were not the one parked here."

Canada's Problem (-1, Flamebait)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563213)

'We've never done it before, so we can't.'

This sums up much of Canada's problem. And while I could give them the solution to it, they wouldn't understand it because they've never understood it before.

Canadian Bureaucrats Don't "Think" (1)

earthforce_1 (454968) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563259)


Deleted a superfluous word in title for you. I live here in Canada, (once lived in Montreal) and I am certainly not surprised.

Bureaucrats Don't "Think" (2, Funny)

JonMartin (123209) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563641)

Tightened it up a bit more for you.

Retarded Story (5, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563267)

That "news" story isn't quoting Montreal bureaucrats. It's putting words in their mouths to make a (stupid) point. All the writer knows is that the city refused - they don't actually know why, and there's no sign they actually asked anyone.

Parking meters, as the writer did note, are designed not to collect a little revenue, but to keep parking turning over quickly so more people can share fewer parking spots. "No Parking" signs don't replace them where they're needed (like in front of stores like Apple's) because parking is appropriate there, just not unlimited.

This is a stupid story by a stupid writer. Published by a stupid Slashdot editor.

let's play a game... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563269)

Every time I read a summary like this, I try to guess if kdawson posted it without checking. Turns out "yes he did" tends to work a little too well...

The parkings meters run linux! (1)

alph0ns3 (547254) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563277)

http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8415621500.html [linuxdevices.com]

My guess is that part of town didn't upgrade yet, thus they use the old too-ugly-for-apple parking meters :)

Re:The parkings meters run linux! (1)

netsavior (627338) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563361)

and apple's cash registers run Windows Pocket PC ;)

Re:The parkings meters run linux! (1)

treeves (963993) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563375)

So if the city replaced them with parking meters that ran on OSX, they'd be OK with it?

The real money comes from the fines (1)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563347)

According to the people in charge of the meters in my city, the money taken in by the meters just about covers the costs of collecting it and maintaining the meters. The real net revenue to the city comes from the fines for parking at an expired meter. So Apple's reimbursement would have to include the fines that would be collected, and maybe the bureaucrats don't want to admit that their meters are just a means of creating fineable offenses.

Hrm... (5, Funny)

JacobO (41895) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563393)

I'm not sure you should judge Canadians by the actions of the Québécois. They are distinct, after all, and should be laughed at as a separate group.

Re:Hrm... (1)

pablodiazgutierrez (756813) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563691)

More than 50% Quebecois have disagreed repeatedly when polled.

the solution is simple (0, Redundant)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563397)

just have a bucket of moose quarters to reimburse customers to enter the apple store.

Retard (1)

pablodiazgutierrez (756813) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563507)

The meters would actually benefit Apple, since they allow more throughput, encouraging people to park, shop, and leave the parking spot for someone else to park. The alternative is a local resident parked there for 3 days, generating no revenue for Apple (or any neighboring business). Parking meters make sense in commercial areas; not so much in residential ones.

Cue the anti government rants! (4, Interesting)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563533)

I can hear it now:

"When you join government, you get st00pid!"

"Bureaucrats can't see past their own red taped noses!"

It's not confined to just government, folks. Business has it's fair share of inefficiency and stupidity. My favorite example of this was when I had a long contract at a Fortune 500 company away from home. They paid for an apartment for me to live in, but I saw no reason why I should expense my meals, even though it was allowed. My reasoning was, "I'm going to eat whether I'm here or at home. Why should they pay for it." This saved the company a few thousand dollars over six months. At one point, though, I wanted to expense something odd: boarding my cat for the weekend while I traveled. My reasoning was, "I have no friends here who would take care of the cat, unlike at home, so the company should pay." The refused, saying it wasn't justifiable, even though it was only $50 or so. After that I expensed all of my meals. :)

To add insult to injury, the entire 3 year long project I was involved in was shelved and started over soon after that, wasting around $60 million. This wasn't the first (or last) time I saw a business waste millions of dollars. I think of these things any time a libertarian says, "Business can do things more efficiently!"

Re:Cue the anti government rants! (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563637)

To add insult to injury, the entire 3 year long project I was involved in was shelved and started over soon after that, wasting around $60 million. This wasn't the first (or last) time I saw a business waste millions of dollars. I think of these things any time a libertarian says, "Business can do things more efficiently!

Sure they can. The government is in the business of burning money and businesses do it much more efficiently. Look at enron or woldcom, it burned hundreds of twice as fast as most government agencies.

No Parking And "Smart Growth" are Flawed Concepts (4, Insightful)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563603)

It is ironic that they very objectives that municipalities set for programs of Smart Growth [wikipedia.org] very often result in precisely the opposite effects, increasing or exacerbating the undesirable elements that they seek to control. For example, in Portland Oregon they have filled in left turn pockets with planter boxes, installed "speed tables" and other "traffic calming" obstacle courses (if you were in a hurry would you be happy about having to slow down to navigate an obstacle course in your vehicle? Would that make you calmer once you exited the course or would you romp on the gas in anger and frustration to make up for lost time as you entered the freeway or the main traffic corridor?), removed parking spaces, provided too few parking spaces, and done many other misguided things in pursuit of the goal of "getting people out of their cars". After 15+ years what has been the result of these policies? Snarled traffic, increased traffic, traffic idling in slow speed stop and go driving, increased smog from more vehicles operating in the most inefficient speed and rpm range for the internal combustion engine. Basically every problem that they hopped to solve with their "Smart Growth" has in fact been made worse or even created new problems (i.e. dramatically increased smog) on top of the old ones. Portland is *worse* off because of Smart Growth and it would have been better off if they simply done nothing or at least abstained from some of the more no sense recommendations of the "Smart Growth" activists and consultants.

It all boils down to basic economics. People will do what they want and live how they want and you cannot tell them, "The elite smart growth planners are going to tell you what it is that you *really* want (i.e. less parking) and then enforce it upon you against your will." That type of centrally planned, command and control economic or social policy has not worked and will never work. It is the height of hubris and arrogance to presume that you can change other people's lives and preferences through mandates, laws, and enforcement actions. If people cannot work within the system then they find ways around it and the economic results of the workarounds are often *highly* suboptimal resulting in a Dead Weight Loss [wikipedia.org] to the economy.

iPark (1)

purplepolecat (1108483) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563619)

TFA, and most of the replies here, have missed the point of parking meters.

Cities have metered spaces so you can park there FOR AN HOUR OR TWO, but not all day. The city gets money from the meter and from tickets, daily commuters are encouraged to park outside the core, but those who really need to drive downtown can park long enough to patronise local businesses. It's a pretty good scheme.

TFA is suffering from a case of "I don't understand the problem, therefore people who do are mindless robots".

Speaking as a Montrealer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563661)

Hi:

I don't see what the big deal is. Why should Apple be any different from any other retail shop? In fact, the new Apple store will be right across the street from Ogilvey's, one of the city's snooty end department stores. If Ogilvey's can't get rid of the parking meters (or that irritating 'musician' who plays the spoons in front of their doors) why does Apple expect to do so?

AG
(Apple Computer user since the 1980s.)

If only... (2, Funny)

Cyanide300 (1148903) | more than 7 years ago | (#20563679)

"Non -- because 'We've never done it before, so we can't.'"

If only they had taken that attitude when they were first offered the chance to breathe.

Not even a real quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20563703)

The reporter was summarizing the mindset of the bureaucracy, not quoting anyone with the "We've never done that ..." Nobody ever actually said it. Now it's the freaking slashdot headline. Nice one, kdawson.
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