Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Microsoft and Novell Open Interoperability Lab

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the still-in-the-skeptic-camp dept.

Microsoft 113

An anonymous reader writes to mention that the Microsoft and Novell Interoperability Lab in Cambridge, Massachusetts opened today. The lab is supposed to allow both Novell and Microsoft developers to work together for better interoperability between SUSE and Windows Server. "Located in Cambridge, the 2,500-square-foot lab and workspace will be home to a combined team of the best and brightest Microsoft and Novell engineers focused on making Windows Server and SUSE Linux Enterprise work better together. The first priority for the lab team will be to ensure interoperability between Microsoft and Novell virtualization technologies. Additional work will include standards-based systems management, identity federation and compatibility of office document formats."

cancel ×

113 comments

GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista (-1, Offtopic)

sexynegro (1155837) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575273)

GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista
GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista

fellacious (GNAP) Intercourse, PA - Windows Vista appears to finally be taking off, at least within one Fortune 100 company. The GNAA had for the past 13 years been using Red Hat Linux and it's successor, Fedora Core, but growing discontent with the free software operating system forced CTO Jmax to declare on Wednesday that the company was to be switching its entire infrastructure to the new version of Windows, effective immediately. "I'm not going to theatrically claim that I wasn't expecting to have to do this," Jmax said. "This has been coming for quite some time." The GNAA's troubles with Red Hat's Linux system included chronic governance problems, a persistent failure to maintain key repositories, a complex and undocumented submission process which has kept the GNAA's free trolling utilities off the Red Hat-based desktops of thousands of would-be trolls, inability to keep RPM up to date, and a failure to address the problem of Firefox not crashing a entire computer when the user loads Last Measure. "The deal-breaker, though, was when a key Last Measure server remained down for four hours while our entire Intercourse development team tried desperately to bring it up despite not having statically-linked package manager binaries." What had happened was Dikky, visiting from Norway, wanted to play the child pornography mod of Doom 3 on that server- which had to drag several libraries with it. "In addition," said Jmax, "several key software applications used in the GNAA's corporate workflow are proprietary software- which means that they had to be run in an Ubuntu compatibility environment anyway." However, being as those unnamed applications were written in C#.NET, "We expect that our transition to Windows Vista will come off without a hitch."

About Jmax:

The CTO of the GNAA, Jmax also has a seat on Microsoft's board of directors. His resume can be accessed at http://goatse.fr/ [goatse.fr] .

About Windows Vista:

The fastest-growing desktop operating system on the market, Windows Vista combines the legendary security of Windows 98 with the legendary ease of use of those computer interfaces you see in the movies into one ultra-fast, ultra-stable computing platform.

About Red Hat:

A failure of a computer company, Red Hat burns through investor money while giving its products away for free. It is currently under investigation from the SEC for misuse of invested funds, and being sued by the GNAA for breach of contract for sucking more than specified in the GNAA's contract with Red Hat.

About the Linux community:

Trolled.



About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_al_punjabi@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2007 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

Re:GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20575303)

Interesting. Do tell more.

Re:GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista (0, Offtopic)

sexynegro (1155837) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575349)

GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista
GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista

fellacious (GNAP) Intercourse, PA - Windows Vista appears to finally be taking off, at least within one Fortune 100 company. The GNAA had for the past 13 years been using Red Hat Linux and it's successor, Fedora Core, but growing discontent with the free software operating system forced CTO Jmax to declare on Wednesday that the company was to be switching its entire infrastructure to the new version of Windows, effective immediately. "I'm not going to theatrically claim that I wasn't expecting to have to do this," Jmax said. "This has been coming for quite some time." The GNAA's troubles with Red Hat's Linux system included chronic governance problems, a persistent failure to maintain key repositories, a complex and undocumented submission process which has kept the GNAA's free trolling utilities off the Red Hat-based desktops of thousands of would-be trolls, inability to keep RPM up to date, and a failure to address the problem of Firefox not crashing a entire computer when the user loads Last Measure. "The deal-breaker, though, was when a key Last Measure server remained down for four hours while our entire Intercourse development team tried desperately to bring it up despite not having statically-linked package manager binaries." What had happened was Dikky, visiting from Norway, wanted to play the child pornography mod of Doom 3 on that server- which had to drag several libraries with it. "In addition," said Jmax, "several key software applications used in the GNAA's corporate workflow are proprietary software- which means that they had to be run in an Ubuntu compatibility environment anyway." However, being as those unnamed applications were written in C#.NET, "We expect that our transition to Windows Vista will come off without a hitch."

About Jmax:

The CTO of the GNAA, Jmax also has a seat on Microsoft's board of directors. His resume can be accessed at http://goatse.fr/ [goatse.fr] .

About Windows Vista:

The fastest-growing desktop operating system on the market, Windows Vista combines the legendary security of Windows 98 with the legendary ease of use of those computer interfaces you see in the movies into one ultra-fast, ultra-stable computing platform.

About Red Hat:

A failure of a computer company, Red Hat burns through investor money while giving its products away for free. It is currently under investigation from the SEC for misuse of invested funds, and being sued by the GNAA for breach of contract for sucking more than specified in the GNAA's contract with Red Hat.

About the Linux community:

Trolled.



About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_al_punjabi@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2007 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

itsatrap? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20575343)

I predict that this will get tagged as "itsatrap"--Microsoft has a history of joining efforts only to undermine them later. (E.g. "embrace, extend, extinguish")

Having said that, Microsoft, like many gigantic corporations, has several "personalities" in the sense that different divisions may be operating on different guiding principles that don't necessarily mesh with each other. In this case, for instance, I'm willing to believe that the MS engineers joining this interoperability effort will genuinely do good work towards making MS products work with Linux in a smart and efficient way. So, I can see a lot of good coming out of this.

Yes, we should be wary of any attempt by MS higher-ups to subvert this process and use it to break interoperability (or to make Linux look "unfit for business" or whatever)... but to some extent I'm willing to give MS another chance here.

Re:itsatrap? (1)

Plaid Phantom (818438) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575557)

Agreed. Microsoft is a many-headed beast, and not all of them are evil. Hopefully this is a start of Microsoft's turning from the dark side. (But then, with Darth Ballmer at the helm, Microsoft can only be so good.)

Re:itsatrap? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575845)

Is that what "identity federation" is? Or is that a clever name for Team Fortress matches between Microsoft and Novell? Hehe.

Re:itsatrap? (5, Funny)

Experiment 626 (698257) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575741)

Of course it's a trap. Imagine you were walking along and you saw a bear trap on the ground, with a trip wire beside it leading to a gas canister. A cage is suspended over it by a rope, and there's a sentry gun mounted nearby. You might think, "this is a trap", unless you were a Novell executive, in which case you would step into the the apparatus try to find ways to "interoperate" with it.

Re:itsatrap? (4, Insightful)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575873)

You failed to mention the money dangled over the trap.

This lab is the result of the Microsoft-Novell FUD agreement.

And at 2500 square feet, I.E., a 50x50 foot room,
the techs don't have a lot of room to interoperate.

It's a farce to appease the EU.

Re:itsatrap? (1)

perturbed1 (1086477) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577717)

Yeah, but it's in Cambridge where software engineers are used to be tucked into tiny cubicles!

But then again, it being Cambridge, the land of the FSF, MS is walking into pretty hostile territory. How many MIT hacks will be pulled on that office is beyond my guess...

Re:itsatrap? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20577793)

"You failed to mention the money dangled over the trap."

No, the money is spread on and around the snare trap to camouflage it like you would otherwise do with foliage. It will fool and catch a CEO every time, guaranteed or your money back, because CEO's don't see world in full color. They only can see shades of $green-back$.

Re:itsatrap? (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578239)

The article was sparse on details, here's a better one: [computerworld.com]

The 2,500-square-foot lab was completed in July and includes about 80 servers that are running Intel Corp. dual- and quad-core chips, as well as dual-core chips from Advanced Micro Devices Inc.

So far, the lab has four engineers on staff, with another four to be hired by the end of the year, Hanrahan said. Other engineers from Microsoft and Novell facilities around the world will also work in the lab, he said.


Re:itsatrap? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20578555)

And at 2500 square feet, I.E., a 50x50 foot room,
the techs don't have a lot of room to interoperate.
Might not be so bad. Maybe the room is 10x250. Perfect for some impromptu geek sports events. ;-)

Re:itsatrap? (1)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 6 years ago | (#20579701)

And for some strange reason, the techs wearing the lab coats look like those drawings from Gary Larson's The Far Side. Wait...they're cardboard cutouts! It's a trap!

No research needed (2, Interesting)

Mateo_LeFou (859634) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575947)

I love the monthly new-years-resolutions to work harder at/invest more in interoperability.
It's actually not that difficult. Have most of your apps spit out strings of text in some documentable (or, ideally, document*ed) format and basically voila!
What's difficult is having interoperability without actually having it. In fact, I suspect they could research that until doomsday.

Re:itsatrap? (2, Interesting)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575961)

I remember the "Novell Migration Tool" from circa 1996 - it allowed you to 'legally' voilate Novell license agreement (more than the licensed number of users could connect to a Novell server).

Re:itsatrap? (2, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575991)

I'm willing to believe that the MS engineers joining this interoperability effort will genuinely do good work towards making MS products work with Linux in a smart and efficient way. So, I can see a lot of good coming out of this.
Um, no. They will do work towards making Linux work with MS products. Whether this work will be good or not remains to be seen, but their track record does not speak well for them. No doubt much of this work will be closed-source proprietary software designed to run on Linux. And I have no doubts that one of their first jobs will be porting WGA to Linux.

Glad it's not on my Resume (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20575993)

Having this on one's Resume is going to be a red flag. I for one will be shooting down anyone with this on their Resume. It's right up there with having semi-recent SCO experience on your Resume IMO.

Good luck to the "top" engineers who end up working there. You are a pariah, possibly to both camps.

W00t! The Microsoft shills are moderating! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20578211)

Try to hide this as you like, but the fact remains that the people working in this lab are going to still be labeled as pariahs.

Re:itsatrap? (2, Interesting)

value_added (719364) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576329)

In this case, for instance, I'm willing to believe that the MS engineers joining this interoperability effort will genuinely do good work towards making MS products work with Linux in a smart and efficient way.

Not to be flippant, but wouldn't a "smart and efficient way" include a decision on the part of Microsoft to stop "not interoperating"? Seems to me that over the years they've actively and repeatedly pursued a course that was designed to maintain monopoly and thwart interoperability of any sort.

Then again, maybe this development is like the situation in the Middle East. Having members of the opposite sides in the same room talking with one another while everyone outside is fighting can be viewed as a positive step, even if shouts of "traitor" are heard through the windows.

Re:itsatrap? (3, Interesting)

michrech (468134) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576967)

What's worse, MS really never had to do any of the work. All they had to do was document their protocols (and provide them in a GPL friendly way) so that the Samba folks (for example) could create *all* the software to make everything work. On top of that, MS could have reaped TONS of free positive publicity.

Though I am stuck using MS at work, and at home (for a couple games I like to play that aren't available/playable on any other platform), and don't really mind using the products (because, in this case, they are the right tool for the job), I very much dislike the company (in the way it does business... I'm sure at least some of the people that work there are great people otherwise...)

Not to be flippant, but wouldn't a "smart and efficient way" include a decision on the part of Microsoft to stop "not interoperating"? Seems to me that over the years they've actively and repeatedly pursued a course that was designed to maintain monopoly and thwart interoperability of any sort.

Re:itsatrap? (3, Insightful)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577239)

Yes, we should be wary of any attempt by MS higher-ups to subvert this process and use it to break interoperability (or to make Linux look "unfit for business" or whatever)... but to some extent I'm willing to give MS another chance here.
I am also hopeful. But I am also highly skeptical. Such an outcome is very possible but would go against a long standing history. At this point, it would take some extraordinary steps on Microsoft's part to demonstrate that there is no trap. I believe it is entirely possible for them to do it. After all, IBM of all entities has made such leaps. A key to their credibility is the license and projects they work with.

Microsoft has learned a lot about business from IBM in the past. Let's see if they can follow those footsteps going forward. I hope they do.

Re:itsatrap? (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 6 years ago | (#20579619)

Face it, the lessons Microsoft learned from IBM were from the IBM of the sixties and seventies. You know, the IBM that would crush anyone and anything that threatened to "interoperate" with IBM equipment. There's a guy named Amdahl that could probably enlighten you about that.

Re:itsatrap? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20578253)

The ISO should be the only interoperability lab needed, at least if everyone plays it fair. This is just Microsoft and Novell admintting they'd rather fragmentate the market further by sharing trade secret behinds closed doors rather than advocating open standards.

Awesome! (4, Funny)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575383)

Now you can autospace like in Word5 or do pagebreak Wordstar style! OOXML coming to Linux!!

In all seriousness though (1)

C3ntaur (642283) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578121)

I've started getting OOXML documents from my colleagues, and I'm loathe to shell out for Office 2007 or fiddle with the converter plugin for earlier versions of MS Office (which I still occassionally have to run in a VMware Windows instance due to crazy formatting or macros). I switched to Linux right around the time of the Windows ME debacle, and I have no intention of switching back. I have used OpenOffice successfully since then, and for the most part it's been fine. Now I'm faced with having to bring up VMware every time someone sends me an OOXML document. Is there any hope for us OOo users? Last I heard, an OOXML converter is months away -- and it's entirely likely the first few releases will be barely usable.

Ho Hum. (1, Funny)

abug (1082487) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575435)

Tale as old as time True as it can be Barely even friends Then somebody bends Unexpectedly Just a little change Small to say the least Both a little scared Neither one prepared Beauty and the Beast...

Locked out ! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20575449)

Novell showed up in timely fashion but the Microsoft Engineers were mysteriously left locked out outside the building after failing to realize that the staff fridge door needed to be opened and the microwave oven set to 3:50 cook time before there card lock would work...

Re:Locked out ! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20578471)

Interoperability Lab -- Security Warning

The publisher could not be verified. Are you sure you want to try to interoperate with this company?

Name: Microsoft
Publisher: Unknown Publisher
Type: convicted monopolist
From: Redmond, WA

(( Run )) ( Cancel )

[x] Always ask before selling out to this company

Ulterior motives? (2, Informative)

Enlarged to Show Tex (911413) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575519)

I suspect that this is little more than a veiled attempt to scream "We're working on interoperability - now government, leave us the hell alone!"

Hmmm... (0, Flamebait)

hitmanWilly1337 (1034664) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575521)

So we can get crap MS proprietary code and corrupted standards in Linux now too, huh. You know, I really have no problem with folks wanting to use Windows, I just choose not to. But apparently, the folks in Redmond seem to have a problem with me making my own decisions on what OS I use. Does anyone else see a problem, here?

Re:Hmmm... (2, Funny)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575579)

/* So we can get crap MS proprietary code and corrupted standards in Linux now too, huh. */

I thought that was what Wine was for?

Re:Hmmm... (2, Interesting)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576815)


WINE actually provide a useful service that helps third party applications that were originally only developed for Windows to migrate to Linux. The project that does what you warn about is Mono, which encourages Linux developers to adopt proprietary Sue You Later frameworks without thinking about it. And Mono, co-incidentally enough, is the one with the close, close ties to Novell. I wouldn't touch SuSE with a 50m CAT5e cable, right now.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575597)

We see a lot of problems here but not what you're describing. Interoperability doesn't mean putting proprietary code in Linux, but maybe variations on standards. Hasn't the Samba project been tweaking standards for years to interoperate with Windows for years, and it's still open source which is a real-world example that disproves your automatic assumption. The part about the folks in Redmond having a problem with your decisions about what OS you use .... doesn't make sense. You should clarify.

Re:Hmmm... (2, Insightful)

hitmanWilly1337 (1034664) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576087)

Ok, samba is a bad example since it's whole purpose for existence is TO network with windows machines, as most other operating systems support unix style networking. And as far as my os of choice, you really mean to tell me that ms doesn't try to force people on to windows? If that's the case, what cave have you been living in for the past decade? Maybe if ms really wants to promote interoperability, they should start adopting some open standards in windows instead of trying to force the community to hack around their ridiculously insecure, and just plain lousy, setup.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578067)

you really mean to tell me that ms doesn't try to force people on to windows?

Nobody said Microsoft doesn't try to force Windows so there's no need to go looking in caves :). Yes companies do tend to force their products because that's kind of how they make money. You probably won't see a company promoting somebody else's product in spite of its own. Look at any company and its product. A company will tend to sell its product whether your personally like it or not. You're basically describing business as usual and trying to spin something or start an argument ... still very confusing, your point.

Re:Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20576437)

If it is a variation, its not a standard. SAMBA has been working on interoperability with windows for years, yes, but only because of unpublished, non-standard, hidden-feature, undocumented bloatware from M$. It is like trying to read an ebook written in 15 different languages, none of which you speak or understand, and which changes chapters daily (at each "upgrade"). As for the OS comment, if you are not a troll, you are a shill. M$ wants to kill Linux, Unix, OSX, or any other OS that does not give them a lock-in to your wallet. And you know it, fanboy.

Peer or puppet? (4, Interesting)

alext (29323) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575567)

An obvious benchmark to track is the number of changes going into the Windows Server product for compatibility vs. those going into Suse Linux.

If Suse has to make all the running it will be pretty obvious who is wearing the trousers (as we say).

Re:Peer or puppet? (1)

woozlewuzzle (532172) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576111)

Yes, the one wearing the trousers is the one with 90+% marketshare on the desktop. Who else did you expect?

Re:Peer or puppet? (1)

that IT girl (864406) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576579)

...and thus was coined the phrase "Geeks--we like it better without pants."

Re:Peer or puppet? (5, Insightful)

projectmalamute (1146867) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577297)

I would assume the changes will mostly be on the Suse side. All of the information MS needed to interoperate with Linux has been openly available for years, if MS wanted to play nicely with Linux they already would.

Re:Peer or puppet? (1)

Alain Williams (2972) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578997)

Does it really matter where the changes are made -- as long as interoperation is improved and it doesn't mean Linux breaking any RFCs/... ?

Do they need a lab for interoperating? (0, Flamebait)

jkrise (535370) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575621)

Novell professes to deal only Open Source - so why is there a necessity for this interop stuff... except for some PR stunt?

The only reason I can think of is if MS wants to share some details only with Novell and not the entire Open Source community.

Which implies no one will touch open source offerings from Novell that implemented flawed MS tchnologies - like Mono, Moonlight, Silverlight, Novell OOO, etc.

Interop. problems come from closed source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20578375)

This whole concept of trying to find ways to interop. is a red herring.

Open source code is open for all to see

Not too much to worry about (2, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575637)

Microsoft has been trying to create a secure OS for over a decade. They have also been trying to dominate the desktop market at every opportunity. They have not done either very well. It arguable that they dominate, but that was not done in a lab, it was done in a marketing team meeting room.

Re:Not too much to worry about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20575861)

They have also been trying to dominate the desktop market at every opportunity. They have not done either very well.

Psh. Tell me about it. When was the last time anyone saw a Microsoft product on a desktop?

...?

...?!

Re:Not too much to worry about (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577183)

In that vein, I'd figure they would've had an easier time (license-wise) to take a BSD kernel, obfuscate the hell out of it, and lash a Windows UI and all the 'doze-specific APIs on top of it.

I mean, there is historical precedent (Windows' TCP/IP stack), less effort required to "play nice" w/ FOSS-friendly corps, and they'd (for once) have something more secure than what they've been issuing forth in the OS market.

/P

Mhmm! (2, Funny)

dontspitconfetti (1153473) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575647)

Additional work will include standards-based systems management, identity federation and compatibility of office document formats.
Compatibility: Microsoft's #1 goal!

Re:Mhmm! (2, Insightful)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575859)

Actually yes. You forget another mantra "I love standards, so many to chose from".

I suspect that they have learned the lesson from SOAP that having an interoperable standard does not necessarily decrease business. It increases it if the standard complexity is above a certain threshold.

So some of them have seen the light of more revenue on the horizon already. It is a matter of the rest of the company following suit.

Re:Mhmm! (1)

lpontiac (173839) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578063)

SOAP? Interoperable? Bwahahahahahhahahahahaa.

Re:Mhmm! (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578585)

For Microsoft - definitely interoperable. Just compare it to their other stuff.

Isn't it interesting... (4, Funny)

xednieht (1117791) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575659)

how tomorrow's lawsuits start?

Insightful (1)

Udo Schmitz (738216) | more than 6 years ago | (#20580635)

Above comment should be modded insightful instead of funny ...

Finally, standards compatibility! (2, Funny)

mhall119 (1035984) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575775)

It's about time for Microsoft to properly implement IMAP, LDAP and CalDAV in Exchance. I can't wait.

We're at phase two already? (3, Interesting)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575819)

Phase one - embrace. [linux-watch.com]

Phase two - extend. [slashdot.org]

Phase three - extinguish. [wikipedia.org]

Been good knowing you, Novell.

Re:We're at phase two already? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20576303)

Except that Novell are being shunned everywhere they (or MS on their behalf) can't get a salesman to convince a clueless IT buyer. Gotta admire the doublespeak tho, hopefully they'll have less success here than when they "introped" with Java.

Write it down. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20575829)

Microsoft will abandon their OS in it's current form after two more releases. Vista 20?? and Vista 202?

Then it will be MS-UNIX under the hood.

Otherwise the rest of the world is going to be on the metric system while we're still on the imperial system of Lord Gates.

Apple did it. MS will too eventually and I'll have my flying car!

Re:Write it down. (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576075)

UNIX is a commodity OS and MS would make more money selling mice than they would selling a MS-UNIX.

Of course if Windows went away and it was all UNIX, perhaps a new generation of developers would get sick of it and create a new and better OS.

Re:Write it down. (2, Insightful)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577035)

Unix underpinnings + Windows GUI + .Net, etc would not be a commodity, and they would be following the Apple route. They could build on top of OpenBSD, and return to cross-processor compatibility fairly easily. However, there's no need to. They have the VMS underpinnings from NT, and what they need to do is return to the earlier implementation, force backwards compatibility with 95/98, etc, into Virtual machines, and otherwise undo insecure solutions designed to work around programs that expect the end user to be the superuser. Release it as Vista-enhanced, and there you go. If they fixed MS-Kerberos, adhered to a standard or two in the process, and adopted techniques such as NSF4 or proper queueing in the process, so much the better.

Maybe they can straighten out Novell on Wordperfect + Non-Power-User installations. There really is not a lot wrong with modern Windows, other than too many marketers making technical decisions, visual clutter in the GUI, and problems brought on by maintaining compatibility with the single-user consumer Windows such as 98. Sandbox those, and a lot of issues would go away, while maintaining compatibility (or perhaps improving it) for people who still have programs for 98 or Dos 6.22.

That being said, I'm still not going back to the OS of the Beast, but I would tone down the anti-Redmond rhetoric.

Re:Write it down. (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578579)

Apple is famous for not caring about backwards compatibility and they have a devoted following that will go along with almost anything. Also the Mac ecosystem (hardware and software) is much less diverse and complex; thus reimplementing the "Mac experience" based on BSD wasn't that hard.

MS customers are not so forgiving. Reimplementing Windows with a Unix core would be an enormous undertaking that is unlikely to be a cash-positive move for MS. Besides, most of the complexity of Windows wouldn't go away by changing to a different kernel or making everything "look like a file" or any other Unix attribute.

Re:Write it down. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20577099)

There is very little margin in selling hardware unless you are Apple or Sun. We'll it used to be Sun pre-Linux.

True they may get sick of it however, Apple tried and figured out it is just cheaper to go UNIX and use Intel chips. The user doesn't care what's under the hood.

The money is always in the software, I believe Windows will be UNIX in 15-20 years. Apple will be cross platform because their shareholders will eventually demand it. Not that Apple computers are bad, they are just expensive. They can either sell a million computers a year or sell 500 million copies of Leopard and support it. Where is the money in that one?

Anyway, I believe Microsoft's one an only leverage point now is Active Directory and maybe Exchange, they are the authentication store in the the enterprise. No one cares anymore about the latest OS from Redmond. XP works and works well. It's not that I don't like Vista, I just could care less.

   

Re:Write it down. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20580977)

It's more likely they'd put Singularity under the hood.

Visions of the past (1)

aaronl (43811) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575881)

Woah, looking like that time that IBM and Microsoft put together a team of the best and brightest to develop the next generation of operating systems: OS/2. They got all the way to when MS released Windows 3.0, with an API that didn't match with OS/2, and then IBM was maintaining the OS/2 2.x system while Microsoft was developing NT OS/2 3.0. Then Microsoft took all of that collaborative work, and made off with it, calling it simply Windows NT.

Who is running this? (4, Funny)

Epeeist (2682) | more than 6 years ago | (#20575899)

Looks like the ideal job for Miguel ;-)

Optimist here (1)

saleenS281 (859657) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576063)

Here's hoping they will come up with an extremely simplified AD plug-in of some sort. Yes, I know linux geeks, you can currently integrate with active directory, but it's nowhere near as simple as it should be. You can sit there and complain that it's MS's fault, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, and the powers that be don't really care. So, here's hoping for something good coming out of this.

Re:Optimist here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20579563)

Or just run better directory services like eDirectory.

Not exactly a lofty space... (1)

BUL2294 (1081735) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576155)

How many people & how much equipment are stuck in a 50' x 50' room? By comparison, the standard North American semi trailer (trailer only, not the cab) is 53 ft. 2500 ft^2 sounds large at first until you really think about it...

Hopefully, it's not an abbatoir. (1)

writermike (57327) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576165)

Cause if it is, they're in for a world of hurt. [mzonline.com]

Standards? (1)

peterprior (319967) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576181)

...or they could just both make sure that their products implement and adhere to standards correctly.

Though given the recent OOXML ISO happenings, maybe more companies will need these labs to make their products work together...

Obligatory... (2, Informative)

that IT girl (864406) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576335)

"...combined team of the best and brightest Microsoft and Novell engineers..."

Best? Brightest? Microsoft??

Re:Obligatory... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20576789)

You sound like a bitter person that Microsoft rejected for a job.
Just like the 90% of Cal-Berkely students that are Stanford rejects.

Re:Obligatory... (1)

that IT girl (864406) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577107)

LOL...nope, haven't even considered working for them. Can't take a joke, stay off the Slashdot.

2500 sq ft? (0, Redundant)

deander2 (26173) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576541)

2500 sq ft? that's not much of a lab...smaller than my house.
as far as office space goes, this is pathetic. think one 50'x50' room.

Re:2500 sq ft? (1)

lordtoran (1063300) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577077)

Like everybody outside of the US I can't think in feet, so here is a conversion to standard units: 232 m or a ~15m x 15m room. Calling a small backyard office like that an "interoperability lab" is an euphemism.

Evolution Exchange Connector PLEEEEAAAAASSSSS!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20576567)

Ever since this stupid interoperability agreement the Evolution Exchange connector has been broken. It does not work with Exchange 2007 which my stupid company upgraded to a year ago and I haven't been able to access Exchange with Evolution since. Why does it seem that since the interoperability agreement interoperability has gotten worse. Can you please spend some of this money to get a working Linux exchange client? It should be easier than ever now that you are in bed with Microsoft.

Thanks!

wow, compatability with ONE linux (1)

wardk (3037) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576569)

you know it won't support other distros. there will be "technical roadblocks".

meet the new novell, same as the old novell. deaf, dumb and blind.

and owned by microsoft

Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20576685)

is going down the drain like a turd.

Re:Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20577417)

On behalf of turds everywhere, I'd like to ask that you show a little more consideration. What has a turd ever done to you that they deserve to be compared to Microsoft?

So the idea is..... (1)

TW Atwater (1145245) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576831)

...to make Linux desktops work with Windows servers.

Fookin' brilliant!

Re:So the idea is..... (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578941)

``...to make Linux desktops work with Windows servers.''

Worst of both worlds!

proprietary extenstions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20576915)

I assume any interoperability will be patented, closed source, and available on a pay-to-use only basis. So this is useless unless you're the kind of sucker CTO or equiv. who irresponsibly marries your company to this disreputable vendor with a proven track record of purposely making it difficult to see your own data without paying Microsoft taxes forever.

Priorities (4, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20576935)

``The first priority for the lab team will be to ensure interoperability between Microsoft and Novell virtualization technologies.''

That is definitely not the place I would start. First of all, I hardly think interoperability in virtualization is the most important, and secondly, as far as I know, we already _have_ interoperable virtualization.

Instead of virtualization, I would start with file formats and move to protocols from there.

Of course, neither of these would be issues if there were standards and both parties adhered to them.

Re:Priorities (1)

kripkenstein (913150) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578201)

as far as I know, we already _have_ interoperable virtualization
Of course we do (several varieties of it, even), but Microsoft doesn't. They see that virtualizing Linux is going to be big business; their goal is make SUSE on Windows using Microsoft's virtualization solution the 'premiere' way to do that.

My theory at least. Anyhow, I don't expect anything good to come out of this 'interoperable virtualization' issue except for Microsoft (and possibly Novell).

Re:Priorities (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578611)

I was thinking along those lines, too. Probably, Microsoft's and Novell's mutual interest in this is that whatever software will be dominant in a few years, you can always easily run _their_ software alongside it. Virtualization fits that picture; just look at what Parallels is doing on Macintel: you can run Windows and its apps alongside OS X and its apps, all on the same desktop. It would be good for Microsoft and Novell if people ended up running SuSE, Windows and MS Office that way, after all, that would mean people needing licenses for all three.

the best and brightest Microsft engineers (0, Flamebait)

janozaurus (958576) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577087)

work at the Interoperability Lab in Cambridge. The bad ones still work in Redmond on other goals.

NTFS (1)

protomala (551662) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577141)

Linux can't even change (very well, yes I know there is ntfs3g) files with windows NT FileSystem. Those guys should care about those kind of things instead of virtualization IMHO :-P

Accountability (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577149)

I just hope all the Novel people behind all these moves are willing to be held responsible in some non-abstract form if all this dealings with Microsoft goes south. I can't think of any way that these deals would not benefit Microsoft, however I can think of how things can go wrong enough that it affects me way over here in Fedora. So I just hope that Mr. Miguel de Icaza and company will hold themselves accountable.

should have shared space with Sun (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577373)

that way, the Novell engineers can play backgammon all day with the Sun engineers since they've been busy doing little for so long already. I'd mention the Microsoft engineers but Microsoft probably doesn't send any and just hires people off the street corners, tags-em with Microsoft badges and then tells them to talk about the weather when asked a question, any question. They wouldn't know how to play backgammon or even learn it. The Sun people are most likely starving for new players.

But really, are these people really thinking anything enabling Linux to compete with Windows is going to come of this? WTF are they smoking and how long have they had their heads in the sand and/or clouds? When was the last time that has happened.

I guess there is SOMETHING different in the 'kill Linux' plans at Microsoft now. That's the embedding of Microsoft IP into OSS. So, as unusual as it is and yes, snowballs show up on Lucifer doorstep, there might actually be some little tidbits that comes out of this. Those will still likely be poison but something just might pop out of this shit hole called the Microsoft and Novell Interoperability Lab. But I wouldn't touch it. IMO.

LoB

Dead or Alive (2, Insightful)

decriptor (762523) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577603)

The advantage to a lot of this is that its open source. If Novell was to be killed off as a result, we still have the code to go through choosing the pieces we want.

So if some is tainted, then through it away. People act like they don't care, but seem to. I guess in a way, who cares if Novell dies, we have their code, right? But at the same time, who is going to pick up all of the coding that will stop if they disappear?

Although, I am one of those that hopes, ad mist the flaws/bad choices, that they continue to produce some good things. XEN for example.

GPL Foils Traps (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577743)

Any changes Novell makes to the Linux kernel or supporting OS code (and apps), all distributed under GPL, will be available for any other developer to use under GPL, as per the GPL.

Novell's Linux products might eventually become traps for Microsoft lockin, but the code itself need not be if included in other distros. That would be up to the other distro.

Why does any company think they won't get burned (1)

subl33t (739983) | more than 6 years ago | (#20577771)

... after hearing of Microsoft's former partnership nightmares?

Is Novell a Judas or just another plain old sucker?

Re:Why does any company think they won't get burne (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#20579289)

Darth Gates: Novell must not become the major Linux distributor.

Darth Ballmer: If it could be turned to the Dark Side of the Patent...

Darth Gates: Yes, Novell would make a powerful ally. Can it be done?

Darth Ballmer: Novell will turn, or it will be destroyed.

Re:Why does any company think they won't get burne (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 6 years ago | (#20579487)

Is Novell a Judas or just another plain old sucker?

Probably just in financial dire straights and taking the short-term cash injection from Microsoft to put off its inevitable demise.

Novell knows what they are doing (1)

sysadmintech (704387) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578647)

Remember MS stole AD from Novell and destroyed WordPerfect with nasty marketing lies. Novell knows MS can not be trusted in any way.
SUSE has only made Novell stronger. MS can never open up their huge bundled DOS or pay their taxes. If MS sent 4 engineers, then they're going to have to hire because that over half of their staff. Remember Ballmer told the EU that MS only has 500 employees and almost all of them are salesmen or attorneys.
Novell knows exactly what is going on and like most collaborations with MS today, they will take what they can get and give nothing. Can you really fit 16 engineers in cubicals and the racks in a quarter of a 7-11? Sounds like Intel Research Centers, only larger with more engineers. Someone has to answer the phone. With that number of servers, we're talking a ton of blade centers.
If it's a trap, knowing MS, it's a fire death trap to kill of a couple Novell engineers without have to pay for anti-freeze.

brave company (2)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 6 years ago | (#20578983)

Many are criticising Novell. On the other hand they are brave enough to walk a important tight rope and take the flack.

Re:brave company (1)

mooreti1 (1123363) | more than 6 years ago | (#20579537)

Damn right, icepick. Good point.

Re:brave company (1)

Hucko (998827) | more than 6 years ago | (#20580601)

Brave and stupid are often hard to separate...

Re:brave company (1)

chromatic (9471) | more than 6 years ago | (#20581507)

It does take a lot of bravery to assume that Novell will be the first software company to emerge successfully from a partnership with Microsoft.

notice something? (2, Interesting)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 6 years ago | (#20579719)

making Windows Server and SUSE Linux Enterprise work better together. The first priority for the lab team will be to ensure interoperability between Microsoft and Novell virtualization technologies.
notice, that the aim is interoperability with NOVELL, not GNU+Linux
This must mean that they're mixing SUSE with MS Patents again, which means more vendor lock-in for Novell customers...

I don't think there is any reasonable explanation, why MS is creating vendor lock-ins for Novell customers, except that they plan to buy Novell some day... (remember: Steve Ballmer saied they had found THE strategy against linux, "the enemy" - and only 7 month later, after "several months of negotiations" they made the deal with Novell.... there HAS to be something wrong about that....)

yeah yeah, what ever (1)

Bender Unit 22 (216955) | more than 6 years ago | (#20580725)

The last time Microsoft worked got get interoperability with Novell products was in reality just so that people could easier upgrade from netware to windows nt. :D

Catch 22 (1)

clintre (1078849) | more than 6 years ago | (#20581701)

The sad fact is for Linux to really get into more data centers and eventually corporate desktops they are going to have more interoperability with Microsoft. Microsoft is dominate in more data centers than it is not and most companies I have worked with will only allow Linux to be used in "large system applications" like Oracle and such.

The main concern is with security ( I know it sounds laughable). Not with Windows or Linux but with the current solutions for interoperability like Samba, AD technology, etc. A lot of companies will not allow those technologies in their data centers due to security policies.

Microsoft Server 2003+ is not near the security issue it was in previous versions and Linux is "known" for being more secure, but the link between them is not at this time.

Personally any system is only as secure as the people who set it up. I have done pen testing on most of the major systems and find that you can set both up to be almost just as secure as the other and the opposite is true as well. Most people here hear Windows and assume it is just as bad as it once was and has not done the research to have any true understanding and only go with the crowd. I personally prefer Linux, but have no problems with Windows other than I hate monopolies.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...