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Apple Posts Darwin / Open Source News

Hemos posted more than 14 years ago | from the trying-to-get-community-support dept.

Apple 64

Ex Machina writes "Apple's PublicSource has posted some news on the Darwin OS and other Opensource projects. The first four Darwin Developers are: Scott Anguish, Joe Gervais, Luke Howard, and Andrew Stone. The multiplatform networking architecture OpenPlay has Linux support now. Apple also has released the NetSprockets gaming code for OpenPlay. Finally, the new HeaderDoc source to HTML documentation system has been released. "

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Congratulations to Apple (1)

papo (57964) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440158)

We can only send our warmest gratitude to the Apple team who adopted the open-source model in some of their projects. I personally will seek the HeaderDoc source. Finally a great way to generate a well documented source code for C and C++. Now we, C developers, have a tool similar to the Java one!

C-Doc (1)

storem (117912) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440159)

The HeaderDoc initiative is worth some applause from the code-writing people, but I believe this is not a pioneer in this area.

Does anyone know others who do this...

OpenPlay? (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440160)

Does anyone know any more about OpenPlay?

I tried to download it (registered etc) but Netscape consistently crashes after I fill in my user name/password.

So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (2)

Uri (51845) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440161)

It seems they already have an appropriate logo [apple.com] :)

Re:OpenPlay? (1)

storem (117912) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440163)

Try this one: download now [apple.com] (excuses to Apple for avoiding their license)

DarwinOS sounds very interesting..... but (1)

browser_war_pow (100778) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440164)

when will they add powerbook support? I have a powerbook, not a powermac.

Re:OpenPlay? (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440165)

Thanks! I also managed to coerce Amaya into getting it. Roll on Mozilla...

OpenPlay... (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440166)

From README.linux:

"This is an initial port of the OpenPlay sources to Linux.
It does not currently work as the socket code is not finished."

This sort of thing actually impresses me the most -- when people like Apple are prepared to release something that isn't finished.

Re:Congratulations to Apple (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440167)

Search freshmeat. There are already plenty of documentation generating tools out for linux. Lately I've been using Robodoc, which is pretty decent. There are plenty of other tools though. Also search google (unless you are boycotting them over their patent or something) for the term "literate programming", which should find a lot of interesting things for you.

Cooperation on open gaming standards (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440168)

It seems this move is geared towards developing open gaming standards that benefit apple and linux by leveraging our combined user base. Exciting. The effect of this move seems at least 6 months off though. Good luck apple. Down with MS monopolies.

Yet another licence.... (2)

chazR (41002) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440169)

It's good to see Apple releasing this stuff, but why do they have to do it under Yet Another Licence? Is it just to keep their lawyers busy?

IANAL, but it seems to me that they could have used a BSD licence.

I am worried that the plethora of open/semi-open licences is going to cause serious integration problems. What happens if someone creates a 'larger work' containing code covered by two or more of thes 'commercial open source' licences? In the case of a dispute I can see a lot of lawyers getting rich.

Thasnks anyway Apple. It's a move in the rught direction.

Re:Yet another licence.... (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440170)

IANAL, but it seems to me that a lot of things like this get themselves sorted out when problems arise. Open Source licences are quite a new area, but as more and more things start to happen the licences will be refined -- possibly resulting in just a few licences.

Re:Only 2 weeks old! WTG, Hemos! (1)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440171)

Only 2 weeks old! WTG, Hemos!
Any day now, we'll be able to call this place News for Nerds!


I think the site you must really be looking for is more like "news for analy obsessive page reloading latest news now and all the time people." Hemos is allowed to post news as he gets them. It's not his fault that people don't submit things sooner. I'm sure anyday now some moderator will mark you as flamebait, or similar. One can always hope.

/me annoyed and cranky after a late night of insomnia
---

Re:OpenPlay... (1)

Darchmare (5387) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440172)

That's funny, Microsoft does that all the time.

(Apple isn't immune either - anyone remember early versions of OT, ie. 'Broken Transport'?)


- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com] )

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (2)

(Score: 6) (91332) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440173)

QuickTime for Java [apple.com] will work on Linux.

Re:OpenPlay... (1)

artemis67 (93453) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440174)

This sort of thing actually impresses me the most -- when people like Apple are prepared to release something that isn't finished. You must be head-over-heels in love with Microsoft, then.... ;-)

quicktime capture using Linux! (2)

wugmump (6611) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440175)

http://heroine.linuxbox.com/quicktime.html

The codecs are still proprietary, but the work has begun.

Re:OpenPlay... (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440176)

lol...but Microsoft release things that work and all problems are those on the part of users or evil people trying to defame Microsoft and attempt to stifle their ability to innovate and they're all sad hackers anyway who produce inferiour software and who would want to use that because there's no one you can sue and so on (dribble)

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440177)

I don't think it will -- the impression I got from the pages is that QuickTime for Java is just an integration between the JVM and QuickTime. So, you'd still need QuickTime ported to your OS to use QuickTime for Java.

Think about OpenGL support for Java. I can now write OpenGL apps in Java, but I still need someone to provide the OpenGL implementation on my particular OS/JVM.

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (2)

Menthos (25332) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440178)

Will it? Somehow the Quicktime for Java site assumes that you're running Windows or MacOS (like every Apple site does). Quote:

Install QuickTime 4.0
In order to install QuickTime for Java, developers will need to select 'QuickTime for Java' in the 'Custom' install option. The installers can be found at the following location:
MacOS & Windows
QuickTime 4 Installer [apple.com]

So it seems to me that, in order to download Quicktime for Java and install and run it on Linux, I have to download the Windows or MacOS installer and run it on Linux and select that I want to install "Quicktime for Java". Duh.

Re:Yet another licence.... (4)

Uri (51845) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440179)

The reason Apple chose Yet Another Licence [apple.com] is because it contains a number of Apple-centric control clauses, which prevent it from being truly free [gnu.org] :

CENTRAL CONTROL OF MODIFICATIONS

2.2 (c) if You Deploy Covered Code containing Modifications made by You, inform others of how to obtain those Modifications by filling out and submitting the information found at http://www.apple.com/publicsour ce/modifications.html [apple.com] , if available.

TERMINATION OF LICENCE

9.1 Infringement. If any portion of, or functionality implemented by, the Original Code becomes the subject of a claim of infringement, Apple may, at its option: (a) ... (b) ... or (c) suspend Your rights to use, reproduce, modify, sublicense and distribute the Affected Original Code until a final determination of the claim is made by a court or governmental administrative agency of competent jurisdiction and Apple lifts the suspension as set forth below. Such suspension of rights will be effective immediately upon Apple's posting of a notice to such effect on the Apple web site that is used for implementation of this License. ...

12.1 (c) This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically without notice from Apple if You, at any time during the term of this License, commence an action for patent infringement against Apple.

Memories (1)

pulski (126566) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440180)

This reminds me of a string of comments [slashdot.org] brought up a couple of weeks ago regarding Open-Sourcing NetSprockets.

-----

You probably knew this... (2)

/ (33804) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440181)

...but that penguin is a Quicktime mascot and not our own dear Tux. It's sort've odd that Apple would pick a penguin at the time it did, and it makes it rather worthless as a trademark, since whenever people see cute penguins these days they immediately think Linux.

Re:C-Doc (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440182)

Anyone know of a similar program that will work with the idiosyncrasies of Objective C?

Gaming Standards and Cheating (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440183)

Oh joy! I can't wait till they have open cheating standards for games, too. Afterall, open source is the choice of the cheater's generation. It's not cheating, it's open source!

Re:Yet another licence.... (1)

chadmulligan (87873) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440184)

It's good to see Apple releasing this stuff, but why do they have to do it under Yet Another Licence? Is it just to keep their lawyers busy?

Are you seriously proposing that their lawyers will let them use a BSD (or other "finished") license, and thereby put themselves out of work? If Steve Jobs proposed such an absurdity, they'd probably sue his pants off :-)... remember, "code reuse" is one of the most scary things lawyers can think of.

But it's good news. Scott Anguish and Andrew Stone are very capable people (I don't know the other two personally), and we can expect great things to come along from this collaboration.

Re:C-Doc (1)

OscarLoo (126712) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440185)

DOC++ [linuxsupportline.com] is a nice one I've used for C++ code (also works for Java). I'm a little surprised that they broke with the JavaDoc's (and DOC++, and others') convention of starting documentation comments with "/**" or "///", though.

Re:OpenPlay... (1)

Darchmare (5387) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440186)

Really?

Hrm. I must have had it all wrong, then...

:>

- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com] )

Re:Yet another licence.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440187)

---
which prevent it from being truly free:
---

Which should attract the GPL crowd, up until the point that someone tells them that it isn't the GPL itself.

Apple would be living in a dreamworld ruled by Mister Stallman if they didn't look out for their own interests. This is a "We'll scratch your back, you scratch ours" license, not a "Please take our code and let us go out of business" one.

Darwin 1.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440188)


Damn, I can hardly wait for the new version of Darwin. Release it already!

Re:C-Doc (1)

Khalid (31037) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440189)

Just wanted to say that Doxygen is very nice, I have been using it for sometime now. The 1.0 version has just been released yesterday

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (1)

Useless (11387) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440190)

Actually, the penguin logo is a bit old. I'm not sure when the dear Tux first "hatched", but i think i remember seeing the QuickTime penguin in developers documentation for QuickTime 2.5 or 3.0, or was it their 3d library. Any Mac developers remember??

Re:C-Doc (1)

damyan (44781) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440191)

DOC++ doesn't work very well with inner classes in Java.

Their licensing page doesn't work (1)

jtseng (4054) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440192)

I'm trying to download their code for the Darwin Streaming Server so I can try out streaming using my RHL6/Alpha box. You have to consent to their license first before signing up. When I press the "Yes, I agree" button, the browser starts being busy but that's about it; nothing happens.

Anyone know how I can get around this?

http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl/

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440193)

Sorry. Eventually, Apple does want to make a true QuickTime Java release that is capable of running independantly. However, right now, QuickTime for Java is just a bunch of empty classes that do nothing but use JNI (or whatever Sun's calling it these days) to hook into the QuickTime Media Layer on Macs and the QuickTime libraries on Windows. (They even provide the source in the commercial developer's kit, where it appears to have literally been entirely machine-generated from the C headers.) So, for the moment, you're out of luck. The good news is that Apple has been telling ADC members that we can expect QuickTime for Java to become a more complete solution in the near future -- a move to coordinates well with their idiotic decision to move from ObjC to Java as their primary OpenStep/Yellow Box/Cocoa/ language of choice for Mac OS X development.

Re:Their licensing page doesn't work (2)

profi (29705) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440194)

Try here [streamingserver.org] .

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (1)

imac.usr (58845) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440195)

IIRC, the somewhat rotund Apple penguin first surfaced around the time of QuickDraw 3D's first release. I've also seen it attached to the MkLinux site, though.


Re:Hey, it's Wheezy! (1)

webslacker (15723) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440196)

=))

Re:OpenPlay? (4)

HiredMan (5546) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440197)

Openplay is a collection of the codebase written by Apple and Bungie for cross-platform, multi-protocol networking and was used in Bungie's release Myth for network and internet play. OpenPlay works fine (see below) and has used in several commercial releases, but is relatively low level so there's a certain amount of re-inventing of the wheel for higher functions.

It is currently working on Mac and Windows but does not currently on Linux. We could use an experienced Linux sockets programmer to update the Linux side. This is especially true because-
Apple has also JUST released their previously closed-source Apple specific networking API NetSprockets. The plan is that the higher level API features of NetSprocket (which is OT specific at the moment) will be abstracted and rolled into OpenPlay.

The result of this will be a great cross-platform, open-source networking API supporting protocols through modules.
And as Martha Stewart says, "And that's a good thing..."

=tkk

Re:OpenPlay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440198)

"This sort of thing actually impresses me the most -- when people like Apple are prepared to release something that isn't finished."

Well, that puts them one step up from Andover.net and the slashdot source.

Linux - the new face of hypocracy.

&sign($AC[0]);

Re:So when is QuickTime 4 for Linux arriving? (3)

Dw00p (90325) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440199)

Quicktime for Linux is here. [linuxbox.com]

Re:Yet another licence.... (1)

znu (31198) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440200)

BSD license? The APSL is much more like GPL than BSD, and that's very understandable. I can't see that Apple would like, say, MS having rights to use Apple code in closed source products.

--

Re:C-Doc (1)

Zenki (31868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440201)

There is also Web and C-Web by the uber-god Knuth.

I've never tried it though :) I believe you type your C code in a way that allows comments to be mixed in with your code, and you just run the code through a special preprocessor to get a TeX source for documentation, and a gobblygook .c file that can be compiled.

Re:Yet another licence.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440202)

Just what strategic advantage do you really think that apple gains by keeping 'control' of OpenPlay?

There are plenty of little bits of IP that corporations can set free, or rather would have by now if copyrights were functioning properly.

If corporations aren't really interested in sharing then they should drop the pretense.

Many of us accept it when corps. choose to keep their little secrets. We realize that some of that development is still greed driven. Plus, with a purely proprietary licenced product everyone knows where they stand and there is little likelihood of confusion.

Whereas 'kinda free' licences create a muddled, confused mess.

Re:OpenPlay... (4)

KevinHolbrook (127120) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440203)

Actually Apple has nothing to do with the Linux port, that would be my doing.
Several individuals outside of Apple, including myself, have been the ones driving OpenPlay since release. Especially the current 1.2 version.

I rolled out the Linux port early to get the much needed portability fixes into the base source.

My usual plug for my OpenPlay web site which has cvs server for source, cvs web interface, history, etc - which Apple does not : "http://www.centrepointsoftware.com/opensource/ope nplay/openplay.html"

Kevin Holbrook
OpenPlay porting guy

Re:Yet another licence.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440204)

Then why not just use a licence that won't allow their competitors to exploit their code in a closed fashion? Why bother with 'almost-gpl' or 'almost bsdl' when it seems one or the other would do just as well.

Besides, who are you people kidding here when you claim that it would be a strategic disadvantage to Apple if other companies 'stole their code'? Anyone of consequence has their own version of this already.

What Apple gains from the dissemination of this code is part of a game coding standard that is both ubiquitous and runs on Apple systems.

Oddly enough, this is the same age old 'Apple problem' of wider 3rd party support versus Apple central control.

i clicked on the stone link... (2)

kevin lyda (4803) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440205)

came across a lot of apps. they seem to be nextstep/darwin apps... what, no linuxport? what;s the difficulty in offering linux versions if darwin is supposed to be unixy?

Re:i clicked on the stone link... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440206)

What, exactly, do you expect? Stone made apps for NeXTStep/OPENSTEP and now OSX, so why are you surprised that the apps seem to be for this system? If they should offer Linux ports of their software, then I must ask (as an owner/user fo NeXT hardware) what is "the difficulty in offering " NeXTStep/OPENSTEP "versions if" Linux "is supposed to be unixy?" Before attacking others, should you not try to understand where they come from?

Re:Yet another licence.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440207)

why do they have to do it under Yet Another Licence? Is it just to keep their lawyers busy?

License? who cares, do what I do: don't read it, and click the "accept" the software button. Contracts are only binding when both sides share an understanding of the terms. If they wish for me to understand the terms, they should construct a simple system for quizzing me. The way it works now, they seem to me to be urging that I accept the software without reading the license. And, now that I've discovered that lawyers are coming to slashdot and quoting people, I want to play too. Please quote me: defendant accepted software without understanding or agreeing to license terms. I would put in the eminently quotable little smiley, except I'm dead serious.

Hey, is there some legal distinction between the word "licence" and the word "license"? Because, there is no such distinction [m-w.com] in ordinary American English.

Re:You probably knew this... (1)

DarkFall (14299) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440208)

The QuickTime penguin has been around as the QuickTime mascot for at least 4 years if not more..it's hardly new, and it was merely an example of what QuickDraw 3D at the time could do.

Re:i clicked on the stone link... (1)

kevin lyda (4803) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440209)

as far as i know pretty much every gnu app will compile under next. in fact next gave gcc it's objective c support. i'm currently hunting a bug in tcsh and i note that it supports NeXT. so the free software community is doing it's bit.

and i wasn't aware that asking for what seems to me is a non-trivial port was an "attack."

so i'll ask again, where are the linux ports? are there tech reasons for them not to exist?

Re:i clicked on the stone link... (1)

sanguish (130391) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440210)

Porting of console utilities is trivial in most cases. In this particular case, these aren't even Darwin apps.. these are Mac OS X Server apps.

Stone's apps are full GUI apps using Appkit, Foundation and other classes that are only available on Mac OS X Server.

Porting these to X or another windowing environment is non trivial (impossible without rewriting) without Apple's frameworks on those platforms.



Scott Anguish
http://www.stepwise.com/

Re:Yet another licence.... (1)

Darchmare (5387) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440211)

---
Just what strategic advantage do you really think that apple gains by keeping 'control' of OpenPlay?
---

Not much, probably. But the whole of Darwin has some value to Apple. Would you suggest they use conflicting licenses?

---
If corporations aren't really interested in sharing then they should drop the pretense.
---

You are limiting yourself if you think that 'sharing' requires a GPL licensed codebase. While I have no problem with the GPL itself (nobody HAS to use it, it has been used with good software, etc), I DO have a problem with the assumption that anything not put under the GPL is 'evil'. I have yet to see a convincing argument that proprietary software is somehow morally inferior to GPL'd software. Apple has no more draconian rules attached to their license than does the GPL.

In the end, though, you don't have to use the APSL. And they don't have to use the GPL. What's the big problem?

---
We realize that some of that development is still greed driven.
---

Not all development is greed driven. That's a myth, although Microsoft would seem to support your theory.

Much of it is actually "Food" or "Shelter" driven. Just like any other job. I'm sorry, but not everyone can make money off of support, customization, or speaking tours.

---
Whereas 'kinda free' licences create a muddled, confused mess.
---

I've seen a lot of confusion over the GPL - more than any other, really (you don't see it yourself, as you're probably pretty familiar with it already). As for 'kinda free', if the GPL were truly free there wouldn't be nearly as many stipulations attached to it.


- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com] )

Re:C-Doc (1)

sanguish (130391) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440212)

yes!

You want AutoDoc. It is the equiv of this program for Objective-C.

Have a look at http://www.stepwise.com/Softrak and search for AutoDoc.

Its Java on top of quicktime, not QT on Java (1)

wagnerer (53943) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440213)

All the 'plugin' gives is the ability for java apps to make calls to quicktime, it doesn't try to implement quicktime on top of java. You still need a native quicktime library available for the java-quicktime calls to work.

Re:Yet another licence.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440214)

Thank you for saying this. I appreciate the people who develop software for free. However, the majority of software that takes me time to write is neither open source nor free. However, I have to eat, and coding is my biggest skill. I just wouldn't have the money to survive if I didn't sell my software. --- Not all development is greed driven. That's a myth, although Microsoft would seem to support your theory. Much of it is actually "Food" or "Shelter" driven. Just like any other job. I'm sorry, but not everyone can make money off of support, customization, or speaking tours. ---

Re:i clicked on the stone link... (1)

kevin lyda (4803) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440215)

thanks for the technical reason. now, does the gnustep project have anything to contribute to what lacks? are you talking about something similar to a widget set and possibly a class lib that needs porting or does these frameworks go farther? also, any idea if apple would be able to help or will offer linux equivs of those frameworks, and if developers are asking apple to do so?

The difficulty is... (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440216)

GnuSTEP isn't finished yet.

Once it is, expect a flood of around 200 apps.

-jcr

Info about Mac OS X (1)

JetEye (130484) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440217)

Can anyone tell me some good places to look after info about MacOS X. I know about www.stone.com - www.stepwise.com & the usual Mac news/rumor sites- but I want something that explains more in depth. It's not that the mentioned web sites are badly written or so, it's just seems like there is not much stuff to read about this topic.

Re:Yet another licence.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440218)

Your ideas intrigue me. Be sure to give me your name so that I can properly credit you when I release my closed-source, Windows-only improvements to gcc. The statement "A /. poster is the person who proved to me that if I don't read the GPL, it doesn't apply to me!" just doesn't seem quite good enough.

QuickTime for Java != QuickTime for everybody (1)

Tofuhead (40727) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440219)

QuickTime for Java only allows Java appl[ets|ications] running on Mac OS or Windows to use the QuickTime API. That is all. It is a closed-source solution for the closed-source community (of which I am also a member).

Read the General Overview [apple.com] , one click away from the page to which you linked.

< tofuhead >

Re:i clicked on the stone link... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1440220)

Also, what is Apple's current stance with regard to GNUStep? Is it to "public source" the low-level stuff, but maintain higher levels as a proprietary Apple GUI?

Re:DarwinOS sounds very interesting..... but (1)

HappyOscar (65200) | more than 14 years ago | (#1440221)

A powerbook is a powermac. Unless you have one of the '040 powerbooks. Linux supports many PowerPC powerbooks, and i should imagine that Darwin does, too.
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