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Compiz Gets Thumbs-Up for Gutsy Gibbon

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the cheeky-monkey dept.

Linux 303

Da Chronic writes "After a vigorous debate at the last Ubuntu Technical Board meeting, the board decided to ship Ubuntu 7.10 with Compiz enabled by default. The decision was made despite the fact that Compiz still has some significant issues relating to drivers and Xorg. 'For instance, there are some problems — like accelerated video playback issues with Intel drivers — that can only be resolved by using the EXA accelerated rendering framework which is still not ready yet. When asked why Intel isn't addressing the driver issue, technical board member Mathew Garrett explained that "Intel are working on the basis that composited desktops won't be ready for rolling out until EXA is stable enough anyway, so it's not a concern [for them].' In the end, all but one member voted to include Compiz in Gutsy."

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303 comments

Another stupid name (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592429)

For another shitty distro. Get with the program folks. The general public is not going to buy into this.

General public (5, Funny)

general_public (1156431) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592753)

general public is not going to buy into this.

Actually I love Ubuntu and am looking forward to upgrading to Gutsy when it comes out.

Ubuntu (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592431)

Ubuntu sucks

and Compiz is what again? (4, Informative)

ickypoo (568859) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592433)

Here's your wikipedia. Thanks, submitter.

Compiz is one of the first compositing window managers for the X Window System that uses 3D graphics hardware to create fast compositing desktop effects for window management.

Re:and Compiz is what again? (1, Offtopic)

fm6 (162816) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592899)

All of today's stories are being edited by kdawson and Zonk. (I guess the real editors are taking an extra-long weekend.) So expect lots of stories that make you scratch your head.

What's worrying me... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592447)

What name will they use for the release that comes after the "zesty zebra" release?!?

Re:What's worrying me... (5, Funny)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592467)

What name will they use for the release that comes after the "zesty zebra" release?!?

anonymous anorexic anacondas

Re:What's worrying me... (1)

i7dude (473077) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592677)

as stupid as it seems...guessing release titles is quite fun.

my turn,

asexual alcoholic amoebas
altruistic arthritic arachnids

dude.

Re:What's worrying me... (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592895)

I dunno, I'm still wondering about this version - which end the gust is coming from (or if it is coming out of both ends?)

Re:What's worrying me... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592955)

I have been thinking about tryin undutru, but I am waiting for "nasty nigger" to come out..

i for one (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592451)

welcome our gusty gisbo overlords.

Re:i for one (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592601)

> welcome our gusty gisbo overlords.

We set AC up with the perfect opportunity for a Goatse Gibbon, or a Gutsy Goatse, or a Goatse's Guts, and he swings and misses.

*sigh*

Re:i for one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593811)

I agree. It's absolutely awful, these ACs.... *sigh*

Compiz is...? (2, Interesting)

BloodyIron (939359) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592453)

Sorry, pardon my ignorance, but what is Compiz?

Perhaps giving a brief description of what Compiz does in the article is in order?

Don't get me wrong, I would consider myself a fairly adept GNU/Linux user, but that does not necessarilly mean I know everything :/

Help computer...

Re:Compiz is...? (1)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592529)

I don't know why you're saying a description should appear in the article, since you clearly didn't read the article. The second paragraph of the article states:

Compiz is a compositing window manager that includes a number of highly sophisticated visual effects like window shadows, transparency, and desktop zooming.
Now, you're right they probably should have put a description in the summary, but then they wouldn't give people (like ickypoo a few posts up) a chance to get a cheap +5, Informative with a Wikipedia link.

Re:Compiz is...? (3, Informative)

BloodyIron (939359) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592543)

yeah, i've been trying to post an appology outlining that my original post was being written as the original reply was being posted, i didnt see it.

sorry.

Re:Compiz is...? (4, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592575)

This is simply unacceptable behavior for a Slashdot reader. You never admit that you were wrong, and you certainly never apologize. Next time, reply with something like "The article was Slashdotted, you insensitive clod!"

I'll forgive you this time, though.

Re:Compiz is...? (1)

BloodyIron (939359) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592603)

Being silly?

Being a dick?

I'm not certain as I am still kinda new here...
dont kill me, pls, it'll make a mess.

Re:Compiz is...? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593169)

I'm not certain as I am still kinda new here...

You must be new... Ah, yes you've already admitted that. The GP (that means 'grandparent post' in /. speak) was being silly, although this is a prime example of 'never a truer word spoken in jest.' Most people on /. find it very difficult to admit when they're wrong, that's why that post has been modded-up: 'funny'.

There are a number of other things you should know about /. particularly all the in-jokes: Natalie Portman, hot grits, in Soviet Russia [wikipedia.org], Steve Ballmer's chair fixation [battellemedia.com] the list goes on. If you don't understand one of these, don't ask, you'll probably get modded-down, the maxim here is: 'Just fucking Google it [justfuckinggoogleit.com].'

Another thing: you may note that I am posting as 'Anonymous Coward', this is because I am a 'Karma whore' (a concept you will soon become familiar with). I cannot post as my normal account because this post will probably be--rightfully--modded 'offtopic' and that would damage my karma. So welcome to /. ! Hope you enjoy your time here, mind out for trolls, and may your karma be as great as your intellect.

Re:Compiz is...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593189)

Probably a silly dick.

Re:Compiz is...? (1)

wile_e_wonka (934864) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592599)

3D rendering:
Desktop cube, see-through windows, other desktop effects (but not with the detailed configurability of Beryl)

Re:Compiz is...? (2, Insightful)

Reverend528 (585549) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593697)

but not with the detailed configurability of Beryl

or the stability of all of those window managers that don't do the worthless fancy stuff.

Re:Compiz is...? (5, Insightful)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592943)

Compiz is the thing that MS gets criticized to death when they dare to use it in their OS (called sometimes bloat, or stupid effects, shit, etc), and that is critically aclaimed when Apple, some Linuzzz distro or use it in their distributions.

Re:Compiz is...? (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593115)


You got that right! The reason I adopted Linux all those years ago was because it was robust and efficient. I could (and did) compile my kernel to remove unnecessary support for processors I didn't have, SCSI drivers, etc. And now it seems to get more and more filled with bloat and toys like this. I started using Ubuntu about a year ago, just out of laziness, really. But I think I'll go back to Debian. It just feels less flabby and I don't spend my time removing music players I don't want that came by default.

Re:Compiz is...? (2, Insightful)

someone1234 (830754) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593119)

One thing you forgot, in M$Win it would be enabled by default, and wired in without any chance to remove it.
With Linux, you at least get a chance to find a distro without it, or be able to remove it completely .

Re:Compiz is...? (3, Informative)

sYkSh0n3 (722238) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593267)

MS gets criticized because when they implement it, it hogs system resources and requires bleeding edge hardware to run. My 6 yr old computer will run Beryl with no effect on system performance, but i can't turn on the effects in Vista without my computer slowing to a crawl. (i tried to run it for 30 days so when i said how horrible it was, i could give examples from personal experience. i only made it 10 days, but i got plenty to bitch about.)

Re:Compiz is...? (0)

Wowsers (1151731) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593269)

Think of Compiz as the uncool (problematic*) parent of Beryl. Even the name Compiz is uncool IMO.

* I've tried to use Compiz, it never works, but Beryl works flawlessly.

Bloat++ (5, Insightful)

zblach (977591) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592455)

guh. Why not make a package w/ auto-configurable scripts available for install? Put a box in adept, or something "Click here for flashy graphics!!11". I run Kubuntu because I like having a *nix compatible desktop, not because I want another toy. I understand that some people are turned to linux for stability, and some for flashy graphics, but why include by default? Aero competition? Hope it's easily (and completely) removable. -z

Re:Bloat++ (0)

BloodyIron (939359) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592507)

I imagine it would be easy to remove if they just gave us the root password.... (or am i getting my distros mixed up?)

Re:Bloat++ (3, Informative)

notthe9 (800486) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592715)

No one is hiding a root password from anyone. Ubuntu by default install with no root account. The idea is that you will do all your administrative stuff using sudo. You can easily enable the root account with the password of your choice.

As to removability, I would assume a single apt-get call or a couple clicks in a graphical window manager will remove Compiz completely. (You'd sudo the tasks if you are not root.)

Re:Bloat++ (1, Offtopic)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593371)

How can there be no root account when I see processes running owned by user "root"?

Re:Bloat++ (3, Informative)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593751)

It's not that there is no root account. There is a root account that cannot be logged into without first setting a password (using sudo from a user account that is allowed to run sudo).

The idea is that no one needs to be root except to run particular commands (using sudo or gksudo). If you do need to run root you will create the root password and log in as root and be able to shoot yourself in the foot if you point the run in the wrong direction (ie: rm -R /. instead of rm -R ./).

Re:Bloat++ (2, Informative)

Zonk (troll) (1026140) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593019)

I imagine it would be easy to remove if they just gave us the root password.... (or am i getting my distros mixed up?)
sudo passwd

Now you have a root password.

Still, to disable Compiz all you'd have to do is click on "System"->"Preferences"->"Desktop Effects" and press the "Enable Desktop Effects" toggle button. No password required (it's a per user setting).

If you want to completely remove Compiz from the system, just click on "System"->"Administration"->"Synaptic Package Manager". Type in your password, and then do a search for "desktop-effects" and "compiz-core" (all over compiz packages depend on this, so removing it will remove them as well) and remove them.

Re:Bloat++ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592743)

In Ubuntu (Gnome) there is a check box under settings. It's easy to remove from Kubuntu (KDE) as well. Effects are pretty "light" by default, so maybe only "Bloat+" instead of "++" I think...

Re:Bloat++ (1)

FictionPimp (712802) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592877)

as far as I know, compiz breaks 3d game support, so I have to turn it off anyways.

You don't know very far. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593041)

n/t.

Re:Bloat++ (1)

pizpot (622748) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593153)

I installed 7.10beta5. it seems perfect exept for 2 things. 1. Compiz kills 3d gaming. 2. 7.10beta5 kills 3d gaming. My war3 under wine runs with poor performance and it was fine before when I was using 7.04. :-(

Re:Bloat++ (1)

Reapman (740286) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593385)

I heard this, and it makes sense, but I was able to play at least World of Warcraft via Cedega (Wine) no problem, although it did have an impact on performance... 6800 Ultra, P4 3.2, 2G of RAM. I occasionaly ran into issues, but then again I occasionally ran into issues with Beryl even if I did nothing. Guess I got lucky.

Hopefully between maturing of this software, and ATI opening their drivers, stuff like this should'nt be an issue for tooooooo much longer.

Re:Bloat++ (1)

ryanov (193048) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593457)

I also can't see most Java applications with Beryl installed on my current Feisty machine. If I change from Beryl back to the KDE window manager, stuff shows up where prior there was just a big blank box (looked like the app froze, but it just would not display).

Very inconvenient.

Re:Bloat++ (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593299)

Why not make a package w/ auto-configurable scripts available for install?

Because then you have to manage the bloat of having two similar systems that are almost but not quite identical.

What part of using your card's 3D acceleration to make your whole desktop faster (and optionally prettier at the same time) sounds bad to you? This is almost universally a good thing.

s/compiz/kwin/ (4, Funny)

DreadSpoon (653424) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593703)

You realize that Kwin is including all of the 3D graphical foofah in new versions, right? Compiz is a WM that you can swap out with Metacity (or anything else) whenever you want, but your desktop is coming with the special effects built-in to the default window manager.

Thankfully, you're using KDE, so you'll have at least 8 checkboxes to disable it. ;)

I don't get it (1, Insightful)

pintpusher (854001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592481)

Maybe I'm becoming more and more of a luddite... I played with compiz a bit maybe a year ago using XFCE and it was pretty cool, but that's all it was. It didn't actually do anything to improve my computing experience other than look cool. That makes it mostly a waste of electrons, IMO.

But then, I now use wmii [suckless.org] almost exclusively, if I'm not just using plain ol' screen [gnu.org].

damn, you be a good poster and go check your links and there goes that frsit psot. oh well...

Re:I don't get it (5, Interesting)

SlashdotOgre (739181) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592695)

I've been running Compiz in its various forms (compiz-quinnstorm, beryl, now compiz-fusion) on Gentoo since around March of 2006, and while I can see where you're coming from I have found some of its features actually useful. The ones I particularly like are: the expose clone (google 'expose mac to see what I'm referring to), the live alt-tabs (you see what's running in the alt-tab windows), it allows for extensive key bindings (I know you can use other programs like xbindkeys, but it at least beats Metacity's binding capability), and transparency (compiz isn't required to do this, but it makes it a lot easier than other WM's -- basically it's designed with that in mind).

Most of the eye candy doesn't eat too much CPU, and it all easily be enabled and disabled from it's control panel (compiz-fusion uses ccsm which works great, beryl-settings-manager was also pretty good). I was also impressed by beryl-manager (now fusion-icon) which made switching windows and decoration managers easier than ever.

Re:I don't get it (1)

russ1337 (938915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593291)

>>> "Most of the eye candy doesn't eat too much CPU...."

I agree 100%. I've been running the Compiz with heaps of features turned on, on my old machine which is a Athlon 1.9GHZ with 512 RAM and a GForce MX-440 graphics card. (see full specs here [blogspot.com] (see PC called Number2))

While the specs for my 'number2' machine are pretty good compared to what some people are running Linux on, there probably at the lower end of what 'the average Ubuntu user' has, or at least what is being sold with Ubuntu pre-installed.

I read a good review of Ubuntu a few weeks ago in a British PC Mag, and they'd compared the UI to Win-95. I think this was a little unfair seeing as it is so customizable. With Compiz enabled by default it might encourage those shallow Vista Fanboy reviewers that focus on the 'glossy', to actually give Ubuntu the praise it deserves...

Personally, I think it was a good move and puts Ubuntu that much closer to playing with the big-boys in the home desktop arena. I mean, if you're after glossy on your home PC, why pay for Vista when you can get Ubuntu for free?

Re:I don't get it (1)

ajs (35943) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593843)

Most of the eye candy doesn't eat too much CPU, and it all easily be enabled and disabled from it's control panel (compiz-fusion uses ccsm which works great, beryl-settings-manager was also pretty good). I was also impressed by beryl-manager (now fusion-icon) which made switching windows and decoration managers easier than ever.
Gutsy doesn't expose the control panel by default. Their default mechanism simply provides a radio dialog with three options: no effets (this turns off compiz), some effects (this enables compiz, but with most features turned off) and lots of effects (this turns on most of the effects that aren't outright disruptive to users who aren't expecting them).

I would have preferred something between that and the settings manager. I'm also not pleased with being unable to find the window decoration controls (I think they've assumed you'll just use the overall Gnome theme management for that, but you can't select any advanced compiz decoration controls through that, which include nice things like translucent title bars).

Re:I don't get it (1)

pintpusher (854001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593991)

I played around quite a bit with the transparency stuff during my time using it. Its definitely a cool feature and potentially pretty useful in terms of helping with the stacked windows problem of a traditional desktop. No doubt.

But I don't think it really solves the problem of dragging stuff around with a mouse and the other problems with a traditional WM model. This tiling thing with good keyboard control has blown my productivity through the roof... now if I could just get off /.

I'm currently running a dual-head rig with wmii -- that gives me one window in full screen on the left and multiple tiled windows on the right and moving between them is effortless. but that's me ;)

Re:I don't get it (4, Insightful)

kerohazel (913211) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592725)

For me it's a convenient way to answer someone who asks me "Linux? Why do you use _Linux_?"

Not much of a meaningful answer, but then again when posed like this it's not really a meaningful question.

Re:I don't get it (2, Informative)

ericrost (1049312) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592769)

Maybe this'll help, with a decent 3d graphics chipset, it makes the desktop more responsive by offloading the desktop rendering to the GPU completely.

Re:I don't get it (1)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592819)

Maybe I'm becoming more and more of a luddite... I played with compiz a bit maybe a year ago using XFCE and it was pretty cool, but that's all it was. It didn't actually do anything to improve my computing experience other than look cool. That makes it mostly a waste of electrons, IMO.

But then, I now use wmii almost exclusively, if I'm not just using plain ol' screen.

damn, you be a good poster and go check your links and there goes that frsit psot. oh well..


Keep in mind that Ubuntu is all about ease of use and flash. It is not intended for users who see beauty in Blackbox or WM. But, I think that is the joy of Linux. If you don't like it, use another distro. Seeing that you like a lightweight (read: looks like shit) window manager, you might find Xubuntu, Gentoo or Slackware more to your liking. Better yet, you can just run in something other than init5 and kick your mouse to the curb.

And yes, it Compiz can easily be disabled.

Re:I don't get it (1)

y86 (111726) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592845)

SELL SELL SELL!!

Eye candy will sell the Ubuntu product. Stability / Security....... most users don't care -- what they do like is flashy shiny buttons.

"Hey check this out, look how cool the desktop is... and it's secure and stable!"

Re:I don't get it (5, Interesting)

Nutty_Irishman (729030) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592907)

I originally thought the same thing with Beryl (the breakoff from Compiz, which is now remerging into compiz-fusion), and thought, "hey it looks nice, but that's about it". I left it installed on my machine as it was pretty stable and didn't see a need to remove it. After a while I started rearranging and managing my desktop-- all development work in one window, terminal windows in another, email/web browser in another, and the last for visualization apps (imageJ, matlab, etc.). It wasn't until I had all four desktops being active used that I realized how much easier it was to multitask with a more sophisticated windows manager. I could actively switch between desktops fast, drag and drop items from one desktop to the other, separate global and local task switchers-- all much faster and with less downtime than before. Now I find it rather limiting to use a linux box that doesn't have it installed.

The only thing really holding it back is the stability issues (my desktop has no problems, but my laptop crashes at least once a day with it enabled). It doesn't hurt to install it and give it a try-- if you don't find it useful at first but it runs stable, then leave it installed-- you might come back and find it useful someday.

Re:I don't get it (1)

Ajehals (947354) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593681)

I find that a decent pager will give you most of the benefits without any of the drawbacks, although I should admit that after installing beryl on etch I found its a nice to have if you have the hardware and if you are likely to need to demo Linux to people, you can use the; "its secure, its fast, its robust and its pretty [spin the cube...weeeee]". At the end of the day it comes down to what you want and what makes you more productive, if its productivity you are after you can probably give beryl a miss. What I will say though is that having it on by default may (depending on how they are implementing it) mean that more people end up assuming that Ubuntu is "crap" as it doesn't work on their machine. It was nice having Ubuntu as a quick demo to throw onto a PII with a crappy graphics card and have it just run.

Re:I don't get it (2, Interesting)

Trifthen (40989) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593109)

Did you run top while using Compiz? I'd think letting the video-card handle all the effects (vid cards these days handle games with requirements far more brutal than a wussy little desktop) would be way more efficient than rectally violating the CPU. I've seen X bolt to the top of my CPU lists frequently, and I just roll my eyes every time.

I've actually been waiting for it to stabilize and for Compiz and Beryl to quit arguing amongst themselves for just this reason. The eye candy is nice, but I just want a system that doesn't throw a tantrum because I'm desktop-switching. From the Google videos I've seen of Compiz in action, that doesn't look like a problem.

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593163)

I tried Compiz when I upgraded my laptop to Slackware 12 -- it's included by default so I gave it a go (took a bit of experimenting to make it work...). The wobbly windows are cool and it seems to have a couple of features which may possibly be useful e.g. dragging windows between virtual desktops and the spinny cube thing. However, I found it a bit slow and unstable for my taste and there's nothing to increase productivity or anything useful enough to make me leave Icewm and Fluxbox.
... Recently I started using a tiling window manager (Ion - http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/ion/ [modeemi.fi]) and my productivity has gone through the roof!

It makes things more responsive... (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593175)

When a window is covered/exposed you don't need to redraw the window contents - a copy is already on the graphics card.

This makes the whole machine feel more snappy when you move windows around.

Spinning windows also stimulates normal users drool glands. Doing it better than Vista is a good thing (and let's face it, that's not hard to do).

Re:I don't get it (1)

Teun (17872) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593447)

It didn't actually do anything to improve my computing experience other than look cool. That makes it mostly a waste of electrons, IMO.
I find it (Beryl in my case) to accelerate most things I do on the desktop.
Switching between open windows is clearly more agile.

The most remarkable thing I noticed is that my GF (yeah, OK this is /.) finally grasped the concept of having multiple tasks open at the same time when she saw them in 3-D on the cube.
Previously she would routinely close one application before opening the next, now she just flips between them.

to boldly go... (2)

downix (84795) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592487)

or to crash and burn, that is the question. Ubuntu might be making a brave move, or a bad move, but only time will tell. If their gamble pays off, they might be on the cutting edge, and with a marketable, noticeable advantage. If not, well... there's always Knoppix.

Re:to boldly go... (1)

BloodyIron (939359) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592639)

One thing that really turns me off of M$ is their long turn around for product improvement.

And no, I am not talking about the distance between XP and Vista, while that was long, I am meaning more things like Service Packs (I still shudder realizing that the "latest" version of XP REQUIRES A FLOPPY TO LOAD DEVICE DRIVERS DURING INSTALLATION), and other features like between 98 and ME/2000.

Let's hope they pick up the pace with how fast GNU/Linux devs are getting.

Re:to boldly go... (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593461)

> (I still shudder realizing that the "latest" version of XP REQUIRES A FLOPPY TO LOAD DEVICE DRIVERS DURING INSTALLATION)

No, it can use a floppy to load extra drivers if you need them. I've never had to do so. Whereas in the average Linux installer, if it doesn't come with the drivers already bundled, you're just SOL.

It would have been nice if the installer kernel were able to read USB thumb drives, but reinstalling isn't somethign I do often enough to care.

Re:to boldly go... (1)

niteice (793961) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593489)

Funny you should say that, because XP isn't the latest release. Vista can load drivers from a CD, or USB disk, or most other storage mediums. Not a Microsoft apologist (I run Kubuntu myself), but I hate seeing blatantly wrong information.

well... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20592505)

as long as that "fallback configuration tool" that was linked here a few weeks ago works properly, i guess it shouldnt cause too many problems. lets hope that the installer will intelligently choose the correct manager.

Does Beryl = Compiz now? (1)

Evets (629327) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592607)

I played around with Beryl a while back. Unfortunately, it was during a period when they were having problems with SVN and their website was hacked and taken down. Since then, I got the gist that they were working towards an un-fork with Compiz.

I really liked it, but there were a lot of problems - nothing insurmountable, but it did take a lot of work searching through forums and playing around with configurations to get everything the way I wanted it. There were stability issues, but I was using a lot of pre-release features and plugins.

So question... does Beryl = Compiz now? And if so, is it stable, or is it just expected to be once 7.10 is ready to go?

Re:Does Beryl = Compiz now? (4, Informative)

Nimey (114278) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592805)

The old Compiz team is concentrating on the Compiz-Fusion core, while the old Beryl team is concentrating on the plugins (eye candy goodness).

So, Compiz + Beryl == Compiz Fusion.

On I8K/GeForce2Go? (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592693)

How about running on my Inspiron 8000 nVidia GeForce2Go?

I thought it would work in 7.4, but it didn't seem to make any difference. Maybe I'm not just setting it on right. I just want to offload some X processing from my CPU to my graphics chip, to make the workstation run faster overall. I don't need the fancy tricks to work, though it would be nice to try them once.

Is there a list of testing progress per graphics chip somewhere?

Re:On I8K/GeForce2Go? (1)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593165)

I just want to offload some X processing from my CPU to my graphics chip, to make the workstation run faster overall.

Compiz doesn't actually do that in practice yet. On a reasonably modern CPU + GPU combo it won't slow you down, but the current version doesn't speed you up compared to a traditional window manager. Further, your graphics card (GeForce 2 Go) is old enough that it would have to offload a significant chunk of the rendering work to the CPU anyway.

Based on the last benchmarks I saw, the minimum graphics card to not get a blatant performance loss from compiz with any useful effects is a mid-range card from 2003 or so (the GeForce 2 is from 2000).

Ubuntu is just Eye Candy (-1, Troll)

Kilz (741999) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592719)

As a long time Ubuntu user (almost 4k posts on the Ubuntu forum)I learned some things 1. Eye candy will always be worked on over functionality. 2. Ubuntu is a word that means "I don't know Debian exists" 3. Candy coating also is required in your dealings with other Ubuntu users. 4. Developers need to have the steps to do something spelled out or they dont do it. 5. If Debian doesnt implement a major improvement that isnt eye candy. It will never be done. 6. Developers have a right to make their mailing list private so they dont have to hear complaints. 7. When you know enough to use the terminal, you are overdue to switch distro's. 8. The idiot who cant install and complains is king for the day on the forums. 9. Not one Ubuntu new user knows what a search is. (And they want to turn on compiz? expect 20k new posts the day after release, all on the same subject) 10.The name of the next version is designed to make you think something other than eye candy is going to be added. But dont hold your breath or you will look like a blue baboon.

Re:Ubuntu is just Eye Candy (1)

_14k4 (5085) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592841)

I got bored with Slackware and various other distros... and one day I decided to try Ubuntu's latest release. I was pissed off at XP and said, flatly, if Ubuntu gives me shit, I won't use it.

It's worked since day one. Anything "extra" I've gone and screwed up, I've done on my own. I use the terminal almost exclusively. (Shh: for nethack when I'm not doing other things in vi.)

I just wanted a lazy OS that wasn't XP. Would another distro fully recognize my wifi card, wired card, usb devices, etc? It was easy as pie to get my Microchip PICKit2 working. I am sure it would be just as easy in another distro; but at the point I usually want to work on other things, in other distros, I'm still either playing with ifconfig or getting X to work properly...

Plus, Beryl actually does good things for me: I'll run WoW (via Wine) fullscreen, and still have access to other desktops by simply twisting the cube around to another side...

Re:Ubuntu is just Eye Candy (1)

ch0ad (1127549) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593883)

i am exactly the same - i just want an os i can use with little hassle, that isn't XP

ubuntu seems more and more stable, faster and more compatible every release and i love it.

Re:Ubuntu is just Eye Candy (1)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593561)

Just because many of the people who post on the Ubuntu forums are noobs doesn't mean that the distro itself is only for noobs. Sure, Ubuntu is just Debian with lazy defaults - but for many applications that happens to be exactly what is needed.

What happened to Ubuntu? (1)

paullb (904941) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592835)

Dapper was the last decent release. Since then, every release seems on a downward spiral in terms of stability. Now they're adding buggy compiz _by default_ What was wrong with that 1 click enable system they previously had?

Re:What happened to Ubuntu? (1)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593653)

Now they're adding buggy compiz _by default_ What was wrong with that 1 click enable system they previously had?

My guess is that they'll be using a reasonably stable version of compiz. What's wrong with the one click disable system they'll have, anyway?

As for Dapper being more stable than the releases since, that's by design. The next extra-stable release (version 8.4, code name "Hardy Heron") will come out next April.

Eye candy? Meh. (1)

kurbchekt (890891) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592963)

Great, just something else I'll have to disable in order to get Ubuntu working on my old box. Hey Canonical, how about fixing initramfs instead of adding eye candy so my machine will actually boot after install?

Why not the latest? (-1, Troll)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 6 years ago | (#20592973)

Why didn't they ship this with the most up-to-date Ubuntu relase, specifically, Hairy Hardon?

I bet if you ask for help about Gutsy, instantly blame your problem on using an old version...

XGL or AIGLX (1)

SlashdotOgre (739181) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593005)

I browsed the article but didn't see it specify how they'll be going about getting the effects. I presume AIGLX, although in personal experience (been running compiz since the coffee-buzz days on Gentoo), XGL has been the better performer (albeit it requires the proprietary ATI fglrx drivers). For the last couple months I switched to the r300 drivers on my Dell D610 laptop with the X300M card, and while I like the fact that it's free, I do admit I got better performance from fglrx (which doesn't support AIGLX at the moment). ATI's recent moves to open their drivers more may be interesting, I just hope that offering compiz too soon without good hardware & driver support may spoil some peoples experience on it (I am aware Fedora has had beryl since FC6, but it wasn't set by default).

On a side note, I upgraded to Xorg 7.3 (xorg-server-1.4) on Monday, and that seems to have broken compiz-fusion (probably due to the new ABI changes). This is on the same ati card with the r300 drivers mentioned above, re-emerging my xorg/compiz components didn't help (I haven't tried since than though).

Re:XGL or AIGLX (1)

physicsnick (1031656) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593449)

It will be entirely through AIGLX, which does work with the ATI open-source drivers (not fglrx) on many ATI cards. There is no way Gutsy would ship with Xgl (let alone by default).

So as far as I know, it will ship with open-source Intel and ATI and binary NVIDIA drivers by default, with Compiz activated on all cards that support it.

window redraw problems (2, Interesting)

kote-men-do (881870) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593007)

Anyone else experience window redraw problems with the latest compiz?

Windows won't redraw (no text as you are typing, no scrolling, no menu's) until I drag them or toggle their level of transparency.

Using an nVidia 7600GS here.

View from the bottom (5, Insightful)

fishthegeek (943099) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593011)

I teach at a technical high school, and I use Ubuntu, Vista, XP, and OS X in the course for integration lessons. The kids Ooooh at Vista and OS X but when they discover that Ubuntu can do compositing in a flashier way (with Compiz Fusion) than either of the other two platforms and that it is free they immediately ask for one of the Ship it CDs that I happen to keep around.

I'm not saying that I evangelize Linux but since it is free, and I do teach it I find it very convenient to be able to just furnish them a copy on the spot. Flashy sells. It sells cars, bombers and hookers why not use it to sell an OS? Before anyone posts a response about bloat please remember that these are primarily 15 year old kids and the concepts of bloat are just academic to them. They won't care about bloat until they are running their own network.

Re:View from the bottom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593577)

Flashy sells. It sells cars, bombers and hookers why not use it to sell an OS? Before anyone posts a response about bloat please remember that these are primarily 15 year old kids and the concepts of bloat are just academic to them.
Unfortunately, this is all too true. Flashy is also one of the primary delivery vehicles for adware/spyware/viruses, simply because it sells to the general public to well. It also works in polictics. Perhaps you should treat this as an opportunity to teach kids that traps often lie behind the flashiness of things. Choices shouldn't be made on the flashiness alone, most of those decisions result in bad experiences even if the party remains delusional about the results, blinded by the flash.

Re:View from the bottom (5, Funny)

sharkey (16670) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593881)

They won't care about bloat until they are running their own network.

Or until they find it in one of the hookers you mentioned.

A Compo-whating Window Manager? (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593057)

I still read that as "A Composting Window Manager".

I guess it depends on what kind of windows you have open.

What about the baby pooh brown theme? (1)

paullb (904941) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593321)

Developers should really concentrate their efforts on more important things like getting rid of the baby pooh by default colour scheme =) /me runs and hides

And now... (1)

lol slashdot (1128487) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593339)

The main reason so many new, unfamiliar users are converting to Ubuntu (yes, sadly the eye candy) is coming as a default?

Man your battle stations, Ubuntu Forums.

This is just typical stupid Canonical thinking (0)

Master of Transhuman (597628) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593341)

"The decision was made despite the fact that Compiz still has some significant issues relating to drivers and Xorg."

Not to mention that many people who might want to run the latest Ubuntu simply don't have video cards or PCs with the horsepower to run this.

It's just typical stupid geek thinking. For a distro which is supposed to be for new users of Linux, load it up with crap that is guaranteed to blow the install or first boot for a new user.

Utterly moronic.

Re:This is just typical stupid Canonical thinking (5, Informative)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593789)

Compiz disables automatically in computers that doesn't have enought horsepower to run it.

Re:This is just typical stupid Canonical thinking (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593797)

Not to mention that many people who might want to run the latest Ubuntu simply don't have video cards or PCs with the horsepower to run this.

Say what? Who doesn't have even a basic 3D accelerator, these days? I mean, sure, Ubuntu *could* tailor their distro to the few people out there still running Mach64 cards, but why would they bother?

Stability Now (3, Insightful)

keithjr (1091829) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593363)

Depending on how stable all related drivers and devices are by the time Gutsy rolls out, this may very well be the worst thing that could happen to Ubuntu since that bad Xorg update last year.

Ubuntu is cherished by new-to-linux users as being zero-configuration and extremely hardware-compatible. Now they are introducing features which may fail to work with certain hardware. Why on earth would they do this?!

Compositing not ready? (1)

Graham J - XVI (1076671) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593397)

"Intel are working on the basis that composited desktops won't be ready for rolling out until EXA is stable enough anyway, so it's not a concern"

ummm OSX has had a composited desktop for years. Seems pretty ready to me.

compiz has potential (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593441)

That's certainly interesting. Best of luck. The comments are probably going to be full of Compiz bashing. But speaking as a user who prefers a pretty toned-down windows manager on my laptop (xfce, but doing most "stuff" (networking, package managing etc.) in the shell, anyway), I'm running Compiz on my desktop computer (mac mini, Debian stable, Gnome, and Compiz): Sure, there's a lot of useless (but pretty :) iKandy, but also some really nice features: for instance, the mouse's scroll wheel is suddenly useful for a lot of things (shading windows, switching virtual desktops etc.), you've got a useful expose-like feature which displays all windows on all desktops (in such a fashion that you can easily see what's going on in them, close them, bring them to focus etc.), windows can be thumbnailed in a way that makes functions like alt-tab suddenly even informative (you can use alt-tab just to browse the contents of open windows), etc. I've always kind of felt uneasy about the whole "desktop" thing (I prefer(red) keyboard shortcuts), but with Compiz, it suddenly makes sense to have a desktop.

Besides, it runs very smoothly on a mac mini with only open graphic drivers. My desktop feels at least as responsive, and certainly more economic, with Compiz than without (lets say I grab a window and shake it about on the desktop, just to see what happens; in Nautilus, CPU spikes and the window looks like shit, in Compiz, the contents are nicely rendered, and CPU stays at 0%, where it's supposed to be). I've experienced maybe one or two hiccups in more than six months, in which case the wm is automatically switched to Nautilus. Unless you're running a server or using an old computer, Compiz is worth a look.

Why is it Intel's problem? (2, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#20593543)

They have released the docs for their GPU. I have been told time and time again on Slashdot that all that has to happen is to document your hardware and a legion of FOSS programmers will write a better driver than you could.
So why does Intel need to address anything?

Oh . . . joy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20593565)

I can see installing that being ever so fun on my laptop with its ever so wonderful ATI graphics card.
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