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iPhone Likely Set to Launch in the UK Next Week

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the leaving-the-brits-in-the-cold dept.

Communications 127

An anonymous reader writes "According to CNet, the iPhone is likely to be launched in the UK next Tuesday. 'Yesterday we were invited to an Apple press conference to take place next Tuesday — and we think it's most likely going to be the UK iPhone launch. Apple, as always, is keeping tight-lipped but there are several clues that point in the iPhone's direction'. No word yet on a UK operator, pricing or whether or not it will have 3G."

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127 comments

Really? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20614519)

After so much bad press and customer complaints, I would've expected Apple to have learned a lesson.

Guess not.

I don't think no 3G is really a problem (4, Interesting)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614529)

You can get a 3G plan (with data card) for your laptop for 10gbp/month here which is a bit more convenient than hooking up a cell phone.

I use my N95 as a modem (it's faster than my home DSL! 10gb/mo transfer for $25) as well as streaming BBC radio (the on demand service) over the internet direct to the phone. However most people are not geeks and don't use the software toys that come with the handset.

However they will have problems if they think they can charge for ring tones here (especially 2gbp/4usd each, which would be 2* the iTunes price as per the US). Unlike the US devices are *much less* locked down in the UK - USB mass storage mode is enabled by default and a cable comes in the box etc. This is true even of many sub $100 cheap phones. While people aren't geeks this doesn't extend to copying on/off ring tones where suddenly the most undereducated yob seems to acquire the technical skills of an IT expert. It must be something to do with motivation.

Re:I don't think no 3G is really a problem (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614535)

You can get a 3G plan (with data card) for your laptop for 10gbp/month here which is a bit more convenient than hooking up a cell phone.
Yes, what could be more convenient than carrying a laptop around in your pocket all day.

Re:I don't think no 3G is really a problem (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20614589)

Yes, what could be more convenient than carrying a laptop around in your pocket all day.
Typing on keys the size of pencil erasers?

Re:I don't think no 3G is really a problem (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20614655)

Selling a device like the iPhone in a market like Europe without 3G support is destined to failure. 3G is a much bigger deal in the UK than in the US.

2G iPhone also has problems with Euro telcos (2, Interesting)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614929)

Selling a device like the iPhone in a market like Europe without 3G support is destined to failure. 3G is a much bigger deal in the UK than in the US.
That's true from a consumer point-of-view. However, a 2G iPhone would also have problems with the network operators here. Even if it were able to provide a near-3G experience (*), they have invested heavily in 3G and would be unlikely to want to subsidise a phone that goes against this grain.

The iPhone being a bit more expensive than its rivals may not be a major handicap in itself- after all, the iPod shows that people are willing to pay a bit extra for Apple's UI design and fashionability. However, the difference in price between an unsubsidised iPhone and a subsidised rival (which was probably already cheaper to begin with) probably *would* be a major problem.

Here's my original comment with more detail [slashdot.org] (please note that when I posted it I was unaware that Apple *did* intend to eventually launch a 3G iPhone, but the point I make is still relevant in this context).

(*) Using "2.75G" EDGE as they do in the US. I don't know if EDGE is used in Europe, but we certainly have "2.5G" (GPRS) here.

Re:I don't think no 3G is really a problem (1)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20619565)

Selling a device like the iPhone in a market like Europe without 3G support is destined to failure.
What makes you think that the Euro iPhone won't be 3G? When Jobs made the public announcement in front of thousands of developers early this year he very specifically stated that the Europen version would be 3G. Do you have some information to the contrary?

Leaked German launch ad? (1)

killbill! (154539) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618379)

There was a rumor a week ago about a leaked ad for the German launch. Does anyone know if it was confirmed or (convincingly) debunked? By the way, the ad claimed November 12 launch AND 3G!

http://files.macbidouille.com/news/200709/iphone_release_ger1.jpg [macbidouille.com]

Re:I don't think no 3G is really a problem (3, Informative)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618649)

I think it's fair to say that if Apple don't add 3G, then the iPhone will be dead in the water over here in the UK. It's pretty poor in comparison to most current phones here (as the parent mentioned, we don't have too many restrictions on the phones here; due to more competition between companies I guess) It's got a pretty poor still camera, no video, no replacable battery, and if there's no way to move files - like games, ringtones etc - on and off it via USB/Bluetooth, then it's not going to have much of an audience beyond the wide eyed "oh shiny!" gumbies that seem to buy Apple kit.

Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20614553)

In the middle of the night, in the middle of the night iPhone your name...

Anyway, Mac OS X is going completely closed source - 10.4.9 [apple.com] was the last open sourced release of the base kernel/BSD toolset. InputManager plugins - i.e. the technology underlying just about every Safari plugin - have been disabled as a "security risk" in Leopard, even though any application installed as a regular executable is able to cause as much mischief. Apple's iPhone has no official SDK support, the iPods have disabled video out unless you're using an official Apple dock, and a hash in the music library on the player means 3rd party clients can't sync properly with the new iPods.

As such, although the iPhone appeals to my desire for Apple's approach toward usability, its increasingly Microsoft-like lockin puts me off investing in any new Apple hardware or software. Come on, Apple, compete on merit, not on artificial restrictions!

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614601)

The removal of Inputmanager plugins seems like a good idea. What little OS X malware there has been seems to feature them more often than not. But I'm with you that the closed nature of the iPhone stinks.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615311)

The removal of Inputmanager plugins seems like a good idea. What little OS X malware there has been seems to feature them more often than not.

When malware already has sufficient privileges to do whatever a local user can, it can achieve what it's doing with or without a published API. Alternatives might include preloading your own libraries to modify application behaviour, or adding a wrapper executable.

It's like Gibson's argument that winsock became insecure when raw sockets support was introduced, as if one should trust whatever claims to come from a machine across the Internet merely by asking nicely for all operating systems to never set the evil bit.

captcha: condom. Lol. Because security is achieved through a layer of protection, not just by turning the lights off ;-).

Well said, anonymous one... (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615669)

Obviously I agree with you. Why not put your name on such a well thought out post?

Where do you get that "statistic"? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615635)

What little OS X malware there has been seems to feature them more often than not.

What OS X malware are you talking about?

There's been one OS X malware release in the wild, and that was a social engineering attack over AIM. The only protection against social engineering exploits is user education. You can't solve them through hardening the OS or applications (though you CAN avoid them by not training people to answer affirmatively to routine security dialogs by having as many of them as Microsoft does. Alas Apple has started down the same slippery slope.

The biggest categories of vulnerabilities exposed in OS X so far are buffer overflows (which everyone is subject to) and attacks through LaunchServices, half of them using Safari's daft 'Open "Safe" files' option. These are also two of the three biggest categories of vulnerabilities in Windows (the third, and probably bigger than either, is ActiveX embedding in the HTML control). InputManager plugins don't even rate.

If Apple was concerned with security, they would:

* Remove 'Open "safe" files after downloading' and improve the Safari download manager to force attackers to use social engineering to get people to launch attacks on secondary applications for them.

* Provide an API for applications to register as "safe applications" for web browsers and other applications that display untrusted documents. Applications opening URIs, downloaded documents, and viewers would check in *that* database instead of the standard LaunchServices database.

Microsoft needs to take these actions, too. I don't think any UNIX desktops provide the APIs that Windows and Mac browsers use to allow these attacks... apps have to explicitly add themselves to the browser's own MIME and extensions registry. If they do, they need to take the same kind of actions.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (3, Insightful)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614649)

Merit is in the eye of the beholder.

The artificial restrictions are a definite merit as far as shareholder value and suitability for media from the perspective of the MAFIAA is concerned. Most MAFIAA members are making funny noises about going elsewhere with their wares. So, I would expect Apple to show itself as even more compliant and more determined to deliver obscene market models. They want the MAFIAA members back onboard and they do not care about the consumer in the slightest.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615159)

Merit is in the eye of the beholder.

I was referring to merit in the eyes of the consumer. Any successful publicly traded company has pleasing its shareholders as an aim, but there are more ways to do this than simply earning more custom - you can also make it harder for existing customers to leave you.

Most MAFIAA members are making funny noises about going elsewhere with their wares.

Precisely, and Apple locking iPod to iTunes is nothing to do with pleasing the MPAA - it's an act of self-preservation in the knowledge that, indeed, labels are thinking about going elsewhere. If they did go elsewhere, labels would prefer that you could use any online music service to buy their noise and put it on your iPod - so restricting an iPod to using iTunes is ultimately harmful to the MPAA. (As for pirates, yarh, they can still add DRM-free tunes to iTunes.)

I'm guessing Apple's planning went something like: competing music/video sellers will over time integrate their store with the iPod. We'll make this difficult. This will mean more people stick to iTunes. We can then argue our statistics to record labels as demonstrating that end users prefer iTunes, so they're less likely to leave us.

It's legitimate but fairly lame as business practice goes. If it were merely a problem of "not supporting alternative platforms", the hash could be employed as part of a reference to supply when calling technical support to confirm you're only using Apple software; but no, it's specifically used to disable functionality. That is weak.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615393)

The artificial restrictions are a definite merit as far as shareholder value and suitability for media from the perspective of the MAFIAA is concerned.

It's ironic that Apple should buy this unsubstantiated ranting by Big Media, though, considering that they are the single most successful example of doing something Big Media basically claimed couldn't be done for years: making a lot of money by selling legal downloads cheaply.

Most MAFIAA members are making funny noises about going elsewhere with their wares.

The MAFIAA have been making funny noises about a lot of things for a long time. But realistically, Apple should be their best friend right now, and they should be aggressively promoting similar services as a new distribution channel. Their luck with the courts is going to run out, sooner rather than later I suspect. Who knows, it could even backfire spectacularly if someone finds a legal hole that allows all the people coerced into unreasonably expensive settlements to sue. Their luck with DRM ran out a long time ago, and they all know it but can't admit it. Before long, possibly as a direct result of concerns with iPods and the like and the negative PR surrounding Vista, hardware and software companies are going to view DRM as the same kind of liability that informed customers already do. And the RIAA and their international counterparts just need to realise that in an age of on-line downloads, the filler-filled album is dead. It might be their favourite cash cow, but it was always screwing the market, and sooner or later, markets who are being screwed find alternatives.

Bottom line: Apple are in at least as powerful a bargaining position as Big Media. If Big Media threaten to pull out en masse then there are clear anti-competitive concerns. If Big Media companies are forced to compete as they should be, then those who continue to do business with Apple and those like them will surely come out on top pretty quickly. Either way, it's in their interests to work with companies like Apple, not against them.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20616777)

Merit is in the eye of the shareholder, I would say

Why does ANY Linux user have an iPod or iPhone? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615529)

Mac OS X is going completely closed source - 10.4.9 was the last open sourced release of the base kernel/BSD toolset

That's what people were saying the last time Apple was slow getting an update out, during the Tiger release.

If Apple doesn't support InputManager plugins, Unsanity or someone will hack them back in. Apple can't stop that because OS X is not an embedded platform, it's a general purpose operating system, based on an open systems platform, with powerful debugging tools. Unless they completely redesign it from the kernel on up along the lines of Vista that's not going to change.

But none of that applies to the iPhone/iPod!

Apple's embedded devices have NEVER been either open source or open systems. Why on earth are you buying an iPod or an iPhone if you care about that kind of thing?

Re:Why does ANY Linux user have an iPod or iPhone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615697)

"Mac OS X is going completely closed source"... That's what people were saying the last time Apple was slow getting an update out, during the Tiger release.

Since that time
  1. the OpenDarwin project has been shut downm, and macosforge has seen no posts since November 2006;
  2. there are no longer official build instructions, so it is necessary to search for forum posts to find out about darwinbuild;
  3. various kernel interfaces have been set up to accommodate hooks that might previously have involved modifying the source (although this is a good idea whether source is open or closed, of course);
  4. requests on the darwin mailing list have been responded with "it's ready when it's ready" (although afaict looking now, the list archives for August have some of the posts complaining about this removed entirely, but I might not be looking hard enough);
  5. requests to the opensource.apple.com support addresses are ignored, including requests to make available various packages for earlier versions that are listed but lead to 404s.

A delay, as around the time of the initial Tiger Intel release, is not the same as a complete dismantling of support structure.

If Apple doesn't support InputManager plugins, Unsanity or someone will hack them back in. Apple can't stop that because...

Yes, and if Apple didn't release an operating system at all, people could compile Linux for the Intel+EFI32 platform. The point is that it's nicer as far as developer productivity and uniform user experience goes to be able to use published APIs than to have to write your own custom hack.

Apple's embedded devices have NEVER been either open source or open systems. Why on earth are you buying an iPod or an iPhone if you care about that kind of thing?

iPods play MP3, which while not open is almost as-good-as; the later versions play MPEG and display JPEG; they support the USB mass storage class; iPhone's Safari browses the web by implementing an HTTP client and HTML renderer; etc etc. To this extent, they are open systems (though I know the term "open" has been bastardised somewhat by the more zealous folk of the free software movement). It's not a case of "well, we never claimed to be open and we're leaving the standard behind to improve your experience", rather "we feel like restricting your choice".

I never implied I was "buying an iPhone"; I'm illustrating what Apple would have to do in order to gain this geek's appreciation and custom. I like what Apple create, but don't appreciate their stubborn belief that users (or external developers) can't make choices that might improve the product's enjoyment.

Re:Why does ANY Linux user have an iPod or iPhone? (2, Insightful)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616075)

the OpenDarwin project has been shut down

That was not Apple's decision, and they have continued releasing Darwin updates since then.

macosforge has seen no posts since November 2006

I know, and it's annoying that this seems to have been a PR response to the last time this came up... but on the other hand it may have been a matter of testing the waters. Remember, that means nothing from Apple *and* nothing from the rest of the open source community either. If they were testing to see if the FOSS community would respond in kind, well, I think that's failed.

requests on the darwin mailing list have been responded with "it's ready when it's ready"

If this continues long after Leopard is out I'll be complaining too, but Leopard is a big push-up for them ... both because of the iPhone and because of the problems exposed in developer releases. Just like the last time this happened. Frankly, I was honestly surprised to see them put up ANY Intel releases at all, I had expected them to quietly drop the open source effort then given the obvious advantage it gave to people porting OS X to non-apple platforms.

A delay, as around the time of the initial Tiger Intel release, is not the same as a complete dismantling of support structure.

The only part of the support structure that was both under Apple's control and was around back then that you've indicated is missing are the build instructions. Opendarwin was not Apple's, and macosforge came out after the LAST brouhaha.

By all means yell at Apple if things don't improve after the Leopard release. But while they're not keeping up with your expectations they're still doing about as much as they've ever done.

The point is that it's nicer as far as developer productivity and uniform user experience goes to be able to use published APIs than to have to write your own custom hack.

I'm not talking about a new API. I'm talking about maintaining an API that Apple has removed, like Unsanity did with Menu Extra Enabler. Unsanity could release an Input Manager Enabler that maintained the same API the same way. I wold be surprised if they didn't.

iPods play MP3, which while not open is almost as-good-as

MP3 is an open format, with patent encumbrances, yes. But then AAC is an open format as well - it's just MP4 audio. The only non-open music format on the iPod is Fairplay. But that's not what I'm talking about.

The iPod plays open format music, but you can't put that music on it using an open systems interface, and it doesn't have an open API. THAT is why it's not an open device. For a Linux user, it's not open in any way that matters if you actually want to use it as a music player. Even if you can get in through a backdoor that backdoor depends on undocumented features so it can be closed anytime without warning.

I never implied I was "buying an iPhone";

This is a general question, though. I didn't ask "why are you buying...", I asked why ANY Linux user would buy any iPod or the iPhone. For the Linux user they're clearly a really bad choice of device, and yet many have obviously done so despite Apple repeatedly demonstrating that they consider these devices to be appliances and that they have no intention of supporting any third party music software in any way.

I'm illustrating what Apple would have to do in order to gain this geek's appreciation and custom.

Apple has many geek's appreciation and custom. Apple even has many Linux Geek's custom! My question is why they've got Linux geeks appreciation and custom. It's like people buying Mac desktops and notebooks to run Linux on. Apple's hardware isn't anything to get excited about. It's got lousy ergonomics and its design is all about style... not functionality. If you want a Linux notebook the Thinkpad is a far better choice.

I like what Apple create

Why? The only thing that Apple has created that I particularly like is OS X. Yes, I'm glad that *if* Apple really does go to the dark side I'll be able to run regular UNIX on my Macbook, but I sure as hell wouldn't have it if I wasn't going to run OS X, and I suspect that if that happens I'll probably sell it on eBay and buy a used Thinkpad instead.

Re:Why does ANY Linux user have an iPod or iPhone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20616595)

OpenDarwin project has been shut down: that was not Apple's decision

It was set up with the help of Apple, and it could have been Apple's decision to save what was one of the first and most well-known repositories of open source OS X development.

macosforge: If they were testing to see if the FOSS community would respond in kind, well, I think that's failed.

Yeah, I figured, as you, that it was a combination rushed attempt to save face and way of monitoring whether OSS geeks would rejoice and begin contributing or merely shrug and move on to some other cause. But two months of occasional posts followed by complete silence was, as far as I saw it, the outward representation of finally taking the last guy tasked with being the Open Source support representative and moving him onto other jobs.

iPod: For a Linux user, it's not open in any way that matters if you actually want to use it as a music player.

I was trying to illustrate that a lot of the "hard bits" in iPod and iPhone are based on open or quasi-open technologies - MP3, USB mass storage, etc. - so it's open in many ways that matter, particularly for implementation of 3rd party support software. It's been par for the course for Linux support to require some final hurdle, in this case reverse engineering the music database. I acknowledge that this doesn't make the device completely open, but it's a far cry from intentionally making your product fail when used with Unapproved Accessories[tm].

Even if you can get in through a backdoor that backdoor depends on undocumented features so it can be closed anytime without warning.

In general, this applies to an organisation that begins by entirely adhering to standards too - they could suddenly decide all updates from today rely on non-standard extensions unless they've made some sort of promise to the contrary at the time of sale *very rare*. Even if they'd released the source to iPod and to iTunes, they're only an update away from closing the source and changing any implemented protocols, well-known or otherwise (recalling the Darwin discussion).

The only thing that Apple has created that I particularly like is OS X.

I think that's a big factor in the answer to your, "Why do geeks like Apple?" More conjectures: geeks like shiny, and I'm told frequently by fellow geeks that Apple hardware looks sexy (hell, I think my VAX 4000-500A looks sexy, but that's just me ;-). Apple do put effort into UI design, and geeks being in general bad UI designers they think Apple must have some sort of magic touch - if geeks were auto manufacturers, say, then it would be second nature for them to recognise that a car with a bad UI would cause a death, and UI design wouldn't be such an admired novelty. There's also the sense of clique membership that owning an Apple device seems to bring some people - and that "I'm part of the elite" feeling seems quite strong among some developers. There's the hero factor - many programmers are "lone rangers" rather than part of a close-knit social circle; if they have someone to look up to it'll be a charismatic stranger, not one in their community, and SJ fills this role perfectly.

As for why I like Apples: primarily, it's that I like OS X - specifically, I like the ObjC frameworks that came from NeXT (I'm a sucker for Smalltalk too ;-) and I appreciate a platform that tries to be completely GUI-accessible while incorporating a native Unix subsystem (succssive Linux+X offerings still make me feel that the UI was an afterthought). IOKit is a nice concept, albeit imperfectly incarnated. In summary, I like an open, hackable but well-integrated system. I'm not sure I have warmed much to certain Apple frontend features such as the Dock. The OS designer in me appreciates a mainstream machine that actually implements EFI, though they could try harder than 1.1, 32-bit, no shell in firmware.

Anyway, thanks for the reasoned replies.

Re:Why does ANY Linux user have an iPod or iPhone? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618803)

It's been par for the course for Linux support to require some final hurdle, in this case reverse engineering the music database.

Yeh, and it's been par for the course for Linux support of a product to require a completely new effort for each version of some product. I remember when 3COM ethernet support just started getting good, and 3COM kept screwing with the drivers buy shipping multiple different chipsets under the same model name. Sometimes these hurdles just keep coming back.

When that hurdle is ALSO a hurdle that the company's using to keep competitors (like Real) out of their pants, then you gotta expect it's going to get moved on you.

In general, this applies to an organisation that begins by entirely adhering to standards too - they could suddenly decide all updates from today rely on non-standard extensions unless they've made some sort of promise to the contrary at the time of sale *very rare*.

I think we're talking about different things here. I'm not just talking about *using* standards, I'm talking about *supporting* them.

I'm talking about the commitment a company has to make to maintaining compatibility with published APIs. Apple has a reputation for breaking APIs when they think they need to, to move forward, but even they very rarely drop an API (if it's an open systems API) or even make a major change in it (if it's a proprietary one) without months of lead time, and if it's a major API they'll keep it alive for years. When they even look like they're not following this principle, they get roasted.

And they have major customers and developers who REALLY drag their feet on catching up with API changes. They came up with a timeframe for abandoning the classic Mac OS API in 1997 and Adobe kicked and bucked and they ended up dropping all their plans for Rhapsody and going back to the drawing board, gave classic Mac OS a new lease on life with carbon and a whole major release that they hadn't expected to need, which meant that a practical Mac OS X didn't come out until 2002 with Jaguar. Then with the Intel shift Adobe was late to the party again.

And Adobe isn't weird, they're just more aggressive about it.

So, if Apple had *published* an API for loading music onto the iPod, or officially supported some third open standard for doing so, then they would have to maintain that API for a while. they would have to announce when they were going to quit supporting the open API, or when they were going to quit supporting applications using their published API.

Yes, they really would. Because it would have an effect on people who weren't going into the dance by printing up their own tickets.

But since they didn't, it doesn't matter... the only customer of that API is Apple.

So they could decide that the iPod was going to partition the flash into a UMASS file system and a fixed size sqlite database, with the songs stored in that database, and suing HTTPS with a certificate hidden in iTunes to install songs into it. Since they don't support UMASS for loading music into the iPod, they could do that.

On the other hand, you can bet that the iPod won't suddenly require that your MPs3 be branded by Apple to play on the iPod, because that's an open standard the iPod actually supports, and people would scream from Seattle, WA to Washington, DC about it.

I like OS X - specifically, I like the ObjC frameworks that came from NeXT (I'm a sucker for Smalltalk too ;-)

How do you feel about GNUstep?

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (1)

yabos (719499) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615593)

Hey dummy, we're only at 10.4.10, one point release past the latest kernel source. You don't even know how much the kernel changed during that time anyways. I think this is good that they keep the source one point behind because then the assholes who pirate OS X and run it on their PCs with a hacked kernel are always behind a true Mac.
Apple has said it's going to keep releasing the source so STFU about stuff you don't know about.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20616957)

More to the point, Apple has never released sources for the kernel until an OS ships, so expecting Leopard kernel sources is just silly fantasy-land dreaming.

The 10.4.10 question is best left to somebody who has to deal with this on a daily basis, but my guess is they're too busy working on stuff for Leopard right now. After the Intel transition, people were concerned because they released everything but the kernel bits. They haven't even released the GPLed sources yet for 10.4.10, and you know they're going to do that. Unless and until you see half of the sources posted. it is reasonable to assume that the reason for the delay is not Mac OS X "going closed source". That's troll talk.

Re:Oh, Steve Jobs, your lock-in turns me off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20618861)

my guess is they're too busy working on stuff for Leopard right now... They haven't even released the GPLed sources yet for 10.4.10

Uh wait.. are you saying Apple has been violating the GPL for the last 3 months? When I got the 10.4.10 update I got no indication of how to obtain their GPL-licensed source nor, by your account, is the source available for download. I assumed it was all BSD in the base OS, with GPL'd source for developer tools being available for separate download.

You basically confirm what the OP said, point out it's even worse than they explain, then release them from their licensing obligations because "they're too busy working on stuff"? Can someone with more knowledge than me confirm whether Apple really is using GPL'd products at versions that it's not offering the source for?

UK pricing (5, Insightful)

Dr. Stavros (808432) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614577)

No word yet on a UK pricing

For a good first estimate, simply take the US price, and change the $ to a £ symbol.

In the U.K., we're well accustomed to paying an awful lot more for tech goodies than do Americans. We'll complain a lot, but only to each other (or like me, on Slashdot), and nothing will get done about it.

Re:UK pricing (3, Informative)

Indecision Bob (52021) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614701)

Indeed. At the time of writing:

iPod Touch
8Gb - $299 (~= £150) - £199
16Gb - $399 (~= £200) - £269

The US iPhone is the same price as the 16gb iTouch, so I imagine that's the price it'll be over here.

Re:UK pricing (2, Interesting)

dotnetatemybaby (948280) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614739)

Do those US prices include an equivalent of VAT?

At the UK rate of 17.5% the difference in prices isn't quite as large:

  • 8Gb - $299 (~= £150 + 17.5% ~= £175) - £199
  • 16Gb - $399 (~= £200 + 17.5% ~= £235) - £269

Re:UK pricing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20614793)

No, US prices are quoted without sales tax, as it varies from state to state.

When I bought a Mac Mini recently, I determined that after all the relevant taxes, it only cost about £20 more to buy in the UK than to get a friend who was travelling to the States to pick one up for me. More expensive? Sure. Do I care? Fuck no, £20 is peanuts. Maybe if I was a pauper, but in that case I wouldn't be buying luxury brand stuff in the first place, would I?

Another reason EU prices are more expensive (2, Interesting)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614977)

This is something that always bugs me. People quote US prices without realising that they *don't include sales tax*; so they're never as cheap as they appear. Even if an American in a given state had to pay bugger all sales tax, you still can't use that as a reason to attack the company selling in Britain- they're not the ones who get the money, after all!

Another justification for goods being *slightly* more expensive in the EU is that we have stronger consumer guarantee laws. In the US, Playstations and the like regularly come with 90 day guarantees, and I've heard of *brand new* laptops coming with only 30 days. Whilst I'm not 100% sure what EU laws guarantee (*), it's almost certain that anything under a year would be thrown out of court. This means more money on returns and such (or alternately on higher build and quality control, again increasing cost).

Whether this accounts for the remainder of the price difference is questionable, but it should certainly be taken into account.

(*) It's not a flat 3 or 5 years as some people assume- that's the upper limit on most claims AFAIK.

Re:Another reason EU prices are more expensive (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614989)

Oh, and I almost forgot about the waste disposal directive [slashdot.org] (thanks, Arivanov).

Re:Another reason EU prices are more expensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20617021)

This is something that always bugs me. People quote US prices without realising that they *don't include sales tax*; so they're never as cheap as they appear.

To be fair sales tax varies from state to state. If you buy it in New York it's 8.25%, but in Oregon or New Hampshire there is no sales tax at all.

Another justification for goods being *slightly* more expensive in the EU is that we have stronger consumer guarantee laws. In the US, Playstations and the like regularly come with 90 day guarantees, and I've heard of *brand new* laptops coming with only 30 days. Whilst I'm not 100% sure what EU laws guarantee (*), it's almost certain that anything under a year would be thrown out of court. This means more money on returns and such (or alternately on higher build and quality control, again increasing cost).


Uh. The Playstation 3 has a 1 year warranty in the U.S.. Most brand name laptops are the same. Yes, there are some with 90-day warranties but they tend to be on the low-end, special deals or off-brand. Maybe you're thinking of store return policies?

Either way, that doesn't really justify a higher price.

Re:Another reason EU prices are more expensive (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617355)

To be fair sales tax varies from state to state. If you buy it in New York it's 8.25%, but in Oregon or New Hampshire there is no sales tax at all.
What I said wasn't an attack on the US system at all; it was simply pointing out that US customers *might* have to pay substantial sales tax- and that even if they didn't, you couldn't criticise the companies themselves for having to charge VAT in the UK (for example). It's not like they get to keep the VAT, or even have any say in the matter.

Uh. The Playstation 3 has a 1 year warranty in the U.S.. Most brand name laptops are the same. Yes, there are some with 90-day warranties but they tend to be on the low-end, special deals or off-brand. Maybe you're thinking of store return policies?
Perhaps the PS3 does; frankly, I'd consider it risible if something that expensive didn't. I was thinking of the PS2 or PS1 (though I forget which it was). No, I'm not thinking of store return policies either.

Re:Another reason EU prices are more expensive (1)

pafrusurewa (524731) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617609)

Whilst I'm not 100% sure what EU laws guarantee (*), it's almost certain that anything under a year would be thrown out of court
Don't know about Britain specifically but generally in the EU there is an automatic two-year warranty for most products. The vendor (or manufacturer) doesn't have to offer any kind of warranty specifically, it's all automatic. During the first year any defects are assumed to be manufacturing faults and the vendor has to prove otherwise, after that you have to prove that the product was in fact faulty when you bought it (which is, of course, almost impossible most of the time).

The vendor or manufacturer can offer additional warranties, up to 20 years where I live (so-called "life-long" warranties have been deemed unrealistic by the courts and now default to 20 years).

Re:UK pricing (2, Insightful)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614807)

Add VAT to 150 and you have 150*1.175=176.25
Add further 10-15 pounds for compliance with the EU Electronic Waste disposal directive and you are more or less there. If it has radio (I do not know the spec) there is an extra levy for EU which will put it bang on the 199 mark.
This is actually much better than the usual 1USD=1GBP price conversion practised by most US companies.

VAT accounts for part of the difference, no? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615563)

iPod US price does not include sales tax.

iPod UK price surely includes 17.5% VAT.

£150 + 17.5% = £176.25 (13% difference)
£200 + 17.5% = £235.00 (11% difference)

Part being the key term (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616029)

As you've noted, VAT is 17.5%, all too often us Brits get charged 50% - 100% more for some items over US prices, with no valid excuse other than simply ripping us off.

It's not going to change though because it also benefits the goverment far too much in that if the consumers are being ripped off, there's an even bigger amount for them to scrounge as tax to make up for all the shite they waste our already plentiful taxes on. Having worked for the goverment, I'm simply sickened by the billions of pounds that are wasted on incompetence, ignorance and stupidity every single year.

Re:Part being the key term (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618569)

Having worked for the goverment, I'm simply sickened by the billions of pounds that are wasted on incompetence, ignorance and stupidity every single year.

I've been a Windows system admin, so I can sympathize.

Re:UK pricing - dont be so sure (1)

T0wner (552792) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615771)

With the phone market being more competitive and generally more price sensitive in the UK, the question remains will the iphone make a dent. Handsets have a life time here of a year or less and we're very used to getting the newest handsets for free or very little. The hype here is still very high so its an interesting situation. Until the iphone the £200 handesets are all smart phones/ PDA's targeted at the business user / early adopters.

The 3G point is very overblown. The market penetration is still not very high in the UK, and even those with 3G capable sets see it as mostly novelty. The kind of demo graph the iphone is targeted at eg. the ipod market 10-25 is not the same as the 3G market.

Much worse for me (1)

MK_CSGuy (953563) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617615)

For a good first estimate, simply take the US price, and change the $ to a £ symbol.

In Israel, you take the US price, and change the $ to a £ symbol, and only THEN you convert it to sheqels :P

What about Canada? (2, Insightful)

ironcanuk (1022683) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614639)

Congratulations to the UK. What about us poor Canadians? I haven't even heard a rumor about when we might get our hands on one of these little gadgets.

Re:What about Canada? (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614935)

You could always buy one from the USA and unlock it with the new software unlock.

Re:What about Canada? (1)

koalapeck (1137045) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616645)

Take this for what it's worth, but a good friend of mine that works at Rogers said they're introducing it before Christmas. Personally I think it's BS, but maybe it'll happen.

Re:What about Canada? (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617347)

There are lots of rumors about the iPhone in Canada. As far as I know Rogers has officially said it's coming, but not sure exactly when. Some rumors say before Christmas, some say before next spring.

Rogers has said officially that you'll be required to buy a data plan for it. Rogers data plans are EXPENSIVE. There's a petition going around for Rogers to bring the iPhone data plan in line with the rest of North America.

One can guess though! (1, Funny)

renoX (11677) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614693)

[[whether or not it will have 3G]]

(sarcasm)Yeah, like Apple would piss off all the americans by providing a 3G iPhone to UK user first!
(/sarcasm)

*Sigh*

Would Americans actually want a 3G iPhone? (2, Interesting)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615067)

Yeah, like Apple would piss off all the americans by providing a 3G iPhone to UK user first!
What is the state of 3G in the US like anyway? From what I've heard, even 2G coverage is far from complete there (to be fair, this is partly due to the much larger area of coverage required per head of population).

I'm just guessing, but unless 3G penetration is even *close* to 2G there, it sounds like most people would have a better experience with 2G anyway.

Re:Would Americans actually want a 3G iPhone? (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616535)

This is my first "more than a phone" cellphone, my previous one had no internet browser. Just a phone and a camera. And from what I've experienced on my iPhone with a service called "Orb" that allows me to stream music over the internet from my home PC, this "2.75G" is great. I'm not downloading torrents of the latest games with it, but I can stream music (and video) just fine.

Re:One can guess though! (2)

lotsofsand (950221) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615139)

I fear Apple's going to piss off European customers by charging the same amount of euros as dollars. 399 = $554. For that extra $155 I expect 3G to be part of the deal.

Re:One can guess though! (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618419)

I fear Apple's going to piss off European customers by charging the same amount of euros as dollars.
How much is VAT? (US prices are quoted excluding VAT, which varies from state to state.) How long is the minimum warranty on new goods? (In the US, it's often 90 days.) How do the environmental and RF emissions regulations differ between the US and, say, Ireland? Into how many languages must the user interface be translated?

Re:One can guess though! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615739)

Most (all?) of the UK operators have a UMTS (3G) network with almost the same coverage as their GSM networks. I don't know of any with an EDGE network, although O2 was talking about deploying one a while back. Selling a phone in the UK with only GPRS (which the iPhone would be, since EDGE won't work anywhere) doesn't sound like it makes sense.

Re:One can guess though! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20617847)

EDGE (aka 2.75G) is available in the UK on some parts of the Orange network. O2 are also enabling it as we speak (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/14/o2_edge/ [theregister.co.uk] ) -- the rumour being in readiness for them releasing the iPhone (i.e. without 3G support).

Any chance of... (1)

footissimo (869107) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614697)

...not having all the hype again? Not that I don't appreciate just about every other article being about something with 'i' in the front of it, mind.

Re:Any chance of... (1)

kidcharles (908072) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616443)

I'm so sick of that lower-case 'i' in front of every fucking product name I see. It's enough to drive someone to iMurder.

Operator (3, Informative)

jaavaaguru (261551) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614717)

Isn't it O2?

OS/2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615095)

The iPhone runs OS/2? That's the best news I heard all year... oh, wait

Re:Operator (1)

jrothwell97 (968062) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615997)

It's meant to be, but it's not been confirmed yet. According to certain people, O2 is currently rolling out EDGE (I can't vouch for this though).

Not likely to be UMTS (2, Informative)

Echemus (49002) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614753)

According to this article [theregister.co.uk] on The Register o2 are busy upgrading their network to EDGE. The Register's suggestion that this is linked to the iPhone is a compelling one.

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614855)

There is an alternative explanation. Based on personal observations O2 and TMob are nearly up to capacity on GPRS due to the recent crackberry explosion. If you are in the morning on a UK commuter train you get nearly 90% packet loss on the downlink on GPRS. Regardless of how much they hate RIM the crackberry is the biggest sources of data revenue by far outstripping any other data product. So having the network loaded to the point where it stops working is very bad news.

AFAIK Crackberries have been doing EDGE for 2+ years now while 3G is still absent in all but the latest model (which is yet to launch actually). As a result getting the crackberry capacity to a point where the service works again is a definite must for every operator. The only practical solution for this is EDGE. I am surprised Vodafone is not doing it (their GPRS during commuting hours is even worse than O2).

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614869)

O2 and TMob - that should be O2 and Vodafone and the last BB actually does 3G (mea culpa).

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

fdobbie (226067) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618169)

Actually, the latest BB is the curve (8300) and the 8800... Neither of which do 3G. You have to go back to a slightly clunkier 7xxx series model if you want UMTS (which doesn't have any of the sleek looks of the new ones, or the GPS or media functions etc).

The Pearl doesn't have 3G either...

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

alphakappa (687189) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618389)

The CDMA version of the 8800 is the 8830 (Sprint/Verizon) and they support 1xEVDO which is 3G.

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615035)

It seems strange that the UK networks (who have invested heavily in 3G) would spend lots upgrading 2G networks to EDGE just to support a single device, even one as popular as the Blackberry. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to get RIM to develop a 3G Blackberry, or to support a 3G-enabled rival?

And the other obvious question is that if the 2G GPRS network is overloaded with Blackberry data, wouldn't it be better to "encourage" all other device makers to use 3G instead?

(Does EDGE actually provide much more capacity over standard GPRS anyway? Even if it does, is this enough to justify the cost and hassle of upgrading the old 2G network? This sounds doubly strange when you consider that the networks want people to use the shiny and lucrative 3G that they paid so much for).

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615215)

Does EDGE actually provide much more capacity over standard GPRS anyway

On average - you get 3-4 times more capacity with EDGE compared to GPRS. The investment to do this per MBit via an upgrade where applicable is only a fraction of the investment into deploying the same capacity via 3G. In addition to that if you are using dynamic channel allocation on the base station (and most operators do), deploying EDGE capacity for data frees some GSM capacity for voice.

EDGE is no replacement for 3G, but not deploying it for religious reasons ala Vodafone UK is stupid.

Re:Not likely to be UMTS (1)

jonbryce (703250) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618889)

Well Blackberries don't really need high speed bandwidth, and 3G needs a lot more battery power, so maybe EDGE is a good idea from that perspective.

Next headline in 3 weeks (5, Funny)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 6 years ago | (#20614839)

Apple announces 200 GBP price drop!

Possibly not even 3G... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20614901)

...judging by this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/14/o2_edge/ [theregister.co.uk]

I sincerely hope it's not true. Whilst Edge might work in the US market where 3G isn't really an option right now, I truly hope they don't think people will take such a step backwards for the iPhone - some networks are already offering 3.5G here. It's bad enough that it's missing features that people here in the UK expect as standard such as MMS but if it's not going to be 3G capable then I'm not sure it'll really take on amongst any group other than the Apple fanboy core.

Differences in the UK market (4, Insightful)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615023)

I have the nagging feeling that Apple will try to clone what they did in the US in the UK ignoring the differences in the market. The UK is big on all the things the iphone can't do or does in a restrictive manner. People want to download ringtones, wallpaper and games. Picture and video messaging is something people expect from expensive phones as well, the UK is big on messaging in general. As far as I know the iphone doesn't support this kind of messaging and doesn't even notify if you've received one you can't view. Other major point is the price plan. People simply won't pay £399 and have a £30+ 18 month contract. You could get a prada phone AND an N95 for that price.

Re:Differences in the UK market (1)

Gary W. Longsine (124661) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617177)

iPhone doesn't currently support picture-via-SMS messaging. Although I would like that feature, its lack doesn't seem to bother people all that much in the U.S. because SMS picture service *still* doesn't work reliably between different telcos. The messages sometimes go missing no matter what the handset is on either end. iPhone users send plenty of pictures via email which works no matter who you send it to and no matter if you are on same or different telcos. Presumably this feature could be added to iPhone via a software update. Presumably also, Apple chose not to include it precisely because it isn't yet reliable (cuts down on tech support calls).

Video messaging is also not supported on current iPhone. iPhone camera doesn't record videos, either. Presumably these features could be added via a software update, although the camera is on the wrong side (back) of the phone for the typical "Hi, Mom!" phone vids so I don't expect to see this added until future iPhone hardware updates.

Re:Differences in the UK market (1)

jonbryce (703250) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618915)

Yes. I paid £320 for an unsubsidised IPaq with no contract, and then got a £15/month sim only contract with a very reasonable amount of minutes included.

I guess HP, along with HTC and Blackberry are Apple's main competitors in this market.

Good luck with that (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615149)


hurray , i can now buy a phone that has less features (no SMS, no MMS, no video calls) than my old Nokia did in 2001

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Don_dumb (927108) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615269)


hurray , i can now buy a phone that has less features (no SMS, no MMS, no video calls) than my old Nokia did in 2001

Can someone verify this? (I'm feeling really lazy today)
If the iPhone doesn't text, it is dead in the UK. DEAD. Everyone texts here.
I can't see that Apple would make that big a mistake here, so even if the US one doesn't, I would expect the UK one to.

So if someone does know, please enlighten me.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Laglorden (87845) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615335)

I think it does SMS (barely, dreadfully slow I guess with no "real" buttons) but not MMS and video calls.

"iPhone, how quaint" or "iPhone, how Amish".

Re:Good luck with that (1)

LinuxInDallas (73952) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618547)

Actually I've found the virtual keyboard to be pretty good. I can type at a pretty good clip with it now. I wouldn't let that stop you from getting one.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

caramelcarrot (778148) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615369)

From wikipedia "Text messages are presented chronologically in a mailbox format similar to Mail, which places all text from recipients together with replies. Text messages are displayed in speech bubbles (similar to iChat) under each recipient's name." It seems capable, though I've seen a comment that it's incapable of sending a message to multiple recipients, which is a bit shit. Also, speed texting on an iphone, http://youtube.com/watch?v=dU33DfFAV9w&v2 [youtube.com]

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Zephyr14z (907494) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617627)

iPhone definitely texts. Everybody texts here too.

Re:Good luck with that (1, Flamebait)

iJed (594606) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615565)

hurray , i can now buy a phone that has less features (no SMS, no MMS, no video calls) than my old Nokia did in 2001




The iPhone does support SMS (and always has.) It also has real email (which is far more useful than MMS has ever been), a real web browser, a high-quality video player and arguably the best music player ever on a phone. It has also become very easy to install third party software [fiveforty.net] on and has a rapidly growing community of developers. Someone has even managed to implement video chat [macdaddyworld.com] !



The iPhone isn't about having a ton of features though. Its about having a phone with a UI that isn't really really shit and having the features that it does have work very well. These are the things that differentiates its from your Nokia.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Mantaman (948891) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615963)

My nokia N95 does all this plus 3G, the screen isnt as big as an Iphone but it also has a 5 mp camera with a proper lense (carl zeiss) has an unlimited download limit with my contract (ok not realy but thats how they advertise it .. you get told off if you download more than 1gb on your phone)it does vidio calls, mms, it also has google maps (download) and GPS which if you buy the addin will do voice navigation for you. For entertainment it has an MP3 player (fairly decent) FM radio and Real player for videos (ok this isnt the best thing in the world) You can also use it for a 3G modem to connect to your laptop. The OS isnt locked down (symbian 60) and you can find lot of software available to do mostly anything. It also comes with its own version of an 'office' package which does basic wordprocessing, spreadsheet and presentations, it also has a PDF viewer. These come as standard on the phone. For this i payed £60 for the phone on an 18 month contract of £35 per month. With this thing on the market (which is getting close to being a year old .. new one on the way im sure) along with other high tech phones anyone who buys an Iphone is doing it for the name/badge/title/status and IMHO is an idiot :)

Re:Good luck with that (1)

RFaulder (1016762) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616355)

The N95 is 21 mm thick, iPhone is 11.6 mm. N95 has a 5-hour GSM talk time, 3.5 CDMA. iPhone has 8 hours. N95, with 8 GB storage, is $749. With much better battery life while being an entire centimetre thinner, I choose iPhone.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Mantaman (948891) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616919)

I was commenting on UK prices .. for the Iphone to fly it HAS to compare to what is currently on the market. If you want to pay that kind of money in the US then feel free. My N95 (160mb with 2gb card) cost me £60 or $120 at current exchange rates. Do you NEED 50 days of continuous music or just a couple of hours on the way/home/at work? As for battery life I use mine for most of the day on mp3/calls etc and plug it in every night when im at home/car .. it IS a phone after all. I have found on standby without using it at all will last 2 days without charge and the occasional call. As for the size yes it isnt the smallest phone in the world but with the amount of stuff packed into it, it means i dont have to carry a PDA, Crackburry (it has N95 pop mail client or just use wifi/3g to access web mail), mp3 player, digital camera and FM radio. So for an all in one device i can live with the weight/thickness.

Re:Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20617015)

The battery life and price comparison parts I agree with... but does anyone really care how thick a phone is? Really? It's not like you can safely carry the iPhone in your pocket. You'll sit on it and break the glass. If it's hanging on your belt, does thickness really matter?

iPhone in my pocket, not just happy to see you (1)

Gary W. Longsine (124661) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617071)

Good grief. We all, us iPhone users, carry iPhone in our pockets. Get a real nit to pick.

iPhone fanboys are so ignorant. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20616127)

"The iPhone does support SMS (and always has.) It also has real email (which is far more useful than MMS has ever been)"

Yes, if you have a laptop or PC with a proper keyboard in front of you, however SMS excels over e-mail at putting together and sending quickly small messages, which is what people want on their mobile phone. Email is simply too cumbersome for a phone and 99% of europeans realise this hence why they use SMS over e-mail.

"a real web browser"

Just like just about every other mid to high range phone and every PDA that's been out in Europe for the last 5 years then? How innovative.

"a high-quality video player"

Just a shame there's no high quality camera to go with it, like say, the Nokia N95s with it's ability to film DVD quality video at 30fps. The iPhone's camera is equivalent to that of pre 2003 European mobile phone cameras.

"and arguably the best music player ever on a phone"

Arguably not also, I suppose it comes down to whether you're a biased Apple fanboy or well, not.

"It has also become very easy to install third party software [fiveforty.net] on and has a rapidly growing community of developers. Someone has even managed to implement video chat [macdaddyworld.com]!"

I'd rather be able to install applications without voiding my warranty thanks. Again, just like every mid to high range phone in Europe for the last 6 years has allowed.

"The iPhone isn't about having a ton of features though. Its about having a phone with a UI that isn't really really shit and having the features that it does have work very well. These are the things that differentiates its from your Nokia."

Yes, because Nokia's UI's are so utterly hard to use, oh wait, no they're not. Seeing as just about everyone between the age of 4 and 90 in Europe/Asia owns a mobile phone and quite happily has done and has used it for the last 5 to 10 years the current UIs are clearly not that bad, nor a barrier to using the device. You're suggest a whole paradigm shift in mobile phone useage from the existing UI's is somehow going to not confuse people who are more than happy with their existing phone's UI? Fact is the iPhone's UI is gimmicky, it looks fancy and that's about it, when it comes to it's simply not anymore usable that much is certain.

As usual, Apple's products are 99% hype, 0.5% quality and 0.5% features.

Re:iPhone fanboys are so ignorant. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20616625)

Spoken like a true troll.

I salute you!

iPhone antifanboys are so... full of themselves. (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618025)

You have a lot of valid points there, however, I can not see in any meaningful way why if you have e-mail, then you have to send HUGE pieces of text and PPS attachments.

In other words, I am the kind of person that uses e-mail and SMS the same way, in other words e-mail in no way forces you to use a keyboard and write huge essays for every message.

I'm no iPhone fanboy and I'm not defending it, but I have to answer to your point that looks to me like an ilogical rant and out of touch with reality.

"SMS excels over e-mail at putting together and sending quickly small messages"
I still don't understand why e-mail can't do the same if that's how I use e-mail everyday.

And I can write SMS in my phone using my computer's keyboard, I don't think I can do that with the iPhone. Totally offtopic detail, of course.

Re:Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20616323)

The iPhone isn't about having a ton of features though.

You are correct. It is about worshiping at the cult of apple while they fuck you in the ass with high prices.

If you want to see a well-made, well-documented smartphone, get yourself a blackberry.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Goth Biker Babe (311502) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617127)

Okay it's thicker, but it's also smaller, and although it has a smaller screen my SE K800i has all of what you list plus 3G, MMS, video calls, a 3Mp camera, a video camera, decent bluetooth with PAN, and a media player which will play iTunes+ tunes and H264 video. Okay it doesn't look as flash as the iPhone (and yes we analysed one at work which we'd bought in LA) but it was *free*.

The primary use for my phone, apart from being a phone and occasionally media player, is providing my laptop a network when I'm away from wi-fi. That's the one thing the iPhone fails abismally on.

Oh yes. I am a Mac fan. I have apple laptops and desktops, a mac mini connected to the TV and so on. But I'm not buying an iPhone in the current guise. It's just too out of date. The SE does what I need and syncs seemlessly with my macs.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

ben0207 (845105) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617735)

I agree with this. I thought long and hard about the iPhone, but ultimately it's not enough of a phone for my needs (my current phone being the k810i - a refresh of the k800). No MMS was the main kicker, as I send at least 3 picture messages a day. The only thing I wish it had was WiFi, but having such good battery life makes up for it.

Consumers face a tough choice (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615383)

I expect the UK iPhone will be as horribly overpriced as the US one - expensive (and blah) handset, expensive tariff and one specific vendor. I wonder how that will work out when you can get virtually any phone for free on most tariffs in the UK. You could save so much that you could probably buy an iPod Touch and still have a pile of money left over.

Operator is O2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615411)

The operator is O2, this has been known for months. Vodafone wouldn't touch the iPhone with a ten-foot barge pole, whether Orange or T-Mobile competed for it though I don't know. I suspect Vodafone wasn't interested for a variety of reasons including their own offerings on the non-hardware side, and that Vodafone is in so many countries that they wouldn't be happy seeing their exclusive deal on the iPhone in the UK being undercut by it being traded by their direct competitors in the rest of Europe/world.

As for the price, we'll be shafted.

LG KU 990 Viewty more innovative & versatile.. (1)

Wonderkid (541329) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615569)

Don't get me wrong, am an avid Apple fan when it comes to some of their products, but the lack of flexibility with the iPhone is causing me concern. I have played with an LG Prada, which while lacking the raw power of an iPhone or Nokia N95, for example, does more than people think and has a great GUI. And from the video on this CNET Review [cnet.co.uk] it looks like their new 3G equipped Viewty now fixes the flaws in the Prada and does even more, such as the cool slo mo video and a haptic touch screen. The iPhone exists simply as a cash cow for Apple, and it's lack of flexibility could well mean it will only ever occupy the same portion of the market as their other non-iPod hardware while most of the world will purchase devices they can tailor to their requirements with memory expansion and a more open OS. While I do not believe the Viewty has a developer friendly OS, it is equipped with 3G & HSDPA and so will prove ideal for web services that can make up for lack of any more sophisticated on board applications. I want one, and I was going to get an iPhone. Probably not any more. Tell me I'm wrong.

Re:LG KU 990 Viewty more innovative & versatil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20615617)

I'll give you 200 reasons (now in Pounds) not to get an iPhone, but it will take 2 months for our bet to be settled.
I just can't freakin' believe people let Apple get away with this crap.
If Microsoft had pulled the same stunt, Gates would have been lynched.

Re:LG KU 990 Viewty more innovative & versatil (1)

Wonderkid (541329) | more than 6 years ago | (#20615721)

Agreed. But, people have a choice. Apple are not forcing anyone to buy one, and if they upset people, they will see returns and lawsuits and change their ways. Believe it or not, the only thing I like about the iPhone is the ease of use and photo viewing as it syncs with iPhoto. But then, with the Viewty, you can take the photos on the phone and keep them there, while with the iPhone you take photos with your posh camera, upload them to your Mac or PC and then have to sync them with the iPhone! Confusing really. :-)

Re:LG KU 990 Viewty more innovative & versatil (1)

Mantaman (948891) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616959)

Not sure about the LG but the N95 has a flickr client on the phone to upload pics directly to it. Its quite handy if your out on the road and need a pic available onine. Ok you do need a flickr account first but most peeps have those anyway.

Re:LG KU 990 Viewty more innovative & versatil (1)

Wonderkid (541329) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617877)

finally, someone else who says 'peeps'! sweet! You must be Blitish like me!? Anyway, come the always on everywhere (& I mean everywhere) wireless broadband, yes, simply accessing your content remotely is the future. I for one find flickr annoying as it's trying to be cool rather than useful. it's tag system is very limiting.

Re:LG KU 990 Viewty more innovative & versatil (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617947)

Smartphones were going to eat iPods marketshare. The iPhone is the response to this. Now iPhones are the ones eating iPods marketshare, so no lose for Apple.

Selecting another smartphone or another MP3 player based on merits is simply the best choice.

WOOT (1)

Coraon (1080675) | more than 6 years ago | (#20616211)

Finally the world knows the truth, that Canada is the tortuga if the internet! So come americans, come up here and buy your drugs at discounted prices, get your gay relitives married, use our web cafes to dowload warez, its the one stop shopping trip for all that your goverment and the corps that control it wont let you do!

I am waiting for the Belgium release (2)

houghi (78078) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617011)

In Belgium locking phones is illegal. That would mean that there won't be a single operator who can get an exclusive deal. That would mean everybody would be able to buy it and use it anywhere in the world.

Also it means that the price will be the price for the phone and only for the phone.

3G not yet (1)

scolbert (1122737) | more than 6 years ago | (#20617049)

I seriously doubt Apple with do 3G first in Europe. I suspect if they did it would put a wet blanket on US sales. Some/most US buyers would wait for the 3G model. Some have suggested that they will announce 3G and also a 3G phone. That to me makes no sense, it too close to the follow on to the original iPhone and I think Apple, with its price drop, is pretty much fixed for the Christmas selling season. I would then expect a new 3G 16GB phone in January (you know, this happens all the time with electronics, right after Christmas the newer new goodies come out).
-- Sammy with iPhone [personafile.com]

iPhone this, iPhone that (1)

Iloinen Lohikrme (880747) | more than 6 years ago | (#20618335)

Argh, I just can't understand how some people can be so interested about anything concerning iPhone: I'm looking at you Slashdot editors, bloggers, telecom journalist etc.. The iPhone basically is just like the Ericsson R380s [mobile-review.com] , but with newer components. Just look at the thing, it's very much like iPhone. Actually it follows same concept as the iPhone: it's completely locked down, so no addable software, and it was designated to mainly function with the network. According to a Swed who I had a pleasure to meet in a trip in Sweden, said Ericsson at the time of the phones introduction, in 2000, said that it wasn't a phone but an terminal.

If there are any engineers from Sony-Ericsson reading my comment, please for the love of god and everything that is good, bring back the R380s with modern technology. The P-series that Sony-Ericsson introduced afterwards is just rubbish when compared to R380. The R380s had the right form factor, it just felt right. Actually when reminiscing my memories of it, I actually took it from drawer, the phone functions still, except it's OS is unfortunately corrupted with out possibility to have a master reset via phone. :-( Does somebody have an advice on how to get it reset otherwise?

PS. Actually there is one big advance that the R380 had: as a Finn having the R380 and not a Nokia phone, you got instantly more friendlier reception, "oh you have an Ericsson, your mine friend!" ;-)

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