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New iPod Checksum Cracked, Linux Supported

CmdrTaco posted more than 7 years ago | from the well-that-didn't-take-long dept.

Hardware Hacking 422

An anonymous reader writes "After 36 hours of reverse engineering, the method for producing the checksum on new iPods has been discovered." You can also get linux support working if that's what you crave for your shiny new toy.

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What's the draw? (5, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635833)

Is it the iTunes store? Is it the sound quality? Is it the looks of the device?

What makes Apple's offering any better than anyone else's?

I don't get it at all.

What I don't get more than that is the people who buy the iPod just to put Linux on it. That actually causes negative understanding.

Re:What's the draw? (5, Insightful)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635881)

It's the scrollwheel.

Face it...APPLE IS GAY!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636017)

Owjmed masdfasdf lol olololol

Re:What's the draw? (4, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635883)

What makes Apple's offering any better than anyone else's?

Integration with iTunes (not necessarily the store), such as syncing Smart Playlists, and 3rd-party accessory support that's an order of magnitude greater than for any other music player.

Re:What's the draw? (4, Insightful)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635915)

It's not actually integration with iTunes (it's the most bloated piece of crap I've seen since RealPlayer), but the fact that there is any integration at all, i.e. a database of songs you can search and sort any way you want. Plus there's a really intuitive interface to control it. If there was another company that had that I'd buy its offer, I don't like Apple's overpriced hardware.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635949)

Integration with iTunes (not necessarily the store), such as syncing Smart Playlists, and 3rd-party accessory support that's an order of magnitude greater than for any other music player.

You forgot DRM and a quick and dirty Gapless Playback solution.

If you just want to have some music playing, get an iPod.

If you want to actually listen to the music the way it was intended to be, put Rockbox on it.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

Jimithing DMB (29796) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636103)

At least on my iPod, I can get true gapless playback by simply using an encoding scheme which isn't affected by gaps. That is, either plain PCM or Apple Lossless. Sure, it's not gapless playback of MP3 or AAC but it does the job and the types of music I want to listen to gapless I also usually want to hear in their original fidelity.

For what it's worth, the older models (I previously had a 2G) would put little gaps in even when playing WAV and didn't support Apple Lossless at all. The new ones (I now have a 5G) seem to no longer have this problem presumably by simply concatenating each song without any silence gaps in the buffer. Couple that with a simple cable from SiK that gives a pure line out from the dock connector and you've got a great way of playing tunes through a good stereo without losing any fidelity compared to playing them using a CD player.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

yo_tuco (795102) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636417)

"If you want to actually listen to the music the way it was intended to be, put Rockbox on it."

From Rockbox web site:

"Rockbox is an open source firmware for mp3 players, written from scratch. It runs on a wide range of players:

Apple: iPod 3rd gen, 4th gen (grayscale and color), 5th/5.5th gen (video), iPod Mini and 1st gen iPod Nano (not the 2nd gen Nano)"


Does this mean you're currently SOL for the new releases of the iPod line?

Re:What's the draw? (1)

desenz (687520) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636527)

Yes.

Re:What's the draw? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20635897)

Simple: The click wheel is a better interface than anything else on the market. And when I'm in my car trying to choose a track, the speed and ease of the inferface is critical. Until someone invents something better, people will continue to buy iPods.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636009)

Serious question, not intended to be a Troll.

My player has a little joystick nub on it. I push it left to go back one song, right to go forward one song, up to turn up the volume, and down to turn the volume down. If I wan to navigate my playlist in a more complex manner than next/last song, I press the joystick nub in, like a button. I figured all this out in under a minute without even opening up the manual.

May I ask how the clickwheel is more obvious and user friendly than that for normal use?

Granted, having to press/hold the nub in and hold it for a few seconds to get to advanced settings was less than intuitive and I did have to open the manual for that. But that was the only time I used the manual.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

AmaDaden (794446) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636521)

But was it around when the iPod came out? From what I remember the iPod was the only decent mp3 player out there for a long time. People who were getting their first mp3 player would talk to their friends who had mp3 players and most of them just suggested iPods. At this point it's moving on momentum and the fact that they did not screw it up yet. People tend to stay with what works rather then go out and try something new. If it was not for this new UI that the iPhone/iTouch has I think the iPod would have slowly started to lose the market.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636571)

I doubt it was, but I guess my point is that the iPod isn't the only thing with a good user interface.

And the ogg/flac support on my player is nice too :-)

Re:What's the draw? (1)

JonathanBoyd (644397) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636579)

The clickwheel allows you to navigate the interface a lot faster while maintaining precision.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636019)

You have quite obviously never used a Rio Carbon or a Rio Karma...Always has had and always will have a far, far, FAR simpler and easier interface than an iPod.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636435)

I have a Karma. I have to say that I didn't use it as much as I do my Ipod. I think the Karma could have been a world beater but they did some dumb things right off the bat.
1. It had Ethernet! Brilliant but I couldn't mount it as a shared drive and I couldn't stream from it! What a waste.
2. It didn't work as a Mass storage device.
3. Lack on integration. Why didn't they open up the interface so car stereo people could interface to it.
4. ITunes was better than the interface software that came with the Karma.

I have a real love hate relationship with the Karma. They don't make them anymore so I will probably get an 80gb IPod soon.

Re:What's the draw? (4, Insightful)

pthor1231 (885423) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636477)

Both you are your parent are wrong. Neither one is definitively better than the other, for simple fact that people like different interfaces. A lot of people I work with seems to like the nub mouse on ibm laptops. I personally can't stand using it. Does this make the touchpad style of laptop control better or worse? No, it just means they are two effective methods of input that people can use, similar to the Rio / Apple issue.

Re:What's the draw? (1, Informative)

Mwongozi (176765) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635903)

It's two things, but of those two, primarily only one of them.

The iPod, if not the best sounding music player, is easily one of the best. But mostly it's the UI. It's difficult to explain why if you haven't used one for a few days, but the iPod UI, to use a cliche, just works. Other players just seem clunky and awkward by comparison.

I'm sure for many others the looks of the device play a big factor as well, but I'd still be using an iPod if it was brown.

Re:What's the draw? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20635981)

"The iPod, if not the best sounding music player, is easily one of the best" are you trying to say the iPod produces better sound quality than the majority of the other mp3 players out there? You're kidding right?

Re:What's the draw? (-1, Flamebait)

sayfawa (1099071) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636031)

The iPod, if not the best sounding music player,...

LOL

Re:What's the draw? (1)

damaki (997243) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636181)

Best sounding? The bundled earbuds are a piece of crap and, until the 5.5 ones, the ipods were not even gapless. And what about the infamous vbr skipping bug of the older ones? Sure, it has improved, and these sound great with good earbuds or a headset but it is not the. I think, the selling points were and are still the design and the UI. It's just great, easy to use, nice looking. Mp3 players had horrific UIs, these text only ugly with wacky menus, definitely not what you little sister would use.
Apple invented the usable mp3 player.

Re:What's the draw? (5, Insightful)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635909)

It has a more polished user interface and more third-party accessory support than any other player.

When shopping for an MP3 player, I considered alternatives (and in fact looked at alternatives first), and in the end went with iPod because:
1) Most of the alternatives I looked at weren't any cheaper than the iPod
2) Most of them got slammed in reviews for bad user interfaces
3) Most of them were not available in B&M stores allowing me to return it easily if I hated the UI.

In short, in the end the iPod wound up being the "safe bet", and unlike most Apple products, wasn't grossly overpriced compared to the competition. (Disclaimer: This was over a year ago, things may have changed since then.)

Re:What's the draw? (3, Informative)

nsanders (208050) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636093)

Never looked at the Sansa's huh? $50-$100 cheaper, they have a voice recorder, SD expansion (extra 2gb of space!), great accessory choices and a great product. The thing I like most is that there's no "disconnecting" with the Sansa. Just unplug it and go.

When my iPod died I got a Sansa and I love it. My 10gb Sansa (8gb + 2gb SD) cost $100 cheaper than a 4GB Nano.

Re:What's the draw? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636353)

Really? The 6 and 8 gig Sansa I've seen are going for ~50 USD more then the 4Gb Nano. And that's without the SD card.

I urge moderators to check the parents "facts" before they mod. Maybe there are cheaper ones out there but my fast research shows that the parent is spreading FUD.

Re:What's the draw? (3, Interesting)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636427)

Sansa View.
Launches October, roughly the size/shape of old Nano, 3:4 screen taking most of the face, plays most sane video formats, retains muSD slot, gains SDHC support
8GB for 150, 16GB for 200

Sansa what? (2, Informative)

penp (1072374) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636487)

I bought a 6gb Sansa (the e200 series) when they came out. I loved it. Until it broke. It turns out a lot of them have a problem with the phone jack, as it's not seated correctly, and plugging in your headphones causes stress on the jack that eventually causes one or both of the channels to go out. This is what happened to mine. I now have a 6gb USB drive that I can play music to one of my ears. People buy Ipods for a reason. They're well built, and have great sound quality (after my sansa died I borrowed my g/f's Nano for a little while, and I was surprised at how great it sounded in comparison). I have never heard of anyone complaining (with regards to the Ipod) of similar issues that come with buying cheaper players (such as cheaper quality hardware) If there's anything I'll give apple, it's that they know how to make sturdy hardware.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636517)

another sansa fan here, though i like the m200 players better, as i need something more durable (i have a tendency to forget stuff in my pockets when i do laundry), though the simple interface would get annoying for much more than 1GB of music

Re:What's the draw? (4, Informative)

walt-sjc (145127) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636105)

4) Availability of accessories.

That's huge. You can get iPod interfaces for most higher-end car stereos for example, not to mention the plethora of docks, cases, etc.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635911)

Nice UI and the fact that everything that's designed to work with an mp3 player works with an ipod.

Another way of putting that second one is "It's popular because it's so popular".

Re:What's the draw? (0, Redundant)

timster (32400) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635931)

I don't know about everyone else, but I use an iPod to personally annoy you.

And because all of the alternatives with a screen equivalent to the one on the iPhone are nearly an inch think, and I don't want to carry a purse. There's also that.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635945)

What makes Apple's offering any better than anyone else's?
It isn't that they're the best at any one thing, but it's that they manage to combine a whole lot of things together really well. Though I hate the analogy, let's look at a car. You don't pick one simply because it has the best engine, you try to get one that's put together well and scores high on all major categories: safety, handling, stability, etc.

That, and iTunes lock-in.

All in all, they're decent pieces of hardware. I finally broke down and bought myself my first iPod a couple of weeks ago (the new Nano, super-thin flash-based). My entire music collection is either ripped from old CDs or purchased via iTunes, and I wanted to start listening to my purchased stuff at work without worrying about breaking company policy by installing iTunes at work.

Other companies, like iRiver, offer a couple of superior units while others sell trash. So, I guess the draw of Apple of the other good ones is simply iTunes.

Re:What's the draw? (4, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635967)

It's compatability with 3rd party devices.

I can take an iPod plug it into a connector in my car and completely control it from my steering wheel and see the info on the stereo's display. works perfectly. I can do the same with my Crestron Whole house audio system, my alarm clock, etc...

No other mp3 player on the market can do that. NONE. Apple opened up the connector interface and had a rs232 control interface down in that connector so other devices can control it, All other mp3 makers sit in the corner curled up screaming "MINE MINE!" or are not smart enough to think about 3rd party control like that.

That is why I use it, my daughter uses it, and I reccomend the iPod to all my clients what are doing whole house automation and audio integration. Only the ipod can do advanced integration that is seamless from the car to the home to the bedroom. (even the wife if you buy a iGazim attachment)

That is why.

Re:What's the draw? (4, Funny)

Sciros (986030) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636337)

Only the ipod can do advanced integration that is seamless from the car to the home to the bedroom. (even the wife if you buy a iGazim attachment)
WHAT THE... seamless integration with the wife?... Just what exactly is an iGazim attachment and would one have to take his daughter to the doctor if she asks about getting one...

Re:What's the draw? (3, Informative)

cromar (1103585) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636529)

I think the poster was referring to the iGasm [blorge.com] .

Re:What's the draw? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636557)

Definitely; It's the 3rd party device support. Sound quality doesn't hurt, either. 30G + video/DVD is useful. Lack of MS involvement means stability and peaceful coexistence with the non-DRM world. Some people are motivated by the cool design or the interface -- not me.

I have the iPod interface for my BMW with I-drive. Although the I-drive system is routinely criticized by the automotive press, it works great with my Ipod. Instead of fumbling with the Ipod display and scroll wheel, I can use the BMW's built in scroll wheel and the display is the big LCD mounted on the top/center of the dash. This is way better than just a mini stereo auxiliary input jack.

Time has proven the Ipod to be the most open platform music player. Granted, it could be more open than it is, but it seems Apple has done a better job than most in understanding the limitations of the "walled garden" approach.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

widdma (870304) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635985)

I've tried a lot of the competition, but the iPod seems to be simplest to use. This is probably their key selling feature... that and their hype-machine.

Re:What's the draw? (5, Informative)

leuk_he (194174) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636007)

I think you do not actually want to put linux on it, i think that the issue here is that the iPod is linux supported, meaning that you can transfer music from and to your linux desktop.

Linux support is so obvious for 99 out of 100 usb mp3 player out there it is not even worth mentioning. These mp3 players just behave like a generic USB pen disk. That you need a special (circumvention?) program for a iPod is the strange issue here.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636569)

The link is about supporting an iPod on Linux, but you can, in fact, install Linux on the device. (You need Linux installed to play Doom -- not sure if that reasoning seems any more sane to the OP, though.)

Re:What's the draw? (1)

yo_tuco (795102) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636597)

"I think you do not actually want to put linux on it, i think that the issue here is that the iPod is linux supported, meaning that you can transfer music from and to your linux desktop."

From TFA:
"Note: You will need to do the process of getting the hash on your iTunesDB every time you even so much as change a song name, or upload new music or video files."

You have to apply the hack each time? It doesn't sound too convenient just yet.

Re:What's the draw? (3, Informative)

tgd (2822) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636015)

Here's a few reasons that are valid to those who don't have Macs anyway (and its a no brainer if you use other Apple products):

1) Easy connection to cars. My iPod plugs into my truck's (factory) radio, and I get all the music info on there as well as easy browsing of the music. All the factory controls work, and its hidden in the glove box.
2) Lots of 3rd party speaker/dock solutions.
3) The iPod camera adapter.

The iPod camera adapter is really a very under-reported item, I think. I recently was in Alaska and didn't want to bring my laptop with me. My iPod has about 25g of free space on it, and I burned through 2/3 of that pulling pictures each day off my two digital cameras, and was able to use it to show pictures to my family (although it'd be nice if they added RAW viewing to it).

If you use it as a stand alone player in your pocket, then you're absolutely right.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

supremebob (574732) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636035)

Exactly. Shouldn't the KDE team be putting their development efforts behind an MP3 player that's "Linux friendly", rather than help a company who's trying to screw them over by locking out their products?

Re:What's the draw? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636077)

Acceptance, insecurity, pretty much sum it up.

If you dont have an iXXX your not cool and have to sit at the nerds table for lunch.

Three words: EASE OF USE (1)

mi (197448) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636097)

That's the draw.

That, and Apple's managing to create the vast market for iPod addons. New cars come with option of being "pre-wired for iPod". You can buy an "iPod-ready" backpack. Various speaker-systems — portable and otherwise, including waterproof ones — come with iPod slots.

True, many of those accessories will work with any music player, but many would not, or not as well...

Re:What's the draw? (1)

Spirilis (3338) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636107)

For me, it's the connectivity. I have an Alpine headunit in my car and a major part of my decision to buy the ipod was the fact that they sold an interface which allows me to dock my ipod such that I can control the ipod's interface through the headunit, while charging it at the same time. I like this because it allows me to use the ipod as an external music source for the headunit, allowing me to continue using the Alpine interface which is far easier to use while driving (IMHO).

I've heard that they make headunits which allow connectivity to USB-based music players; if that's the case, then this point is moot.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636141)

What makes Apple's offering any better than anyone else's?

More broadly supported? What everyone else said. Better? Nothing. My wife has a Nano and I have a Sansa e280. Interface-wise, they're nearly identical except that my scrollwheel is an actual rotating disk instead of a touch sensor. Honestly, it basically comes down to taste and budget.

Re:What's the draw? (2, Insightful)

AmaDaden (794446) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636231)

It's not that the iPod is great it's just that it has nothing major wrong with it. I've seen a lot mp3 players that were ok but had one glaring flaw. Battery life, UI, file accessibility, storage size...etc. Plus at this point there is so much extra software and hardware for it that any other player would have to do a lot to break in to the market.

What I don't get more than that is the people who buy the iPod just to put Linux on it.
If you are referring to the story that was not the issue. The problem was that the default iPod software on the incoming generation of iPod would ignore a play list not made by iTunes software. So all Linux users (who can't use iTunes because it's not on Linux) would have been left in the dust. The headline was a bit misleading.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636309)

The biggest thing is the size. Find any competing device which has the same amount of storage as an iPod classic or iPod nano, and isn't at least 25% bigger.

Re:What's the draw? (2, Insightful)

RabidMonkey (30447) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636345)

For me, it's iTunes. I know that sounds crazy, but if you get beyond the bloat and horrible interface ...

I don't have a lot of free time to go hopping from store to store looking for CDs, and I don't listen to regular radio (CBC or bust), so I don't get exposed to a lot of new music. But, when I do have some free time, I can fire up iTunes and checkout music at home, quickly. And, if I like it, in a matter of minutes I can have the music on my desktop and iPod, for less than I would pay in a music store. Sure, theres DRM, but I don't care, I'm playing the music on my iPod. And, if I don't want to play it there, I convert to mp3, or burn it directly from iTunes.

Yeah, it's not fantastic, but I want to support artists whose music I like. Since I'm much more likely to do that in iTunes than in a music store, and I'm not going to just download their music and not have them get paid for it (however little they make off an album, it's still money in their pocket they wouldn't get if I .torrent'd it), I stick with my iPod and their stupid bloaty software that frequently uses up more memory than even memory sucking firefox or WoW.

Plus, theres the scrollwheel.

$0.02 CDN

Re:What's the draw? (4, Funny)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636379)

The white earbud wires signal to people (especially the cuter ones who can't think so good) that they can have sex with you before they notice that you're a geek with a "LiPod".

Re:What's the draw? (2, Insightful)

Zonk (troll) (1026140) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636391)

When I was looking for an MP3 player a few years ago, it had the best price/storage ratio. Everything else I looked at either only had half the storage for around $50-100 less, or was the same and cost $50-100 more. So, I got the 60gb 4th gen iPod. To this day it still works fine, in fact I'm listing to some Static-X on it at the moment. I use it most of the day, even when driving (through the line in port, I had to replace the stereo for that).

The only thing that was a disappointment with it was the headphones, which, IMHO, sound awful. So I had to spend another $20 on a decent set of portable headphones. The iPod's sound quality is decent, though I greatly prefer the M-Audio Delta 1010lt in my home computer...

I'm probably going to buy something new around May, something that's 80gb+ and ideally something that supports Vorbis. As I'm fed up with using GTKPod to manage it, ideally I'd like to be able to manage it with rsync (all of my music is properly sorted, tagged, and has the artwork embedded in it). Does anyone have a recommendation?

Re:What's the draw? (2, Insightful)

metamatic (202216) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636433)

Find me another audio player which:

  • Has good sound quality (please cite reviews)
  • Has a capacity of 80GB or more
  • Plays MP3 and MP4 audio
  • Has an easy to use UI
  • Fits in a pocket

...but doesn't require proprietary software, and I might switch.

If you can't find one, then you've answered your own question.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

east coast (590680) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636453)

I can't speak for anyone else but for me it came down to capacity, battery life and exclusive iTunes content that got me going with the iPod. Granted, the iTunes content thing can be worked around but the convenience of not having to while looking for a new portable player is a plus.

As for all the "it's the interface" talk.... I'm still really not sold on it. Not that I'm having a problem with what it can do but rather what it doesn't seem to do:

1. No track/folder/album repeat.
2. No exclusive on/off switch.

Ok, the 2nd one isn't a big problem but there are times that I think I'm doing a shut off only to find that my iPod suddenly wants to play every song in my library. It's easy enough to work around but a switch is more convenient, IMHO.

And if anyone has a solution for a repeat play option that would be great but so far I haven't seen anything that easily does replay. Granted, I haven't bothered with it much.

Re:What's the draw? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636559)

Lots of reasons.
1. They don't cost a lot more than any comparable player.
2. The ITunes Store does allow an easy painless way to buy songs. So easy and painless that it is easier to buy them than to get them through P2P a lot of the time.
3. Integration with car stereos. Just about everyone works with IPod these days.
4. Accessories. Want a carrying case for it? Just go to any store and pick one out. And I do mean any store. IPod Accessories are everywhere and you can always find one that you like.
5. They are very popular. That means that you can expect support for them for a long time. I can not go to Radio Shack and get an igo plug tip that will work with my Rio Karma.
It comes down to a good product at a reasonable price with lots of support.
Now as to sticking Linux on one. Well that is just because you can. It also allows for you to add support for things like Speex and Ogg.

usable? (2, Interesting)

lutz7755 (1046792) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635841)


Does anyone actually use an ipod that runs linux, or is it just a "neat to have" type thing?

Re:usable? (5, Informative)

ls -la (937805) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636025)

The "Linux support" mentioned in the summary is so that you can use/sync/update the iPod while running linux on your computer, not so that you can run linux on your iPod.
Although it would be interesting to have an open-source iPod OS...

Re:usable? (5, Informative)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636145)

Although it would be interesting to have an open-source iPod OS...
Ask and ye shall receive [rockbox.org] !

It makes me wonder (1)

rolfc (842110) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635849)

why anyone bother to try to lock people in or out. I think that it would be better to open it up, and let everyone use the ipod like they want.

Re:It makes me wonder (5, Insightful)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635899)

because then you run into issues with the RIAA and MPAA who want the iPod locked down even harder than it is. At least by having it somewhat locked Apple can reasonably say that they tried to prevent users from hacking it so its not their fault if people do.

Apple rarely fights hard when it comes to hacking of their products. Often any "fix" they give out is easily removed by people in such a way that it is obvious Apple wasn't even trying.

You have little far to look at the "please dont pirate this software" code in OS X intel.

Re:It makes me wonder (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635937)

Really, I'm sure that this was added simply as a means of legal recourse against other companies that try to patch their DRM into the iPod.

hopefully (2, Insightful)

russellh (547685) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635855)

we'll get amarok on the mac soon, too.

Re:hopefully (2, Informative)

xophos (517934) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635969)

1. Install Debian.
2. Install Amarok.
Shouldn't take more than an hour.
So: No hoping needed here.

Re:hopefully (1)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636485)

Amarok 2.0 will be using KDE4/Qt4, which is going to be very cross-platform friendly (which means Win and OSX versions with minimal teeth grinding)

Half way there (1)

phoxix (161744) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635865)

Having to run commands, compile a prog, and do things manually .... kinda sucks ...

Cracking the stupidity was half the battle, making it easy to use is the other half.

Re:Half way there (3, Funny)

kebes (861706) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636253)

Cracking the stupidity was half the battle, making it easy to use is the other half.
Seriously! And at this pathetically slow rate, we won't have that functionality until Wednesday!

Re:Half way there (2, Funny)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636519)

Knowing the community, we can likely expect full integration with most (activley maintained) iPod libraries on Linux within the week.

It doesn't matter, due to the DMCA ... (1)

un1xl0ser (575642) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635907)

I have the feeling that the DMCA may stop some distros from being able to include this kind of a hack. It does seem to me that it is circumventing some kind of security measure. :-/

In the end, it was great work to have it done, but I urge people to not buy devices that you have to hack around to make it work the way you want it. There are plenty of open devices that one can use without this kind of hassle.

Re:It doesn't matter, due to the DMCA ... (1)

Nextraztus (1084719) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635979)

IANAL, but couldn't it be argued this reverse-engineering is being used for interoperability? I mean, you shouldn't HAVE to run Apple's OS on their iPods -- you bought it.

Sigh, I hate the DMCA sometimes.

Re:It doesn't matter, due to the DMCA ... (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636471)

IANAL, but couldn't it be argued this reverse-engineering is being used for interoperability? I mean, you shouldn't HAVE to run Apple's OS on their iPods -- you bought it.

Beat me to it. That's definitely the spirit of the law - DMCA isn't supposed to be used to prevent you from using a device you bought. It's supposed to prevent reverse-engineering to allow illegal copying or redistribution. Clearly that's not the case here, so I'm not a lawyer either, but this shouldn't trip the DMCA.

When product "protection" becomes interference... (0)

downix (84795) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635933)

DeCSS, iPhone/iPod hacking... when will media companies realize that limiting customer access will hurt their bottom line. When one must be a pirate to play, then all will be pirates, and why not just eliminate the middle-men?

Missing The Point Entirely. (1)

asphaltjesus (978804) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636185)

The point is not that it can't be done. The point is it's a sufficient barrier to simple file sharing.

A reasonable guess is some combination of PHB's at Apple and the Media cartels are driving this kind of totally wasteful resource allocation.

It also is important to understand that the typical executive demanding these features:

1. Don't have a clue.
2. Wield so much power and money they are surrounded by yes-people.
3. Typical power personality lives in a reality distortion field that includes dismissing an informed opinion that is counter to their very basic drive for power and control.

Numbers 2 and 3 create a death-spiral too.

Re:When product "protection" becomes interference. (1)

Churla (936633) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636247)

Well,

Apple, with all it's forced tie ins, lock in, lock out, DRM and other yadda yadda are still easily the number one mp3 player BY FAR. Even with all the far more open options out there (its debatable that even the Zune is even more open than the iPod.)

What incentive do they have to do differently?

You could potentially argue the "look at what happened to MS with Vista and all their DRM and rights management and WGA.." But the problem is that Vista has faltered to the degree it has because it's not that good an OS and not really a needed upgrade, not because of any amount of DRM in it.

DMCA violation? (3, Insightful)

mi (197448) | more than 7 years ago | (#20635965)

I doubt, Apple will tarnish its image by pressing it, but DMCA seems to apply. In fact, it may be out of Apple's hands. IANAL, but they may need to clarify, that they added the new checksum/whatever not to limit whatever it is, DMCA will try to help them uphold, but for some other, non-DMCA protected reason.

Otherwise, the prosecutors may have to enforce the Act whether Apple wants them to or not...

Re:DMCA violation? (2, Insightful)

Chanc_Gorkon (94133) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636051)

DMCA should not be in effect here. First, the hash isn't for copy protection. That much is clear. If it was, then you would not be able to see the song's unless the key was present. Besides, if it's SHA1, it's not very effective for copy protection anyway.

I bet that the only reason the hash is created is for some database integrity verification the ipod does.....just making sure everything is ok before writing data (play counts) to the database.

Re:DMCA violation? (1)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636119)

Does this crack any security in the device that protects media? I could argue that it does not.
Specifically DMCA complaints have to involve that it was used as copy protection, what copy protection is this providing?

Re:DMCA violation? (1)

Poorcku (831174) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636495)

Would you mind replacing Apple with Microsoft, Ipod with Vista and see if you still get modded interesting.

Not only DefectiveByDesign ... (0, Troll)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636001)

I guess someone's been vindicated [slashdot.org] .

But I do have to wonder, does this violate the DMCA? (not that I care much, being in India). Now if they actually reverse engineer the whole daap:// protocol, I'd be more interested, having more friends who run iTunes (in office) than those who don't - being able to share music was one of the really cool things I used to enjoy with them. But looks like Steve Jobs wanting no DRM for audio was not really for us, but to get the antitrust monopoly stuff off his back *for* iTunes, not really to sell to songs to Joe Usb-Player-User.

Anyway, if you picked Apple - you've picked Apple all the way. There are no half-ways about it and according to a few of my friends - it's seamless and worth the price you pay (I don't agree, but ...).

Re:Not only DefectiveByDesign ... (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636351)

You ever look at www.opendapp.org? I've been streaming from a linux media server to itunes etc for years now.

Good because linux support is better (4, Interesting)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636013)

iTunes doenst even come close to the power of gtkpod

I hate poorly named mp3s, gtkpod can get my entire ipod properly organized in a matter of minutes because of the nifty variety of views.

Re:Good because linux support is more better (3, Funny)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636255)

The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
There. Fixed the subject line for you.

Re:Good because linux support is more better (1)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636355)

Thank you, hah, damn I really should have used that, but I probably wouldn't have received a single comment regarding the article at hand

Sometimes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636605)

Certainly there are some features that are better, such as being able to copy off the ipod filesystem, which is not possible in Itunes. But in some cases, it seems to work only for English - I tried backing up my ipod with japanese song files using Amarok, and the japanese filenames and mp3 tags did not copy correctly.

Re:Good because linux support is better (1)

JonathanBoyd (644397) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636621)

I just had a look at gtkpod and my goodness it's ugly. Aside from that, it doesn't seem to do anything iTunes doesn't. If anything, it seems less powerful. What exactly is the advantage you see in gtkpod?

As usual (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636043)

Let me understand this. So there is Linux support because somebody, or some team, reversed engineered something to allow for a Linux port? Why does this sound like Linux is not conquering the desktop? Oh yeah. It's because businesses, including Apple, don't care about that market share. So much for the downfall of Microsoft. Maybe next decade.

Good! (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636079)

I've been looking for a decent utility in Linux to sync my iPod Video. So far I haven't found a utility that's worth the powder to blow it to Hell.

Amarok has some cool utilities for stuff that's already on your iPod, but is very poor in the syncing department. I'll have to give this "iTunes 7 support" version of Amarok a try... after backing my iPod up via xcopy. lol

Why do it in the first place? (1)

scottsk (781208) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636127)

It's not that it's been cracked, but why do this in the first place? Make people mad who use Linux which Apple isn't about to support anyway -- I mean, these are people who might buy iPods and MacBooks in the future, and doing this won't help Apple's cause any.

Re:Why do it in the first place? (0, Redundant)

russotto (537200) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636233)

It's probably intended only for integrity, not for DRM. If they'd wanted to lock the iPod down against adding music to it, they'd use some sort of encryption, not a mere hash.

Boycott Apple! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636191)

Yes, it has been cracked.
It is now technically possible to use the new generation of iPod with Linux.
However, we can clearly see Apple's intention. They want to lock us out.
Boycott Apple!

Unimpressive (4, Funny)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636199)

36 hours... Well after years and years most still have not cracked the method for avoiding the Slashdot effect

Interesting article tags (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20636239)

If this were a non-Apple story, the tags would have included "haha" and "defectivebydesign".

there are other reasons not to buy a Classic iPod (1)

e40 (448424) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636251)

A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum? (5, Insightful)

victim (30647) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636263)

The news around the web is all about this being an evil DRM checksum, but given how quickly the generation algorithm was found, isn't it possible that it is an integrity checksum?

A user can unplug a device at any time, even in the middle of a catalog write. It only seems prudent to checksum the data to make sure you don't have a corrupt file.

I'd be interested to hear if this is a tricky crypto algorithm, or the sort of simple MD5 or CRC of data that a programmer would whip out for integrity. This is important because if the intent was integrity we can expect it to not change. The problem is solved. If it was intended to detect reverse engineered and possibly incorrect files then we can look forward to more algorithms in the future.

TFA was silent on the matter. <wtbw> can i hear a fuck yeah? didn't really tell me much.

Re:A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum? (4, Insightful)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636339)

It only seems prudent to checksum the data to make sure you don't have a corrupt file.

Well, yeah, but why would you want to actively disable access to the parts of the music library that aren't corrupt simply because some of it might be? It's not as if the iPod will explode (or become more corrupt) because of a bad read.

I'm having a hard time understanding the justification for this change, both the "It's just to prevent corruption" explanation, and the "It's a conspiracy by Apple against GNOME users" one. In the absence of anything concrete from Apple, it seems all we can do is speculate.

Re:A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum? (1)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636343)

A user can unplug a device at any time, even in the middle of a catalog write. It only seems prudent to checksum the data to make sure you don't have a corrupt file.
Or the user could be using a piece of third party software that writes bad data to the iPod db, causing the iPod to crash when it tries to access said bad data. An integrity checksum would help prevent this as well (assuming said bad software doesn't include a checksum for a bad db write...)

I, for one, hate it when my iPod crashes and spontaneously reboots while I'm totally in the groove.

Re:A integrity checksum or a crypto checksum? (1)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636607)

That sounds more like it. I had a 5G of a friend's that I synced up using Banshee. I dumped the songs on, hit sync, waited, ejected it afterwards, and it got stuck in an infinite reboot loop. Had to find out how to throw it into emergency disk mode (I think it was toggle hold back/forth, hold back+select if it ever happens to you) and restore iPOS (pun not intended) from a Windows machine with iTunes.

Interesting news but.. (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636319)

Don't forget what might be the real motivation behind said checksum. When devices such as XBOX360 "talk" to the iPod, without authorization from Apple, they now have to break also said checksum, which may be used to (ab)use DMCA and shut off iPod support in XBOX360.

Or in Linux. While I don't think Jobs will go after the Linux hack, I wouldn't be surprised even for a second if he does: he's pretty aggressive about protecting Apple IP as you know (even from random bloggers out there).

Re:Interesting news but.. (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636489)

While I don't think Jobs will go after the Linux hack, I wouldn't be surprised even for a second if he does: he's pretty aggressive about protecting Apple IP as you know (even from random bloggers out there).
I agree that Jobs is big on protecting his IP. But people need to cut some slack on the whole blogging thing.
  1. Apple likes to keep things a secret until the show so they get the "oh my gosh" factor going.
  2. As such they have tight NDAs.
  3. Someone broke their NDA and gave info to a blogger.
  4. Blogger posted the "secret" details.
  5. Apple is ticked, and wants the NDA violator's head on a stick for being in breach of contract and spoiling the "oh my gosh" moment.
  6. Blogger refuses to tell them who violated the NDA, and tries to hide behind the rights given to the press.
  7. Apple puts pressure on blogger, which turns into PR fiasco.

Seems quite obvious to me... (-1, Flamebait)

fall3n_j0ker (1139401) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636329)

Let's see everyone seems to think that you should be able to use your ipod to copy your music from one computer to another(or to another person) get real, all this bitching and whining is about that. I'm sorry, I used to download all my music from various places, yeah you know what i'm talking about. Lets see what is the alternative, oh yeah thats right, if it were not for apple we would be forced to use Windows Media (or worse zune based players) and if you think that your ogg/mp3 players would have stood up to MS assult if it were not for apple's ipod, you are smoking something. So lets do the math, deal with some limited restrictions or be stuck with one company and no competition, if you do not want the ipod, do not buy the ipod, how hard is that, if you do not like the way they set it up, don't use it, other wise quit bitching. -sick of the bickering.

Bluetooth iPod (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636331)

What I want is an iPod that can get its audio data from incoming Bluetooth. Then it could just be a "headphone adapter" (with a big cache, excellent DAC and UI) for either my PC, or my phone, or any other (Bluetooth) network device, without the other devices needing a DAC or headphone output (or to be mobile).

Yea (0)

PyrotekNX (548525) | more than 7 years ago | (#20636367)

But does it run lin.. oh right.
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