Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

143 comments

Like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434617)

Jurassic Park?

Re:Call me paranoid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434618)

uh, what would we do if they set their sights on the US? nuke em? Sorry dude, that wouldn't work.

Re:Radioactive waste eating Bacteria? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434619)

The radiation itself may not harm the bacteria. I've read of one case where a nuclear power plant's cooling water stream (which, although not as radioactive as the core, was still hot) had living bacteria in it. The factor that seemed to kill the most seemed to be the action of boiling. Limiting that allowed the bacteria to live.

As for radioactive decay, you are correct, this won't affect how long it takes to decay. However, the process might make the products more chemically stable. Rather than having a chemical compound that readily dissolves in water, you might end up with a very long polymer chain type of plastic that just sits there. I'll be truthful though, I'm not a biochemist, and I'm not certain how stable any compounds created in this method will last,especially considering that over time, the various radiation products will probably cut the polymer bonds into shorter, lighter, and more easily 'lost' compounds.

Oil Eating Bacteria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434620)

The theory is that you spread the bacteria on an oil slick. The bacteria eat it (break it down to non harmful components) and then die since there's no oil left. Mutataion/Cross breeding (bacteria generations are measured in seconds or minutes) possibilities aside, what happens if, oh soem of it is introduced into a tanker's hold, contaminating the pipeline which feeds it, contaminating the pipeline's source, the black gooey puddle 1,000 feet down?

If they eat toxic waste what CAN kill them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434621)

If they can survive and consume toxic waste. WHat exactly CAN KILL these organisms? It sounds to me like we are toying with mother nature here and in all accounts so far no one has toyed with mother nature and won. Nature always comes on top of us no matter what we do. Who is gonna assure me that that bacteria won't in effect turn around and consume humanity in the long run?

Nuclear Waste (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434622)

I've never quite understood the 'problem' of nuclear waste. We take this stuff out of the ground and use it we've gotten as much energy as we can out of it - doesn't logic dictate that it is now _less_ dangerous than it was when it started? So we can just put it back where we found it (Diluting it with all the stuff it was found with), and we've done the world a favour.

Having said that, I guess there must be a flaw in my reasoning, otherwise other people would think the same thing.

Re:Radioactivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434623)

Nope, radioactivity won't change, it won't be stopped or enhanced, just no change. However, if the bacterium ingest this waster. They can accumulate and easier for us to collect. If you can find out a way to "de-radioactivity" of a certian element in a matter of a second, you will win the next Nobel prize.

Yes I have used them a decade ago. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434624)

I used to be a geologist for an environmental consulting firm before the EPA and state agency lost funding and any power.

I starting using the "bugs" in remediation projects about 1989. The bacteria that broke down hydrocarbon into less volitile compounds were fairly effective under the the right conditions. Temperature, hydrocarbon concentration, porosity of the soil, etc. are all important in order to create an environment for them to work. If the conditions are not just right, the effect is fairly minimal. They are actually very sensitive organisms.

But Still A Longer Lifespan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434625)

You're a depressing twit.

The more primal people didn't live as long as the average human of this time. We might eat more fat and less fruit, but we have things like free healthcare to compensate. Sure, it'ld be better if we ate are fruits and also had the healthcare, but real life is never perfect.

So don't ever suggest all of humankind should go backwards. Especially since I doubt you have the right to.

Re:Nuclear Waste (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434626)

deuterium is not radioactive it is about 1:1000 natural abundance in nature. tritium is radioactive (protons=1 neutrons=2 : weight=3) half life =12 years

Re:pandora's box? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434635)

Insightful my ass. These special purpose bacteria are no more likely to mutate into something that adversely affects humans than the trillions upon trillions of bacteria that are currently within 20 feet of you.

I bet you'd freak if you knew how much bacteria is living in your mouth right now, all (theoretically) capable of mutating into "The Evil Toxic Death Disease."

bacteria (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434636)

Now if they made bacteria to eat copyright/patient lawyers

This bugs me... (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1434638)

But really, in all seriousness, Slashdot's biology knowledge is *far* below its tech knowledge and it shows! Cool new computer & physics advances are hailed, but everytime genetics is mentioned we get some kind of "Playing God" or "Toying with the Apocalypse", or, my favorite, the inane "Jurassic Park" posts.

1.) As many have stated this bioremediation is neither new nor untested.

2.)Bacterium that degrade organic compuounds DON'T just suddenly evolve into killer mutant ebola death microbes!!! Yeesh. I'd be MUCH more worried about virulent strains of E. coli or other natural microbes that live (and feed) off of us "evolving" in such a way. At least there's an evolutionary precedent and possible advantage for that (note - I don't think this is likely either, but it's better than the idea that these toxic bugs are going to become the next flesh-eating bacteria)

3.)Everybody is worried about microbes that could survive radiation... guess what? Naturally occuring microbes DO on a regular basis! I've seen scientists place relatively common bacteria in a flask and shove the thing next to a high radiation source (equivalent of a nuclear reactor). The result? Colonies can survive & live. Bacteria have survived on space probes through stellar radiation as well. The horror!

I think people should calm down about this topic and go back to worrying about GM stuff (I think the worries in that area are overstated as well, but at least some of the concerns are valid and rational. Personally I have little problems with genetic engineering)

Real life != Science Fiction.

Most sci-fi writers != scientists.

Fiction can symbolize, and inspire, but it's predictive powers are not exactly accurate. Finally, I still think people underestimate biologists in these cases. Everyone throws out ideas "What if X happens and then the bacteria change..." People, the biologists DO think about these things! I know that biologists very seriously consider many aspects of this research(ethical and environmental), after all, they're not idiots! Slashdot really needs to get over these wild, knee-jerk reactions to every biology story posted here.

Respectfully,
Kevin Christie
kwchri@wm.edu

Hrm... (0)

Ranger Rick (197) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434639)

Didn't I read this in Neil Stephenson's Zodiac? :)

Re:pandora's box? (1)

Surazal (729) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434641)

Good point. I also thought of another possibility after I hit "submit". :^)

What would happen if an extremely serious environmental catastrophy occurred? Like, for instance, several nuclear reactors in Russia blowing up at once, or a couple of massive oil spills in a single area (unlikely, but certainly possible). As a response, we dump tons of these bacteria on the affected area, and lo and behold! All life forms in the area die off, or something equivalently bad. And, bacteria being what they are and all, this devestation starts spreading as the bacteria population grows.

"Oops... sorry sir. These side-effects didn't show up in the testing phase."

Food for thought.

pandora's box? (2)

Surazal (729) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434643)

While the short term benefits of this are indeed amazing, many slashdotters know that many times these sort of "magic bullets" can backfire on you. For instance, many Europeans are boycotting American foods that come from geneticly engineered plants and animals, and for good reason: We have absolutely no idea what the long term effects are going to be. In fact, some long-term effects are already coming into light (the presence of corn-generated insecticide in the surrounding envoronment, for example).

These bacteria look like exactly what we need to solve industrial pollution caused by accidents. But now I will apply my meager sci-fi skills to extrapolate what will happen in the future if these things become widespread in use.

  1. Bacteria are used to clean up a toxic spill, but a slight mutation causes the bacteria to start an epidemic in humans or other animals (if it affects other animals, it would still be harmful to us if that animal was, say, a cow or a dog).
  2. Corporations, upon realizing that there's a cheap and easy way to clean up after their environmental accidents, become lazy and sloppy. A benzene chemical leak doesn't seem so bad if all it takes is the biological equivalent of a napkin to clean it up. However, not only does this raise the possibility of likelihood #1 above happening, but we could see more environmental catastrophies happening on a more frequent basis. (Never attribute something to malice what could be more satisfactorly attributed to incompetence; we have no shortage of incompetence in this world of ours).
  3. Research that should go into making factories and industrial zones safer and more environmentally friendly instead goes to making "superbacteria". It's sort of like someone buying 2 liters of oil a week for your car when what's really needed is an engine overhaul to fix the leaky engine.

These bacteria don't solve the problem, and have the potential of causing worse problems (the classic 'cure worse than the disease'). I'd rather not see this as a cure-all for our environmental ills.

Re:Hrm... (2)

Phil-14 (1277) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434644)

Actually, as someone with some slight familiarity with similar bacteria, I think your fear is misplaced. The bacteria need sunlight and nutrients besides the oil in order to break down the oil.


I know someone who helped develop oil-eating bacteria. She's said the Feds haven't been helpful in the way they regulate it, otherwise it would have been used much more extensively in such things as the Prince William Sound oil spill.

If something goes wrong (2)

Zachary Kessin (1372) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434645)

If you take the forms that attack oil spills, I think what happens is that when you run out of oil the bacteria dies or goes dormant. Sort of like what happens when you brew beer. The Yeast runs out of food and just drops to the bottom of the container. (Also the alchahol at some point stops the yeast from fermenting).

Read the story (1)

Peter Koren (2433) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434648)

The story simply says that the bacteria can clean up hazardous waste in the presence of high levels of radiation. The bacteria does nothing about reducing the radiation. One can conceive of a chemical reaction that might make it easier to retrieve the radioactive material for a less threatening disposal, but the material at the nuclear level remains unaffected.

Slashdot responds as usual (2)

pberry (2549) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434649)

"What if..."
"Call me paranoid, but..."

Will you people get over it already. Seriously. This is getting silly. Bacteria have such a small genome that they basically can do one thing and do that one thing well. Bacteria don't decide that they are going to do anything. They just do it. No pun intended.

No one complains when bacteria are used to produce antibiotics. No one complains when bacteria is used to produce food. Why not get all fired up over that?

Re:Radioaction (1)

Shimmer (3036) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434650)

No. Radioactivity is a an atomic-level property that is unaffected by chemical re-arrangement of said atoms.

The article actually says that "the superbug does not neutralize radioactivity in metals", but only after strongly implying the opposite. Poor writing.

-- Brian

Radioactive materials (1)

Journey (5880) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434651)

As it seems unlikely that bacterium are equipped with the ability to break radioactive materials into stable elements. The only way I can see this would be useful would be if the bacteria injested the radioactive materials, locking them into a form that was not as likely to spread. For example, one of the biggest concerns in the U.S. Superfund sites is the contamination of ground water. If the bacteria could injest radioactive materials in water and then upon dying keep the contaminates locked in a solid, this would be a Good Thing.

-Chris

Re:pandora's box? (1)

Plasmoid (8367) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434652)

These enhancements only stay around when there is some positive benefit. Example. Suppose that in 5 years 50% of all bacteria are resistant to penicillan then we find something incredibly new and different and start using it. The bacteria that do not have the (now useless) resistance to penicillan will suffer more than the bacteria without.

Radioactive waste?? (1)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434653)

Wait a sec...how does a bug eat radioactive waste and make it inert? The atomic nuclei are still unstable; they'll still decay, releasing radiation; the best you can do is store it in some kind of glass and stick it somewhere where the gammas won't affect human beings. At least, I think that's the case. Can someone help me out here?

Radioactive waste eating Bacteria? (2)

tao (10867) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434654)

I find it rather strange that any Bacteria would
affect the harmful effects of radioactive material.
I don't see how biological processes can, in any
way, affect the levels of radiation from a material,
apart from possibly shielding it a trifle bit. The
only way I know of to make radioactive material
less dangerous (apart from just leaving it to its
destiny for a couple of million years) is to bombard
it with a particle cannon.


But what do I know? And even if (most probably) this only is for "normal" toxic waste, this will probably still be enormously useful, unless companies use this method of reducing their pollution instead of actually reducing the use of dangerous substances in the first place. Those who live (hopefully most of us) can tell.

Re:Slashdot responds as usual (1)

Blue Lang (13117) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434656)

No one complains when bacteria are used to produce antibiotics. No one
complains when bacteria is used to produce food. Why not get all fired up
over that?


Heh, actually, a lot of people have been complaining about that - as antibiotic resistant bacteria have arisen to make life more difficult for those trying to kill them.

We're going about it all wrong, from an evolutionary standpoint. It's much, much better for us in the long run to keep the bacteria weak and the weak humans dead. Of course, this won't happen, and because it hasn't happened, we will pay the consequences - we are breeding organisms that are more fit to exist in our biological niche than we are. Whee!

--
blue, host.

Re:Call me paranoid... (2)

jabber (13196) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434657)

What the oil eating bacteria die after they eat all of their only source of food.

Though I agree with your 'paranoia' that freak mutations could develop to do some unexpected things. I doubt that a petrol-eating critter will suddenly change it's fundamental means of nutrition, but a strain might develop to eat other, related, materials. Instead of crude oil in the presence of salt water, such a strain might consume gasoline or plastics, possibly without needed salt or water. Brief flashback to Andromeda Strain. Or it might munch on fish-oil. ;)

But then again, odds are that the mutation(s) needed to make an impact on 'US' would never paddle back to shore. If anything, I'm sure that the bacteria we release into 'the wild' would not be of the radiation resistant variety. More likely, they'd be highly sensitive to UV, so that once the spill is cleared, the sunlight bakes whatever didn't starve. Maybe salt is the poison.

Interesting point nonetheless, but so speculative, that except for the usual could vs should argument, we have no input or insight into how it is.

Re:Bacteria poop? (2)

jabber (13196) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434658)

I haven't the foggiest. IANAchemist, and it's been a while since I've cracked a book on the subject, or had the original conversation for that matter.

From the description he gave, the iron particles are moved around by the magnetic field, acting much as a filter. They end up clumping together with the filtrate, sink and (I presume) hold the crud in place as the water flows by. When the field is shut down, there's your contaminant/iron sludge, and much cleaner water.

Rinse, lather, repeat. After several iterations (or a long enough pipe), the water is equivalently clean as with traditional filtration methods. The sludge is processed to recover iron and contaminants. Being a ChemE, I'd imagine he's most involved with sludge processing, since the rest sounds like a purely physical process. Anyhoo, it's supposed be be really great for oils, biologicals (sewage) and all sorts of particulate pollution.

Don't know what use the process is for dissolved compounds and toxins. Except that if the iron is somehow coated or serves as a catalyst of some sort... But now I'm completely guessing, so I'll leave it at that.

Neat thing is that there are very few moving parts in the system, and no filters to clean/replace per se. I'd imagine that water flowing at a gentle decline, with the occasional magnetic pulse sent in the opposite direction via wire wound around the pipe or some elaboration on that theme.

Bacteria poop? (3)

jabber (13196) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434659)

Heh, interesting mental picture. Bacteria eating radioactive compounds, and crapping out same, contained in Boron-infused buckyballs. Possibly bonded with Iron, or some other compound that would make it easier to separate from soil|liquid, and physically contain.

A ChemE friend of mine is working on a method of purifying chemically contaminated water by mixing fine Iron fillings into it, and running it through a variable magnetic field. Apparently this works extremely well for many contaminants, and is quite cheap to do (once you've got a site built, that is). Hence the above Iron idea.

Re:The real problem (3)

doom (14564) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434661)

Ok folks, here's the problem: It is not OK to be making all of this radioactive crap in the first place.
My understanding is that the radioactive crap isn't exactly created by the nuclear industry. It's there naturally in the ground, it gets dug up and concentrated, the radioactivity runs down a bit inside the plant, and then you get to try and pick a safe place to put what's leftover. Think of it as an environmental clean-up program, gathering together poisonous material and stashing it out of the way.

Sure, I know, we all need energy and nuclear is cleaner than blah blah blah.....
If you really know this, it doesn't seem to have sunk in. The fact that we worry about where to put nuclear waste is an advantage of nuclear power. There is no "coal waste disposal" problem because it's just assumed that it will all be dumped into the air (including radioactives particles embedded in the coal). This causes kilodeaths every year in the US, but somehow this is all shrugged off in comparision to nuclear power, which *might* cause kilodeaths *if* something went radically wrong.

Finally a topic in my specialty (5)

Jon_S (15368) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434664)

That this bacterium can withstand such high levels of radiation is truly unique. However, not much else about it is. Bacteria are routinely used in site cleanups. The most common use of bacteria is the degradation of organic compounds, primarily hydrocarbons. In this case, the hydrocarbons are aerobically transformed to carbon dioxide and water. Other compounds are also biodegradable to more or less extents. Chlorinated compounds are difficult (primarily due to the steric hindrance caused by the large chlroine atoms), but are subject mainly to anaerobic degradation through reductive dechlorination, or cometabolic degradation.

Now what this article is discussing is a bacterium that transforms mercury. There is also a lot of literature about "metals biodegradation", but of course, metals are elements, and can not be destroyed. What happens in "metals biodegradation" is that the metals are transformed into different oxidation states that are less toxic or harmful. For example, hexavalent chromium is significantly more toxic than the trivalent form.

In the case of mercury, the main concern is methylated mercury versus elemental or ionic mercury. Methylmercury is the most toxic form since it can bioaccumulate (essentially acting like an organic due to its methyl groups) and thus more easily get taken up ny living organisms (nothing is toxic to you unless you get it in your body by ingestion, inhalation, or through dermal absorption. This excludes radiation, of course). So I am guessing that this bacterium somehow demethylates methylated mercury. It probably produces elemental mercury (i.e. liquid mercury) which is less likely to be ingested, or else some sort of mercurous or mercuric salt that is insoluble (mercuric phosphate, maybe?) and not likely to be remetabolized into the methyl form.

Re:Call me paranoid... (1)

jawad (15611) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434665)

i think he meant "US" as in the direct object of "we" (with emphasis). not "US" as in the United States.

Radioaction (1)

Bombcar (16057) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434666)

When you break down radioactive elements, does the radiaction stop? IE, will it then no longer have a halflife? (And it probably won't even have a Quake 1 opensource either....:)
http://www.bombcar.com It's where it is at.

Re:Hrm... (1)

codejnki (16214) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434667)

There's a book co-written by Kevin J. Anderson called 'Ill Wind' about a bug designed to clean up an oil spill which then goes on to eat all petrolium(sp) based products. When I read it I though it was pretty far fetched (lead on to gloom and doom and social breakdown) but reading this makes me want to re-evaluate that.
----
"War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left"

Please moderate the above JonS UP! (0)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434668)

Lots of nice info there!

Re:Radioactive waste eating Bacteria? (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434669)

The general idea in bio-remediation is that the bacteria consumes complex compounds that are diffused over a wide area. The result is that either the bacterium releases its "waste" by-products of metabolism as (for example) a gas or else accumulates the radioactive elements within itself. In the first scenario, the gas might either be harvested in a fermentation/growth chamber or else just allowed to blow off into the atmosphere. In the second I'm not sure what the plan would be.

Re:All nice and good, but (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434670)

I was under the impression that toxic/radioactive waste was often stored in solid state (ie. encased in glass, or as metals) The D.O.E. has huge tracts of contaminated soil to deal with, relatively low level in some cases, yet still not meeting the guidelines. So, as these millions of tons of soil are not realistically cleanable by a mechanical process the idea of growing a bug in the soil that blows off radioactive gas to diffuse into the atmosphere is attractive (to some people) as a waste management strategy. What worries me is that once there are technologies to deal with this gross pollution governmental bodies become more lax about not creating the pollution in the first place!

Re:Radioactive waste?? (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434671)

It's not making radioactive elements inert. The article was confusingly worded. What it is doing is breaking down complex molecules for its foodstuffs. The waste products from its metabolism are then (for example) radioactive CO2 and H20, or more exotic gases and liquids. But in the case of the gas, it just diffuses into the atmosphere. So, it's a handy way of dealing with tons of soil in situ. The bacteria is just a nice little miniature factory for breaking up the larger, more complex molecules containing radioactive atoms and pumping it out of the soil into the air

Re:Not radioactive compounds, but toxic heavy meta (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434672)

Yes it does. A compound can be composed of radioactive atoms. It is true that the bug does not transmute the atoms/elements, but it _does_ consume the compounds. It eats them, catabolizes them into simpler materials. These are not more tame as you suggest. They are still composed of radioactive atoms. These waste products then diffuse, as radioactive gases into the atmosphere.

Re:Radioactive materials (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434673)

locking them into a form that was not as likely to spread I think the idea is to make it more likely to spread. The problem is that the contaminated soils are too concentrated to be considered safe and not concentrated enough that they can be locked up in a small area. Solution, diffuse the radioactive elements into the atmosphere as gases, vapours.

Re:pandora's box? (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434674)

I especially like your third point. There is a fourth one though. A lot of the "engineering" being done is , as in the case here, to make the bacterium resistant to something: herbicides, toxic metals, radioactivity, whatever. The engineered organism does something "good" with this newly acquired resistance. What happens though if it transfers the resistance to a "bad" organism? Until recently, this type of genetic exchange between different species (Horizontal Transfer) was thought to have occured infrequently. Now, however, phylogeneticists suspect that it is quite common and that there have been many instances in the evolution of life. So it is a plausible worry.

Re:Playing God (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434675)

With this insertion, it can also be assured that the trait is not mutatable. How? mutation like this doesn't seem to be covered in the primitive reproductive act of bacteria, only in archaea and eukarya. A mutation like what? What sort of mutations are excluded by bacterial reproduction? What about Lateral Gene Transfer?

Re:Bacteria poop? (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434676)

So, how does the iron become bonded to the contaminant? Sounds interesting.

Re:Playing God (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434677)

If a bacteria begins as succeptible to certain antibiotics, the only way this can be changed is through the lateral gene transfer you refer to I disagree. I assume that you are thinking along some sort of teleological lines where the susceptible bacterium has to be exposed to the antibiotic _before_ it mutates. But the bacterium could easily be in an environment which does not contain the antibiotic, it would then mutate, then possibly be exposed to the antibiotic and then be found to be resistant.

Thanks, informative (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434678)

I have a question then. What happens when organic compounds are placed beside a radioactive source such as one of the transition metals? Would there not be a certain percentage of the C,O,H in the (say decaying vegetable fibres and microbes) which were converted to their radioactive isotopes by this?

Positive benefits.... (1)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434679)

These enhancements only stay around when there is some positive benefit Not strictly true. Even if there is no selective advantage to a particular trait there is no inevitable loss of that trait. In fact, if the trait is even negative, then it can take a long time to select that trait out of the population. There are many caveats to this: population size and reproduction mechanism being the two most obvious. Suppose that in 5 years 50% of all bacteria are resistant to penicillan then we find something incredibly new and different and start using it. The bacteria that do not have the (now useless) resistance to penicillan will suffer more than the bacteria without. I totally disagree. I see no link between having/not-having penicillin resistance and the ability to survive "something incredibly new".

Re:Nuclear Waste (2)

crush (19364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434680)

For some reason the Greens don't like this ... nuclear accidents are far more problematic for humans than the environment in general, I have to wonder what the fuss is all about. Wild thought: suppose "Greens" are concerned for humans? Suppose the intent of many involved in environmental campaigns is to create and maintain pleasant environments for humans? I think you may be relying on a stereotype of extremist EarthFirst'ers or somethings.

Call me paranoid... (1)

nion (19898) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434681)

but if these bacterium can eat just about everything, survive a nuclear blast and still keep on ticking...what happens if they set their sights on US?

i'm not trying to be fatalistic, but if someone decides that they CAN do something, where are the checks and balances to determine if they SHOULD (to paraphrase Jurassic Park)?

i like the idea of dropping a handful of bacterium into an oil spill to help clean it up... but again, what do the bacteria do AFTER they're done with the oil?

A. Chakrabarty (4)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434682)

Bioremediation has been around as long as there have been septic tanks and cesspools - it is certainly nothing new.

The concept of engineering organisms to do this has been around in the '60s.

The first person to do this using early genetic engineering methods was Dr. Ananda Chakrabarty. He used a method of selection to develop a bacterial culture that feeds on PCB's in the late 1960s.

Dr. Chakrabarty later became famous because he became the first person to patent a genetically engineered life form. The case (Diamond vs. Chakrabarty), ultimately decided by the Supreme Court was fought tooth and nail by the patent office. It is one of the landmark patent cases of the 20th century. US 3,813,316 is the patent number.

Re:The real problem (1)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434684)

Concentrating- in my distinctly layman's view- involves boiling water out of something and ending up with a more potent form of what you had before. Bombarding things with neutrons in a multimillion dollar process goes above and beyond concentrating.
1) Can someone give a good quantitative value of the ammount of radioactive particles we spew into the air by burning fossil fuels every year. I remember hearing something on Discovery a long time ago and it was obscene.
2) Congrats to everyone who has posted on this story. This is some of the most focused, intelligent posting I've seen on /. in a long time.

-Barry

All nice and good, but (1)

DarkFyre (23233) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434685)

What _else_ does this 'superbug' do? I think I'd like to know what it produces as by-products, and what other environment effects it may have, before we start throwing them around every toxic waste dump we havn't yet exported.

Besides, I was under the impression that toxic/radioactive waste was often stored in solid state (ie. encased in glass, or as metals) - how is a bacteria going to deal with this? The article even says that they won't deal with metals.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little wary of throwing bioengineered bateria around, especially if they may not be addressing the real problem.

Plenty of life in rocks (1)

SEWilco (27983) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434686)

Petroleum-eating bugs already exist in huge quantities and variety, according to

The Deep Hot Biosphere [cornell.edu] .

Re:Radioaction (2)

JatTDB (29747) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434687)

When the bacteria digest whatever it is that it has been targeted to digest (mercury in the article, though it mentions that it could be targeted at other elements), the stuff's gonna be compounded differently when it comes out the other end. I don't know enough about radiochemistry to know if your average radioactive element will continue to be radioactive when it is in a different molecular arrangement than it was in the original waste form. But, from a non-radioactive standpoint, and you're just talking about toxic elements and combinations thereof, bonding it differently makes a big difference. For a nice and simple example, look at sodium (a soft metal that reacts violently with water) and chlorine (a greenish gas that is extremely poisonous and corrosive). On their own, rather dangerous. Together, they're table salt.

Here's the abstract from the Nature article (1)

CADreamin (31248) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434688)

We have developed a radiation resistant bacterium for the treatment of mixed radioactive wastes containing
ionic mercury. The high cost of remediating radioactive waste sites from nuclear weapons production
has stimulated the development of bioremediation strategies using Deinococcus radiodurans,
the most radiation resistant organism known. As a frequent constituent of these sites is the highly toxic
ionic mercury (Hg) (II), we have generated several D. radiodurans strains expressing the cloned Hg (II)
resistance gene (merA) from Escherichia coli strain BL308. We designed four different expression vectors
for this purpose, and compared the relative advantages of each. The strains were shown to grow in the
presence of both radiation and ionic mercury at concentrations well above those found in radioactive
waste sites, and to effectively reduce Hg (II) to the less toxic volatile elemental mercury. We also demonstrated
that different gene clusters could be used to engineer D. radiodurans for treatment of mixed
radioactive wastes by developing a strain to detoxify both mercury and toluene. These expression systems
could provide models to guide future D. radiodurans engineering efforts aimed at integrating several
remediation functions into a single host.

What the bacteria actually does is detoxify chemical species _in the presence of radioactive waste_ it does not turn radioactive isotopes into stable ones.

Bacteria, though important, are simple... (1)

Dopefish (33181) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434692)

This is exactly correct! And what I said above in not so clear terms. Thanks for the better explanation.

Simply, the genome of bacteria doesn't allow for genetic mutation to the point that an organism can so radically change from what has been created. At least, not in this sort of time span under current climate conditions (i.e., *not* primordial soup).

So, as long as those creating the bacteria are responsible enough to create them with a means of valid destruction, there's no problem.

These bacteria aren't simply going to decide that they can't be destroyed. They live, they do what they have to in order to gain energy, they die.

Re:Playing God (3)

Dopefish (33181) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434693)

I'm not sure if this is being done, but, one good thing about creating your own life is creating a way to make these life easily destructable.
However, unlike Jurassic Park, it can be done in such a way (by inserting DNA of certain protein defficient bacteria) that it is certain they can be killed with anti-biotics. With this insertion, it can also be assured that the trait is not mutatable.

I could be wrong, but, a mutation like this doesn't seem to be covered in the primitive reproductive act of bacteria, only in archaea and eukarya.

The explanation, of course, is a lot more complicated dependent on what type of bacteria (gram-negative or positive) are being used and what the cell-wall composition is. NAM-NAG, B4, etc.

Re:Playing God (3)

Dopefish (33181) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434694)

How?
A mutation like what?


If a bacteria begins as succeptible to certain antibiotics, the only way this can be changed is through the lateral gene transfer you refer to. Basically, this is done in most bacteria by the exchange of plasmids between bacteria. Plasmids are composed of DNA and exist on and around the cell-wall of all bacteria. These plasmids encode enzymes that break down organic material, and also encode enzymes that destroy antibodies.

This is a trait present in both gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, and is how anti-bacterial resistance is passed (penicillin, etc.)

What is being theorized -- and what the control relies upon (AFAIK)is that you can somehow inhibit these plasmids from exchanging -- *given that you are creating this organism*. How this is done, I don't really know.

So, what I'm saying is that a bacteria can't mutate to change its cell wall and the composition of it. It can be changed in a very specialized way to become resistant to certain chemicals (as with anti-biotic resistance), and this is why plasmid exchange must be inhibited.

I think. :)

Re:Not radioactive compounds, but toxic heavy meta (2)

poopie (35416) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434695)

heard a story before about a place in asia where radioactive material got into the rebar factory and was used in the building of a number of apartment houses.

Instead of tearing them down, the government compensated the occupants by not requiring them to pay any income tax.

so I have no way to get any proof. Maybe it's not true, but would *you* raise your family in a radioactive house just to escape paying taxes?



Ever eat a fish that was mutated by radiation? Ever go scuba diving next to a nuclear reactor outlet? PEOPLE DO :(

--
radioactive waste - it's not just for breakfast anymore

Old News (1)

HerrNewton (39310) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434697)

I heard about this years ago. They used to call them IP patents.

Bacteria and the Game of Life (3)

WillAffleck (42386) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434698)

While some amongst us might think it silly, there were recently two men killed in Tacoma, Washington by flesh-eating bacteria. It was carried on the AP and Reuters wires and just happened.

One of the problem with antibiotics is that many strains of bacteria and virii are becoming immune to commonly-used antibiotics, to the point where doctors are now warned not to use the "new" antibiotics except when they know the infectious agent is already immune to the commonly prescribed antibiotics.

More people died from the Spanish Flu than from WWI, after all. And more people died in WWII from disease than any other cause.

Without antibiotics, many of the advances in civilization would have probably not survived. It gave us this breather until we could start working on genetic defenses and tailored anti-viral agents.

Don't know if this is such a good idea (1)

Owen Lynn (46218) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434701)

What if this bug got into say, the storage tank
at a dairy farm, for example. Or maybe the
pipes that carry peanut butter in a candy bar
factory?

It would be IMPOSSIBLE to disinfect the
equipment. Resistant to radiation. Resistant to
heat. Resistant to harsh chemicals.

What if someone took this bug, merged it with
anthrax and dropped it over New York?

I'm not saying that this kind of research shouldn't be done, but think a little bit before
saying "kewl!"

Radioactive neutralization. (1)

MythoBeast (54294) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434704)

It is almost impossible for a chemical reaction to render a radioactive material inert. I say _almost_ because it IS impossible for a chemical reaction to actually cause an atom's nucleus to be converted to a more stable form (that would be a nuclear reaction), but it is possible for a chemical reaction to bind the unstable atoms with atoms of another material (say, lead) that will render it harmless.

Unfortunately, most of the materials that would do this are harmful to the poor little selves involved in this process, and it would take one heck of a tough bacteria to survive hanging out in a radioactive environment in the first place. (either that, or a continual supply of new bacteria)

I can just see them in the lab, mixing up the latest batch of plutonium, lead, and barley agar.



Re:The real problem (2)

pos (59949) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434707)

If you really know this, it doesn't seem to have sunk in. The fact that we worry about where to put nuclear waste is an advantage of nuclear power.

No really it has. I am not saying that nuclear power is worse than coal/oil/whatever. I am saying that we often look to solve tecnology problems with more technology. This leads to a downward spiral of "solutions" when we should be looking at the causes of problems.

BTW, your comment about waste being good because it is not in the air is a good one but will probably go unnoticed. I just want the people who develop technology to realize that they are probably not going to fix the world with their new toys. Prevention.

-pos

The truth is more important than the facts.

The real problem (4)

pos (59949) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434709)

Ok folks, here's the problem: It is not OK to be making all of this radioactive crap in the first place. Sure, I know, we all need energy and nuclear is cleaner than blah blah blah..... but really this is how we get into this mess in the first place. A lot of technology only exists for fixing the problems that we created. I so much wish that instead of sprawling out all over this planet we would stop and look at what we are doing to ourselves and our lives. Technology is fun and all but at what cost?

Americans have horrible diets. They eat 50% more meat than 100 years ago and 50% less fruit/veggies than 100 years ago because meat used to be somthing special that you couldn't afford to eat every night. Now, what is the answer to america's health problems? (Jeopardy! music)

What are: fat burning "natural herbal remedies", fat blocking drugs, and WOW! Potato Chips!

This whole get rid of nuclear waste problem should really be: Let's find ways not to produce so much nuclear waste. While we are at it: Let's find ways to eat better, Lets find ways to live healthier, and Lets find ways to see problems as being caused by something preventable.

I am tired of the band-aid, "shoot those cows full of antibiotics so we can treat them worse without killing them; their antibiotic resistant bacteria will never travel to humans" kind of mentality. The problem isn't that we have oil spills. The problem is that we haven't genetically engineered enough oil eating bacteria. I try to eat organic but it costs 2x as much. You know what, I think it is worth it knowing that I at least try to support sustainable farming practices.

Humans are so egocentric. All of theese huge corporations run by arrogant jerks. The problem with self made men (and women) is that they tend to worship their creator. At least some corporations have some conscience.

-pos

The truth is more important than the facts.

Re:Not radioactive compounds, but toxic heavy meta (1)

quonsar (61695) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434710)


The "radiodurans" part of the name refers to the fact that the bacteria can withstand "1.5 million rads of gamma radiation, or about 3,000 times the lethal dose for humans."

Way cool! Eventually we might learn enough to genetically alter ourselves and acquire similar resistance. Imagine cheap housing and public buildings built with radioactive waste instead of wood and steel. :-)

======
"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16

Selection (1)

Voltage_Gate (69001) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434711)

I heard of a similar project that performed artificial selection on bacteria (probably E. coli), exposing them to increasing concentrations of organic phosphates (the deadly kind... as opposed to the harmless). With trillions and trillions of progeny, a lucky mutation would lead to a strain that literally eats it for lunch. It's misguided to say that an unlucky mutation would eat people for lunch. We have immune systems, antibiotics, the CDC, NIH, and thousands of university and private laboratories in case something goes wrong. And if something does, Hollywood can make a movie about it to smear the name of science, which they will do either way.

Re:Call me paranoid... (1)

technos (73414) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434714)

They just die out, at least in the case of the 'oil-consuming' bacteria. Not only are they tailored to have extremely short lives, they have a tough time surviving on anything except oil. Additionally, these bacteria have the same environmental weaknesses as the parent organism they are derived from; succeptability to antibiotics, heat, microwave radiation, etc.

The article should have dealt with this in more depth, especially given the current paranoia concerning bio-engineered food and cloning.

Re:Radioactive waste eating Bacteria? (2)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434716)

The advantages are several:
  • "Normal" toxic waste can be processed by bugs, but radioactive stuff would kill the bacteria. Splicing the bioremediation genes into a rad-hardened bug lets the bug eat the toxics even if they're mixed with radioactive stuff. If you have a bug that can eat all the benzene, toluene, and other stuff and turn them into CO2 and H2O, you've got a nice bio-friendly way to concentrate the radioactive leftovers.
  • The rad-hard bug may be able to incorporate and immobilize radioactive stuff that would otherwise leach through the soil; a normal bug would be killed by the radiation before it could process very much, even if it had an affinity.
  • By concentrating, reducing or otherwise altering the state of the radio-goo, the bugs may make it possible to do a much better job of isolating what's left.

--

Re:Call me paranoid... (2)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434717)

but if these bacterium can eat just about everything, survive a nuclear blast and still keep on ticking...what happens if they set their sights on US?
From the article:
The pink-colored bacterium smells like rotten cabbage. It was discovered in canned meat in 1956.

It is believed to be 2 billion years old, making it one of Earth's earliest life forms. Scientists believe it evolved when Earth was bombarded with more radiation than today.

Basically, this bug is really good at handling free radicals. If it was discovered in canned meat, it's probably anaerobic and wouldn't like humans too much. In any event, just because something is good at gene repair doesn't mean it could survive long with a human immune system looking for it. This bug has been in the environment thousands of times as long as humans have been on the earth; we've obviously learned to deal with them (on the biomolecular level). Teaching the bug a few new tricks like eating solvents or pesticides isn't going to make it better at invading humans, so we would appear to be quite safe.
--

Ever heard of pasteurization? (2)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434718)

What if this bug got into say, the storage tank at a dairy farm, for example. Or maybe the pipes that carry peanut butter in a candy bar factory?
It seems to be a natural soil bacterium, so it's probably gotten into every milk-tank and peanut-butter factory at one time or another. Normal cleaning and disinfectants appear to be more than sufficient to deal with it.
--

Re:Nuclear Waste (2)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434719)

What comes out of a reactor has less available energy in it than before, but it's dumping it really fast. Think of the difference between a candle flame and a bonfire; the power output of the bonfire makes it dangerous to be up close to it. You could burn the same mass of candles one at a time and barely keep your hands warm.

Dumping the spent fuel back into the uranium mines is superficially attractive, if you don't care that the radioisotopes have a wide variety of chemical properties and many will not stay put under the same conditions as uranium. Not staying put is bad; you do not want this stuff in your drinking water, for example. Ideally you'd separate the stuff in the spent fuel according to its chemical properties and dispose of the stuff that needs disposal in the way which keeps it in one place until it's harmless. This also allows the unused uranium and the plutonium produced in the reactor to be recycled, keeping them out of the waste stream entirely. Check out this Argonne National Lab link [tms.org] for a technical look at what some of the waste-disposal technology might look like. For some reason the Greens don't like this, though. Given that nuclear power emits absolutely no CO2 and nuclear accidents are far more problematic for humans than the environment in general, I have to wonder what the fuss is all about.
--

Did you mean radiation, or radioactivity? (3)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434721)

Breaking down a chemical compound does not change anything about the nuclei of the atoms from which it is made. If you have radioactive technetium salts and you convert them to technetium metal, it is still going to be just as radioactive as it was before. What changes is its solubility and other chemical properties. In the case of technetium the metal is insoluble, so you can immobilize it (and prevent it from leaching anywhere) by reducing it to the metallic state.
--

Re:Not radioactive compounds, but toxic heavy meta (3)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434722)

These waste products then diffuse, as radioactive gases into the atmosphere.
That only happens if the element in question is metabolized to a gas. I can only think of a few elements for which this is true:
  • Tritium (metabolized to water vapor)
  • Carbon-14 (metabolized to radioactive CO2)
Radon and xenon are already gases (noble gases at that), so it makes no difference; they're already gone. Most radwaste is composed of alkali metals, alkali earths and transition metals with the occasional halogen thrown in (astatine, I-129, I-131). These will not be metabolized to gases, so they'd have to escape some other way.
--

Re:If they eat toxic waste what CAN kill them? (3)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434723)

Damn, don't be so paranoid. There are bacteria that live in shit, but they don't find you appetizing. (Maybe you should feel insulted. ;-)

If you'd read the article you'd know that D. Radiourans has been around for a couple billion years. Our entire evolution, from H. Sapiens Sapiens back to the first vertebrate, has been in an environment with D. Radiourans in it. You can stop worrying now, it's okay.
--

Re:Playing God (4)

Tau Zero (75868) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434724)

Oil-eating bacteria have evolved quite naturally; you'll find them anywhere there are natural oil seeps. After they do their job, they become food for other things. Playing God? Well, yeah; if God had decided to play with supertankers full of crude, He would have made a hungry bug to eat the spills too! It's our problem, though, so we get to make the means to fix it.
--

Yum Yum! (1)

hondo (77902) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434725)

This topic is nothing new. I remember seeing this plastered all over that pitiful excuse of a magazine Popular Science. They thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread - (well, they still think solar power is -neat-)

It is possible to genetically engineer a carbon nased life form to consume what we humans deem to be toxic. It has been done over and over. Take for example that beer in your hand. Way back when, I mean WAY back (there are reports that beer is older than wine), the locals would take contamiated water and make beer out of it. The chamical process and yeast renders what ever foreign material in the water to be harmless to humans. Its also served as a good check - if you can make beer out of water, then the water should be fairly safe to drink.

Re:Playing God (0)

Pfhreakaz0id (82141) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434727)

"Life will find a way"

Now if they could only... (4)

twjordan (88132) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434728)

develop a bacteria that could break down microsoft into smaller more benign compounds!

waste broken down to easier to process pieces. (2)

hodeleri (89647) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434730)

They reported that the superbug strains proliferated when exposed to radioactive waste mixtures commonly found at weapons sites. The superbug does not neutralize radioactivity in metals.

What the bug probably does is takes the radioactive elements and removes them from the other toxic elements. If you had a compound of (I'm no chemist here) mercury, cadmium and uranium, the bug would break it down into a uranium compound, a mercury compound and a cadmium compound. This will allow you to easily process and dispose of all three without having to separate them by other means.

Think about processing some huge lump of data, or writing code. Its easier to break the problem up into small, easy to process pieces and work your way through rather than writing everything into the main() function. It is easier to process uranium that it is to process uranium, cadmium, and mercury all mixed into one compound.

IIRC, the problem with radioactivity and living tissue is that the radiation breaks down the weak hydrogen links in the DNA (I read all this long ago, sorry for mistakes) and the DNA reforms itself into arrangements that don't allow the cell to function properly, killing it, or mutates it in such a way that its offspring don't function properly, killing them, or cause a malfunction like cancer.

Previous studies have demonstrated that its radiation resistance probably involves thousands of genes. Even when hundreds of portions of DNA are damaged by radiation, the microorganism can usually repair itself in a matter of hours, using redundant genetic codes to keep (hmm, article trimmed, not my fault)

This is the coolest part about the bacteria, it prevents the malfunctioning that plague other organisms, like humans. Sign me up for gene therapy like this!!

Just great! (1)

Col. Panic (90528) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434731)

Now I have to start working on a movie script about the consequences of bio-engineering an organism to control the consequences of nuclear power and atomic weaponry.

Damn that gene that requires me to point these things out and damn that genome-mapping group of scientists for not finding and annhilating that gene.

Now how can I bio-engineer a solution to this? ...

Seconded (1)

Col. Panic (90528) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434732)

This is fascinating.

Old news (1)

marcushnk (90744) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434733)

This technique has been used in Australia for some time now.
Also we use this sort of tech for exctracting gold from the ground.. Dig it up, slap it in a temp controled vat, drop the bugs in there and hey presto! you have gold leak out the other end..
Much cheaper than alternate ways (the most common system is to crush it, smash it, pulverise it, electrocute it, poison it {arsnic}, fry it and the electrocute it again.
Its a good system that is very controlled (it has to be or it eats the gold instead) and a LOT more enviro friendly.

==================================================
Dear people,

The path of the righteous man is preset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men! Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will! Shepard's the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brothers keeper. And the finder of lost Jews! And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger! Those, who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Admin. And you will know to kneel down at my workstation, and beg for network access if you are to be heard. And those who oppose thy name and position will know only the pain and suffering from a evil network! And be banished from a truly higher Network such as your keepers! And will remain in a "Microsoft network neighbourhood" for all eternity.... now let us pray....... "OK XXXXXXX XXXXX I.T. Help desk is now in session!"
"V1:chaper1:beer 14" :)
I wish I had something better to do...
XXXXX XXXX
----- End forwarded message ----- [ A msg sent out by a frustrated I.T. Dept worker after a few too many L-user complaints and after work beers....{The XXX's are inserted to protect the not so innocent} *grin*] ==================================================

Zodiac (1)

blakestah (91866) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434734)

Just like the book Zodiac by Neal Stephenson.

Just had to do it.

Mandatory Stephenson reference on /.

Re:Radioactive neutralization. (2)

Narcocide (102829) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434735)

wouldn't it be cool if they could break the waste down into something useful and non-toxic... ... like say, McDonald's Mac Sauce. oh.. wait. nevermind.

Re:Radioactive waste eating Bacteria? (2)

Michael Woodhams (112247) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434737)

If you read the article carefully, you see it does *not* affect the radioactivity: "The superbug does not neutralize radioactivity in metals." (Nor could it.) Reading between the lines, it is useful here for two reasons:

It transforms heavy metals into less toxic forms (i.e. less prone to be absorbed by living organisms.) Some of those heavy metals could be radioactive.

It is able to do the cleanup mentioned above, plus neutralizing organic toxins, in radioactive environments that would prevent other biological cleanup methods from working.

God playing God... (1)

Temkin (112574) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434738)

I hate to take credit away from the companies that have spent much time and research on these "superbugs". But in most cases, they're selling a monoculture of common bacteria, or a slightly modified common bacteria. So, for the oil eating variety, I'd say these are really just tools that God has provided.

I have a B.S. in Geology, specializing in hydrogeology, and I used to work as a environmental geologist doing groundwater remediation (this is back in the 0.96-0.99 kernel days). The closest I ever came to actively seeking out a specific bacteria was to pick up a 5 gallon bucket of "activated sludge" from a sewer plant. We used it to start a hydrocarbon bioreactor that consumed gasoline dissolved in water (yep, soluble up to about 50 ppm). The sludge contains a wide variety of useful bacteria, and we just dumped it into the tank to get things going. The tank contains some packing material to provide a surface for the bacteria to grow on, and has some air injectors, like aquarium stones. Once the sludge is in the tank, the bacteria do the natural selection thing, and get to work. Those that can survive on a hydrocarbon diet live, the rest die. Just don't fall in the tank!

Funny thing is, the bacteria we were after, it had a name like pseudomonas or something like that, occurs in much of the soil here in California. Someone figured out that if we just injected a little air down into the groundwater, the bugs would jump on the food source and clean up the water in situ. This was the "big thing" when I decided to jump to my current computer career. Hydrocarbon work was coming to an end in California, and the projects my office was getting involved some really nasty stuff. It doesn't surprise me that they're trying to apply the same principals to more exotic waste products. It certainly works well for hydrocarbons.

"You want a bucket of what?!? Uhhh... Sure... No problem.... You sure you want just one bucket?" - An un-named municipal sewer plant worker, circa 1994.

Temkin

Re:The real problem (1)

Sumocide (114549) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434739)

It's there naturally in the ground, it gets dug up and concentrated, the radioactivity runs down a bit inside the plant, and then you get to try and pick a safe place to put what's leftover. Think of it as an environmental clean-up program, gathering together poisonous material and stashing it out of the way.

Wow, nice disinformation here.

You concentrate the stuff and then you get a chain reaction by neutron bombarding. That means you make the atoms go *pop* and you get a whole pandemonium of even more radioactive and/or poisonous substances. That's different from natural decay where the atom emits alpha particles and shrinks over time. In case of Uran leaving harmless plumbum behind.

And Uran dispersed somewhere underground is a lot less problematic than thousands of hyperradioactive barrels stashed somewhere.

And noone said Coal plants are a good thing, so please stop talking past the issue he mentioned.

Natural microorganisms also consume toxic waste (1)

rowlingj (118872) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434741)

There are also natural (unmodified) microorganisms which consume what we would call toxic waste.
These things are starring performers, concentrating heavy metal compounds in hydrothermal areas (read: warm mineral water flowing through fractures deep in rock) into ore bodies.
They have interesting life chemistry; some are killed by oxygen; some gain energy from the sulphide - sulphate conversion process leaving behind the heavy metal as their waste product but in a more chemically stable state.
The novelty with the original posting is that a new type of microorganism has been created with characteristics of BOTH rad-hard AND heavy metal stabilizing features.
However, I suspect that such organisms may be found naturally in the sub-soil of uranium mine areas such as the ones in Kakadu National Park in tropical north .au (if only people spent the time to look for such things first).
-JR

Re:Nuclear Waste (1)

arcsNsparx (120318) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434743)

There is another side to your question. Nuclear physics is *different* than chemistry. The problem is that you take uranium that exists in nature and use it to extract energy by splitting it into totally different atoms. Yes, the two (or more) pieces that you have left have less energy. But the parts can wind up combining with others to create new atoms that are *more* troublesome. Like Plutonium or any of the really high atomic numbered things at the bottom of the atomic table. Those things usually don't exist in nature, they are created, and have a short half life. But they are created as part of a nuclear reaction. This is how a breeder reactor works. You take a lot of low grade -uranium, let's say- and put it in a reactor that is designed to create heavy atoms -like weapons grade plutonium- from the lighter uranium. Two tons in, 300 lbs out - net loss of energy but a by-product with a bunch more energy potential. And a bunch of contaminated atoms of other normally safe stuff. Like Hydrogen. Add a neutron from the nuclear fission and you have Deuterium, which is radioactive hydrogen. Two deuterium plus one oxygen gives water - innately radioactive water (called Heavy Water). That is where the nuclear waste part shows up. And that's why it is tough to control. Still behaves like water but don't drink (Chernobyl's revenge?)

This isn't new... (1)

pyr0 (120990) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434744)

This isn't a new thing that they just came up with for everyone's information. I first heard about oil eating bacteria several years ago. The organisms naturally occur in any area where a great deal of hydrocarbon compounds concentrate (ASPHALT!!!). These things are found along asphalt roads everywhere, not to mention areas of heavy hydrocarbon contamination. They aren't some miracle of genetic science, but they are a miracle of evolution if you will.

Not radioactive compounds, but toxic heavy metals (5)

Signail11 (123143) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434745)

The genetically altered bacteria Deinococcus radiodurans does not consume radioactive compounds as the summary suggests. As physics assures us, it is [almost] impossible to alter the half-life of a radioactive compound or transmutate elements without massive equipment. OTOH, what these bacteria do is that they have been genetically customized to transform highly reactive heavy metal compounds into more tame and benign materials. The "radiodurans" part of the name refers to the fact that the bacteria can withstand "1.5 million rads of gamma radiation, or about 3,000 times the lethal dose for humans." Pretty amazing stuff.

not a biologist, but I know what I lichen (1)

ectoraige (123390) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434746)

Hmm, From what I know about the 'oil eaters' they, don't actually, change the chemical make-up, they just break it apart, and then envelope the molecules.

I would presume these do the same thing, breaking down the bond, and then surrounding the molecules. I would think they disperse them as well.

hat really interests me here is the 'Oh my Gosh! These super bacteria will take over the world!' posts. Are we really that negative here? I understand the neccessity of the devil's advocate, but sometimes guys...

"A goldfish was his muse, eternally amused"

Re:Playing God (1)

global (123729) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434747)

I don't doubt the practicality of the bacteria, nor the safety of the ones already in use. Though keeping a "scientists will do their job, never you worry" attitude could lead to a `laissez-faire' attitude about genetic engineering. Letting some Joe Average try and develop a cheaper alternative in his basement could be a mistake we end up paying dearly for. Then again, I'll probably just be called paranoid up until the day something goes wrong. =P

Playing God (2)

global (123729) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434748)

US Microbiotics [http://www.bugsatwork.com/ [bugsatwork.com] ], creators of the bacteria used to clean up oil spills have a few other nifty products on the market. Kinda cool to read, but you wonder, though the bacteria are engineered to be short-lived, what if something goes wrong?

Re:Radioactive waste?? (1)

Scrymarch (124063) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434749)

The bacteria eats the toxic compounds such as mercury compounds produced by radioactive processes, not the radioactive stuff itself. Its virtue is great resistance to radioactivity.

Oil Eattin bacteria's (1)

jallen02 (124384) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434750)

If I had more time I would put up a few source articles. For now I will just say it. They use the Oil eatting bacteria's extensively in cleaning up oil spills. They used a LOT of them. They have been known about and in use at least since the Exxon deal.

JA

Re:If they eat toxic waste what CAN kill them? (2)

DunLurkin (125146) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434751)

A lot of things are MUCH more or less toxic to some animals than others. Dogs, for example, can eat half-rotten meat that would kill a human, but can be poisoned by chocolate or even baby formula!!! (synthetic galactose - they can't metabolize it properly... Owls are very resistant to cyanide but sensitive to DDT (which is actually not very toxic to humans, despite its reputation. SO, our notional superbugs may very well have their own non-obvious weakness (plain old oxygen, most likely...)

bacteria (1)

karmalien (129660) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434754)

ggood idea..one could use it for when there 1.5 gallon toilet clogs (every use)....wasn't there a book about this...Ill wind or something like that

Re:Playing God (2)

thesolo (131008) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434756)

God (or whatever sentient being you like) did make a "hungry bug" for oil. The means to absorb spilled oil lies on every human being in their hair. Human hair is the perfect medium for oil; plenty of surface area, a natural attraction between the two, and a large abundance of it. There was a report a few years ago on 20/20 about a hairdresser who saved several bags of hair from his shop, and spent months coming up with several porous containers to hold the hair, while still allowing oil to pass through. He finally came upon a pair of his wife's nylon stockings. He first put an equal mix of oil and water in a kiddie pool out in his yard. He then put some hair in a pair of stockings, tied it off, and threw it in the pool. Within 10 minutes or so, the pool was essentially clean. The water was once again crystal clear, and the single tube of nylon and hair was saturated with all the oil. The report ended by saying the man had several offers from companies looking to use his invention. I haven't heard anything of it since, but it definitely peaked my interest.

Re:Nuclear Waste (1)

Wolfstar (131012) | more than 14 years ago | (#1434757)

The flaw in your reasoning is that uranium, plutonium, and all the rest of it are significantly less concentrated and more shielded in nature than they are after processing. Also, the main purpose behind using radioactive materials for energy is the intense amount of heat that they generate in a fission reaction. This allows the creation of steam via heat exchange between two separate water systems - one radioactive or "hot" and one non-radioactive or "cold" - which in turn is channeled to turbines where the steam created by all that intense heat is used to turn turbines. Nuclear reactors are in essence big, expensive, highly dangerous steam-powered engines that create the single most devastating weapon known to man as an accidental byproduct. Fun, neh? Wolfstar
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...