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Eclipse Makes Java Development on the Mac Easier

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the something-thoughtful-for-saturday-night dept.

205

An anonymous reader writes "While the Java development environment is fully integrated into Mac OS X, the Eclipse developer IDE brings a fully integrated Java development environment to Mac OS X that provides a more consistent and easier to develop cross-platform experience. This article shows you how quickly you can be up and running with Eclipse and Java development on the Mac. 'Whether you're a Mac OS X Java developer working on cross-platform Java projects, a Linux developer switching to Mac OS X because of its UNIX-based core, or a general Java developer looking to develop applications targeted to Mac OS X, you'll want to look at the Eclipse IDE because it provides a solution to each of these development needs. While Mac OS X provides Xcode as its primary Java development IDE, Eclipse provides a more robust cross-platform development environment, with application frameworks for reporting, database access, communications, graphics, and more, and a rich-client platform framework for building applications.'"

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205 comments

I thought Slashdot was "News for nerds". (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20716899)

So where's the fucking news, Zonk?

Re:Eclipse on Mac OSX (-1, Flamebait)

talledega500 (994228) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717615)

This is a confusing bit of junk.

First, lets talk about Java on the Mac when Apple stops sabotaging Java in general.
Java runs like total crap in OSX because Apple doesnt want it there in the first place.
They adopted a beta version of the JDK/JVM and its been total junk all along.

Secondly, well if Apple hadn't sabotaged Java on the Mac well maybe eclipse wouldn't suck so bad on that platform. But it does. In fact eclipse is stagnant on all existing platforms, and I wouldn't be surprised now that they have all but killed the paying tool market for Java, that the eclipse stagnation will resemble Java's overall stagnation as it moves into its rightful place as the more or less irrelevant cobol of OOP.

As an example of how lame eclipse is, it still doesnt have a SWING gui drag and drop canvas painter. Even Visual Age for Java had that.

So to the author I say, you know what screw you, screw apple, screw IBM and screw eclipse.
Because Im sick of people trying to lower my expectations by getting me excited by a
serial, fanatical, letdown.

And you are talking out of your ass.

Re:Eclipse on Mac OSX (5, Informative)

doktorjayd (469473) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717649)

...will resemble Java's overall stagnation as it moves into its rightful place as the more or less irrelevant cobol of OOP

java irrelevant?

heh, back to objective c with ya then talladega. that'll learn you all about irrelevant. ( just go trawl the it jobs section and do a count on the number of objective-c ads compared to java...)

as for the rest of your bizarre rant, java runs just fine on osx. ... and eclipse runs just fine on the java that osx has. as does intelli-j and netbeans, and any other pure java application.

why no swing canvans painter in eclipse? because it uses the SWT gui toolkit, ya donk! geez, and i thought zonk was bad enough spewing this crap as news in the first place!

Re:Eclipse on Mac OSX (3, Informative)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717761)

lets talk about Java on the Mac when Apple stops sabotaging Java in general.
Who's sabotaging? From the "big three" platforms (Windows, Linux, Mac OS X), Mac OS X is the only platform not supported by Sun.
If Apple didn't do the porting, there would be no Java for Mac OS X at all.

Re:Eclipse on Mac OSX (1)

ByteSlicer (735276) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717943)

As an example of how lame eclipse is, it still doesnt have a SWING gui drag and drop canvas painter. Even Visual Age for Java had that.
They have the Visual Editor plugin [eclipse.org] , that supports both SWT and Swing. Last time I tried it, it was very unstable though. It probably improved a bit meanwhile.

Contradicting Itself? (2, Insightful)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 6 years ago | (#20716909)

This announcement confuses me. Doesn't the fact that eclipse took so long to be ported to OS X indicate deficiencies in java as a cross platform language (assuming that I am rembering the facts correctly, and that eclipse is written in Java)? I mean if cross-platform development in java was a snap the fact that eclipse was ported wouldn't make headlines now would it (and would have been done a long time ago)? Of course simple applications might be easy to port in java, but Eclipse seems to be targeted at people working on complex applications (otherwise you wouldn't need all that overhead).

Re:Contradicting Itself? (4, Informative)

Nataku564 (668188) | more than 6 years ago | (#20716931)

Eclipse has been running on the Mac for quite some time now, IIRC. This news post lacks news.

Re:Contradicting Itself? (2, Insightful)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 6 years ago | (#20716953)

Oops, my bad for operating on the assumption that the fact that it was a slashdot headline implied something more than that ibm passed some money under the table for a not-so-subtle advertisement. You can see how I might be confused.

Re:Contradicting Itself? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20718345)

You must be new here...

Uhh, Netbeans (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20716985)

What the hell? Ever heard of or used Netbeans? Eclipse is done after everyone switches to Netbeans. I can't believe this made it through the moderator. Hold on, don't I have some moderator points?

Re:Uhh, Netbeans (2, Interesting)

nahpets77 (866127) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717115)

I'm curious as to why you say everyone will switch to Netbeans. My experience has been that Eclipse is preferred over Netbeans more often than not, from students programming in a university environment to EDA vendors for embedded systems providing their own plugins.

Re:Uhh, Netbeans (2, Insightful)

fbjon (692006) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717861)

Eclipse is more versatile, I believe, and may be preferred for that reason. But I prefer NetBeans because it's all-round easier to work with for me.

Re:Uhh, Netbeans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717185)

Well, TFA doesn't say it took long for IBM to port Eclipse to OS X, nor does the /. summary imply this. You're confusing a random IBM tutorial page for a news article.

Oh wait, you're just comment hijacking. You weren't actually replying to the grandparent post, you just wanted to give your flamebaiting some visibility. Nevermind. Of course, you're marked Score:1, Interesting instead Score:-1, Troll. Sheesh.

Re:Uhh, Netbeans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717319)

I can't believe this made it through the moderator.

Look at who the "editor" is: Zonk. He's a gamer, he doesn't know shit about Java, other than he takes it with soy milk.

Re:Contradicting Itself? (2, Interesting)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 6 years ago | (#20716993)

To add to these other comments:

...Java development environment to Mac OS X that provides a more consistent and easier to develop cross-platform experience...
This is supposed to be a PLUS on MacOS X? If you want a consistent cross-platform experience, use NetBeans. If you want something that actually functions as expected on OS X and is consistent with the Mac UI, use xCode. The only plus I can see is that people who regularly use Eclipse can now use it on OS X. But wait... they've been able to do that already for years.

Stop criticizing the ad. (1)

Tatarize (682683) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717027)

What part of the entire "article" didn't suggest it was a militant Mac-OS-ism follower looking for converts?

Now, Mac OS has this IDE and that other program, runs Photoshop and loves children... you'll love it.

Bias (1)

wenzi (6465) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717123)

So IBM, developer of Eclipse, thinks that Eclipse is great and better than XCode. Who would have thought that. Just a little bit of bias.

XCode is much better at developing Java on a mac.

SWT (2, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717233)

No, it shows why it's a bad idea to write Yet Another GUI Framework - SWT needed to be ported to have Eclipse run. Netbeans has always been just fine...

I've used both, and each have thier strengths.

Re:Contradicting Itself? (3, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717975)

Originally, Java came with AWT, the Abstract Windowing Toolkit. This used native platform UI components, with a fairly general interface. This was not always easy to port, since different native widgets had quite different APIs for similar behaviour, or lacked various function. This was replaced by Swing, which did all of the drawing in pure Java code, meaning it was exactly the same on any platform, and easy to port. Then IBM created SWT, which was a very thin wrapper around the Win32 API. This was great if you're doing Windows Java development, or if you're targeting a toolkit designed by ex-Windows developers who are still basing their APIs on Win32, since it will be very fast (method calls are often just simple trampolines). It is very hard to port to a platform that is older than win32 and shares no common ancestry, however (well, win32 took some things from the Mac Toolbox which Carbon is a distant descendent of, but not enough to make it easy). This made porting SWT, used by Eclipse, to OS X a colossal pain. The half-arsed port that seems to be used makes SWT apps stick out like a sore thumb on OS X (even simple things like live resizing don't work).

This is particularly amusing, since Apple have spent a lot of time and effort on their Swing look and feel, so Swing applications feel less out of place than SWT ones on the Mac now (although both feel more out of place than Mocha ones, making it a shame Apple deprecated the bridge).

Re:Contradicting Itself? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20718071)

Doesn't the fact that...
You must be new here.

Re:Contradicting Itself? (1)

sigzero (914876) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718373)

Eclipse isn't pure "Java" in the sense that it uses SWT and not SWING for its UI. I know SWT is Java, of course, I mean that SWT isn't everywhere that SWING is and it takes more time to get SWT up to speed because it is using "native" widgets. SWT relies on the carbon API and not the cocoa so hopefully that will change as well. Netbeans rocks on OSX.

NetBeans?? (2, Interesting)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 6 years ago | (#20716941)

I heard that something called NetBeans was also a Java IDE and that it's better, easier and has plug-ins...not to mention a large community behind it. I will say one thing though: I am no Java developer so I cannot contribute meaningfully!

I guess a better conclusion would be a disclaimer: -

I do not know what I am talking about!

Java n00b's question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717073)

Netbeans vs. Eclipse:

in a nutshell, anybody?

Re:Java n00b's question (5, Informative)

mark-t (151149) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717103)

In a nutshell? Netbeans is slow. Eclipse is fairly speedy. Netbeans works pretty much everywhere that Java does, Eclipse tends to be a little behind in getting successfully ported to different systems, which usually means that the latest version of Java isn't fully supported by the most recent stable release. Netbeans has a focus on Swing, Eclipse on SWT. Netbeans uses the standard ant build files for its project files, Eclipse uses its own project format. Netbeans appears to be more supported by Sun than Eclipse is.

Re:Java n00b's question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717153)

Thanks for the answer, man.

 

Re:Java n00b's question (1)

DA_MAN_DA_MYTH (182037) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717307)

I disagree with the slow statement, especially when it comes with the OS X platform, Apple invested heavily in getting Swing to work right. If the latest builds NB 5.0+ is any indicationm they did a good job. Eclipse on the other hand just doesn't seem to get the same oomph on OS X that Netbeans has. Also for the nub's out there getting started with development is simpler on Netbeans, you don't have to traverse which plugins you need for Eclipse. Most things are bundled in NBs.

java on the mac speeded up (0, Troll)

Joseph_Daniel_Zukige (807773) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717447)

when the mac moved to the iNTEL platform, maybe?

Guess it shows that more people know how to optimize x86-32 than PPC.

Maybe that's a good indication that people have a harder time tracking registers in their heads as the number of available registers increases over 8?

(Thinking that optimization algorithms that are not understand by the people who write them are likely not to optimize as well as one might hope.)

joudanzuki, a preacher of parameter stacks separate from instruction pointer stacks

Re:Java n00b's question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717599)

"Also for the nub's out there"

Lose the gratuitous apostrophe, Dude. Otherwise it means the "out" that belongs to the "nub," whatever that means.

Re:Java n00b's question (1)

le_lotus_604 (752411) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717415)

I agree, but since the subject is eclipse on Mac, the great + of netbeans is the profiler. I never could make TPTP work on my mac. btw Netbeans Beta 1 came out a few days ago

The opposite here (2, Informative)

zlogic (892404) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717491)

I've used Netbeans and Eclipse and found out that the typical memory usage for Netbeans is 80-120 megs while Eclipse uses about 150-250 (once it was even 350 megs!). The more memory is used, the less is available for other applications and using Firefox with Eclipse on 512 megs of RAM is SLOW, especially if I'm reading a 200-page RFC in Firefox while something is compiling (another memory-hungry task).
I guess the latest JVM (6) has finally made Swing work as fast as SWT.
It also seems that Eclipse's text editor has a more advanced highlighting engine that takes a lot of time to parse the code and while it is being parsed the IDE locks up. E.g. static methods are displayed in italics and that means every method has to be checked if it's static.

Re:The opposite here (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718203)

Most of us develop on something a little faster than a P2-233, so maybe you should consider a computer upgrade.

I've been using Eclipse on the Mac for over two years, so there is certainly nothing new about it, and considering that the article would have been "Install Eclipse into your applications folder, and start it up, and create a projects folder, and then you have your usual eclipse install" I fail to see the point of this story.

The code editor is pretty damn smooth, and I've never noticed lock ups there, the code highlighting is pretty fast. I did notice some slow-down issues over time with Eclipse on a single-core G5 system, but that was pre-Europa, and no self-respecting developer would develop on anything less than a dual-core system these days (although I occasionally use my iBook still, and it performs well enough there).

The biggest issue with Eclipse Europa is its ridiculously slow XML editor, which is the slowest piece of shit ever. This is sad, because the previous XML editor was really quite quick and smooth, and you could get work done in it. I think it's calling an entire document parse and validation step every time you move the cursor, it's that slow. This is on a 2GHz Core 2 Duo, by the way.

Eclipse crashes. (1)

cs02rm0 (654673) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717529)

All the time for me, whether using a stable version or a beta, an official or a build with plugins like JBossIDE, on Windows or Linux. Which effectively renders it useless. Shame, because I quite like the editor although the IDE tools around it aren't as good as Netbeans'.

I tried IntelliJ IDEA though recently and it was really quite nice - definitely made J2EE development significantly easier.

Re:Java n00b's question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717587)

Netbeans appears to be more supported by Sun than Eclipse is.
NetBeans is a Sun product. They would be damned if they didn't support it.

Re:Java n00b's question (0, Troll)

21mhz (443080) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717661)

Netbeans uses the standard ant build files for its project files, Eclipse uses its own project format.
It can use ant too.

Netbeans appears to be more supported by Sun than Eclipse is.
No shit, Sherlock :)

Re:Java n00b's question (1)

DuncanE (35734) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717455)

Eclipse vs NetBeans...

Sun and IBM should join forces and concentrate on "THE ONE" java IDE. I feel this is the only way they will beat MS Visual Studio (which is rapidly becoming the bigger MS monster than XP/Vista OS)

Sure SWT is quicker in some situations and Eclipse has some amazing plugins, but Netbeans has closed the gap on those things and is so far ahead on many more (profiler, handheld development, code completion, Matissee GUI builder..)

IBM needs to eat crow and realise that SUN is not worth eclipsing. There is large asteroid called "Microsoft" that needs to be diverted from its path.....

Re:NetBeans?? (3, Informative)

SJS (1851) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717295)

I recently gave Eclipse an "honest go", and tried to use it on the current project at work. It was a very frustrating experience, even with a die-hard Eclipse user on hand to offer advice and tips. After a month, I gave NetBeans a chance, and by the end of the first day I was managing to get as much done as I was in Eclipse.

Eclipse is a fine product, I'm sure, but it's pretty much set up to be the whole and only development environment. When a solution to a problem is "wipe your workspace and start over, and get it right this time", there's a serious usability issue (from my point of view, at least).

The above-mentioned "Eclipse guy" ended up doing some work for us. We gave him a skeleton project (directory structure, third-party libraries, ant buildfile, etc.) to start with, as we'd eventually be the ones maintaining the code when he was done. It proved to be rather difficult for him to adapt Eclipse to our bog-standard project structure -- he eventually discarded all of it and went with what Eclipse wanted to do.

Now we have some code that is designed to be compiled and run from Eclipse, and nowhere else.

Netbeans, on the other hand, fell over itself accomodating our project structure. "Fixing up" the NetBeans configuration was a snap (once the correct magic dialog box was found, that that's ever the case for GUI tools).

In short, Eclipse is a fine tool, for those that like it and can mandate that everyone else in the project use Eclipse. If you're working in a heterogeneous environment, however, and desire a GUI IDE, then you should also check out NetBeans.

(Of course, to be fair, on my Mac, I tend to use Terminal.app and GVim for preference, and neither Eclipse nor Netbeans.)

Re:NetBeans?? (5, Insightful)

MarsDefenseMinister (738128) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717383)

Something you don't seem to be considering is that this guy who you believed to be a hot Eclipse guy might not have actually been so hot after all. Eclipse shouldn't have forced you to change anything, and if you did, oops.

Re:NetBeans?? (1)

eyeye (653962) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717419)

If you can't even run the ant build file you say you have in Eclipse then it must be either down to you somehow making it netbeans specific, or you are using eclipse wrong (I think your eclipse expert might be nothing of the sort).

(Of course, to be fair, on my Mac, I tend to use Terminal.app and GVim for preference, and neither Eclipse nor Netbeans.)

For java?!?! oh - you are one of those people..

one of those people (1)

Joseph_Daniel_Zukige (807773) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717489)

me too.

Well, I actually kind of split between using the xCode editor and VIM, but I use ant on the command line for compiling.

Maybe the latest xCode handles reorganization of the project better. I suppose I should go get the latest greatest, but that will have to come after updating my Fedora Core box from 5 to 7, and I found myself using LVM across two hard disks in FC5, which confused LVM when I upgraded to FC6, so I have to back up about 10G of data onto a small number of DVDs and CDs, I guess. I'm still hiding from that, and, in the meantime, even my macs are getting a bit long in the tooth.

I have trouble with the workspace concept in Eclipse.

Netbeans 5 has been okay as long as I'm not using Japanese, but, especially on the Mac, Japanese seems to confuse it, especially Japanese in the comments.

(Actually, I can use Japanese with Netbeans on the FC5 box, but, then there's that thing where the default java environment is GNU's, which means the command line and double-clicking require just a little extra work, and I don't yet have a Linux notebook, so I tend to carry Mac OS around with me instead.)

So I do have an excuse, sort of. :-

joudanzuki

Re:NetBeans?? (4, Interesting)

doktorjayd (469473) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717625)

so your eclipse hotshot couldnt:

- check out from source control
- select 'source' folders from the checked out spot, and right click to 'use as source folder' ( do this for test classes too )
- define where to spit the compiled classes to
- select the libraries in the checked out project and 'add to build path'
- double click build.xml, select target to run and press play...

dare i say your eclipse guy may have been bluffing.

i've come across all sorts of good|bad|ugly project layouts in the java ( and c, and perl, and .Shit ) world, but with eclipse, thats pretty much all that you ever need to do to get a build going which has not had the eclipse metadata added to source control.

getting the project running inside the ide can be a different story, from as easy as selecting the class with public static void Main(String[] args) in it , through to loading up a plugin with a j2ee container like jboss ( or just create a debug target with all the jars in a tomcat release and use org.apache.catalina.bootstrap.Startup as the main class...), and hooking in your web app as directed by the wizards.

what i find really out of whack in the parent, grandparent, and all the other little side fires going on is that the argument eclipse is being cast as Netbeans.

i've been working java professional services for years, in and around dozens of client sites with all sorts of java developers at different levels, and i tell ya, the flamewars are all eclipse vs. idea intelliJ.

netbeans? hmmm. netbeans 4 was nice in that it was all worked around ant, but the down side was that each project you create ( and get an autogenerated build.xml ) always ended up with these tenticles that meant you needed all the netbeans libraries around just to get a build going, namely through all the -targets and the taskdefs they wired in.

netbeans was a decent ide for standard swing|awt dev a number of years ago, but had a nasty habit of generating a metric assload of .sidefiles for every gui class that you built, as well as wiring in //##START_SECTION comments all over the shop which of course were completely useless outside of netbeans. does it still do that? maybe i grab a recent bundle some time and have another look.

then theres getting back to the original post.

this is not news.

eclipse has run on OSX for years. the SWT libraries have sometimes lagged a few months behind other platforms in the past ( windows & linux are usually out at the same time ), but this has changed over the last year or 2, and the major platforms are now pretty much all out at the same time.

OK, so .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20716945)

There is nothing in Eclipse that Netbeans or or Xcode can't already provide for me on my Mac.
I don't really care for Eclipse as it's to complex. It seems to be attempting to be everything to everyone,
yet all I need is a window to type in code, auto imports, automatic JUnit testing, simple code formatting and
if Im feeling lazy that capability to handle simple gui layout management.

I may also being missing the entire point in advertising a tool for writing code, on the front page of slashdot.
Eclipse is itself so well known that any Developer that hasn't heard it is probably still coding for
an abacus.

blazing new ground here, man (2, Insightful)

crayz (1056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20716951)

Eclipse + Java + CVS, woohoo. Welcome to three years ago. How about instead let's try:
* Textmate [macromates.com] / Netbeans [netbeans.org]
* Ruby [ruby-lang.org] (Rails [rubyonrails.org] or Merb [devjavu.com] for web programming)
* SVN or Git for source control

Re:blazing new ground here, man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717149)

I'm actually using Eclipse to write a Rails app (radrails: http://www.aptana.com/ [aptana.com] ), with SVN integrated into Eclipse to manage it (subversive: http://www.eclipse.org/subversive/ [eclipse.org] ).

Re:blazing new ground here, man (5, Informative)

crayz (1056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717225)

If you're still using RadRails/Aptana for Rails development, I'd very strongly recommend downloading the Netbeans 6 beta. The Netbeans people have come a long way for Ruby development over a very short period of time. There's still some hiccups in the app, but it shows a lot more promise than the Aptana everything-to-everyone crapfest (I used RadRails/Aptana for about 18 months)

Read through this extensive feature review [lifeonrails.org] and try not to drool - Ruby/Rails tooling is really starting to move forward

Re:blazing new ground here, man (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717685)

Subversive seems to be still in incubation. I use Subclipse [tigris.org] daily and cannot find fault with latest versions.

Now, if anybody could point me to a git or darcs plugin...

Re:blazing new ground here, man (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718245)

I was so happy when I switched from the half-assed Subclipse plugin to Subversive (about 3 months ago). The latter is simply far far better, aside from one thing - Subclipse puts a nice dark * on the file icon to show altered files, whereas Subversive just precedes the filename with a > and that's far more difficult to spot.

IMO of course.

Re:blazing new ground here, man (1)

MarsDefenseMinister (738128) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717367)

You know, some people actually work with their tools and couldn't care less if they were "three years ago" or not.

Eclipse. C++. CVS.

Re:blazing new ground here, man (1)

crayz (1056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717433)

There's nothing wrong with using tools that have been around for a while, and your choice of tools may be completely appropriate and optimal for the type of work you're doing. But the fact that you can accomplish meaningful work with the set of tools you use really means very little. A horse and buggy is a meaningful tool, as is a honda civic. But simply because your horse and buggy can bring you from point A to B, it doesn't follow that you should scoff at all the people telling you it's "so 100 years ago"

See also, the Blub Paradox [paulgraham.com] . Almost everyone has experienced the paradox for themselves, but its a constant struggle to not continue committing it again and again

Re:blazing new ground here, man (5, Insightful)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717899)

Eclipse + Java + CVS, woohoo. Welcome to three years ago. How about instead let's try: TextMate / Netbeans, Ruby [..]. SVN or Git

Some of us pick our tools according to the product we want to make, not according to what's hip and ultra cool right now.

PS: Thanks for comparing Eclipse with Textmate. Made my day.

Re:blazing new ground here, man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717963)

Development on the Mac? Emacs forever!

apples and oranges (4, Informative)

bennini (800479) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718093)

  • Textmate / Netbeans
  • Ruby (Rails or Merb for web programming)
  • SVN or Git for source control
i dont understand how your ability to randomly list off 5 different technologies which are designed to solve totally different problems earned you +5 insightful.
  • Netbeans pales in comparison to Eclipse in terms of performance and expandability. Its almost impossible to tailor their build.xml files because they include so much generated crap (particularly if you are developing GUI applications). i dont really know textmate so i can't comment on that
  • im guessing you were joking when you suggested ruby as an alternative to java. granted. ruby has its advantages, but when it comes to stability, portability, strong type checking, etc java blows ruby out of the water. you can rant all you want about the internet-community website you made using ruby but let me know how it goes when you need to build a real-world, business-critical application that supports distributed database transactions, web services/process orchestration, thread safety, asynchronous messaging, etc. its not just coincidence that java is supported so strongly by IBM, Oracle, HP, BEA, JBoss (now RedHat), etc.
  • i agree with you that cvs is outdated but eclipse supports svn via the subclipse plugin. git is a total joke. i watched Linus' presentation at google where he presented Git and called everyone idiots for using anything else. i was actually inspired to replace svn with git after watching the video and went to the website to check it out. after downloading git,i realized i had to compile everything myself (which i didnt have time or interest in doing), the documentation and other support-documents online were essentially non-existent, and the fact that neither netbeans nor eclipse (which i both use) had any form of support for git, led me to quickly forget it. besides, git's strong point is really for distributed application development. something which i cant really see a ruby project requiring.

the only people that complain about java are ones who have never bothered to learn it past the simple hello world application. take away .NET (which is hardly portable) and you only have ONE platform-independant language which is specifically targetted at enterprise-level development : Java. The massive improvements that the JVM has undergone, the Hotspot technology (which yields awesome performance) and support for generics, embedded scripting languages, annotations and AOP nullify the traditional arguments that java is slow or antiquated. get used to it...java isnt going anywhere and its certainly not going to be replaced by ruby, ever.

whatever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717029)

Intellij Idea has been available for a long time on the mac, if you are going to develop in Java you might as well use the IDE best suited for it. It may not be free but as with most things in life you get what you pay for...

joking right? (1)

lems1 (163074) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717031)

This must be a joke.

Is it April 1st yet? Jesus...

Re:joking right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717091)

I tried this thing called Linux last night, and I must say, it was really something else.

How? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717071)

How is an eclipse going to make Java development easier? I know it helped make Jamaica development easier (for Columbus), but Java is half a world away!

old news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717101)

Eclipse has been available on the Mac for a long time, at least a year, I'm not sure why this is news.

I'm curious why this is being pushed... (4, Interesting)

Umuri (897961) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717111)

At the university i attend as a CS major, there is a big push in the CS classes to use the Eclipse IDE, and trying to use any other one is frowned upon and teachers try to pressure you into switching due to some hidden policy.

My question is anyone have an earthly idea why eclipse is being pushed so much?

From what i've tried, there are other IDEs that are more widely used/accepted as efficient IDEs, and others that i just plain work faster in and are less full of clutter. So did eclipse use to be some industry standard at a forbes 500 or do they have marketing trolls or what?

-Confused Student

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

nahpets77 (866127) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717139)

I would chalk it up to 2 things:

  1. Familiarity: if the course staff knows Eclipse, then it's less effort to standardize on Eclipse than to have to learn the ins-and-outs of another IDE.
  2. Funding: IBM is doing a lot of software engineering around Eclipse, and there's funding available for people doing Eclipse-centric work. See point 1 for what happens when profs and their students start to work with Eclipse.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

RotateLeftByte (797477) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717771)

In addition to your two points I would add

3) Lots of Companies (ie Not IBM) are writing plugins for Eclipse AND/OR basing their product on the Eclipse framework.

  doing the last part of the above actually saves them a huge amount of time and money in bringing a product to market.

I was taking part in the Software Freedom day last weekend and one of the visitors to out stand was a CS student. He was writing Eclipse an plug-in as part of his course. This is far more useful than the sort of silly prog I was made to write when I was a student until I got into my final year when I wrote a cross assembler for an early microprocessor (long since defunct). That was a big jump in complexity.

Yes, Eclipse can be slow especially if you load it all into one install. If you take (for example) WebSphere Message Broker, Integration Developer and Rational App Developer and install it into one tree then it takes forever to startup and/or reconfigure (-clean).

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

Neko-kun (750955) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717155)

Actually, one of my CS Professors [calstatela.edu] loves using Netbeans and would ocassionally make crack remarks about me using Eclipse... So more than likely there's some hidden agenda to get you guys using Eclipse. I use it because it suits my taste and because Netbeans was finicky on the Mac last time I tried it... but that was around two years ago so YMMV

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (4, Funny)

jgrahn (181062) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717181)

At the university i attend as a CS major, there is a big push in the CS classes to use the Eclipse IDE, and trying to use any other one is frowned upon and teachers try to pressure you into switching due to some hidden policy.

My question is anyone have an earthly idea why eclipse is being pushed so much?

Prolonged use of Eclipse causes brain tumors, which release mind control substances, which make you want to convert others to using Eclipse. It's like in Invasion of the Body-Snatchers, only I as far as I know no alien invaders are involved.

Seriously, I think

Another question: why does everyone assume you need an IDE, even for simple lab assignments?

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

jgrahn (181062) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717223)

Damn, pressed the wrong button.

Seriously, I think

... there is a fear of pluralism and variation in many organizations: "there must be One Single Way To Do Things, or people will be confused".

But I am shocked to find this thinking in a CS department -- back when I was a CS major, noone gave a shit what text editors we used, and we were expected not to need help learning them. Some teachers would probably have accepted hand-written programs.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (4, Insightful)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717349)

Another question: why does everyone assume you need an IDE, even for simple lab assignments?

Just a wild guess: Because there's too many CS and IT graduates who don't know how their favorite magical IDE works under the hood. They think it's über-complicated and scary to do development in a terminal using emacs/vi/nano and make/gcc/etc. Some of them have graduate degrees, and some of them teach.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717723)

Why is it taboo for a woodworker to use an electric screwdriver over a hand-powered screwdriver? Oh right its not. Woodworkers have realized that the technology has improved over the years. Now replace electric screwdiver with IDE, woodworker with hacker, and hand-powered screwdriver with seperate text-editor and compiler.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

GwaihirBW (1155487) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717311)

Eclipse is widely deployed in university environments, which means the TFs and Profs will be familiar with it - pushing students to use it will ensure that those who will need the most help will be easy to help. Anyone who knows enough to have a strong preference can (presumably) take care of him/herself.

NetBeans and Eclipse would be the only two options most profs would encourage, as they are the major Free, *Open-Source* IDEs. There are plenty of heavily-deployed commercial IDEs that can do Java (MSVS, etc), but especially when programming, it's a good idea to use the open-source, standards-based libs etc unless you have a really good reason not to. Free is good and not being tied to a commercial product over which you have no control is good. By encouraging students to work with these tools, profs both equip them to be independent and help to expand the open-source userbase, always a good thing, as it both increases adoption and pushes commercial vendors to stick closer to standards. [There's a reason that commercial IDEs are provided cheap or free to college students - training lock-in! Same reasons profs resist when possible. So it's actually an *anti*-marketing-troll stance.]

Another thing is that, as several posters have mentioned, IBM and a few others make a lot of nice extensions for Eclipse, and as it's F/OSS, the profs and TFs can write helpful extensions easily (Duke University, for example, has a very nice default Eclipse setup built with a bunch of nice IBM tools and some Duke custom extensions, including a homework submission tie-in). Also also, it works gorgeously between operating systems - I've shared projects between Windows and Linux without a glitch, which is very convenient if you use labs and might not have a choice, or if you just want to be able to work from multiple systems specializing in different things (perhaps you have auxiliary tools on both OSes).

Personally, I strongly prefer Eclipse to NetBeans. NetBeans was the original full-featured F/OSS Java IDE, but Eclipse just blew past it somewhere in the 2003-2004 range. I admit I haven't used the latest NetBeans release, but there's nothing I need that I don't have in Eclipse, either built-in or added on. I like the environment better than even the very pricey commercial IDEs I've used, and I really like the rich framework it provides - with a few plugins, I can code Java, PHP, and C/C++ all in Eclipse, which makes managing big collections of projects and even multi-part, multi-language projects much easier. This gives it a strength that once was reserved for very expensive, irritatingly proprietary and unbelievably bloated IDEs like MSVS (when I used that, I was constantly having to crosscheck outside refs to make sure I hadn't accidentally created windows-specific code, or some dumb call that was going to require a buggy, non-standard MS lib . . . granted, I was young and inexperienced, but GAH.) And it's only as powerful as you need it to be - it's trim and light, with only the bits you want turned on or even installed, and it can be altered quickly and cleanly.

. . . aaaaaaand I got carried away there.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (5, Insightful)

doktorjayd (469473) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717733)


as a java dev, i can tell you my favourite feature of eclipse: no hidden magic.

all the concepts are the same once you have the ide up and running: you tell the compliler part of the ide where your source directories are, you point it at the libraries that you want to include on the build classpath, and it just compiles them into a directory.

change a file, it auto-compiles and spits the .class into the designated build directory.

then theres the added niceties of a really easy to use debugger, as well as the hot code-replace which lets you hit a break point mid way through a method, change some code _while the debugger is still running_, have it pop the stack back to the top of that method and step through the new code that you've just fixed.

try doing that with vim!

and of course all the readily available plugins to extend the function of the ide, a really clean UI, and make it completely free, and there you have it. when i was a boy, it was all Makefiles in each package directory hand crafted with a master Makefile descending into each subdirectory to complete a build. *shudders with the memory*

other ides, while also providing at least the bulk of the above, often tend to do things with hidden side files ( all of them have their own project metadata files ), or just 'automagically' do things for the user, but often this is to the detriment of not letting the developer understand what is happening as they write up their code.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

cs02rm0 (654673) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717805)

Yes there are better IDEs (most of them IMHO) but Eclipse is widely used, though not an industry standard as such. It's so painful to use though that you may as well suck it up while you're at uni because having to move from Netbeans/Intellij IDEA to Eclipse in a real job will be even more painful.

Unfortunately in the employment world too people 'above' you make decisions without apparent merit and you're stuck with them.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

ealar dlanvuli (523604) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717907)

As one of those instructors, there are many reasons I recommend eclipse.

(1) Netbeans has compiled code for students that javac refuses, causing them to fail an assignment. This was entirely the fault of their compiler being broken.

(2) Eclipse refactoring pretty much takes the cake. No one else even comes close.

(3) If you know how to use Eclipse well, you can write about 50% of the boilerplate java code (or about 90% of the code in an intro class) using dialogs and menus.

(4) Unless you're in the vim camp, I've never seen anyone save time not using Eclipse.

(5) All my A students for the last 6 semesters have used Eclipse, except one who used vim. I used vim then switched to eclipse myself. All my students that use other IDE's tend to get B- or worse.

Sean

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

linuxrocks123 (905424) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718061)

> (1) Netbeans has compiled code for students that javac refuses, causing them to fail an assignment. This was entirely the fault of their compiler being broken.

Oh, really? You looked up the standard, and javac was right and Netbeans was wrong? Or, you just assumed that was the case and are talking out of an orifice not your mouth?

> (2) Eclipse refactoring pretty much takes the cake. No one else even comes close.

And you need this for intro-level assignments ... why?

> (3) If you know how to use Eclipse well, you can write about 50% of the boilerplate java code (or about 90% of the code in an intro class) using dialogs and menus.

Sounds more like a reason to ban Eclipse since it enables cheating to me. If they're just clicking buttons, they're not learning Java.

> (4) Unless you're in the vim camp, I've never seen anyone save time not using Eclipse.

Whatever. Unless you're in the vim camp, I've never seen anyone save time not using Emacs.

> (5) All my A students for the last 6 semesters have used Eclipse, except one who used vim. I used vim then switched to eclipse myself. All my students that use other IDE's tend to get B- or worse.

My own story, I got an A in my horrendously-taught high school CS1 class by virtue of the fact that I already knew the material going in. I came in knowing C++, so I saw Java for what it was: a mutated, brain-dead, bastard child of C++. Having to use it instead of a better language (such as C++) was a huge step down. Perhaps Java would be better for beginners, but I would have liked the option to do the assignments in C++. Beginners, perhaps, would have liked to do the assignments in a pseudocode or a language like Logo; ideally we could both have been indulged, but I recognized that pragmatically you have to force a single language in a class like that. However, I'd been coding in Vi and Emacs for a little while already, so having JCreator forced down my throat in that class was a huge step down. Anything other than Emacs or Vi would have been a huge step down, of course, but JCreator was particularly horrendous, and I see no reason that JCreator should have been required.

My Intro to CS class was the single worst experience I've ever had in a CS course, and I've taken about 14 at this point. I'm lucky to have recognized that my bad experience was due to the instructor, not the material, and I went on to take CS2; most others did not. I beg you not to turn potential computer scientists off of the subject by having their first exposure to the subject be soured by their grades being based on trivialities (like the compiler used) and by a focus on irrelevant details (like a particular IDE's code generation features).

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

ealar dlanvuli (523604) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717931)

Also, I forgot. Eclipse error messages and line identification are probably the best I've ever seen from any compiler/editor ever. ejc gives some of the most readable error messages I've ever seen, except on generics problems.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (1)

ZakuSage (874456) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717939)

My CS1 prof seems to prefer pushing his own IDE (read: he wrote it himself) called JavaRoom.

Anyway, I use Eclipse for a few reasons. First of all, it's really flexible so I can go in and change a whole lot of setting which are then saved to my workspace. Then I can keep this workspace on a USB flash drive or something and use it on my laptop, desktop, friend's desktop, or any of the PCs at school and it'll load up the exact UI settings and the same working environment I was using before. Beyond that, Eclipse has some really nice auto-compillation and auto-build functions that just make life easier. It also dynamically finds syntax errors as you write your statements so you don't compile your classes and find only at the end that you fucked up big time with some 500 syntax errors.

Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20718039)

My question is anyone have an earthly idea why eclipse is being pushed so much?


Because it really is the de facto industry standard right now, at least in my part of the woods (Norway).

You really shouldnt care about this, by the way. As a CS major, you should know enough about using an editor and the various IDEs so that you can make an informed selection for yourself.

What you need to think about is why you shouldnt spend time thinking about the IDE. Eclipse is good enough that it doesnt get in the way. There are other problems out there that really are causing projects to come in behind schedule or get cancelled. Show me how you care about those problems, and you are almost guaranteed an interview.

I think this is what your teachers are trying to tell you in a roundabout way.

Well, it works great (4, Interesting)

DavidApi (136128) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717137)

This article interested me greatly, as I have just recently secured a contract working for a project based on Java and Oracle (developed in Windows). I've taken the code, installed Eclipse for Mac (J2EE), changed the DB connection to MySQL (running on my Mac) and got it running.

And pretty mostly, while I've relearnt Java (from a lapse of 8 years) and got to grips with all the cool and new stuff (like Hibernate, JUnit, Swing, Ant, JBoss etc), I've been able to run the tutorials I've found without too much tweaking.

Now, I'm not a great coder, but getting the pieces to work (like all mentioned above, plus things like Derby) hasn't been a big drama. The cross-platform dream really works! The book I bought, "eclipse Web Tools Platform" published by Addison Wesley (which I highly recommend), isn't focussed on Eclipse Development using a Mac. The examples and diagrams are all Windows looking - BUT I can follow them on my Mac, and get the same results.

I can't compare Eclipse to anything else, but it's doing the job.

PS I'm actually more a Perl programmer - so I thought I'd search for a Perl plugin. Well, there is! EPIC. Easy install (like the other plugins for Eclipse I've grabbed), and so I can do Perl in Eclipse too.

And finally, after reading the foreword in the above mentioned book, I like the philosophy of the whole Eclipse project. It's a worthy project to support - regardless of what platform you use and favour.

Go Eclipse! And Thanks to all the people who're making it happen!

so a java ide makes java dev. faster on a mac (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717147)

Sorry, but are all mac users retarded?

Why is this even news?

Re:so a java ide makes java dev. faster on a mac (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717277)

YES, NO

Eclipse is NOT new on Mac OS X (2, Insightful)

boxlight (928484) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717165)

Eclipse has been available for Mac OS X for years. What's the news here?

Duh? (1)

grahamd0 (1129971) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717331)

Eclipse makes Java development easier? That's crazy! What's next, "Water is Found to be Wet"? Maybe "Sky Confirmed Blue"? How about "2+2 May Equal 4!"?

Sorry, I'm not trying to troll, but where is the "news" in this story?

Re:Duh? (1)

linuxIsLife (1044762) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717487)

Really..... Eclipse makes Java development easier not only on Mac. It runs on Linux pretty well too. Actually I don't know any other good IDE for java devel.

why is this a story? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717427)


yes eclipse works on osx (has for a while). and yes, eclipse is a pretty good ide (has for a while). what do either of those 2 pieces of old news have to do with migrating to osx?

what nonsense (2, Informative)

jilles (20976) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717477)

I'm a Java programmer and I use eclipse. The reason I can't use a Mac is that
1) it still does not support java 1.6 because Apple chooses to bundle new Java versions with new OS versions instead of distributing them separately like the rest of the world does. In practice that means there's up to 1 year or longer (as in this case) before new Java versions find their way onto the Mac.
2) sun does not directly support Mac OS X but leaves the job of porting to Apple, unlike linux, windows and solaris which it does support.
3) If you want to use Sun's OSS Java version on the Mac, you are on your own and will just have to come up with the native mac specific stuff yourself.
4) eclipse has a long history of compatibility issues with Apple's Mac OS X UI Java bindings in their native code for SWT (i.e. this is a C portability issue, not a Java portability issue). It sort of works now but is not quite ideal.

If all of the above is acceptable to you, by all means use a mac for Java development. For me, all of these are unacceptable because I require early access to new Java stuff.

Re:what nonsense (0)

mccalli (323026) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717631)

1) it still does not support java 1.6 because Apple chooses to bundle new Java versions with new OS versions instead of distributing them separately like the rest of the world does. In practice that means there's up to 1 year or longer (as in this case) before new Java versions find their way onto the Mac.

Although I agree with your point, it's worth noting that Eclipse doesn't use the Apple JDK except for launching itself. Internally it has its own JVM, used for compiling and running your projects.

I have high hopes for the OpenJDK project addressing the long JDK release cycles for OS X.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:what nonsense (1)

jilles (20976) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717711)

Sorry but that's nonsense as well. Eclipse uses its own compiler (100% Java) for compiling Java which works just fine on pretty much any java virtual machine, including Apple's and a lot of experimental ones (which is a huge advantage of the eclipse compiler). Eclipse does not bundle a custom java virtual machine on any platform, including mac.

Openjdk.net does not provide mac os X builds so don't hope too much. As far as I know there is no work going on for an open source replacement for the closed source apple java implementation.

Re:what nonsense (2, Informative)

mccalli (323026) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717751)

Sorry but that's nonsense as well.
Advice: cut down the aggression.

Eclipse does indeed include its own JVM. Easily shown - go to the robocode sourceforge project and try running it with OS X's JVM. Fails on the vast majority of 10.4.10 Macs - AWT Exception, which is actually buried away in the Apple native code (plenty of example of this error scattered around the web, seems related to graphic driver as it doesn't occur on absolutely every machine). Now try running it under Eclipse - works.

OpenJDK doesn't provide Mac builds I know, but I can guarantee you there's work going on to port it to OS X. I know this because I'm one of the people having a crack at it. Very early days yet though.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:what nonsense (1)

jilles (20976) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717821)

Windows build is just as large as the apple build. So where did they hide the jre? They might be doing some work arounds for some native issues. The AWT issue sounds like one and I'm aware of Apple having provided eclipse with workarounds for issues in their code like the apple.awt.usingSWT system property on Mac.

Maybe eclipse also puts some replacements for core classes on the boot classpath.

Good to know somebody is working on openjdk on Mac.

Re:what nonsense (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717671)

Not a Mac fanboy, I don't even use one anymore.

  1. I won't dispute that 1.6 isn't supported by Apple, because I wouldn't know (see above, I don't have OS X), but I really wonder why you switch JDKs often? I mean, I'm a professional Java developer and we are still developing for 1.4 because that was what was there when the project started. Switching? Won't do that until there's a major revision. So, for professional programmers, doing large scale projects, this is a non-issue. Besides, if your app is going to run on a Sun server, do you really think that the Sun implementation is the same on x86 and on sparc?
  2. Why exactly do you care? IBM also has a Java Virtual Machine. So do others. It's supposed to be cross-platform, right?
  3. Sure, after all you installed it... What "Mac specific stuff", by the way? You mean stuff like Swing? That should work just fine. Or do you mean SWT, which is part of Eclipse and not part of the core Java language so you can't expect them to ship it.
  4. Might be true... For what it's worth: I ran Eclipse on an iBook G3 in 2004 without a single problem. Must have been lucky, I guess

All, in all, I think you could develop Java applications on OS X in Eclipse without a problem. I'm pretty sure many people already do....

Re:what nonsense (1)

jilles (20976) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717777)

1) as a developer I like to stay up to speed with latest developments in my field. Even if I deploy on 1.5, I'll still develop on 1.6. Actually I'm deploying on CDC Java currently. I know many other developers do the same. Of course you need to test on 1.4 as well. Also, deploying your 1.4 code on a 1.6 VM works just fine and buys you some nice performance & manageability advantages (i.e. technically you'd have to be really conservative to not want that). For some server environments, people use what is supported by the vendor rather than what works best, That's one of the major reasons you still find old 1.4 vms (or worse) running in production environments. 1.3 you might also find even though Sun has long stopped supporting it with security patches and is planning to stop support for 1.4 as well.
2) I care because Apple as a technology provider is years behind Sun and I have no other choice than Apple on a Mac. Apple as a deployment option is ok but as a development option it is simply to limiting for me.
3) like all the native stuff that for example integrates swing into quartz; the virtual machine implementation; etc. The problem is that those native bits have compatibility issues with the native SWT bits in eclipse AND that Apple has been very reluctant to do anything about it (see 2).
4) must have been an old version, I think the compatibility issues appeared in the 3.x cycle.

So yes you are right that if 1-4 are a non issue for you now and during the time you will own the mac, you can develop on it. I hope you agree that some level of awareness of these issues would be nice during purchase decisions. In any case for me that is a reason to stay away from Macs. By the time Apple finally ships 1.6, I will be testing on open source 1.7 builds already.

Cross-platform not easy until user libraries fixed (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717573)

The user libraries feature is useless for cross-platform development at present, and will stay so until this bug is addressed [eclipse.org] .

Summary: just about everything in Eclipse can be referenced using workspace or project-relative environment variables. For example, ${project_loc:myProject}/libs could be c:\workspace\myProject\libs on one person's machine, or $home/eclipse/workspaces/this_workspace/myProject/libs on another machine. No problem.

Except for user libraries.

Unique in Eclipse, user libraries (a collection of pre-packaged anythings, eg. jars, shared libraries...whatever, all bundled up for easy inclusion in multiple projects) need to be hard-coded to a particular path. So forget about the example above, it's c:\workspaces\myProject\myUserLib on one platform, and it is on another too. This is a royal pain, means you can't use the same user libraries file on multiple platforms, or even on one platform but on different individual machines.

Marked as P3 at the moment, but without it cross-platform workspaces are just order of magnitude harder than they need to be.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Cross-platform not easy until user libraries fi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717681)

You can easily work around this issue. You can easily define a variable for this. E.g. I use the M2_HOME variable to include anything that is placed in my local maven repository. Then, when adding a library just use the "Add Variable" button, select your defined variable from the list and click on the button "Extend...". You now can choose the libraries from any path below your defined path in the variable. The references to the jars are now relative to your variable path. When another project member checks out the projects, he just has to redefine this variable according to his file system location and everything will build as usual.

Re:Cross-platform not easy until user libraries fi (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717737)

When another project member checks out the projects, he just has to redefine this variable according to his file system location and everything will build as usual.

But that's exactly the point - it means your workspace isn't cross-platform and depends on external factors. When Eclipse themselves already have a mechanism for defining cross-platform variables (${project_loc:something etc.) introducing a second system for achieving the same results can' be considered a good thing.

I actually agree with you, and we have a very similar workaround in place. We've defined an ant task to create a user-specific user libraries file from a template, and the file which Eclipse imports is the result of that ant task. But it is, as you say, a workaround. The issue simply shouldn't exist.

Cheers,
Ian

Epic Fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20717695)

Eclipse sucks.

Ho hum (1)

nevali (942731) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717709)

Here was me thinking this "news" piece was to announce that they'd finally given Eclipse on the Mac a UI overhaul and made it look, feel, and behave like a Mac application (rather than a cross-platform app).

No such luck.

On other platforms, I use Eclipse extensivey: I don't write Java apps, but there's lots that Eclipse can do, and on Windows it's easily the best all-round IDE. On the Mac, it just feels ugly and klunky-I end up sticking with Xcode for managing the projects and TextMate for editing.

Re:Ho hum (1)

pimpimpim (811140) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718033)

I don't know about the feel, but it certainly looks like a Mac application [ibm.com] . And then again, even Apple itself is not a master in getting its applications all have the same look and feel, using the aqua/brushed steel/whatever they use now theme all mixed up. Can someone actually explain me why the look of an apple program is built in the binary instead of determined by the window manager/OS?

Caught in a time warp? (2, Insightful)

pedantic bore (740196) | more than 6 years ago | (#20717927)

Did this story get caught in a time warp, or is the poster simply an Eclipse shill (and not a particularly good one)?

Eclipse has worked for years on OS X. So, for that matter, has NetBeans. They're both cross-platform and always have been.

Hopefully Eclipse devs learn something from Apple (2, Interesting)

Angelwrath (125723) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718005)

It's nice to see Eclipse for the Mac, but Eclipse could learn a LOT about the user interface and experience from Mac apps. For example, plain ordinary "File Open" and "File Close" and "Import" features, workspaces be damned. Eclipse's current way of handling the opening and importing of source code is excessively difficult, and needs to be changed. The "workspaces" concept is idiotic when the file / folder system works just fine. Hell, BlueJ, another coding program, kicks the crap out of Eclipse in this specific regard and it's used to teach 1st year comp sci students!

Yes, just like the Microsoft Mac team, Eclipse devs could learn a lot from the Mac, I think this will be a good step for them.

what IDE does SUN use? (1)

pddo (969282) | more than 6 years ago | (#20718047)

I have a close mate who works for Sun on some pretty low level dev stuff. After trying to tow the company line with Netbeans, the close friend and workmates chose Eclipse? Why? It's ahead of Netbeans. I get paid to write PHP, JSP and Coldfusion with all the other trappings of web development (CSS, HTML, Javascript) and I use Eclipse for all of them. My workmate needs to write Action Script for Flash, he uses Eclipse. Guess what Adobe wrote their latest Coldfusion debugger in? Not Dreamweaver - but as an Eclipse plugin. ok, ok, I may sound a bit Eclipse fan-boyish and its certainly not the silver-bullet and without its issues (File -> Open was only include last year I think) but for cross platform support and open plugin development - its a great tool. There is even an Eclipse World! (http://eclipseworld.net/) complete with some fantastic pictures of developers.
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