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Replacing a Thinkpad?

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the swimming-against-the-race-to-the-bottom dept.

Portables 902

An anonymous reader writes "As a very happy Thinkpad T20 user (still working after 7 years), I always planned on replacing it with another Thinkpad T-series. However, Thinkpads are now produced by Lenovo, a Chinese company, and I can't quite bear to buy Chinese while the Burmese military are shooting at monks with the Chinese Government as their biggest backer. Maybe this is silly, as whatever I buy is likely to be made (at least in part) in China... but still, what are my options for something as well built as the Thinkpad T-series?"

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Yes, you're being silly (3, Insightful)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781829)

Where exactly do you think the other laptop manufacturers make their gear? A hint: "Designed in California, Made in China", and that is just one of the favourites around here on slashdot.

Re:Yes, you're being silly (2, Insightful)

smtrembl (1073492) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781911)

Well, yes, but ALL the money, at least in this case, goes to china. IBM also sold their designs, wich where very good, but I doubt lenovo keeps them for long, or know how to make them evolve like IBM did!

Re:Yes, you're being silly (5, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781979)

Standing up for one's moral convictions is now silly? How far we've fallen...

Re:Yes, you're being silly (5, Insightful)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782051)

Do not misunderstand me... I find it great that he does that. However, I fear, he's going to have to stick to his current laptop. There is no was to get a computer that isn't manufactured at least partially in China.

Re:Yes, you're being silly (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782089)

Standing up for one's moral convictions is now silly? How far we've fallen...
The point was: what's the alternative? Really, I hope the "how far we've fallen" applies to the western world simply allowing a manufacturing mono-culture to exist in China of all places.

Which, I suppose, was the point of ask.slashdot.org, to ask knowledgeable folks and find an alternative morally compatible laptop to the Thinkpad.

the t series (5, Informative)

bakamaki (1148765) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781833)

I've repaired and issued a lot of laptops in my day and I'm not aware of a true competitor to the T series in terms of chassis design. The current T lineup is really nice, but expensive. I'm starting to think I'll get myself a Dell 1420n with Ubuntu for my next box. Granted it's not a rugged laptop but I don't really need that kind of durability. You could consider the Toughbooks, but I really don't have any practical knowledge of them.

Re:the t series (1, Flamebait)

PlatyPaul (690601) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782085)

Here's a thought: an OLPC [laptop.org] laptop. Decent (if low-end) specs, supports charity, and durable.

As was brought up recently [slashdot.org] , you can buy one starting Nov. 11 [xogiving.org] if you live in the U.S.

Re:the t series (1)

PlatyPaul (690601) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782175)

Sorry, Nov. 12 (though I thought it was supposed to be the 11th...).

Also, the people involved [laptop.org] don't have any direct ties to the Chinese government, much less Myanmar/Burma.

Re:the t series (4, Funny)

MarkGriz (520778) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782087)

I'd go with the T-1000 [wikipedia.org] . Those things are rugged as hell.

Re:the t series (4, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782195)

I considered that option, but I work in a steel mill, so it wouldn't work for me.

Re:the t series (1)

fymidos (512362) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782123)

What do you mean expensive? You can buy a thinkpad for $1500 - this is *cheap* for a T.
In the good old days, T600 used to cost more than $3000 ...
 

Ummmm (5, Informative)

tgd (2822) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781843)

You do realize Lenovo is selling the Thinkpads now because... *drumroll* they were the company that made them all along?

Re:Ummmm (5, Funny)

anthonyclark (17109) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781899)

You do realize Lenovo is selling the Thinkpads now because... *drumroll* they were the company that made them all along?
Lenovowned!

Re:Ummmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781959)

LOL!!!!

Re:Ummmm (5, Informative)

OS24Ever (245667) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782027)

How do you define 'make'?

Reason I ask is the same building where Lenovo computers are 'made' (IE Physically Assembled) is also the same building Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, and many others are made. The company is contracted out to make just about everyones laptop.

China has taken over the manufacturing of *so* many products that we use day to day in the United States (and every other country) that it would be downright impossible to function by 'boycotting' anything Made in China.

I started to look into it after the tenth toy of my kids was recalled. My son's wooden trains, my daughters dolls. Fun stuff. Not that my kids chew on them or anything but still, figured I'd send em in.

So I started wondering what I could get as far as a toy without Made in China on it.

in Short, you can't easily. A specialty store sometimes you can find things made in maybe Europe somewhere, but US made things are hard to find and anything non-chinese is pretty hard as well. Forget about shopping at Wal-Mart. That's the retail arm of China now.

In this current global environment it's impossible for a company to be cost competitive because as a consumer we've been trained to throw out everything and focus on price. If this toothpaste is $0.50 cheaper than that toothpaste, I'm gonna buy it. Never mind that one keeps a family in the US employed and has strict laws about what can go in it vs. the other guy putting antifreeze in his mixture in china.

What's a person to do? It can be done, but it's not something that is easy.

Re:Ummmm (5, Interesting)

jaweekes (938376) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782171)

NPR did an interview [npr.org] with the author of "A Year Without "Made in China": One Family's True Life Adventure in the Global Economy" and they admitted that it was almost impossible to avoid goods from China. It's a very good interview if you want to reduce your purchases from "Made in China".

Re:Ummmm (-1, Flamebait)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782039)

But at least it was contracted and designed and 'managed' by IBM. Now its 100% Chinese. Lower quality, questionable security.

 

Re:Ummmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782091)

Getting rid of the Thinkpad he previously bought before he was interested in boycotting Chinese made goods is different than refusing to by any new Chinese goods.

by that logic... (5, Insightful)

onemorehour (162028) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781847)

avoid Dell, too, since the American government is doing such horrible things around the world. Yes, it's flawed logic. Move on.

Re:by that logic... (1)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781913)

Are dell's made in the US?
(I highly suspect not, but I really don't know)

Re:by that logic... (4, Insightful)

s4m7 (519684) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782115)

FYI: An article in the New York Times on December 19, 2004 said that Dell laptops are made in Malaysia. In contrast, full size Dell computers are made in the U.S.A. (at least those sold in the USA are made here). Other Dell products, such as PDAs, printers and music players are made by "third party manufacturers" primarily outside of the USA.

(found here [computergripes.com] )

So, maybe, maybe not, depending on model. But GP is being rather extreme comparing the horrible things the US is doing and the horrible things china is doing. We're not imprisoning dissidents and journalists yet, and the country we're occupying is at least still free to practice their religion, short of the call to drive the infidels out of the holy land. Contrast with tibet.

I'm not saying we're not bad, but we're no China

no, actually your logic is flawed (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781941)

Re:no, actually your logic is flawed (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782011)

Yet another kid who read a list of fallacies on Wikipedia and thinks he's mister Spock. Maybe you should read a little more, you might learn something. Like the fact that it would only apply to the argument if it were Dell making the accusations. Another harder subject to master is rhetoric, in which you learn that logical invalidity doesn't negate every argument.

Hey, at least it's not ad hominem. Well, actually it is, but at least it's a new term.

Re:by that logic... (5, Interesting)

operagost (62405) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781987)

I'm certainly not buying American until the government allows freedom of speech, assembly, and religion. Oh wait... they do!
Ascribing moral equality between the governments of China and the USA is an insult to the innocent people executed and imprisoned by the vile, corrupt government of China.

Re:by that logic... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782063)

Hmm, how about allows these freedoms to people in others countries, like Iraq?

Re:by that logic... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782189)

Habeas Corpus.
Guantanamo.
Abu Graib.

Need I say more?

The difference between China and the US is that China at is open about their oligarchy while the US pretends to be a democracy.

Re:by that logic... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782207)

You forgot Guantánamo Bay and that it really is "limited freedom of speech". All governments are corrupt. Some more to the core than the others. But if your need is higher than you morals then you will still buy American or European (75% made in China).

Re:by that logic... (0)

Gregb05 (754217) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782005)

Isn't Dell based in the U.K.?

Re:by that logic... (3, Insightful)

Liquidrage (640463) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782017)

Sure because every degree above absolute zero is same the temperature.

Think what you will of America and it's policies. But to even compare it with China is absurd in that regard. American government has, for the majority of the time, been a boon to the world as a whole. Yes, there are conflicts where wonderful leaders like Saddam are overthrown and it makes people unhappy. And no, I'm not justifying Iraq with that sarcastic statement. But I am pointing out that no matter what side of the fence you're on, Iraq was an issue that should have been delt with. It wasn't Atlantis being invaded. American foreign policy is enormous. The most influential country in the world. While it easy to find examples of harm in there, there is more good then harm in the case of American foreign policy. Where as my biggest gripe with China is how the entire world stands by and let's a country like that into open markets so easily considering how disgraceful that country's government is.

Re:by that logic... (1)

BlueF (550601) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782045)

avoid Dell, too, since the American government is doing such horrible things around the world. Yes, it's flawed logic. Move on.

Agreed. While I appreciate your willingness to take a personal stance, there's little-to-no chance of buying consumer electronics 100% guilt-free. That's not the world we live in.

If you do want to ease your conscience and support a good cause, how about OLPC? http://www.xogiving.org/ [xogiving.org]

clarification (1)

onemorehour (162028) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782103)

The point I was trying to make, for those who missed it, was not that America is the same as China, but that Lenovo and Dell are not responsible for governmental policy.

Re:clarification (1)

fifedrum (611338) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782155)

ah, Lenovo is owned by the Chinease government, IIRC, and Dell is not owned by the US government.

Re:by that logic... (1)

DaveCar (189300) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782133)

Well, at least they don't shoot demonstrators [wikipedia.org] in the US.

check ebay for a used thinkpad (1, Informative)

elwinc (663074) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781867)

Check ebay for a used thinkpad. IBM still made them in 2005, though they were made in a Chinese factory.

Re:check ebay for a used thinkpad (1)

crush (19364) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781945)

But watch out and make sure it's not one of the models that has the crappy ATI video chip which is mounted by a Ball Grid Array that tends to break loose even if you treat the laptop like your firstborn.

I call BS (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781871)

>> Thinkpads are now produced by Lenovo, a Chinese company

If that was your problem, you should never have bought a Thinkpad ever. They were always manufactured by Lenovo which has always been a Chinese comopany, the country which it belongs to has always been the same. Can I call this a sudden attack of morality?

Aside from the obvious hypocrisy mentioned above, I am sure you will get a lot of suggestions from the cult of Mac, but believe me - its hard to find a replacement for Thinkpad. No matter how slick other notebooks may look, in terms of fineness, usability and sheer joy of typing (yes, thats critical factor for me at least), nothing comes near.

Buy it anyway (5, Insightful)

ispeters (621097) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781873)

This is cynical of me, but your private little boycott is not going to do the monks any good. If you buy a new Thinkpad now, it'll outlast the problem in Burma. Just buy another one. Lenovo has always produced Thinkpads, it's just that IBM doesn't support them directly anymore. Thinkpads are still the most reliable laptops in the market.

Ian

Maybe a T41, T42 or T43 (3, Insightful)

Myrrh (53301) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781875)

Buy a newer, but still-made-by-IBM-not-Lenovo Thinkpad off eBay?

Panasonic Toughbook (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781877)

I've supported a large number of thinkpads over the years, and never thought of them as being that well made. Certainly no more reliable than a Dell latitude. Anyway, if you're looking for a tough relaible laptop, get a Panasonic Toughbook. It's the best we've found, YMMV.

Re:Panasonic Toughbook (1)

Chirs (87576) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782163)

According to "http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?m=20070809", the thinkpad T61 and R61 passed 5 of the ~25 mil-spec tests for "ruggedness", beating out Dell's "ruggedized" Latitude machines, and equalling Panasonic's "semi-rugged" models.

The "fully-rugged" toughbook would do better in rain or low temperature, but would be heavier, more expensive, and slower.

Way of life (1, Funny)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781879)

and I can't quite bear to buy Chinese while the Burmese military are shooting at monks with the Chinese Government as their biggest backer. You're right. By the way didn't I just see you leave Walmart?

Re:Way of life (1)

msblack (191749) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782057)

I've never been inside a WalMart or Sams Club!

Human rights organizations have been complaining [wikipedia.org] about Myranmar for years

Support Münich Maglev! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781885)

Look for Fujitsu-Siemens. From my experience, they make rather rugged and good business-class laptops and at least some of them are Made in Germany!

So you can support the Münich Maglev. :)

Toughbook (1)

PyJockey (596376) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781887)

I'm also a longtime Thinkpad fan. But I've also had very good luck with Panasonic's Toughbook line. Very well made machines and manufactured in Japan. They cost a little more but should last considerably longer than many of their competitors.

Re:Toughbook (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782019)

But the Japanese kill exotic whales!

Boycot USA products (2, Insightful)

supersnail (106701) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781889)

I certainly wouldnt want to by anything from the USA while children are dying of cholera in Iraq because the USA backed regime has blocked imports of Chlorene.

Re:Boycot USA products (1)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782083)

Flamebait? How? It is rigt on target showing the hypocrisy on the part of the person who asked the original question. Never mind - I see /. is an american website.

Re:Boycot USA products (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782131)

I looked it up and found (so far) absolutely no reports of problems getting chlorine at water treatment facilities. That being said, you do understand that terrorists have been setting off chlorine bombs all year? That seems to indicate that controlling the chlorine might be a good idea!

I suppose the bigger question might be why I'm responding to an ignorant troll.

Don't buy from any american company (0, Redundant)

protomala (551662) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781893)

You know, they are shooting at the musulman priests in Badga desert.

Unfortunaly this will left you with almost no option, because AMD and Intel are american companies, so sorry, you better go to a cave and forget about human kind. :)

You may be out of luck (1)

scubamage (727538) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781903)

SE Asia is the haven for most OEM's to purchase their laptops. For instance, old alienware laptops were actually Prostar laptops with a different logo (a Taiwanese manufacturer). Its going to be hard for you to find something that will allow you to divorce yourself from hardware without Chinese connections.

Re:You may be out of luck (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782185)

Taiwan is NOT China, duh.

Re:You may be out of luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782205)

Seems a bit harsh to blame Taiwan for the polices of the PRC (mainland) government.

Another IBM T Series (1)

Qfour20 (181633) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781909)

I was in your situation a short while ago, replacing an early T series laptop provided by my employer, and I also did not want to support lenovo. I purchased a refurbished T40 from buy.com for about $500, and am incredibly happy. Yes, it's only a single core processor at 1.5Ghz, but it serves my needs very well. In my opinion, IBM's T series laptops are the best non-apple laptops ever to grace this planet.

-q

Oh yeah? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782119)

What if your $500 were used to buy a gun used to shoot little girl scouts? What then?

It doesn't matter... jabroni (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781915)

Do you think it really matters what laptop you buy? Every single company anywhere is doing something horrible to someone. Your best bet is to go into the forest and widdle a laptop from a tree; but then you'd be killing a tree.

Live like Tarzan (1)

Aneurism75 (1048530) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781919)

If you want to boycott Chinese products all together, head to the nearest forest, take off all your clothes, and live like Tarzan in the wilderness.

Re:Live like Tarzan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782109)

Won't work. You'll still be breathing some oxygen produced by chinese plants.

HP (1)

Nexx (75873) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781921)

I use Thinkpads. However, one of my major clients have switched to HPs (from Dells), and ones they have seem quite nice. I'm not sure what model range, though.

Re:HP (1)

thrillseeker (518224) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782213)

I've used Thinkpads forever, but the most recent two have been poorly made and lasted slightly longer than the warranty (sitting on a desk most of the time). I really almost could rave about my new HP 2710p - the system works well and the build quality is (so far) good. The mis-sizing of of some of the keys on the keyboard is a great irritation. The HP version of the ThinkNipple just ain't up to the same feel (why not just license that wonderful device?). The simply ridiculous inability to custom order exactly what I want via their website has to be a hangover from their "minimal quality for the dollar" days of Carly Fiona's reign. All that said, it meets my needs fairly well, but it could have been great. I'll likely buy another one for myself with the recently announced Flash Drive once they get off their duff and start offering it via their webstore, warts and all.

Buy a Macbook Pro Fool! (1)

Microsift (223381) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781923)

Of course, they are also made in China...

A Macbook pro? (1)

soupforare (542403) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782125)

Never owned a thinkpad, then?

huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781925)

I just heard the Chinese are telling the Burmese to cool it on the monk-killing...

Why upgrade? (2, Insightful)

MilesNaismith (951682) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781949)

What is wrong with your T20?

I have an X23 that I refurbished. Maxed out the RAM and put in a new hard-drive. I can't see any reason to replace until it dies.

Eventually I will replace the spinning hard-drive with a flash-drive. I'd love to find a way to replace the CCFL backlight with LED were that possible, to make it even more long-lived.

The American fascination with tossing perfectly adequate technology into a landfill is apalling.

HP or IBM are my favorites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781953)

Just as another poster noted, just about any laptop you purchase will be assembled (or come from parts) in China. If you really like Thinkpads that much, I would suggest maybe looking at getting another one? I am currently typing this on a Thinkpad T40 and I absolutely love it. The only other laptop I would suggest getting is an HP. At my work we use their business series notebooks (not the Pavilion), such as the nc6000/nc8000/nc9000 series, and they are very durable and clean looking. I'm not sure if this is a renamed or a different model line, but they have newer ones that are just "6000" series laptops now (6510, 6710, 6910). I've used the 6910p and it appears to be just as good as the others I previously mentioned.

Compaq (1)

jcuervo (715139) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781965)

I've always liked Compaqs. I had one with a busted LCD that I actually full-on stomped on. It kept ticking, after a badblocks. It was a much older model, a 486 with 16 megs running 2.0 kernels, but I managed uptimes of over a year (I wrote a kernel module to patch the ptrace vulnerability on the fly, and some firewall rules took care of most of the rest :-)).

I currently have a Toshiba Satellite (for some reason) and a pre-Lenovo Thinkpad A20m, and my girlfriend has a Compaq. The Thinkpad and the Compaq are pretty solid. I'll let you know about the Satellite. :-)

As far as getting something that isn't made in China, I'd say, offhand: you're screwed.

General Strike November 6th (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20781969)

If you really give a shit about helping other people, we've got to end the two wars that we are bogged down in. The Democrats don't appear to be able to even attempt to stop the war, so it's up to us citizens to do it ourselves.

We are going to strike on November 6th. Basically, nobody in America is going to work, and nobody is going to buy anything. If our government isn't going to listen to us, the people, then we are going to SHUT IT ALL DOWN.

Re:General Strike November 6th (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782071)

Yep. That strike on 9/11 was a big hit too.

Good luck toolbag.

Re:General Strike November 6th (1)

CRiMSON (3495) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782097)

Good luck with that.

panasonic maybe. (1)

bombastinator (812664) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781971)

The last Lenovo I saw in a store actually had a case so fragile it flexed when I pressed my finger on it. Panasonic toughbooks might not be bad. They recently greatly increased their rated fall distance. If you're looking for a metal case there are also the power pros. They have the tidy little advantage of being able to run all the current major OSes

Good luck (4, Insightful)

Bullfish (858648) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781973)

After Tiananmen Square I stopped buying Chinese. In the last few years it has been almost impossible. If the main thing isn't made in China, components are, and that goes for almost everything. I am sure my shoes are made from the finest Falun Gong hides. In terms of a laptop, I don't any that would have most of the parts made in China. Not much has changed in terms of Chinese regard for human rights, but no one seems to care much as long as they can get what they want cheap, regardless of the treatment of the labour that produces them and the regime that allows it.

We used to liberate people, now we liberate markets.

Any reason to not get a Mac Book Pro? (1, Insightful)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781985)

I've used Macs for years, especially the Powerbook line, and they are long lasting & durable. Plus, you'll be able to run 3 different OS's with Bootcamp.

Re:Any reason to not get a Mac Book Pro? (1)

DrDitto (962751) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782075)

Macs lack a TrackPoint. Its a show-stopper for me. Dell Latitude and Thinkpads have them.

Re:Any reason to not get a Mac Book Pro? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782209)

Can't you get a real woman?

You're aware? (4, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781995)

That reducing the wealth of people in an area makes them more subservient and dependent on the wealthy? In this case, the state... Sanctions ironically simply cement the power of the powerful.

You make people more independent by making them wealthy.

 

Re:You're aware? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782199)

You make people more independent by making them wealthy.

The reverse is also true, which explains some of the behavior in the US.

Original Device Manufacturers (4, Insightful)

cerelib (903469) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781997)

Most companies, even Lenovo, use ODM companies to make laptops. Some of these companies are Chinese, but Taiwan is also a major competitor. Look for names like Quanta, Compal, or ASUS if you want to go with a Taiwanese company instead of a Chinese company. The ODM relationships are not advertised, so you will have to do some digging. Join forums like notebookreview.com and ask people to tell you where their laptops label says it was manufactured if you want to be sure.

disagree (-1, Offtopic)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 7 years ago | (#20781999)

BURYd for being prejudiced/uninformed/borderline racist.

Wait a sec I'm not on digg

You get what you pay for (1)

archen (447353) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782007)

If you want something built well, look into Panasonic. They're not cheap because they're not built cheap.

I'm also a fan of the T series (5, Insightful)

zymurgyboy (532799) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782009)

and I've replaced it with this [apple.com] and this [vmware.com] and couldn't be happier. If you're looking for something with a similar lifespan, look no further.

I carried my little white 2001 iBook in a gym bag back and forth to the office for 4 years, before retiring it for it's final year to home only as a couch computer. It finally gave up the ghost after 5.5 years, and two drops to the linoleum covered floor in my living room -- once from 2 feet, once from three and a half. I wish Apple still used the bullet proof glass for iBook cases. That iBook sure took a beatin' before it belly-uped .

Replacing an iPod? (0, Flamebait)

Xochi77 (629021) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782021)

An anonymous reader writes
"As a very happy iPod user (still working after 7 years), I always planned on replacing it with another iPod. However, iPods are still produced by Apple, an American company, and I can't quite bear to buy American while the Blackwater are shooting civilians with the US Government as their biggest backer. Maybe this is silly, as whatever I buy is likely to be made (at least in part) in the USA... but still, what are my options for something as well built as the iPod?"

there, fixed that for ya!

I know... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782031)

Wait for couple of months and THEN buy a Lenovo laptop.

By then, this monk business should be over, and you can explain to your conscience that China (or Lenovo) are not backing monk-shooters NOW.

Still.. I'd hate to be you.
I mean... giving up everything made in USA because of current troubles in Iraq.
Giving up everything made in Germany, Italy and Japan because of WWII.
And Spanish Inquisition...

Damn! Come to think of it... What do you eat and drink then?

Get a Mac? No nipple! (1)

DrDitto (962751) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782035)

I would happily buy a MacBook if it had the pointing_stick/nipple/TrackPoint/etc (the thing that sits between the G and H keys to move the mouse pointer).

I can't stand the Trackpad.

Re:Get a Mac? No nipple! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782181)

It'd be nice if it had more than a 1-button mouse, too... that button is like 4 inches wide!

Re:Get a Mac? No nipple! (1)

zymurgyboy (532799) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782191)

Have to partially disagree. Rubbing the clit point all day hurts my finger. But I hate the track pad too. The behavior of the trackpad on the MacBooks and MacBook Pros is much more configurable than any non-Apple notebook I've ever used, at least.

More practically, mice are fairly portable and avoid the stupid one-button problem on the Macs nicely.

MacBook Pro (1)

Overbyte (226279) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782037)

My T21 died back in February. I really loved that thing even though it was pretty slow at 1Ghz. I replaced it with a 15" MacBook Pro. I run VMWare fusion on it for those times I need to run a Windows partition. I'm at a point now where I rarely use those Windows sessions. I use the Mac primarily for Java development using Eclipse, JBoss, Tomcat. I had to do some testing on a Vista desktop a couple weeks ago. After that experience, I appreciated my Mac a whole lot more...

And where were the components made??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782053)

Uhm. Almost all electronic components are manufactured in China anyway. Even if you buy a laptop that hasn't been assembled as a whole in China, Laptops are made from resistors, capacitors, ICs and so forth: the bulk of the parts will have been made in China. It *might* still be possible to buy a "100% China Free" laptop. But I doubt it. Overreaching intellectual monopoly laws have completely gutted the manufacturing capacity of the West (without patents and copyrights, it's a free market and manufacturing is locally profitable. With them, lawyering supplants engineering as the road to market domination).

Worst. Article. Ever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782059)

This might be the worst of the slashkos stories yet. And from an anonymous source no less.

Everything probably has blood on it by your standards. Sell all your electronics, stop heating and lighting your home. Sell your home and live in a grass shack.

I would answer... (1)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782065)

I would answer your question but I have a feeling you won't read it, since this comment is also made in China!

You could try... (2, Funny)

Bin_jammin (684517) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782073)

an abacus. They're great for math, unless you've developed something against the ancient Babylonians while living under your rock. The fact is that you're looking at Chinese mad goods no matter what you buy, you said it yourself. You're either going to buy an OLPC when they're available (at only slightly less power than you've already got) or buying Chinese. Don't like it? Who do you think made that T20 for IBM before?

apple (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782095)

"what are my options for something as well built as the Thinkpad T-series?""

You could try Macbook pro.

Thinkpads were ALWAYS made in China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782111)

I ordered my mom a custom Thinkpad several years ago and it was drop shipped from China. They even sent me the tracking number so I could watch the progress.

Good luck finding any computer part today that doesn't have at least 50% of it's components made in China.

Desktops are made in Hungary (2, Informative)

REBloomfield (550182) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782117)

The last lot of Lenovo desktops we brought were made in Hungary. Get one of them instead...

Actually, I would worry about home first. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782143)

10's of million Chinese products were shortcutted and endanger our children. In addition, you can probably count on Leveno products now having some interesting BIOS code (the company is losing the American and Europeans designers and hiring just Chinese).

Smart to walk away from Chinese products. The hard part will be picking what you want. In general, check the various dell models. In addition, the bulk of the Japanese models are made in Japan or South Korea. Apple is a china made item. Regardless, good luck.

That's a tough one. (4, Informative)

ErichTheRed (39327) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782147)

Very little compares to the durability of the ThinkPads, at least in the non-rugged category. You pay dearly for them, but they last forever compared to other notebooks.

Even Dell's Lattitude business line still feels like a toy. Dell really improved their notebooks over the last iteration, and they're still crap. HP's business line (not the consumer junk with the blinky blue lights and 17" monitors) is the only one IMO that comes close to IBM/Lenovo's case design and construction.

If you really want rugged or semi-rugged, you probably need to look at the Panasonic Toughbooks. They're solid, but they're 20% heavier than they should be and you compromise on case design for durability. (Side note, if you buy the true rugged Toughbook, it's assembled in the US (probably for military contract requirements.) You pay accordingly too...list on some of the rugged models is in the $2000-$3000 range.

Your other choice might be a MacBook Pro, but those aluminum cases don't look like they can take a beating the way the old ThinkPads can.

(By the way, everything's made in China now. If it wasn't, you wouldn't be paying the cheap prices you get for hardware now.)

Panasonic? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20782167)

Why not take a look at Panasonic Business class toughbooks? They are very lightweight, yet meant to stand up to a decent beating. Plus they have ridiculously long battery life to boot!

They are a bit expensive but if you are looking for build quality + longevity, I can't think of a better alternative.

hate to break it to ya but... (0)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782169)

I can't quite bear to buy Chinese while the Burmese military are shooting at monks with the Chinese Government as their biggest backer.
If that sort of thing is bothering you and that's why you want to buy American, you better not watch any of the news coming out of Iraq. Our private contractors kill more people in an afternoon than some governments do in an entire repressive crackdown.

(If you mod this down, the terrorists win)

Ignoring the politics, the quality has changed (1)

Plug (14127) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782173)

IBM had a range of ThinkPads aimed at home users (the G series from memory?) but they fell by the way a few years ago.

Lenovo came along (they didn't necessarily make ThinkPads beforehand, I'm not sure if Legend were the company that IBM gave their build contracts to) as the combination of Legend and the IBM PC division. So, the same people are still working on ThinkPads, but with new management. I am typing this on a ThinkPad T60, and while it's nice, it doesn't feel as solid as the T41 I had before it.

Lenovo introduced a number of home-market-esque features - obvious ones include widescreen/titanium covers on the Z series and the Windows key. They also got rid of the IBM branding (at least in advertising) as quickly as they could, which I find interesting; they had the right to use it for 5 years, and "ThinkPad" was definitely associated with IBM, and with quality.

You can now buy cheap Lenovo laptops (C series), which I'd personally keep far away from, as they feel really cheap. At least they've not branded them ThinkPad. The Z series seem to be what they're pitching at "home" to compete with Dell/HP, and in general, the quality (plastic, keyboard, construction) all just seems a little more flimsy now.

I worked for an IBM business partner, and we stopped selling ThinkPads when the quality fell. We moved to HP NC/NX series laptops (much better value for money, at least in New Zealand) - these were not without their problems also. We had one that would cause a right mouse button click when the hood was closed and you tapped the case (or the table, for that matter), because the trackpad was too close to the screen. That was fun to diagnose!

Friends with Dells say they're good; friends with MacBooks say you can't get any better. You pay a little premium for the MacBook's ability to run MacOS, obviously; if you don't value that, you might not want to consider one. I read that they may be bringing out a lower priced line of them soon.

Have a play around and see what you like, but not just at stores - the business quality ones are better specced, often cheaper and not always available in retail stores.

A simple question. (1)

zzztkf (574953) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782183)

Is buying Amerincan made product among your options, while invasion of Iraq by U.S. caused ten thouthands innocent civilian death?

More lives are lost in Iraq than in Burmese.

If refusing chinese product makes sense for you, think again.

end it (1)

gumbico (254663) | more than 7 years ago | (#20782197)

what a tard. if you want to go down that path, you might as well sell off all your crap and go live in a cave. no wait, you can't do that either. go read up on american history and talk to native americans and blacks to see their side of the story. you probably won't want to stay here after that. all countries have done some "not so nice things". get over it and get a T61. if you can't, then go kill yourself cuz you're made in america.
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