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IBM Seeks US Patents For Offshoring US Jobs

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the quite-a-royalty-stream dept.

Patents 203

theodp writes "IBM and other corporations are seeking patents for inventions covering the offshoring of US jobs. The USPTO is considering IBM's patent application for Outsourcing of Services, a 'method for identifying human-resource work content to outsource offshore of an organization' to 'countries where cheaper labor prices and/or cheaper materials are available.' Then there's Big Blue's Electronic Marketplace for Identifying, Assessing, Reserving and Engaging Knowledge-Workers for an Assignment Using Trade-Off Analysis, which provides a handy-dandy IBM calculator that drives home the point that you'll pay less for IGS India workers, whether onshore or offshore. And with its System and Method of Using Speech Recognition at Call Centers to Improve Their Efficiency and Customer Satisfaction, IBM describes how to operate in 'low cost foreign countries' with 'support people not having good English language skills, or having an accent that makes it difficult to understand them' by exploiting technology developed for students who are deaf or hard of hearing, as well as other accent reduction techniques."

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Go for it (2)

josquint (193951) | more than 6 years ago | (#20794989)

I'm sick of calling Dell, etc. and getting an "engrish is my 3rd language" call center representative. If they way to increase the cost of outsourcing, thereby decreasing feasibility, works for me.

Re:Go for it (1)

fymidos (512362) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795105)

Yeah, IBM is portrayed as the bad guy, but some jobs will be outsourced -like it or not- and they *are* doing this for their customers.

That said, i'm not quite certain how "exploiting technology developed for students who are deaf or hard of hearing" can possibly be patented ... i mean could the "usage of wheels to help aeroplanes take off" ever be granted a patent?

Re:Go for it (1)

foobsr (693224) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795379)

could the "usage of wheels to help aeroplanes take off" ever be granted a patent?

I bet, given that a wheel topologically is not very far from a sling, for which you for instance may find (among a plethora of other innovations) ...:
"Accordingly, it is a general object of the present invention to provide an improved and simplified breast support. It is a particular object of the present invention to provide a sling-type breast support. It is another particular object of the present invention to provide an improved sling-type breast support, which may be incorporated in an article of clothing. It is still another particular object of the present invention to provide an improved breast support, which provides women with enhanced support to their breasts, while reducing the discomfort occurring when wearing a bra. It is still yet another particular object of the present invention to provide an improved breast support of a sling-type, which is a single piece and supports a woman's breast from the lower portion thereof. And, it is a still further particular object of the present invention to provide a sling-type breast support which is incorporated in a garment so as to provide a wearer with a freer braless-type of appearance, while providing adequate support to the breasts of the wearer to prevent sagging."
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6113460-description.html , US Patent Issued on September 5, 2000

CC.

Re:Go for it (1)

the_fat_kid (1094399) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795811)

but some jobs will be outsourced -like it or not- and they *are* doing this to their customers.

there I fxed that for you.

lets not kid ourselves. They are not doing this FOR us they are doing this TO us.
they are cutting back on services and trying to save wages.
maybe you wold like to give back 75% of you wages. you know, to help us out.

Re:Go for it (2, Informative)

mikael (484) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795819)

That said, i'm not quite certain how "exploiting technology developed for students who are deaf or hard of hearing" can possibly be patented ... i mean could the "usage of wheels to help aeroplanes take off" ever be granted a patent?

Web transcription services for podcasts - you extract the audio channel from a podcast as an MP3 file, upload the file to the transcription services server. The file is chopped up into separate pieces, with each piece transcribed separately. Each piece is re-edited until it is up to scratch. Then the pieces are spliced together with the splices removed. The resulting transcription is returned to the submitter.

It is a complicated process, so it could possibly patented.

Really, it's much like the pre-1950's accounting services in large corporations. Before they had mainframes to do batch processing, they would employ huge halls of clerks to do the accounting manually. Everything was tallied and cross-checked at each stage to make sure

Re:Go for it (1)

mikael (484) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795837)

that there weren't any mistaked carried through to the final results. Today, this would be the equivalent of parallel processing techniques.

Re:Go for it (2, Informative)

fymidos (512362) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795857)

My point was that the technology is already developed, they want to patent a different usage of it....

Re:Go for it (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795131)

I love the way you criticize the English skills of call center reps, then follow that criticism with one of the more ungrammatical sentences I've read all day. Very nice, indeed.

Re:Go for it (2, Funny)

Artifakt (700173) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795389)

But, people who are not very skilled in English will have even more trouble communicating with someone else who has different deficiencies. So even though he or she isn't making the point very well, that inadvertently makes the point.

Buy Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795203)

Every time I've called AppleCare I've spoken to someone who spoke English as their first language (or good enough that I couldn't tell).

Re:Go for it (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795211)

It doesnt bother me anymore, but it used to greatly.

Now, i just demand to talk to an American supervisor right off the bat.. If they refuse, i take my business elsewhere and be sure corporate knows why.

Re:Go for it (1)

The Clockwork Troll (655321) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795217)

Your post was so ironic I wish I could mod it +1, Ferric.

Re:Go for it (1)

JackMeyhoff (1070484) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795233)

NOBODY forces you to give Dell your money. So stop your complaining.

Re:Go for it (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795871)

So what? Nobody forces you to read posts on /. and yet you clearly feel that you're entitled to criticize them.

MY patent (1)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795001)

IBM describes how to operate in 'low cost foreign countries' with 'support people not having good English language skills, or having an accent that makes it difficult to understand them' by exploiting

I have patented a method for cutting sentences short to make them more clear.

Re:MY patent (1)

fymidos (512362) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795117)

and did you actually use it on the patent application ?

Re:MY patent (1)

garry_g (106621) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795193)

Wonder if I should put in for a patent on identifying the urge for critical bodily relief and subsequent acting on the urge.

When is the USPO finally going to kick the big players in their behinds for even thinking of patenting such obvious things?

Re:MY patent (1)

Artifakt (700173) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795407)

Then please don't litigate.

I will apply for a patent of India style English. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795005)

1: Apply for a patent of India style English
2: ???
3: ???
4: Profit!

oh boy (1)

427_ci_505 (1009677) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795011)

for a second, I thought they were patenting offshoring/outsourcing. Now that would have been wacky...

Re:oh boy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795691)

that was what i thought, too. that would have been rich

IBM sold counting machines to the Nazis (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795045)

It's no wonder they want to ensure a financial holocaust by gouging the middle classes out of their native countries.

At least Windows is made in the USA (0, Flamebait)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795051)

See, now we see what IBM is really all about, using free software to make it easier to throw more people out of work in the states. At least with Microsoft, there's developers actually working in the USA....

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (3, Informative)

similar_name (1164087) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795109)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/322652_msftvancouver06.html [nwsource.com]
I wouldn't show MS as an example of Made in the USA.
lookup the xbox production sometime too. http://www.google.com/search?q=xbox+production+international [google.com]

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795155)

Did I say X-Box? I thought I said -Windows-.

Why Microsoft is in Vancouver (1)

rbarreira (836272) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795427)

Microsoft open a development center in Vancouver because of Visa problems for foreign workers. I know an European (Danish) guy who successfully interviewed for Microsoft, and then couldn't get a visa (in that "lottery" style programme). Microsoft then decided to get him working in Vancouver, and he'll go to Seattle every once in a while to meet up with the rest of the team.

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (4, Funny)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795153)

Nice to see you're proud Windows is made in your country. I'm proud it's not made in mine.

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (1, Troll)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795269)

Nice to see you're proud Windows is made in your country. I'm proud it's not made in mine.

That's a good comeback, but we both know your country can't make anything even remotely as good as Windows, and therefor doesn't even try.

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (2, Insightful)

mcneely.mike (927221) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795551)

rah rah, USA... pathetic.

If you consider Windows good, I've got some swamp land in Florida for you.

GOOD? GOOD? Wow. Some people never learn, do they.

Rah rah USA (1, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#20796007)

rah rah, USA... pathetic.

No, rah rah, USA, pilgrim. USA is awesome!

If you consider Windows good, I've got some swamp land in Florida for you. GOOD? GOOD? Wow. Some people never learn, do they.

Hey, I can put Windows on a machine, and watch a movie after it is installed. Can't do that with Linux, now, can you? As a developer, I have a choice of APIs for sound on Windows, and amazingly, they all work. By contrast, Linux sound is pretty rough. You've got a sound api for KDE, a sound api for Gnome, some other legacy sound apis, and none of them are as good as DirectSound and there's nothing as elegant and comprehensive as DirectMusic.

If we look at what the kernel offers, well, sure, Linux has a pretty elegant file model. But I'm aggravated that the Linux kernel lacks something basic like CopyFile, and Linux's asynch model doesn't quite stack up to the power offered by I/O completion ports.

From a user level - Linux's wireless networking is a mess compared to Windows, and even digital camera support is bad. Sure, Canon has finally upgraded to a newer standard, but older and perfectly workable cameras remain a void, but, they run ok on Windows. Linux support for Camera RAW format sucks, making it useless for any real digital photography. Of course, all of this just works on Windows.

You can go and blame manufacturers, and driver writers and whatever consumer conspiracy you want, but at the end of the day, consumers don't care. An operating system is an ecosystem, and either that ecosystem does what you want, or it doesn't, and under Linux, it doesn't, and for a lot of people.

Linux does have some advantages over Windows, I'll give you that. But, Windows has a lot of advantages of its own, as well, so many that, you can't really say that Windows is empirically bad, and in fact, for many applications, Windows is better.

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (2, Insightful)

pchan- (118053) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795363)

See, now we see what IBM is really all about, using free software to make it easier to throw more people out of work in the states. At least with Microsoft, there's developers actually working in the USA....
Funny you should say that. I've been interviewing for new jobs recently. I've been contacted about a dozen times in the past two weeks for jobs at Microsoft. However, I wasn't contacted my Microsoft. I was contacted by nice ladies and gentlemen with heavy Indian accents who work at companies that place consultants at MS. They were quick to tell me that they sponsor H1Bs. Now, I have nothing against foreign developers and worked with several very talented ones, but it's become apparent to me that MS is turning into an H1B farm, and as an American developer, I don't particularly want to work in that kind of company. But at least you're proud that their products are made in the USA. Now how about we get it made by (mostly) Americans?

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20796107)

H1B's pay taxes just like you do. The problem with outsourcing is that people in other countries pay taxes overseas and not here, which will eventually cause a lot of problems.

Also, H1B's live "here", so their cost of living is comparable to yours, which means they can't settle for a fraction of your salary like an outsourced IT worker will.

IF you're good at what you do, you don't have to fear H1B's. You should however fear outsourcing jobs overseas, which is bad for the economy and workers here.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795477)

Where people work may be important to specific requirements of some job, but there is no global concern for location across problem domains. It isn't important to coddle one of the highest-paid professions within the U.S. that doesn't require graduate or professional education. There are intelligent people capable of solving some subset of labor demands outside of the U.S. willing to work for less. This is good for them, as they naturally would enjoy a higher standard of living, and good for the owners of businesses and their customers, who wish to also make a living and have affordable products.

The only people that whine about it of course are those that aren't worth what they are paid and want to continue bottom-feeding at the upper quintile, even if the market determines that they aren't as precious and valuable as they think they are.

So yes, IBM is about ruthless business. That's what it was about in the '80s and the '40s, too. That is in fact what Microsoft is about also, which as we all know, lives fat off of the tit of Office and Windows taxes. Microsoft has been investing in India and China for many years, and you can be sure that it will continue to do so as their respective economies develop.

Re:At least Windows is made in the USA (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795961)

IBM is really all about, using free software to make it easier to throw more people out of work in the states. At least with Microsoft, there's developers actually working in the USA....

But lots are H1B's and MS is lobbying for more.
     

Exploit this... (2, Interesting)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795057)

"...by exploiting technology developed for students who are deaf or hard of hearing, as well as other accent reduction techniques."

Speaking as a guy that's 70% deaf, these "techniques" could suck the chrome off a Harley. I have to ask accented people to repeat themselves, speak slower, and have YET to find one that knows the meaning of the word 'enunciate'. Heck, I had to get transferred 3-4 times one call to find someone who knew the definition of either "deaf" OR "hearing-impaired".

I won't argue that these patents might make some cash in the short term, but I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...

Re:Exploit this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795127)

I won't argue that these patents might make some cash in the short term, but I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...

ZERO. Where else are you going to go? India is where everyone answers the phone, everyone.

Re:Exploit this... (1)

Paracelcus (151056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795311)

At my last "real" job, providing support for Linux/Windows2K on Stinkpads and servers/desktops there were several young women (very typical IMHO) who would speak so softly that I continually asked, please speak up I can't hear you, over and over again. Finally at the end of the "meeting" with the young ladies (young American, Anglo ladies) I would say "I'm sorry but I just cant make out what you said, please send me an email.

It must be noted that other people, men in particular, were perfectly understandable even the Russian and Indian engineers.

Many young women just think its genteel to speak softly and refuse to speak up to someone who is hard of hearing, and even get mad when you don't understand them!

in mother russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795361)

engineering exploits you!

Re:Exploit this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795357)

I won't argue that these patents might make some cash in the short term, but I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...

Actually, having experienced this myself:
You'll listen to questions (pre-recorded by a native english speaker) and Apu or whoever at the other end of the phone will listen for you answer, then push a button which branches to the next question. (Or the button which says "I'm sorry, I didn't understand your answer. Would you like me to repeat the question?") If you have a problem for which they have an answer, it will be perfectly clear. Otherwise, watch out. But the same thing applies to, for example, any Windows help file.

System and method (2, Funny)

Foerstner (931398) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795437)

I won't argue that these patents might make some cash in the short term, but I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...

For placing a projectile travelling at high velocity into the foot of person holding the projectile launcher, or metaphorically performing the same function on a company.

One can only hope that if IBM is granted these patents, their rigourous enforcement will make offshoring less attractive.

Re:Exploit this... (1)

SL Baur (19540) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795729)

I'm curious if they've factored in the value of consumer good will...
I will argue the same point I argued when we were discussing Microsoft's targeted advertising in the basic O/S patent. Isn't it a good thing to make outsourcing more expensive for US companies?

I hope they make the patent licensing prohibitively expensive, but even if they make licensing cheap, it will still raise the cost of outsourcing and I view that as generally a good thing.

Yet more stupid patents (2, Insightful)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795067)

Patenting business methods that are nothing more
that what used to be called 'management'.

My how management has gotten messed up over the last 30 years.

Isn't this a good thing? (3, Interesting)

Kainaw (676073) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795083)

If a few companies patent the entire outsourcing process, they will make it difficult for others to outsource. Then, there will be more domestic jobs and they'll have to work with immigration to outsource the labor here at home (where they will at least pump a little of their pay back into the economy).

Wow. (2, Funny)

similar_name (1164087) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795085)

I'm going to patent the process for getting patents.

That'll show 'em.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795687)

I'm going to patent the process for getting patents.

That'll show 'em.
If you succeed in getting that patent accepted it would be a great boon to the GDP if you would sue a member of the RIAA for violating the patent. Their lawyers would want to file prior art. Greenpeace however, would be highly upset over the number of trees this would take out etc. Production of "Santa Claus letters" when the judge said "put them right here" in Miracle on 34th Street would have nothing on this delivery.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795903)

I'll going to patent One-Click! Patenting.

anyone else notice this? (5, Funny)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795093)

If they're sucessful in holding up that first patent, that means no other companies could do it!!!! I hope they win when someone sues them or they sue someone over it. Then you'll only get cheap foreigners that don't speak english well when you call IBM support. I'm all for this one!

ibm watcher (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795099)

Yet another problem for IBM....

get
a test [cognitivelabs.com]

Hey don't worry (4, Funny)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795101)

Be happy.

In a couple of years the dollar will have fallen so far that the Indians will be off shoring to you!

 

Re:Hey don't worry (0)

corychristison (951993) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795251)

In the infamous words of Micheal Kelso [that70sshow.com] :
BURN!

Re:Hey don't worry (5, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795283)

Be happy.

In a couple of years the dollar will have fallen so far that the Indians will be off shoring to you!
Then we'll see if your Hindi is better than their English! :-)

Does this really need patent protection? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795121)

Does this really need patent protection? Do they stand to lose a profit if other companies use these methods? Or is there the possibility to license them?

Can they do this? (4, Interesting)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795125)

Specifically, can you patent a business practice, or a business model?

I can understand patenting technologies that lead up to it, but patenting the whole thing? I have no idea if that's within the scope of a patent...

Re:Can they do this? (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795177)

That's fairly irrelevant. What matters is whether the patent office will grant the patent. After that, it's simply a matter of waving the patent around and threatening people with expensive litigation.

This is why patents suck these days: the vast majority do nothing to improve society, and are merely giant clubs in lawsuit wars.

Re:Can they do this? (1)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795665)

Hey, IBM might require astronomical sums to license the patent, making outsourcing no longer feasible. It's their master plan to save the US labor market while being able to outsource themselves!

Re: Can they do this? (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795187)

Specifically, can you patent a business practice, or a business model?
Yes. The US Congress streamlined patent litigation by setting up a special court to cover it, and that court immediately set about ruling that everything under the sun is patentable.

Re: Can they do this? (4, Funny)

ls -la (937805) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795245)

Yes. The US Congress streamlined patent litigation by setting up a special court to cover it, and that court immediately set about ruling that everything under the sun is patentable.
That gives me a great idea. Hold on while I patent sunlight.

Re:Can they do this? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795195)

Specifically, can you patent a business practice, or a business model?
It depends. In the sane world that most people inhabit, no of course you can't. In the US, yes you can.

Re:Can they do this? (1)

jbengt (874751) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795705)

Specifically, what you can patent is a business Process.
IANAL, YMMV, etc.

Re:Can they do this? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795909)

I have no idea if that's within the scope of a patent...

That hasn't stopped other bullshit patents. (Hmmm, can I patent bullshit?)
         

Nope. (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795159)

I checked the link, and this isn't coming from The Onion.

Time for the Revolution! (3, Insightful)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795169)

My ancestors fought in order to have equitable pay for work, decent working conditions, and something approaching a society where there is a reasonable middle-class.

This is the kind of thing that seeks to have the U.S. be like a third-world nation. A small group of people who control most of the wealth and everyone else not much more than slaves.

I for one, will not stand for it. I WILL rise up. I WILL start the fucking revolution. It is time for us American citizens to wake up from our slumber. We need to hang these fuckers. Every last one of them.

They have no loyalty to anything but the money in their own pockets. The rest of the worlds people should do the same in their countries. If they won't, then that is up to them to live in squalor.

I say, No Way! Not here! My ancestors didn't die in Steel Mills and Coal Mines etc. in order for the few to be permitted to take everything away from the many.

It is time to rise up! Time to start the revolution. This MUST NOT be permitted.

Only cowards will rest on their laurels while everything is stolen away from us like this. This is MY COUNTRY and I WILL FIGHT for it.

WAKE UP PEOPLE! THIS IS PURE EVIL!

Tear it down. Tear it all down. Time for a house cleaning. Time to teach the moneyed elite that we will not stand for it.

Don't give me any crappy economic arguments about comparative advantage and such. If the only comparative advantage is that one workforce has rights to decent working condition and decent wages and one doesn't, then fuck economics.

Take these people in their fancy business suits that care not one shit for you and other American Citizens. Hang them!

Rise up! Rise up! Don't be a coward! Don't sit idly by while you are robbed of everything your forebears fought and died for.

Wake up people of America! Wake up!

Fight for your rights! Fight to death if necessary! Do not allow this wholesale theft of the American Dream!

Re:Time for the Revolution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795247)

Yes, God forbid that the living conditions of some poor soul in a third world country are improved because they get paid for what in America would be a minimum wage job that would not put an American in the middle class that you are planning to fight for.

You miss the point! (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795275)

That's the kind of argument they want you to believe. Well, if we pay these people over here this low-wage that no one in America would take, then we're making their life better without hurting anyone.

BULLSHIT!

It's a freakin' race to the bottom!

Let's do this. Make there be a world-wide minimum wage. World-wide standards for working conditions. World-wide standards for working hours. World-wide standards for medical care. World-wide standards for retirement programs.

Now, you can move the jobs to where there is a "Comparative Advantage"! Oh wait, there it none now is there?

Race to the bottom. That's all it is.

How much can you line your own pockets whilst forcing everyone else to live in squalor.

Maybe you accept that in India or wherever the fuck you live, but, we're not going to accept it here.

We're not going to sit idly by while a "Caste" system is created whereby only the few have any decent sort of living conditions and everyone else lives in the sewer.

I say againg. RISE UP! RISE UP! RISE UP!

Stand and be counted! Be a true American. Be brave. Be strong.

Do not let the few steal everything away from the many and force you to live like an animal.

Don't stand for it. EVER!

Re:You miss the point! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795377)

So you want to organize a "Caste" system where the US has all the money and everyone else lives in squalor? The irony in your post... In the end, whoever is more competitive and more committed will win, that's how it always works. Advocating the killing of people who keep the US on top is hardly helping your case though.

Yeah, right! (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795599)

The people who came up with this patent ARE NOT the people who keep America on top.

In fact, the point is not to "keep America on top".

What keeps America Great, is the fact that we strive for a society where everyone has a reasonable standard of living and can live with a modicum of dignity.

All other nations could be like this too! Their people can insist upon it. If a lot of people must die, then so be it.

Chains find only willing wrists.

I for one will not allow myself to be enslaved. I will die first...taking as many of the fuckers with me as I can. At least then there will be a few less greedy fuckers in the world and everyone else just might have a chance.

If everyone felt like this, wouldn't tolerate this shit, it would end.

If all you can do is think of yourself then you deserve not the respect, support and protection of the many.

I grew up in inner-city Canton, Ohio in the '70's and '80's when all the factories closed and the manufacturing jobs were "outsourced". There was better than 30% unemployment. That city has never recovered.

People lost all hope. They lost all dignity.

I bought the line. Educate yourself. Be a "knowledge worker". Move into the information age.

I worked hard to teach myself software development, amongst other skills. I worked a full-time job from the time I was 15. I served my country and my people in the armed forces. I've been productive. I've made a lot of money for every employer I've had (millions).

What do I have to show for it? A country increasingly racing to the bottom. Treating it's own citizens (they don't even call them citizens anymore...they call them "consumers" and "tax payers") with a total lack of dignity and respect.

I've got nothing against the people of other nations. In fact, I have the utmost respect for them. I want them to be treated with dignity and respect too!

Don't you get it! There are a small segment of the world's population who think it's their right to control everything. To control our lives. To be the sole beneficiaries of all our efforts!

I say, "NO"! Not now! Not Ever!

I, for one WILL NOT ALLOW IT!

Maybe they'll put a bullet in my brain for standing up to them. So be it!

I've fought for everything in this life and I'll continue to fight.

You should too!

Re:Yeah, right! (2, Insightful)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795887)

Listen kid, if you want to stand up for your rights, then by all means vote with your wallet and effect change in society. But the moment you raise your hands against someone else, and that includes not only all the people you wish to kill but also the ones you would coax into helping you, then that is when you lose all rights, credibility, and possibly your life too. In case you want to answer, please avoid all those meaningless one-liners.

Odd. (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20796067)

I find your belief that one should not be willing to stand up and fight for what is right odd. It is what this country was founded upon.

You're saying, that no matter what, I have no right to arm myself and defend myself against those who would enslave me.

You are wrong. All humans reserve that right for themselves.

I would prefer things not come to that. Unfortunately, it seems more and more lately like that is where things are headed. There is an incredible lack of respect for basic human rights and dignity arising in this nation.

We have fascists in power who would question the very meaning of our constitutional rights and attempt to claim that we do not have the rights it explicitly reserves for us.

I hope that we can vote these people out. I hope that we can return to a direction that keeps the dignity of human endeavor above the profits of the few.

Should this not be the case, I will be will willing to fight and die to attempt to ensure these rights for my children (and yours).

Does that mean I would like this to happen? Absolutely not! But, I WILL NOT rule it out. I will not simply say, "Oh, well, there is nothing I can do."

People don't like this kind of talk because they want to be able to cheat and steal and repress and oppress with impunity and have there be no consequences except for perhaps, "Bad Press" (or maybe they'll need to change their corporate image/name).

Don't forget, the sole purpose for the existence of a corporation is to deny personal responsibility.

I understand that this is necessary in order to allow people to pull capital for the creation of businesses that benefit society whilst turning a profit for the investors.

Don't forget though, that it must be a two-way street. In order for investors to deserve the protection of the people that allows them to invest without risking personal ruin, they have a duty to create and environment conducive to dignified living for the citizens of said society.

I'm always taken aback by those who complain endlessly about the taxes they must pay, but, then forget about the "Law Enforcement" you speak of (and military, etc).

You have no problem inflicting violence on others as long as it is done by proxy (law enforcement, military, etc). You feel that because you've "made it" everyone else should piss off and be thankful to wallow in the sewage.

I don't think of things that way.

Call me an idealist. Call me a zealot. Whatever.

I believe in something besides lining my pockets.

Re:Time for the Revolution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795265)

My ancestors fought in order to have equitable pay for work, decent working conditions, and something approaching a society where there is a reasonable middle-class.

The people in the developing world of China, India, and Latin America are merely doing now what our ancestors did back then. They are taking their rightful piece of the world pie. And as they get richer they will fight for equitable pay, decent working conditions, and a middle class. In doing so they will become more expensive labor. And they won't listen to your revolution talk, because they see that the worst of the worst of American poverty would be considered well off in their part of the world.

If you want to fight a revolution, fight against that sense of American entitlement you have. Fight for educational opportunities, and open your mind to be flexible in a world without borders. You will never be able to build a wall around us or go back to an industrial past. That aint ever gonna happen.

Re:Time for the Revolution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795267)

Relax,

They won't get the patent. The politics of granting it would cause the revolution you advocate and most of us agree.

Organize. (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795281)

I completely agree with your sentiment but without the wholesale slaughter. What you really want is transparency so you can ridicule or sue those in power into compliance with your wishes. Things like pervasive decentralized video recording (as in everyone has a mini-camcorder that they don't even think about woven into their clothes until they - and their camera - witness something like police brutality) with the emphasis on decentralized meaning you don't share your footage unless you want to. Also the World Wide Web is truly one of the most disruptive technologies to emerge in all of history. Use it. Organize around sites like Open Secrets [opensecrets.org] and pursue all the Information you can through Freedom of Information Acts to root out corruption. Expose those who are bought off by special interest groups. Basically, exercise the freedoms you currently enjoy and truly participate in democracy now to prevent those freedoms from becoming a relic of history. And if you are unfairly curtailed then shoot the bastards.

No wholesale slaughter. (2, Interesting)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795371)

I didn't intend to imply there should be wholesale slaughter. What I meant to convey is that these actions are meant to undermine everything valuable about a civil society where people have a right to dignity, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Those who would work to deprive us of these rights, must be stopped. With complete and utter finality!

Re:No wholesale slaughter. (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795385)

I agree.

Re:Time for the Revolution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795333)

AMEN! I live in a somewhat poor country, and here we have TONS of outsourced jobs. I tried taking one, but turned it down because: workers get paid 75 dollars a week on 10 work days (which is a lot, compared to the $45 dlls. a week average salary. They get fooled into thinking they're in a clean business, doing an honorable job, but in reality it's nothing but learning to bow down to new overlords. All so that some corporate swine can fill hi pockets.

Also, they purposefully get the kids fresh out of school: the ones whose English is the most horrible! The less experienced, which can be payed the least amount of money! It's creating a lot of wealth, but it's also cheapening the lifestyle, so that the ones who were poor are becoming poorer, the wealthy wealthier, and the middle class are nothing but corporate slaves. And in the meantime, the workers keep getting fired when they have sometime in the business, to prevent raises in salary, and yet more incompetent kids take those jobs.

Not just the USA, but the whole world needs to come up with proper arrangements so that we all can benefit from international trade, not be pawns for big companies. This is screwing up the whole world.

EXACTLY! (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795439)

This is the point I'm trying to make. With all my militant talk what I'm trying to say is that ALL PEOPLE OF THE WORLD must not allow everything to be a race to the bottom where only the few benefit.

I feel a great compassion for those who must live in such conditions. I want to help them. I want them to have decent jobs with a living wage.

But, turning the U.S. into another country where the few control all the wealth and power isn't going to accomplish that.

That's why, if necessary, I will fight. Hopefully, my vote and my words can prevent such from becoming necessary. But, I want the "powerful" and "wealthy" to know, that if you back us against the wall, we will take it all away. We will not let you turn us into slaves.

We need to work to have a strong middle-class where the dignity of human beings is respected. We need to work to extend that dignity to all citizens of the world. Those, in any country, who would enrich themselves at the expense of their fellow humans, who would treat their countrymen and fellow human beings as cattle, must be held accountable at ANY cost.

Re:EXACTLY! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795647)

The U.S. is a country where the majority of the wealth is held by a few. It always has been, like every other nation-state before it and since. There are more people than there are resources.

A global "minimum wage" would work out to be a tiny fraction of the current U.S. minimum wage. The global health care standards and all of the other nonsense you whine about would be nonexistent, because they are not affordable across the entire population of the planet. It would be the "race to the bottom" you opine about constantly.

Your problem, in essence, is that you expect other countries to adopt a standard of living congruent to that of the United States. That is not sustainable for them. They cannot afford it, you see, and if they could they would be doing so already.

You could kill off everyone in the United States that holds more than a million dollars in assets, even seizing them, and improve absolutely nothing.

> That's why, if necessary, I will fight. Hopefully, my vote and my words can prevent such from becoming necessary.

You're a fat Internet tough guy. You're too much of a listless wanker to "fight." You'll just continue posting violent diatribes to the Internet, espousing your own ignorance of elementary subjects.

Believe what you want. (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795727)

You're a fat Internet tough guy. You're too much of a listless wanker to "fight." You'll just continue posting violent diatribes to the Internet, espousing your own ignorance of elementary subjects.

Keep telling yourself that!

Re:Believe what you want. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795807)

I don't care what you do, tubby. So if you go out and kill some unsuspecting person that just happened to be more successful than you (i.e. went to a university), I won't be impressed. No doubt someone in Bumfuck, Ohio will be forced to listen to your insipid babble, in that mildly-retarded Midland drawl the inhabitants of Ohio speak with, as they jiggle your fat ass into the back of the police car, but none of the rest of the world will notice.

However the odds are that like every other Internet tough guy you'll just continue to posture before people that are better-educated than you, until someone reports the twenty or thirty TOS violations (threatening people with violence, for example) you have accumulated to your service provider, and then you'll be posting your angry rants from dial-up. After the first visit from law enforcement, you'll start a newsletter or whatever it is that idiots with stupid views do when they overstay their welcome.

Re:Believe what you want. (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795899)

You truly are a moron, ANONYMOUS COWARD!

Re:EXACTLY! (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795755)

Nice to see ANONYMOUS COWARD posting telling someone else how they will never fight!

What I say, I say under my REAL NAME. Not under some pseudonym or, worse yet, ANONYMOUS COWARD.

If you don't like what I have to say, look me up and tell me ANONYMOUS COWARD!

Re:Time for the Revolution! (3, Funny)

Kamineko (851857) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795355)

Lazlow: "Let's go over here to line 4, hello caller, what's your name?"
Jeff: "Jeff from Rockford."
Lazlow: "Hello Jeff, what's up?"
Jeff: "I want to tell you and your listeners about a once-in-a-lifetime
            chance to make a difference. There's a rally tomorrow evening at
            the park. Starting at 7. Although we'll be painting banners and
            singing songs and all day to prepare for it. Then, when tens-of-
            thousands have gathered in the park, we're gonna march onto Town
            Hall. Lazlow, the people have spoken! And they have said 'no, not
            in my town!' So folks, if you're listening, and want to make a
            difference, get yourself down to the park, and prepare to bring
            democracy back to the people."
Lazlow: "So...what's this rally about, Jeff?"
Jeff: "It's about people standing up and being counted. It's about the
            future. It's about telling those morons in the suits 'no thanks!
            Not in my town! Not while I have a breath in my body and hope in
            my soul! I will not, I cannot let this pass!'"
Lazlow: "Let what pass?"
Jeff: "It's about grabbing the town by the balls and saying 'listen son,
            either put-up, or shut up! No more Mr. Nice-guy. No more easy
            solutions for difficult problems!' It's about what it means to be
            an American. It's about giving something back."
Lazlow: "Giving what back, Jeff?"
Jeff: "Hope! Dreams! Belief!"
Lazlow: "Belief in what, I mean, look Jeff, I..I admire your passion,
                really I do, but...what will people be marching for? Wh..what's
                your rally about!?"
Jeff: "It's about justice, Mr. Low! A chance to shine and make a
            difference! About thousands of people walking side-by-side as
            brother marchers. Only one thing on their minds - the chance to
            make a difference! Bring your friends! Nothing shows a man how
            much you mean to him more than the chance to walk together for
            justice! Bring your kids! They can paint signs, and we'll even
            have a face-painter, and a vegen bar-be-que. Bring your parents,
            dude, even the elderly care about tomorrow!"
Lazlow: "I understand that, it sounds like a great rally, but w..we're
                not a political station and you haven't really told us why
                people should do this...what is it about?!?"
Jeff: "Look..look, do you wanna help or not??"
Lazlow: "I don't know what I'm helping!"
Jeff: "You're helping America! What kind of patriot are you? It's a
            rally!!"
Lazlow: "You don't know what it's for, do you!?!"
Jeff: "It's for hope. Please come, everybody! It'll be real good!"
Lazlow: "Alright, you fight the power, brother!"

Re:Time for the Revolution! (1)

ThePawArmy (952965) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795359)

It's not wholesale theft, it's a fire sale!

Re:Time for the Revolution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795455)

I agree with you. The only good CEO is a dead CEO.

Fight for your rights! Fight to death if necessary!

This is why calls for revolt fail. Because unlike our ancestors, we are no longer willing to die to secure a better life for someone else. Even calls to make things better for our children don't work when so many middle class folks haven't bothered to have any children.

Would you gather arms and march on Washington, knowing that you will be slain by the Army, in the hope that your sacrifice will encourage even more to march and revolt, so that eventually things will be better for your neighbors and your neighbor's children?

Nah, I wouldn't either. And I'm one of the few that agree with you.

What must not be permitted? (2, Insightful)

Infonaut (96956) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795471)

It is time to rise up! Time to start the revolution. This MUST NOT be permitted.

If you're upset that these big companies are seeking business method patents for processes that may or may not even pan out in the marketplace, I'm puzzled. The method patents will only allow certain companies to use certain methods to perform some of their business functions offshore. This will allow them to keep others from using the same carefully defined methods, or will force other companies to license those methods. Either way, outsourcing is no longer the Soup-to-Nuts-Slam-Dunk Solution many companies thought it would be.

If you're upset about outsourcing, I wonder how you run your Open Source consulting firm. After all, a huge chunk of the software you're dealing with was created by people in countries other than the United States, and I'd hazard a guess that most of the work done on those programs wasn't done in North-East Ohio. In essence, you've outsourced millions of hours worth of work to the people who developed the software you're using. You, as a provider of technical services, are able to compete more effectively because of their labor.

If you were truly serious about being a mercantist [wikipedia.org] , you wouldn't be leveraging so much labor from outside the US in your own business.

Finally, this statement is bizarre:

If the only comparative advantage is that one workforce has rights to decent working condition and decent wages and one doesn't, then fuck economics.

The Indian economy has taken off after decades in the doldrums. There is a rapidly developing middle class in China for the first time. The United States has a tremendously powerful economy that is extremely efficient at creating new markets. Do you seriously contend that the world would be better off without global trade? Or is it just that you feel entitled, as an American, to live in a world free of competition? We got rich first, so screw everyone else?

Explain to me... (1)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795667)

...what does moving jobs to places with little to no protection for the dignity of workers funded by the demand in an economy where there are such protections lead?

Tell me, where does it lead?

It devalues those protections and undermines them until they become meaningless.

Who wins? Who loses?

Does the Indian or Chinese worker win? I think not.

Does the American worker win? I think not.

Does the International Capitalist with no loyalty to anyone or anything win? You Bet!

Yeah, I'm all for supporting that!

Re:Explain to me... (1)

Shihar (153932) | more than 6 years ago | (#20796051)

I am pretty sure that you can ask your average Chinese factory worker who has gone from a protection economy that was literally starving him to death, or an Indian white collard worker who now lives something that would be considered middle class by American standards if they are 'winning', and they will say hell yes. India doesn't long for the 'good old days' of their protectionist economy that kept everyone equally poor. China sure as hell doesn't long for the glorious days of the people's revolution where over 20 million people died to starvation.

So yes, you can rattle on 'the revolution, man'... or you could actually go visit one of these places and ask the people if they have gone from accepting that life will be miserable until they day they die early, or if they are now hopeful for a better future. God forbid Americans maybe slow down their rapid wealth creation as 2 billion other poor people get a tiny taste of the pie. Yeah, what we REALLY need is global trade tarrifs. That way, we can wall off those poor suckers in the developing world back into their shit hole, and watch as our own economy rapidly collapses under the realization that building .2 cent widgets can't be done at $12 / hour. You really sing of a bright future. History has pretty well taught that nation that go down the protectionist rout see nothing be abject misery at worst, and a stalling of living standards at best.

Re:Time for the Revolution! (1)

HexaByte (817350) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795511)

Sergeant HexaByte reporting for duty, Colonel!

Re:Time for the Revolution! (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795983)

This is the kind of thing that seeks to have the U.S. be like a third-world nation. A small group of people who control most of the wealth and everyone else not much more than slaves.

I would like to point out that the laws of economics (Adam Smith, Ricardo, etc.) do not guarantee a vibrant middle class. Right-wing economists imply it does, but it simply does not. They fib.
       

Laugh, its funny (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795183)

This is a joke, right?

That was filed from India! (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795215)

What is more galling is that the entire patent application was punched up by grunts in Bangalore. Would very much like to see a headline like, "IBM replaces CEO with Muniyandi Appannakaruppandi Joshi, a graduate of Aiyyappa Institute of Mangagement Sciences (second class, registered with Govt of India), for one tenth of the salary."

Prior Art? (3, Insightful)

haus (129916) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795253)

Nothing here (on the surface) seems to breaking new ground here, even in combination. Now if the system worked as it should, this patent would not be granted. Or, it were to be granted, it would be set-aside in a challenge due to prior art.

But with the Patent Office in its usual dysfunctional form and with IBM sitting on top of a team of patent lawyers that would not blush at arguing about IBM being the inventor of the wheel. It should be yet another step towards maintaining the status quo.

Neat Calculator (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795277)

I entered "Samuel Palmisano" and it suggested several million Dalits that would be suitable as replacements.

Accent reduction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20795337)

Something I've noticed - sometimes I call tech support, and the person on the other end sounds American at first, but then I can hardly understand them and nothing they say makes sense. So, accent reduction + gibberish = gibberish.

BUZZ off. morons (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795391)

10.000 year old "trade" concept is being tried to patent.

prior art ? a few here :

- ANY trade that buys finished goods from some source and sells to other.

- SLAVERY

- ANY action that you buy intermediate parts from somewhere and produce a finished product somewhere else.

ibm, you really, really suffered a great deal of credibility and charisma in many circles. you shouldnt employ such morons with such 'innovative ideas'.

Too late - try on-shoring (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795417)

With the fall in the US Dollar, off-shoring is dead. They should try patenting on-shoring. That involves hiring Mexicans to do the work in San Diego...

Didn't RTFA (1)

torkus (1133985) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795465)

Ok, so I didn't RTFA and mainly read just the headline. /trollbait probably

Anyhow...how is this a patentable idea? Does IBM think they're the first company to open a campus somewhere that has cheaper labor than their main campus?

I think this will get thrown out for "obvious" or "prior art" ... art...meh.

Re:Didn't RTFA (1)

goober1473 (714415) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795601)

Errm, didn't the UK cotton industry outsource a lot of work to India in 17-1800s? And anyway, isn't this some kind of dirivative to the entire Adam Smith "open market" thing?

What's next - patenting suicide methods? (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795853)

Devices for shooting oneself in the foot? "A Method for Removal of the Nose as an Expression of Disdain for the Face?"

Exploitation? (0, Offtopic)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 6 years ago | (#20795911)

by exploiting technology developed for students who are deaf or hard of hearing, as well as other accent reduction techniques


Call it what you will, but know this; if you live in a 3rd world nation and have a hearing and/or speech handicap, your economic chances for a quality life are next to none! This technology will provide employment opportunities that they would otherwise not have. In a 3rd world nation, this could mean the difference between being malnourished and having a comfortable place to sleep at night.

I really wish would some people would stop looking at employment as a form of exploitation. Why not look at the positive aspects of a developing nation. In other words, you should compare their quality of life before, and after. While working in a factory may be slave labor and beneath us, ask your self why they still work there. I'm willing to bet it's because they hate working in the farm plowing fields for even less money.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always placed value on any system or method that helps people raise their standard of living. I don't compare my standard of living with someone else. What I *do* look for is if *their* standard of living has improved. That is what's important. Too look at it differently would be ignorance and class-guilt.
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