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MS Awarded "Best Campaigner Against OOXML"

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the pull-gun-aim-at-foot-pull-trigger dept.

Microsoft 190

HansF writes "Microsoft itself is the surprise winner of the FFII's Kayak Prize 2007, offered by the FFII in its call for rejection of Microsoft's OOXML standards proposal. The software monopolist is honored as 'Best Campaigner against OOXML Standardization.' FFII president Pieter Hintjens explains, 'We could never have done this by ourselves. By pushing so hard to get OOXML endorsed, even to the point of loading the standards boards in Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, and beyond, Microsoft showed to the world how poor their format is. Good standards just don't need that kind of pressure. All together, countries made over ten thousands technical comments, a new world record for an ISO vote. Microsoft made a heroic — and costly — effort to discredit their own proposal, and we're sincerely grateful to them.'" If Microsoft doesn't send a representative to claim their 2500-Euro prize at the FFII General Assembly in November, FFII will give the money to Peruvian earthquake relief.

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190 comments

Y'know.... (5, Funny)

Cleon (471197) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818275)

In addition, MS has helped IT security improve more than any other company.

Re:Y'know.... (5, Funny)

Eevee1 (1147279) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818289)

And their CEO is a sane, rational man that is well respected by us of Slashdot.

Re:Y'know.... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818507)

Which one is he? The sweaty one or the idea thief?

Re:Y'know.... (2, Funny)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819621)

The sweaty one, he's currently getting a degree in idea theft. He failed his last exam so he copied his classmate (he'll pass in no time)

Chairstorm at Microsoft (4, Funny)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819157)

I'm imagining a hailstorm of flying chairs in an office somewhere.

Best Chair Thrower (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20820585)

Maybe they'll introduce that award/competition one year. Maybe they'll release a "Microsoft Decathlon" special edition as well.

Re:Y'know.... (3, Funny)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818501)

I think they should be given the "Most Improved Award". It's not really an award, it just says you don't suck as much as you used to.

Re:Y'know.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819689)

Like winning the 'Special Olympics'?

True... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818591)

Who would've known the true evil potential of distributed malware networks without Microsoft?

Or why simplicity is such an important element of security (vs. 8,000 different file security attributes and complex kludg^W special case interactions)?

Or how bad an idea it is to put things on the network that were never designed to be there?

Re:True... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20820465)

Obviously the companies in question didn't. Dipshit.

Re:Y'know.... (1)

charlieman (972526) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819481)

And it has keeped lots of chair companies away from bankruptcy.

I wouldn't be too smug (5, Insightful)

earthforce_1 (454968) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818313)

They nearly won, and it isn't over yet - there is another vote coming up in Februrary.

Vista makes me smile. (5, Interesting)

Erris (531066) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818855)

I don't think the ISO organization will allow M$ to damage their reputation that way. The OOXML vote is an international scandal and the people who count are not going to forget it. The whole business has already been damaging to ISO and they would do better to bury ooxml.

Just the same, I don't feel smug about how easily they damaged ISO. When I want to feel smug, I contemplate Vista's failure and what that means for the whole next generation of M$ crap and lock in.

Vista is one of the best things that ever happened to free software. It's later, more restrictive more expensive and less functional than anyone could possibly have imagined. There is zero enthusiasm for it and a plenty of rejection.

shills make me smile. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818963)

hi twitter [slashdot.org] . Trolling again? [slashdot.org]

Re:shills make me smile. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819597)

Ah, each time I see a link to that post, I regret to have started it by "Well, they clearly are"... such is life...

Thx man. Will twitter==erris be the next /. meme ?

Re:Vista makes me smile. (4, Insightful)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819567)

Just the same, I don't feel smug about how easily they damaged ISO. When I want to feel smug, I contemplate Vista's failure and what that means for the whole next generation of M$ crap and lock in.

I'm not sure why it looks "easily" to corrupt ISO to you. It did take a lot of effort behind the scenes, give them credit where it's due.

Re:Vista makes me smile. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819633)

In Soviet Russia, using sockpuppets [slashdot.org] to get around your deserved moderation [slashdot.org] actually pays off.

Re:Vista makes me smile. (5, Interesting)

Technician (215283) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820001)

Vista is one of the best things that ever happened to free software. It's later, more restrictive more expensive and less functional than anyone could possibly have imagined. There is zero enthusiasm for it and a plenty of rejection.

One of the best parts is WGA. Microsoft doesn't have the users who build their custom machines, but decide against the cost of the MS retail boxed version taxes. Spending $600-1200 on a custom box build soon finds the cost of an OS and Office suite a good part of building that can no longer be migrated from the old box. Alternatives to expensive restrictive software are now part of the cost decision.

I used to upgrade hardware re-using my legal copy of Windows 98. XP and Vista have ended that process. XP now simply means it is residing on the oldest slowest machine in the house as it is not upgradable (without playing mother-may-I with Microsoft who may say no way). Vista is the same dead end. I am test driving Ubuntu Dapper Drake (the long term support distro), Fiesty Fawn (newer but has issues), and Freespire (out of the box rich Web browsing with codecs and flash) on my new home built hardware. XP will retire on the hardware it arrived on. In it's lifetime it only got a hard drive repalcement due to hardware failure and a memory upgrade. It won't be moving on to a Core 2 Duo box simply due to the EULA, vendor hardware specific recovery disc, and WGA to enforce it.

Thank You Microsoft for closing the door on software re-use, right of first sale, and encouraging me to expand my horizons. I have learned the advantages first hand of not runing with administrator privilages, Software not vendor tied to hardware, open standards, community developement, GNU GPL, and no longer dealing with a per seat restrictive EULA.

Thank You Red Hat, Caldera (pre SCO), Novell SUSE, Mozilla, Sun Microsystems, IBM, ODF, EFF, Adobe, and everyone else who made this possible.

Re:Vista makes me smile. (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#20821067)

I have to ask... What issues does Feisty Fawn have that Dapper Drake didn't? I found it to be solid and usable, and I ran it on 3 systems at once. (Work, home, and home 'server'.) I ran Dapper on 2 of them prior to that, and while it was stable, I find Feisty more useful. (Eyecandy, packages Drake doesn't have in the repos, etc.)

I've got Gutsy installed at home now, and the 'server' off (just using the desktop for that as well), but Feisty at work still... SO looking forward next month to when I can justify installing Gutsy at work. Compiz works a LOT better from what I've seen at home. Very solid on Intel graphics, at least.

As for Windows being stuck to the original box... I think your fear of calling MS is unfounded. The phone people are tools and getting your registration updated is as simple as saying 'This is the only hardware this OS is installed on.' when they ask. Even if it's not. I've converted a ton of systems (worked at a shop) and never had WGA fail because of this. (Have had it fail straight out of the box, never installed on another system, though.) Generally if it's been long enough since the first install, you don't even have to call them, the internet registration will simply work.

Re:Vista makes me smile. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20820837)

Well said Sir, I agree wholeheartedly! :)

Re:I wouldn't be too smug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818897)

Yes, the BRM in Geneva will be interesting.

Unfortunately I think they'll win too unless IBM/Sun start playing dirty too. The reason I think they'll win is that OOXML (DIS29500) only needs a few countries to change their votes [iso-vote.com] .

Comments (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818343)

I wonder how many of those comments are duplicates. Oh well, as long as they're technical comments upon which constructive changes can be made then they are a good thing. It's a learning process.

Re:Comments (2, Insightful)

counterfriction (934292) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819653)

I think the sheer volume alone is illustrative of the weight of the outcry against it.

Re:Comments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819781)

> constructive changes can be made

The standard was written by ECMA with the (MS) requirement that it be 'what MS Office 2007 does'. In fact Office doesn't actually implement the standard, but nevermind, the standard won't/can't be changed regardless of the comments because MS will _not_ change Office 2007.

MS Office 2007 files are what they are, the ECMA document sort-of descrbes that, and that is what MS wants ISO to be. They won't fix the standard, they won't fix the program, they will fix the vote.

Re:Comments (2, Interesting)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819913)

I wonder how many of those comments are duplicates.


I think duplicate comments would be even worse than unique ones. If a huge number of the reviewers see the same failings in the spec, then obviously the spec is clearly broken and should have been worked on more before even being submitted, much less before being considered for a fast-track approval.

Thanks (1)

gQuigs (913879) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818351)

...but this is not enough! Please MS step it up!

You bastards !!! (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818353)

that kind of humor makes one go jump with joy for having chosen IT field to work in

Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (5, Informative)

tech10171968 (955149) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818393)

I've already started seeing .docx format attachments in my email at the office. Never mind the fact that my office is nearly 100% Linux/FOSS (except for the sole Windows machine running proprietary apps requiring outdated API's); I'd figured that since the vast majority of companies I've seen haven't (yet) started to migrate to Office 2007 then maybe sending .docx fils to everyone might not be such a smart move. For now we simply kick these emails back along with a friendly reminder that we don't do .docx or OOXML here, and will never accept anyhting in that format. Microsoft says the 'O' in 'OOXML' stands for "open". My ass...

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1, Interesting)

Mattintosh (758112) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818557)

I opened a .docx file in a text editor the other day, just to see what it looked like.

It was plain ol' HTML with a funky DOCTYPE (with a -strict.dtd in it, so maybe, finally, MS is gonna support strict compliance to something).

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (4, Informative)

Shados (741919) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818743)

thats an Office 2003 doc XML (not quite the same thing). You'd have had to unzip the docx first if it was actually one, and then would have a crap ton of files and stuff... which I beleive is similar-ish to the "competition".

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (4, Informative)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819117)

thats an Office 2003 doc XML (not quite the same thing). You'd have had to unzip the docx first if it was actually one, and then would have a crap ton of files and stuff... which I beleive is similar-ish to the "competition".
Not necessarily. There is a plug-in for Office 2003 - provided by Microsoft [microsoft.com] to certain organizations[1] - that allows Office 2003 to produce OOXML natively through the normal methods - i.e. more natively supported than PDF and ODF.

Also, I believe Office 2003 uses a normal ".xml" extension [filext.com] [2] for its version of OOXML, while OOXML from Office 2007 uses the normal Office extensions with an appended "x" or "m" (the "m" is if you have macros embedded) - e.g. ".docx" and ".docm" [filext.com] .

[1] Last I knew it was not available publically, however, a Google search [google.com] turned it up (3rd result).
[2] Search for "OFFICE" and you'll find a number of "OFFICE11" paths.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (2, Informative)

garnetlion (786722) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819301)

The plug-in is only for Windows machines. Mac users are SOL.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (4, Informative)

Shados (741919) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819321)

That plugin is for Office 2003 and XP to use OOXML natively, correct. It works quite well, it IS available publicly, and its quite commonly deployed (well, relative to the amount of environments using 2007, not in absolute terms).

And the Office 2003 using XML is for a totally different format, which was also available in a previous version of office (though with less features), which is literally the Office 2003 format but in XML instead of binary, and is a totally different deal than the docx format from 2007, and existed years before Office 2007 came out. It is, for example, the format that is often used to generate Office documents through XSLT. It was used a "long" time ago, and I personally still use that format since it is simpler to generate document with for internal, short term purposes compared to docx, since it doesn't require the additional operation of putting the files together and zipping (which isn't a big deal, but its nice to be able to simply invoke an XSLT processor with no additional steps).

The plugin above will use the virtually the same docx format, used the same way, as Office 2007.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

Musrum (779646) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819329)

Nice plug-in. Unless you have a corporate security model that uses "protected" worksheets in Excel.
If so, then MS has just opened you up to any lee7 Hax0r that has access to powerful tools such as WinZip and Notepad.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (2, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820549)

You could always bypass "protected" worksheets in excel, most other spreadsheets would simply ignore the "protection" when opening the file.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820141)

It was plain ol' HTML with a funky DOCTYPE (with a -strict.dtd in it, so maybe, finally, MS is gonna support strict compliance to something).
According to their 6000 page spec, the only thing it can be in compliance with is to the Office 2007 implementation.

The medium is the message (5, Insightful)

DeepBlueDiver (166057) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818627)

I'd figured that since the vast majority of companies I've seen haven't (yet) started to migrate to Office 2007 then maybe sending .docx fils to everyone might not be such a smart move.
Each time MS releases a new Office version, many corporate assholes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H managers set a policy of using the new format on any communication. They don't care if you can't read the content, in fact, they hope you cant.

Their message is "I am cool. I use the newest stuff. My dick is bigger than yours".

Re:The medium is the message (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818675)

You reveal yourself as a 60 year old virgin with the "^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H"

Re:The medium is the message (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819403)

"Their message is "I am cool. I use the newest stuff. My dick is bigger than yours"."

However, we all know that the real reason why they're using the newest stuff is because it's actually smaller.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818813)

Speaking as a (reasonably) small business owner myself, I would be highly upset if my 'IT guy' if such a smug email were sent out. Think of how that must sound the recipient - here, I've sent some requested some piece of information, only to be rebuffed because of some anonymous IT guy's personal crusade I neither have knowledge of and care not a wit for? This sort of attitude, which I unfortunately see applauded here on slashdot, seems the very thing leading to so much contention between virtually every department and IT.

IT's job, as I see it, is to just make the technical stuff work under the hood so my team of engineers can focus on, you know, engineering. The same goes for whatever business you care to run - without any sort of condescension, I best compare IT to wait staff. Now, I have the utmost respect for wait staff - my sister is a bartender, in fact, so I well aware of the miserable sorts of treatment inflicted upon them by the public - but when I dine, it is the wait staff's responsibility to translate my requests to the cooks in the kitchen. This does not demean the person who waits upon me in the least - rather, it is his job, for which he is being well compensated by both tip and wage. If I prefer my steak well done, please prepare it so even if individual preference and general consensus is rare.

In our instance, we run a very mixed, very expensive bag of hardware and software: chemical engineering modelling and simulation programs on the Mac, assorted number crunchers on AIX, custom lab software on linux and office productivity apps on Windows. We do this because each, in its own way, is the right tool for the job at hand - if, and when, a better tool is available, I'll find out the pros and cons of switching and make my decision based on the facts at hand and the recommendations of those I trust.

So please, Sherry in IT, since I know you are a fan of slashdot as well!, if we should receive a new attachment type tomorrow and you need something to transmogrify it into the familiar, come to me with a plan for how to integrate it and its information into our business. You're good at what you do; I've every confidence you can do this, too!

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (0)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818947)

Except they don't exist except on a Windows platform. In a Linux/FOSS office, that doesn't work.

I can't find any tools that parse a DOCX and will output a DOC (or other usable) file format on Linux, and I can't even find a back-converter for Windows (admittedly, I didn't look very hard, but I still can't find one).

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820609)

Novell's patched version of OpenOffice supports DOCX and runs on linux...

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

noddyxoi (1001532) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820897)

Novell is a trojan for MS.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

pallmall1 (882819) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819275)

if, and when, a better tool is available, I'll find out the pros and cons of switching and make my decision based on the facts at hand and the recommendations of those I trust.
Why don't you ask your sister the bartender? I'll bet she'll be serving a lot of tonics to your IT staff as they struggle to implement the unimplementable for their clueless boss who views them as "wait staff".

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819743)

Typical bad attitude again - when you can't provide a counter argument, you turn to some partial ad hominum.

I just want YOU the admin to do the things I hired you to do so I can do the things I need to do. You make communications gear work, and I respect that. I design chemical reactors, and I expect you to respect the need for tools to support our company's normal operations.

Regardless of your liking it or not, MS Office 2007 is out there - and people will be using it, increasingly more so as time goes on. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not so, but even so, some hapless customer will save his latest contract draft in Word and email it to me for review - personally, I'd like to read it. I don't care how you in IT make that happen, but is it an unreasonable request? I think not. Is sending back a smug reply - we don't take your kind here - acceptable? Again, I think not.

And yes, I do view IT as wait staff. They are charged to take user requests and turn out solutions - how else should I view them? What are you thinking about wait staff that's so biased you don't care for the analogy? IT seems to have some sort of ego problem - as if we 'mere mortal' users should grovel before you for simply doing your jobs and failing miserably in the ethics department while doing so. Having worked as an admin while in college, I can say with a high degree of confidence I understand much of what you need to do, and while the exact technologies change, that would be part of why I'm paying you to stay up on those things.

Sorry to sound like the one with the ego problem, but in a statement of fact, I know I could do your job if I were to take the time to learn the state of the industry - but since the average 'IT guy' can't design reactors and doesn't own a business besides the occasional side job removing viruses and reinstalling Windows for coworkers, I do that instead.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820181)

Regardless of your liking it or not, MS Office 2007 is out there - and people will be using it, increasingly more so as time goes on. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not so, but even so, some hapless customer will save his latest contract draft in Word and email it to me for review - personally, I'd like to read it. I don't care how you in IT make that happen, but is it an unreasonable request? I think not. Is sending back a smug reply - we don't take your kind here - acceptable? Again, I think not.
Microsoft has designed that format so that the only way to view it is to use Office2007. So buy Office2007. Their spec cannot be implemented (hence the mess at ISO). Best case, the text may be extracted. Of course if you don't happen to run a supported platform (i.e. anything other than a recent version of Windows), you're screwed.
You're confusing "staff" and "wizards".

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

TrancePhreak (576593) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820275)

Not true. There is a plugin for Office 2003 to use the new formats, as well as a viewer. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925180 [microsoft.com]

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820801)

Not true. There is a plugin for Office 2003 to use the new formats, as well as a viewer.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925180 [microsoft.com]
Still Windows only and very restricted. Not much help to a lot of users.
Outside of large corporations, I find that a lot of people have stuck with Office 97 for example (and I'm moving quite a few of them to OOo).

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (2, Interesting)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820279)

You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not so, but even so, some hapless customer will save his latest contract draft in Word and email it to me for review - personally, I'd like to read it.

This argument cuts both ways and highlights the importance of open standards. I don't have windows at home, and my wife (definitely non techie - doesn't know the difference between a binary and its icon) doesn't want windows at home. Businesses that insist on communicating via windows specific technology get marked down.

Her indoors is currently doing an online course with a private company that specified that she submit all work in doc format - after she had signed up. She asked if pdf was okay and the instructor said yes. A while into the course, her instructor changed and the new one couldn't even figure out how to open a pdf. She insisted on word documents.

The ball and chain insisted on her money back if she couldn't submit in pdf, because nowhere in the advertising material or documentation did it mention having to buy software from a foreign monopoly to participate in the course until after the money was paid - my words, not hers.

Her instructor knows how to open a pdf now.

In my personal dealings with companies that want my business, I press save in open office and send the resulting file. If they can't read them, I ask them how they want them saved. I then usually save them as word documents and suggest they upgrade their office suite to one that can communicate with people who don't have word.

If MS just bit the bullet and adopted ODF, interoperability would be so good. I understand they want to monopolise the desktop, but seriously, at home, why the fuck should I pay a foriegn company for an operating system? I support the machines myself, it's not like it's a corporate environment where support contracts are important. I refuse to pay Microsoft for their crap, and I don't particularly see the need to spend the crap loads of unjustified markup on OSX (even higher and less justified in Australia then the rest of the world).

OOXML is not an implementable spec and ODF is so if businesses want to communicate with the widest possible range of customers, use a format accessible to everyone.

Send only ODF and include a link to a free ODF import/export plugin for word. [sourceforge.net]

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20820385)

Huh ? So, Microsoft forces Word users to buy OSX ? WTF

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

JohnBailey (1092697) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820451)

Sorry to sound like the one with the ego problem, but in a statement of fact, I know I could do your job if I were to take the time to learn the state of the industry - but since the average 'IT guy' can't design reactors and doesn't own a business besides the occasional side job removing viruses and reinstalling Windows for coworkers, I do that instead.
So basically.. you are the cook.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (2, Insightful)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820571)

// if, and when, a better tool is available, I'll find out the pros and cons of switching and make my decision based on the facts at hand and the recommendations of those I trust.

Exactly, a file format should not be able to dictate what you switch to... Your devision of what to use might boil down to "we need to open files in format x, only y supports x so we must use y", regardless of so many other important factors like cost, performance, usability, stability, long term support etc.

Without proprietary formats, you would be free to choose what truly is the best tool for your needs based on the actual pros and cons.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

aproposofwhat (1019098) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820713)

Speaking as a (reasonably) small business owner myself, I would be highly upset if my 'IT guy' if such a smug email were sent out. Think of how that must sound the recipient - here, I've sent some requested some piece of information, only to be rebuffed because of some anonymous IT guy's personal crusade I neither have knowledge of and care not a wit for? This sort of attitude, which I unfortunately see applauded here on slashdot, seems the very thing leading to so much contention between virtually every department and IT.

Sorry, but you're missing the point.

It's not some 'personal crusade' that would lead one to politely request the information in a readable format, it's simple practicality.

This is why we need standards - to provide a document (or data file, or graphics file, or ...) format that is easily exchanged between the systems that need to access the information.

To use your restaurant analogy, if you were to request your well-done steak in some hip slang not well understood by either the waiting staff or the kitchen, I would expect most waiters to politely request that you rephrase your request in English, in order that they may serve you correctly.

Now do you see?

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818937)

"open". My ass...
That's the idea, yes.

Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (1)

grcumb (781340) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820129)

"open". My ass...

Change the punctuation a bit, and that's Microsoft's game plan in a nutshell....

OOXML is just to confuse with Open Office XML (1)

noddyxoi (1001532) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820881)

OOXML is just to confuse with Open Office XML. People known that Open Office is the free suite, so they assume that OO stands for OpenOffice XML format. Wise move, that shows how cunny this pricks are.

Darwin Award (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818421)

Maybe if they keep up the work they've been doing lately, they might just win a Darwin award.

In Putin's Russia (-1, Offtopic)

rastoboy29 (807168) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818475)

Standards own you!

you did the icon wrong (2, Funny)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818477)

the foot should have been on top of gate's head...

Microsft? A hero? (2, Insightful)

WK2 (1072560) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818539)

Microsoft made a heroic -- and costly -- effort to discredit their own proposal, and we're sincerely grateful to them.

If I see an armed mugger robbing two women, and then run away screaming, and the robber looks at me for a second, giving one of the women enough time to open a can of woop-ass, that doesn't make me a hero.

Re:Microsft? A hero? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818609)

If I see an armed mugger robbing two women, and then run away screaming, and the robber looks at me for a second, giving one of the women enough time to open a can of woop-ass, that doesn't make me a hero.
It worked for Sam Houston.

Re:Microsft? A hero? (4, Funny)

Dak RIT (556128) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818629)

A but you see there's no third party in this situation... the robber and the hero are one in the same.

A better analogy would be the Yen Buddhists, who believe that the accumulation of money is a great evil and a burden on the soul and they therefore, regardless of personal hazard, see it as their unpleasant duty to acquire as much money as possible to reduce the risk to innocent people.[1]

[1] With apologies to Terry Pratchett

Linus is right (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818567)

I am with Linus on this one. For the life of me I can't understand what this sucking up to RMS is about. Linus himself does not think GPLv3 is a good thing. So why do people keep adopting it.
Without Linus FOSS is tossed. Not following Linus is dangerous for the survival of FOSS.

Wrong site... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818617)

This belongs to the site formerly known as thedailywtf [worsethanfailure.com] ...

They could win another award (4, Funny)

Rolman (120909) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818639)

If OOXML finally dies, shall we give Microsoft a Darwin Award [darwinawards.com] ? Or perhaps a Richard Dawkins Award since it's a dying meme?

Re:They could win another award (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818683)

As someone said elsewhere, has microsoft grown so large that they've started fighting themselves?

Re:They could win another award (0)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818713)

If OOXML finally dies
What makes you think OOXML will die? As long as most business uses MS Office, which is not going to change in the next ten or even 20 years, whatever format MS wants, they will eventually get.

Re:They could win another award (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818909)

Goverments will prefer to adopt the ISO standard than a non-standard format. Several private enterprises do business with goverments and by proxy, should use odf to interoperate.

And the domino-effect continues...

Re:They could win another award (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819245)

Goverments will prefer to adopt the ISO standard than a non-standard format.

I wish this where true, but it's not reality, I can't see how you can say it is. Facts are that many (perhaps even most) governments have "standardized" on Microsoft and Adobe. They may end up regretting it, but facts are facts.

Re:They could win another award (1)

init100 (915886) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820519)

Many governments have stated that they intend to convert to a format that is approved by ISO as an international standard in the near future. This is the entire reason why Microsoft is so keen on pushing OOXML though the ISO process. Because if they fail, they'd have to either implement native support for ODF or they would no longer be an option for many governments.

NO!!! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818681)

Don't send the money to MS!!! Send it to me - I trolled bravely and gratuitously against/for whatever the thing is, and I've already send my money to Peru. Email me here to get contact info:

ac@slashdot.org

A ploy? (1)

Ryukotsusei (1164453) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818735)

What prevents them from modifying odf to whatever they want in the future anyway? They may have given up OOXML, but that doesn't mean they don't have enough power to make odf proprietary either.

Re:A ploy? (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818831)

That's what people don't get. In the end, it's the market leader who sets the "standards", not bodies of people who claim to set standards.

Re:A ploy? (5, Insightful)

allthingscode (642676) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819041)

History only partially backs you up on this one. Remember Microsoft's numerous attempts to define a networking standard so that they could crush the TCP/IP network protocol? NetBUI anyone?

But yes, it can be hard to overcome the market leader. But, then again, if Microsoft were really sure that they controlled the market, why go through the trouble of standardizing? Because large parts of the world were looking elsewhere, especially governments.

Re:A ploy? (2, Informative)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819289)

Remember Microsoft's numerous attempts to define a networking standard so that they could crush the TCP/IP network protocol? NetBUI anyone?

In MS's defense, TCP/IP wasn't a great option at the time either. MS was working with NetBEUI before DHCP came on the scene for instance.

Sure, they could have put the effort they spent in developing NetBEUI into fixing their objections to TCP/IP, but there was also plenty of work done on NetBEUI by that point already as well, so I don't think it was clear at the time that TCP/IP was going to win out even on LANs.

Re:A ploy? (1)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819333)

Remember Microsoft's numerous attempts to define a networking standard so that they could crush the TCP/IP network protocol? NetBUI anyone?

Uh, no. Perhaps you'd like to tell the story of how Microsoft supposedly tried to "crush" TCP/IP with a broadcast-heavy, unroutable network protocol designed for small, unmanaged workgroups ?

Re:A ploy? (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820775)

did MS ever create thier own protocol that was suitable for large routed networks (afaict TCP/IP on small lans is mostly a side affect of the internet).

Re:A ploy? (2, Interesting)

jthill (303417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819223)

Just like Microsoft's Java corruptions set that standard, and their C corruptions set that one, and their HTML corruptions set that one, and (as pointed out above) their TCP/IP alternative set that one, and ... um. In their dreams. They haven't corrupted the language that far yet. Standards, see, standards are written documents everyone can consult to implement products that meet them. Microsoft's entire business model fails in the presence of actual standards.

Please help (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20818789)

I am white trash and I live in a trailer and it's raining real hard outside and I heard some hard knocking on my door and I looked out the window and I saw some guy wearing a mask running around to the back of the trailer and now I hear him banging on the side and then I saw him looking in another window and now I closed all the blinds and now the power has gone out and I think he's gonna break in and kill me.

Re:Please help (4, Funny)

MrNaz (730548) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819751)

Yay somebody finally found out where AC lives and is going to sort out the problem of trolls and frist posters once and for all!

Re:Please help (1)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820261)

Congratulations on managing to post AC without power.

You need a bit of a rewrite on that troll and then you can give it another try. We'll still be here, promise.

On behalf, (5, Funny)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818833)

I just got off the phone with Mr Bill. He said I am supposed to accept the award for Microsoft. The only problem is that I am busy on the night it would be awarded. I could make a teleconference appearance but sadly would need assistance in getting the money back to Microsoft. If it is wired to me, I couldn't get through customs and we all saw that movie with tom hanks who had to live in an airport.

If anyone with a valid checking account could help with this, I am willing to give them a small convenience fee of 10% plus any expenses. Please down load my personal instant messaging program [wikipedia.org] and shoot me a message. If you have difficulty installing it, you can email me directly at 419 at nigeria.embasy [wikipedia.org] Notice I used the "at" instead of the "@" sign in the email address to avoid spammers and scammers.

Thank you in advance to anyone able to help.

Re:On behalf, (1)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818919)

I see that you're in dire straits now. I'm a very helpful person and would happily comply to your requests, I had even installed your program in my laptop and I like it. I would also like you to know that I'm very good at handling family fortunes, if you wont mind I could take care of your family's wealth. I'd even send you my laptop too, how about it?

Re:On behalf, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20819753)

George [youtube.com] , is [youtube.com] that [youtube.com] you [youtube.com] ?

FFII? (3, Funny)

Speare (84249) | more than 6 years ago | (#20818961)

Is this the Japanese numbering of Final Fantasy II, or the USA releases?

Re:FFII? (4, Informative)

qcomp (694740) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820447)

Is this the Japanese numbering of Final Fantasy II, or the USA releases?
actually, the abbreviation stands for the Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure [ffii.org] , a not-for-profit organization that has campaigned (in Europe), among other things, against software patents, excessive "intellectual" "property" rights and for open standards.

hey ms (1)

sh3l1 (981741) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819747)

Hey, microsoft... if you don't want to pick up your prize, because you are too embarrassed, i can do so for you.

New Country Tune (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 6 years ago | (#20819853)

"YEE-HAW!!! Let's go buy us some votes!!!" by The Redmond Cowboys

Unfortunately... (2, Insightful)

vegiVamp (518171) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820225)

The problem is that this doesn't change much.

They're still going to deploy it as the default document format for the new Offices. Lots of small and large companies are still going to upgrade their software at some point. OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.

Re:Unfortunately... (2, Insightful)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820353)

OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.
Whatever they came up with was likely to be a de facto standard of sorts. But blocking this from becoming a de jure standard is still a somewhat surprising victory, and we should celebrate winning a battle, even if the war is far from over.

For that matter, for all its flaws, MSOOXML is an improvement over MS's older formats. While it may not be transparent like ODF, it is, at the least, fairly translucent compared to their earlier, opaque formats. The fact that they've gone as far as they have towards transparency is another sizable and often-overlooked victory.

No, they're not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20820505)

>> They're still going to deploy it as the default document format

No, they're not. There will be a fork between MS-OOXML and ECMA-OOXML, since ECMA has to address the technical comments from the ISO national standards bodies if they are to have any hope of ISO certification. Brian Jones of Microsoft has stated that MS will not guarantee support of ECMA-OOXML, but the Microsoft variant only. As the only complete implementer of the proposed standard (the documentation has been shown to be unusable to achieve non-Microsoft implementation), MS is essentially saying that the ISO certification is merely a marketing tool to avoid being shut out of government contracts. They will not commit to actual support of ECMA-OOXML if and when it becomes an ISO standard.

The cynicism is appalling.

.doc remains dominant, odf will gain momentum (1)

slashbart (316113) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820655)

The installed base of older Office versions is so gigantic, that the new docx format is being refused. People will return mails with docx attachments saying "I can't read this, just send it as .doc will you!".

This forces the Office2007 users to learn how to "Save As".

I predict the "doc" format will stay with us for a very long time, and that as governments start using odt, the docx format will slowly fade away.

Bart

Hope my Cassandra skills are up to it today :-)

Re:.doc remains dominant, odf will gain momentum (1)

vegiVamp (518171) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820961)

> This forces the Office2007 users to learn how to "Save As".

You're being very optimistic here :-)

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people just copy/paste entire documents into an email.

And then there were none... (1)

Osrin (599427) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820363)

For all the noise they made it was the FFII who publically put money on the table, in the form of this award, with the goal of recruiting people to subvert the standards process. It is good to see that they have seen sense and chosen this route of getting out of their fix, good to see a little humer from them as well.

Re:And then there were none... (1)

qcomp (694740) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820479)

if you had read the press release you would have seen that there were indeed numerous genuine candidates (i.e., noOOXML-campaigns in several countries), which said they didn't need the money - and which, for all their activism and ingenuity, didn't manage to create the same level of disgust with the format that Microsoft schieved with all the committee stuffing and other shenanigans [noooxml.org] and the total lack of reasoned argument for the proposed standard.
The best way to show that someone is an idiot is often to just let him babble...

MS is experienced in shooting their own foot (4, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820605)

Let's face it, folks. MS had the OS market in a stranglehold. They could've gotten away with pretty much anything. Bundling with hardware? No problem at all. Actually made the Average Joe user happy. Crappy bundled software like players and browsers? Zero problem either. Who doesn't know that there's better alternatives is happy with what he got. Mandatory registration? Already a bit of a nuisance to the average user (especially if he doesn't have internet access), but still bearable. Anyone will make a single phone call to use his computer.

But then they stepped across the line where the average user grins and bears it. After a major repair, another call. After a few more, the spanish inquisition starts. People start to get nervous. They didn't do anything wrong, yet they feel as suspects for copying software. Software they bought honestly. People also care whether they can do what they used to do. Now DRM is hanging over their heads, and they start looking at their friends who use Linux, who don't have to call, who don't have to register, who get tons of software for free and legally so, and with the various installers the distributions have, it's also only a mouseclick away.

People start to look around for alternatives. Being the moderator of a "non-geek tech board", I got a pretty good idea what bugs the "Average Joe" users and what direction they take. For about a year now, we have had a vastly increasing number in postings containing questions about Linux, which distribution to take, how to install it and how to get it going, quickly followed by quite happy notes how easy it was.

I've been trying to talk them into it for a few years now. Until recently the response was mostly "What for?". Now there's a reason. So if anyone helped Linux become more of a mainstream system, it's MS.

Bill Gates is a... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20820725)

spoony bard.

I know, sorry...

Oooooo.... (1)

Mystery00 (1100379) | more than 6 years ago | (#20820917)

If Microsoft doesn't send a representative to claim their 2500-Euro prize at the FFII General Assembly in November, FFII will give the money to Peruvian earthquake relief.

Now they're going to have to go and claim it.

MS could recover (1)

shish (588640) | more than 6 years ago | (#20821227)

by turning up to collect the prize, then donating it to charity for themselves?
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