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Tabula Rasa Delayed Two Weeks

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the bit-longer-till-the-war-starts dept.

Role Playing (Games) 93

The FPS/MMOG Tabula Rasa, developed for NCSoft by Richard Garriott's Destination Games, will now be delayed for about two weeks while some last-minute testing goes on. Eurogamer reports: "The extra time will apparently be used to fiddle around with stability and balance issues, as well as put high-level area Ligo through its paces and iron out some crafting niggles. This is very important to Starr, who was adamant to share the development mantra of, 'Stable, fast, fun. In that order.' In the coming weeks, creator Richard Garriott will be writing features detailing what endgame content we can expect in Tabula Rasa, and how Destination Games will go about adding updates over time."

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93 comments

On a limb (2, Funny)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838607)

Richard Garriott will be writing features detailing what endgame content we can expect in Tabula Rasa, and how Destination Games will go about adding updates over time
Let me take some wild guesses. The endgame will involve large groups of players getting together to fight incredibly tough monsters which will only drop rewards for a small percentage of those involved. The updates over time will be some minor content and bug fixes released in patch form, while major content additions are sold in separately purchased "expansion packs".

Re:On a limb (0, Redundant)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838667)

Oh wow sounds like just about every other MMO... well at least EVE Online the expansions are free.

Re:On a limb (4, Informative)

Rinisari (521266) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839171)

Apparently parent and grandparent have not played NCSoft's major MMORPG titles City of Heroes and City of Villains. Both have never had an expansion pack, and considerable content is added with each update. In fact, two updates ago, NCSoft added an invention system to augment drops. Additionally, the rate of experience is quite high for an MMO. I've been playing for about four months now and I can get a character up to level 10 in a little more than 10 hours of gameplay—level 6 in about five hours.

Re:On a limb (2, Interesting)

Rinisari (521266) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839213)

I forgot to mention that I've played just about every MMO, and City of Heroes/Villains is the only one that's kept my attention for longer than a month, save Ultima Online, which I played for three years.

Re:On a limb (2, Interesting)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839687)

Heh, COH/V and UO are the only MMOs that held my attention as well.

Anyway, to elaborate on the parent post, the reason he's pointing at COH/V is that while the end-game does have a massive boss monster for the server to fight(It's not instanced, anyone on the server can join in and get rewarded, and everyone gets rewarded each time). The end-game of City of Villains (not yet implemented in CoH by the time I had left the game) consisted of an 8 person team embarking on a set of missions against the canon heroes of City of Heroes, sometimes one at a time, sometimes several of these heroes at once.

So it's not necessarily the same.

Oracle is hazy (2, Informative)

sabt-pestnu (967671) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840053)

One might well consider City of Villains an expansion pack for CoH. I will concede that considerable content has been added gratis, and for which I am grateful. In addition, they recognize that their main income from CoH/CoV is from monthly revenue, so after an initial sales period, they've offered many "new package" benefits (costume elements, product-granted powers like a limited teleport, etc that were granted with particular promotionally packaged items like the "Good Vs Evil" pack) for a nominal cost.

On the other hand, NCSoft also runs GuildWars, which HAS had expansion packs. GuildWars's revenue stream, though, IS those expansion packs.

Despite the vast number of Tabula Rasa sites out there, all I could find on pricing was the initial outlay for the game. My opinion, then, is that they'll follow one of the two paths - roll profits from monthly subscription back into the expansion packs, or regularly pump out expansion packs for a fee, but not charge a subscription price.

Re:On a limb (1)

Cecil (37810) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839363)

Asheron's Call was not like that. At least, it wasn't several years ago when I was still playing it. There were major updates every month, a whole plotline that changed with the players and their actions, with GM-run events, new weapons, dungeons, etc. Every month. Sometimes between monthly updates too, although that was normally reserved for bugfixes.

It was actually a pretty fantastic game. If it hadn't be interfering with my social/financial life I might still be playing it. Though I heard it started going downhill after I left, and the whole Asheron's Call 2 trainwreck was not a good omen.

Re:On a limb (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838683)

I will start calling you Muad Dib, and we shall worship you as a god.

Re:On a limb (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#20842555)

I feel like a broken record, but DAoC's endgame content was 80% "kill a lot of my PC enemies because it benefits my team", and 20% other stuff. Quite enjoyable.

Re:On a limb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20856585)

How could the first post be modded redundant? Idiots.

Interesting to note (3, Interesting)

apdyck (1010443) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838679)

I find the title of this game interesting. Tabula Rasa was the name of a Buffy The Vampire Slayer episode from Season 6. Those were the magic words used to erase or modify people's memory, in conjunction with a certain type of flower. I wonder why they chose this title!

Re:Interesting to note (0, Redundant)

xarnx (917943) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838775)

Sorry to burst your bubble... but the phrase Tabula Rasa goes back a whole lot further than Buffy the vampire slayer. It's a way of approaching debate judging, it's a latin phrase, it's a computer science term, and a whole lot more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa [wikipedia.org] Believe it or not, the entire universe doesn't center around the musing of Joss Whedon.

Re:Interesting to note (2, Insightful)

apdyck (1010443) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838947)

While I have no reason to doubt that the phrase dates back much further than a recent television show, I was merely pointing out the repeated use of the phrase, and the context under which it had been previously used. Thank you very much for making me feel like an idiot.

SLASHDOT, WHERE THE WEAK ARE KILLED AND EATEN (1)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839859)

lol, you must be new here

Reminds me of a shirt I saw once.. "New Jersey: Where the weak are killed and eaten"

I'm thinking a slashdot variant could be appropriate?

Re:Interesting to note (2, Informative)

Barny (103770) | more than 6 years ago | (#20842205)

If you bothered to look (yeah, this may make you look more so), the meaning of "blank slate" is a double reference in the game, partly to humanity having the earth uh, conquered on us and us having to make our way in the universe and being able to put all pasts behind us, as well it refers to the "magic" system of Logos that the player mast collect and add to their tabula (which surprisingly enough, starts out empty!), unlocking abilities and powers for them.

In the game the Logos (runes effectively) are a language that an ancient race used to communicate near universally with any race (gotta admit, it is easy to pick-up, once you learn a bit).

This reference of course isn't accidental, Garriot comes across (from chatting in game and reading informal chats done with him) as a real geeks-geek, could he have picked up the phrase from Buffy the vampire slayer? Maybe. Would he have known about it before hand, more than likely. Will ask him next time he is in game :)

Oh and all that info above is available on their non-NDA part of the web site ^_^

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20843223)

>>the meaning of "blank slate" is a double reference in the game

It would have been a good subtitle for Planescape: Torment

Re:Interesting to note (2, Funny)

kryten_nl (863119) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839067)

Believe it or not, the entire universe doesn't center around the musing of Joss Whedon.
Blasphemer !!

*Goes back to watching Firefly (again)*

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838811)

Because Richard Garriot is starting over from scratch, on a clean slate, so to speak -- a Tabula Rasa. As opposed to doing yet another Ultima.

You're sure no Garriot fanboi.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Drey (1420) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838837)

It's Latin for 'clean slate' or 'scraped tablet' and refers to a theory that we are born with no innate knowledge and learn everything through experience.

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838873)

Tabula Rasa is latin for "clean slate", hence the words were used in the spell on Buffy. The plot of the game apparently involves a large portion of humanity being wiped out by an alien invasion, and the few who are left are starting over with a "clean slate"....

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838893)

Tabula Rasa was the name of a Buffy The Vampire Slayer episode from Season 6.
I love people who encounter references to ancient concepts in popular culture and automatically assume that the popular culture is the origin of the concept.

The Latin term tabula rasa was coined by Thomas Aquinas roughly 700 years before Buffy was first thought of. I really see no reason to assume that Buffy had anything whatsoever to do with the title of this game.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849593)

I rather doubt Thomas von Aquin invented the term, it is too generic, it is probably way older since the romans already were using tables and chalk for teaching their children, it probably has native roman even maybe latinic heritage and was taken over as a common phrase by the philosophers. The scholastic people were rather late to the table to invent such a generic latin term.

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838901)

It stands for "Blank Slate" ... Turn the TV off and go learn some philosophy.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Nilych (959204) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838905)

Wow.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

paleo2002 (1079697) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838907)

Because before episodes of Buffy became to ultimate form of artistic and intellectual expression, "tabula rasa" was a philosophical concept developed by ancient greek philosophers. It means "blank slate" and is related to the notion that humans are born as blank slates, having no inborn knowledge, ideas, etc.



So, its not a 90's pop culture reference. Its just a fancy way of calling your new game "New Game".

Re:Interesting to note (1)

tute666 (688551) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838915)

wikipedia is your friend.

Greek philosophy concept that states that man is born sinless, and through society/exprecience, is tainted.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

paleo2002 (1079697) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838959)

That sounds more like a religious (dare I say Christian) interpretation. And, by religious, I mean it makes society and civilized people sound evil.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

tute666 (688551) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839593)

call it whatever, christianism didnt even exist then

Re:Interesting to note (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849607)

Those concepts are way older than christianity or judaism. The classical heaven/hell concept and sin concept was first documented in Zoroaism (which is the first documented single god religion) I assume most of those concepts are way older than that, but our documentation references only can reach back a certain amount of time.

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838917)

did someone seriously just write that?

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838927)

"Tabula Rasa" means "Blank Tablet" or, colloquially, "blank slate", in the latin.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Ren.Tamek (898017) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838967)

'Tabula Rasa' is latin for 'clean slate'. That explains why it was used in that episode of buffy, which was about erasing memory. It is the title of this game because each character starts life with no class at all, a 'clean slate', and then they specialise throuugh a tiered levelling system. It has also been set up to allow for backtracking, allowing you to forget your new skills and begin at the beginning of any given tier with a 'clean slate.' I will now write the words 'clean slate' in single quotes again, just to emphasise what every review of this game is eventually going to look like.

Re:Interesting to note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20838975)

Because 'Tabula Rasa' actually means "Clean Slate" and is the philosophical idea that when things are born they are an empty vessel and can become or be filled with anything.

In essence, everyone starts with infinite possibilities, and their choices over time shape what becomes of them, and what possibilities they attain.

That is why they chose the title, and I am disheartened with the state of the world that the first thing that was connected to "Tabula Rasa" was Buffy The Vampire Slayer...

Re:Interesting to note (1)

astrokid (779104) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838981)

It means "Clean Slate" in latin, so i'm assuming the main plot line will be something to that effect.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

tetlowgm (4161) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839021)

Maybe because it means 'clean slate' in latin? The idea is that you can do whatever you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa [wikipedia.org]

Re:Interesting to note (2, Funny)

gnarlyhotep (872433) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839203)

Something gives me the feeling that it might have nothing to do with buffy, and that it might have a deeper and older meaning. It's just a hunch, though...

Re:Interesting to note (1)

langelgjm (860756) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840295)

I was going to post the meaning, but I can't seem to remember it... My mind's like a blank slate!

Re:Interesting to note (1)

mqatrombone (306870) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839405)

The title "Blank Slate" was chosen because humanity is basically starting over. We've been nearly wiped out by aliens and must completely rebuild, away from Earth. For the player, their character is one that is starting over as well.

Re:Interesting to note (2, Interesting)

BobGregg (89162) | more than 6 years ago | (#20842005)

>>The title "Blank Slate" was chosen because humanity is basically starting over.
>>We've been nearly wiped out by aliens and must completely rebuild, away from Earth.

Actually, I always assumed that it was *Richard Garriott* who was starting over, with a completely new universe separated from the Ultima legacy. Regardless, the title has some nice nuances to it.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | more than 6 years ago | (#20846795)

*ding ding ding*

We have a winner! That's exactly what it means. It's about creation of Destination Games out of the ashes of Origin (Origin -> Destination) and the reinvention of the MMORPG genre.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/tabula-rasa/512497p1.html [gamespy.com]

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#20842595)

Mod post up, people. It's actually informative.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | more than 6 years ago | (#20846931)

Mod post up, people. It's actually informative.
... but wrong. The name was chosen long before the story. The name is a commentary on the current state of the MMORPG and what is required to move it forward.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

fbjon (692006) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839579)

I would just like to point out that this [wikipedia.org] is now the 5th link to wikipedia, and the 20th post pointing out the same damn error in a row. This has to be a new record, perfect for the anniversary!

Re:Interesting to note (1)

tooler (36824) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840473)

Hey, thanks for that link on the background of the term. I really appreciate it.

Re:Interesting to note (1)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839807)

Per an interview long ago, back before the major revamp of the game to a gun-emphasis, Richard Garriott commented that the title stemmed from the development outline. They wanted to design an MMO first, so they have a blank slate to work from, then build the story into it afterwards. Thus, "Tabula Rasa" (blank slate).

Re:Interesting to note (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849585)

Good to know that history started with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the romans never existed.

Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (2, Informative)

DrXym (126579) | more than 6 years ago | (#20838925)

I played the beta on a free weekend trial key and to be honest it didn't feel like I was playing anything new or interesting. It's a grungy space marine style game where you kill things with blasters instead of swords. Otherwise it's typical MMO fair - do quests, grind, buff etc. The difference of course is that the loot is enhanced armour, weapons and your character advances in weapons and other military skills with some with psychic abilities which are basically spells. It felt most like a cross between Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies and that's not necessarily something to be happy about. I uninstalled it after 3 hours.

MMOs just seem to be stuck in a rut that they can't escape. Even games like Lord of the Rings online (one of the better MMOs at the moment) still can't escape from experience bars, skill points, menial quests and whatnot. I was hoping for more from Tabula Rasa and I really didn't feel there was much more.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20839279)

I wouldn't say it's "too hard core", but yes, it's a space marine MMO. I like it better than WoW, for one thing because there is no ganking (even on WoW's PvE servers, you get ganked all the time - I consider corpse-camping to be griefing). So far, TR's economic model is nonexistent: crafting doesn't work, and there's no auction house; when that's addressed, things should be much better. I would like to see MMOs develop more in the economic/political/espionage direction than improved carnage, but dwarves, swords and magic have been done to death. And TR's sci-fi look is better than Eve's ("I can't ever get out of my ship?!").

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20840145)

I'll disagree about your EVE comment, who cares that you cant leave your ship and go to the local pub for space beers(even tho that is something that CCP is looking into adding into the future along with planetary stuff) the world that CCP has built along with the story that the players create with all the backstabbing, spying, wars and conflicts going on make it a far more interesting Sci-fi background. Not to mention with the upcoming graphics update EVE will look even prettier.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839327)

I won't be playing any more MMOs without a free trial. I burnt out on them years ago, and nothing has changed considerably since then. WoW managed to intrigue me (not addict) for a couple months, but that's it. The rest didn't make it through a trial period.

Since this was only allowing Beta playing (not testing, why do they bother calling it that?) to a limited number of people, and I don't feel like fighting for a seat, I've not gotten a chance to try this one. I don't hold any hope for it, though... It'll be the same as the rest. I want it not to be. I want another game that consumes my every waking moment... They just don't any more.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840103)

I won't be playing any more MMOs without a free trial. I burnt out on them years ago, and nothing has changed considerably since then. WoW managed to intrigue me (not addict) for a couple months, but that's it. The rest didn't make it through a trial period.

My first experience of a pay MMO was Everquest (I played and even ran a Diku mud before that). I played EQ for close to two years. During the Shadows of Luclin expansion, Sony / Verant really shafted their customers by forcing a new client on people even if they didn't want the expansion. Understandable really from a support point of view, but the client was buggy as hell, as was the world in general. There was a full month or so where the game client or server would crash without warning. It was during this period I thought to myself that I just wasn't having any fun any more. Most of the time I was crafting to raise money, sitting in the tunnel west of Freeport /auc'ing my stuff, camping items I needed for crafting, or sitting on a boat waiting to get to or from those places.

It was boring as hell yet here I was paying to do this crap. All of the crashes gave me time to reflect. Sure I had invested a lot of time in the game, but was it fun? No. I cancelled my sub.

I've played lots of MMOs since, but I can spot the same tell tale signs of grind in virtually game I've played. Normally I'll play on a free trial or the first 30-days and realise that there is nothing new in the title. You advance beyond level 7 or 8 and you start grinding - to buy stuff, or repair stuff, or to speed travel or whatever. It concerns me how popular WoW is. I wonder how many of those people are actually having fun, and how many are stuck in the same situation I was with EQ and just don't realise it. WoW is certainly better than EQ in virtually every way but the it uses the same fundamental technique to keep people playing - grind.

A very decent MMO is Puzzle Pirates just for being like no other MMO at all. You can happily waste lots of time doing nothing but playing puzzles. If you want to grind, then the option is there to do it but its just so much fun to play the basic games if you feel like it. EVE online is also good but you really need a lot of time to play it.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20840471)

EVE is a great experience, but it does away with most of the MMO conventions. Grinding in EVE is more fun than end-level bosses in most fantasy-based games that I've played. The way character advancement is handled is very well-done. While it takes commitment and time to master, having lots of fun in the world of EVE can be attained with 2 hours every other night.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

darkmayo (251580) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840709)

well you dont really need alot of time to play EVE, since you can set your skill to train, log out and come back later when its done. If your bored you can do a few missions, rat for a bit, or mine. The time consuming part comes if you are blockading jumpgates, sieging POS or laying waste to a fleet, but only if you stick it out for the long haul. Since skills are determined by actual time, the only thing you really need to "grind" for is money. Money can be gained through killing NPCs, running missions, Mining, playing the market, pirating, scamming etc.

The only other thing I can think of that takes time the learning part. The new tutorial makes things a bit better but there is ALOT to this game.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 6 years ago | (#20841443)

The problem is time to learn something. I have an Eve char friends are trying to get me to play again. He can fly T2 galente frigates, T1 cruisers, and T1 BSes. I'd love to fly an arazu and PvP in it. To just learn it would take 2 months. To fly it well, 4-5. So to fly what I think would be fun to try, I'm looking at 4-5 months and nothing I do can speed it up. Way, way, way too long. Thats what made me lose interest.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

darkmayo (251580) | more than 6 years ago | (#20843283)

We get people who are pretty new and within a couple of days they are PVPing in Frigs warp scramming people and laying out some pew pew pew. You certainly cant solo pvp early on, (heck later on solo pvp still isnt a great idea) but wolfpacks of frigs and small cruisers can lay serious beat downs.

Thats the thing about EVE, play with friends or in a corp. Otherwise it will be rough.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 6 years ago | (#20843461)

I did, I was part of goonswarm. Plenty of value put on frigate swarms there. But I don't find being the sacrificial lamb fun. Having to wait for months to try and do something you think is fun (or worse, years- if I wanted to fly a carrier or a fully T2ed battleship it would take me a year) just isn't acceptable to me- its just as bad a timesink as something like WoW. I should be able to do whatever I want, within the limits of my ability, within a few days fo playing.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840763)

My experience goes way back to TheRealm and DragonRealms. And yes, it's all the same from there. Even the new 'features' like instancing, TheRealm, a 2D game, had. There's really not much new.

As for WoW... It's truly an immersive environment with some plot and backstory. EQ, for the little I played it, had no plot whatsoever. I'm not talking monthly changes, but rather the quests that new players experience immediately. The trolls, for instance, have this whole 'there's an invasion, help us fight it off' campaign that covers your first 20 or so levels in quests. It's pretty compelling, and keeps your attention a lot longer than the normal 'grind for money and xp' that most have.

As for Puzzle Pirates... If you like puzzle games, it's okay... But there's not really anything there that you can't get elsewhere for free. My sister sunk quite a bit of money into it for a while, but after a couple months, she doesn't care at all. I've sunk $0 into it because the whole MMO/grind thing was old hat to me.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

MaineCoon (12585) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840899)

It wasn't 'free', but they had a $5 pre-order package (no commitment to buy full, but no refund) which had guaranteed beta access as well as some bonuses if you do buy the full version. It's allowed me 2 full months of access at no additional cost during. I'm on the fence with purchasing - it plays halfway between a shooter and a traditional MMO.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#20850875)

The one thing about MMOs I don't like is the lack of content change. I don't mind slow levelling and such if the game still changes enough while I'm playing it. Environments and enemies that change frequently, that kind of thing. Not staying in a place beating stuff until you're cleared for the next area. I'd rather work my way through an area and fighting because the enemies are in the way, not because I need a number of kills to proceed. Of course changing enemies means more than just a changed 3d representation and more HP/damage, I mean different behaviours you have to deal with, strategies that differ, etc. I also often found that I had way too little to do in combat, only spam a special ability or two and click the potion button in regular intervals. People told me it gets better at higher levels but why is it like that at low levels? Why not give the player a good repertoire of tactics right from the start? The whole time you spend playing a game is a part of the game, not just the time that comes after the first howevermany hours.

Also do any MMORPGs use concepts like cover, flanking, etc? I assume their simple combat systems are mostly to reduce the requirements for low latency, manual aiming and such don't work well in a high latency environment but strategies should be mostly unaffected by the time between input and reaction.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839543)

you're right. I'd like to just once see an MMOG where you personally get better at the game instead of your in game character. If you figure out how to do something better then hurray for you, now you're stronger. Or find some new combination of attacks that are totally awesome then go you! Of course, guide sites and the lack of game makers to be able to design unlimited possibilities in games is holding it back. Second Life got it down pretty well though.
plus every MMOG needs Mario Kart-like racing minigames.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 6 years ago | (#20841363)

Try EVE Online, if you are into strategy.

It is a bit like Homeworld with one player commanding each ship, and players have to work together as fleet. Also, each ship has something it does not well and that can become it's Achilles' heel. So fleet commanders can try and outsmart each other (yes, there is PvP).

Another one I might like is a Shooter-MMORPG that actually requires some Counterstrike-like skills. Maybe I'll have to try Planetside some day ;-)

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

FlyveHest (105693) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849595)

Saying that Eve has PvP is like stating that water is wet ;)

PvP in Eve is RUTHLESS, you can loose a brand-new ship, worth 2 weeks playtime, 2 seconds after your first undocking.

Some like it, some don't, but I have never played a game which can make my heartrate go through the roof again and again.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#20842673)

The major difference (I did the beta for a while) is that shooting and tactical skill is actually a factor. There's some "fudge" in the mechanics to account for lag, but there's no "start combat"/"end combat" keystroke that puts you on auto-fight.

Other useful benefits include the fact that the war is being fought primarily between NPCs, and the PCs are elite soldiers, making the "you are a hero" bit a little more immersive. The NPCs can capture and lose strategic strongholds, the battles for which a PC can participate in and effect the outcome thereof. The holding and losing of territory will likely effect gameplay in non-trivial ways (this was a DAoC thing and apparently will be a Warhammer thing, as well).

Either you didn;t play the game enough or didn't really understand what you were doing. It's not a totally original game, but neither is it exactly the same as WoW/Everquest/AO.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

FlyveHest (105693) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849587)

The major difference (I did the beta for a while) is that shooting and tactical skill is actually a factor. There's some "fudge" in the mechanics to account for lag, but there's no "start combat"/"end combat" keystroke that puts you on auto-fight.


And while this seems interesting at first, the only thing it really does for the game is making it harder for you, as a player, to hit mobs, as you will have to do the aiming and shooting.

Mobs shots "automagically" homes in on you, and all the weaving and dodging you try, doesn't do squat (at least, I couldn't get it to do anything substantially damage-decreasing for the 4-5 hours I played the game)

Combined with the fact that the graphics arent't very interesting, the world is boring, and I found absolutely no new or interesting features, this game got uninstalled after the first playsession, and I won't be buying it on release.

Re:Tabula Rasa is too hard core for mainstream (1)

FlyveHest (105693) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849609)

I uninstalled it after 3 hours.


Sounds like my experience, except I got to 5 :)

The aim-yourself gimmick doesn't really add anything to the game (imho), other than making it harder for you to hit mobs.

Dodging, weaving, jumping and/or running around doesn't affects mobs hitting you, but they can dodge your shots, summing up to just making it harder and more demanding for you to grind, which really didn't work for me at all.

TR is a great game, or at least it might be... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20839401)

I don't see how General Brittish, as he is known inside Tabula Rasa, and his code army is going to fix all of the substantial problems that the game has in only two additional weeks.

MISIONS:
Missions (Quests) break constantly. If you die (or disconnect - which happens frequently) while attempting a mission inside an instance, the mission will frequently become non-completable, forcing the player to abandon the quest, return to the quest-giver, and ask for the mission again. Missions outside of instances are frequently impossible to complete because you cannot interact with one of the objectives (ie, blow up a mining drill or power generator). Logos obtainment quests frequently do not complete when you obtain said logos.

TERRAIN:
Clipping and Bounding planes are simply not enforced in many areas. Players get stuck in the terrain frequently, forcing the use of the /stuck macro (which takes you back in time about 15 seconds, hopefully to a time when you weren't stuck in the terrain). Players can pass through terrain (walls, rocks, flowers (HUGE FLOWERS) intermittently, causing all sorts of interesting situations which can often only be resolved by using the /stuck macro. This area of the game needs a substantial re-design.

GROUPING:
What is this? All instances (up to level 30, at least) can be soloed by any patient player of any class. All enemy characters can be avoided simply by running by/through their patrol and continuing running until you out-range them -- seriously. The single time I grouped to complete an instance, which was not necessary, mind you, each player simply did their own thing. Nobody healed their teammates, and nobody teamed up to beat the enemy characters. It was essentialy a FPS game with the storyline being played in co-op mode, but without any co-operation.

That being said, TR is a great game, or at least it might be if Richard Garriott doesn't give in to unrealistic publisher timelines, and deliver a beta product as a finished product.

Mod Parent up, Informative. (1)

minvaren (854254) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839705)

As a (brief) former beta tester, they're spot-on.

Does inventory still randomly (partially or completely) vanish as well?

Re:TR is a great game, or at least it might be... (1)

darkmayo (251580) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839945)

You forgot about how the first Logos skill you get "Lightning" is easily the best logos in the game by a large margin. You are better off using that most of your career because it one shot/two shots most mobs. The only issue is when you run into elec resistant/immune mobs, which are few and far between.

As well weapon balancing sucks still.. its getting better but damn there are some really glaring issues with someone of them. Chainguns for example just eat your ammo and do squat for damage. I see more people pistol whipping and butting mobs than using actual bullets.

pushed back two weeks.. I think they need to push further than that.

That being said, its nice to see something that isnt your standard fantasy genre.

Re:TR is a great game, or at least it might be... (1)

C. A. McClellan (1070014) | more than 6 years ago | (#20845075)

I don't want to be an asshole, but you have either not played in a long time, or God hates your character. Missions: I have only had one broken mission in the past couple of months, and not many before that. If you are getting that many broken missions you need to pay more attention to what the NPCs say. Terrain: I have not had to type /stuck for the past couple of weeks. It is getting worked out, and is still in BETA. Grouping: I like the fact that you can solo instances if you want. Some people may not like it as well. That is a matter of personal taste. However, if your groups always behave the way that you say, then maybe you need to make better choices when it comes to your group. I have a feeling that you have not played in quite some time. You raise some good points that were somewhat valid 2 months ago, but have been resolved.

Re:TR is a great game, or at least it might be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20852653)

I played, and experienced all of these issues (minus the grouping element), as recently as Tuesday, October 2nd. Maybe I'm just a more aggressive player than you are.

delayed only 2 weeks? (3, Interesting)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839627)

I bought 3 Tabula Rasa preorder packs (me, wife, friend) for a buck at the local electronics store because they came with beta keys. We played for several hours the first day and a bit more for a second day. We'd all gotten through the introductory tutorial ("noob island") and completed several quests on the main land. Upon exiting the game and logging back in all 3 of us would find our characters back on noob island, yet the quests to get us back to the mainland were not available! None of us could figure out how to play the game again so we all uninstalled.

The biggest disappointment was the execution and design of this very ordinary MMO despite RG's frequent proclamations that this game would be far different from all the other quest/farming grind games out there. It's WoW with frickin' laser beams. Yawn. Even if the game had worked flawlessly I wouldn't play it for free.

Re:delayed only 2 weeks? (1)

illumin8 (148082) | more than 6 years ago | (#20843391)

We'd all gotten through the introductory tutorial ("noob island") and completed several quests on the main land. Upon exiting the game and logging back in all 3 of us would find our characters back on noob island, yet the quests to get us back to the mainland were not available! None of us could figure out how to play the game again so we all uninstalled.
I signed up and was accepted to the original closed beta test of Tabula Rasa, which started several months ago. At the time, I logged in and the game was a buggy mess. This was in June and the game was only 4 months from release. I honestly tried to play it, but the bugs were so horrendous that it was very difficult. I thought the initial training mission was pretty fun. You move with a squad of soldiers and hide behind cover, jumping out to shoot down aliens. You place a few strategic explosive devices to blow up enemy gunner turrets and take over a control post. So far, so good. I levelled up to level 5, travelled outside of "noob island" and reached a point in the game where I would have to make a choice what career path I would want to take. TR offers a "clone" feature which is pretty neat, where you can clone your character right before making any major decision, so that you can always go back and choose a different path. I cloned my character, then logged out and back in and discovered, to my shock, that I was naked and all of my gear was gone. I tried creating another character, starting over, and every time I logged out, my gear would disappear. I went on the beta forums, and everyone was having this problem. This was a complete show-stopping bug, and yet, here we were, beta testers, almost completly unable to play the game because our gear would disappear every time we logged out.

I gave up playing at that point, and then recently, in August, I got another email from them saying "There's a new build out, come back and try it, and let us know what you think. We improved the game a lot." So, I downloaded the 2GB new build, logged on and tried it out. The stability has improved a lot, but there are still a few bugs and it's just reaching the point now where I think it is "public beta" quality. The game, however, gets boring very fast. The "ethical decisions" you have to make, which were so hyped in the interviews with Richard Garriott, seem to be not really meaningful and don't make any impact on the game world as far as I can tell, any more than choosing Aldor or Scryer does in WoW (in case you've played WoW).

Basically, it's like any MMO, except with guns instead of swords. You run around and shoot things. Quests are "collect 10 boar hides and return to me." Yes, one of the very first quests in the game is to kill boars and collect their hides... I don't think they could get much less original if they tried.

I don't really have the time to give a full review, but this game for me is a big "pass." It might have had potential to be really cool if it was like a Halo MMO, but it is anything but.

Re:delayed only 2 weeks? (1)

Eponymous Bastard (1143615) | more than 6 years ago | (#20844263)

delayed only 2 weeks?
Probably all the investors allowed. I smell the successor to SWG.

2 weeks for balance?....oh great (1)

Quarters (18322) | more than 6 years ago | (#20839763)

They're delaying an MMO for 14 days so they can finally get around to tweaking game balance issues? They waited until the game was done, started over, done, started over, and done again and then said, "Oh, crap...we forgot to balance it! How fast can we do that?" and came up with a time estimate of 2 weeks....for an MMO.

Re:2 weeks for balance?....oh great (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 6 years ago | (#20855199)

They're delaying an MMO for 14 days so they can finally get around to tweaking game balance issues? They waited until the game was done, started over, done, started over, and done again and then said, "Oh, crap...we forgot to balance it! How fast can we do that?" and came up with a time estimate of 2 weeks....for an MMO.

That's very typical. EQ2 did it towards the end of Beta, they did it again during the combat revamp (which was during almost 2 months of beta testing for the new expansion), and I'm sure a bunch of other MMOs have done it.

It indicates that something has gone wrong in the project management area.

a sadly generic game (4, Interesting)

gregor-e (136142) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840323)

TR provides the overall vibe of a design team with no real passion for their game. Everything felt very generic to me. It's as if the developers were just punching the clock, going down their checklist of schedule tasks, completing each one without any particular interest or enthusiasm.


WoW, for all it's faults, at least conveys a sense of wonder, and the stylized characters generally convey a vibe of humor and fun. Characters and settings in TR are like dead wooden tokens that simply stand in as placeholders while you navigate the game.

Re:a sadly generic game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20840695)

WoW, for all its faults...is a generally fun game. Except for fishing.

WoW has lots of problems inherent with any persistent-world game hosting over 8 million players. It's grind-centric, end-game content is generally not worth the 4-hour raiding times, and the economy is bug-nuts crazy.

But, and this is a big but for me, it's fun to play around in that world. I enjoy doing the quests, visiting the new places, finding the in-jokes, coming across cool environments and playing around with my skills. It's an enjoyable experience. That's worth something to me, and it's why I dust off my account every few months. I don't care about getting the epic purple drops. I just enjoy the experience and environment the game offers, which is the first thing an MMO should do correctly. And it's also where Tabula Rasa fails so miserably.

Re:a sadly generic game (1)

djones101 (1021277) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840737)

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Like most MMOs, I was attracted by the intro movie (which was very well done, imho), and decided to try it out. I've played the Beta, and while it is a welcome respite from WoW, it's far from groundbreaking. It really did feel like a differently-skinned WoW. The chat system is nearly identical, the bars are very similar, and the quest/reward system looks like a near perfect copy. I am glad they avoided the Guild Wars mistake of instancing everything. While it is a good concept, it's horrible in execution and make it feel less like an MMO and more like a standard RPG. With TR, they at least kept the zones populated with people, but by that same token, those zones get awfully crowded awfully quick. This results in quests that become quite difficult to complete, not by the complexity of the mission but by the sheer lack of things to kill. I do like the PlanetSide and WoW mix, but the game lacks innovation overall. One of the things WoW did well is it innovated a ton of things that hadn't really been done before, and forced every MMO after it to play catch-up to try and snag players away. Until someone whips out the magical trump card that shows Blizzard up in the innovation Department, MMOs like TR are just going to be tossed into the "also ran" category and be relegated to time wasters while WoW's raid instances cool down.

Re:a sadly generic game (2, Insightful)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#20842737)

One of the things WoW did well is it innovated a ton of things that hadn't really been done before, and forced every MMO after it to play catch-up to try and snag players away.

Uh, what? I'm having a hard time thinking of what WoW did that no MMORPG had done before. They streamlined and made it *better*, but WoW really just took a lot of things that were done before and put them in a better package.

Don't get me wrong, it's no small feat, but it's not amazingly original, either.

Re:a sadly generic game (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 6 years ago | (#20855293)

The paladin seal/judgement spell line was new to me (I've played EQ/EQ2/EVE and now WoW). A self-only buff (seal) that can be canceled early (judgement) to do damage or place a debuff on your target.

Blizzard took a lot of things from other MMOs and managed to get it about 95%+ correct, even on the small details. There are a few things that EQ2 did better (mini-dings, mentoring, mini-dungeons, larger quest journal), but for the first four weeks in WoW it seems a lot more polished then EQ2 ever was.

100% (1)

Cyno01 (573917) | more than 6 years ago | (#20848837)

I was invited to the Tabula Rasa beta two weeks after i'd given in and started WoW. I Had been waiting and waiting for a decent Sci-Fi MMO, and tabula rasa seemed to fit the bill, but i was sick of waiting so i gave in and installed the trial of WoW. After playing Tabula Rasa for 2 hours i went back to WoW.

So is it "different"? (3, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 6 years ago | (#20840907)

I am currently play LOTRO and that game is becoming more and more like a direct WoW clone (not a good thing) so if there is anything that can avoid being a WoW/EQ clone I would welcome it.

So to any who have played it in the trials can you answer me this.

Does it have quests to gather X from Y and then X does not drop in a clear logical pattern?

Does it have items looted for crafting that drop from X that only spawns once in a blue moon if your avatar wears purple?

Is it impossible to craft to your own level (Lotro is very guilty of this) so that by the time you have harvested everything that is needed for a level 12 item, your are level 20?

Is there a reputation grind (we couldn't think of more story quests so now just go kill) that if you calculate the number of kills needed you realize you ain't getting out of the house this year?

Do the game makers put grinders and questers in the same place? (Lotro with its deeds (kill X Y for bonuss stats) often has people at very high levels killing X in low levels areas to get their deed and damned be any players at the right level questing there)

For that matter, does that crafting/loot system encourage, even enforce, farming?

Is there any system in place to deal with gold spammers (SWG has introduced player killing of gold sellers, WoW has finally introduced limits on spam messages, turbine... nothing).

In short, is this any different from the default EQ clone with all the same crap that really should have been elimenated since the days of EQ2? SWG tried, it really did but failed because of bugs ans was then turned into an EQ clone itself.

Don't mention Eve Online to me, I played it.

Re:So is it "different"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20841115)

It has everything you mentioned. Everything. It doesn't even hide it. You have a "Quest Log". They didn't evey try to incorporate it into the setting, like calling it a "mission debriefer" or something.

Play Eve Online.

Re:So is it "different"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20843203)

"Don't mention Eve Online to me, I played it."

played it and probably never left the empire.

Re:So is it "different"? (1)

donatzsky (91033) | more than 6 years ago | (#20844891)

So far I have made it to level 16, so take it with the appropriate amount of salt.

Does it have quests to gather X from Y and then X does not drop in a clear logical pattern?
Yes. No.
Most quests are indeed the age old and unimaginative collect X from Y type of quests, but so far, with very few exceptions, Y drops every time you kill X, so it's not really that bad.

Does it have items looted for crafting that drop from X that only spawns once in a blue moon if your avatar wears purple?
Not that I have noticed, but then the crafting system currently in place is just a place holder for what should come next week.

Is it impossible to craft to your own level (Lotro is very guilty of this) so that by the time you have harvested everything that is needed for a level 12 item, your are level 20?
See above.

Is there a reputation grind (we couldn't think of more story quests so now just go kill) that if you calculate the number of kills needed you realize you ain't getting out of the house this year?
There's no such thing as WoW-style reputation, if that's what you mean.

Do the game makers put grinders and questers in the same place? (Lotro with its deeds (kill X Y for bonuss stats) often has people at very high levels killing X in low levels areas to get their deed and damned be any players at the right level questing there)
Not really. The game is actually quite linear so far, in that everyone starts in the same place and progresses through the areas in the same order. Once you reach the proper level for the next area you get a quest to go there; at least that's how it works in Wilderness (lvl 1~15) -> Divide (~15-?)

For that matter, does that crafting/loot system encourage, even enforce, farming?
So far no, but as I said higher up the current system is just a place holder, so ask again next Wednesday (patch should be Tuesday).

Is there any system in place to deal with gold spammers (SWG has introduced player killing of gold sellers, WoW has finally introduced limits on spam messages, turbine... nothing).
No idea.

In short, is this any different from the default EQ clone with all the same crap that really should have been elimenated since the days of EQ2? SWG tried, it really did but failed because of bugs ans was then turned into an EQ clone itself.
Yes and no. Most of the basic mechanics are exactly the same i.e. you gain levels and gear through grinding and questing just like in EQ, WoW etc. Where it sets itself apart is in the combat system and the setting.
Combat:
If you have ever played a FPS on a console, using auto-aim, you'll have a pretty good idea of how ranged combat (which is most of it) works: You get your target roughly within your sights, it turns red and you push the trigger. Once you have your target you can push [tab] to lock so you don't have to follow it as much. Other than that you have the usual array of skills you can use. All in all it requires a bit more skill (but not much) than your average MMO due to the FPS like control.
As for the Logos: So far they are nothing but requirements in order to train and use your skills and not really all that interesting, but as there's an awful lot of them this may change.
Setting:
A battlefield. And I mean it - The closest thing to Orgrimmar is a military base which, although it does have a tavern, is very military-like and boring (Well, the loudspeaker-announcements are hilarious). Once you go outside the gates it's trenches, artillery bombardments and enemy patrols. Actually the setting may be TR's greatest asset: In WoW you may have this largish bit of land with a bunch of monsters walking mindlessly around until they spot you. In TR it seems like everyone has a purpose, even if it's just guarding some crossroad; for the most part the enemies don't just appear out of thin air, but get flown in by dropship; NPCs may spawn in when you take some particular piece of territory and so on. On the whole it's a grim, reasonably realistic world.

Is it worth spending your money on?
Based on the open beta so far I would say that you probably won't regret buying the retail package and playing the month that gives you, but whether it is worth spending $16 on every month very much depends on what post-release will bring. Apparently the plan is to release content every three months.

Don't mention Eve Online to me, I played it.
I haven't played it, so I won't :)

Re:So is it "different"? (1)

FlyveHest (105693) | more than 6 years ago | (#20849649)

Don't mention Eve Online to me, I played it


I didn't, you did :)

But, in my experience, having played and researched on a LOT of MMORPGs outthere, both existing and upcoming, then, Eve is the only game that really offers a different experience from WoW and its ilk.

Played the beta... nothing to see here, move along (2, Insightful)

freshmayka (1043432) | more than 6 years ago | (#20841975)

Richard Garriot created a legendary series of games - decades ago. He's not cut out for modern game development in my opinion. For all his proclamations about Tabula Rasa being so different, new, unique, etc. etc... it's absolutely NOT new or unique. It's a sci-fi online shooter with sub-par production values and some gimmicky ideas which don't provide enough fun to warrant a monthly subscription.

Sadly the game COULD have been a refreshing change of course IF it had better production values and more entertaining.... awww hell it's just trash there's no saving it, move along... move along...

Re:Played the beta... nothing to see here, move al (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20845787)

It's a sci-fi online shooter with sub-par production values and some gimmicky ideas which don't provide enough fun to warrant a monthly subscription.

But is it better than the fantasy online RPGs with sub-par production values and some gimmicky ideas which don't provide enough fun to warrant a monthly subscription that it will be competing with?

Re:Played the beta... nothing to see here, move al (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20846849)

It's not a shooter, knucklehead. Go back to hating Space Giraffe.

TR an average MMO? (1)

Osmosis_Garett (712648) | more than 6 years ago | (#20843361)

When I first heard of this game, oh... 6 odd years ago I guess now, it was lauded as the 'next thing' in MMOs. There was much talk about it being a planetary scale RTS type game with land claims, sieges, science fiction, and diplomacy. As this game nears release (after the xth delay), its become clear that this is nothing more than every other MMO mixed together with a few twists but still taking everything that seems to work in the other popular MMOs of the day. Does anyone else remember UO2? That game had a lot more potential than whatever this is turning out to be. Any game coming out right now is committing some sort of suicide anyway, what with AOC and Warhammer just around the corner (warhammer directly targeting the WOW crowd, and AOC addressing the adult crowd). If TR were to actually be holding true to its original promises of a uniquely RTS-styled territorial diplomacy based MMO, I think they'd have a great niche to fit into and could well succeed... but to come out as a new brand of Vanilla is just absurd, but at this point of development, i guess they have no choice but to put that ship into the water, sink OR float.

Good luck with that, I'll be watching with interested how quickly subscriptions drop on day 31.

Re:TR an average MMO? (1)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 6 years ago | (#20848985)

If TR were to actually be holding true to its original promises of a uniquely RTS-styled territorial diplomacy based MMO, I think they'd have a great niche to fit into and could well succeed... ...with some competition from EVE Online. Which has RTS-styled conquest of territory in space and diplomacy between players as a by-product.
But there are enough players who miss running around in their avatars (Eve only shows the ship and a small portrait in the chat window) that there might be room for a second RTS-styled MMORPG. At least until CCP gets its "ambulation project" into the game ;-)
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