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Copy Protection Backfires on Blu-ray

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the won't-wait-two-minutes-for-a-movie dept.

Media 378

An anonymous reader writes "The first two Blu-ray releases to hit the market encrypted with BD+ (an extra layer of protection designed to stave off hackers) are wreaking havoc on innocent consumers. As High-Def Digest reports, this week's Blu-ray releases of 'Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer' and 'The Day After Tomorrow' won't play back at all on at least two Blu-ray players, while load times on other players (including the PS3) are delayed by up to two minutes. 'The most severe problems have been reported on Samsung's BDP-1200 and LG's BH100, which are both said to be incapable of playing back the discs at all. Less catastrophic issues (error messages and playback stutter) have been reported for Samsung's BDP-1000. The discs appear to play back fine on all other Blu-ray players ... Calls placed to both Samsung and LG customer support revealed that both manufacturers are aware of the issue, and that both are working on firmware updates to correct it. Samsung promised a firmware update within 'a couple' weeks, while LG said an update is expected in 3-4 days.'"

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Obligatory (1, Redundant)

eggman9713 (714915) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856769)

Hackers will circumvent this whole thing again in 3...2....1....

Re:Obligatory (0)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856935)

0.5... 0.4... 0.3... 0.25... 0.24...

Re:Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857343)

> 0.5... 0.4... 0.3... 0.25... 0.24...

09... F9... 11... 02...

Re:Obligatory (5, Insightful)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857003)

Many players are upgradeable. For both HD and Blueray, you should make sure yours has an online upgrade capability. We know they're going to mess with the protection continuously - that was a given when the general public accepted HD-DVD and Blueray as viable formats.

The Fantastic Four Silver Surfer Blueray version of the movie played back fine on my PS3, no delays or other evidence of handling problems. It was fine for a comic adaptation. Don't know what everyone is bitching about as far as the movie itself goes - it isn't like the Fantastic Four was either great art or great writing in the first place. This isn't a McFarlane production (i.e., not Spawn, which was a tour de force.)

I remember giving someone a really blank look when they said that "Dumb and Dumber" was a "dumb movie." Same thing kind of applies here. You don't get a Fantastic Four movie in order to broaden your critical faculties.

Re:Obligatory (5, Interesting)

laing (303349) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857251)

I am a member of the general public and I have *NOT* accepted HD-DVD or Blueray as viable formats. I have been waiting for something else to come along that promises my ability to view HD movies that I buy on future players. Part of the DRM system incorporated into both standards will "bind" the discs to the players and play them at reduced resolution in any other player. What happens when my player wears out? Must I re-purchase my entire movie collection?

JSL

--
This space for rent.

Re:Obligatory (5, Insightful)

provigilman (1044114) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857389)

When your player wears out? How about people that happen to have two? I have a DVD player (I know, I haven't upgraded either) on my TV in the Living Room, and then another in the form of one of several consoles down in my basement. There have been plenty of movies that I've watched in one room, and then watched in the other at a later date. Now I have to buy a second copy?

Hell, this is one of the reasons that I already gave up on Apple and their DRM laden music. When my wife buys an MP3, which would be joint property in a legal sense, and we can't have it on both our iPods simultaneously, that's just stupid.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DRM, where pirates watch everything with ease while you have to jump through hoop after hoop just to listen to/watch something that you legitimately purchased. Enjoy the show...while your player still works that is.

Re:Obligatory (2, Insightful)

the_tsi (19767) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857273)

"This isn't a McFarlane production (i.e., not Spawn, which was a tour de force.)"

It may have amazing character design and art, but come on, the story was written by a drop-out mouthbreather who wouldn't recognize a cliche if he was reading a wikipedia page called "List of Cliches in Literature". Face it, McFarlane is a dunce who can draw pretty.

Well (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20856775)

The players are probably programmed not to play shitty movies

If you fuckers didn't STEAL their shit we wouldn't (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857289)

If you fuckers didn't STEAL their shit we wouldn't have to suffer this. It's always the assholes. yeah, YOU !!

Couldn't a hacker... (1)

jbarr (2233) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856779)

...conceivably also create a firmware update to ALLOW playback? Or would this be too device-specific?

Re:Couldn't a hacker... (1)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856811)

Don't you mean, 'allow copying?' ...I think being device-specific in that case wouldn't be too bad.

Re:Couldn't a hacker... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856997)

Yeah. Once you've gotten consumers used to the idea that it's even acceptable that they have to flash the firmware on a DVD player, that leaves the door wide open for hacks.

If hackers wanted to be mean, they would release their own firmware versions just for the havoc that would be caused when players get their keys revoked.

hollywood's perfect anti-theft technique (5, Insightful)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856787)

Make movies so bad, nobody will pirate them.

The thing that's so darkly amusing to me is that if I was interested in viewing these movies, pirating would be zero-hassle. It's only when I try to view them legally that I get dicked over.

Re:hollywood's perfect anti-theft technique (3, Funny)

Cecil (37810) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856843)

It's true, it works. I doubt anyone pirated E.T. the game [wikipedia.org] ... although anyone who bought it probably wished they had...

Re:hollywood's perfect anti-theft technique (2, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856931)

Make movies so bad, nobody will pirate them.
Too bad it doesn't seem to work for the RIAA...

Re:hollywood's perfect anti-theft technique (1)

slazzy (864185) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857125)

Yeah, download a divx from a torrent site - and it plays fine. Funny how that works.

Only the RIAA could match this stupidity (5, Funny)

nrich239 (790194) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856791)

From the head of the MPAA: "I KNOW! Lets put so much protection on the new discs that people can't even watch the movie! That'll stop those pesky pirates..."

Re:Only the RIAA could match this stupidity (5, Insightful)

Starteck81 (917280) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857019)

MPAA Underling: Sir, unfortunately the pirates cracked the 'no play protection' within 24 hrs and are now the only ones that can watch the movies.

Re:Only the RIAA could match this stupidity (5, Funny)

cstdenis (1118589) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857229)

Excellent. Now we know anyone watching one of our movies is a pirate and can sue them more easily.

This just in (5, Funny)

MyNameIsEarl (917015) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856801)

This just in: Sony now says playing a Bluray disc you just purchased is pirating. More to come.

Re:This just in (5, Funny)

Necreia (954727) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856845)

You just have to close one eye... both open is considered double-viewing.

Re:This just in (1)

Amouth (879122) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857333)

ok that has to be the best comment of the month right there..

Intelligent chip! (4, Funny)

jacobcaz (91509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856807)

Obviously Blu-Ray DVD owners should have bought an Intelligent Chip [machinadynamica.com] and this wouldn't have happened. The "quantum material" would have upgraded and fixed all of their problems! :-)

This is a problem? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20856813)

Preventing people from having to watch Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer should be commended as a public service.

Go ahead, niggers. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20856815)

anyone that mods this post down is a nigger!

Re:Go ahead, niggers. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20856939)

What about sand niggers?

Re:Go ahead, niggers. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857063)

What about sand niggers?

Excellent question. They're less niggery than standard-issue niggers, but niggers nonetheless. They're also batshit insane rather than lazy and shiftless, though, so you have to be careful.

Re:Go ahead, niggers. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857071)

In United Arab Emirates, sand niggers mod YOU down!

Re:Go ahead, niggers. (0, Offtopic)

loafing_oaf (1054200) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857235)

Thilo, is that you?

What did the little nigglet get for xmas? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857309)

My bike!!!!

Why firmware updates? (5, Insightful)

ktappe (747125) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856825)

Why is this on the drive manufacturers to fix when all previous discs played? Isn't this on the shoulders of the disc manufacturers, to produce discs that are playable? By promising firmware fixes, aren't the player manufacturers both diminishing their brand value in the eyes of consumers and also opening themselves up to a lot of headaches when other discs don't play a month or a year from now due to even more envelope-pushing protection?

Re:Why firmware updates? (0, Flamebait)

Svenne (117693) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856941)

All previous discs played just fine because they weren't encumbered with BD+. Is it really that hard to read the first sentence of the summary?

Re:Why firmware updates? (3, Informative)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857157)

I think, the question was rather why the burden of "fixing" is on the player manufacturers instead of the media companies who refuse to stick with standards? Just because it's always been that way (when the first crippled CDs (sorry, Phillips, "disks resembling CDs but breaking the standard" it was also on the drive manufacturers to provide a solution instead of simply saying (rightfully), that the CD does not adhere to specs and should go to hell)?

The thing is, BD+ IS part of the standard (2, Informative)

gozu (541069) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857539)

BD+ is actually part of the BluRay standard, as is AACS. Just like DecSS was part of the DVD-Video standard.

It's a brave new world, son.

Re:Why firmware updates? (4, Informative)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856999)

These discs will presumably play on any player that correctly implements BD+. If a player has a bug in its BD+ implementation, it will need a firmware update to fix it. Since these are the first two discs released with BD+, they're the first one to really test it in the field.

Re:Why firmware updates? (3, Insightful)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857321)

Of course, this assumes mightily that the BD+ discs themselves are properly authored and coded....

Re:Why firmware updates? (2, Informative)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857495)

Since these are the first two discs released with BD+, they're the first one to really test it in the field.
I recall that the DVD release of The Matrix did a shake-down of compatible players as well. I personally know that Apple's DVD player software of the time was incompatible with the Follow the White Rabbit feature.

Re:Why firmware updates? (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857027)

With the vast majority of players being able to play the discs, it sounds like the players are at fault, not the discs.

Re:Why firmware updates? (2, Informative)

nege (263655) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857033)

I would imagine that the problem IS with the player manufacturer. It seems like they didnt fully implement BD+ in their players as they should have done. Probably due to a combination of rushing the market to product without fully testing and coding for the spec, thinking "ah, we can fix that in a patch later, it plays regular blu-ray fine for now".

When all the other players except 2 work, it seems to point more to a problem with the players than the disks.

Of course, this whole crappy thing could be avoided by not using shitty DRM in the first place.

Re:Why firmware updates? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857039)

This is about as amusing as the heavily encrypted Disney DVDs that popped up the Parental Controls Password dialogue on my very old DVD player. (NOTE: parental controls were never set on this player) Kids could watch the 'hard-core' PG rated movies, but not those G-rated ones from Disney. (Oh the horror!)

Re:Why firmware updates? (1)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857047)

I think they got an offer they could not reject.

Bad car analogy (1, Insightful)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857387)

You see, this is just as if a car manufacturer declared their cars can go only on a special type of road surface without publishing this first, and then told people that they need to have their cities upgrade the roads first...

Back in the days, the product would be simply sent back as defective and the manufacturers sued for false advertising...

thanks (5, Funny)

syrinx (106469) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856827)

this week's Blu-ray releases of 'Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer' and 'The Day After Tomorrow' won't play back at all on at least two Blu-ray players

That's awfully nice of them. Maybe they'll extend the service to the complete works of Uwe Boll next.

Re:thanks (1)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857263)

I got a player you might be interesting in; it plays nothing at all.

Against any reasonable offer.

Here's a thought (4, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856893)

Use regular DVDs to subsidize the cost of selling Blu-Ray disks at the same cost as a regular DVD. In this newest format war, the first company to do this may end up setting the standard because they would have the cheaper movies. Right now, every next-gen DVD I've seen costs about $30 new. If all new Blu-Ray suddenly hit $20 through subsidies from regular DVDs, HD would probably be up shit creek...

Re:Here's a thought (3, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857073)

I don't follow. Why couldn't the HD-DVD supporters use exactly the same tactic?

where do you buy your DVD's? (-1, Redundant)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857199)

Right now, every next-gen DVD I've seen costs about $30 new.

Walmart sells brand new release DVD's for $15-$20. I priced the 4 most recent releases (and 4 most recent pending releases) from IMDB.com and they all clocked in under $20, save for "Roots".

Re:where do you buy your DVD's? (0, Troll)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857537)

Well that's becaus offensive content is filtered in Walmart DVDs. The saves comes from the deleted scenes!

Interesting Timing (4, Insightful)

zjbs14 (549864) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856907)

Given the pace of these things being cracked, there's a good chance the torrents will be available before the new player firmware will.

Re:Interesting Timing (1)

dattaway (3088) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857451)

No big loss for those who bought the players and discs. At least the players are worth their money as parts for the laser on ebay.

"Broken bluray player, laser still works."

That's the real test (4, Insightful)

IPFreely (47576) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857487)

This is what Sony really wants to know. The tech problems are only a side effect and a distraction. They can be fixed.

What Sony desparately needs to know right now is whether BD+ is going to hold or fold. They are watching those torrents very closely.

BD+ was one of their main selling point to the studios. If it fails it can't be fixed, and they could lose studio support. That would be crippling to their format.

Don't call it until you can see it on your monitor. All else is rhetoric.

The First Step... (2, Funny)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856913)

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer' and 'The Day After Tomorrow' won't play back at all[...]
Wow, how awesome is that? I really hope that Sony continues to deliver this level of customer service. Now that they've begun blocking such "films", they need to work out how to make watching the worthwhile ones mandatory.

Updates? (1)

sqrt(2) (786011) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856919)

I'm not familiar with how these new devices work. How does the firmware get updated? Are you required to connect them to the internet just to use a Blu-ray player?

Re:Updates? (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857051)

> How does the firmware get updated?

Typically you download it and burn a DVD (a regular non-HD one) with a standard filesystem and a magic filename (like FIRMWARE.DAT or whatever) in the root directory, then stick the DVD in the drive. If you don't have a burner, you have them mail the disc to you.

Re:Updates? (2, Informative)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857423)

Pardon, usually it's a CD and not a DVD. Seems to work with either on my player though -- it just looks for the magic file, regardless of what you stick in it. Most people with computers have CD burners, even my laptop burns CDs.

Re:Updates? (1)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857119)

How does the firmware get updated?

Either the device downloads it over the Net or the vendor mails you a CD or you download a firmware file and burn it to CD, etc.

Are you required to connect them to the internet just to use a Blu-ray player?

No.

Re:Updates? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857413)

I'm not familiar with how these new devices work. How does the firmware get updated? Are you required to connect them to the internet just to use a Blu-ray player?

Three words: Authorized Service Representative.

I had a problem with my Toshiba DVD player waaaay back in about 99 that required a firmware patch. Take it to who you bought it from, they send it out, it gets fixed and sent back.

Though, mine "fell off the truck", so the retailer just gave me a brand new model of the next model up.

Cheers

...firmware update? (5, Interesting)

TruePoindexter (975295) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856951)

A firmware update? For my bluray player? Yeah because the average consumer will know how to do this or even be aware of the possibility.

Re:...firmware update? (1)

Necreia (954727) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857121)

Oh, they'll "learn" once they call support for the movies. We need more of this to wake up consumers.

Re:...firmware update? (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857547)

You know, I somehow wish my dad would've bought it (I managed to talk him out of it). He has neither a computer, nor internet, nor any inclination to get either, but he bought the player, so he wants it to work.

Just listening to the conversation would've been worth the money.

And I guess a few more people like my dad do exist. People who want a standalone HDDVD/BluRay player for the simple reason that they don't want to fiddle with firmware updates, drivers or other "computer crap" they don't care about. They're used to having some machine in their living room that plays movies. It worked for VHS. It worked for DVD. When it suddenly doesn't work, they'll start questioning whether "newer==better" still applies.

And finally, we'll get them to listen.

So... (1)

Ryukotsusei (1164453) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856963)

Another anti-piracy measure proving to cause more lost profits than it was supposed to prevent?

Small Consolation (4, Insightful)

camusflage (65105) | more than 6 years ago | (#20856969)

Samsung promised a firmware update within 'a couple' weeks, while LG said an update is expected in 3-4 days.'"

I'm sure that will be of great consolation to folks who rented the movies and have four "nights" (which most people refer to as three days) to have the movie back before getting hit with PMITA late charges.

Do your worst, niggers. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20856973)

Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the "dark" side will be complete.

Niggers.

Only a two minute wait? (3, Funny)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857009)

Geez, it's at least ten times that at my local theater!

Re:Only a two minute wait? (1)

kc2keo (694222) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857315)

I hear you loud and clear man... You gotta sit through 5 car commercials, 1 caveman Gieco car commercial, 3 ridiculously old theater safety commercials (They tell you about exit signs located in the front and rear of the theater. Thing is there are exits only at the front and none exist in the back.), then finally you get to sit and watch 10+ mins of coming attractions before getting to the movie.

this is really turning me away from HD movies (4, Insightful)

SpecialAgentXXX (623692) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857025)

I really like watching movies and was excited about purchasing a BluRay and/or HD-DVD player when they came out. But I decided to wait and see and have the companies work out the kinks. Well it's over a year later and there are still problems. When the main focus is not on enhancing the paying customer's experience, but on padding the pockets of the media execs, this is what you get. I should be #1 in their minds. After all, it doesn't matter how much DRM they put in their product if no one buys it.

So, these media firms have lost a faithful, paying customer. I refuse to buy all of their DRM'd HD crap. Since my HTPC upscaler looks almost as nice as HD, I'll just stick with regular DVDs until, if ever, the DRM crap is done away with. And since you can also record broadcast HD shows, there's no need to shell out another $30 to get the HD-version of a show compared to the regular SD DVD version.

Re:this is really turning me away from HD movies (2, Informative)

Fezmid (774255) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857249)

Well, while HD DVD does have some DRM in it, it's nowhere near as restrictive as Blu-Ray. For example, there's no Image Constraint Token (ICT), so you can actually watch HD DVD movies over component video (not sure if you can with Blu-Ray, maybe you can). Ironically, you need HDMI to upconvert SD DVD.

In addition, while Best Buy charges MSRP for disks, you can get them on Amazon for far cheaper -- most in the $19.99 range, but some in the $27.99 range.

While upconverting is nice, it's really nowhere near as good as an HD DVD, especially if you have a decent sound system -- it's not just picture that's improved, the audio is as well.

In addition, HD DVD isn't region coded, so you can buy a disk from anywhere in the world and watch it. Ironically, Silver Surfer will be available on HD DVD in a month or so from overseas, possibly just in time for honest US BD customers to watch it ;)

Bob Villa: (1)

valkabo (840034) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857029)

Well Norm, one more nail should really finish this one off. [Display a coffin, in the shape of the word Sony]

Question (2, Insightful)

dedazo (737510) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857031)

Maybe I'm behind the times here, but how the hell do you flash an appliance to update the firmware? Do they have USB ports now or is it a special disc and some weird command from the remote?

Re:Question (2, Informative)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857153)

Well, I caved and got an HD-DVD player for the Heroes Season 1 box set. In my case, it has an Ethernet port in the back. Once you hook it up and go to the settings screen you can download the latest update. While I had no problem with it, I was kind of surprised how difficult they made my player to setup online. It's not like a plug and play: you have to specify if you want DHCP or static, which right away screws over anyone not computer-savvy.

Re:Question (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857455)

Hook it up to what?

Again, back to my parents. They neither have a computer nor internet. Telling my dad to get internet or computer (or even both) just to see a movie... nooooo, you'll do that, I certainly won't!

On the one hand... (1)

sootman (158191) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857045)

... crap like this just might upset enough people that change happens. Waiting two minutes to watch a movie on a $600 PS3 is ridiculous by anyone's standards, and I'm sure it will continue to get worse. Things might, just possibly, get bad enough that the MAFIAA throttles back a bit.

On the other hand, two decades of DOS and Windows have taught most of the world that crashes, freezes, and data loss are just how computers work--when in reality, a properly-designed system will rarely crash OR lose data--and having one core on a 2-way system dedicated anti-everything software is normal, so who knows what the hell we'll see in the future. Maybe one day we'll be telling our kids how fucking GREAT it was to only have to wait through a few moments of unskippable warnings, trailers, and menus on SD-DVDs.

Re:On the one hand... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857401)

Ohhh, big fallacy. Not everyone that wants to watch movies has a computer and thus is used to constant crashes. In Europe, the big internet hype didn't take off until the millenium, so people are less used to constant lockups and bluescreens, they went onto the computer with Win2k, which is by heaps more stable than the whole Win9x line.

Not to mention the rather large crowd of people who don't have computers and don't care about them, but who do have VHS recorders and (now or soon) DVD players and HDDVD players. My parents, for example. Yes, they like watching movies, but the closest my dad gets to a computer is the cruise control in his car.

Now explain to him, someone who had VHS but no computers, that suddenly he should wait for 2 minutes for his movie to start, or that some movies miraculously fail to play, and that slapping it won't fix it.

Knowing my dad, he'll probably cause a small riot in the store where he bought the crap.

Smackin Down The Competition...Maybe (2, Interesting)

blueZhift (652272) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857049)

Is it just coincidence that the affected players are from Samsung and LG, two Korean electronics giants that happen to be among Sony's biggest competitors? I'm just sayin...that's all...

Re:Smackin Down The Competition...Maybe (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857531)

Yes, it is a coincidence. Like the Audio CD and DVD, Blu-ray was/is an industry consortium effort. HD-DVD is the product with only one major hardware company (Toshiba) supporting it.

DRM is just plain bad business... (4, Interesting)

Jennifer York (1021509) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857087)

Why punish the people who actually pay for your product? The only way to suffer from this is if you purchased a copy, the people who are downloading this are free of the pain... It's like they _want_ you to pirate it. They are creating a system with incentives for illegal copying.

This is one of the reasons I don't care about this format war, they both are wrong headed... I want content delivered over the wire (or wireless, you get the idea).

Re:DRM is just plain bad business... (4, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857307)

That's exactly the crucial problem with DRM: It devaluates the commodity. From the user point of view, content that was stripped of DRM is more valuable than content still retaining it. If nothing else, content without DRM plays without a 2 minute delay. It plays in every player.

It's almost like going to a store for a new computer and the clerk tells you "well, you could buy it, but only if you steal it you got warranty".

Let HD-DVD Win (0, Troll)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857105)

While I consider the BluRay system superior, I'd rather see HD-DVD win the format wars. And if the availability of a viable alternative causes fear and quaking at Sony, that's as it should be.

DON'T SUPPORT DRAM WITH YOUR DOLLARS!

Re:Let HD-DVD Win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857299)

What about SDRAM? I don't even know what kind of RAM isn't DRAM these days...

Re:Let HD-DVD Win (1)

zsouthboy (1136757) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857445)

DON'T SUPPORT DRAM WITH YOUR DOLLARS!

Fine, I'll go buy some SRAM instead - that comes in stick form, right?

Dear media industry: (1)

freeweed (309734) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857155)

Why not just let us play our legally purchased content?

That radical business method seemed to work just fine in the days of VHS and DVD (region encoding aside).

Yours truly,

Someone who pirates these days, because at least that WORKS out of the box.

Re:Dear media industry: (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857267)

When something like this would've been available when VHS was standard, do you really think they wouldn't have done it? With the DVD, they already started to try it, only to fail when Jon broke through their protection, and behold, immediately they sued.

Just because earlier something didn't exist doesn't mean the content industry was more "lenient" or "consumer friendly" earlier, or even "satisfied with what they had".

Firmware updates!? To my DVD Player? (4, Interesting)

arkham6 (24514) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857165)

Dear God, what the hell is this crap? Are we now to allow manufacturers to produce shoddy equipment and promise 'firmware' fixes down the line? That is totaly unreasonable. I should not have to patch my DVD player, update my receiver, or flash my TV.

I should be able to buy some equipment, plug it in and watch my movies. thats it.

That this is a necessity was a given. (2, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857225)

Simply because as soon as they start "revoking" keys, yours could be amongst them, so you have to be able to somehow "upgrade" your ... waitaminute, isn't that key one of those things that can't be flashed?

Say, what happens when a key from a standalone BluRay Player (or, let's play it out a little, the PS3 one) gets revoked? You have a rather expensive brick?

Well, maybe not (2, Insightful)

androvsky (974733) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857171)

I know this is slashdot, so if anything goes wrong we must blame any copyright protection schemes in place, but according to insiders, it's actually a problem with blu-ray's java, and the players that are having problems just need a firmware update. And according to people with ps3s and the movie, the ps3 plays them fine, note how the article says the load times are *up to* two minutes. Don't you just love it when people leave things nice and vague so you can make the situation sound much better/worse than it really is? Although I'm a blu-ray fan, I'm not really apologizing (problems are problems), I thought I'd clarify, especially the bit about the ps3. I wouldn't know anything first hand, I don't like either movie, and Fox tends to charge too much for their blu-ray movies anyway.

hello mpaa, riaa (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857183)

if you treat everyone like a criminal, everyone will become a criminal

if you make the lives of good decent people miserable, while not doing anything to effectively counteract the effort of pirates, then good decent people will resort to piracy, as the pirates are getting better more functional versions with less limitations of your product than good decent paying customers are getting

wake up morons

They are lucky (1)

JeremyGNJ (1102465) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857211)

I saw "the Day After Tomorrow" They're better off returning it. It would be more fun to put on snow shoes and walk from south jersey to New York City in sub-zero weather.

I've got a great idea, guys! (1)

thegnu (557446) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857243)

Why don't these companies BUNDLE the encrypted Blu-Ray discs with ANOTHER disc that ACTUALLY WORKS! but the customer has to SUPER SUPER PINKY SWEAR not to use that one unless the other one doesn't work? Then you could build ANOTHER chip into the drive that BLOWS UP the consumer's HOUSE unless he tries the ENCRYPTED disk FIRST!

That sounds like a great idea! Somebody patent it, quick, and let's make some money! :D

*tries disc*
*scree scree scree scree*
*waits*
*scratches head*
*tries backup disc*
*scree scree scree BOOM!*

Um. (1)

neimon (713907) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857275)

Did the manufacturer even TRY to play the damned discs? I mean, I've had software that it was obvious the programmer assumed that every computer on earth was exactly like hirs, but crap on a cracker, what the hell is wrong with a little QA?

Oh wait. I know. I can see the sales manager yelling "SHIP IT, IT WORKED ONCE!"

Re:Um. (1)

Giggles Of Doom (267141) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857491)

Indeed. It seems like they are doing a little to come up wit hthe firmware fixes, but only after the disc has been released. Plus, with the firmware fixes I would imagine that sooner or later a new version will break older movies.

Anyone hear of DVD players needing to be flashed? What's so different this time around?

Awful nice of them (4, Interesting)

Selfbain (624722) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857285)

The more they do stupid things like this, the better I feel when I pirate.

Two minutes... (1)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857303)

Considering the time you spend watching non-skippable anti-piracy ads and copyright notices on regular DVDs, two minutes of just a black screen would definitely be my option of choice.

Good! (1)

headhot (137860) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857329)

well the Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer was the worst movie ever [blogspot.com] , so they are doing some people a favor.

Punish the paying customer... (4, Insightful)

Gadzinka (256729) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857353)

Both the movies mentioned are long available as torrents all over the web. And HDCP protecting the transfer between various HD STB and HD TVs was broken [wikipedia.org] before it was even finalized and small boxes decrypting HDMI signal on the fly are available in various shady places.

Meanwhile a paying customer cannot play the crappy, overpriced movies on his overpriced video player. And my national HD Sat operator's STBs still cannot authenticate via HDMI with my LG LCD. Which is not good, since HDMI/HDCP is a requirement for their VOD HD content...

Screw'em, gotta go and see what's new on trakcers...

Robert

mod D0wn (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20857361)

polite to brin6 it5 readers and

Two minutes. (1)

spacefight (577141) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857391)

My ass, their system is broken for sure. How do these people sleep at night, selling all that crap to consumers?

No product testing? (2, Insightful)

Mr. Samuel (950418) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857403)

You'd really think that, given they were releasing discs that work differently, they would test them out on currently available BR players. It's not like there's that many out there (to my knowledge). I wonder if there's any coordination at all between the software people and various hardware manufacturers (including Sony) in this area. What a stupid, stupid mess this HD crap has become.

lol (0)

koan (80826) | more than 6 years ago | (#20857429)

That's all just "lol"
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