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Mom Blasts Ballmer Over Kid's Vista Experience

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the i-know-bill-gates-i-call-him-money-for-short dept.

Microsoft 767

Lucas123 writes "While on stage at a Gartner's ITxpo conference today, Ballmer got an ear-full from the mother of a 13-year-old girl who said after installing Vista on her daughter's computer she decided only two days later to switch back to XP because Vista was so difficult. Ballmer defended Vista saying: 'Your daughter saw a lot of value'; to which the mother replied: 'She's 13.' Ballmer said that Vista is bigger than XP, and 'for some people that's an issue, and it's not going to get smaller in any significant way in SP1. But machines are constantly getting bigger, and [it's] probably important to remember that as well.' Says the mother: 'Good, I'll let you come in and install it for me.'"

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+1 Funny (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942703)

Can I mod the submission?

Re:+1 Funny (0)

Nosklo (815041) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942865)

From TFA:

fewer issues with Windows Vista in its first six months than any OS that preceded it.
Can I mod TFA? -1 FREAKIN LIE!

Re:+1 Funny (5, Funny)

halcyon1234 (834388) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942921)

I think this article would have been funnier if it was as I first read it-- that STEVE'S Mom showed up and bitched him out.

Re:+1 Funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943053)

This was some serious pwnage.

I didn't think anybody could criticize Ballmer in public without getting at least one chair stuck in the head. This can only mean one thing: Ballmer has now made mechanical clones that are set on stun (by the inanity of its claims).

A lot of value... (4, Insightful)

mind21_98 (18647) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942707)

...in learning something difficult?

Ballmer's comment seems really prick-like to me. It probably wasn't meant as such, but still.

Re:A lot of value... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942867)

The article is a bit terse, but Ballmer meant that her daughter saw a lot of value when she looked at her friend's install of Vista...enough value that she immediately went home and told her mom "I've got to have that!"

Re:A lot of value... (1)

humina (603463) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943169)

Is there a video of the exchange? It would help to see the inflections and emphasis of their questions and responses. I looked but came up empty. Anyone?

Re:A lot of value... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943177)

Sadly, the value she saw was equivalent to cakes, chocolates, and candy, and soon became sick of the sugar and just wanted same damn food.

Re:A lot of value... (5, Funny)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942897)

Quite clearly, you've never tried using gadgets. Gadgets are the paradigm-shift (I hope I can still use that word) we've all been waiting for.

Why I myself am about to ditch OS X in favor of gadget... err Vista.

If you can't see the insurmountable value of gadgets, and that their existence warrants a 7 year development cycle, multiple delays and feature reduction not to mention complete industry IT overhaul and user re-training, then, you sir are not a visionary, and should promptly log out of this site, and clear your history.

Good riddance I say!

Re:A lot of value... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943179)

Gadgets are not a new thing by any means. I have had gadgets running on my desktop for 2 years prior to Vista; I use fluxbox slit.

Re:A lot of value... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942917)

...in learning something difficult?

Ballmer's comment seems really prick-like to me. It probably wasn't meant as such, but still.


The kid wasn't having difficulty, the mother was.

From her comments, I doubt she even installed XP. It probably came preinstalled, and her complaint is with the complexity of installing any OS.

Ballmer's comment was spot-on - the daughter saw value in Vista's widgets - and the mother's response was fallacious and nonsensical ("She's 13" - so what, her opinion means nothing, while her ignorant, incapable mother's should be taken seriously? Children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way.)

The Emperor's New Operating System (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942945)

Ballmer's comment seems really prick-like to me. It probably wasn't meant as such, but still.

She pointed out what everyone's common sense has been telling them, but they've been ignoring for years.

Ironic how she points out how safe and secure the originally very buggy XP is now a comfort zone and Vista is not.

RTFA, tard. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943017)

She pointed out
[SNIP]

Good job being a summary-reading poseur. You clearly didn't read ONE WORD OF THE ACTUAL ARTICLE, and you have no idea what "she pointed out".

<rant> (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942993)

Poor Ballmer. People still don't know when to keep their mouths shut. I see Vista as a huge improvement over XP. XP must have been one of the most boring, most insecure OS's ever. Absolutely fugly. Doctored grass hills - most users don't even care to change the wallpaper - looking absolutely grossly unnatural. No way that those are real.
And how would I respond to someone who said something like that Mom from the story if it were about some linux distro? IRL, I'd say something like, "Well. TOUGH luck," on the internets I'd have said "STFU RTFM n00b."
These nutjobs don't have a case. As if Windows XP were the be-all-end-all of UIs. It's definitely not, and to someone who was used to the ways that were before, the rearrangements were mildly confusing as well. Took you all of two minutes to get used to them, or less.
And "learning a UI" IS BY NO MEANS DIFFICULT DAMMIT.
All you guys who think that Vista is POS and therefore stick to XP are seriously out of your minds. If you don't like Aero and the additional load it creates so that games run a little slower than they used to - have you tried turning Aero off?
OTOH, I really agree that they absolutely shouldn't have abandoned OpenGL, but have they really? It's not like the OS is running under a hypervisor that absolutely prevents OpenGL from being used, is it?
As for DRM, it was there in Windows XP as well. You can ignore it very easily. Nothing prevents me from writing a multimedia player that supports DRM for any other OS (except for laziness perhaps).
And yes, I have used Vista.
I think I'll just cut it off here. Bye.
</rant>

Re:A lot of value... (5, Informative)

RonnyJ (651856) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943049)

Ballmer's comment seems really prick-like to me. It probably wasn't meant as such, but still.

From the article: Ballmer was good-natured about the critique as he defended the operating system.

buy more chairs, Uncle Steve's coming over! (0, Offtopic)

swschrad (312009) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942709)

once Uncle Steve starts trying to get the printer working, he'll throw a lot more chairs than he does in his office....

funeral's saturday (5, Funny)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942717)

The mom's body was later found floating in a river. The cause of death: chair-related injuries.

Re:funeral's saturday (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943153)

I'm surprised is wasn't tasor related trauma. Oh wait, that only happens when you call out democratic ex-presidential front runnings that are giving speeches. My bad,

cue (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942719)

Cue the transcription of the rest of the argument with Ballmer throwing chairs at the woman and her 13 year old in 3...2...1..

Am I reading that right? (5, Insightful)

techpawn (969834) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942731)

Ballmer said that Vista is bigger than XP, and 'for some people that's an issue, and it's not going to get smaller in any significant way in SP1. But machines are constantly getting bigger, and [it's] probably important to remember that as well.'
Does that sound like they're proud to be bloat and have no plans to reduce because machines are getting bigger?

Re:Am I reading that right? (5, Insightful)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942855)

Does that sound like they're proud to be bloat and have no plans to reduce because machines are getting bigger?

No, but it makes sense in a twisted way for MS. What are they averaging, 5 years between major releases? When you have that long between releases you have to balance the featureset you want to include against the fact that it's going to be a long time before the next OS release. As a result, it makes sense that you design it such that the full 'experience' will just barely run on a decent new machine at release.

This does illustrate the utility of more frequent releases.

Re:Am I reading that right? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943241)

Left unsaid is Ballmer's thought: Who gives a damn, lady. We've already got your money for Windows, Windows, Windows, Windows Vista. Now shut up or I'll throw a chair at you. The nerve of you saying nonsense in front of our developers, developers, developers, developers. Damn, I wonder how this will affect our advertising, advertising, advertising, advertising.

Re:Am I reading that right? (0)

josephdrivein (924831) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943243)

Are PCs really getting bigger? Last time I checked, electronic devices were getting smaller.

Anyway, following his logic, we should stop improving PCs or someday they'll get so big that Windows will be so complicated that it will make them useless to almost everybody.

Nice try, Steve.

Value = Gadgets (4, Funny)

langelgjm (860756) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942739)

So the "value" that the woman's 13 year-old daughter saw were Vista's gadgets:

My daughter comes in one day and says, 'Hey Mom, my friend has Vista, and it has these neat little things called gadgets -- I need those.'

I'm glad the end-user is seeing so much value in Vista.

Value = Subjective (4, Insightful)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942853)

Selling an OS is, in this respect, not a lot different from selling a car.

Some buy their cars for the greatest reliability. Some for performance or efficiency. Some people buy their car to have the newest and flashiest on the block. Some for safety. Some because they know the brand or it's what their friends have.

And some people just fall in love with the color or, wow, big cupholders or heated seats, and they're sold.

Re:Value = Gadgets (5, Insightful)

RonnyJ (651856) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943125)

I feel it's somewhat hypocritical of the mother to use the fact that her daugher was 13 as a defence - if she really placed little value in her daughter's opinion, she shouldn't have bought it solely on that opinion in the first place.

Re:Value = Gadgets (5, Insightful)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943239)

Precisely. She's not willing to be held accountable for the fact that, in the end, she made the operating system purchase and was not pleased with it. So she's blaming Steve because her precious daughter 'doesn't know any better' ... even though she was apparently the sole motivation for the purchase. It's sad how little personal accountability people have these days.

Re:Value = Gadgets (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943135)

I use exactly one widget in OS-X: a World of Warcraft thingy that looks up stuff for me. I have to admit, it is pretty valuable in the amount of time I save looking for random dudes on huge maps. Then again, I have to question how much "value" there is in the months of my life I've wasted running a little dwarf around the screen ;-)

Re:Value = Gadgets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943201)

I've got widgets on my OS X and I've got widgets on my Linux...
...and Microsoft is the last player to implement a feature, as usual...
I still can't see the value in Microsoft products... well... except their mice... they do make really good mice... but I use a trackball.

He basically told her, "You're wrong." (5, Insightful)

Rimbo (139781) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942743)

If Microsoft were anything other than one of the most dominant monopolies the world has ever seen, this would be a hideous and grave error.

As it is, people just shrug their shoulders and say, "Who is John Galt?"

Re:He basically told her, "You're wrong." (4, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942851)

If Microsoft were anything other than one of the most dominant monopolies the world has ever seen, this would be a hideous and grave error.

As it is, people just shrug their shoulders and say, "Who is John Galt?"

They're probably wondering who let this troublemaking person in here. Don't we screen attendees for product loyalty?

I love how people like Ballmer throw around the word 'value' The product is actually a hook, designed to get you tied into Microsoft's other products and services - Office, MSN, media content through their partners, etc. If it was about an operating system it would fit on one CD, require a few megabytes of memory and be secure. Windows is not an operating system, it's an environment bundled with an operating system.

Re:He basically told her, "You're wrong." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942995)

> As it is, people just shrug their shoulders and say, "Who is John Galt?"

Vista's DRM is only effective insofar as it has the sanction of the victim.

What happens to an operating system when the world's application developers finally go on strike? What happens to the world when Atlas shrugs?

Re:He basically told her, "You're wrong." (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943133)

You know what. Often customers are wrong. That she made a purchase that she regreted is her fault. Ever thought about going to a computer store and USING Vista first? I happen to think Vista kicks ass. I also think XP always was junk, and offered nothing over 2000 but an extended period of support. So I went to KDE on a few flavors of Linux. New laptop, HP was doing deep vista discounts, turned out I really like it. Sometimes I'm lucky too I guess.

The mother didn't even try to find out what gadgets were, or that flavors of them have existed since Borland C for Windows 3.1 came with a dashboard. In a perfect world, she would have downloaded Visual Studio Express VB or C++ and got a few books that she could help her daughter through. And believe me any idiot with a little imagination can slap together a rough VB app in a few minutes to an hour.

Computers demand alot of us now. It's not particularly good, or fair. But there's really no escaping it. Anything with a hundred million lines of code is going to have some corner cases, across a platform of hundreds of millions if not billions of varying machines it's impossible for their not to be more. It's not like everyone isn't aware of this. That the mother failed to adaquately prepare given the obvious, that's her failing.

The New Comment System (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942749)

What combination of features do you need to get this sight to show up properly? It is seemingly impossible to get a simple, nested listing of comments at an arbitrary threshold (e.g., 3). So-called abreviated comments show up even in allegedly "classical" mode. Seriously, WTF? Slashdot is doing more to censor itself than any government entity could dream of.

Translated for the Lay (4, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942755)

"Let's start with the end user. Your daughter saw a lot of value," said Ballmer.

Translation: We spent a lot of money packing it with bloat.

"Users appreciate the value that we put into Vista," he said. But, as with earlier operating system releases, "there is always a tension between the value that end users see -- and frankly, that software developers see -- and the value that we can deliver to IT."

Translation: No matter how many versions we have, it's still one size fits all. The tension is generated because our developers don't lead normal lives and see things the way ordinary people do, which makes the end product obfuscated and confusing

"the most secure release of Windows you can humanly make," said Ballmer. "We have had better security, we have had fewer vulnerabilities, fewer issues with Windows Vista in its first six months than any OS that preceded it.

Translation: We're banking on bloat, the more there is the longer it takes the crackers to find the exploits, but sure as the Sun rises, they will find them because more code has more holes.

"I think there is a lot of value in Vista," he said.

Translation: Stock value. If we didn't come out with a new version of Windows everyone had to buy every few years our stock value would drop. We have to keep addicts supplied.

"When we initially shipped, fewer device drivers were ready for Vista than I would have liked, but we constantly worked with the device vendors to get new drivers available and implemented through our Windows update service," he said.

Translation: We rushed it to market. If we had waited until it was really ready we would have seen our stock drop. The premature release was purely driven by profit motives rather than care for our customers.

"We are in, from ... a corporate and enterprise side, an early adoption cycle," said Ballmer.

Translation: Revenue generating cycle - Bleeding edge, counting the casualties.

Re:Translated for the Lay (5, Funny)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943175)

"Let's start with the end user. Your daughter saw a lot of value," said Ballmer.

Translation: We spent a lot of money packing it with bloat.

Translation: "Our Marketting Department spent 5 years changing the specs for the Engineering Department based on focus groups stuffed with hydrocephalic chimpanzees. We gotta get our money back before our stockholders show up with pitchforks & torches and lynch us."

"Users appreciate the value that we put into Vista," he said. But, as with earlier operating system releases, "there is always a tension between the value that end users see -- and frankly, that software developers see -- and the value that we can deliver to IT."

Translation: No matter how many versions we have, it's still one size fits all. The tension is generated because our developers don't lead normal lives and see things the way ordinary people do, which makes the end product obfuscated and confusing

Translation: "Our chimpanze focus groups are fickle as hell and constantly change their minds from minute to minute. This leads to developement team frustration, so we were forced to sedate them. That didn't work so well, so now we're trying lobotomies..."

"When we initially shipped, fewer device drivers were ready for Vista than I would have liked, but we constantly worked with the device vendors to get new drivers available and implemented through our Windows update service," he said.

Translation: We rushed it to market. If we had waited until it was really ready we would have seen our stock drop. The premature release was purely driven by profit motives rather than care for our customers.

Translation: "Our developers couldn't keep up with our changing specs. Don't blame us, blame the chimpanzes."

Oh really... (3, Informative)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942771)

'Good, I'll let you come in and install it for me.'
Uh, Vista is easier to install than XP.

Re:Oh really... (3, Insightful)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943141)

I don't think the woman was saying that Vista itself was harder to install. Like many others she's complaining that there were many issues after the install like with drivers, stability, etc. Since MS changed many things in Vista this was not unexpected especially for a 1st generation product. She figures that maybe something she did caused it, and Ballmer is trying to put the best face forward. I think he and Gates both know what a fiasco Vista has been and that the installation process is a small role in how unfinished many feel that Vista is. Gates and Co are trying to get everyone to install it so that MS can make money.

first post (!) (1)

techwrench (586424) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942775)

I don't know if that was a good idea...

What if he runs into install problems?

Oops! forgot, this is windows.......

Sooo? (4, Insightful)

renrutal (872592) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942789)

>> Your daughter saw a lot of value.
> She's 13.
Am I the only one missing the point here?

Re:Sooo? (5, Insightful)

njfuzzy (734116) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942837)

It seems pretty simple to me. The mother, who cares about performance and utility, wasn't impressed. The tweenage daughter, who cares about gadgets and superficial appearances liked it.

Re:Sooo? (0)

SIIHP (1128921) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943171)

"The mother, who cares about performance and utility, wasn't impressed."

With all due respect to mom, if she thinks Vista is hard to install, then her opinion about its "performance and utility" is completely worthless.

Re:Sooo? (2, Interesting)

realthing02 (1084767) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943219)

While I'll agree with the idea of your post, we should also bring up the fact that the mother, who "cares about performance and utility" bought an OS for her daughter because of gadgets. If she is going to go and complain to Ballmer, she probably knew a bit about vista anyways, and i don't understand the kind of parent who goes out and drops 150 on software because of some little feature.

I understand that the average user is not as technical as the posters here, but if she was smart enough to know the OS was causing problems, and dedicated enough to show up and quiz Ballmer on this, i just have a hard time believing this isn't some form of stunt or something of the like.

Re:Sooo? (5, Insightful)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943021)

You obviously never been or had a 13 year old. They think all sorts of things have "a lot of value" based upon "peers opinion". In fact, Junior High is filled with various peer groups that base all sorts of things on the perceived value assigned to things by the peer group. As one grows up, many realize that 13 year olds don't really know jack about the world yet.

So, the retort from the mother is basically ... "she's 13 years old, she doesn't know jack, what else would you expect." Her retort nullifies the previous comment as only a mother of a 13 year old could, and it is quite amusing, IMHO.

Love/Hate Relationship? (5, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942791)

So, in short, the 13 yr old had no problem with it, but the mother couldn't understand it, so it's a bad OS? Yeah, that's GREAT logic.

Also, "she's 13" is not a valid retort for why it shouldn't matter that she found value in it. She obviously knew how to use it more than the mother did.

Ballmer was in an impossible situation here. He could make her look the complete fool and catch hell for picking on that woman, or let her 'win' and catch hell for letting a woman beat up his operating system. He chose the right route, for once.

For the record, Vista was the wrong route.

Re:Love/Hate Relationship? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20942825)

A Pro-Microsoft comment? On Slashdot? Hand over your geek badge. The lanyard too.

Re:Love/Hate Relationship? (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942887)

I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that the daughter had no problems with Vista. She saw a friend use Vista and liked one of the features, so she wanted it at home.

Sounds like her mother installed Vista ok, they used it for two days, then reverted back to XP. Who exactly initiated the move back to XP is unclear.

As far as the remark about Ballmer installing Vista SP1, I'd imagine that was the mom's way of washing her hands of the Vista topic.

Re:Love/Hate Relationship? (5, Insightful)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943059)

Also, "she's 13" is not a valid retort for why it shouldn't matter that she found value in it
Actually it is the PERFECT retort, because it shows just how out-of-touch Microsoft is. Teenagers don't care about value, because they have no concept of what value is.

Re:Love/Hate Relationship? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943065)

The reasons you cite don't stop us from laughing at him. I think the term is: 'what goes around comes around.'

Re:Love/Hate Relationship? (5, Insightful)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943093)

Also, "she's 13" is not a valid retort for why it shouldn't matter that she found value in it. She obviously knew how to use it more than the mother did.

Quite wrong. 13 year olds see a lot of value in Zwinkies, expensive ring-tones, and fake plastic jewelry. So when it comes to deciding value, "she's 13" is a perfectly good answer. (Next time you have a grand to spend on a home project, ask your 13 year old to be in charge.)

Secondly, nowhere there does it say that she knew how to "use" it. What does she know how to use? She saw some eye-candy and wanted it for herself.

I agree that Vista is the wrong route, and that Ballmer was in a tight spot. Nevertheless, he took 7 years to create that tight spot, and he just reaped a bit of what he sowed.

Re:Love/Hate Relationship? (3, Insightful)

chrysrobyn (106763) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943157)

So, in short, the 13 yr old had no problem with it, but the mother couldn't understand it, so it's a bad OS? Yeah, that's GREAT logic. Also, "she's 13" is not a valid retort for why it shouldn't matter that she found value in it. She obviously knew how to use it more than the mother did.

I'm sorry, wait, what? The 13 year old daughter liked the widgets. Mom explicitly said that's why the daughter wanted it. Maybe we can assume Mom thought shelling out >$100 would at the minimum be neutral (hopefully improving) every feature she came to love about XP. Instead, the experience degraded. The 13 year old daughter, who has probably never worked a day in her life, nor is she likely to for another 2-3 years, is unable to grasp the value of the money it cost to get the OS upgrade, so is unable to judge the value of the product. Just because she knows how to use the widgets better than Mom doesn't mean she can weigh the value of the money it took to buy the upgrade against the other things that money could have been used for.

I side with Mom. The girl is 13. Her opinion matters, but her opinion is not the only thing that matters.

Or, better yet (3, Interesting)

Rinisari (521266) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942799)

Or, better yet, she can use an operating system that doesn't practically require new hardware for every new release, but operating system of which I speak can take advantage of new hardware when it's available, and that'll be sooner because she won't have to spend $400 on just the operating system.

CHairs and threats (1)

Roadmaster (96317) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942803)

so, I guess mom should count herself lucky she didn't have to dodge chairs or endure Steve threatening to "f***ing kill" her..

I hate to be the one defending Microsoft, but... (4, Insightful)

Perseid (660451) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942831)

...in my experience Vista is easier to transition to than most operating systems I've upgraded. Most hardware still works. Every program I've tried so far has worked. Can you say the same thing for 98 to XP? No. OS 9 to OS X? No. Linux to newer Linux? Well, yes. :)

Take a machine that runs 98 tolerably well and upgrade it to XP. Pain. Take a machine that runs XP tolerably well and upgrade it to Vista. Pain. Nothing is new here. You upgrade your OS and you'll probably need to upgrade your hardware too. And purchasers that doesn't realize this only have themselves to blame. Did I just agree with Steve Ballmer? Damn it, get me a razor blade...

Re:I hate to be the one defending Microsoft, but.. (3, Interesting)

Mattwolf7 (633112) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943039)

I love how every piece of software works with Vista except Microsoft's own programs...

I am a college student and needed to install MS Visual Studio for a project. Our CSE lab is partnered with MS through MSDN. We have access to most MS software. So I went online and noticed that Visual Studios 2003 Pro was on the website. (2005 is not available) Checked out the cd from the lab and went home to install it on Vista. After having trouble getting it to work I went searching for a fix.

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/aa948854.aspx [microsoft.com]

Q: What products are supported?
A: We are supporting Visual Basic 6.0, Visual FoxPro 9.0 and Visual Studio 2005 Service Pack 1 with the Visual Studio 2005 Service Pack 1 Update for Windows Vista.


So Visual Basic 6, created in 1998, is supported but software from 2003 isn't??

Re:I hate to be the one defending Microsoft, but.. (3, Informative)

varmittang (849469) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943203)

Actually, OS 9 to OS X had something called Classic in OS X, so that you could run all your OS 9 programs without a rewrite.

This guy... (1)

Dr. Smoove (1099425) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942861)

Just the other day I saw the one about Red Hat users owing him money, and it really pissed me off. Now it seems like he's advocating this piss-poor development idea that bloat is OK. "Systems are getting faster and faster, you don't need to write non-shitty code" is basically what he's saying. This type of mentality really pisses me off.

Whats the point...? (1)

Brad_sk (919670) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942893)

The same thing can be said to any OS w.r.t a 13 yr old. Even installing/using Ubuntu would be a hassle...The only reason why they find XP is fine is because the 13 yr old has been using it may be for few years. Someone installed it for her when she was 7 or 8 and hence didn't feel any pain.

I would mod the submission as a useless article.

Lady's daughter is retarded (0, Flamebait)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942901)

Can't figure out operating system that's been slightly changed.

More news at eleven.

(If I was using DOS at age 10...)

Re:Lady's daughter is retarded (1)

acroyear (5882) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943127)

as others said, nowhere does the article say the *daughter* found it difficult. Mom was complaining that it was too difficult, not that the daughter saw it that way.

Kid probably found it to be no problem at all...

Oh yeah let's bash MS !! (4, Insightful)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942925)

Vista is NOT harder to use than XP. It's virtually the same, especially from the point of view of a non-power user. UAC might be a huge nuisance, but parents or whoever can just turn it off. I wouldn't give a 13-year-old admin privileges to a machine in the first place; you're just asking for trojans otherwise.

Ballmer was probably thinking "either you or your daugher or both are just stupid" but knew he couldn't say it so he was trying to be passive and just said some BS to try and get the lady off his case.

Why I am a (Mac/Linux/Fill-in-the-Blank) user (5, Insightful)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942933)

Ballmer's response is a nice little nutshell of everything wrong with Microsoft and why I'm a home Mac user (replace Mac with Linux if you must, but the point is the same). Ballmer talks of "value", as if HOME USERS give a shit. Microsoft is in so deep to corporate ass kissing, they forget that there are millions of home users who use computers for things OTHER than work and "value" means something completely different to a home user. If I have to give into Mr. Ballmer's Econo-spin I'd have to tell him that "value" to me means I sit down at my computer and use it with as little fuss and interruption from the OS as possible. In this scenario, every flavor of Windows ever has very little value. My time and convenience have more "value" to me than any corporate bottom-line will ever have. In fact, I'd rather NOT be able to do something than be stuck in the perpetual co-dependent cycle that Microsoft has created.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'm a home Mac user.

Re:Why I am a (Mac/Linux/Fill-in-the-Blank) user (1)

SIIHP (1128921) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943103)

"Ballmer talks of "value", as if HOME USERS give a shit."

I have no idea why you posted this because it makes no sense.

Unless you define "value" your point is meaningless.

Re:Why I am a (Mac/Linux/Fill-in-the-Blank) user (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943237)

OK, I get the point that you hate Microsoft and love Apple but your reasons are totally flawed.

I'd rather NOT be able to do something than be stuck in the perpetual co-dependent cycle that Microsoft has created.
Yes, so instead you're stuck in the even bigger cycle that Apple has created and has even greater control over.

"value" to me means I sit down at my computer and use it with as little fuss and interruption from the OS as possible
Maybe I'm just confused by all of Ballmer's "Econo-spin", but I'd say the definition you gave of value means the same to businesses as well as home users. People want to be able to just sit down and use their computers whether they're a home user or at work. I understand that you're trying your best to rip Microsoft here but the reasons you're giving don't make a whole lot of sense.

you'll Linux lovers there. (0, Flamebait)

jacekm (895699) | more than 6 years ago | (#20942969)

I would like to point out you all from Linux church, that the hero mother considers XP to be excellent and safe product. JAM

Scary (5, Insightful)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943003)

That's it. I've never seen the public react this way to a Windows release before. Not Linux geeks, but the average Windows users.
Yea, yea, every new release faces nostalgia of the previous release blah blah. It's way worse here.
Average people call Vista shit. Businesses run away from it.

The Vista brand is ruined. Now even if they fix Vista, the brand will never recover.

I hope Microsoft learns something from this. First impression lasts forever. Don't release software unfinished.

Re:Scary (3, Interesting)

wodgy7 (850851) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943121)

I agree with you about the Vista brand being damaged in the minds of ordinary people. One anecdote: I'm in law school, and on Tuesday I noticed the girl sitting next to me had brought in a new MacBook Pro. I started chatting with her about it, and she told me the reason she had got it is because she needed a new laptop and didn't want to move to Vista. I've heard similar things (though not in such point-blank language) from other non-technical users. It's surprising to me. The word of mouth problems with Vista aren't just confined to OS bickering among nerds... there seems to be genuine negative buzz about Vista among ordinary, non-technical users. If you've ever run a business, word of mouth is the most powerful way to acquire or lose mindshare... no amount of advertising claiming "the WOW is now" will counter genuine, grassroots word of mouth. Will this have an impact on Microsoft? Probably not. But it's a sign that there are real limits to what users will put up with, even from a vendor with extraordinary market power.

Re:Scary (1)

Techx9 (1170143) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943159)

Don't release software unfinished? Um, ALL software is released unfinished! Why do you think every piece of software, including games, and especially OS's needs to be patched, updated, service packed, hotfixed, etc. I suggest you learn the business model of any software company before making that statement again.

Re:Scary (2, Funny)

MuChild (656741) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943235)

I bought Vista along with my new PC for gaming. It runs like a fascist on LSD. I understand that there must be a learning curve with any new software, but it crashed my computer to a Blue Screen of Death within minutes of booting it up for the first time. Now it likes to freeze up whenever I leave it alone for more than 20 minutes.


It's bloated beyond all reasonability. I don't see why they can't do what works best for them: copy the Mac OS as close as possible without getting sued (exept focus on making it stable) . I try not to hate Microsoft but I'm P.O'd that they would foist this shellac off on us.

Analyst? (2, Interesting)

McMurphy's_Law (1155161) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943009)

I'd Like to know what kind of "analyst" listens to a 13 year old girl on the quality features of Vista? Seems to me the Mother never did a great deal of research/testing of this OS, otherwise she might have known that its a royal pain in the kester.
I'm not defending Vista or Ballmer in anyway but she almost sounds like a plant to make him look like the puppet he is.

Machines are *NOT* getting bigger (1, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943015)

What a load of horse crap! The machines being sold are generally more powerful, but the machines are not getting bigger by themselves. But in no uncertain terms is Microsoft stating that people are expected to buy newer, bigger, more powerful machines... and why? Just to run their OS? Here I was thinking that computing was about the data and the programs that operates on it... Goes to show me how wrong I was... it's actually about the OS!

See what I just did there... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943027)

A bit later she was tossed out of a windows, she has a great vista before she had the experience of her life right before hitting the pavement...

*pat on the shoulder*

why does /. still have a subject line?! (5, Insightful)

blhack (921171) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943037)

Don't you all see! Vista was a wise move by Microsoft. IT has been long been agreed upon that one major contributor to windows' insecurity is its popularity. If Microsoft comes out with an OS that nobody wants, they won't be popular anymore, and suddenly they'll have a secure OS!!!

DUH!

Two days? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943047)

She reverted back to XP after only 2 days because it was too difficult to use? Was the kid trying to get set up BitLocker? Better yet, then she comes to a conference which she probably has no business being at and forces everyone listen to her rant. Brilliant. A definate candidate for Ubuntu or Linspire.

waaaaa (1)

Techx9 (1170143) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943051)

waaaaaa i'm too lazy to learn something new, all computers should be 800x600 touch screens with big giant buttons to press to make it easy for dumb ass 14 year olds and soccer moms to figure out waaaaaa sorry for the rant, people piss me off sometimes :)

"She's 13" (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943067)

I don't get it.

Actually, I don't get just about anything in the article. It doesn't say what the "value" was. It doesn't say what the problems were.

If the "she's 13" comment is intended to explain that she's not a computer-expert (and I think that's the intent, but I'm not sure) then there's all kinds of dumb things going on here. Windows' main problem is security (mainly due to the horrific UI "click here to install malware"), and it simply shouldn't be used by anyone who isn't an expert or doesn't have a deep entrenched legacy that they can't afford to replace.

"She's 13" implies lack of a legacy. "She's 13" also implies lack of expertise. This person shouldn't be using either XP or Vista. That said, Vista may mitigate some of the security problems (especially important, if she's using the computer on the network), but at the cost of legacy compatibility. But overall, it just doesn't make any sense.

Is the 13-year-old some kind of hacker prodigy, where developing on Windows might make her some money or something? The article doesn't really suggest anything along those lines. So how did XP's or Vista's quality (or lack thereof) become a serious issue? It sounds like, "My daughter bought your screwdriver, dammit, and she's been doing an absolutely aweful job of pounding nails." Huh?!

A linux user would have... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943071)

If Ballmer was a linux user, he would have told the lady to RTFM.

Most Secure version of Windows ever? (2, Funny)

andy9701 (112808) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943109)

One of the top requirements from IT customers was for "the most secure release of Windows you can humanly make," said Ballmer. "We have had better security, we have had fewer vulnerabilities, fewer issues with Windows Vista in its first six months than any OS that preceded it.


Doesn't this mean that the next version of Windows will be less secure than Vista? ;)

A new meme ? "The MOM" (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943111)

not yer average mom, its your geeky daughter avenging techie mom, and, top level cios, ceos, whatnots to boot !

watch out, she's gonna get you. she's gonna get you good !

be you may in open source, be you may in microsoft, be you may a long hair or a fanboi !!

she's gonna get you, and she's gonna get you good !!

for here comes, THE MOM !!!!

Shill Money (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943139)

I wonder how much Microsoft spends on internet shills. Because it sure seems like some people are willing to defend anything Microsoft does.

In other comments (1)

Wylfing (144940) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943143)

In other comments, Mr. Ballmer was heard to say he was going to "fucking kill" Mrs. Genovese, and all the chairs in Mr. Ballmer's dressing room were found smashed to pieces.

Value in/of Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#20943191)

There is plenty of value in vista. For only 199.99 for an upgrade, or just 400.00 for the full version imagagine what you get.

1. New Icons!
2. New Internet Explorer (which can be downloaded free)
3. New Sound Recorder (that actually records more than 30 seconds, or so I am told)
4. New Media Player
5. New Wordpad (still useless)
6. New Screen Savers
7. New DRM!
8. New BETA(TM) Drivers
9. New DirectX

Yep, absolutly worth the 200/400 dollar price, gotta have the gadgets.

Last time I checked / took Computer Engineering, the function of an OS was to simply provide a programmer friendly abstraction layer for the hardware.

Now I appreciate a nice shell as much as the next person, but I don't think that's worth 400 bucks on the price of say a 500 dollar or even 1200 dollar machine.

2 words: bloat ware (1)

gemtech (645045) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943197)

I just added more RAM to all 3 of my XP machines, due to updates running amuck with RAM usage. Now they are back to original performance.
My Vista laptop (that my daughter uses) is just too fluffy for me. Probably good for people that like fluffy and a whole lot of barriers for security.
I still can't get on NOAA's web site and see the animated RADAR with that laptop.

Ballmer retorts "if you switch to linux..." (1)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 6 years ago | (#20943217)

And Ballmer says "If you switch to Linux, your 13 year old daughter will have to still pay us."

I'm sure he wasn't getting any jollies off on that lambasting. Ballmer needs to grow up. I think he's met his match with that quick witted mother. What the hell is wrong with Ballmer trying to say she got value from it. What a total idiot. The man is so out of touch. Typical of almost all of Microsoft. If that wasn't the case we wouldn't have Vista to begin with. We'd have a product the consumer could be proud of.

Back to XP. Back to XP. There you go. Back to XP. Screw Microsoft and their Vista even with SP1.
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