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ATI Rage Fury MAXX Review

Hemos posted more than 14 years ago | from the fun-with-mo-graphics dept.

Graphics 166

Johan Jonasson writes "There's an excellent review of the ATI Rage Fury MAXX over at Tom's Hardware. For those unfamiliar with the product it's a monster graphics board with two Rage 128 PRO chips, each with isolated 32MBs of memory per chip which adds up to 64MB on one board. There's another review of the same board at Sharky Extreme. I've got to get me one of these. "

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Single-card SLI, anyone? (1)

uncleFester (29998) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401613)

Okay, not interleaving scanlines.. Frame interleaving?

either way, it simply looks like two-cards-on-one. No real forward progress, for me.

.. course, I'm also waiting for the fscking Guillemot Prophet DDRs (geForce) to hit the shelves locally.. hardware t&l... *sigh*

(pirst fost?)



Any drivers or specs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401614)

Dare I say no?

Sounds great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401615)

But does it have the same quality as the geforce?

TnL (1)

BadERA (107121) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401616)

TnL What more can I say? Oh, maybe: Voodoo5

Thats nice and all.. but... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401617)

ATI just really REALLY blows chunks, IMO. They've got the goofiest named video cards and ads and keep releasing junk with extra features that no one really needs. I think of them as a budget Matrox. Maybe if this card is 'all that' then they might improve their rep a bit.

Linux support? Nope! (2)

Ravenfeather (21614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401618)

From the Sharky review:

As the Rage Fury MAXX is meant for gamers, ATi has written drivers for Windows 98 only. While we'd agree that most gamers don't run NT4, it will be interesting to see the impact Windows 2000 has on the gaming community. Other then that, Linux users will have to look elsewhere and Win 3.x users should definitely think about upgrading.

When will these people learn???? Sounds like a nice card, but I'm certainly not in the market for Windows-only hardware.

Specs? (1)

veldrane (70385) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401619)

How about a release of the tech. specs so we can write our own driver and make it GPL?

-Vel

Why is this review important? (1)

GoofyBoy (44399) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401620)


Why is this news? Lots of video cards have been reviewed before but was never news on slashdot.

Am I missing something here or is this just a slow news day?

I dunno if I want it... (3)

Banpei (113822) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401621)

I already read both reviews a week ago...

As far as I can remember both articles mentioned that for online-gamers the card would have a slight delay because of the dual-cpu design.

It said something about rendering twice as slow as a nVidia GeForce but made up speed by rendering each frame on the idle cpu. So frame one would be rendered by CPU1, frame two by CPU2, frame 3 by CPU1 and so on...

Anyway, what they said was that if you would have a framerate of 50 frames/sec that would give you on a normal nVidia a time difference between an action (movement, shooting and stuff) and rendering of the actual frame about 0.02 seconds. Giving the ATI has dual-CPU it takes about 0.04 seconds to render.

According to Sharkeyextreme you would certainly "feel" the difference.

Anyway, another reason why I personally would prefer nVidia is because of their good native openGL support.

Re:Sounds great (1)

kkelly (69745) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401622)

Dam, its got more memory than my k6 box. Only
have 32 megs and the onboard video takes up 4 megs....sigh

Blah.. On second thought.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401623)

After reading the review and seeing the benchmarks on Toms Hardware page, this board BITES. It's slower than the G400, TNT2, and GeForce256 for the most part. Why did they bother releasing it?

Re:Why is this review important? (1)

Psiren (6145) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401624)

If you listen carefully, you can hear the barrel being scraped... ;)

"Some smegger's filled in this 'Have You Got A Good Memory?' quiz!"

Re:Linux support? Nope! (2)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401625)

We just need a good OpenGL driver ... that's all we ask ;-)

I'm sure that their marketing team is unaware of the open source team. It'll hit us eventually, I should think.

Why buy one? (2)

D3 (31029) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401626)

1) No Linux drivers, win98 only.
2) Great DVD BUT no TV output.
3) Slower frames/s than GeForce and marginally better than TNT2 Ultra for some games.

Seems enough for me to leave it alone for a while.

2 chips for roughly the same performance... (3)

shang (130364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401627)

That's a sure sign of a weak card. When you have to put 2 of your best chips in one card to equal the competition, that just means you have a real shoddy chip. I don't see a big performance increase gained over its competition. I'm sure Matrox can put 2 G400 chips on the same board and kill ATi on performance.

No NT support? I won't buy it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401628)

I run all of my games in NT. I don't buy things without NT support.

Re:Specs? (1)

Myddrin (54596) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401629)

ATI promised to have the specs availible. This was very big news a while ago. While they are not as commited as some companies, they do a little bit. A great bene for those of us running LinuxPPC!

It's simple (2)

I_redwolf (51890) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401630)

Why are you talking about a card that has no linux drivers. The company has made it a point to just support linux enough to barely use the card. The 3d support for the Rage Fury chipset period isn't even finished yet. Why bother? I will never buy another ATI card again. Hell, I would of been rid of the card if SuSe didn't release a free X server for it. Enough ranting

In simple, why support something that you can't use? Yeah "you gotta get one of those" but what are you gonna do with it? The holidays are over so hanging it on your tree as an ornament would be rather redundant.

Re:Specs? (1)

Myddrin (54596) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401631)

Damn I didn't preview. The press release is HERE! [atitech.com]

Or try this http://www.atitech.com/ca_us/corporate/press/1999/ 4241.html

I have a rage of fury in my pants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401632)

And furthermore, I'm quite upset. I've spent my life trying to create a race of fast breeding midgets to sell as slaves on the black market. But the Chinese beat me to it.

I've lost all respect for tom.. (3)

mistalinux (78981) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401633)

I have no respect for Tom anymore. Look at this statement:

I would love to tell you the real story here but I don't think these hardware companies would appreciate it

Tom lost all my respect. And if you feel you need to read the surrounding text, look at the URL below. Wow. http://www6.tomshardwar e.com/graphic/99q4/991230/fury-14.html [tomshardware.com]

I've gotta get one of these... (1)

Zule_Boy (45951) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401634)

Is it just me, or is it *EVERYTIME* a new graphics board comes out everyone is like "I've gotta get one of these." Exactly how much video processing power do most people need. I have an ATI All-in-Wonder Pro (AGP) with a VooDoo II Add-on. Quake runs fine. :)
--Evan

Re:Specs? (1)

Ravenfeather (21614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401635)

That's all we need. Thanks for the info...

Re:Linux support? Nope! (2)

clasher (2351) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401636)

ATI does support Linux and Open Source. Here [ati.com] is a press release concerning it. Also their web site assures developers that technical data is availiable upon request. It is only a matter of time before a linux driver can be written.

Wait a few months... (1)

jtroutman (121577) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401637)

3dfx is releasing the Voodoo5 6000 later this spring. It's a 128-bit/128Mb card with video out, unlike the ATI card. It won't ship with drivers for anything but Microsoft, but have hope.

Bad experiences with ATI cards (1)

Hobart (32767) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401638)

I've lost large amounts of work due to Rage DLL (ATI video card driver) crashes (Blue screens) under NT4, both on a Dell Inspiron 7000 series laptop, and a Dell Dimension XPST500 desktop.
I would not recommend anyone purchase an ATI card.
Other posters have already commented that ATI has no plans to release the card's specifications to enable a Free driver...
...and I have no reason to doubt that this new card will be as bug ridden as its predecessors.

drivers (1)

aphr0 (7423) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401639)

Many people are complaining about the lack of Linux support. Don't feel too bad, linux types. The drivers for the current Rage Fury for windows are crap. Pitiful quality. I'd LOVE to get rid of my Rage Fury due purely to the unacceptable quality of the drivers, but I'm a bit short on cash at the moment.

Basically, you have 2 driver options for the Rage Fury: 1) release drivers, which are slower than old people fucking, or 2) beta drivers, which are faster, but ridiculously buggy. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Don't bother emailing ATI for Linux drivers. They aren't worth having. Except for you poor souls who bought Rage Furies. (my condolences to you all)

Raw power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401640)

Theres a lot of power in that there card.... maybe in 2 or 3 years Linux will support it and have semi-decent 3D drivers!

Commercial! (1)

borzwazie (101172) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401641)

Ok, Andover, this is tech news, geek news, and weird political/anti-privacy stuff news here, only.

How much were you paid to post this crap up here? If I wanted to read about HARDWARE REVIEWS, I would go to a HARDWARE REVIEW (read: commercial) site.

Kindly do not defile Slashdot with this tripe.

Another biased review by an idiot (5)

Malc (1751) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401642)

"It offers instant gratification for the games that are out now. When T&L-enabled titles start hitting the shelves later in 2000, ATi's next generation chip should be ready for them." - Sharky Extreme

This review seems almost as biased as the last one based on the board before it was released. Do they think that nVidia will be sitting around and not have something better by the time ATi release their next generation chip? If I'm going to spend upwards of $250 on a graphics card, I don't want to be shelling out for another card later in the year to get the new features. Stupid reviewer! The ATi card is no cheaper than the geForce DDR, but with lower performance and fewer features. It's obvious which card to get when chosing between the two. Besides, who cares about the hi-res results: no serious gamer would play at 1280x1024, the framerate is half what I consider the miniumum for games like Quake 3 - where the difference between 50 and 60 fps is noticeable, let alone playing at 30 fps! - and with Quake 2 I would suggest that there is no need to go to resolutions above 640x480 or 800x600 as there is no real gain.

The cheapest Creative Labs 3D Blaster Annihilator Pro (geForce DDR) is available for $233, according to computers.com (can't find the MAXX yet):
Creative Labs 3D Blaster Annihilator Pro, sorted by price [cnet.com]

Re:Thats nice and all.. but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401643)

You only say that because of one reason: the ATI Rage chips. I've got one of these cards, the ATI All In Wonder Pro and the 3D on it is definitely the bottom of the barrel... but since then, their chips have been good. And that "junk withe xtra features that no one really needs" is the card I have, it has every bell and whistle imaginable... and I use it every freakin day... video capture, video out, TV tuning, the VCR features, etc. And how do you define goofy names? geForce isn't a stupid name?

Re:It's simple (1)

Malc (1751) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401644)

Yes, it's very simple. Not everybody on /. uses Linux. Stop whining.

The problems with this card (2)

rogerbo (74443) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401645)

There's a few problems with this card.

Some people have raised the concern that there will be an additional latency in first person shooters that some gamers would notice, since it's rendering the next frame ahead before it displays when you haven't hit the key to decide your actions in that frame yet. Maybe not noticable to some people but for the hard core gamer....

The Voodoo2 SLI and multichip Voodoo4/5 cards don't have this problem because they render portions of the same frame.

It's also very inefficient to have 32 MB per chip rather than a shared 64MB pool.

You're better off going for a Voodoo5 if you want the absolute highest fill rate or a GeForce DDR if you want maximum geometry throughput.



Lets be fair here (2)

Trinition (114758) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401646)

Seems to be a lot of ATI slamming going on. I for one know that ATI has NEVER made the fastest card in the market (although their marketing department seems to think so).

But, I do have an ATI AIW 128 (not Pro). Boy is it nice to watch TV, or record a TV magazine for later. Its nice to be able to broadcast video in netmeeting or CUSeeMe. Its nice to be able to do all of this on one board. I have OpenGL driver support (even in NT!). I have DirectX support. It compensates DVD playback. Its a very well rounded board. And what's more, I get very decent game play at 32bit (whereas most traditional 3D boards cringe at 32-bit color and stick to 16-bit).

Now, there were two ways to proceed in enhancing game performance:

  1. Put more of the rendering onto the chip (i.e. T&L)
  2. Use more chips

GeForce did one and ATI did the other. The reviews I've seen place them very close. No which one of these guys will figure out how to use TWO T&L chips first?

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that ATI is most prominently a marketing company selling to an OEM market. And they're doing a DAMN GOOD job at that. Their boards are not the best, but they're certainly far from the worst.

!flame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401647)

anybody who follows 'gaming' hardware knows that the rage 128 chipset was a failure in almost every aspect. every rage 128-based video card was a piece of garbage, imacs and g3 that shipped with rage chips blew major chunks, and you knew carmack tried to squeeze blood from a rock when he tried the best he could to get quake running with decent performance on imacs and g3s.

in short, the rage chipset is a poor performer. slapping two of these guys on a single card may be a good way for ati to get rid of these chips, but it does not make a good video card.

comments welcome. game junkie at the wheel.

Hello? its Linux! You don't want their drivers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401648)

Their drivers would be closed source! A pax upon them! The Open Source community has done such a bust-ass job putting out drivers for advanced 3D accelerator so far I'm sure its only... what's that? Oh, someone just told me about the current state of 3D accelerators under Linux... sorry boys, I guess you'll just have to find something else to accelerate Quake3... being as its the only remotely recent game Linux supports (if in a completely crippled way)

Re:2 chips for roughly the same performance... (1)

deefer (82630) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401649)

So... Any recommendations for a new AGP graphics card for my dual boot (RH Linux & NT4.0) machine? Damned Unreal just doesn't run _quick_ enough!!!

whats wrong with these companies?? (2)

jormurgandr (128408) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401650)

Let me get this straight; The card ONLY works in win98, doesn't have native OpenGL support, has a SLOW framerate, and it's ungodly expensive... Boy, sounds like a real winner to me. Why don't we all just go buy some old Cirrus chips, put 50 of them on a board, and sell it. Oh yeah..
=======
There was never a genius without a tincture of madness.

Why invest in ATI instead of nVidia? (5)

Dwindlehop (62388) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401651)

Sure, you can buy a MAXX product for $200~250 and have yourself a kick-ass video card. Or, you could shell out $200~300 for a GeForce-based card and get a kick-ass video card that might just have a longer lifetime in it.

S3's and nVidia's new chipsets support hardware transformation and lighting--done right on the video card, instead of the CPU (which would be software). 3dfx's and ATI's new products don't. Now, it depends on game developer's support for this new technology, but chances are good that many games in the coming couple years will count on offloading these calculations to the video card in hardware T&L enabled cards. If that happens, then owners of these cards will experience serious performance boosts or be able to run games their non-T&L-card-owning bethren can't.

Don't be fooled by the 64 Megs of RAM on the MAXX, either. It doesn't increase the total textures the card can handle, because each chip has to keep track of (almost) all the textures simultaneously. The RAM on this video card is not a particular selling point compared to other 32M cards.

One point ATI might be able to score on is price. The MAXX is expected to retail for less than GeForce products, and may offer a better deal. Only time and the market will tell.

Of course, MAXX products will really succeed in the OEM market, where ATI's strength is. And when (if) this technology gets ported to the Mac, it'll be a major boon to Mac gaming. Given ATI's current stranglehold on the Mac 3D video card market, I expect this card will find it's way there soon enough.

Is SUCKS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401652)

Face it. The thing blow like a cheap 42nd street hooker. (no offense to anyone)

My G400 Has only one processor... guess what?
It Can do dual display, TV Out, And support for flat-panels.

And Even More: It's FASTER, and It can be overclocked. ATI Has always been a dissapointment.

And why is it Furry?

Re:Why is this review important? (1)

Myddrin (54596) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401653)

There has been a lot of hype about this card for the last N months.

Mostly in the Macintosh world (remember some of us use supplemental operating systems) where this is the supposed solution to Apple being cheap and only given "power users" 4 slots (most need 6+ for some reason unknown to people such as me...then again I don't do graphics!)

This was supposed to be the card that put ATI back on the map... apparently not! :( [Personally I've only had good experiences my ATI card, but then again I've only used the one(1).]

Re:Wait a few months... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401654)

Yes and nvidia is releasing geforce1024 in the next year which gives 1000fps in q5 with K8/3GHz Lets compare current video cards. Besides how much v5/6000 will cost?

Why??? (1)

BoneFlower (107640) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401655)

Whats the point? Dual processor graphics cards?? I don't get it. I get 55 frames per second in Forsaken. Not exactly impressive but it is easily enough for decent gameplay. My hardware: K6-2 450, 32MB RAM, Diamond Monster Fusion AGP. Not very heany duty hardware. Yet it will play anything acceptably well, and when I get a new 64MB module will be more than enough. But maybe my memories of the time when a gamer debated whether to go for the excellent resolution of Hercules mono or the 4 colors of CGA, and when you wondered who would really need one disk to hold 1.44MB, affects my views of minimum vs. excessive computer power.

video newbie (1)

FascDot Killed My Pr (24021) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401656)

Is there a "beginner's guide to video cards" anywhere on the 'net? I seriously don't understand the profusion of card types out there and I need to get something I can import/export video with.
---

Re:Why buy one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401657)

well, number 1 is irrelevant because I'd want the card to play games, not to sit on for 10 years waiting for someone other than id (who is a platform whore) to write a game for Linux. If you think the day is right around the corner when games will be written for Linux (or if you're deluded enough to think they'll EVER be Open Source... well then you should take some Prozac... lots of it in fact), you are wrong. The people who bought iMacs thought the same thing would happen with people programming games for Macs... its just not happening and its not going to. So if you're using Linux, stick to a 4MB Trident card, it can actually handle that card.

Re:OPEN SOURCE REVIEW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401658)

Sorry, dude, no love from the moderators, I would've given you mad points. I liked it though, it's much better than the crap those first post morons put up. Maybe you should try for an open source first post, but I won't tell you how to do your thing.

Moderators - what the hell? (1)

Ravenfeather (21614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401659)

Why on earth is that post - a reasonable summary of the two articles - moderated DOWN as a troll?

Hoping to meet you in a dark metamoderation alleyway....

Re:It's simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401660)

In simple, why support something that you can't use?

Its the Linux support you need to drop, not the support for basically every single modern video card on the market (because Linux can't use any of them to the extent and capacity that Windows can).

And "Why are you talking about a card that has no linux drivers." ... I guess that was a question and not a statement, deceptive puntuation aside, but the bottom line is that if Slashdot catered exclusively to the Linux community they wouldn't get much audience... I don't use Linux and I love Slashdot.. blasting hairbrained Pavlovian Open Source advocacy posts are fun, and the rest of the news is flat out informative.

Although I do wish Slashdot were an application and not a web page.

Re:Sounds great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401661)

RTFA

Re:I've lost all respect for tom.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401662)

Yeah, Tom is a real dick for not walking himself into libel and defamation lawsuits. So you can feel better about yourself, mistalinux, I think I'll bring a few suits against you because that would obviously make you really happy...

Re:Commercial! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401663)

Wow, you really know how to shoot yourself in the foot... look at this here:
"Ok, Andover, this is tech news, geek news, and weird political/anti-privacy stuff news here, only. "

Now ask yourself.... tech news.... what is technology? Yeah, exactly.

Re:Commercial! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401664)

Hi!@@$#
CAN I BE YOUR FREIND@!@!$!@$
PWEESEEEEE!$@!@$!$@!@$!@%!%@@%!@!%%!

I'LL LET YOU PLAY WITH ME@!$!@$!@$

Thank you. (1)

D3 (31029) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401665)

I agree the moderation seems to have been done by one of the AC idiots on this one. The post was certainly not a troll. Redundant I could understand, but not troll.

I really would like to know why the person submitting was so excited by this card.

Gah. (3)

BJH (11355) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401666)


Is it just me, or has Sharky been infected with the "suck up to our advertisers" disease that hit Tom a while back? Get this quote from here [sharkyextreme.com] :

...the MAXX is a direct contender once again with the SDR card, however it almost overtakes the DDR board as well in high resolutions. Once again, the raw power of the two Rage 128 Pro chips stands up well to the extra high bandwidth and T&L of the DDR GeForce.

Well, excuse me, since ATI has thrown two chips at the problem compared with one for the NVidia card, I would expect the words "raw power" to be applied to the GeForce. On top of that, he says that the ATI card "almost overtakes" the GeForce DDR; the framerate differences between the ATI and the SDR card on the three tests on this page were 0.4 FPS, 0.1 FPS and 0.4 FPS again, whereas the gaps between the ATI and the DDR card were, respectively, 5 FPS, 5.4 FPS and 5.1 FPS. Since we're talking about a nearly 20% difference in F/R between the ATI and the DDR cards, his comments strike me as being just this side of dishonest. He then goes on to say that the DDR GeForce card has better bandwidth and T&L, as if NVidia were cheating or something.

If you look at the tests, many of them show the ATI card getting its ass well and truly kicked by the GeForce cards, sometimes by margins of 100% or more, yet Sharky skims by these figures as if they were of little importance, even though he's the one who did the tests. Faugh. Show us your list of advertisers, Sharky.

Re:Is SUCKS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401667)

Face it. The thing blow like a cheap 42nd street hooker. (no offense to anyone)


I'm sure that all of the cheap 42nd street hookers reading /. took no offense.

My advice,... (2)

Jerom (96338) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401668)

for that price,
lay low for a couple of months,
and buy yourself a Playstation 2

J.

Re: Because Hemos makes bad choices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401669)


(s)/he is constantly choosing Windows-only stories
that are irrelevant to Windows users.

Is there a way to filter out all Hemos stories?
He is WAY worse than Katz.

Re: Because Hemos makes bad choices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401670)


(oops minor mistake in last pizost)

(s)/he is constantly choosing Windows-only stories
that are irrelevant to Linux users.

Is there a way to filter out all Hemos stories?
He is WAY worse than Katz.

Re:I've lost all respect for tom.. (1)

mistalinux (78981) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401671)

Yeah, Tom is a real dick for not walking himself into libel and defamation lawsuits. So you can feel better about yourself, mistalinux, I think I'll bring a few suits against you because that would obviously make you really happy...

There is a difference between being libelous and reporting the truth. However, isn't it already too late, since he is posting benchmarks in which only one company or product will appear the victor? Or perhaps by saying "It was the program that stated your video card sucked, not me" is his way of avoiding lawsuits.

Either way, if he knows something we don't, he should be obligated to let us, the consumer know, as it is the goal of his site. But, it is HIS site, and he is free to do what he wants with it.

Re:It's simple (1)

I_redwolf (51890) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401672)

Again its become obvious to me that instead of being able to post to "Linux" users only I have to cater to "others". Not that others matter to me anyway. Shall we proceed with a background of Slashdot and who Slashdot tries to cater to? This is one of the problems I have with reading Slashdot. It was founded in the Linux community yet when someone posts about a problem they see with hardware/software with its own respects to Linux they are blasted with replies as such.

I don't care if you use Linux or not. In fact I don't care what you use as it is unimportant to me. However if Slashdot is to cater to the Linux community you shouldn't see a problem with such posts. I wasn't aware that this was a universal end all website. Maybe I should start reading elsewhere for linux related material.

It seems that as more *nix/linux/bsd people post about their experiences and how a company and or person affects our community we offend the "other".

With that I plan to make that the last time I read Slashdot. It has become something I don't wish to be a part of any longer and will explore other options; if any. Sad.

LINUX 3D POWERHOUSE, WHERE IS IRIX NOW??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401673)

with the emergence of these new incredible graphics sets, Linux is taking the 3D world by storm. Nothing SGI produces or has produced can stand up to the amazing power and display capabilities these cards offer.

we work on an onyx2 IR2 at work, its one of the most pathetic graphics machines ever made. my TNT2 smokes it nightly (i get over 40 fps more on quake2).

the fact is, hollywood, pixar etc will be using only Linux in all future endeavors. irix/mips is just behind the times and incapable of fostering cutting edge 3D modeling and animation. this is where linux 3d excels. Plus its Open Source.

Theater Chip or Not? (2)

embo (133713) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401674)

From Tom's Hardware:
The Rage Fury MAXX also sports the ATI Rage Theatre chip that enhances DVD playback and offers impressive video encoding.
From Sharky Extreme:
Since the gamer is ATi's projected customer, no TV-out support was considered necessary. This means the Rage Theatre chip present on the Rage Fury Pro and All-In-Wonder 128 Pro cards is absent on the otherwise power-packed MAXX.
So who's right?

Re:Thats nice and all.. but... (1)

j_d (26865) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401675)

ATI just really REALLY blows chunks, IMO. They've got the goofiest named video cards and ads and keep releasing junk with extra features that no one really needs. I think of them as a budget Matrox. Maybe if this card is 'all that' then they might improve their rep a bit.
ATI Rage Maxx Wifebeater ATI Rage Maxx Road Warrior ATI Seething Anger Pro ATI Super Street Rage Alpha Hyper EX, Movie Edition. Etc. I had an ATI all-in-wonder pro AGP 32mb for a few days, and the 3d on it was OK, but the freakin' TV tuner hung my box whenever I used it. Supposedly a bad card, but the retailer didn't have a replacement, so I got a diamond *mumble* II. It's just to tide me over, though :) As for the card, it's OK, but per video chip/GPU, the geforce is the winner. The ATI board just managed to keep up with the low end Geforce with two high end ATI procs on it. It's still not as ludicrous as the new Voodoo cards -- Those things have external power supplies! Kicking the power strip can now bork over your video card in a Special Way. Whoever came up with that idea should be shot.

Any drivers ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401676)

Any hardware is crappy hardware if you don't have any good drivers for it. What's the word for linux drivers on that card ?

Mad ATI Product Names (4)

reality-bytes (119275) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401677)

ATI seems to have a very definite anger in its product names.

*Rage* 128 *Fury* - whoa!
*Rage Pro* (how to be professionally mad?)
Is the next board going to be a buget version?: *Rage 128 Mildly-Upset*

And of course dont forget their next board:
*RAGE 256: HOMICIDAL MANIAC*

Re:It's simple (1)

I_redwolf (51890) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401678)

Read above to previous poster and my reply. As said; I don't care what you use as the post shouldn't relate to you if you don't use Linux.

What was the point in replying? Also I wasn't aware that speaking of previous experiences and what has happened to me as a Linux user was something of an illegal post.

Slashdot has now becomea site for news. Technical related news and less of a site that deals with Linux at all. Patents/Laws/Tech News/Rants disgusied as news. It's pathetic.

No, that's NOT what we need. (1)

InThane (2300) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401679)

As long as drivers are availible for Windows first, then other products later, the "lag" will lead to a general public perception that Linux is not as "well-supported" as Windows is - and they're right.

What we need is a public commitment by major companies to have Linux-ready drivers at the get-go. Preferrably open-source, but whatever tickles their whiskers... If they can't handle open-sourcing their drivers, then they can release binary only, and release specs on request for the hardware.

Re:TnL (1)

cgcra (129070) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401680)

While the Voodoo 5 sounds like a great card, I think its unfair to compare a card to be released in 3-5 months to one that is out now (either the ATI or the geforce cards. What 3DFX has out now is what matters. The graphics market is changing month to month.

Hardware reviews linked on /. (1)

Hexagon- (132737) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401681)

As others have said, hardware reviews are really not something I go to Slashdot for, enough game/hardware sites out there to keep me informed of those. It's not even a revolutionary card either.

Re:I have a rage of fury in my pants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401682)

BWAHAHAHAAH! You have topped Grits Boy!!!!

:-)

Re:It's simple (1)

Malc (1751) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401683)

"I wasn't aware that this was a universal end all website"

Obviously you're not very observant. What have Jon Katz's rantings (stories from the hellmouth) or the perpetual stories on nanotechnology or the The Who have to do with Linux? If you look at the /. home page right under the logo, you will see that it is "News for Nerds", not "News for Linux People".

"However if Slashdot is to cater to the Linux community you shouldn't see a problem with such posts. "

I have a problem with the original post. It was whining and the opening question/statement was unnecessary.

"With that I plan to make that the last time I read Slashdot. It has become something I don't wish to be a part of any longer and will explore other options; if any."

Fine. Cut off your nose despite your face. You won't become a martyr.

Re:Linux support? Nope! (1)

the_tsi (19767) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401684)

Oh, come on. ATI has been the most difficult company to work with since the beginning. Why would they change now? :)

-Chris
(proud owner of a Mach32 that was fried by X)

Re:LINUX 3D POWERHOUSE, WHERE IS IRIX NOW??? (1)

Agent Drek (18979) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401685)

when was the last time you tried an OCTANE with 4M of tram and two R12000 CPU's ? I've yet to meet a pc that can do floating point like that or real time 3D. There is more to life than playing quake...it will be some time before I can recommend linux as a production animation workstation. SGI caters not to the gaming market last I checked.

Let's be fair (2)

gnarphlager (62988) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401686)

The PSX2 is set for a Christmas 2000 release in the US, Spring in Japan. I could wait "a couple months", but what good is a game if I can't read what it says? And even so, a PSX2 is not going to make Drakan or any of the other pc games I play run any quicker, until the software is available for it.

But I agree. The PSX2 is going to kick severely large ammounts of ass. And I'd rather shell out for a Geforce now anyway

Re:Why is this review important? (1)

um... Lucas (13147) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401687)

#1 - 2nd Video card (for two monitors)
#2 - Video Capture Card
#3 - Better Sound Card
#4 - SCSI card

With 10/100 ethernet onboard, the need for slot 5 has been alleviated. There used to be a day when people would plop two Apple Quickdraw 3D cards into a 9500, but video cards have eliminated that need. But some people still like a 3rd monitor (one for editing, one for previewing, and one for other apps... Or else, one for sound tracks, one for laying out, and one for video...

And yet others seem to like 2 SCSI cards.... With the possibility of two or three live video sources, just now with that 160 MB/Sec variant of SCSI has it been possible to shove all that data down on SCSI channel.

And there's more possibilities, too... but i don't want to ramble for too long about this

Re:No, that's NOT what we need. (2)

Wah (30840) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401688)

patience young Jedi, the world at large just realized Linux existed last year. Buy your Linux copy of Q3 and wait a little while longer. BTW, good 3d drivers won't do much for Linux without LOTS of good 3d games.

Re:It's simple (1)

Ravenfeather (21614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401689)

but the bottom line is that if Slashdot catered exclusively to the Linux community they wouldn't get much audience...

You know? If I was going to post something this blatantly stupid, I'd post as an AC too! Do you not have any idea of this history of /.? Or did you just follow a link from Wired last week?

But more to the point, both in reply to your post and that of the others flaming those who are concerned with lack of linux drivers, I've got a harsh reality for you - not every post on /. is going to be relevent to you. I don't go through flaming the hell out of everyone who posts something about a Palm Pilot, even though (!!!) I don't own one...

Off topic . . . (1)

gnarphlager (62988) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401690)

if you're bored and you don't read at -1, you HAVE to read the comment this is in reference to. It's pretty funny, if you've ever found a troll funny (I personally do sometimes).


my lame ass attempt at a public service announcement ;-) And of course this is only good until the moderators wipe this away too . . . at least some funny points to the original, k? :-)

Re:Thats nice and all.. but... (1)

technos (73414) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401691)

Heck, I have a ATI RAGE Pro that consistantly gets beat by a single Voodoo2 when it comes to QII framerate. My old G200 even comes really close to outperforming it!. I'm skipping the MAXX in favor of a newer Matrox dualhead; Respectable 3d performance AND it frees a PCI slot!

slashdot != For Linux Users Only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401692)

"Why are you talking about a card that has no linux drivers"

*sigh* Here's a clue for you, oh clueless one. slashdot != Linux-only.

Re:LINUX 3D POWERHOUSE, WHERE IS IRIX NOW??? (1)

KaosDG (85348) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401693)

Momo.

I have an Indigo 2, 250Mhz Extreme. 128MB RAM.

That Sunuvabiatch kicks the living piss out of my DUAL PIIx400 in doing Rendering / Graphics work.
(Admittedly, it's a little sluggish in a regular state, but that's not what i use it for).

At work I use an O2 - 256mb RAM, (not sure the clock speed). (I called it PapaSmurf on the LAN, cuz it's blue)
This sucker is quite the powerhouse. Rendered a 2 minute 3D animation at 1600x1600x32bit in my lifetime. (I went to lunch and it was done. not sure how long).

Irix May not be as robust as other Unices, nor as fancy looking as linux, but it does what it does.
(And I like 4dwm, if you must know... it don't look like windows)

No go back to your cave, AC

Re:I've lost all respect for tom.. (2)

Wah (30840) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401694)

Either way, if he knows something we don't, he should be obligated to let us, the consumer know, as it is the goal of his site.

not in the least. He isn't "obligated" to tell you $hit. However, if he knows info but can't share it (fear of lawsuits, NDAs, etc) then he shouldn't even bring it up, otherwise small minded people get pissed off because their "right" to know is being violated.

From what it sounds like, Tom has pissed off more than a few folks with biased reporting. Let that be a lesson to any would-be hardware pundits in the crowd (from both directions).

Re:Sounds great (2)

Malc (1751) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401695)

It's not that exciting! The graphics card only really uses 32Mb (two lots of 32Mb with the textures, etc., duplicated in both.) It sounds like your computer uses its memory more efficiently! ;)

I hate when that happens! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401696)


My ground-burrowing spider-moles were obsoleted just last year by a Lithuanian smackdown syndicate. It ruined my day.




Re:TnL (1)

BadERA (107121) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401697)

in one aspect, you're entirely correct -- it would be completely unfair to compare the two. however, I was not stating a comparison; rather, I was putting forth the fact that, as the ATI card lacks TnL support, there's no reason to buy one. Instead, wait the 3-5 months.

Interesting that you mention John in your post... (2)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401698)

Considering that between him and Gareth Hughes, there's pretty much an alpha driver for the Rage PRO available for the brave at heart to play Q3 and other OpenGL games on. He doesn't like the chip much (seems it's still missing some things- but you apparently can get by with it) but they've gotten the framerates close to what a G200 does right now. We're going to clean it up and use that driver as a reference Utah-GLX driver because it's the cleanest one to date. Shortly, you can expect a RAGE 128 driver to pop up (Beings that they've given a hell of a lot more info for it to us...).

It's not so much the chips themselves but the drivers that make the chipsets worse than they actually are. Yes, the ATI offerings are nowhere near as good as the Matrox, NVidia, etc. offerings- but they're everywhere, cheap, and are serviceable. As for this card, we'll have support for the basic configuration shortly- all we need for the full support is the info to interlace them from ATI.

Re:video newbie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401699)

I sugest you take a look at Toms Hardware Graphics section : http://www.tomshardware.com/guides/graphic.html and http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/99q2/990426/in dex.html and http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/99q3/990906/in dex.html and

Bewulf CLuster?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401700)

Man, I'd love to see a Beowulf cluster of these things. But, the most important question, does it run Linux??

Re:2 chips for r....--SMP? (1)

mystryda (119003) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401701)

well, if you can use smp on motherboards, why not with the processors on vid cards?

then again, to make real use of a good machine, you need a real operating system, and this card can only run with win98?

it's a start, but it definately needs work.

Re:I've lost all respect for tom.. (1)

Tardigrade (17769) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401702)

The message said he "should be obligated" not that he is. The following sentence also states that he can do whatever he wants with his site, thus making your first unnecessary.

Because of better Open Source support... (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401703)

NVidia's not given out anything (honestly now, an obfuscated source of a driver layer is nothing compared to the technical specs and register level information of the chip) compared to Matrox, 3DfX, or ATI. If you don't want to give money to ATI, spend it on Matrox or 3DfX at this point. The GeForce isn't supported under 3D- the others are right now.

ATI once, never again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401704)

My experiences with ATI cards (except for a stone old Mach32 which works fine since a few years) were all not quite pleasant. Compatibility issues (mostly Gl-wise), bad performance compared to other products and now I should buy a double whopper with only Windows as supported OS... no thanks! I'll stay with nVidia - this GeForce is running soo nice, fast and smooth in my new Athlon PC.

Re:I've gotta get one of these... (2)

Kintanon (65528) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401705)

Quake runs fine.

'Fine' is insufficient. If I can't see every individual rendered blood droplet when I blow your head through the back of the screen from all the way across the level without any slow down with ALL of the eye candy turned on then it isn't good enough!
>:)

Kintanon

Great Review (1)

jallen02 (124384) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401706)

Speakng in terms of the review this one was better than most. I think that is the first review I have read in a long while that pretty much does a comprehensive review of other video cards. Mentioning key things you will want to know when it comes time to buy one. The graphs that showed all of the other video boards were awesome. It is great they showed cards llike the G400 and the TNTUltra. 'these'. Are the real benchmarks. How fast it can run quake. not how well a company can rig a program or driver to smoke a 3D Benchmark program. Well.. If you are interested in video cards go read it its good stuff.

Another review (1)

pnevares (96029) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401707)

I like the Anandtech review [anandtech.com] as well.

Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".

ATI has a few problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401708)

ATI's All in Wonder has probably got to be the best all around card you can buy. However ATI hasn't clued into the fact that a lot people don't like windows and won't buy their cards without drivers. I recently bought a TNT2 for a new system for this very reason.

Re:I've lost all respect for tom.. (1)

pnevares (96029) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401709)

I can't seem the find the phrase you quoted anyhere in the review - also, the page you linked doesn't exist within that review (fury-14.html).

Where was this?

Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".

Not Much Better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401710)

This thing isnt much better than my current Voodoo 3 card. 500 megapixels fill-rate? hrmph...3DFX is coming out with Voodoo 5 this summer....1,333 megapixel fill-rate. Muhahahahaha

Re:No, that's NOT what we need. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1401711)

Have you seen ATI's windows drivers? You will be much happier waiting-) I thought ATI farmed out the writing of Linux drivers to a Linux company early this year.

Re:Another biased review by an idiot (2)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 14 years ago | (#1401712)

Besides, who cares about the hi-res results

There goes all your credibility. Hi-res results are what actually demonstrate raw hardware speeds. Low-res scores reveal little about the actual speed of the card, because few chips are fill rate bound at low resolutions.

Even though high-resolution game scores are a much more effective way to measure a chip's fill rate, they aren't the be-all-and-end-all of the chip's capability. I'd like to see how this ATI handles a 500,000 poly scene typical in the CAD world...


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