×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Who Says 2D Gaming is Dead?

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the it's-alive-i-tell-you-alive dept.

PlayStation (Games) 164

Retro Gaming with Racketboy has up a feature looking at the best modern 2D games out there, all on the PlayStation 2. He highlights the best of every genre, from the modern classic RPG/beat-em-up Odin Sphere to the timeless beauty that is the Metal Slug series. "Disgaea: Hour of Darkness & Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories: Disgaea greatly resembles other strategy RPGs. Its isometric perspective, 3D battlefields, and nice-looking 2D characters are clearly reminiscent of most other games of this type, and on first impression, so is the game's turn-based combat system. However, you'll soon realize that this game actually plays very differently. The gameplay itself is, in a word, weird."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

164 comments

Me. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21017163)

Next question?

Re:Me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21017827)

Wow, somebody's lacking a sense of humor today. Ever heard of a "joke", oh mighty moderator? :p

Re:Me. (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020121)

1. You're logged in AC... people don't usually respond to or mod AC posts. 2. Some people may have taken offense (personally, that was my first incination too, so I think they're stupid to have) 3. unfortunately, your response completely nullifies all "funny" in your first post, which I actually did innitially chuckle at. Thanks

SF4 - 2D (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21017179)

Street Fighter 4 is going to be 2D.

Re:SF4 - 2D (1)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017621)

Right--and don't forget about all the other great 2D fighters being released every year!!

Just this month, Arcana Heart [youtube.com] was released for Japanese PS2s, and last month Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core [youtube.com] was released domestically. King of Fighters XI was just released stateside and Neo Geo Battle Coliseum is to be released later this month.

It's kind of a shame that this deep, rewarding genre has been pushed aside here in the US. I think it's a due to a combination of factors, namely: how graphics-oriented gamers are, the fact that arcades are pretty much dead in this country, and that people don't want to have to spend hours and hours to get good at a game.

Re:SF4 - 2D (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017973)

I think it's a due to a combination of factors, namely: how graphics-oriented gamers are, the fact that arcades are pretty much dead in this country
One of the attractions of arcades was that the games hardware was far more technologically advanced than home games consoles. If arcades were still popular in the US and Europe today, gamers would probably want cutting-edge graphics which in practice would be 3D anyway.

Re:SF4 - 2D (1)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018053)

Maybe, but it doesn't seem to be an issue in Japan. Arcades foster competition and community, things that fighting games--especially technically demanding ones--need to be playable and fun.

Re:SF4 - 2D (1)

Bobartig (61456) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019711)

as a gaming genre, the fighter seems to have benefitted very little from advances in 3d. Most mechanics are still based on a series of 1D vectors, rather than exhibiting any true 3 dimensionality. Im curious to see how the capcom team updates their perenial favorite in an industry that uses 3d graphics as some sort of crutch. the sf franchise still sees a lot of play at high level gaming tournaments.

Re:SF4 - 2D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21020045)

Graphics-oriented gamers? I'm very graphics-oriented, and I love 2D games. In fact, in my opinion there is no 3D game in existence that can hold a candle, visually, to the most well-drawn and well-animated 2D games out there.

Re:SF4 - 2D (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#21021413)

I've been wondering about Arcana Heart. Is it good?

The pushing away was probably caused by SCEA's rejection policies more than gamers.

Re:SF4 - 2D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21019905)

I'll believe that when I see it. It's being developed by Capcom USA, who now own the rights to SF. I don't see a huge talent of sprite animators coming out of the US, at least nothing that would top SF3.

Re:SF4 - 2D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21019921)

Is it? Where did you get this information?

I only saw a teaser movie, and I fear the worst. :(

Re:SF4 - 2D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21020961)

I have zero confidence in Capcom USA. They have never produced a proper sequel to any inherited license. They have the reverse-Midas touch.

Street Fighter went out with a bang on Third Strike, though I prefer CvS and SFA anyway.

Disgaea (1)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017199)

Disgaea is 2D in the same way that Wolfenstein 3D (and Doom 2) are 2D...as in, they just use sprites.

Re:Disgaea (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018005)

That really isn't the characteristic that makes a game 2d. Commander keen starting at IV was 2d, but it had a small amount of perspective in the backgrounds, and the player could effectively go behind in certain spots. It also had parallax, but it was still a 2d game because the character could just move in a single plane which was aligned with the monitor's plane.

In contrast games like w3d, lethal tender, ROT were all 3d games, the character could move on a plane that ran perpendicular to the monitor and each room had a hight to it. Sprites just sucked, but they were necessary, as w3d could barely handle the texture mapping, it couldn't handle the sector based enemies that would pop up in later games. Of course eventually the height became more than just for looks, one could jump and move up/down stares, but that was more for flexibility than definition.

Re:Disgaea (1)

cerelib (903469) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018723)

If you are classifying a 2D game as confining the player movement to a single plane, then Wolfenstein 3D fits that category. If you remember, rooms in W3D had no real "height". All rooms were the same height and the player could not move up and down (i.e. jump or climb). W3D is just Gauntlet from a first-person perspective. As you said, "a plane that ran perpendicular to the monitor", but it was still a single plane.

Re:Disgaea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21018799)

That's nitpicking, I actually was shorthanding wolfenstein 3d down to w3d, I thought the context was sufficient.

Re:Disgaea (1)

cerelib (903469) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018925)

Huh? I was using W3D as shorthand for Wolfenstein 3D as well. What did you think I was talking about when I said W3D?

Re:Disgaea (1)

interiot (50685) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019237)

W3D is just Gauntlet from a first-person perspective. As you said, "a plane that ran perpendicular to the monitor", but it was still a single plane.

But that, along with being first-person, made all the difference. Yes, W3D didn't have stairs or crossing paths, but the feel of the game was still much more like a proper 3D FPS than Gauntlet... at the time, it seemed FAR more immersive than third-person games.

Re:Disgaea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21019171)

Even so, both Disgaea and Phantom Brave have height, the characters were 2D sprites, but the world and the game system extended in all three dimensions (no different from Final Fantasy Tactics, except that Disgaea and PB let you stack people up instead of having one critter per square ;)

Of course, 2D or 3D, both games were really, really good, and anyone who enjoys RPGs and is willing to let the game tell them a story (as opposed to complaining about how they want more control) should give them a shot (Disgaea first, though Phantom Brave is much shorter). Nippon Ichi was really good at balancing the game to minimize the amount of grinding you need to do in order to complete the games (though if you want to get all of Disgaea's alternate endings, you're going to have to put well over 100 hours on the clock).

Re:Disgaea (1)

Victor Antolini (725710) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018499)

What makes a game 3d? To me, Wolfenstein 3D looks as tridimensional as Half Life 2 (excluding the obvious quality, detail performance, etc.)
If what I'm perceiving feels or looks like 3d, doesn't that make it 3d, regardless of whatever technique used?
At least on my frame of reference!

Re:Disgaea (1)

Jartan (219704) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018899)

That is not how 2d is classified. 2d in graphical terms usually means something like the client does not store 3d data and then try to depict it differently based on where the games camera is situated relevant to the object.

This is why Doom/Wolfenstein etc are often called 2.5d or some such.

Re:Disgaea (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#21021439)

Wolf 3D uses 2d gameplay, there is no height. That may be Doom you're thinking of, it uses height differences but still only has sprites representing everything.

Nvidia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21017207)

Nvidia said so in some TV ad that aired way back in 2000 or 2001, and it featured the RTS version of Halo 1.

Personally... (1)

dreddnott (555950) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017227)

I was ready to bid a fond farewell to 2D gaming when SNK died six years ago. That was a pretty sad moment, but I was proven wrong many times over since then.

It will always be alive (5, Interesting)

MLCT (1148749) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017265)

Despite having around a dozen modern games installed on my machine at the moment (and that ranges from Civ4, through HL2 and ending up at Simpson's Hit & run) I just spent the last two hours playing Lemmings. Enjoyable, engaging, straightforward and fun. I can play it while running 5 other things & it doesn't take over my system. I don't know what the "kidz" today would make of a basic 2D game like Lemmings - it would be interesting to see if games of that time really have something special, or if I am just being nostalgic.

Re:It will always be alive (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017497)

What happened to text adventures? I used to love them. Whenever I mention them to people there's a 10% chance someone will say `you can still get them - look for Interactive Fiction on the net`, and I have to remind them that I don't mean really shit games with no graphics - I mean stuff like Infocom games, or those for the BBC Micro like Philosopher's Quest.

Re:It will always be alive (3, Interesting)

Iwanowitch (993961) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018567)

Hmm, let me be the 10%... Shit games? Have you played some of the 'classics' of the new wave of IFs? Things like Photopia, All Things Devours, Slouching Towards Bedlam, Metamorphoses, Shade or Vespers? Or whatever the latest IF competition is going to yield?

Seriously, these things are worth your time. Not as big and time-consuming as the old Infocom classics, I agree. But they do what they have to do (entertain you for a few hours) and the price is right. Damn better than most of the commercial games these days.

Re:It will always be alive (2, Interesting)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017605)

I just spent the last two hours playing Lemmings. Enjoyable, engaging, straightforward and fun

Aaaah, lemmings, probably on of the beset puzzle games ever created. I loved the SNES port for the multiplayer gameplay. Games like lemmings show you how a 500KB game can be more entertaining and have more replay time than a full blown 2 DVD game...

Personally, I prefer 2D games, nowadays I play a lot of Worms (or the open source equivalent Wormux) with my girlfriend and it is one of the only games where we have real fun and can "share" videogame time playing together.

In contrast, I have a lot of problems getting used to some 3D games, specially those where you have to calculate the depth for some kind of jump or other action, for example, in Super Mario 64 I just cant get used handle Mario accurately because of the depth... similarly with Wii's Zelda and others. I have had the same problems while playing Unreal Tournament or other FPS games.

I don't know what the "kidz" today would make of a basic 2D game like Lemmings - it would be interesting to see if games of that time really have something special, or if I am just being nostalgic.

Some kids today do enjoy those kind of games, and, if you've got a kid and spend quality time playing such games (for example, each time your kid completes a Lemmings scenario, give him a prize) they will like it more. And the educational value is huge. It is similar to the situation I have encountered several times when you put a kid in front of the computer so he can spend some time (with internet, games and whatnot) and after you return he has the MS Paint (or KolourPaint) opened and has spent some time drawing whatever his imagination told him. It is really cool to see that the simplest things can make kids happy.

BTW, I would *really* recommend the Lemmings Revolution game if you like lemmings. Unlike most of the other Lemmings sequels, this one is pseudo-3d, this is, the controls and all are the same as in the original game but you have some extra things (like two races of lemmings). The game has completely new levels (something difficult to find if you have played all the levels from the original game) and the 3D factor is done by placing the scenario as a cylinder that is rotated when you "scroll" the scenario.

Unfortunately I have not been able to play it under WINE...

How the hell can you... (5, Funny)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017801)

play Lemmings while running 5 other things? I have a hard enough time running 5 things within Lemmings, let alone 5 things in addition to that game!

Re:How the hell can you... (2, Funny)

IgLou (732042) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018541)

Silly lemming! It's easy to do when you play to kill the lemmings!

What? There's another goal to the game?

Re:It will always be alive (1)

quanticle (843097) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019207)

Kids these days like "old-style" games just fine. I have a little brother whose first experience with games was the PS2. His current favorite game: SuperBomberman on the SNES emulator.

16 year Old Cousin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21021297)

My 16 year old cousin plays a lot of Counter-Strike and FPS's in general. I also see him play a lot of 2D games when he's not in an FPS. He's not too interested in other "modern" games beside shooters but he'll play a lot of 2D platformers and fighting games.

2D is dead, this list proves it (4, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017325)

Half the games on that list aren't even fully 2D, but 3D with restricted movement. The other half is made up of decade old series or derivatives from them (Street Fighter, MetalSlug). Original 2D games are near non-existent these days, except for a few ones left on the DS, but even there its mostly sequels or already 3D or well, both (Metroid, Zelda:PH).

I do love 2D games, but there really isn't much at all left these days, especially when you want original content instead of just some new food to celebrate nostalgia.

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (1)

CSFFlame (761318) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017659)

Odin Sphere is a very good 2D only game. The lag in some of the fights is ridiculous though (it's just sprites wtc?)

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (1)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017681)

Original 2D games are near non-existent these days, except for a few ones left on the DS

You're just wrong about that. 2D fighters are alive and well, with updates and completely new games coming out every year. I can name half a dozen current franchises off the top of my head. We're an underground [shoryuken.com] community [dustloop.com] in the US, but the games are much more mainstream in Japan, where the arcade scene hasn't died off.

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (2, Insightful)

Sigma 7 (266129) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017739)

Most 2D games are being produced by "independent" developers. You can find most of these games by going to various flash portal websites rather than looking in the local stores.

As an alternative to flash portals, you can subscribe to sites that specialize in looking for these style of games. I have indygamer.blogspot.com in a list of rotation sites I have - you can probably find others from that site as well.

Even though it's not technically 2D, IFComp07 just released a batch of short adventures. If Interactive Fiction has that level of activity, 2D games have it as well.

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (1)

danbert8 (1024253) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017955)

Does Paper Mario count as a 2D game? (With the exception of the latest Wii installment) It has basically the same level setup as Ninja Turtles where you can move up, down, back, forth, and jump. The only thing 3d are the transitions.

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018165)

Super Paper Mario, just like New Super Mario Bros., is a games that celebrates the good old times and little else, which is ok, but on its however neither really is all that good, they are not, bad but they don't hold a candle against a MarioBros3 or Yoshis Island. And that is basically the problem I have. When there is a new 2D game these days, it is either some tribute to an old classic, a sequel/update (StreetFigtherHD) or something of those new "abstract" games, where you have a lot of colorful shapes (everyday shooter, geometry wars, etc.), but little if anything in terms of character and story.

Now there is nothing wrong with any of this by itself, but I miss the days where you had your set of nice looking hand-pixeled characters, a little story and a colorful world to explore. 2D itself might not be dead, but pixelart is certainly on its deathbed.

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018245)

I disagree about NSMB. That game was better than Yoshi's Island, imo (to be fair, I didn't like Yoshi's Island), and probably as good as SMB3. It's a great game which brings back the fun Mario gameplay we know and love, its only flaw is that it's a bit short.

Super Paper Mario, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax. I don't compare it to classic Mario games because I don't think it's trying to emulate them, it's doing its own thing.

Nope, 2D is alive and well (1)

cliffski (65094) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018549)

There are tons on the PC, I know this because I make lots of them. like these (all original)

www.rocklegendgame.com
www.democracygame.com
www.kudosgame.com
www.starshiptycoon.com

The article is obsessed with the playstation. 2D games are aplenty on the PC. And people are still happily and deliberately making more of them. 3D is not automatically more fun.

Re:Nope, 2D is alive and well (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018697)

### like these (all original)

Yes, they also happens to be all written by the same guy. I am not claiming that there are no longer are any 2D games, but it are definitively are not tons, but just a tiny few.

Animal crossing? (2, Interesting)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018627)

What about the Animal Crossing series? Or does that count as "3D with restricted movement?" I'm not sure what you mean by that label - personally, I like (and consider 2D) anything that doesn't make me swing the camera around, because that confuses me and sometimes makes me dizzy. If it has a fixed camera angle, even if the graphics are 3D-ish and you have 360 degrees of freedom in your movement, it's 2D for most intents and purposes.

Re:2D is dead, this list proves it (1)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020229)


Well, there are some fighting games that are 2d and are kinda new. Capcom vs. SNK 2 is a PS2 game that I enjoy, and it's 2d. In fact, the only time I've seen a street fighter game in 3d, it was awful.

But otherwise, I agree. To be honest, Disgaia is not really 2d, especially since you can rotate the grid for another view when positioning your people. And there are some cut sequences that are rendered in 3d.

The nintendo DS is where the 2d games are these days for sure. And Nintendo has realized what people reading this discussion will eventually agree upon: 2d games are *mostly* dead. There exists a small, but powerful and willing-to-spend-money niche, for 2d games. Nintendo knows this and is giving these niche users what they want, while at the same time liberating cash from their wallets. The system is at equilibrium.

Who says 2d gaming is dead? (1)

ShadowMarth (870657) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017389)

Idiots, that's who. I've played a lot of good 2D games recently. They're still fun. Played the new Castlevania games? New Super Mario Bros? Then again, I do have a friend who essentially shuns all non-3d games. Not saying he's not an idiot though.

Re:Who says 2d gaming is dead? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21019191)

yeah, those new Castlevania games with the exact same gameplay from SOTN sure are fun. Hell, they even re-use the majority of the sprites now!

I don't. (1)

improfane (855034) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017431)

Some of them actually use 3D graphics for all of the visuals, but keep the gameplay in a 2D perspective.
I find it odd that there are 3D games locked in 2D perspective. Baldur's gate, Dark Alliance on playstation was is in 3D but locked into a perspective where it's cool graphics had no justice.

As for real 2D games: A while back I got NetHack to see what the fuss was about. I was confused at first, the appeal was lost to me. I've tried playing again since and enjoying it. The game isn't about the graphics.

Another brilliant 2D game is The Ur Quan Masters, an open source version derived from Star Control II. http://sc2.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Also do not forget the Pokemon series.

This is not an old person speaking and I think that shows that 2D games are here for stay.

Re:I don't. (1)

uucp2 (731567) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017561)

As for real 2D games: A while back I got NetHack to see what the fuss was about. I was confused at first, the appeal was lost to me.

No wonder you were confused; Nethack is 3D. Don't tell me you never escaped a hopeless situation by zapping a Wand of Digging to '>' direction.

Re:nethack (1)

lahvak (69490) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018135)

or used boots of levitation to get over water or out of a pit. Rock piercers and bolders also fall from the top.

What about 4D games? "You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all around." :)

Re:nethack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21018719)

There ARE 4D games, e.g. http://www.adanaxis.com/ [adanaxis.com] is a space shooter in 4D.

Re:nethack (1)

Jame_Retief (1090281) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019647)

Bull. It is NOT '4D'. Wants you to believe it is . . . it aint. Wanna call it hyperspace? Go ahead. 4D? There are only 3D (time excluded in discussions of spatial relationships).

Back in my day games were all 1D (4, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017593)

and that's the way we liked it! Oh, the times we'd spend in between shifts in the poison mines, playing Dots on a Line...

Fighters (1)

Muffinmasher (1147183) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017613)

If you want proof that 2d games aren't dead, look no further than the fighting genre. Although more and more 3d fighters such as Tekken and Soul Calibur are being churned out all the time, they still can't match the depth and originality of the Guilty Gear series (Full 2d) or the pick up and play fun of Smash Bros. (3d in a 2d playing field)

Re:Fighters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21017937)

Please, do tell - what depth is there to Guilty Gear that can't also be found in Soul Calibur 2?

Re:Fighters (1)

Muffinmasher (1147183) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018023)

Cancels, longer combos, air combos, dust moves, counters, Psyche bursts all translate into a much deeper game with more varied approaches to different situations. I will admit that every fighter I've ever played eventually devolves into get an opening so you can do combo 1, 2, or 3, but more posibilities and tactics exist for Guilty Gear than for any other fighting game I've played (And I've played a fair few).

Re:Fighters (1)

The13thSin (1092867) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020241)

Except for dust moves & psyche bursts (I have no idea what those 2 are) they can in fact all be found in Soul Caliber. Then again, SC and most good 3D fighting games aren't really 3D in controls... just that you have another way to evade. Of course the representation is definately 3D.

Re:Fighters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21021167)

So you apparently equate depth with 'number of moves' or something. For me depth means how intricate the system gets, and not in terms of raw permutations. For example:

Level 1 - I can pummel you with attacks
Level 2 - I can block your attacks and retaliate
Level 3 - I can use an unblockable attack to bypass your guard
Level 4 - I can counter your unblockable attacks with good timing
Level 5 - I can fake/cancel a move to throw off your timing, leaving you open to a more thorough attack
Level 6 - ???
(There is no Profit level)

Moving on to the list you gave:
Cancels - already in all SC games.

Longer combos - does not make the game 'deeper', it just defines how long you can punish your opponent for screwing up.

Air combos - equivalent to juggling (besides which, whether juggling or using a ground-based punishment combo, it is no improvement on gameplay depth, merely different animations you can watch).

Dust moves - just a set up move for an air combo, doesn't increase depth.

Counters - present in various forms in SC.

Psyche bursts - I might be tempted to consider this, as it opens up entirely new possibilities depending on how it's used and when, but in the end it is the same as restricting the set of moves available. This concept is present in SC games in various forms, and assuming the new moves still have the same options for blocking or countering, it doesn't really add to the depth so much as just the complexity of mastering a character.

What about Maple Story? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21017619)

Odd not to include something like MapleStory with its 50 million users worldwide.

DS (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017863)

Personally, I like the DS because of its plethora of 2d games. Mostly this is because of a hardware limitation but I think 2d games still have its place. I really miss hand drawn games like Monkey Island as well.

Re:DS (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018251)

There are plenty of good 3D games for the DS. It could probably run a port of any Nintendo 64 title.

The difference is that back in the N64 days, 3D games were the new thing... it was one of the main selling points, the whole new dimension, etc. Nowadays we see that we're nowhere near the bottom of the 2D barrel yet.

And in regards to your last comment... you might find this [scummvm.org] interesting.

Re:DS (1)

DreadSpoon (653424) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018457)

Many of those "2D" games are probably at least partially 3D. Yeah, there are pure 2D games on DS, but most of them use a lot of 3D background or sprite elements mixed in with all the 2D.

Re:DS (1)

jmauro (32523) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018783)

I think it's more the control setup with the touch screen than the processing power that provides most of the 2D action. That's why so many more "2D" DS games are made vice 3D games.

Descriptive (4, Funny)

Boronx (228853) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017897)

The gameplay itself is, in a word, weird.

That one word description is, in a word, non-descriptive.

Re:Descriptive (1)

Gideon Fubar (833343) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018629)

how about.. The gameplay makes me sweaty. In the pants.

Re:Descriptive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21019413)

how about.. The gameplay makes me sweaty. In the pants.

You've got that right. See, Disgaea just ain't for little kids, content to play with their little numbers. Damage caps at 9999? Whazza madder, widdle baby can't count to ten thousand? Pfft, sure, you've got your damage limit break skills and items in your toy games, that gets you to what, 99999, if you spend hours to get your character up to Lv 99? Speaking of which, what's with that level cap? Seriously, Laharl can gain 200 levels in a single attack. Level 99 is for little kids and pussies, it's like playing Imperishable Night on easy mode: fine for elementary schoolgirls, but you call yourself a man? How disgusting! Now, I'll admit here that I wasn't always the man I am now. I played my final fantasies and seiken densetsus (lol 999 damage cap, in giant red numbers like that's special) and I LOLed at Disgaea too, like I'm sure you are now. But then I played it. I remember the day I hit level 100, I was fighting some level 150 demons inside a longsword, a couple of them were standing too close together and I nailed them both in a single attack. Ding! I hadn't even thought it was possible, but that was just the start. Then there was the time I broke 10000 damage. I nearly pissed myself watching the numbers pop up. It was thrilling, it was a rush... let me tell you, the numbers weren't the only thing that popped up. Oh, but that wasn't the end of it. I was addicted, bigger and bigger numbers. And then, then I broke 100000. That was the day I became a real man. Watching the digits pop up on the screen after a satisfying combo attack: 143K. My mind was blown, my britches soiled, my childhood innocence... gone. Never again would I be able to settle for those childish toy games of days gone by.

Oh, and Fallen Angel Flonne is hot.

2D Games Are The Greatest! (1)

billy901 (1158761) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017901)

I remember the first time I played Super Mario Bros. on my uncles Nintendo! That was the best game I ever played. I've played Grand Theft Auto, plenty of racing games and Super Mario Bros. is still the best. You just can't find the original version anywhere these days! I think a great idea for the original game makers would be to release the original version. That was the only good Mario game, everything after that had was too complex (for a Mario game.) I also liked Pong. It gets boring and repetitive after a while and is nowhere as good as Super Mario Bros. but it was fun.

3D games are plenty of fun too. Has anyone ever played Nexuiz? It's an open source 3D first person shooter similar to Quake and Unreal Tournament. Very fun! It works on Macintosh, Windows, and Linux. I would recommend it to anyone.

Re:2D Games Are The Greatest! (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018483)

You just can't find the original version anywhere these days! I think a great idea for the original game makers would be to release the original version.

Nintendo is one step ahead of you. Its available as a 500 point download on the Wii virtual console. (approx $5)

100% complete. And the Wii remote held sideways works brilliantly as a classic NES controller, and is wireless. I spend almost as much time playing Virtual Console games like R-Type, Gradius, Super Mario Brothers, Galaga, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Lode Runner as I do playing Wii titles.

I also liked Pong. It gets boring and repetitive after a while and is nowhere as good as Super Mario Bros. but it was fun.

I was never a fan of Pong, but I still enjoy Arkanoid and Breakout style games which are obvious pong derivatives.

Wii Shop Channel (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019651)

I remember the first time I played Super Mario Bros. on my uncles Nintendo! [...] You just can't find the original version anywhere these days! I think a great idea for the original game makers would be to release the original version.
The original Super Mario Bros. is in Wii Shop Channel for 500 bells. Was your comment intended as a complaint against the short retail supply of Wii consoles?

Re:2D Games Are The Greatest! (1)

Gothic_Walrus (692125) | more than 6 years ago | (#21021527)

Super Mario Bros. is still the best. You just can't find the original version anywhere these days!
...Are you joking? The game has been rereleased at least three times in physical form (Super Mario All Stars, Super Mario Deluxe, and the Classic NES GBA port) and has been for sale on the Virtual Console since it launched. Hell, even ten years ago the game was as common as dirt - Funcoland used to sell the Mario/Duck Hunt cart for $0.29 in the mid-nineties, and most stores had at least five or ten copies of it just sitting on the shelves.

If it wasn't for the fact that you suggested a FPS that (as far as I know) isn't common knowledge, I'd write this off as a joke post, but now I'm just confused. o_0

best games EVER (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017905)

No modern games actual gameplay can hold a torch to the Phantasy Star series on Sega Genesis or the Exile/Avernum series for the computer. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I played the, as a kid so I'm biased but last time my MMORPG was having weeks of issues, I played Exile 3 again and liked it a lot better.

Here's who: (1)

sokoban (142301) | more than 6 years ago | (#21017951)

3d Game makers
Video Card makers
Processor makers
OS makers trying to push new 3d APIs down our throats

There's still plenty of fun to be had in 2D, but it doesn't really "sell" systems and it means you have to compete on how fun a game is rather than how good the graphics are.

No mention of Live Arcade? (2, Informative)

Brigade (974884) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018039)

Plenty of great 2-D games on Arcade all original .. suprised no one has mentioned them yet.

Aegis Wing - 2d Shooter for free dreamed up by a team of interns.
Alien Hominid - not just fun side-scroller but with a fantastic art style.
Heavy Weapon - Cute 2d shooter with a nice sense of humor.
Small Arms - Smash Bros.-esque multiplayer fighter with guns.

Those are just the ones I've played .. all under 50MB, not including the re-releases of old classics. And there's still a plethora of great 2D Flash games for free all over the internet. Plus the achievements drive me to play them (and re-play them) more than any other 2D game has before. I can honestly say that I haven't touched any of the Mario Bros. games after completion unless it was for nostalgia.

Re:No mention of Live Arcade? (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018859)

Don't forget Cloning Clyde!

Alien Hominid is cute, but boy is it punishing.

Odin Sphere (1)

LionKimbro (200000) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018047)

My girlfriend and daughter beg me to play Odin Sphere [atlus.com] every single day. I'd rather be programming, but invariably: "Lioooon, would you play Odin Sphere?"

It's a beautiful and gorgeous game. I highly recommend it to all story gamers (Final Fantasy and the like.) Also to puzzlers, because inventory management & alchemy (making potions) is pretty involving.

Yes, it's weird-- read the Penny Arcade comic on it. [penny-arcade.com] It's not actually as weird as they made it out to be, once you acclimate to it. But, yes: You grow plants made out of the souls of the people you've killed, and then turn them into salads at the Pooka village kitchen, thus leveling up your hit points.

I'm presently halfway through the Pooka prince's first set. [youtube.com] (A little bit past that video, actually, is where I'm at.)

Re:Odin Sphere (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018149)

I was impressed at how badly they were able to make a 2d sprite game run on PS2 hardware. Slowdowns are inevitable in parts of the game (underworld especially) and some of the boss battles are basically guaranteed slowdown. There are also some fairly fundamental gameplay flaws IMHO (block and attack on the same button) but it does look absolutely beautiful. Since Altus is publishing it you can pretty much guarantee that it will be a rare game in a year or so and fetch a decent price on the used market.

Re:Odin Sphere (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21018617)

There are also some fairly fundamental gameplay flaws IMHO (block and attack on the same button)

I don't think this is really much of a flaw, considering that only two of the five characters can even block, and there is generally something else you can do that's a better strategy.

Re:Odin Sphere (1)

LionKimbro (200000) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018807)

...and some of the boss battles are basically guaranteed slowdown.

Oh yes, I was quite grateful for that feature.

If you aren't hooked by Odin Sphere's unique visual style, then you'll be grabbed by its classic sentimentality and tough-as-nails difficulty. -- Gamespot review [gamespot.com]


I have no idea what Gamespot is talking about. This is a cakewalk. Progress is practically guaranteed.

Etrian Odyssey is hard. The original Starflight is hard as nails.

Gamers today are soft.

I love Etrian Odyssey, but it's easy.

Topic Summary (3, Informative)

Shabadage (1037824) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018067)

It scared me into thinking the article was written by some idiot who though that the best 2d games were all on the PS2. Not the best 2D Games on the PS2. Anyone who thinks 2D games are dead should really look into the indie PC scene though. Aquaria (IGF 2006 Winner) is a beautiful game; and there are many others in development. Heartforth Alicia features some of the best 2d graphics I've seen in a while. http://www.tigsource.com/ [tigsource.com] You can find a ton of awesome 2d games on there.

Re:Topic Summary (1)

lgw (121541) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019123)

You don't even have to look for the indie scene: the most popular games for many years have been 2D flash-sytle games, mostly from PopCap. I think Bejeweled has been played by more people than any game than Tetris.

Castle Crashers (1)

joejor (578266) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018201)

I got hooked on Castle Crashers [castlecrashers.com] at PAX this year. I had so much fun with its cute graphics and awesome gameplay. Too bad it's only on Xbox360.


So, um, how long until there's an X360 emulator for linux?

Narf Butter (2, Informative)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 6 years ago | (#21018273)

The title of the Slashdot article itself is slightly misleading. Since when are 2D games even the exclusive dominion of the PS2? And how do they define 'modern'? Last 2 years? I can name off just oodles of (especially arcade) 2D games over the last 10 years, though, I suppose there are few for the PC or bad modern consoles these days, and few games (though particularly 2D) for any platform that actually try to be original. Many of those listed are just yet more basic rehashes. Even since Marvel vs. Capcom 2, the 2D landscape hasn't been all that barren. I know it's slightly offtopic, but I saw '2D gaming not quite dead?', and thought of one (PC) game that really stands out, and I still think it'd be of interest to Slashdot readers on the topic. In particular since most would theorhetically be viewing Slashdot via a capable PC, and not via PS2. ;b

Hammerfall [fun-motion.com] . I'm not even sure how to describe it, aside from "there probably need to be more Russian gamemakers". It's a non-casual physics based game that is an interesting combination of action and adventure. It reminds me of the days when games were actually something to get excited about and actually buy. If I were to buy a game, say, 15 years ago, it was an investment. You were expecting many dozens of ours of entertainment out of the purchase price. There are plenty of games now where there's no reason to keep playing after the first time, and even that's a paltry 10-or-less hours while still being full price. Then again, that (and later) was also back when there were just oodles of sharewhere and freeware games that were decently entertaining and quite a few were a bargain at $5 or $10. But I digress. Hammerfall is just very...unique, innovative, and even if you don't care about the story, the gameplay is just sublime.
There's just something satisfying about taking your beat up Flying Contraption and *smacking* an attached hammer into someone at full speed, causing them to crash into the ground, break apart part of the level (yes, really), and catch itself (and other things) on fire. And the current 'demo' is a pretty complete game in and of itself, despite being pre-release.

It's a pipe dream, but a girl can hope that someday notions like "innovation" or "original" or "risky", actually return to the gaming proper, rather than something to be feared worse than death by companies looking to make an extra billion profit this year instead of spending a few lousy dollars taking a chance on the lost artform of games.

Re:Narf Butter (1)

Brigade (974884) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020705)

but a ... girl can hope ...


Hear that programmers? A GIRL GAMER! Get to being innovative, original and risky! On the double! We need to cultivate this trend so we can camp out in the chair/couch along with them instead of being yelled at!

play-fucking-station?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21018649)

who gives a flying fuck!

(if it ain't a pc it is nothing)

Hey people (1)

Romwell (873455) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019057)

Ever heard of Soldat ? That game is played hugely. Not to mention a bunch of games made in Flash (see Newgrounds). Heck, last game I've played was Portal - the 2D port of it, to be precise. 2D games are really huge in the casual gaming market too.

Long live 2D! (1)

Reapman (740286) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019683)

Ya might be because i'm "older" but the best, BEST, Super Mario game I've played in recent memory is New SMB for the DS. No screwing around with cameras or anything, just pure good old fashioned platform jumping. I have nothing wrong with 3D, and nowadays it can look absolutly amazing, but long live 2D! :D

Symphony of the Night (1)

LightPhoenix7 (1070028) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019719)

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night was one of the best 2D platformers ever made. I don't understand why Konami put all the sequels on the handheld systems. My point being, with the graphical capabilities of the new-gen systems, it's a real shame that a true successor isn't going to get made, because it would look beautiful, and probably sound it too.

Harmotion (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 6 years ago | (#21019831)

I am a big fan of Harmotion [harmotion.com] , which is a PvP 2D shooter. It is free-as-in-beer to download and play. The game is in Beta with upgrades being released on a very regular basis.

Two things of note: On Vista, you must run the game with administrator access; otherwise the auto-update will not work (all you will get is an exit to desktop with no notice).

Secondly, even if you have a really nice gaming rig, I would recommend low graphics mode. High graphics mode can really lag your machine down, especially late in the game. Low graphics mode still looks great so no big deal.

The team is accepting donations; if you like the product I'm sure they'd enjoy a little token of appreciation. I put my money where my mouth is here, I've donated.

Not dead (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020211)

2D gaming is not dead. Why? Because 2D is not uniformly better than 2D. Sometimes, choosing 2D over 3D means your game will be simpler. Because 3D can tremendously complicate things, look at the Sonic games, they started to suck when they moved to (true) 3D for these reasons.

Sure, 3D is most of the time nicer, but not in certain kinds of games, that's why we'll always have 2D games.

Sometimes irrelavent (1)

RobDollar (1137885) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020397)

Although it's a good idea, the article is pretty irrelevant. As has been mentioned already, a fair few of the games aren't 2d at all, they are 3d with restricted camera angles. What came to mind when I saw this article was "beneath a steel sky"; a great game which could have been developed now, albeit with 3d restricted camera angles. It's a pointless list in my view, maybe a list of genuine 2d games which are still playable now would be more appropriate. For example Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter (& 2), when they were released, looked great and were huge amounts of fun, but are now played mainly for only nostalgia purposes. Other games like Mariokart and (mentioned above) Lemmings, are still regarded as great games, even though they aren't relevant to todays gaming "needs". An in a word, weird, article, and a contradiction to itself.

2D and 3D are such different animals (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21020847)

I read that there was an executive order handed down for the PS1 saying that no company would be allowed to make a conventional 2D game, no platformers or the like, because they wanted to stress the 3D nature of the console, that's what was supposed to be so revolutionary. I can understand the reasoning behind that even if I disagree with it.

2D and 3D are such different animals, they really cannot be compared. Some ideas just work in 2D, others demand 3D. The best truism is that it's almost always a bad idea to try to adapt a game from one medium to another medium. Trying to make Sonic 3D is about as different of a game fundamentally as FPS Halo vs. that RTS version they have coming out. It might be the same franchise but it's in no way the same game.

I'm really enjoying the elaborate 2D games made possible with today's computing horsepower. The home ports of arcade games always sucked in the past. I remember how disappointed I was when I saw Shinobi on the Sega vs. how it looked in the arcade. Home systems are so advanced now, you can just directly port what was in the arcade in the past and it'll look fantastic.

What's also nice with the modern consoles is that there's real support for casual gaming. Sometimes you don't feel like sitting down and playing the latest high intensity shooter, sometimes you want to play one of those small goofy and fun games. With the downloadable content available now, games that never would have gotten shelf-space in the stores are now available to try. Sometimes those old-school play mechanics can't be beat, all you can do is make the graphics a little snazzier.

minigames (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21021343)

flow and geometry wars, great fun.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...