Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

EVE Online Endures Downtime Due to Breached Security

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the we-have-a-code-mauve dept.

Security 69

Gamasutra is reporting that a serious security breach caused the closure of EVE Online this past weekend. A previously-unnoticed anomaly in a database prompted CCP, makers of the game, to close down the game world and their website while the issue was examined. The flaw was rectified, and service restored the same day. No credit card or billing information was exposed in the breach. "Explained [CCP chief of operations Jón Hörðdal], 'What we discovered was an indication that one of our databases was being accessed through a security breach. Our policy in such cases is to mobilize a taskforce of internal and external experts to evaluate the situation.' Hörðdal said that the taskforce concluded that going completely dark so that an exhaustive scan could be performed was the best course of action. 'While some may feel that such a drastic reaction was not warranted, it is always our approach to err on the side of caution in order to protect the players,' he said."

cancel ×

69 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Fixed. (-1, Troll)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 6 years ago | (#21074975)

'What we discovered was an indication that one of our databases was being accessed through a hole in our shitty programming.
Fixed.

The most amusing thing about this story (4, Interesting)

Silverlancer (786390) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075009)

The most amusing thing about this story wasn't the story itself, but the rumors. Because the main forums run off the same database server as the game (a WTF in itself!), the developers were unable to post any information except through unofficial chat/IRC/etc, resulting in a number of rumors being spread. The most popular rumor was that a rollback would be necessary due to some sort of cheating, with the numbers flying around going up to that of a 6 week rollback. Of course, this made players go nuts, and probably gave a good laugh to those who made up the rumors. Most of all, it shows how important communication with customers is.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

Paeva (1176857) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075313)

I don't know what their setup is exactly, but it seems that they might have benefited from some degree of separation between their Web servers and their game servers. The fact that they chose to take both down simultaneously recommends that they are intertwined, which probably is easier to implement (considering elements of the website that access game data) and faster, but while the game may go down from time to time, as it will always be a work in progress and also always a target, you never should almost never have your website go down.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

LocoMan (744414) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075947)

Maybe it works like on world of warcraft, that you use the same login and passwords to enter both the game and the forums, so if the breach of security comes to the login and passwords of costumers, it could happen on either end so it would be safer to take them both down just in case.

Just guessing, though.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (2, Informative)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076323)

This is correct. EVE's forum logins are tightly tied to your account and characters.

It has always been that only players with active accounts could post on the forums, and in addition on some forums players are forbidden from posting unless they have chosen to make certain information (such as their corporation and alliance affiliation) public.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (2, Insightful)

illumin8 (148082) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076775)

This is correct. EVE's forum logins are tightly tied to your account and characters.

It has always been that only players with active accounts could post on the forums, and in addition on some forums players are forbidden from posting unless they have chosen to make certain information (such as their corporation and alliance affiliation) public.

Alright, Single Sign On (SSO) is a good thing usually. But haven't they ever heard of LDAP before? Why have username/passwords in the database, especially if they suspect hackers might compromise the database? What they really should do is have external authentication servers running LDAP and have both the game client and the forums use that as an authentication source.

It never ceases to amaze me when companies that should know better do stupid things.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076291)

I believe the forums tie into the character database, which is part of the cluster.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (4, Interesting)

anthonyclark (17109) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075445)

The EVE devs remind me of many open source dev groups; really great coders, fun guys but terrible at the subtleties of customer service.

Yes, the fact that their forums and web servers all point at the same database as the game itself is astonishing. They've certainly made some weird design decisions through the years, although we're certainly not aware of all the factors that influence those decisions. Why on earth they didn't have a static web server page up within seconds of the downtime is really quite sad.

I was on the irc channels and watched the rumours fly around, it was all the work of a bunch of /b/ style folks who enjoyed trolling and watching the rollback rumours fly. Why anyone fell for it is beyond me to explain. (apart from "folks are dumb")

But the amazing accomplishments of the eve team shouldn't go unnoticed. A single game world means that people actually gain fame across the entire game, not just their little sharded server. Being able to sell some guy a battleship that then gets used in a pivotal battle involving 100s or 1000s of players is just jaw droppingly cool, in my opinion. The player driven economy, complete with scams, piracy, corporate wars and all, have kept me enthralled and entertained. (zealot mode, deactivated)

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075515)

really great coders...their forums and web servers all point at the same database as the game itself
Just thought I'd point out your contradiction. web servers are notoriously easy to hack, so giving access to the game database to the web servers is a decision that they shouldn't have made.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

rrhal (88665) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075663)

The right SQL injection attack and the Game RDMS is all yours. But I'm sure that they have an Iron clad website and nothing like that could ever happen.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21077491)

The corp lootings are inexcusable.

There are NO repercussions cause you can simply make a new character.

It only benefits the jerks, the sick, and the rich(irl) to allow it.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

Brownstar (139242) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075495)

Actually tying the Webserver to part of the game servers (particularilly authentication servers) is quite common, because to log in and post on the webserver, you need to be authenticated.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

daeg (828071) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075575)

And the proper way to do this is to isolate only the information needed for the web (forum) servers to work. Replicate one way, and only replicate the precise columns and tables you need, running a database on an isolated system. You could even implement a private miniature API to do remote authentication so you don't have to store password (properly hashed and salted, of course) data twice.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

Brownstar (139242) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075699)

Nope, replicating the data is bad, when you deal with the number of transactions that they deal with in the amount of time that they deal with them.

There's a reason DB modelers normalize data to store it in only 1 place. And replicating it (Even if it can only be changed in 1 place) in a transactional system partially defeats that purpose.

Plus while you might think rumor control when the Forums is down is bad, the rumors floating around on the forum, while the game is down will be worse. And I'm sure they have more important things to do during that time than respond to threads in the forums.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

beavis88 (25983) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076807)

I can't think of any way to say it politely, so I'll just put it out there - I think you're patently insane if this post isn't a troll.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

Acrimonymous (1164185) | more than 6 years ago | (#21078835)

A game login and a forum login are distinct data containers. That they may happen to contain the same values is irrelevant and does not in any way threaten the normalization of the databases.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076183)

I don't know for sure, but it's entirely possible that they took down the forums at a precaution, and that while they may hit the same authentication servers for logging in and account maintenance over the web, that the game servers are entirely separate. I know for a fact (I was on them at the time) that the forums came back up a lot sooner than the game itself did.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

AugstWest (79042) | more than 6 years ago | (#21077389)

Restarting IIS is a hell of a lot faster than starting up the game itself.

Running IIS against the same database that Eve itself runs on quite frankly scares the crap out of me.

Not the same server (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21079307)

The forums and such don't necessarily run off the same servers. That's a stupid assumption.

They officially stated that since they didn't know the extent of the breach, they took EVERYTHING down. Including the website, forums, etc.

Of course, this wouldn't be Slashdot without wild unfounded speculation based on the fact that, as a geek, you are God and know everything.

Re:The most amusing thing about this story (1)

Synonymous Bosch (957964) | more than 6 years ago | (#21079527)

Glad to see one interesting modded comment on this story, I haven't seen this many trolls since the battle of the Pelennor Fields!

zomg (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075017)

First post!

I Hacked EVE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075063)

Vote with your dick.

thats what you get... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075073)

Should of been on WOW.....

A lot of issues (2, Interesting)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075105)

I know a few Eve players but I didn't get on board myself. With all the notable controversies I find it astonishing it's still in business. I suppose if the game play is addictive in the flavor that is right for you, you'll put up with a lot.

Re:A lot of issues (2, Insightful)

CogDissident (951207) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075183)

A lot of people play it because its the only truely "massive" online game. WoW only has 1,000 people per server, most other games have less than 3,000 online at a time, EVE has gotten 50,000 or more people online on the same game simultaniously (with 20-30k being regular)

Re:A lot of issues (1)

KingBarrett (1177851) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075463)

Nice math... 9 million (and change) subscribers to WoW and about 222 servers listed on Blizzard's status page. Where do you get 1,000 people per server?

Re:A lot of issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075669)

1000 is wrong, but so is your math. 9 million worldwide subscribers, a couple hundred North American servers. You have to compare the right numbers.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075689)

I'm guessing he means 1000 online at a time... I know a queue forms at some point, but I don't know if that's the right number. I've also heard that, while many people can be online at a time on EVE, large battles (100-1000s) can cause unplayable lag.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075773)

Yeah, CCP really needs to work on the fleet-battle performance for the game, particularly as they encourage PvP so much. Day-to-day combat is fine, though (say a few ships vs a few ships, strike forces, etc). PvE with player vs a large number of ships runs pretty smooth.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

blackdew (1161277) | more than 6 years ago | (#21078797)

Me with some have actually measured how much people WoW servers can hold online till queues start to form up. The test was done done around mid-2006 (=pre tbc) and involved loging in with 2 accounts on the same realm at the same time (when there was queue) and in diferent factions and runing census. then repeating this next evening a couple times to get saner results If i remember correctly Zenedar-EU could hold around 7.5k before queues started and Warsong-EU about 5k Zenedar is somewhat newer (started a couple months after game launch) than Warsong, so it's possible that it had newer hardware at the time, alowing it to host more clients at once.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075739)

It's one thing to have that many subscribers. It's another thing entirely when considering the number of players simultaneously on a given server. With Blizzard encouraging casual play, it's possible for people to play 1-2 days a week for a few hours at a time (and even then you encounter queues to login on "full" servers). I dunno what the official stats are, but between 1000 and 3000 to a server at any given time seems standard for most large MMOs.

In any event, I seem to recall that EVE peaks around 30k simultaneous users all on one "shard" (really a bigass cluster). WoW doesn't even try to claim they're in the same league with regards to that metric.

Re:A lot of issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075865)

The previous comments were discussing PCU (peak concurrent users), which is different than subscribers. I'm also curious where he gets his numbers though, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of definitive data on the web. The following link seems to indicate that WOW will support 1m concurrent users with 300 realms, which would be about 3.3k users per realm.

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_T/threadview?m=tm&bn=25392&tid=9622&mid=9622&tof=7&frt=2 [yahoo.com]

Re:A lot of issues (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076379)

but the point is PCU on one shard. It doesn't matter if WoW has 1 million people online at a time if they're spread out on hundreds of shards. 30k people in a single game world is impressive, and hasn't been done by anyone else.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075861)

Except that really isn't accurate. As soon as a few hundred people get in the same section of the galaxy the servers are unable to handle it. So, it's great that it can have 50k on a shard, but they would be better off having more servers and less people on each so the game would be more playable.

It's real draw is that it is a space MMO. It has a more difficult learning curve than other MMOs. It has somewhat harsh consequences. It is basically a playground for people who enjoy griefing. The single player part of the game is more boring and repetitive than any other MMO. And the multiplayer consists of sitting at gate and ganking people who have no chance. At the higher end you get large battles where whoever is lucky enough to get out of the lag first will win.

So yes, it appeals to the elitist prick portion of the population. Or people who wish they made Excel in to a game.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076017)

Except that really isn't accurate. As soon as a few hundred people get in the same section of the galaxy the servers are unable to handle it. So, it's great that it can have 50k on a shard, but they would be better off having more servers and less people on each so the game would be more playable.

Not *exactly* true. Jita and the other hub systems regularly have hundreds of people in them, without counting the adjoining systems, and it runs fine (though with "traffic advisories" sometimes).

Now, get a few hundred people onscreen from eachother at the same time, that's where EVE falls down (ala fleet engagements). Hopefully that'll get fixed up eventually. It's worth noting that many people will never be in that situation, thought, since they're not part of a huge corp/alliance in 0.0, etc.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

XiticiX (712612) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076577)

That's because Jita has an entire node dedicated JUST to it. Even then, it still lags to hell. Other systems share nodes, so when you get 400+ players in the system, it's unplayable.

Re:A lot of issues (2, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076563)

So yes, it appeals to the elitist prick portion of the population. Or people who wish they made Excel in to a game.

Aw shucks. I knew there was a reason I liked it. I'm both. Not.

That said, I did like it, but after my trial elected not to play for 2 reasons:

1) The dev scandal was just unfolding, and I was utterly appalled with it. Not only that they handled it so poorly, but the revelations that they allowed devs to participate at that level at all, nevermind the cheating. GM abusing mechanics is bad in a PvE game like WoW or EQ, but in a PvP game like Eve, its absolutely unacceptable.

2) Because its truly massively multiplayer and PvE, your most valuable asset is the people you know, your reputation, and your influence. You cannot obtain this playing only a few hours here and there. You've got to play constantly to become relevant or important in the hierarchy.

In Warcraft, you can play once a week and eventually see the end game, it'll take you longer, but you'll still get there. You are competing against the game, and whever you play, you move forward. Eventually you get to the end. You aren't really competing against the other players, and the fact that other players are more powerful is largely irrelevant.

In Eve, you are competing against the other players, to defeat them or gain influence over them is really the point of the game, and those that consistently play more than you will always be ahead of you. Always.

I suppose if you are content to mine asteroids and sell minerals on some small irrelevant scale you can play Eve and have fun. But that's the equivalent of being an ore farmer in Warcraft and about as fulfilling.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

phlegmboy (1067452) | more than 6 years ago | (#21097115)

So yes, it appeals to the elitist prick portion of the population. Or people who wish they made Excel in to a game. So what you are saying in other words is that you tried Eve Online, failed miserably at it and went back to WoW like a pussy with your tail between your legs, calling all Eve Online players griefers because they kicked your ass.

Re:A lot of issues (2, Informative)

CanSpice (300894) | more than 6 years ago | (#21080121)

Eve has never had anywhere near 50,000 online at the same time. The record is 35,965 simultaneous logins.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075239)

Well, to be frank, this may very well be one of those cases where the problems seem to be larger than they are, due to the volume level of those posting the news about them.

Disclosure: My char has been alive on EVE since 2005.

Anyway, there was the BoB/devhax thing, which while obviously a serious problem, also only *really* effected a portion of the game that was directly involved in with BoB in some fashion. There's a *lot* of the game that wasn't really materially involved in that particular muckup.

Similarly, this downtime happened in the middle of a weekday on a Friday (well, in NA at least, potentially more annoying to the not-insignificant non-NA player base). Unfortunate, but I'd rather have them take it down and fix it up immediately, than wait and see what would develop.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Diss Champ (934796) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075261)

I've played plenty of games that were much less fun with much more controversy. Not for as long though. :)

This particular one is not a big deal. Someone figured out a way to hack the database to get items. The safeguards to notice if something happened worked, they took down the game a little while, and they fixed it. Compare to games that leave major economic loopholes bascially forever. There's really only one big (and very important) black mark against CCP, and that's that employee cheating scandal and the naivete in how it was (mis)handled. And I've seen enough abusive GMs in certain other games that that's not even unique, just something where we had expected better of them.

There's plenty I wish that did better, but which they already do better than the other games so there's nowhere to go anyway for putting a good economy and PVP into the same game. It's not the only game I play, but it's the only MMO that scratches certain itches so it's going to keep on prospering.

Re:A lot of issues (2, Insightful)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075435)

it is addictive because it is unique.

Without making a super long post about it...my #1 favorite thing about the game is the strategy forced upon a player. By that I mean the death system can be harsh. You don't just run on in guns-a-blazin and hope to kill something. This isn't WoW. You have to think hard and work as a team so your T2 Battleship doesn't go down the drain. Some losses can cause months of lost work.

Some gamers like that kind of stuff, and some do not. I for one love the thrill I get when I rush in with 100 other players. It truly is a player created world.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

XiticiX (712612) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076475)

You have a T2 Battleship? Wow, you must be either BoB or a dev, (or both) because afaik, those haven't been released on Tranquility yet.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076975)

Nah I don't have a T2 Battleship. I was just using that as an example.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075469)

It's immersive and beautiful and sci-fi in a way that no mmo to date has been. It's riddled with problems, but at the core they have a very good game, and in the end that's what wins out.

BULLSHIT (0, Flamebait)

Square Snow Man (985909) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075697)

You are full of SHIT, EVE online might aswell be a MUD where you log in, change some settings, and wait for your stats to climb as you type in `mine' and `dock' now and then. In the mean while you could watch a slide show of pictures made by the hubble telescope to get your graphics fix. There is no `grinding' like in other MMORPG but there is `mining' which is a hell lot more boring and not to mention the amount of time you need to wait (and pay) for some stat to go up so you can continue playing, i mean mining.

Re:BULLSHIT (1)

Diss Champ (934796) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076361)

This "mining" you speak of- in the three years I've been playing the game, I've spent maybe 10 hours total doing it. Most of that in the first week on a corp op. Perhaps you should look at what else there is to do in the game, instead of finding the most boring possible way to spend your time and wallowing in it?

Re:BULLSHIT (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076451)

Perhaps you should look at what else there is to do in the game, instead of finding the most boring possible way to spend your time and wallowing in it?
To be fair, that's the most effective way to progress in most MMO's. :P

Re:BULLSHIT (2, Insightful)

Diss Champ (934796) | more than 6 years ago | (#21077183)

True. In Eve on the other hand, while it is a fairly risk-free way to make ISK, you can make money MUCH faster with even a small amount of creativity. Heck, it doesn't even need to be your creativity- the people with the ideas will pay you more than the miners get to implement their plans.

Of course, I've never been that obsessed by "progress" relative to whether what I'm actually doing is fun. Case in point, I also play LOTRO some, and I'm still exploring different bits of the relatively low level content a month in- rather than rushing a character up to lvl50 just to achieve "progress". I take my time, actually read the flavor text on the quests, roleplay a bit, help out new players, hang out with my guild. I'll reach 50 eventually, but I'll have had fun getting there, which is supposed to be the point. It's a game after all. Mileage may vary with addiction to level dings.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075883)

I know a few Eve players but I didn't get on board myself. With all the notable controversies I find it astonishing it's still in business. I suppose if the game play is addictive in the flavor that is right for you, you'll put up with a lot.
Oddly enough, I just canceled my account yesterday. Reading that made me think "What button did I press?"

EVE has a great premise and a lot of good work went into putting the whole thing together. The problem, of course, is that it's a MMO and it takes way too much effort to get anywhere serious in the game. You'd have to devote yourself to it like an athlete training for an event. When I compare progress in EVE with progress made in a single player version of a similar genre game, there just really isn't a comparison.

I think what totally kills it is the grind. You have to grind and grind and grind to get anywhere. You run missions, loot the plexes, grind some more. If there were some variety in the missions and what happened that would be one thing. I mean hell, someone could say that playing Civ is a grind but each game can be so different, it remains fresh and entertaining. In EVE, the missions never change except to get worse. In a single player game, if you aren't sure if you're ready to tackle x, you save the game, try it, and if you die, reload. In EVE, you try tackling a mission you aren't sure of, if you choose wrong, you die. There's not even a chance of choosing to make a practical retreat because scramble frigs can immobilize your ship, a ship worth dozens and dozens and dozens of hours of effort to obtain.

I canceled my account because I don't have the time to devote to just this one game. There's other games I'd like to play. It's not like I can spend eight hours a day gaming, there has to be time for other stuff. I think there will always be a place for MMORPG's, just not for people who have limited gaming time. Maybe this will be a big hit for us post-boomers when we retire. Yeah, the grandkids will be rolling their eyes as they hear us cackling from our easy chairs. "Oh, nevermind paw-paw. He's just pwning some of his friends again." But I know what will be universal -- the young'uns will still be complaining about the lag.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075955)

Definitely true, EVE is a huge time sink. I never really minded the mining, to be honest, but it's definitely hard to feel accomplished in the game when playing only an hour here or there.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076397)

Definitely true, EVE is a huge time sink. I never really minded the mining, to be honest, but it's definitely hard to feel accomplished in the game when playing only an hour here or there.
I had a huge time crunch where I wasn't able to play for a few months. I trained my character up to be a killer miner during that time. But ultimately, I didn't have the time to go back and do anything with that. And PVP? Ugh. I never managed to kill anyone there, was just bug-splatted when trying to rat and earn some isk. The loot tables were all screwed up so the rats never dropped anything good.

I have a 360 now and am playing Oblivion. Man, now I know what people were talking about when that bastard came out! Very cool game. And the best part, it doesn't charge me a recurring fee and I won't lose progress if I have to let it sit a month. EVE was cool about the offline training thing, you avoid having to grind XP to keep up with your mates, but there's no avoiding the isk grind. Ugh.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076731)

I liked oblivion a lot. it's a lot better with some of the user mods applied to it (PC only). Like the high res textures pack, the anti-checkering mod, the none auto-leveling enemies mod, beautiful people mod etc.. I definitely prefer the PC version.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21077237)

I liked oblivion a lot. it's a lot better with some of the user mods applied to it (PC only). Like the high res textures pack, the anti-checkering mod, the none auto-leveling enemies mod, beautiful people mod etc.. I definitely prefer the PC version.
It all sounds cool. I just don't have the scratch to keep up with the PC gaming. I'll let a few years worth of games build up as a backlog, buy a modest and reasonable system that will r0xx0r the s0xx0r of these older titles and enjoy from there. ;)

Re:A lot of issues (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076523)

This is one of the flaws in Eve. It's a PVP game with some PVE grafted onto it. If all you do is missions, it's going to be boring. If you really want to enjoy the game, you need to start working in the player driven areas of the game. Commerce or combat. I played the game for almost 3 years, and spent a lot of that time in the thick of alliance dynamics. The political aspect of Eve never got boring.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21076639)

This is one of the flaws in Eve. It's a PVP game with some PVE grafted onto it. If all you do is missions, it's going to be boring. If you really want to enjoy the game, you need to start working in the player driven areas of the game. Commerce or combat. I played the game for almost 3 years, and spent a lot of that time in the thick of alliance dynamics. The political aspect of Eve never got boring.
I understand what you're saying but it just got too time-consuming. I understand that cooperation with corpmates is what makes the distinction between this game and single-player anything. The problem is that coordinating schedules became quite difficult to do things like a mining op. And because there's such a huge skill and capability imbalance between n00bish characters and veterans, going lowsec was just too risky to be worth it. PVP in EVE is like playing Starcraft against nothing but Korean kids, spanking after spanking after spanking.

Now for some people, EVE is the exact cup of tea they're looking for. Very good, enjoy. Have some sugar and milk. For others, it's too much like work to get anywhere in it.

Re:A lot of issues (1)

CanSpice (300894) | more than 6 years ago | (#21080173)

The problem is that coordinating schedules became quite difficult to do things like a mining op.

You need to find a different (or larger) corporation then. Given there's rarely fewer than 15000 people online at any one time, there are people online from around the world 23/7. You need to find a corporation that's more active during your playtime.

And because there's such a huge skill and capability imbalance between n00bish characters and veterans, going lowsec was just too risky to be worth it. PVP in EVE is like playing Starcraft against nothing but Korean kids, spanking after spanking after spanking.

You need to find a different corporation then. Goonfleet (for all they're derided by others) revels in having new players join, as they actually have proper roles to play. There are the elitist corporations that say you need X million skillpoints and have to fly eight different battleships to join, and then there are corporations that cater to the new player.

It also sounds like you tried to go it alone in PvP. Again, you should've probably found a corporation that had good esprit de corps and worked well together.

But I guess this is all moot as you've quit the game.

Seventh post! (0, Troll)

Jrabbit05 (943335) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075201)

But does it run linux?

Nurse, scalpel please. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075317)

Our policy in such cases is to mobilize a taskforce of internal and external experts to evaluate the situation.
How are some Dermatologists and Proctologists going to help?

AVOID EVE (0, Troll)

JackMeyhoff (1070484) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075321)

They have a history of problems including charging credit cards when people cancelled their game over and over and over... I got burned by them financially so I changed my CC details and never went back EVER, wont ever again. Its unfortunate as I was getting into the game. This was a time bomb waiting to happen since they pissed so many people off. Will affected customers by this outtage get any compensation, I doubt it. The sooner people cancel in droves the better, give them a very painful message. FINANCIALLY as they did to us.

Re:AVOID EVE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075767)

My experience with EVE has been great from the start to the present. I have been playing for a little over 1.5 years.

Re:AVOID EVE (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21075805)

My experience with EVE has been great from the start to the present. I have been playing for a little over 1.5 years.

Ditto, though with any company people have payment problems. I've suspended, left, change cards, etc, without problem. From what I can tell (anecdotally from friends and from browsing forums for a few years now), the GP's post isn't a typical experience.

So far (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21076199)

The people are staying in droves.

That's a common racket -- not just EVE (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21076761)

It is a common racket for companies to have their CC charging dept. completely separate from the customer service wing which handles your account. The reason for this is that so if you forget you have the account, it eventually gets closed down due to dormancy -- but your CC still gets charged like clockwork!

The idea is that because you originally consented to charge the card, you can't call in the fraud dept.; since you simply let the account lapse, they can claim plausible error. In circumstances like this, you are not likely to be able to document exactly *when* you "formally" revoked the agreement, which makes it more likely that the customer will simply ask to end the charges going forward -- while they keep the extra charges. They are *banking* on that; everything is set up this way on purpose. Every month that someone forgets, is GRAVY for them!

Phase 2 goes as follows: when you ask the CS rep to have them stop the charges, they can't do a thing -- the CC's are handled by a completely separate department! They tell you to fax your CC number directly to a number for that dept. which they give you. Of course, your credit card company will tell you don't EVER do that! This setup is simply to slow you down in fixing the issue. I had this happen to me three times with two places.

Wait, Mr. AC, that's more incidents than places! Why, yes, it is!

Last year I had to hold a conference call between my CC provider, myself and the CS rep of "PrivacyGuard" an identify-theft "protection" outfit which had been charging my card yearly since 2000 when I first enrolled (a mistake, I know) while their main department no longer had any idea I existed (so I couldn't use the service if I wanted)! All three of us agreed that the most expeditious thing to do was to terminate the CC# and get a new one. Well, a year later, guess who found the new # and charged it again? They can't maintain the info I would need to use their service, but damn it all to hell before they lose track of a credit card!!! I'm going to have to terminate that card outright let I go through this *again* next year.

The other outfit that operates this way is Match.com, by the way. (I am engaged now, but no thanks to them.)

The moral of the story? If you have the option, do NOT use recurring CC charges for *any* services! Prepay for a year, ask to be billed, use your bank's online bill pay, or use some other arrangement where each payment occurs at your own initiative, not theirs.

Re:That's a common racket -- not just EVE (1)

TypoNAM (695420) | more than 6 years ago | (#21077829)

For the most part I agree with you. XBox live service is the same way and a bitch to get them to give you credits for months which you didn't use the XBox live service (my xbox 360 has been dead since April and didn't get fixed until the first of this month).

As for EVE, I'm a customer of CCPs and I have for over a year not provided them with my CC (I did for the first few years, but suspended the account cause of cash problems) and have gone with getting time cards by paying with paypal instead.

Re:That's a common racket -- not just EVE (1)

Secret Rabbit (914973) | more than 6 years ago | (#21080845)

""
The reason for this is that so if you forget you have the account, it eventually gets closed down due to dormancy -- but your CC still gets charged like clockwork!
""

Actually, you're very very wrong on this one. It's about the separation of duties.

Dealing with a customers account has little to do with money (and has different skill sets). That's why there is a separate department to deal with that. And if you cancel your account without them stopping billing, then you'll be able to get that money back. If they don't then they are defrauding the CC company and you can have VISA/etc deal with them (as long as you have proof that you canceled your account). If they don't and you don't bitch to get your money back, then it's your own fault. I've actually programmed an e-store and stopping automated billing from the company that we were using was part of that.

Another real world example of the separation of duties is Fedex tech. When I worked there, before my time, tech support was BOTH tech support AND customer service. At that time, there wasn't enough work to go around to justify separate departments. But, as time went on, a separation was made because call volumes went above a certain level for each. And as a techie I was very happy that happened.

i.e. not everything is a big evil conspiracy against you.

Re:That's a common racket -- not just EVE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21083095)

You manage your own account through either their website or the login screen, you just go and edit your payment details and remove any method of payment in order to suspend your account. If you fail to do this it is your own stupidity not some scam on the part of ccp. In over 4 years of playing I have not heard of a single case of a deleted account, I have known people to suspend their play then come back as much as 2 years later and everything is just as they left it, you just access your login details, give it a payment method and you're up and running in minutes.

And in a few weeks later... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21075341)

CCP will quietly admit that there was some data theft.

Wow, the eve fanboy mods are out in full force. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21080069)

First of all, about the credit card data: bullshit. These guys are complete idiots, and exploiting their forums will get you access to the *only* database they use, which contains forum, game, and billing information. I don't know what exploit they think they fixed due to the amateur who fucked up and left weird crap in the database, but the exploit I used to get in is still there and still works, and they didn't remove the back door I installed either, so I've still got full access to the system at least.

And mods, its not trolling or flamebait to point out the obvious fact that the exploit is the result of their shitty code, and that the eve brown nosing douche bag submitter and editor try to gloss over this fact.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>