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EVE Online's Linux/Mac Client Goes Live Tuesday

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the mmogtastic dept.

Role Playing (Games) 205

The official EVE Online site has details of upcoming patch 'Revelations 2.3'. Along with a number of bug-fixes to the PvP-focused Massively Multiplayer Online Game, this game fix will offer up compatibility with Mac OS X and Linux. Though the Mac client is a native port, Linux will require the used of Cedega. The post suggests that if you'd like a preview of what the game will be like on your rig, you can download the client and tool around the test server. System requirements are also listed, as are the distributions of Linux they are specifically supporting: Ubuntu 7+, Suse 10+, and Linspire 6. Update: 11/04 14:32 GMT by Z : Fixed implication of native Linux client.

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205 comments

Hopefully (1)

Blackheim (661904) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229439)

other game vendors will start following suit

Re:Hopefully (2, Informative)

Darko8472 (966542) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229721)

Need I mention that WoW (and any number of Blizzard games) are already fully Mac compatible? Not Linux, admittedly... but it's a step in the right direction that's been going on for years.

Re:Hopefully (1)

cyberjock1980 (1131059) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229777)

Why would companies spend resources on a Linux version of their software if their software works with Wine just fine? Blizzard wrote a Windows client for WoW that is ported to Linux with Wine for free. What more can a company want than someone else doing the work for them for free? Any company that spends vast amounts of resources to port a product to Linux when it can be emulated with wine just fine probably isn't making good business decisions anyway, and won't stay in business long. On the flip side, Wine could very well be hindering games from being 'Linux native' because wine is capable of providing the performance needed to get the job done. There is no incentive to provide such software for Linux users because they can use Wine.

Re:Hopefully (3, Interesting)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230011)

Because depending on wine makes you look like you don't care about your market and your relying on a third party such as winehq to make your game work.

If Eve brings out a patch that no longer makes it work under wine and 100 people send in hate mail then you can see why maybe a native client might be a good thing.

Re:Hopefully (1)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231071)

Unfortunately the new EVE client is actually just the Windows client plugged into winelib (hopefully optimised a bit too). Better than just trying to run it on Wine though, which has traditionally been a pain in the arse.

Re:Hopefully (2, Interesting)

Nossie (753694) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230049)

"Blizzard wrote a Windows client for WoW that is ported to Linux with Wine for free"

So you didnt know that WoW was written on linux and working in beta before they moved it to windows then?

Re:Hopefully (2, Informative)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230061)

First of all, nothing is better than a native port. I don't care if it runs "fine" under wine. Maybe the shaders don't work, maybe there are graphical glitches. I want games companies to care enough to compile the damn thing for linux. All they have to do is just lose the dependency for silly windows libs, use OpenGL, its 10x better than directx in my opinion.

Re:Hopefully (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230251)

What's really needed is a cross platform binary standard and standard set of APIs...
If you could download one binary, and run it on any OS with an x86 compatible CPU. Like java, but using native code etc.
It would also make a lot of sense for games companies, write the game once and get windows/mac/linux/solaris/bsd ports for free, since your coding to the cross platform standard instead of any particular OS.

Re:Hopefully (2, Informative)

JohnBailey (1092697) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230567)

Why would companies spend resources on a Linux version of their software if their software works with Wine just fine? Blizzard wrote a Windows client for WoW that is ported to Linux with Wine for free. What more can a company want than someone else doing the work for them for free? Any company that spends vast amounts of resources to port a product to Linux when it can be emulated with wine just fine probably isn't making good business decisions anyway, and won't stay in business long. On the flip side, Wine could very well be hindering games from being 'Linux native' because wine is capable of providing the performance needed to get the job done. There is no incentive to provide such software for Linux users because they can use Wine.
Because Wine doesn't always work consistently. An upgrade can break some apps that were running well with wine, and a native client is going to work better. Games are also much more likely to do something low level that hasn't been thought of which could cause problems with Wine.

There doesn't need to be vast resources devoted to porting a game from one platform to the other. They don't have to write the whole thing from scratch..

The majority of the work is already done, and if the system is well designed, the game is practically platform agnostic already. All the animations, the meshes, the skins, the sound and music files are all independent of one particular platform, and if the engine is developed properly, the resources involved are minimized.
Just the engine and a few other bits need to be ported and compiled for the other platforms. And in this day and age, when companies often release Windows, PS2/3 and Xbox versions of the same game, isn't it more practical to design the game as easily portable from the start? Then they can tap into the growing Linux and OSX markets with minimal extra development.

Re:Hopefully (1)

The Analog Kid (565327) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230937)

The majority of the work is already done, and if the system is well designed, the game is practically platform agnostic already. All the animations, the meshes, the skins, the sound and music files are all independent of one particular platform, and if the engine is developed properly, the resources involved are minimized.

I'm guessing in this case they designed their game for Windows and Linux/OS X were an afterthought. If they designed their game for portability there would probably be a native Linux port. I dunno if a company like Loki can survive now, but even then with a MMORPG patches have to be released simultaneously or you risk pissing off some of your customers (and really it's unfair to them to do that). Holding back your patches to have all the platform on the same page risks the customers growing tired of waiting for new content. I would guess for a MMORPG its really better to have an in-house team to manage the Linux port, but that is expensive vs the amount of people playing the game on that OS. If Linux has 3% of the total userbase then only a fraction of the 3% would playing the game.

Re:Hopefully (-1, Flamebait)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229781)

Macs are worse than Winboxes. Either I'm going to go with an open-source OS, or I'm going to go with the OS everyone uses. An OS with little market share and few programs I'm going to use. That's a recipe for success right there.

That said--WoW sucks. A lot. EVE does not. This is good news.

eat a dick (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229445)

swallow that cum you filthy slashnigger!

How is parent post a "troll"? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229587)

Forthrightly expressing one's opinion, even when contrary to the masses', does not constitute "trolling".

"Trolling" and "baiting" are states dependent on the intent of the poster, which the moderator cannot know.

I demand that you slashniggers take the dicks out of your mouths and stop modding down insightful and interesting posts such as this!

MODERATORS ARE FUCKING STUPID!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229755)

please type the word in this image: immature

That word describes well the minds of the moderators: immature retards.

Moderniggers suck cocks. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229779)

Mod me down if you agree that moderniggers suck cocks.

Re:Moderniggers suck cocks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21231105)

moderniggers
A nice attempt, but it lacks a certain... je ne sais quoi, so to say.

Perhaps "niggerators"?

Anyone that uses mod points is a gay nigger. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229785)

Join the GNAA, niggers.

So long GPA.... (5, Funny)

lordofthechia (598872) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229457)

Oh god... no...why? Crap, the only thing that has kept me from trying that game was the lack of a linux port. And Tuesday? Lets see 3 weeks before finals.... Well it's official, I'm switching to business.

Re:So long GPA.... (5, Informative)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229495)

Its not a linux port. They simply packaged Cedega with EVE. I wish people would stop praising them for that...its not a native client.

Re:So long GPA.... (2, Insightful)

Spit (23158) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229639)

Honestly, what difference does it make to you whether a closed binary is compiled against Windows or Linux APIs? If the software runs well, there is no difference except in your head.

Re:So long GPA.... (4, Informative)

cloricus (691063) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229773)

Compare EVE Online under WINE (currently performs slightly better than Cedega at running eve) to Doom 3.

Oh you wanted more to this comment? Guess you honestly don't understand the difference between native and the limitations of compatibiliy layers. There is simply no comparison to a native supported application.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230115)

The EVE client is slow even under Windows.

In the "Guristas Treasure Hold" in Friggi the older of my two PCs (P4 2.4 GHz, Radeon 9600 Pro, 1 GByte RAM) has significant lag. Entering the same complex with my newer PC shows better performance on a slower DSL line. So it is obviously not a network problem but a client side performance problem.

Any well programmed FPS game has better graphics performance ;-)

Re:So long GPA.... (2, Funny)

rustalot42684 (1055008) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230983)

Wine Is Not an Emulator. Programs running with wine do run natively. Read their Web Sight - the section on debunking WINE myths.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

stonedcat (80201) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231059)

Errmmm.... Their [b]WEB SIGHT[/b]? What are you ignorant or something? Look over there! Tubes!

Re:So long GPA.... (2, Insightful)

Goaway (82658) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231141)

Says the man with square HTML tags.

Re:So long GPA.... (2, Insightful)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229905)

Its effectively the same yes but native Linux ports are usually somewhat faster than running the same game on the same rig under Windows.
Using Wine throws away the benefits of Linux's superior video and audio libraries due to overhead.
The gameplay is similar to using it on Windows ironically.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

Spit (23158) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229985)

Do you have an empirical cite for that, or is it just a feeling? I used to buy all Loki native ports back in the day and played them all to death. They worked fine but the difference with the Win version was miniscule. Same deal with ID games.

There's nothing wrong with using WINE to play games, and I would applaud vendors for providing a hassle-free runtime of their games rather than just demanding they port the whole thing.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229995)

Yeah the difference isnt massive but Linux can add 5+ fps to a game.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230037)

Yeah, WoW under wine for me was like 120fps, in windows it was more like 100-110. Small but yes it is faster, and thats under wine...

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230189)

I wonder if vista widens the gap...

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

EvilRyry (1025309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230709)

Was that with Direct3d or OpenGL in Windows? There could be differences in the engine that could account for the difference instead of just the platform. The OpenGL engine could for instance be written better, or maybe have less detail that the Direct3D version. Typically speaking, I thought Windows typically had better framerates because the graphics drivers are in the kernel, and probably better tunned for most vendors. Or wine/Linux could just be faster...

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

prencher (971087) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229899)

They've paid transgaming to work with them and make sure it runs well under Cedega and Cine, they've made engine adjustments for that fact, they officially support said clients with patches if bugs are found in em. Why do you care it's not a native compilation?

Re:So long GPA.... (4, Insightful)

kripkenstein (913150) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229991)

Its not a linux port. They simply packaged Cedega with EVE. I wish people would stop praising them for that...its not a native client.
Sure, a native port would be better, but this is still a step in the right direction. They deserve *some* praise for it.

If it lets a few more people not have to dual-boot into Windows to play games, then they are doing something right. Hopefully this will grow the non-Windows gaming market enough so that eventually native clients *are* released for Linux / Mac.

And as for Cedega not being truly open-sourced, and the games themselves certainly not, well, as a Linux desktop user and FOSS supporter this bothers me. But the fact is, at this point in time hardcore games are mostly a closed-source environment, whether on a console or a PC. Games are different than most typical desktop apps for various reasons. Hopefully in the future this will change, but meanwhile lots of Linux users want to play games, so this announcement is positive news.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230435)

Cedega isn't open-source, but they contribute back to wine, which is.

CCP paid for significant work on Cedega (and so wine) for EVE to run.
They changed their own code to improve compatibility.
As a result, you can now run EVE on wine, if you don't want to use the Cedega packaged client.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

FSHero (1129931) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230481)

...as for Cedega not being truly open-sourced, and the games themselves certainly not, well, as a Linux desktop user and FOSS supporter this bothers me. But the fact is, at this point in time hardcore games are mostly a closed-source environment, whether on a console or a PC. Games are different than most typical desktop apps for various reasons. Hopefully in the future this will change...

Now, this thing about games being FOSS has always been a dilemma for me. I know that good games can be made free/open-source; one just has to look at Nexuiz for that. But how can game-makers produce games and earn money for a salary and further development other than by selling their software under a proprietary licence? I don't think people are going to be buying technical support for the game... if it doesn't work on my comp, I just ask on forums, or ask a friend to help.

Furthermore, I have a number of friends studying games programming and related computer courses at University. It would be quite harsh if I took the view that "everything should be FOSS! Even if that means no jobs/money for you!"

Don't worry (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229589)

Don't worry, you gain skills even while offline, so you should have no problem studying for the finals, knowing that you're being 200% productive.

Re:So long GPA.... (1)

cloricus (691063) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229767)

This isn't a port, it is the windows client wrapped in transgamings cedega.
 
EVE Online has been working nicely under Cedega for around a year and a half now, under WINE for around a year, and under Crossover for around six months. Honestly if you really want to play this game under Linux or Mac you are spoilt for choice as this new Cedega wrapper and Crossover both offer seamless install and at least in Crossovers case almost seamless game play.
 
Hopefully this will help EVE Onlines large Linux community and growing Mac community play the game easily. More games under alternative platforms can only be a good thing!

Wow! (3, Funny)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229467)

WoW, really.

I know a lot of people who play WoW. All of us play it, across a mix of Windows and WINE and other systems, because one person we know had a Mac. We wanted to play together, so all of us went with WoW, even though some other games sounded interesting.

I hope the same thing happens for EVE, and they find a sales boost that goes beyond just the influx of Mac and Linux gamers.

(I won't be one of them; I have zero interest in PvP, or in playing a game which is built around real and lasting consequences for mistakes. I play a game like that about 14-18 hours a day already, and I want something different for my recreation.)

Re:Wow! (4, Funny)

dameron (307970) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229501)

> I have zero interest in PvP, or in playing a game which is built around real and lasting consequences for mistakes.

WoW has "real" consequences for mistakes?

"Lasting", in a virtual world?

Bah.

I believe you're looking for an "activity". "Games" are for people ballsy enough to keep score.

Re:Wow! (4, Insightful)

seebs (15766) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229543)

No, WoW doesn't. EVE does. They keep bragging about how a minute's play can wipe out months of work. Not interesting to me. In WoW, I can lose an amount of money that will take me as much as an hour to earn back. No problem, I can cope.

Re:Wow! (3, Informative)

EotB (964562) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229977)

I didn't think that the 'danger' aspect of the game would really appeal to me, but it gives you an amazing sense of consequence for your actions. I got bored with WoW and the repetitive PvE/BG grind where the worst that can happen is that you don't make progress (although arenas are a good start). In EVE, when they say you can lose a months worth of work in minutes, they mean it. Thats what makes the game unbelievably thrilling to play.

I can understand why that may be a little bit too risky to cope with for some people though...

Re:Wow! (4, Funny)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230017)

If I wanted a minute's play to wipe out months of work, I'd just run my programs from a root account all the time. No need to take that kind of risk for fun.

"Months of work" (4, Insightful)

Per Abrahamsen (1397) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230243)

> They keep bragging about how a minute's play can wipe out months of work.

I would never get that far, I refuse to play any game for which playtime feels like work.

Re:Wow! (1)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230317)

And in WoW you will have adrenaline rushes worthy of that one hour you'll have to spend earning back that money.

Re:Wow! (1)

xouumalperxe (815707) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230725)

Actually as a combat rogue I have adrenaline rushes every 5 minutes, on demand.

Re:Wow! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229863)

And getting a life is for people ballsy enough not to look for validation through a silly game and to get it from, well, real life.

Re:Wow! (4, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229557)

It won't, really. The Linux and Mac gaming markets aren't all that large, especially since in both cases the option always exists to boot to Windows if you really want to play games. EVE's small market share isn't due to its lack of cross platform, it is sue to its game design. They chose to make a very hardcore game. This really doesn't appeal to a lot of people since they find it to not be fun. As such, it is always going to be far more niche than World of Warcraft. One of the major reasons WoW was so much more popular than any other MMORPG before it is because Blizzard heavily took the attitude that a game isn't supposed to punish you for failure. It functioned more like a single player game, where failure means reloading a save and trying something again, rather than being set back a large distance.

So while I'm sure it will get a boost in sales (they wouldn't do it if they didn't think they'd make some money), it isn't likely to be that huge. The game simply appeals to a much more narrow group of people than WoW. WoW is one of those games that I'll recommend to anybody. I believe it is simple enough for anyone to learn to play, and anyone to find enjoyable. That is not true of many games, and EVE is certainly one it isn't true of. I'd only recommend that to people I know that are very intense gamers, and that can deal with the consequences for failure that game has.

Re:Wow! (1)

plaxion (98397) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229793)

Not that large eh? You'd think that with all the time and money companies spend on "targeted marketing" they would have realized that if they had a geeky or technical game that they wanted to sell, they could skip past all the grandmas and just sell it for Linux and thus have several million geeks as an audience. But now it's too late for that, because Grandmothers the world over are switching (or being switched by those who a sick of supporting their windows installations).

As for booting into windows... I love games and I run Linux. I refuse to pay a company money so I can drop everything and boot into windows to play a game and get value for my purchase. So here's my message to these games companies... "I run Linux. If you want my hard earned dollars, you'll have to come over to this side of the fence to get it, because this [*indicating Linux computer with sweeping motion of the hands*] is where I prefer to spend my work and play time... but chasing you on your terms, is not a game I'm interested in."

Re:Wow! (1)

cloricus (691063) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229809)

Interesting...I'm sure last time I looked Linux held around 5% of the desktop market, and Apple held a touch more. Oh and strangely enough Vista was sitting just under 5%. Guess those game makers developing for Vista must be out right mad in the head to go DX10 in a market that is saturated ... Or they could do dx9/opengl/sdl and develop for the 10% of the market that is completely untapped instead while still keeping the other 85% who use regular Windows as well.

Please think through what you say before you spout off the FUD that we've all read a million times, Linux and Mac users are like every one else, we need relaxing games too. Or in the case of EVE some thing to remind us that life is rather easy in comparison...

Also all Blizzard did was make a game that gives cheap rewards for basic tasks and added pretty colours, it rolls in everything addictive, predictable, and easy into one game and charges for it. While it shouldn't be laughed off as a game, and it can be a lot of fun (I must admit :D), it shouldn't be praised as a 'good game' as it hasn't been designed around challenges to advance yourself...Instead it is like a pokie machine, the perception of advancement for no or little effort.

Re:Wow! (1)

Loke the Dog (1054294) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229867)

I'm sure last time I looked Linux held around 5% of the desktop market
Hah! Where did you see that? In the logs of slashdot?

Re:Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229907)

Re:Wow! (1)

SL Baur (19540) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229973)

The Linux and Mac gaming markets aren't all that large, especially since in both cases the option always exists to boot to Windows if you really want to play games.
I am so tired of this argument, especially when Microsoft Windows is justified by "Hey, you've got to have it to play games." WoW is a lot more fun with a Mac than Microsoft Windows XP and I hope the same is the case with EVE (though I won't play it, I'm no fan of PvP).

Go alternative platforms. Choice Is Good.

Re:Wow! (1)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230045)

You recommend WoW to people, you are an evil person. You know once during my foray into WoW, I typed /played and it was some massive number and I just realized all the time that had been spent...and just stopped playing. Now I still play games but I have never played a silly mmo like WoW since then. I do play EvE but the nature of eve doesn't require any grinding or mindless activites to progress...no matter what your doing for say an hour in eve will help you in the long run.

Stop recommending silly games like WoW to people, its quite an evil thing :/

Re:Wow! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21230493)

Why do people insist on calling EVE super-niche hardcore?
It has hardcore elements, but that's it.
It is not a game which forces you to play any which way, and especially not "hardcore".

I have a 3-4 year old character on EVE, and I've not ONCE touched the drama, politics, etc. (you can play freelance your entire eve career and have a blast - that was infact one of the atmosphere/mood goals of eve; to incorporate that 'lost in space' feeling.)

WoW was far, far more time demanding for an equally 'in the game' feeling (and I won't even touch advancement/gear...).
It's the same with most other mmorpgs I've played. Out of them; EVE is the one that has the *potential* (if you want it to be) to be very time consuming, however it is the one that forces you to stress the LEAST to still to stay ontop of the game.

It might be this "hardcore dream" (Hmm...) of many players in it, however eve is just as much a casual gamer's dream.
Sometimes I start thinking all these people calling eve hardcore and niche/excluding, are spreading that fud for a reason.

- A freelancer in Eve

Re:Wow! (1)

doomy (7461) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229883)

When World of Warcraft alpha was given out to some of us there was a very alpha Linux client included. I have no idea why they dropped support for Linux back then. But it's probably due to driver support that was lacking.

Re:Wow! (1)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230715)

You could always vow to delete your character after he/she dies for the first time...

It uses Cedega on Linux (5, Insightful)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229479)

Its not a native client. It uses a stripped-down version of the commercial fork of the now-obsolete xwine (what with normal wine having most dx things now), Cedega. People have been running the eve online client under wine and cedega for years now, I can run it under wine and get better fps than windows in some cases :P.

Anyway, the point is that they didn't actually take the time to write a native client, its simply packaged with Cedega, so this isn't really anything to praise them for.
I just thought I'd mention that because they don't until it actually starts installing.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (3, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229537)

If more games companies (*cough* Blizzard) would test their stuff with WINE and support it, we'd have a different PC industry.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229545)

But nothing beats a native client. And how hard is it, I bet most of that code compiles on windows...take out a few windows.h includes and write your own timers. WoW already has OpenGL support in it.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229617)

It's a completely different proposition to ask a company to add another platform to their test set than it is to ask them to make a brand new build with a brand new part of the code tree just to support a minor platform. They already have to test WinXP and Vista (and maybe Win9x and WinME if they wanna support those south american markets), asking them to add WINE isn't that much of an ask.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (2, Informative)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229745)

you fail to understand that the problem isn't blizzard, it's directX, which currently doesn't 100% work under wine http://www.winehq.org/site/status_directx [winehq.org]

it's insane to expect blizzard to start supporting it's game on such an unpolished platform.

Also, MS provide very good tools for migrating your applications from XP to Vista. Can you say the same about Wine?

I have no doubt blizzard have looked at the numbers and found supporting a linux version to be unprofitable.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229797)

Blizzard has simultaneously released Starcraft, Warcraft3, and WoW for Mac and PC--on the same CDs even. They have excellent mac ports--if you can even call it a port.

Clearly it's not DirectX holding them back...

I do however agree with you that for Blizzard a linux version is highly unlikely to be profitable--especially considering the number of linux-ONLY people who would buy WoW. Most linux people who are gamers are going to have a windows box / boot to play games on already.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229827)

why the fuck would you think directX is going to having thing to do with their mac version?

as i was saying in response to whineymacbitch - WoW under wine isn't going to work because of directx.

You managed to get the rest right though - linux is just not profitable for them.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229845)

Wow, I didn't mean to upset you, it's really not worth getting mad over this, especially when we mostly agree!

The point--that you've apparently completely and utterly missed, or misunderstood--is that WoW runs on OpenGL, and without DirectX, on the Mac! There's already a complete, well-supported and well-running version that runs without DirectX. Furthermore, you can even run WoW on windows without Direct3D, using the openGL rendering engine. if you can run it OpenGL on windows, you can do it on linux with Wine. (or you can try)

Hope that all makes sense, I'd be glad to provide more details if you're interested or something I said wasn't clear.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (2, Informative)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230027)

Your wrong. I can play WoW under wine just fine, getting better FPS than in windows. WoW has an OpenGL option, next time don't start yelling before actually reading things.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230865)

WoW under wine isn't going to work

I've just spent half the weekend playing it that way. I run it with the line "wine WoW.exe -opengl".

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230109)

it's directX, which currently doesn't 100% work under wine
Majority of DX9 is supported. DX8 is supported, DX7 is supported and so on.

Also, MS provide very good tools for migrating your applications from XP to Vista.
I disagree. I saw nothing in their tools that let me just migrate my applications.

Can you say the same about Wine?
In the scenario of seeing nothing in Microsoft's tools to migrate applications? Yes.

I have no doubt blizzard have looked at the numbers and found supporting a linux version to be unprofitable.
Blizzard doesn't have the numbers for Linux.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

lordofthechia (598872) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229663)

But nothing beats a native client.
And I agree, believe me, I agree, but it's a step. When people can pick up game boxes at their local retailer and see under supported systems "Windows, Mac Os X, and Linux" it will help establish Linux as a credible alternative for gamers. The more people see "runs on linux" or "works well with linux" the more people will be willing to try this Linux thing.

Once we get big enough, then yeah, we'll probably get native clients (or more, lets not forget the Id games), but until then, I'm happy with these steps as small as they are. Now if only hardware manufacturers would put a penguin on the box if it runs in Linux.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

salahx (100975) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229591)

WINE is an unstable target (in terms of development, not performance), however. Furthermore lots of these MMORPGS have intrusive "anti-cheating" tools (And even among games, they have those obnoxious copy-protection schemes).

IT be nice if they were native, but the chances of game companies writing/porting against a more agnostic target (like SDL) are practically zero.

So at least in the near future, Linux users will happy with whatever little support crumbs we can get. But one day these digital dark ages of DMCA, DRM and Microsoft's monopoly will finally come to an end....

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230103)

WINE is an unstable target (in terms of development, not performance)
Which is why Crossover is stable. I'll also add that any enhancements they make are free to go back into Wine. Eve Online was already supported under Crossover.

Totally Correct (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229947)

"If more games companies (*cough* Blizzard) would test their stuff with WINE and support it, we'd have a different PC industry."

If each gaming company tweeked Wine to get their particular game to run, it would help all other gaming companies who wanted to do a port for their own game as well as their own future releases.

Microsoft should be forced to release their APIs as a part of their conviction for being a monopoly. That would speed up Wine a lot, and if you could run Windows programs under Wine (which is not an emulator) as good as on Windows, why would you bother with Windows anymore?

Re:Totally Correct (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230181)

And why would anyone bother writing native linux programs?
You'd end up with everything running through wine, which is hardly ideal... Wine programs stick out like a sore thumb alongside other apps on linux/mac. Wine will always be one step behind microsoft's implementation too.
What we need, is a clean stable cross platform binary specification and api set, especially now that pretty much everything is x86 compatible. Think of it as java, but using native code.

First Wine, then The Next Step (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21230265)

"And why would anyone bother writing native linux programs?"

They will, in so far as it is what comes after Wine is implemented and everyone realizes they have no need of Windows anymore.

Unfortunately, for us to get to that realization Wine needs to become better.

"Wine will always be one step behind microsoft's implementation too."

Not if as I plainly wrote that Microsoft be forced to release their APIs as part of their punishment for being a monopolist. In addition, with the cooperation of the gaming companies it should not be difficult to implement the necessary changes into Wine. The Windows API isn't exactly hidden for much of it, Microsoft does want people to know how to program for their platform.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux and Cider on macos... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229553)

So the annoucement is REALLY misleading. Fuck them.

It formally supports Cedega and Cider.. (1)

Nazlfrag (1035012) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230669)

They've worked with Cedega to bring 100% compatibility and official support. It also works on wine and crossover if you're happy with no official support. There is nothing misleading in the announcement, they never claimed to do more than this, which is all you need to get it running on linux or intel-based macs.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230083)

Anyway, the point is that they didn't actually take the time to write a native client, its simply packaged with Cedega, so this isn't really anything to praise them for.

Why? Does it really matter how they do it? If I were them and I had a stable codebase which I could run on a pre-existing set of libraries to get a different OS supported, that's how I'd do it. As long as the performance doesn't suck then that's perfectly reasonable.

They should be praised for acknowledging the practise and supporting it.

Patch Notes (1, Informative)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229507)

For those that can't log in to see the patch notes:

Patch Notes for Revelations 2.3 As announced in Hellmar's Fanfest Keynote presentation, CCP has teamed with Transgaming to provide additional operating system support for the EVE client. EVE will now run on Macintosh OS X and Linux. For further information, please see this news item. Also, a new section concerning the new operating system support will be added to the Frequently Asked Questions on Monday. * Several 'Need for Speed' code optimizations have been added to the client. * The newly supported Linux and Macintosh operating systems can now be specified when submitting technical petitions. * Various fixes and enhancements have been added to our billing and petition systems, as well as to GM tools. * If an office's rent expires while a BP is in production and is not re-rented before the job is completed, the BP's will return to the impound. * The wallet mouseover display will update correctly on balance change. * A rare error that prevented a recently podded player from opening their wallet has been resolved. * An exception occuring upon client resize has been resolved. * A number of drop down menu now have larger boxes. * A number of minor Unicode errors in right click menus have been resolved. * Several unused or outdated DLLs/binaries have been removed from the client. Important Note: If you receive an error message when starting the EVE client claiming the existance of illegal files in your bin folder, it will be necessary to manually remove them. The following are the valid DLLs/binaries that should remain in the EVE client's bin folder: o Folder: Microsoft.VC80.CRT + Microsoft.VC80.CRT.manifest + msvcm80.dll + msvcp80.dll + msvcr80.dll o _ctypes.pyd o _PyFreeTypeP.dll o _trinity.dll o alut.dll o audio.dll o blue.dll o boost_python.dll o chartdir.dll o db.dll o dbghelp.dll o destiny.dll o ExeFile.exe o NetClient.dll o NetUtil.dll o ortp.dll o pyexpat.pyd o python25.dll o RedistD3DXOnly.exe o vivoxsdk.dll o wrap_oal.dll * The following Alliance logos have been added or updated: o Daisho Syndicate o Dune Heretics o YouWhat o BORTHER'S WORD o Space Weaponry and Trade o The Immortality Project o Blue Sky Consortium o FreeFall Securities o The Order of the Red Locust o Dark Taboo o National Capital Region o Angelus Errere - Where angels lose their way o Order of Khaos o Friend or Enemy o Brethren of The Sky o The Covenant Alliance o Shinra Alliance o Sev3rance o KIA Alliance o Cold Fusion Syndicate o Ethereal Dawn o Abyss Alliance o Division of Eden o Minuit. o Acid Alliance o Deus Ex. o INTERDICTION o Daem Exalter Oni Noegene o The Gurlstas Associates o C0VEN o N O V A

EVE vs Vendetta (5, Interesting)

x1n933k (966581) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229511)

I can't speak for EVE since I am a Mac user and never played the game however the idea, game play and such seem an awfully like Vendetta Online who natively support Windows, Linux (64Bit too), and Mac and looks great. Not to mention a great backstory.

It is also quite cheap compared to other online games. Can anyone vouch for EVE being any better than Vendetta? Although I quit playing VO it was one of the few MMOs that still support PPC.

Cheers,
[J]

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (1)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229523)

Vendetta is a poor and shallow game compared to EVE, one of my flatmates was an EVE Online addict (and quite successful EVE hacker)

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (1)

toriver (11308) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231265)

(and quite successful EVE hacker)

Thanks for reminding me why I left that sorry excuse for an Excel spreadsheet with an animated background.

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229535)

Just look at the two Wikipedia entries for the two games - that will speak for itself I would think. This excerpt is interesting:

"Vendetta Online shipped as a commercial MMORPG on November 1, 2004, and currently costs US$9.99 a month (when bought in one-month increments). It is updated regularly (usually every other week) with new content and bugfixes. While "Vendetta Online" has already shipped, the game is still considered to be in beta status by both its users and its developers, and many defining qualities are still only in the stages of early planning."

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (2, Insightful)

Raumkraut (518382) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230621)

While "Vendetta Online" has already shipped, the game is still considered to be in beta status by both its users and its developers, and many defining qualities are still only in the stages of early planning.

So the difference between VO and practically every other MMOG is just that the developers are honest?

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (1)

The Analog Kid (565327) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230843)

Every MMORPG can be considered beta in some respects. It's not like WoW developers never change classes around and encounters to tweak everything. (though they've made the warrior class the exact opposite of what their aims were, to not just be a meat shield, so much for that).

If it doesn't have a monthly fee (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229595)

It probably isn't a real great MMORPG. You can look at this from many different ways: Maybe the great ones charge because they can, maybe charging allows them to maintain the infrastructure and manpower needed to run it, whatever. Point is that you generally find that the no monthly fee games aren't the great ones. A lot of the time it's a situation like Diablo 2. Where there's a lot of multiplayer, but it is little isolated worlds sort of, not the real massive worlds that everyone is in that you get from games like WoW. Kinda hard to maintain the servers you need for that if you aren't charging. Also you don't tend to get the real active development that you get in a per month game. Nearly all of them are very actively developed, new features all the time. It also goes on for a LONG time. Ultima Online, which was launched in 1997, is STILL in active development (new major engine update came out this year).

That's not to say that other games can't be fun. Just as a single player game is perfectly fun, so is one that's multiplayer but not so massive. Just don't think it directly compares to the really massive games. The no-fee games are usually more like Diablo 2 or maybe NWN than like EVE or WoW.

Re:If it doesn't have a monthly fee (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230283)

There's a second business model that consists of selling items to users to get that money. Quite popular with the Koreans and probably a good idea for less known MMOs since it lowers the barrier of entry a LOT (no 50$ up front, no monthly commitment so you can just hop in and leave if it's not your thing).

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (2, Insightful)

gverdouw (879991) | more than 6 years ago | (#21229675)

If there is one word that sums up Vendetta Online nicely it would be barren. EVE is not barren.

Re:EVE vs Vendetta (1)

number6 (38954) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230199)

It depends on what you want out of a game. Vendetta is built around PvP, and currently the rest of the game is secondary (though changes are currently in the works to improve things). Eve's combat system is very point and click - similar to an RPG like Neverwinter Nights. Vendetta is FPS twitch based, more like Quake. They're not really the same sort of game.

Death in Vendetta is cheap, so you can quite happily take part in PvP engagements (pirating, war, duelling etc) without worrying that if you die you've lost weeks or months of work. The downside is that if you're pirated whilst trading, and lose your ship + cargo, there's not really a sense of loss.

Vendetta is basically multiplayer Elite. It's a first person shooter with a persistant world and a bit of trading and ship buying/upgrading on the side. If you want deep and meaningful politics, massive dynamic economies and long term storylines, go for Eve. If you want hectic well-designed PvP, or just something to relax with (cheap death is a bonus here), go for Vendetta.

I actually prefer the graphics in Vendetta to Eve. The latter has much nicer models, but most of the time they're not much more than icons moving around a map. In Vendetta, you're up close and personal to fighters, and get a much better perspective. Capital ships, though rare, actually look big and dangerous simply because your viewpoint is inside the action.

Vendetta has had native Linux/Mac support from the start, so if you are a Linux user looking to support companies which support Linux, Guild Software (the four people who develop Vendetta) might be a good choice.

Vendetta *does* need more players though. 50-100 players is about the norm for busy periods.

Boojum (Independent Trader, UIT).

One of the only MMOs worth playing. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21229609)

It doesn't change the rules to cater to the lowest common denominator, unlike WoW and other MMOs - it follows a specific vision, and users can either adapt or leave.

The openness and freedom of an old-school PK MUD combined with the concept of Elite/TradeWars/etc. make for an amazing, engrossing game.

Given its quality and lack of compromise, I'm surprised it's managed to survive so long.

not full compatibility with Mac OS X (1)

steve12345 (720515) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230075)

Minimal system requirements OS: OS X 10.4.9 or later. CPU: Intel based computer with CPU speed equal or greater than 1.8GHz , the client does not run on a PPC.

That is not "full compatibility with Mac OS X". Their press release says "formal support for Mac OS X".

Re:not full compatibility with Mac OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21230729)

Yeah I'm sure you couldn't run in on a Windows-running phone either, but I don't think anyone would complain that it doesn't support Windows. Stop being obtuse.

Re:not full compatibility with Mac OS X (1)

antime (739998) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231281)

It's also not a native version, it uses Cider like all the EA "ports" that have been released recently.

I tried it (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230117)

I installed the "Linux version" (just a .deb that installs a shortcut that then downloads a stripped Cedega engine and the game data), but it will not run for me. It displays the splash screen... and that's it. I got the same results when trying to run Eve under plain ol' Wine a yeear or two ago. Lame. The game is so beautiful, too.

"ATI is not supported." (1)

Joeyray (262122) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230193)

Website says (for Linux/Cedega):
Video: NVidia 6600, ATI is not supported.

...Oh come on! I was really about to reactivate my account when i read this. EVE is one of the only great games my old pc is still capable of running. (mostly) with good fps. Damn...will that curse buying an ati card and running linux ever end!

No ATI support? (1)

zdzichu (100333) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230397)

Why only nVidia supported? How they can go to Linux and ignore decent cards with available drivers (ATI r3xx, Intel), instead supporting binary only (thus really unsupportable) nVidia drivers? Why they ignore owners of older Mac Books Pro (with ATI cards)? Why they code support for nVidia instead of generic OpenGL renderer?

TAG IT !NATIVE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21230661)

It makes all the difference.

Regnum Online (1)

A.K.A_Magnet (860822) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230765)

Lately I have been playing a free (as in beer, optional "premium" content model) MMORPG which has a native client for GNU/Linux too (no client for Mac though). It's Realm versus Realm only, so it's extremely basic for the rest (no crafting, no non-combat skills, etc) but it's very good at what it is: a glorified chess-board for 50vs50 battles (there are three realms, a bit like DaoC). It's an indy Argentinian game developed by 7-8 crazies but it's getting better everyday. They don't advertise it too much because, even if it's officially out of beta, it still feels like it. They want the first impression to be better to hook the most ;).

The funny thing with an indy game (few players) with a GNU/Linux client is that half the English-speaking players (the rest being Argentinian/Spanish-speaking) are Linux users/admins or IT people. If anyone wants to try it out, find it through Google (Regnum Online) and Ignis is the way to go ;).

Definitely shuts the "harder to code for OpenGL/Linux" FUD, as the engine is perfectly portable over Windows/D3D & Linux/OGL and they announced they would make a Mac version if they have a Mac. This is a homebrew engine and game designed and programmed by 7 people... and game companies can't do it? Right..

It will run fine (2, Interesting)

iregisteredjustforth (1155123) | more than 6 years ago | (#21230785)

Whatever you say, they have made an effort to make it easier to play the game on linux machines. Be fucking thankful that somebody is making an effort to reach into your tiny market, instead of whining that it's not perfect. Even if its not a native client, the game should run fine. People with decent computers can run 4 clients at a time in windows. If it was easy to make linux clients, and the money companies could possibly make by creating them was high enough, everyone would do it. The problem is theres not enough linux users, with the hardware, inclination, whatever, to make it financially worthwhile. Once theres enough of you, willing to pay for games and not whine like hell about not being treated the same as windows users, companies will begin to enter the market. Linux is a tiny market compared to windows, seemingly populated by even harder to please nerds, and you wonder why companies don't bother making linux games? Most of the comments here are more likely to put a company off bothering with a linux client. Overall I doubt this is the begining of a trend. The sort of game eve is means that a higher proportion of potential users will be linux users anyway, so they have a bigger potential market to reach than other games / mmo's. Regardless, come try eve. 99% of you will hate the game, eve is the harshest, most cutthoat, brutal mmo you can play, and for that other 1% it will be perfect. The real difference between eve and other mmo's, is the ability to affect the world and other players. Imagine losing every peice of your equipment every time you died in wow, or a wow with completely player run towns, real wars over territory involving several thousand players, a complex almost entirely player run economy, a real and working player mercenary market, and almost every bit of your kit being manufacturerd by other players. CCP can almost be seen as providing a framework for the game, the game itself is created by the players.

Broken -can't log on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21231123)

It's broken. I downloaded the mac client, installed it, paid for an account, but I cannot log in - the server entry box stays blank when I try and enter the test server IP address. Back to WOW I go.

Not a linux client (0, Flamebait)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231219)

It is not a linux client if you have to use cedega, which is total crap. Crap that they abuse linux this way, crap that the can't figure out linux opengl, crap game anyway, crap the think we linux users are stupid.

Screw eve.

Honk! Honk! (1)

tripwirecc (1045528) | more than 6 years ago | (#21231261)

I'm actually glad that they're going for the Cedega/WINE option, because like this I can run it quasi natively in Solaris. If it were a real Linux binary, I'd have to run it in a lx zone and bounce everything back to the X server via TCP/IP.
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