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YouTube Video Warned About School Shooting

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the getting-godwin-out-of-the-way-early dept.

The Internet 426

mytrip writes to tell us that CNN is reporting at least eight dead in a Finland school shooting that was apparently planned out in graphic videos posted to YouTube. "YouTube appeared to have removed 89 videos linked to his account, many of them featuring Nazi imagery, shortly after the incident. Finnish media reported someone posted a message two weeks ago on the Web site, warning of a bloodbath at the school. A video posted earlier Wednesday, by 'Sturmgeist89,' was titled 'Jokela High School Massacre - 11/7/2007.' 'Sturmgeist89' identified himself as Auvinen, and said he chose the name 'Sturmgeist' because it means 'storm spirit' in German."

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426 comments

SLASHDOT SUX0RZ (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273305)

_0_
\''\
'=o='
.|!|
.| |
slashdot post warns about goatse [goatse.ch]

Re:SLASHDOT SUX0RZ (0, Offtopic)

Smordnys s'regrepsA (1160895) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273367)

Didn't you get the memo? The current sickout is 2girls1cup, and it is glorious.

Re:SLASHDOT SUX0RZ (-1, Troll)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273461)

Ah, a fellow bangedup.com viewer...never thought I would meet one here on teh slash...

Obviously (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273321)

The correct solution to this situation is to arrest anybody who advocates a neo-Nazi ideology or questioned the historical orthodoxy about the 'holocaust'.

Re:Obviously (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273371)

This is modded +1 Interesting? The above comment is offensive since it implicitly questions the existence of the Holocaust with the use of the quotation marks around the word.

Re:Obviously (0, Flamebait)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273703)

Yes, well, most of the moderators are too mentally retarded and too shallow in their knowledge of history and of various vile movements like neo-Nazis and Holocaust Deniers to recognize one of these repugnant groups taglines.

Shame on the moderator involved, and shame on everyone that helped to get this fucking retard any karma at all. You're pathetic and useless, and just as bad as the Holocaust Denying scumbag you moded up.

Re:Obviously (0, Flamebait)

oyenstikker (536040) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273395)

No. The correct solution is to arrest anybody who posts videos on YouTube.

Re:Obviously (4, Funny)

n dot l (1099033) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273447)

No. The correct solution is to arrest anybody who posts videos on YouTube.
Only if we can also arrest those who post comments on YouTube.

Re:Obviously (5, Funny)

PachmanP (881352) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273659)

Only if we can also arrest those who post comments on YouTube.

No, they shouldn't be arrested but simply shot on sight.

Officer: "Are you H4wTKat666?"
H4wTKat666: "lolz yaeh y?"
Officer: "Did you post this?"
*lolz OMG u r a fag. tHeys is FAKE!11!oneone*
H4wTKat666; "lolz yaeh"
*Officer shoots H4wTKat666*


I guess in afterthought, this could be in bad taste. Oh well.

Re:Obviously (1)

jc87 (882219) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273473)

Are you joking or in LSD?

I hate those morons as much as the next guy, but come one, they have the right to be idiots, just not the one to hurt other people!

Re:Obviously (1)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273547)

I was wondering the same thing, the sad part is there really are people who think the basic human right of free speech means anything not offensive so its kind hard to tell if the GP is serious or not..

Re:Obviously (1, Funny)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273503)

That's ridiculous and stupid. He tended to show a smug arrogance, thinking that "the weak-minded masses" were stupid and didn't deserve to live. It reminds me of a lot of the attitudes that I encounter on slashdot, including yours.

Re:Obviously (2, Funny)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273805)

Oh come on, we don't think the weak-minded masses should be killed, we just think they should use OpenOffice.org!

Re:Obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273537)

I took the parent's post as a joke since he's obviously advocating a neo-Nazi ideology...

What's Nerd about this Article? (-1, Flamebait)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273667)

How is this nerd news? Who cares? It's just more political crap about how the internet is the source of all evil and we need to shut everyone up who speaks their mind...etc..etc.

It does not address any issue or topic that won't get trumpeted to death on your local commercial news network and has no technical implications for anybody.

Re:What's Nerd about this Article? (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273739)

Then don't open the fucking topic, you half-wit toadhead.

Re:What's Nerd about this Article? (4, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273787)

How is this nerd news?

He posted to YouTube! (That's on the intarweb)
He is an alienated youth! (like many /. readers)
Linus Torvalds is also Finnish! (though they probably did not know each other)

Geek - O - Rama

Re:Obviously (1)

Smordnys s'regrepsA (1160895) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273673)

...and place them in camps!

Interesting (4, Interesting)

Biotech9 (704202) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273325)

The shooter left a few documents (including a 'manifesto', a video of him shooting his 0.22 pistol in the woods and picture of himself) open to the public;
Freaky stuff.... [zami.pp.fi]

Re:Interesting (5, Funny)

Funkcikle (630170) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273463)

On the plus side, he uses PNG format for his images.

Re:Interesting (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273655)

Did YouTube enable this guy to get his message out?

Maybe YouTube should be banned from minors, just like violent video games...

And yes, this is meant to be completely ridiculous!

Re:Interesting (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273979)

They would have caught him sooner if only he would have used copyrighted music in his video posts

Re:Interesting (5, Insightful)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273495)

The eternal question: Is he just messed up, or is he scary messed up?

People always telegraph their intentions beforehand, but seeing it is almost always reserved for after the fact. Most attempts to predict this sort of behaviour run aground on the fact that it doesn't sound all that different from regular messed up behaviour. Of course a lot of people would like to stomp that out, but a lot of antisocial people still don't go to the point of mass murder...or even solo murder, or self-murder.

I look at things like this, and my first response is never: "Oh gosh, we should have seen it coming!" For every real nutjob, there are a hundred others who are just being young, alienated, and angry. Every quasi-normal action is held up as a "warning sign" and every admittedly abnormal action is magnified, and then used to villify people who "should have seen it coming."

I don't know. Just my experience that, every time something like this happens, it's used as an excuse to harass people who don't fit the "normal" mold, whatever the hell that is, and when, in reality, 99% of the people you're harassing have done nothing wrong, and will do nothing wrong.

Re:Interesting (1)

torkus (1133985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273583)

A hundered others? Way more than that!

I can't count the number of times myself or someone else in elementary, middle, and high school got pissed off and said 'i'm going to kill you'.

No shooting that I recall and I put in 15 years. 1600 people at my high school.

Better question..."where were the parents" when google wasn't filtering the internet, youtube didn't have a therapist review every post, the school didn't notice the anti-social behavior, his friends didn't let anyone know he was so disturbed... Not that the parents are responsible. Clearly all the others are though.

Re:Interesting (2, Interesting)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273677)

Oh sure, that wasn't meant to be a real number, just a piece of hyperbole. Truth of it is, school shootings are absurdly rare...They seem a lot less rare because the media makes so much of them.

For the number of people who dream of getting a gun and mowing down their high school (myself included on several occasions, and I was in college when Columbine happened), the number of people who actually do it is as low as can be.

I certainly think parents are the first line of defense. Teacher's can't be expected to "sense" when a kid is about to snap and start killing people, but a parent should notice that sort of nihilism, and at least get them to therapy, where a professional would have a chance of doing a real evaluation. Not to say that I'm a big fan of psychotherapy, but still.

Re:Interesting (1)

Dare nMc (468959) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273995)

Teacher's can't be expected to "sense" when a kid is about to snap and start killing people, but a parent should notice that sort of nihilism, and at least get them to therapy


as you say, apparently 99.99% +- .01% of the time Worst case is avoided. Doesn't stop many people from mistakingly thinking that schools are the biggest threat to their children. At some point young adults have to learn how to recognize danger to.

Re:Interesting (5, Insightful)

cromar (1103585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21274019)

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that violent fantasies -- not actions, but fantasies -- are therapeutic and cathartic. Dante wasn't a crazed devil because he imagined and wrote The Divine Comedy. Nor was Shakespeare because he wrote King Lear and Macbeth. Look at just about any piece of creative work and you will find violence and usually a non-psychotic who wrote it.

Re:Interesting (1)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273721)

But...but...think of the Children! As Stephen Colbert said "Live Free or Do Whatever It Takes So I Don't Die"

Re:Interesting (1)

xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D (1160707) | more than 6 years ago | (#21274033)

Indeed. As I was reading through his manifesto, just about every sentence I thought "this could come from just about any Slashdotter", which I guess is slightly ironic considering it's all about how everyone is a robot/slave (part of the "retarded masses") and he's the only one intelligent/strong-minded enough to see through it. But what's the manifesto about? The human race is devolving, he's the most intelligent person to have ever lived, that social Darwinism is valid, that proper grammar is optional (okay that was a cheap shot considering English isn't his first language). Sounds like a run-of-the-mill Slashdot comment to me.

Admittedly the 89 YouTube videos put him over the top, but just based on his writings, he could be one of probably millions of angsty people in the world today.

Re:Interesting (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273569)

HyîkkÑyksen Tiedot.doc

So, basically, he let out this Media Kit, hoping to imprint his manifesto in our souls in fiery letters. However, his tactic is doomed - due to technological considerations, his data is being eaten. Over the preceding hours, I've watched this thing getting mirrored in various locations... but this particular file's name keeps changing, because it has non-ASCII characters. (It's supposed to be named "Hyökkäyksen Tiedot.doc", in case you were wondering. I hope it gets posted right when I hit submit. It looks okay in preview, but hey, this is Slashdot, Eater of High-Bit Characters. =)

Is this truly the state of computing in 2007? Data rot hits in mere hours of releasing any kind of information? This is pathetic! Utterly pathetic!

I, for one, am quite saddened by the case (of course), but I can't fail to see the humorous sides of the case. (Please don't blame me. It's just one of my ways to cope with the tragedies.)

Idiot (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273601)

If you want to further natural selection, fuck a lot and have as many children as possible. Make lots of money to distribute to the most smart/healthy/ambitious of your sons so that they can also get lots of women. But don't stop there - there is always a chance and, in our society, a probability that others will be taken care by someone else and live to reproduce. Make frequent sperm donations to clinics as well. Why not?

The most stupid thing you can do is go on a mass shooting and then kill yourself. You are only eliminating a statistically insignificant number of competitors for your children and other relatives. If you could take over the whole country and do a proper genocide of people, especially men, with different nationality from yours and then setup a huge harem it might be different. But even then, you will plunge the country into chaos that will not be good even for your decentdents' survival and reproduction.

This guy should definitely make a Darwin award, if only because he mentioned evolution before eliminating himself from the gene pool.

No wonder he was a psychopath!... (1)

treofan (960278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273901)

He's got a Unibrow! ..oh, wait. So do all my geek friends...

That ain't cool (1)

dippitydoo (1134915) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273333)

No Bueno man, No bueno.

It's the media (4, Funny)

Reader X (906979) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273343)

I blame video games.

Well, someone had to say it.

/bracing for media hysteria to follow

Re:It's the media (5, Insightful)

Max Romantschuk (132276) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273457)

While it's reasonable to assume that some people will react with "We should ban X" -reactions, judging from the recent local news (I live in Finland) I think this time around there will be more talk about how no one noticed what was happening inside the shooters head and less about what to blame.

Interestingly, the news interviewed a friend of his who apparently hadn't noticed anything much more than the kid keeping to himself. It seems to have come as a surprise to everyone.

The shooter's manifesto also claimed that he did not wish anyone to be blamed for his own actions. It seems he saw the media reaction coming.

Ultimately, much depends on the survival of the shooter. When I last saw the news at 22:00 local time he was alive but in a critical state after having shot himself in the head. If he does survive the aftermath will hopefully have less guessing to be done.

There's a Wikipedia article about the Jokela school shooting [wikipedia.org] as well, with some bits and pieces of information.

Re:It's the media (3, Insightful)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273587)

People always do those types of recriminations afterward; "Oh why did we not heed all these warning signs which are now obvious."

The truth of it is, those warning signs are almost never obvious beforehand, because if they were, someone would have locked the guy up. A lot of the behaviour which is "obvious evidence of psychosis" could have a lot of interpretations if the person never kills anyone.

I hope people are more sane in Finland than over here in the states, because something like that happening here would provoke nothing but unproductive attempts to restrict freedoms, hours and hours of meaningless television commentary, and a host of lawsuits.

Re:It's the media (1)

sharp-bang (311928) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273593)

Interestingly, the news interviewed a friend of his who apparently hadn't noticed anything much more than the kid keeping to himself.

As an acquaintance of another school shooter (Gang Lu [wikipedia.org] ) I am not surprised by this observation. No one saw it coming then, either.

Ultimately, much depends on the survival of the shooter.

His death is now being reported.

Don't ban YouTube (4, Funny)

dedazo (737510) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273347)

No, destroy it. Take off, nuke the whole thing from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

While you're at it, ban guns, condoms, Gucci, sharp objects, blunt objects, Hello Kitty, the internet, pipes, pr0n, "Humanity is overrated" T-shirts, cottage cheese, IBM, plastic rulers, bubble gum, cloned sheep, ballpoint pens, Ray-Ban glasses, Fark, and Day-Glo. Oh, and CowboyNeal.

The children. Think of the children, for god's sake.

Re:Don't ban YouTube (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273403)

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Don't ban YouTube (4, Funny)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273459)

While you're at it, ban guns, condoms, Gucci, sharp objects, blunt objects, Hello Kitty, the internet, pipes, pr0n, "Humanity is overrated" T-shirts, cottage cheese, IBM, plastic rulers, bubble gum, cloned sheep, ballpoint pens, Ray-Ban glasses, Fark, and Day-Glo. Oh, and CowboyNeal.

I'm almost with you here man, but what do you have against cottage cheese?

Re:Don't ban YouTube (5, Funny)

torkus (1133985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273553)

"I'm almost with you here man, but what do you have against cottage cheese?"

Because it gets into thighs somehow and is capable of totally ruining the view at the beach.

Re:Don't ban YouTube (1)

theantipop (803016) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273681)

And SUVs, and people who drive them, and bluetooth ear pieces, and pedantic assholes. Oh and people who stand in the middle of escalators!

this is fun!

Re:Don't ban YouTube (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273693)

Why do so many people think that simply regurgitating Simpson's dialog is so fucking funny? It has to be the least creative form of humor imaginable.

Re:Don't ban YouTube (1)

dedazo (737510) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273915)

You're going to have to explain to me which part of that is the Simpsons? I'm a big Family Guy fan but I must confess my exposure to the former is rather limited. Is it the children bit? Because the first part is a classic line from Aliens and the second I like totally made up.

When we're done, I'll buy you a sense of humor. Having to dissect and explain my own attempts at it are really depressing, so I want to avoid it in the future.

Re:Don't ban YouTube (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273955)

Why do so many people think that simply regurgitating Simpson's dialog is so fucking funny? It has to be the least creative form of humor imaginable.

Is it less creative than endlessly complaining about what people do on slashdot? :)

Very funny, you hate filled fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273867)

Don't forget to ban twitter [slashdot.org] .


Re:Don't ban YouTube (1)

m4ximusprim3 (619388) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273883)

The internet is pipes. sheesh

Shut down YouTube (1, Interesting)

a_nonamiss (743253) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273355)

Clearly YouTube is at fault here. I mean, people aren't responsible for their own actions, so we need to blame someone. I hope the people at YouTube can sleep at night...

/sarcasm

Re:Shut down YouTube (1)

ShiningSomething (1097589) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273401)

Clearly, it is not YouTube but the government, who should be actively patrolling the videos posted by angsty teenagers promising to take their revenge on the world. I mean, how many can their be? Right?

Why is parent modded up? (1)

plasticsquirrel (637166) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273605)

There was no suggestion of anyone blaming YouTube in the summary or in the article. WTF?

Re:Why is parent modded up? (1)

Stanislav_J (947290) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273735)

It's called "sarcasm." Look it up [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Why is parent modded up? (1)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273809)

"There was no suggestion of anyone blaming YouTube in the summary or in the article. WTF?"

Yet.

There may never be one, because it's in Finland, and their "ZOMG THINK OF TEH CHILDRENS" reflex is not as annoying as the one in the states.

If it had happened in the states, there would be calls to ban guns, youtube, games, certain types of music (KMFDM again), and calls to arm principles, put armed guards in schools, arm teachers, arm other students...etc.

It's a huge waste of time and energy. This stuff happens. We all wish it didn't but it does. It's always some quiet kid, who no one thinks twice about, until wham, he's gunning down people in the halls, and then everyone in the world should have seen it coming, and it's all because of whatever pet peeve people have about society.

Re:Why is parent modded up? (1)

a_nonamiss (743253) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273897)

I just did a Google News search on the story. I picked 10 links to follow at (pseudo) random. Of those 10 links, 9 mentioned YouTube by name in the first paragraph. 3 in the first sentence. The word "blame" is very strong right now, but if I didn't know better, it would be easy for me to assume a real connection. Mark my words, within a few weeks, people will be blaming YouTube, just like people openly blame bands like Rammstein, Marilyn Manson and KMFDM for the Columbine massacre.

Re:Shut down YouTube (1)

phobos13013 (813040) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273627)

I'm assuming this is sarcasm. I'm only upset with YouTube for taking down the clips! Why do such a thing? This is important information and evidence and yet, censored! Why?

Re:Shut down YouTube (1)

physicsboy500 (645835) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273749)

What's sad is the mainstream media will probably make it sound like Youtube's fault (or at least suggest it) even though Youtube simply acted as an outlet for a deranged individual.

I personally think it's great that Youtube is around and can potentially help prevent incidents exactly like this one.

Let us postulate what would have happened in a world without Youtube: Generally people like this are reaching for some sort of attention from a world that has "turned its back on them." They would go through the same practicing and preparing routine similar to what the article describes in an effort to gain attention. Most likely he would have eventually carried through with the plan regardless. With an entire video library at public disposal, a wider chance is given that someone will notice something out of the ordinary and report it.

It is terrible that tragedies like this happen, but we are becoming more aware of the "warning signs" and I think sites like Youtube will help in picking up on these.

Real reason for his name... (2, Informative)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273359)

Sturmgeist is a Norwegian metal band.

On his youtube page he claimed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273589)

"My new account name is German and means "Stormspirit" in English." So I wouldn't be so sure that he chose it because of that band.

finally off the firehose (-1, Redundant)

Bazards (1081167) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273383)

Articles on this have been on the firehose all day, one finally made it through.

Re:finally off the firehose (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273493)

Articles on this have been on the firehose all day, one finally made it through.
Thanks for the firehose commentary. I knew something was missing; now Slashdot is complete.

How freedom is lost (3, Insightful)

riceboy50 (631755) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273407)

How else could career politicians stay in power other than to appease the masses with knee-jerk measures that strip a small piece of freedom away? Who needs the long-term big picture when there are kids dying today? </sarcasm>

Re:How freedom is lost (1)

palantir0 (945761) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273577)

Yeah, think V here...as in the movie. FUD with capital F causing supposed sane people believing in freedom to give them up for the fallacy of security. Perceived security isn't security is delusion. Hold freedom tightly because its a bitch to get it back! Cheers

Re:How freedom is lost (4, Insightful)

sqrt(2) (786011) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273647)

When the PATRIOT act was passed I said if an attack of this magnitude (9/11) every 50 years is the price of liberty it's still worth it.

And that may sounds selfish if you know someone who died on 9/11 but I have to live in the US too, so I have just as much chance of dying as anyone. People die from guns; worth it for the freedom to own guns. People die from drugs; worth it to have the freedom to control your own body. People die from terrorist attacks; worth it to have freedom and privacy. The only way you can win against terrorism is by not fighting it and LIVING FREE. Don't take stupid risks, but by far the bigger danger is from over correcting and NOT from doing too little. This is not something people like to hear, and so we get stories like this one and the politicians take away our guns, our drugs, our privacy and we say it's worth it to protect ourselves. I fear that the sun will rise on a day when a generation of Americans wakes up and finds that they no longer have any freedoms left to give.

Of course it is. (5, Insightful)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273977)

God the PATRIOT act is a fricking nightmare. Has it made anyone safer?

The real issue is, 9/11 won't happen again. As a country, we've learned our lesson about "just sit tight and wait" when it comes to plane hijacking. Box cutter? You best have a flamethrower next time, because me and everyone in business class are going to beat you to death with our laptops as soon as you start trying to wave that piddly crap in our faces. Akbar Macbook, Bitch!

It was a surprise. People bought it. That day has passed. But in response we have done unto ourselves far worse things than they could have ever hoped to have accomplished. Massively stupid.

And we will have other successful attacks on our soil. It's inevitable that, over time, everyone will miss someone. The occasional deranged teen will go on a shooting rampage. The occasional terrorist will pull off a successful attack.

But the fact that there is a possible danger is not a reason to upend your entire society. Analyze, find your mistakes, and correct them...Don't throw out a system that failed once, and try to replace it whole cloth with something new, designed by committee! Ridiculous.

Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273437)

His spirit is alive and lives among us!

Re:Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil! (1)

Max Romantschuk (132276) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273519)

Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil!

His spirit is alive and lives among us!
And the sad thing is that there's a 50-50 chance this wasn't just a stupid teen trolling, but someone actually believing in Nazi ideology who wrote that...

Re:Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil! (2, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273855)

I've seen enough anti-Semitic monsters on Usenet that I don't take anything for granted. These people do exist, and do use the Internet to get their lies and venom out there. Matt Giwer [nizkor.org] is probably one of the most infamous, and one that I've crossed paths with a few times.

Re:Heil Hitler! Sieg Heil! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273945)

And the sad thing is that there's a 50-50 chance this wasn't just a stupid teen trolling, but someone actually believing in Nazi ideology who wrote that...
One less now.

Psychological state of mind and applicable laws? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273467)

What's to say he's not insane? Do those tricks work outside of the U.S.? (I realize full well that not all of those cases are "tricks," but I've seen enough to not buy into it for the majority of folks in the U.S.)

Fart (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273487)

I farted and it came out of my butt.

Re:Fart (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273871)

Was this before of after the shooting? And is it on JewTube?

Now go back to your xbox.

Crazy Idea (-1)

torkus (1133985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273513)

Give everyone guns. Educate them about their use.

Remove 90% of the police force. Save billions.

Next time some idiot points his AK-47 at a crowd he'll enjoy being shot down by a few people in the crowd before he gets very far.

In fact, would you try to rob a gas station or convinience store if you knew the clerk was armed and, probably, most of the people shopping in there?

Re:Crazy Idea (4, Insightful)

BewireNomali (618969) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273575)

M.A.D. It worked for your superpowers. Now let's make it work for you.

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

wattrlz (1162603) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273579)

Just be sure everybody uses hollowpoints. Over penetration is a bitch.

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273633)

And lower-powered rounds. No need for (since it's Finland) 7.62x54R when x39 or x25 will do.

Re:Crazy Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273663)

Thats not what your mum says....sorry couldn't help it it just kinda exploded out of my mind and through the keyboard.

Re:Crazy Idea (2, Insightful)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273685)

That's not a crazy idea, that's the most retarded idea I've ever heard.

Yes, lets give children guns, look at how well thats working out for them in African countries in civil war.

Re:Crazy Idea (2, Informative)

ShiningSomething (1097589) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273795)

If you had RTFA, you would have seen that hunting is popular in Finland, and out of five million total population there are two million guns in circulation. Legal guns, that is. They are educated. Also, this was nothing like an AK-47. You could be being sarcastic, but unfortunately I doubt it. So get your facts straight.

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

PlantPerson (781437) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273829)

That's not a good idea, and this is why:
1. Just because everyone has guns and is theoretically "educated about their use," that doesn't mean all of them are good shots. One man with a gun will cause less destruction than if there's one man with a gun and sixty people trying to shoot him. That many guns going off would probably lead to more causualties, not fewer.

2. When the police arrive on the scene, they will see many people with guns. How will they tell which one is the maniac and which are the innocent people trying to protect themselves? When there's only one guy with a gun, the police can tell instantly which one is the dangerous one.

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

doggod (1081287) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273887)

As the bumper sticker says, "An armed society is a polite society."

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

jandoedel (1149947) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273891)

would you want to HAVE a convenience store if you knew most of your customers had guns?

Re:Crazy Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273895)

In fact, would you try to rob a gas station or convinience store if you knew the clerk was armed and, probably, most of the people shopping in there?
Sure. Wait until the store is empty, then just shoot the clerk before he has time to react.

This is what escalation does: if no-one has a weapon, you can threaten them with a knife. If everybody has a knife, you can threaten them with a gun. If everybody has a gun, you don't threaten them, you kill them before they can get you.

In all of these scenarios the unscrupulous win, but the outcome from the POV of the victim is quite different.

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

spiffmastercow (1001386) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273929)

Here's the problem... Would I try to rob a gas station if I knew the clerk was armed? No. But I wouldn't try to rob the gas station anyway.

Would a strung out tweaker who's been up for 12 days try to rob a gas station, knowing the clerk was armed? Quite possibly, and would've just made it easier for him to obtain a weapon, and know how to use it.

Furthermore, what if you THOUGHT someone was about to rob the gas station, when they were only pulling out their gun-shaped novelty lighter? Would you shoot that person?

It's a nice argument in theory.. But it assumes that people 1.) are rational, and 2.) don't mistake others' intentions.

Re:Crazy Idea (1)

Kazrath (822492) | more than 6 years ago | (#21274013)

I actually agree with your sentiment. The problem with societies when it comes to arms is the mixed opinions on having arms. If either extreme ever happened the amount of violent crime would drop siginifcantly. Basically if 100% of people had guns or 100% of people did not have guns the effect would be basically the same.

The problem is 100% of people having handguns is more likely to happen as you cannot take guns away from people who illegal posses them.

Blame this failing society (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273539)

Society sucks. Kids know they're going to grow up to be corporate serfs, the people who succeed are scumbags, oligarchies rule our governments, every other city block is ghetto, the earth is polluted and overpopulated with stupid people, jobs are boring, technology generally fails, and so on.

Sometimes they opt out. Suicide is the leading killer of youth. Sometimes you get a smart one who fights back by taking out whatever idiots he can reach. I have empathy for this young man, and possibly for his victims, but blaming him for this is as stupid as blaming YouTube or gun manufacturers. Our society is failing and most of you are in denial.

Finland and the Nazis (5, Interesting)

Dynamoo (527749) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273543)

I'll start off by saying that I work with quite a lot of Finns and they're a great bunch of people who I have a great respect for.

However, Finland has a unique relationship with Nazism that Americans and other Europeans don't really know much about. The history of Finland during the Second World War [wikipedia.org] is quite different from any other country. To a certain extent, the Nazis could be argued as the saviours of Finland, because historically Finland's greatest struggle has always been with Russia.. and to that extent, Germany was a natural ally during WW2.

The dichotomy is that the Finns are a democratic and fair-minded people, and the Nazis were exactly the opposite. But as the famous saying goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" - and this is precisely what happened during the war.

I'm not saying that Finns are fascists, and I'm not even saying that *many* Finns are fascists, but what I am saying is that perhaps Finland is the *only* state that at least partly owes its ongoing independence to co-operation with the Nazis. That's why I'm not completely surprised to read about Auvinen's Nazi obsession.. it's a disturbing secret of Finnish history.

Re:Finland and the Nazis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273707)

I'm not saying that Finns are fascists, and I'm not even saying that *many* Finns are fascists, but what I am saying is that perhaps Finland is the *only* state that at least partly owes its ongoing independence to co-operation with the Nazis. That's why I'm not completely surprised to read about Auvinen's Nazi obsession..
Yeah, and that also explains why there are no people with Nazi sympathies in countries that didn't co-operate with the Nazis, like USA and Russia and so on.

Re:Finland and the Nazis (1)

gay358 (770596) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273759)

I think it is quite unlike that the alliance between Finland and nazi Germany during II world war had anything to do with this guys interests, although that shooter disliked communists (but on the other hand he said he liked Stalin). Nowadays that alliance is not much more than just part of history. Btw, one interesting detail in this alliance with nazi Germany is that also Finnish jews were fighting against Soviet union -- together with German nazi soldiers.

Re:Finland and the Nazis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273825)

Nazism is so blown out of proportion, and so 50+ years ago. Is it a threat to anyone? Only in the movies and on the horror-show-tv-news. Does anyone take it seriously? No, we all either laugh or gasp in disgust. Is it used as an excuse to conduct witch hunts? Definitely. Does nazism belong in the classroom? No more than Maoism, Communism, Imperialism, Capitalism, Z.. err.. Zwinglianism and every other freakin' -ism that, taken to its radical extreme, is nuts.

How many people have died at the hands of graffiti artists, skinheads, bikies, people with tattoos, long haird louts, etc? No more than at any other time and age.

Who's the real enemy? Some mixed up teenager who is into heavy metal and who wasn't properly looked after by his parents or society? You're much more likely to have your child killed on the battlefield or by a drunk driver, incompetent doctor, drug dealler, or by your own negligence.

Re:Finland and the Nazis (1)

gay358 (770596) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273865)

One interesting detail is that the shooter seemed to be at least somewhat contraditory in his writings. He had some nazi symphaties, but on the other hand he also said that he is against racism.

Here we go again (1)

eebra82 (907996) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273645)

Taken from CNN:

Shooting appeared to have been planned in series of YouTube videos
What is it with the mainstream media and their strange assumptions regarding technology and violence. I find it peculiar that as soon as some youngster starts shooting people for no reason, the media will investigate what video games he used to play, Facebook profiles, Youtube videos and whatnot.

No one 'plans' an assassination by uploading videos to the public. He was just trying to reach out to people with similar thoughts. The videos told a story of a guy who was greatly influenced by extreme violence inspired by x and y, but that's hardly a shout-out saying "I'm planning to kill 8 people".

I could bet a few bucks on that this guy plays violent games like Counter-Strike and that the gaming business is going to take yet another unfair punch because some retarded guy couldn't differentiate fantasy from reality.

Re:Here we go again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273671)

I don't think he had any problem differentiating fantasy from reality.

He saw reality and this is how he decided to handle it.

Re:Here we go again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273813)

The dude imagined he was an uber-human (above the rest of the human race), and considered this massacre a "revolution". That is not seeing reality, ok?

Original video (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273729)

I can't confirm this, but I think this is the original video removed from YouTube [liveleak.com] . If so, it isn't that interesting (except, perhaps, the telling title).

Re:Original video (1)

Dakkus (567781) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273837)

Yes, the monopolistic newspaper of Finland, Helsingin Sanomat, seems to agree with you. They call it "the home video by Pekka-Eric Auvinen that was removed from Youtube 2". There's also "the home video by Pekka-Eric Auvinen that was removed from Youtube 1", linking here: http://www.hs.fi/videot/1135231628338?kategoria=Uutiset&sivu=1 [www.hs.fi] . Quite a typical bring everyone to a suicide -type. The last time something similar happened it was a boy/young man in 2002, exploding himself and some 7 other people in a shopping centre in Vantaa, near Helsinki. Both this school murderer and the bomb dude were very quiet people who didn't talk very much with others and who just hid all their bad feelings inside. There's something odd about the culture here that makes it a honour not talking about your feelings. And then stuff like this happens. Okay, this killer apparently had some sort of revolution as his motive, asking others to cause chaos in the classroom by throwing around shelves and that kinda stuff before starting the shooting, but behind everything there's of course a mental problem.

This was predicted months ago by people on YouTube (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273731)

People who knew this guy on YouTube saw it coming. See http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pq56CjUA0C4 [youtube.com] which was made back in June (a few others videos were made too).

The person who made that video has since given their thoughts on the shooting: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GIKUWgsIncg [youtube.com]

The problem is OBVIOUS. (1)

Ambiguous Coward (205751) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273775)

I think the problem here is obvious: freely available online video content causes violence! What we need is anti-freely-available-online-video-content legislation. It's the only way to save our outdated ways from the children! Maybe Jack Thompson has a twin that could take up this torch?

-G

At the meetings... (1)

drxenos (573895) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273969)

"Hello, I'm Bob and I have freely available, online video content."

Hi, Bob!

Why did YouTube remove the videos? (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273847)

Did they contain copyrighted material? Were they placed there against the owner's will?

Text from his YouTube profile (before it was suspe (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21273893)

Subscribers: 120
Channel Views: 72,410
aka NaturalSelector89 (3/15/2007 - 10/19/2007).

YouTube suspended my previous account but I am back now :) My new account name is German and means "Stormspirit" in English.

http://rapidshare.com/files/68 [rapidshare.com] 015773/Pekka-Eric_Auvinen___Jo kela_High_School_Massacre.zip
Name: Pekka-Eric Auvinen
Age: 18
Male from Finland.

I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist.

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM! JUSTITIA SUUM CUIQUE DISTRIBUIT! SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!

I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.

You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am"insane", "crazy", "psychopath", "criminal" or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.

I have had enough. I don't want to be part of this fucked up society. Like some other wise people have said in the past, human race is not worth fighting for or saving... only worth killing. But... When my enemies will run and hide in fear when mentioning my name... When the gangsters of the corrupted governments have been shot in the streets... When the rule of idioracy and the democratic system has been replaced with justice... When intelligent people are finally free and rule the society instead of the idiocratic rule of majority... In that great day of deliverance, you will know what I want.

Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strong-minded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can't alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my enemies.

I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.

And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don't blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don't blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don't blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!

Justice renders to everyone his due.
Country: Finland
Occupation: Unemployed Philosopher, Outcast
Companies: Human Race (evolved one step above though)
Interests and Hobbies: Existentialism, Freedom, Truth, Misantrophy, Social / Personality Psychology, Evolution Science, Political Incorrectness, Women, BDSM, Guns (I love you Catherine), Shooting, Computer Games, Sarcasm, Irony, Mass / Serial Killers, Macabre Art, Black Comedy, Absurdism
Films and Shows: The Matrix, A View To A Kill, Falling Down, Natural Born Killers, Reservoir Dogs, Last Man Standing, Full Metal Jacket, Dr. Butcher MD (aka Zombie Holocaust), Saw 1-3, Lord Of War, The Deer Hunter, True Romance, The Untouchables, 28 Days Later, 28 Weeks Later, Idiocracy, They Live, Apocalypse Now, End Of Days, The Shining, The Dead Zone, Dr. Strangelove, House MD (TV), Monty Python, TV Documentaries Relating To History
Music: KMFDM, Rammstein, Eisbrecher, Nine Inch Nails, Grendel, Impaled Nazarene, Macabre, Deathstars, The Prodigy, Combichrist, Godsmack, Slayer, Children Of Bodom, Alice Cooper, Sturmgeist, Suicide Commando, Hatebreed, Suffocation, Terrorizer
Books: Fahrenheit 451 (Bradbury), 1984 (Orwell), Brave New World (Huxley), The Republic (Plato), all works of Nietzsche

zomg t3h hindsight (1)

netsavior (627338) | more than 6 years ago | (#21273909)

how could we have not connected the dots?!?! Oh yeah that's right, hindsight is a bit easier than foresight.
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